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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2378789 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2520 on: May 10, 2015, 03:20:51 AM »
MH says they dont count lol
but when freezing coils I found that without a core the A vector field ran outside the coil but if a ferrous core was added the field pulls in around the core.
Dave to have valid experiments you need to have a control that is identical but for the variable under test.  So, if you are going to freeze an energized ferromagnetic core, also freeze a an identical unenergized core.  Then repeat the experiment, switching which core you power.

If you are testing pwoered cores where one is ferrous and one is not then the one that is ferrous will have a much higher flux concentration than the non-ferrous core.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2520 on: May 10, 2015, 03:20:51 AM »

Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2521 on: May 10, 2015, 03:53:34 AM »
Yes I have done both
Without a core the field is on the outside
With core the field is absent so I assume its pulled in close to the core.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2522 on: May 10, 2015, 04:52:28 AM »
Yes I have done both
Without a core the field is on the outside
With core the field is absent so I assume its pulled in close to the core.
For a multiple layer winding that reverses at each end there will be almost no leakage flux outside the toroid core.

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2522 on: May 10, 2015, 04:52:28 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2523 on: May 10, 2015, 05:53:55 AM »
For a multiple layer winding that reverses at each end there will be almost no leakage flux outside the toroid core.

Well, I dont know if we can call it leakage, but there is flux in the hole of the toroid core when the current is building and when the current dissipates in the winding of the toroid core.  Run a single wire through the center of the core and that wire will be induced by fluctuating field changes due to input of the toroid cores winding.

Also there would be further leakage if the core gets saturated. ;)

Mags


Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2524 on: May 10, 2015, 05:58:53 AM »
For a multiple layer winding that reverses at each end there will be almost no leakage flux outside the toroid core.
Most of my experiments were done with a solenoid type coil, although I have used a toroidal winding as well but not with a core.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2524 on: May 10, 2015, 05:58:53 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2525 on: May 10, 2015, 06:41:15 AM »
Well, I dont know if we can call it leakage, but there is flux in the hole of the toroid core when the current is building and when the current dissipates in the winding of the toroid core.  Run a single wire through the center of the core and that wire will be induced by fluctuating field changes due to input of the toroid cores winding.

Also there would be further leakage if the core gets saturated. ;)

Mags
True enough, saturated cores look pretty much like air.

Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2526 on: May 10, 2015, 03:39:23 PM »
Normal cores have been done to death we have to look elsewhere.
The highest concentration of flux is in the core but if overpowered eddy currents heat the core.

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2526 on: May 10, 2015, 03:39:23 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2527 on: May 10, 2015, 03:57:04 PM »
Magnetic - Electric

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2528 on: May 10, 2015, 07:11:25 PM »
Normal cores have been done to death we have to look elsewhere.
The highest concentration of flux is in the core but if overpowered eddy currents heat the core.
Eddy current heating is a function of the rate of change in field and the resistance in the induction path.  Once a core is saturated there is little opportunity to change the field.  Inductance drops like a rock and it becomes very easy to drive large resistive losses in the windings.  Eddy current losses are maximized by driving back and forth just short of saturation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2528 on: May 10, 2015, 07:11:25 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2529 on: May 10, 2015, 07:57:00 PM »
Eddy current heating is a function of the rate of change in field and the resistance in the induction path.  Once a core is saturated there is little opportunity to change the field.  Inductance drops like a rock and it becomes very easy to drive large resistive losses in the windings.  Eddy current losses are maximized by driving back and forth just short of saturation.

Would a sponge be a good example of this?  You pour water onto the sponge (power) the sponge absorbs all of the water until it is saturated, then, the additional water simply runs off of the sponge.  If you stopped adding the water at the saturation point, then squeezing the sponge will give you back most of the water you have added.  If you went beyond the saturation point, you will never recover the water that has run off.

Bill

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2530 on: May 10, 2015, 08:07:16 PM »
Would a sponge be a good example of this?  You pour water onto the sponge (power) the sponge absorbs all of the water until it is saturated, then, the additional water simply runs off of the sponge.  If you stopped adding the water at the saturation point, then squeezing the sponge will give you back most of the water you have added.  If you went beyond the saturation point, you will never recover the water that has run off.

