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Author Topic: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!  (Read 33480 times)

Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2014, 11:40:22 PM »
@Broli
Could you redo this sim with a magnet's value of 0.7T (roughly a half of your initial value) ?

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Offline broli

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2014, 12:08:44 AM »
@Broli
Could you redo this sim with a magnet's value of 0.7T (roughly a half of your initial value) ?

Here you go.

Offline NoBull

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 12:27:30 AM »
@NoBull
Have You seen TinMan's video I linked?
What are your thoughts on that real life experiment data?
They are in accordance with 200 year old principles.
There are tiny air gaps which represent huge reluctances to the flux (R4 and R5).
It is not surprising that magnetic flux through R8 is only several percent of the flux through R3 when the proportionality of these reluctances is considered. 

When the coils are loaded then R3 and R8 are converted into delayed MMF sources.
The coupling factor between coils is very low.

The delays between coils wound over R3 and R8 are easily accountable, too, by the different resistances/loads and inductances of the coils.

The larger the coil's resistance, the shorter the net flux change delay*.  This is because a larger resistance dissipates the induced current quicker in the same inductance.  It is this induced current that is responsible for creating the opposing flux, so when this current dies down - so does the opposition.
Superconductors have no resistance so the induced current in them never dies down and the opposition to flux changes persists forever, thus the delay to the external flux change never ends and the net flux through a shorted zero-resistance coil never changes (is constant).

These delays are the basis of operation of the shaded pole motors which cause a flux change delay by a shorted coil in the stator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyEnwJ1Lazg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaded-pole_motor

Old style electromechanical electric power meters with the spinning disk are another devices operating on a similar principle. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter#Electromechanical_meters
These meters also have two different coils that are wound and loaded in such a way as to produce flux 90deg. out of phase.

In this experiment the phase difference is only several degrees, but the principle is the same.
Nothing new.


*More precisely it is about the L/R ratio.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 09:04:53 AM by NoBull »

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2014, 12:27:30 AM »
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Offline life is illusion

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 10:13:41 PM »
Here you go.

Hi broli :)

I love the idea of gap on the path of magnetic current. Thank you guys very much for bringing this up. In last few days that I have started my activities in this page I have learned so much!
Would you guys be kind and let me know what do you think about this model? 3 mm distance between the magnet and solenoid and a 1mm or less gap on the shunt, so that the incoming N would not take the path of shunt as easy as it goes through the main core, but when the N2 is induced on the solenoid, it can take the 1mm gap and get to the other end of solenoid and find S pole! I think its a bit easier to manufacture such solenoid compared to the main solenoid shape I recommended at the beginning. Of course even this can be modified...
Do you think this could at least decrease the Lenz's law fighting us?

Best Regards
Sam
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:31:54 AM by life is illusion »

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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2014, 03:37:10 PM »
Hi  life is illusion ! just a spontaneous idea and always with a sense of humor  : Pseudo parameter control death Lenz   :D  ;D .

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2014, 03:37:10 PM »
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Offline life is illusion

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2014, 12:33:21 AM »
Hi  life is illusion ! just a spontaneous idea and always with a sense of humor  : Pseudo parameter control death Lenz   :D  ;D .

Hello Boris :)

I think having two gaps will put too much of resistance on the path of magnetic current. Also the added solenoid will create a lot of reverse magnetic field and will not allow the reverse magnetic field of main solenoid to exit the conflict zone. On the other hand, I could be totally wrong :D

BR
Sam   
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 11:27:38 AM by life is illusion »

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2014, 11:57:44 AM »
Hello Boris :)

I think having two gaps will put too much of resistance on the path of magnetic current. Also the added solenoid will create a lot of reverse magnetic field and will not allow the reverse magnetic field of main solenoid to exit the conflict zone. On the other hand, I could be totally wrong :D

BR
Sam
  Hello life is illusion . celebratory poem    :D   :
                      Magnet closer happiness brighter.
                                          Resonance occurs in the holiday comes .

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2014, 11:57:44 AM »
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Offline life is illusion

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2014, 08:06:51 PM »

The input prongs would be perpendicular to the plane of the ring core, both would be attached to the side of the ring core with identical and at least as small air gap as there is now in tinman's C core attachment, the latter are fastened by probably with glue and two rubber bands. I assume that the air gap in tinman setup between the two C cores I indicated in red in the picture can be any value between say 0.06 to 0.1 mm.  This gap can already cause a magnetic reluctance value high enough in the secondary path of the setup so that the input flux prefers to choose mainly the yellow path.

Agree?  Remember that in the drawing made by Sam earlier in this thread, there were no any air gap indicated or referred to between the center and the C core.

Gyula

Hi Gyula :)

As you can see in Tinman's second video, there are no air gaps and the two sides of the C cores are just pushed against each other by a rubber band :)
Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtB_7RkEg


As you can see in the first video the motor is pulling 164.4 milliamps and the primary and secondary are both on load. In the second video the secondary is removed and primary is open and the motor is pulling 166.2 milliamps.
After all, I think it is very possible to crack this curse of Lenz's law ;) I'm waiting to see Tinman making the 3rd video!

