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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2375295 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2535 on: May 11, 2015, 08:21:01 AM »
Don't confuse the situation, there is only one point I wanted to make, as stated: "Saturation in Multiple Axis at the same time"
Conventional science treats the magnetization as a vector, which is a 1D magnitude that can have only one direction.
A sum of multiple vectors is still a vector.

Geometric Algebra allows for multidimentional vectors such as bivectors, trivectors and various grades of blades, but I don't know how to apply these concepts to magnetization and saturation of magnetization.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2535 on: May 11, 2015, 08:21:01 AM »

Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2536 on: May 11, 2015, 08:26:43 AM »
I cannot participate in the most recent poll because the question assumes that "Current draw is a changing Magnetic Field in Time" which does not make sense to me.

Also, most people think of the Lenz's Law as a qualitative law which answers the question "how" but not "how much".

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2537 on: May 11, 2015, 09:18:40 AM »
Bought forth superbly!


Conventional science treats the magnetization as a vector


A Vector: Ref: Vector

Quote

noun 
1. Mathematics. 
a. a quantity possessing both magnitude and direction, represented by an arrow the direction of which indicates the direction of the quantity and the length of which is proportional to the magnitude.
Compare scalar (def 4).
b. such a quantity with the additional requirement that such quantities obey the parallelogram law of addition.
c. such a quantity with the additional requirement that such quantities are to transform in a particular way under changes of the coordinate system.
d. any generalization of the above quantities.

2. the direction or course followed by an airplane, missile, or the like.

3. Biology.  a.an insect or other organism that transmits a pathogenic fungus, virus, bacterium, etc.
b. any agent that acts as a carrier or transporter, as a virus or plasmid that conveys a genetically engineered DNA segment into a host cell.

4. Computers. an array of data ordered such that individual items can be located with a single index or subscript.

verb (used with object) 
5. Aeronautics. to guide (an aircraft) in flight by issuing appropriate headings.

6. Aerospace. to change direction of (the thrust of a jet or rocket engine) in order to steer the craft.

Quote

Origin of vector  Expand 
1695-1705; < Latin: one that conveys, equivalent to vec-, variant stem of vehere to carry + -tor  -tor



So, to view Magnetics more accurately, one could consider that Conventional Science treats the Direction of Magnetization as a Vector, but as the Magnitude can change with no change to the Direction, it is actually inaccurate to view a Vector with Magnitude at the same time! The Inverse Square Law shows, in the equation and in experiment the Direction and Magnitude change totally independently as a square of the distance!


... which is a 1D magnitude that can have only one direction.
A sum of multiple vectors is still a vector.



Ideally, A Vector has Direction. A Scalar has Magnitude(what definition of Magnitude would one like to use here?(1. size; extent; dimensions)), and the Magnitude can be described as having Direction by the Vector, so I am not sure I agree entirely here. Words that no doubt mean the same things but just are contextual maybe?

A Scalar: Ref: scalar

Quote

adjective 
1. representable by position on a scale or line; having only magnitude:
a scalar variable.

2. of, relating to, or utilizing a scalar.

3. ladderlike in arrangement or organization; graduated:
a scalar structure for promoting personnel.

noun 
4. Mathematics, Physics. a quantity possessing only magnitude.
Compare vector (def 1a).

Quote

Origin of scalar
1650-60; < Latin  scālāris of a ladder. See scale3, -ar1





Geometric Algebra allows for multidimentional vectors such as bivectors, trivectors and various grades of blades, but I don't know how to apply these concepts to magnetization and saturation of magnetization.


Yes, A Magnitude and the Vector of it can have Algebraic operators applied to them to solve for a total Vector. Here I see a massive problem however! Why would one want to add or subtract Vector's that are in-fact not directionally related? E.G: Are not related to each other by a Directional Vector. If one vector is Orthogonal to the other but not in the same space, why apply Algebraic operators for a sum Total. This can be dependant entirely on the context again! Re the patent then one may want to apply some sort of Vector Analysys here, but the entire point of me bringing forth this patent is to show that a Magnetisable direction can exist in the same space at the same time.

