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Author Topic: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force  (Read 30175 times)

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2015, 11:19:34 PM »
1. For a given rpm (u choose one) of the system without any water flow (just vertical pipe in water), how much power (or if u wish energy) do u need to make it spin?
2. How much energy do u need to make it spin with the same rpm but with the pipes full of water, but no water flow (fill the pipes with water and then seal them)?
3. How much energy u need to achieve same rpm but with water flow now?

Also I agree that an impulse turbine (aka Pelton) should be used to minimize the Coriolis effect. That is in direct relation with the water flow. Question: Increasing the cross section of horizontal pipes can help? (aka make the flow rate smaller).

@ mihai.isteniuc

I am using the man/hand powered setup to feel how much force is being needed to rotate the device by my self.

To come back on your questions:
1. No Water and No Water Flow in the T-(Shaped) arrangement. This turns around quite easy.
2. Water in the T-(Shaped) arrangement, but sealed. So No Water Flow. This takes more power to start, but when it rotates it will take about the same energy as in the previous step.
3. Water Flowing in the T-(Shaped) arrangement. This takes more power then in the previous steps. The higher the Flow Rate, the higher the resistance to turn it around . (aka Coriolis Effect)

So Low Flow Rate and High Pressure will be the Key. (Pelton Turbines are advised to use)

Furthermore about the cross section of of the horizontal pipes I can tell that it is important to keep them big enough, so that water can flow quite easy with low resistance inside the pipe.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline mihai.isteniuc

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2015, 05:29:02 PM »
Hi OUG,

Thanks for your tests and answers. I believe we all expected this kind of behavior. The real problems is that the water molecules aren't happy to be put to work, so they are fighting back with us. The more they travel from the center towards the end of the horizontal pipes the more they fight. Agree with all your conclusions.

I believe we have to back engineer the device. I'm thinking we need the Pelton turbines 1st. They will decide how big the entire test machinery will be, and dictate everything: water flow, length and shape of the horizontal pipes, cross sections and rotation speed, power of the motor and generators and so on. We cant go to some workshop and ask the guys there to execute a few. They are quite complicated and need a lot of calculation and careful design. For testing we need something simple and easy to modify if needed. I'm thinking on plastic tea spoons for beginning. I'll start digging in this direction to see how we can manufacture some cheap but efficient Pelton turbines for our tests. Also buying them is not an option because they have very big prices, even the ones made out from plastic.


I believe i have find some simulation software to see if we can better understand how Coriolis work and what can we do to minimize it (the way i see it now: even if we can design a curved horizontal pipe that will minimize the impact of Coriolis with the pipe, the problem is still there. The Coriolis will then increase the pressure inside the pipes because the new coming water molecules hit the ones before them and so on. I'm not really sure. It is possible that curved or not the results with both designs to be similar). Regarding software no promises cause i only read a little, didn't even install it. Will keep u posted.

@vineet_kiran: interesting suggestion regarding the sponge. Didn't see it that way. Also i think this idea should be tested cause I can really "see" what's happen with the water molecules in this case and how much the water flow and pressure are affected by the sponge ... hmmmm


Mihai

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2015, 03:53:57 PM »
The real problems is that the water molecules aren't happy to be put to work, so they are fighting back with us. The more they travel from the center towards the end of the horizontal pipes the more they fight. Agree with all your conclusions.

Yes this looks to be true. Once the water molecules are turned around but not being displaced inside the tubes, they seem to be perfectly happy. But when the water molecules starts to move towards the circumference (while being rotated of course) they seem to be less satisfied... So the faster they move, the more they try to resist the rotating action... So less Flow and More Pressure (Centrifugal Force) is what we need. As discussed before (Pelton Turbines needs to be used at each end of the rotating horizontal pipes)

I Love your idea about the tea spoons b.t.w. And Yes I know the prices which are asked for even small plastic Pelton/Turgo Turbines are really ridiculous.

For myself I am thinking about a rotating structure with two (simple) custom build plastic Pelton Turbines. Which propel the structure by its self, by means of a belt like arrangement. In which the belt goes from the turbines towards a fixed and stationary center wheel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2015, 03:53:57 PM »
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Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2015, 05:38:08 PM »
 For now, to make it a bit more clear. I made a drawing of the T/S-(Shaped) Turbine concept, which is being equipped with two Pelton Turbines… (this one is supposed to be a self-runner)

Offline miloszlaw

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2015, 01:15:25 AM »
And something like that?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2015, 01:15:25 AM »
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Offline DaS Energy

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2015, 04:15:54 AM »
I like your work. It may help the finished design if you drop the Pelton runner and the generator from the end of swing arm and instead have one centre mounted up above the swing line. The centrifugal drive forces remain and much of the inertia weight is removed.

