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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3006569 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2250 on: May 04, 2015, 02:45:22 AM »
Enjoykin:

You have a bench power supply and the output is 12 volts.   You have a coil sitting on your bench.  When you first make the connection between the power supply and the coil, the time when you fist make contact, what happens?

When you first make the connection to the coil at zero seconds, what happens?  I am only interested in what happens at zero seconds.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2251 on: May 04, 2015, 02:50:35 AM »

I must admit, I did used to think that MarkE and MileHigh were smarter than this!

Whats going on guys? Loosing Guru and gaining a new Badge of Honour?

Well you are contradicting yourself because in your little rant you basically admitted that MarkE knows his stuff and you don't know how to solve this circuit.

Your best course of action would be to make a 180-dregree about face and switch from hostile to cooperative and work with your peers on how to solve this circuit.  You would all lean some very good basics that you can apply elsewhere.

Offline Enjoykin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2252 on: May 04, 2015, 02:56:15 AM »

I must admit, I did used to think that MarkE and MileHigh were smarter than this!

Whats going on guys? Loosing Guru and gaining a new Badge of Honour?

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

PERFECT CHRIS !!  NICE !!

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2253 on: May 04, 2015, 03:48:22 AM »
Enjoykin:

You have a bench power supply and the output is 12 volts.   You have a coil sitting on your bench.  When you first make the connection between the power supply and the coil, the time when you fist make contact, what happens?

When you first make the connection to the coil at zero seconds, what happens?  I am only interested in what happens at zero seconds.

MileHigh

Well thought-out MileHigh - Certainly much better than the last one! Ok. lets bring about some definitions:

    1: Current Source: 12 volts
    2: At time = 0 the Inductor is Disconnected from the Current Source.
    3: At time = 1 the Inductor is connected to the Current Source.

Please describe what Happens in the circuit shown Below:

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2254 on: May 04, 2015, 04:04:37 AM »

Well thought-out MileHigh - Certainly much better than the last one! Ok. lets bring about some definitions:

    1: Current Source: 12 volts
    2: At time = 0 the Inductor is Disconnected from the Current Source.
    3: At time = 1 the Inductor is connected to the Current Source.

Please describe what Happens in the circuit shown Below:


Ok, so Questions beg:

    1: Coil Inductance is not defined - May not be a requirement for the NEW Question.
    2: No Frequency of Switching is defined other than a single Disconnection and then a single Connection! Rise Times and so on...
    3: No Measurement equipment is specified.
    4: No requirement on what is defined by the term "What"...

So do we have another situation like before? Seems so!!!

Can we bring about assumptions and approximations in regards to the term "What" - Well, yes we can.
    1: The Earth Keeps revolving....
    2: A Voltage is applied across the terminals of the Coil...
    3: As a result of the fore mentioned Voltage being applied, a Current will start to flow and increase in time until the maximum current is reached.
    4: The Coil will start to heat as a result of Losses.
    5: The Current Source will see a Changing Impedance in the Now connected Circuit


Well, it seems we have done a pretty good job at giving an approximation of what could be defined by the term: "What" - Certainly this is much better than MarkE's Utterly Brilliant attempt: "? ? ?"

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2255 on: May 04, 2015, 05:04:36 AM »


Others may find this chat useful, certainly not the way its been bought forth currently. Like I have stated before, I am not an expert in the Electronics field, I know my way around and get by. If there is something I need, then I learn it.... So, to be straight up here, others do know much more than myself in this field.

Inductors:
    1: Once a Voltage is applied to an Inductor from a Current Source, a Current will start to flow.
    2: There is a Time Constant associated with the Inductor: T = L/R
    3: After five (5) Time Constants the Inductor is charged to 99.8, some text books is 99.3% of the Current Carrying Capacity. This can be seen like so:

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2256 on: May 04, 2015, 05:19:11 AM »
The sense resistor is an impedance in the Circuit also and is not an ideal method to measure the current. However, its a start and good to know about for rough estimates... Mostly fairly accurate as long a low resistance is selected.

