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Author Topic: Dynamic spiral motor animation.  (Read 27837 times)

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« on: September 22, 2006, 08:02:20 PM »
Just an idea I had...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« on: September 22, 2006, 08:02:20 PM »

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2006, 09:01:28 PM »
So the question is:

If the two rotor magnets are forced clockwise (like in a spiral motor)
and the stator magnets are forced outward adding friction (load)
to the outer wheel but not counterclockwise force, would this device
(if properly balanced and tested) be a possible PMM?

Would the friction/load be greater then the force created by the stator
magnet trying to find the cog point???

I have about 20 animations of magnetic motor concepts like this...
I'm just putting them out there for others to comment on...

Heres a spiral motor (for those who dont know what I mean by spiral motor)
with a electromagnet to overcome the cog point. Also based on a principle
I've observed which is that two large cylinder magnets can easiley face each
other in oppisition if there is a smaller cylinder magnet placed veticaly
between them in attraction, so I assume in this animation that watts required
to accomplish this configuration is less then the watts required to negate a
magnets field.

Offline Gregory

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 10:38:26 PM »
Hello Dingus,

The first one is Very good! You're a thought reader, don't you? ;)

I also had this idea some months before. Through my short "research" about all magnet motors, I've got a conclusion, that only designs with all of the magnets in some kind of motion will possibly work.
Your animation looks very promising. It's a must try. Unfortunately I don't have the tools and equipments to make something like this... :(

If the force produced by the magnets is enough to move the weight of all the pieces together and all the mechanisms, than probably it will work. But needed to look carefully for the best configuration, with different viewpoints included, like mass, force, number of magnets, lenght to the cog point, how the rotor and the stator pieces move in time and in connection to each other, (maybe alteration needed) etc,
Have to choose very carefully. For first, perhaps it's better to try with less magnets, and perform some pre-experiments first to see what happens.

After all, the most important question remains the same: Is it possible to develop enough force to move the whole thing?

When the answer will turn to yes, you have got it. :)

Best Regards,
Gregory

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 10:38:26 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2006, 12:48:39 AM »
Hi,
the second animation:
spiralmotordemo.gif

is exactly the way the Paul Sprain motor works.

Search for
Sprain
in the search box and you will find it.
This method works !

Offline morpheous1777

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 08:56:42 AM »
sprain motor
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor

just looking at mim-lrg.gif and i was just wondering couldn't you use the same kick out ring (or slightly modified version) on the torbay device and get rid of the kick up and just kick it out, is it using the same principle as torbay ??

Ive got torbay on my brain (just read that 100+ topic about it) i could be wrong, but its just a thought  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 08:56:42 AM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2006, 11:45:23 AM »
Hi Dingus,

About the belt-type idea... In my opinion it's not the same as the others, principally different, and I don't like it too much. Mechanics plays a role in these things, and mechanically & phisically this belt thing works very different, results with different forces.

I've tested some devices, and they used similar principles (more vs. less, etc.), in fact they didn't work.
From my little experience I think this belt-type thing won't work.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I wanted to tell my observation for you.

Good luck for your experiments!

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 03:58:22 PM »
Hi,
the second animation:
spiralmotordemo.gif

is exactly the way the Paul Sprain motor works.

Search for
Sprain
in the search box and you will find it.
This method works !

(http://peswiki.com/images/c/cd/Kawaii_spiral_hj85.jpg)
Actually the "sprain motor" has its stator magnetics working in a attraction state (runs oppisite of the my example) and therefore can not take advantage of the configuration I used. I'm excited to hear the spain motor has achieved overunity. Has there been any attemps to close the loop yet? If we look at history many major discoveries in technology were achieved in seval places within a couple decades of each other. I honestly believe that overunity is in that phase now.  ;D The inspiration behind my design was the work of Dr Minato.

As for the mim's (Magnetic Instability Motor) similarities to the torbay motor, I dont fully grasp how the torbay motors armature magnets are configured yet but I do know it uses a escapement channel for the stators like my design, allowing a stator magnets to escape the flux ring vertically rather then outward. I will do some more research on torbays motor this week.

But I must repeat that my design of the spiral motor is very different in two respects, the stator magnets of my design are in repultion mode and the EM used in my design uses 1/2 the power. The EM in the sprain design must be equal in power to each of the stator magnets or the armature magent would have no desire to pass the sticky point. Those of you with magnet collections, expirement with 3 magnets, 2 large cylinders and one smaller magnet of any geometry. You can get the two large magnets to face each other in repultion by placing the smaller magnet in attraction between them. With this in mind a EM field could be used in the same method. I'm excited to get all the great replies and look forward to further discussing much more about magnetic motors with all of you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2006, 03:58:22 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2006, 06:28:49 PM »

I've tested some devices, and they used similar principles (more vs. less, etc.), in fact they didn't work.


