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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3590275 times)

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2550 on: May 12, 2015, 02:43:28 PM »
Maybe we have been going about this all wrong.If we look at a simple generator setup,we have our generating coil,and a magnetic field. Lets assume that it is just a straight inductor/generating coil,and we pass one field past one end of the coil,and the opposite field past the other end of the coil. Then at each end of the coil(upon magnets approach),an apposing magnetic field is generated-and this wants to push the approaching magnets away. Then when the magnets are leaving the coil,the magnetic field in the coil flip's,and want to draw the magnets back to it. So is there any reason that the magnetic fields from the PM cannot pass through the middle of the coil where no BEMF will be created. Dose it matter wether the magnetic fields cut from center of the conducting turns out,as apposed from the out side to center.The center of the coil/inductor would still have the neutral point,it's just that each field would get weaker as it neared the outer ends of the inductor.

Red_Sunset

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2551 on: May 12, 2015, 03:36:34 PM »
Maybe we have been going about this all wrong.If we look at a simple generator setup,we have our generating coil,and a magnetic field. Lets assume that it is just a straight inductor/generating coil,and we pass one field past one end of the coil,and the opposite field past the other end of the coil. Then at each end of the coil(upon magnets approach),an apposing magnetic field is generated-and this wants to push the approaching magnets away. Then when the magnets are leaving the coil,the magnetic field in the coil flip's,and want to draw the magnets back to it. So is there any reason that the magnetic fields from the PM cannot pass through the middle of the coil where no BEMF will be created. Dose it matter wether the magnetic fields cut from center of the conducting turns out,as apposed from the out side to center.The center of the coil/inductor would still have the neutral point,it's just that each field would get weaker as it neared the outer ends of the inductor.

Tinman,
If you see the coil as a whole (wired as one conductor ), then the coil never sees a changing field.
If you break the coil winding in the middle (2 sections), left and right, then you have the same effect as 2 coils , sure the BEMF will buck in the middle in the same way the rotor magnet field does.  I do not see any advantage on first view
Red

MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2552 on: May 12, 2015, 10:54:48 PM »
Maybe we have been going about this all wrong.If we look at a simple generator setup,we have our generating coil,and a magnetic field. Lets assume that it is just a straight inductor/generating coil,and we pass one field past one end of the coil,and the opposite field past the other end of the coil. Then at each end of the coil(upon magnets approach),an apposing magnetic field is generated-and this wants to push the approaching magnets away. Then when the magnets are leaving the coil,the magnetic field in the coil flip's,and want to draw the magnets back to it. So is there any reason that the magnetic fields from the PM cannot pass through the middle of the coil where no BEMF will be created. Dose it matter wether the magnetic fields cut from center of the conducting turns out,as apposed from the out side to center.The center of the coil/inductor would still have the neutral point,it's just that each field would get weaker as it neared the outer ends of the inductor.
Fields superimpose linearly.  So if you come up with an arrangement where you are changing one field relative to a wire that induces one way with another that induces in the opposite direction, the reduced net field change just reduces the induced EMF, and consequently the mechanical load reflected back to whatever is causing the relative motions.

To specifically answer your question:  The answer is no.  Portions of wire that are away from the changing field just act like lead wires.  You don't have to concern yourself with those until you deal with signals that change fast enough that those leads look electrically long.

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2553 on: May 13, 2015, 01:43:47 AM »

Even when you know that I would agree with most of your recent technical postings you call me a troll.  You are a psychological cluster-fuck Chris.



MileHigh, only for the way you approached this topic, trying to bring the seriousness of it down to a joke.

If you had agreed and not made it look silly then I would have also agreed.

Apologies MileHigh! Lets be serious now!

   Chris

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2554 on: May 13, 2015, 02:07:35 AM »

Maybe we have been going about this all wrong.If we look at a simple generator setup,we have our generating coil,and a magnetic field. Lets assume that it is just a straight inductor/generating coil,and we pass one field past one end of the coil,and the opposite field past the other end of the coil. Then at each end of the coil(upon magnets approach),an apposing magnetic field is generated-and this wants to push the approaching magnets away. Then when the magnets are leaving the coil,the magnetic field in the coil flip's,and want to draw the magnets back to it. So is there any reason that the magnetic fields from the PM cannot pass through the middle of the coil where no BEMF will be created. Dose it matter wether the magnetic fields cut from center of the conducting turns out,as apposed from the out side to center.The center of the coil/inductor would still have the neutral point,it's just that each field would get weaker as it neared the outer ends of the inductor.


Tinman, keep asking questions... This is excellent!

Induction is considered to come in two forms. Flux Cutting (EMF = Bvl) and Flux Linking (EMF = - dPhi/dt)

These terms are not entirely correct. They are accurate to a point but do not complete the Solution for Induction. Red pointed part of the Solution out.

SOLUTION:
   1: Take one loop of a Inductor.
   2: Put an Imaginary line through the middle, separating the loop in exactly half. Preferably through the shortest length, not the longest.
   3: In this solution, the total Flux Cutting the loop, one Half of the Loop MUST have a difference in Density to the other half, or a difference in polarity in the Flux on one half of the Loop. So, in other words, if the Total flux Cutting the Loop is Uniform and of the same density, cutting the Loop, NO EMF will be "Generated" - There will be NO Separation of Charges.