Bill
Sort of yes, if you consider flux your water.  I prefer a trough cut into a sloping surface analogy.  Fluid (flux) collects in the trough (soft magnetic material) preferentially until the trough overflows (saturates) and then additional fluid moves as though the trough is not there.  IE, additional flux does not concentrate preferentially in the "saturated" trough. 

Eddy currents make a simple mechanical analogyare a bit tougher to create.  Eddy currents create losses in the material, so we never have an opportunity to squeeze the sponge and get some energy back out.  Eddy currents are phenomena that in a magnetic system act like friction does in a mechanical system.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2530 on: May 10, 2015, 08:07:16 PM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2531 on: May 10, 2015, 11:50:05 PM »

Saturation in Multiple Axis at the same time: INDUCTIVE DEVICE HAVING
ORTHOGONAL WINDINGS


One needs to think about Magnetisation and Saturation openly and not be confined to restrictive concepts and methods!

   Chris

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2532 on: May 11, 2015, 02:21:46 AM »
Saturation in Multiple Axis at the same time: INDUCTIVE DEVICE HAVING
ORTHOGONAL WINDINGS


One needs to think about Magnetisation and Saturation openly and not be confined to restrictive concepts and methods!

   Chris
If you want to see interesting off angle saturation effects study TK's Orbette videos. 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2533 on: May 11, 2015, 02:45:57 AM »
Saturation in Multiple Axis at the same time: INDUCTIVE DEVICE HAVING
ORTHOGONAL WINDINGS


One needs to think about Magnetisation and Saturation openly and not be confined to restrictive concepts and methods!

   Chris

I took a quick look at that patent.  I am not sure if there is any real value there.  However, there are no "restrictive concepts."  The fundamental rules of the game will not change in some sort of "orthogonal winding" transformer.  The basic rules will apply and still will apply here.

It's almost like the silly debates about "reactive power" and people making pitches like "my device makes use of reactive power, which is an untapped source of power ignored by mainstream science and the utility companies."  Think the "COP 20" device, Bill Alek, Thane Heins, and I am sure there are dozens if not hundreds more.

Forget "out of the box" "orthogonal windings" and "reactive power" and you may as well throw in "displacement current" while you are doing some mental housekeeping.  These things are all just smokescreens trying to mask the simple truths about induction and current flow in search of a "magic workaround" to give you free energy.  You are either looking at "alternative thinkers" that feel some sort of compulsion to ignore the basic facts and spin big fish tales or you are looking at criminals.

Chris, you need to learn the basics and then apply your knowledge.  Avoid the urge to fall for every Joe Blow's pitch where the claim is they have something new when it comes to magnetic induction.  You need to develop the skill set to filter out the crap.

A more recent example was on this thread.  Without looking at any numbers or measurements I can state the following with quite a high degree of confidence:  There is an effect where by beaming sound at a mechanical resonant frequency into a piece of ferrite you can measure voltage in a coil wrapped around the ferrite.  Now that might attract a small crowd of free energy researchers to see if thee is a new and untapped potential source of free energy just waiting to be discovered.  That's pure crap.  Chances are if you pumped 20 watts into a big piezoelectric driver into a ferrite core, you could extract about three milliwatts of power from the winding around that core.  It's an effect that has no practical application for power generation at all.

We all want "free energy."  The truth is that it is happening as we speak.  We are probably not too far off from the world's annual consumption of oil starting a long downward trend as renewables and many other creative ideas start to take hold.  How far are we away from the day where the solar panels on the roof of your home are used to "fill up" your electric car for its daily energy requirement?  Probably not too far away.

MileHigh

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2534 on: May 11, 2015, 06:57:30 AM »
MileHigh,

Don't confuse the situation, there is only one point I wanted to make, as stated: "Saturation in Multiple Axis at the same time"

All other concepts in this patent, are interesting, but not related, to the points I have made. Energy Pumping is done exactly how I have said. It hasn't changed sine I last explained...

Energy Generation is not the point of this patent.

New Vote, Vote as you wish.

MileHigh, you faired well, of the now six trolls, one other Vote in your favour.


 

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