The drive resembles a pyramid shape with a hole in the top apex, so allowing water flow produced by the swing arms action.

Offline mihai.isteniuc

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2015, 05:53:01 PM »
Hi 2 all,

Pls find attached a document with the conclusions of a team regarding a pico Pelton turbine. The document covers some aspects regarding construction an conclusions after the successful build of the turbine from a more practical point of view.

Mihai

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2015, 05:53:01 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2015, 03:47:13 PM »
@ Mihai, Nice Document on the Design Process of a Pelton Wheel. THX

@ miloszlaw, I think I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish by replacing the rotating tubes with your rotating cylindrical structure. (as can be seen in your Drawing) This because with a rotating cylindrical structure only, there cannot be exerted as much Centrifugal Force on the water compared to when we use a rotating T-(Shaped) Pipe Structure. And furthermore the guide way structure next to each individual Pelton Turbine is also unnecessary in my opinion. This because they are Impulse Turbines. (Please look for the inner workings of Pelton Impulse Turbines on the internet)

For the Self Propelled version, see the Rotation direction indicated by the Arrows. (Counter Clockwise in this Case) This version only works with pulleys and driving belts. So No generators attached…

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2015, 02:44:42 PM »
After a two week testing period during the Christmas holidays, I have tested multiple test rotors for the T/S-(Shaped) Turbine Concept. After this I have now created a wrap-up video, in which my conclusions are being discussed. I also give some extra information about the self-rotating T/S-(Shaped) Turbine concept, which can be built by making use of two simple Pelton Turbines.

Here you will find the link to my new video about my Final Conclusions:

http://youtu.be/BHsB_-h7kkg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2015, 02:44:42 PM »
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Offline mihai.isteniuc

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2015, 05:37:38 PM »
Hi all. I decided to give it a go to this project. Evolution will be slow 'cause lack of time. I'll keep u posted with the findings along the way.

To OUG: did u receive my pm?

Mihai

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2015, 11:55:55 AM »
Hi all. I decided to give it a go to this project. Evolution will be slow 'cause lack of time. I'll keep u posted with the findings along the way.

To OUG: did u receive my pm?

Mihai

Hi Mihai,

Good to hear that you want to do some testing for yourself. I just read your PM about your T-(Shaped) Turbine power calculations. It’s looking good in my opinion. The only thing I would like to know is where you found the formula for calculating the Coriolis (Counter effecting) Force…. Can you provide a source for it on the internet maybe? It's also good to hear that the Counter Effecting Coriolis effect looks to be 30 times less when compared to the Effecting Centrifugal Force in your power calculations! Maybe it's an idea to make your power calculations public on this forum? Thanks, OUG.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2015, 11:55:55 AM »
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Offline miloszlaw

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2015, 01:30:33 PM »
By replacing the rotating tubes with rotating cylindrical structure maby you can reduce the Coriolis effect without reduce Centrifugal Force?

Offline DaS Energy

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2015, 03:00:38 PM »
Liquid filled cylinder with T provides greater inertia energy, lessening the rotation load on the Pelton's.

Offline DaS Energy

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2015, 03:31:41 PM »
 T provides 82% efficient Pelton. DaS 60%.

 Inertia also active in DaS. Turbine is of heavy construction.

 DaS :-) active below zero* C.

 T once spun may continue,

Offline mihai.isteniuc

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Re: T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2015, 06:30:04 PM »
Hi Mihai,

Good to hear that you want to do some testing for yourself. I just read your PM about your T-(Shaped) Turbine power calculations. It’s looking good in my opinion. The only thing I would like to know is where you found the formula for calculating the Coriolis (Counter effecting) Force…. Can you provide a source for it on the internet maybe? It's also good to hear that the Counter Effecting Coriolis effect looks to be 30 times less when compared to the Effecting Centrifugal Force in your power calculations! Maybe it's an idea to make your power calculations public on this forum? Thanks, OUG.

Hi OUG, hi all,

Sorry for my late answer. The formula Coriolis was taken from wikipedia, more precisely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

Mihai

PS I have checked again the calculations and did not find anything wrong. I'll post them and ask help from other members from forum.

 

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