Thanks for the heads up, but I'm still curious to test if enough magnets in the repultion path can drag a single magnet though the cog point. If indeed 10+ magnets in the path can not drag the last magnet through I'm curious as to the watts required to complete the work and the distance the armature cart will travel. Hopefully in the next year I'll have the time and money to built one of many variations of a repultion driven magnetic motor.



Offline Gregory

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 03:48:44 PM »
Quote
if enough magnets in the repultion path can drag a single magnet though the cog point.

Hi,
I also believe, that in a clever configuration they can. But the problem is not only a mathematic problem, with numbers and positions. The real problem is, that you have to work with magnetic fields, not with only magnets. And all the fields are react each other continously, (change shape), and many times this interaction results in lower torque. And this is what you need, torque to go through the lock point.
Also important how your device transfer the force to the axle. What are the angles of the froces acting on the axle? This is why I think (from my experiments), that your belt type idea is not as good as the first, or the second one. In your first idea you don't need to go through the sticky spot.

Keep in mind you need to work with fields and magnets, not only with magnets and maths.
Anyway, I wish you all the bests, and good experimenting. :)

Regards,
Greg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 03:48:44 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 08:03:20 PM »

your belt type idea is not as good as the first, or the second one.


Very true... Thank you very much for all the constructive critizism and interest. Unfortunately I probably wont have the money to build a prototype of the mim for many decades. (if ever  ???) But for now I'll focus more onwheel based repultion designs. I got a new one to show but I dont know if I should just post it in this thread  or if I should make a new thread for each idea. (I dont wanna flood the "Half Baked Ideas" folder)

Oh well for now here is something new to pour over...

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 08:23:29 PM »
The flux demo above is based on TOMI technology, with one major difference...

In the TOMI concept the plan was to use inertia to overcome the stick point.
(a bad idea from what I've seen in my tests)

Rather only harness the repulsive force and then have the armature magnet fall from the fields reach.

Info on TOMI tech...
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/tomibild.htm

The following animation is based on my expirements with the TOMI track design.

Things to keep in mind:
-each stator magnet is actually 2 magnets with a track between them
-the blue circles on the tention arms are cylinder magnets in top view
-the stator wheel has uniderrectional gearing so the tention arms and
repultion forces are prevented from back spinning the wheel.

(Once again only harness the repultion force)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 08:23:29 PM »
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Offline dean_mcgowan

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 03:44:34 AM »
I was thinking that if he spiral rotor had 3 arms instead of 2 would that provide more force to push it past the lock or would it just be the same net repulsion from the 2 combined arms as the third encountered the locking point?


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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 06:34:10 AM »
I was thinking that if he spiral rotor had 3 arms instead of 2 would that provide more force to push it past the lock or would it just be the same net repulsion from the 2 combined arms as the third encountered the locking point?

Unfortunately I dont know yet... Someone will have to test the idea, but I will say there is little chance of that occuring without a EM forces helping. The reason I believe it cant be that easy is: if indeed 2 magnets in travel can pull the third in to the repulsive flux field then the device would have no mechanical resistance, meaning it would spin up to its max RPM without any introduction of force. Its just not realistic.

Offline energyman8

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 08:12:51 AM »
Hello Dingus,

What are you using to draw the models you are thinking of?

They look great!

Regards,

Eman8

Offline Gregory

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Re: Dynamic spiral motor animation.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 03:42:34 PM »
Dingus,

You are a man, who don't ignore mechanics, and has some sense of combination. These are needed.
You can post here bravely anything what you want, or you can open another topic inside Magnet motors. (Maybe that will be better?)

What do you think, How much money needed to build properly something like the mim? I'm interested about that.

Yeah, this tomi based stuff also interesting. I guess, it will have some back effects at the end of the process, and right after, while the reset happens. But in this form, it is an untested idea, so far when I know right...
If my undertstanding is correct, I think it's not too important how many arms the design have. If it works, it also must work with only one flip-flopping arm. They repeat the same movement, except one case.

On the face of it,  I can see only one more possibility: To set the arms in different positions to each other, so they always stay in different points of interaction, and perhaps this can be helpful, when a single back effect happens.

And also, What do you use to make the animations?

Thanks,

 

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