And guys, when you do the experiments and video them, please share your results in here. I don't know almost any of you and I don't know if I have you in my subscription list in youtube. It would be amazing if you could share your findings in here also so that I can see if I  have made mistakes in my calculations or if they function just like I imagined them to :)

Best Regards
Sam 

« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 02:30:37 AM by life is illusion »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2014, 08:30:35 PM »

Sam,

There is air gap in tinman setup between the two C cores, even if it is a very tiny one, it can cause a much higher reluctance in the core than a continuos piece of ferrite rod has, even if the 'rod' is not straight but has a rectangular C shape with corners.

This is why I wrote that I agree with kEhYo77 as he said:  "...as soon as the magnetic loop is being established the first path becomes more and more 'conductive' for the flux, that is why it is concentrated there in the end."

So the entering N pole flux of rotor magnet prefers the first C core very next to the rotor for closing its magnetic path towards its own S pole.
Supposing the case when the flux enters a ring core with no any air gap at say the 12 o'clock area and leaves the ring core at its 6 o'clock area via two ferrite prongs that are perpendicular to the ring core, then in both magnetic path of the ring core the entering flux would be divided equally because both path would have equal reluctance values.

Regarding the current draw of 164.4 mA and the 166.2 mA in the 2nd video: I am not sure what you ask or mean but I can say that: The 100 Ohm and the 2 to 90 Ohm loads are very 'easy' loads so due to this, the Lenz effect can only be also low by 'default'. If you estimate the load currents, the primary coil is loaded by 1.3 Vrms/100 Ohm = 13 mA and the secondary coil is loaded by about 3 mA (0.27 Vrms/90 Ohm) or 6.85 mA when the load is only 2 Ohm across the secondary (0.0137 Vrms/2 Ohm).  So the load currents are very low with respect to the input current of 164.4 mA taken by the prime mover motor.
And it is not known what the current draw would have been if tinman had removed the C cores with the resistor loads completely and the prime mover motor would have been spinning on its own in the same setup. 
In the drag test video tinman did not mention whether he used the same supply voltage to the prime mover so we have no real info why or how the 166.2 mA current draw was taken.

Gyula

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2014, 08:30:35 PM »
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Offline life is illusion

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2015, 03:18:12 PM »

Gyula

Hello Gyula :)
As I have said before, I really liked your gap idea and I think I'm gonna use it in many of my future works :) But air gap or no air gap, the whole purpose is to achieve a low "lenz" or "lenz free" generator :)
And about Tinman's video, I agree with you that the information is not shared yet, that is why I am waiting for the 3rd video, but I just assume (I know assuming is not a smart thing to do) that he is running the motor with the same voltage input, but lets wait and see if Tinman comes to tell us about this himself :) I think if the concept works to a degree, we could make a bit bigger coils and put bigger loads on them :) I am very thankful to Tinman for conducting this experiment, he did an amazing job :)

Best Regards
Sam

Offline dieter

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2015, 05:15:18 PM »
Basicly the theory is the same with Thane Heins: Offer the CEMF an easier path. In theory the current in the 2nd coil, if it consists the CEMF, should be reversed compared to the first coil. In theory the path trough the second coil should become less attractive when under load, resulting in reduced RPM. Which didn't happen which is contradicting.  :o However, deflecting the CEMF to a separate core loop will prevent the Lenz effect, no need for a second coil if this works. Although, a Gap may be required to prevent the primary flux to skip the first coil and use 'the easy path" instead.

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2015, 05:15:18 PM »
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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2015, 06:27:09 PM »
Hi All ! Well, if there named Thane Heins and love gaps  ....  surprise !
           Thane Heins + Gap = Valeri Ivanov  ( Bulgaria ) .  600 percent efficiency ! ! 
   http://www.inkomp-delta.com/   ,   http://www.youtube.com/user/Waleri1021/videos  .

Offline life is illusion

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Re: Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2015, 11:54:21 PM »
Hi All ! Well, if there named Thane Heins and love gaps  ....  surprise !
           Thane Heins + Gap = Valeri Ivanov  ( Bulgaria ) .  600 percent efficiency ! ! 
   http://www.inkomp-delta.com/   ,   http://www.youtube.com/user/Waleri1021/videos  .

Boris, I really liked this design. Thanks a lot for sharing it. Pasiba :) 600% is truly amazing achievement! Now I just feel like putting a shunt next to the secondary of the generator. I think I should change my name and call myself "the shunt man" or even "gaped shunt man" :D

@ dieter, I totally agree my friend, I think the second coil is not needed, but if it doesn't interfere with the primary nor with the rotating disk of magnets, then it is more than welcome to join our party :)

Best Regards
Sam

 

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