In all "Conventional Energy Generation" or Induction, a Change in time is necessary, as we know, its part of the equations and also a necessary requirement to Invoke an EMF... This we already know, so the term "EMF" implies a time rate of change without having to specify it.

Nice smart chat Verpies, enjoyed it.

   Chris

Image: Is this Magnetism

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2537 on: May 11, 2015, 09:18:40 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2538 on: May 11, 2015, 09:50:00 AM »
@Verpies,

Mathematically, a 3D Vector can be written like so: [1 2 3] so, [1 in the x direction, 2 in the y direction, 3 in the z direction] if one uses the general Cartesian Coordinate System

So:

[1 2 3] + [-1 -2 -3] = 0

Here we see we have no Magnitude, only Direction. We also see our vector sum is Zero. This is of course not specifying weather a Bound Vector is necessary.

Mathematically, Magnitude, yes, but Magnetically Magnitude? I don't agree with this. I don't agree that this describes Magnetism accurately.

Why: A Magnitude: magnitude

Quote

noun 
1. size; extent; dimensions:
to determine the magnitude of an angle.

2. great importance or consequence:
affairs of magnitude.

3. greatness of size or amount.

4. moral greatness:
magnitude of mind.

5. Astronomy.  a.Also called visual magnitude, apparent magnitude. the brightness of a star or other celestial body as viewed by the unaided eye and expressed by a mathematical ratio of 2.512: a star of the first magnitude is approximately 2½ times as bright as one of the second magnitude and 100 times brighter than one of the sixth magnitude. Only stars of the sixth magnitude or brighter can be seen with the unaided eye.
b. absolute magnitude.

6. Mathematics. a number characteristic of a quantity and forming a basis for comparison with similar quantities, as length.


To sum up: The Length(Magnitude) of a Vector, for me, does not quantify Magnetism. Does a Vector quantify a Tornado, or a River, I am not satisfied with such a presumption. Conventional Science has to many presumption's.

   Chris

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2539 on: May 11, 2015, 10:02:15 AM »
PPS: An "Electric Generator" can generate an "EMF" but if there is no Load, EG: No Current draw from the Terminals, then Lenz's Law, the associated Magnetic Field, will not be present. Result: No Drag on the "Generator" Shaft due to Lenz's Law. Friction Losses will still be present but currently we are not considering those. A Voltage will still be present on the terminals.

A Load is necessary to experiment with this concept.

PPPS: lots of Editing, sorry, trying to carefully choose words...

   Chris

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2539 on: May 11, 2015, 10:02:15 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2540 on: May 11, 2015, 04:56:59 PM »
PPS: An "Electric Generator" can generate an "EMF" but if there is no Load, EG: No Current draw from the Terminals, then Lenz's Law, the associated Magnetic Field, will not be present. Result: No Drag on the "Generator" Shaft due to Lenz's Law.
I understand what you mean, but as a rigorous participant in the poll I cannot answer it as it is stated.  There is a big difference between stating that time varying magnetic field causes current flow and that electric current is a time varying magnetic field.

A coil/winding without a current flowing behaves as if it did not exist at all.  That's why I prefer to analyze inductors in the current domain and capacitors in the electric domain.
Inductors/coils are inherently current devices and their energy content and reactions can be analyzed without invoking the notion of the EMF at all, but if you are really attached to that concept then its not an error.

P.S.
Please don't confuse the 3 degrees of freedom of a vector in 3D space with a true 3D object such as the trivector.
Also don't confuse a scalar with a pseudoscalar such as the 3D motion of an inflating balloon in 3D space which is "directionless" magnitude only in the sense that it has no preferred direction through the exhaustion of all available dimensions of the containing space.