The same is true for Flux Linking, the Inductor must see a change in Flux Linking, preferable of half the Windings relative to the other. This example is more complicated to explain. However, imagine a Transformer, Input Coil changes in Time its density, pushing the Core through Hysteresis. The Electric Field Vector changes, the Secondary Coil sees an Electric Field Boundary Change, this cuts the turns in time. An Audible representation of this can be heard here: MIT Physics Demo - Barkhausen Effect

I see that this explanation will be doubted and even disputed, but it is true if one reads the words and puts the meanings together...

In the first post I posted, I included this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcGWO_x8tpM

It clearly shows what I have said, and experiments can also prove what I've said is true.

So, in other words, what I am trying to explain, is that Inductors must see a change in Electric/Magnetic Fields (Depending on the Induction Type) and to maximise this change, there is a Ideal solution to maximise the Output, E.G: Half of the inductor's must see a difference in the applied field. Which is not shown in either equations above...

   Chris

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2555 on: May 13, 2015, 02:23:48 AM »

The inductance of a Coil!!! This topic is very poorly understood by so many.

An Inductor has Inductance.
The Inductance changes with the change in Magnetic Field.
The Inductance does not move to Zero if the Core is Saturated! There is still an Inductance present!

This is called Differential Inductance!

Some work I have done to show this is here: http://www.hyiq.org/Updates/Update?Name=Update%2017-12-13

   Chris

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2556 on: May 13, 2015, 02:27:36 AM »
Ok, who is voting False - Lets discuss why you think this is False...

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2557 on: May 13, 2015, 02:45:37 PM »
Tinman,
If you see the coil as a whole (wired as one conductor ), then the coil never sees a changing field.
If you break the coil winding in the middle (2 sections), left and right, then you have the same effect as 2 coils , sure the BEMF will buck in the middle in the same way the rotor magnet field does.  I do not see any advantage on first view
Red
Ah yes,but what if the inductor core is a toroid,where all the magnetic field remains within the toroid core it self.

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2558 on: May 13, 2015, 02:57:25 PM »
Fields superimpose linearly.  So if you come up with an arrangement where you are changing one field relative to a wire that induces one way with another that induces in the opposite direction, the reduced net field change just reduces the induced EMF, and consequently the mechanical load reflected back to whatever is causing the relative motions.

To specifically answer your question:  The answer is no.  Portions of wire that are away from the changing field just act like lead wires.  You don't have to concern yourself with those until you deal with signals that change fast enough that those leads look electrically long.
But what if the core is a toroid?,where the magnetic field is suppose to remain within the toroid core it self. If two coils are wound on the toroid core,so as one coil is wound on 1/2 of the core,and the second is wound on the other 1/2 of the core,and a small gap left between each end of the winding's. A diametrically magnetised magnet is then spun near the core at the center of one of the coils. One side of the coil see's a north field,and the other side a south field(and no correcting here MH,we are using understood descriptions only). The center of the coil will see the the neutral zone of the field as well. Now what happens when we load both coils?,do we get a bucking field between the two coil end's,and is the BEMF directed back toward the rotating magnet,or dose it remain in the core?. If it dosnt remain within the core,then we have a south,and north field that meet in the middle of the coil winding-->which means a neutral field. So what will be acting against the rotating magnet?.

Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2559 on: May 13, 2015, 03:59:07 PM »
How would you create a low pressure zone in the atmosphere using coils.
No pulsing straight dc

MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2560 on: May 13, 2015, 05:54:50 PM »
But what if the core is a toroid?,where the magnetic field is suppose to remain within the toroid core it self. If two coils are wound on the toroid core,so as one coil is wound on 1/2 of the core,and the second is wound on the other 1/2 of the core,and a small gap left between each end of the winding's. A diametrically magnetised magnet is then spun near the core at the center of one of the coils. One side of the coil see's a north field,and the other side a south field(and no correcting here MH,we are using understood descriptions only). The center of the coil will see the the neutral zone of the field as well. Now what happens when we load both coils?,do we get a bucking field between the two coil end's,and is the BEMF directed back toward the rotating magnet,or dose it remain in the core?. If it dosnt remain within the core,then we have a south,and north field that meet in the middle of the coil winding-->which means a neutral field. So what will be acting against the rotating magnet?.

Well, I strongly suggest that you make a diagram or diagrams, because I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about.  I suspect that others would be in the same boat as me.  You are back in your thinking bubble and you have to realize that we are not in your bubble.  For example, what the hell does "near" mean?  For me it could mean you are inside the toroid, or perhaps outside the toroid, or even on top of the toroid.   You need to make a diagram that is clear, and then annotate that diagram to show what you are talking about.

This is just like when beginners talk about electronic circuits in pure text.  In the vast majority of cases they are just BSing each other and chances are both parties haven't the foggiest idea what the other guy is saying, and yet they agree with each other.

MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2561 on: May 13, 2015, 05:55:20 PM »
How would you create a low pressure zone in the atmosphere using coils.
No pulsing straight dc

Your statement is utter nonsense.

Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2562 on: May 13, 2015, 07:13:31 PM »
Your statement is utter nonsense.
lol maybe some day I'll show ya
maybe not

MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2563 on: May 13, 2015, 08:30:27 PM »
lol maybe some day I'll show ya
maybe not

lol  Why don't you show us right now.

a.king21

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2564 on: May 13, 2015, 09:35:13 PM »