The Current can be calculated by Ohms Law. In the above case: I = E / R = 5.6 / 0.1 = 56 Amps

In the above Circuit, the total input Voltage is 12v * 56a = 672Watts dissipated in the circuit. 313.6 Watts in the Sense Resistor alone.

NOTE: This includes the 0.1 Ohm Resistor as a load.

Circuit resistance, calculated is: 0.21 Ohms - 0.1 = 0.11 = The Inductor Resistance.

    Time Constant: 4.545
    Coil Inductive Reactance: 0.691
    Amps after one Time Constant: 17.366
    CPS: 1.10

You can see the full Cycle in the above Graph is much longer: nearly 9 seconds for full charge. Now I must stress. I am not an expert, I am merely sharing some data and figures. Some calculations may not be right, I have not double checked. So please do not hold me square to this data. Its just information so others can see there is a bit to this stuff.

   Chris
 


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2257 on: May 04, 2015, 05:26:05 AM »
Chris:

Look at the time constant in the graph.  What is that telling you?

Your treatise on the L/R time constant is essentially right but as per my comment above there is a monkey wrench messing with the numbers.

So, can you take a crack at this:

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2258 on: May 04, 2015, 05:32:29 AM »
Chris:

Look at the time constant in the graph.  What is that telling you?

Your treatise on the L/R time constant is essentially right but as per my comment above there is a monkey wrench messing with the numbers.

So, can you take a crack at this:

Ummm, the extra 1H of inductance that is switched into the circuit at Fett Off, 2H dump into 1H, + impedance change on the Source, Yes I see it... I have seen it right from d.1

Yup.... Its a monkey wrench alright.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2259 on: May 04, 2015, 05:35:17 AM »
Ummm, the extra 1H of inductance that is switched into the circuit at Fett Off, 2H dump into 1H, + impedance change on the Source, Yes I see it... I have seen it right from d.1

Yup.... Its a monkey wrench alright.

How about you mark up the graph and be a little more descriptive?

The time constant in the graph is about five seconds.  So let's just assume it's five seconds because it's difficult to judge by eye.  Go back and look at your posting and work it out.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2260 on: May 04, 2015, 05:39:37 AM »
How about you mark up the graph and be a little more descriptive.

The time constant in the graph is about five seconds.  So let's just assume it's five seconds because it's difficult to judge by eye.  Go back and look at your posting and work it out.

Calculated: Time Constant: 4.545

Graph is a detailed as it gets, unless you want a mspaint doodle as well?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2261 on: May 04, 2015, 05:51:34 AM »
If the circuit resistance is 0.21 ohms then L/R = 2.33 seconds - and that doesn't jive with the graph.

The real issue is the resistance of the inductor.  It's a CAD circuit simulator?  I am making the assumption that the resistance of the inductor is zero, and then you get a five second time constant, and then the voltage scale of the graph is wrong.   However, there could be a resistance for the coil that is not being shown.

In reality you should be stating the resistance of the coil,whether it be zero ohms or some other value.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2262 on: May 04, 2015, 06:03:32 AM »
If the circuit resistance is 0.21 ohms then L/R = 2.33 seconds - and that doesn't jive with the graph.

The real issue is the resistance of the inductor.  It's a CAD circuit simulator?  I am making the assumption that the resistance of the inductor is zero, and then you get a five second time constant, and then the voltage scale of the graph is wrong.   However, there could be a resistance for the coil that is not being shown.

In reality you should be stating the resistance of the coil,whether it be zero ohms or some other value.

Umm - Yep done:



Circuit resistance, calculated is: 0.21 Ohms - 0.1 = 0.11 = The Inductor Resistance.


Did you read my post?

I know MileHigh, its late there!!!


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2263 on: May 04, 2015, 06:13:29 AM »
Anyway, it's not critical.  The main point being that the "R" is the resistance of the total circuit path.  Trying to eyeball a graph where there are five subdivisions spanning four volts is a pain.

So moving on, can you tackle the real circuit?  That means drawing the voltage and current waveforms and explaining them comprehensively and clearly so that people can understand you.

Offline Enjoykin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2264 on: May 04, 2015, 07:08:18 AM »
MH time is ticking......  ;D  ;D ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D