Offline forest

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2541 on: May 11, 2015, 09:50:25 PM »
What do you think about such experiment : a transformer having primary connected to the alternating current generator and a secondary having a very long output wires , more then 100km but precisely measured. On the secondary ends there is a voltmeter and on each leg near the terminal ends there are precise Hall sensors. The input is synchronized in time with output so at exact moment input is turned on and output can be measured. There is no current flow in secondary. Question : will the halla sensor detect magnetic field present a the transient moment of switching input power around the secondary wires ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2541 on: May 11, 2015, 09:50:25 PM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2542 on: May 11, 2015, 11:00:58 PM »
I understand what you mean, but as a rigorous participant in the poll I cannot answer it as it is stated.  There is a big difference between stating that time varying magnetic field causes current flow and that electric current is a time varying magnetic field.

A coil/winding without a current flowing behaves as if it did not exist at all.  That's why I prefer to analyze inductors in the current domain and capacitors in the electric domain.
Inductors/coils are inherently current devices and their energy content and reactions can be analyzed without invoking the notion of the EMF at all, but if you are really attached to that concept then its not an error.

P.S.
Please don't confuse the 3 degrees of freedom of a vector in 3D space with a true 3D object such as the trivector.
Also don't confuse a scalar with a pseudoscalar such as the 3D motion of an inflating balloon in 3D space which is "directionless" magnitude only in the sense that it has no preferred direction through the exhaustion of all available dimensions of the containing space.

Finally, someone that knows what he is talking about! Verpies, I agree.

Magnetic Fields are Current - The two are the same! If you read between the lines that is!
Electric Field is Voltage - I don't need to explain here!

Good, productive chat, others need to read this man's words and take notes!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2543 on: May 11, 2015, 11:48:55 PM »
What do you think about such experiment : a transformer having primary connected to the alternating current generator and a secondary having a very long output wires , more then 100km but precisely measured. On the secondary ends there is a voltmeter and on each leg near the terminal ends there are precise Hall sensors. The input is synchronized in time with output so at exact moment input is turned on and output can be measured. There is no current flow in secondary. Question : will the halla sensor detect magnetic field present a the transient moment of switching input power around the secondary wires ?
Oh, but you will see a flow in the secondary for at least 600us.  You have entered the land of transmission line theory.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2543 on: May 11, 2015, 11:48:55 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2544 on: May 12, 2015, 02:39:44 AM »
Quote
Magnetic Fields are Current - The two are the same! If you read between the lines that is!
Electric Field is Voltage - I don't need to explain here!
interesting

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2545 on: May 12, 2015, 05:44:31 AM »
Time to cash-in some LOLs here.

Divine Secrets of the Yo-Yo Brotherhood:

Quote
Magnetic Fields are Current - The two are the same! If you read between the lines that is!
Electric Field is Voltage - I don't need to explain here!

LOL

Quote
interesting

LOLOL

Bonus round:

Quote
Current draw of an EMF in a Conductor

lol

Mr. Inguneeur sez, "Beware of stampeding glaciers."

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2545 on: May 12, 2015, 05:44:31 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2546 on: May 12, 2015, 09:43:00 AM »
Time to cash-in some LOLs here.

Divine Secrets of the Yo-Yo Brotherhood:

LOL

LOLOL

Bonus round:

lol

Mr. Inguneeur sez, "Beware of stampeding glaciers."

True to your Troll Title MileHigh - No Secret there old Mate - nearly all equations related to inductors are dependant on I, the Current... Not a Yo Yo Secret if that's what you're implying.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2547 on: May 12, 2015, 09:48:23 AM »
Another one, Ampere Turns:

F = NI
F = magnetomotive force in ampere-turns
N = number of turns
I = current in amperes

Again no secret Yo Yo Bro!

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2548 on: May 12, 2015, 09:51:08 AM »
Oh yes and one we should not forget,

V = L dI/dt
Where:
I = Current....

You're the funniest Troll around MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2549 on: May 12, 2015, 10:38:32 AM »
Even when you know that I would agree with most of your recent technical postings you call me a troll.  You are a psychological cluster-fuck Chris.

 

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