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New theories about free energy systems => Theory of overunity and free energy => Topic started by: life is illusion on December 21, 2014, 09:20:03 PM

Title: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 21, 2014, 09:20:03 PM
Hello every one  :)

In here I share with you a generator that in my opinion could go around Lenz's law and then you know what happens next ;)

I hope you find it interesting and if anyone builds a similar device, please share your results :) You can see this effect in the video which can be found in the description box.

Here you can see the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTsOxzVTE8&list=UUXEFFysykQp53qAVElhrAgg

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 23, 2014, 11:11:17 AM
No one wanna say anything about this one? :D Come on guys, this is a very different design than the rest of the things I have been sharing in here :D I don't have so much time on this earth, I got a death sentence, I wanna see what you guys think before I die ;)

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ElectricPirate on December 23, 2014, 02:32:45 PM
You still need many rice to eat. boy!    ;D
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 23, 2014, 10:09:22 PM
You still need many rice to eat. boy!    ;D

 Actually I really miss eating rice, because in this part of Europe we only eat potatoes :D

BR
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 24, 2014, 02:35:45 AM
Hi Lii,


I'd  like to discuss this, although I am not one of the sceptics and I do not claim to be perfect. At least I get no paycheck from the oil lobby...


Before I forget, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyDf6hQe0Ao&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyDf6hQe0Ao&feature=youtube_gdata_player)


I like the idea in your vid. Unlike the other one about using CW+CCW bifilars, this one seems to have potential.


The problem with the bifilar was, when you run a current trough it then sure a compass will not react, but when you induce a current with a PM then it will run reversly in one of the filars, resulting again in the full Lorentz force, and Lenz is laughing at you. When you connect the two filars, they will electrically cancel eachother out... well maybe only by 97% and you may get some lenzfree induction, probably only at a certain RPM. But ok lets talk about this new video.


I like the idea. There is one thing I'd like to discuss: it is teached that the Lorentz force always opposes the force that causes the induction. But this is a lie. Only the sum of the Lorentz force of a common coil does that, but basicly the following happens:


(Everyone should do this simple experiment personally)


When you have a thin wire with a dc current flowing in it, eg. 1 foot thin copper magnet wire, freely hanging in the air, and now you move a permanent magnet towards it, the wire will NOT be repelled or attracted in the direction of your motion (as Lenz states), but in a 90 degrees angle to the magnetic axle or vector. When you approach North to the wire, the wire will move left. If it's south then the wire goes right. Of course, in a solenoid that means the magnet is pushed eighter towards the center or away from it. Let's forget the solenoid for a moment.


Of course, when you're approaching the Nortpole from the right side then Lenz's law is valid. But when you approach it from the front or from top or bottom then the "repelling" force will be in 90% angle to the momentum and thus be only a matter of friction. Nevertheless, on its way the magnet reaches a point where it's flux fully impacts the wire.


I think this is the principle in your vid.


I got to breed this a lil further ^^


Peace.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 24, 2014, 06:47:05 AM
Ok, after some breeding, what do you think about this:


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Madeo on December 24, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Hi guys,


I'm glad to see something really productive being posted here.  I was thinking that rather building a completely different generator/motor that is lenz free,  it would be equally just as effective if we can attach a regular generator to a Bi-toroid transformer. The generator would not feel any more resistance under load than it would be without one. Of course, building a Bi-toroid transformer is difficult but easier than a completely new type of generator.




Madeo
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 24, 2014, 05:29:13 PM
Ok, after some breeding, what do you think about this:

Hi dieter :)
Man, that video was really amazing! wow! I would looooove to know how it works!
And Lorenz force: I totally agree with you. I have spent hours studying those effects and I found very interesting things. I make a video about that subject soon and I share it with you guys :) The wire actually moves up and the moves to the side of the permanent magnet. Actually I think this test helped me to map the real shape of magnetic filed...
Aaaand your amazing model. I loved it. Really beautiful work my friend :) I also think maybe it could help if we would shape the magnets so that each magnet would cover almost half of the solenoid. And about the solenoids, do you think it would be any better if they were rectangular and not curved? I try to make a sketch and I hope I can show what I mean :)

I also think we should use Iron oxide powder and epoxy glue to make cores for the solenoids.

BR
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on December 24, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
Hi folks, Hi life is illusion, thanks for sharing.
I had an air coil already made here and 2 large cylinder neo magnets to test this.
It seems when the magnets move perfectly aligned to the center as you show, no current is generated and of course no lenz resistance to motion either.
I feel the re-routing of induced lenz flux ideas are more promising.
peace love light :)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 24, 2014, 11:09:25 PM
Thanks everybody for your answers.


Madeo,
You certainly have a point there, running a common generator over a BiToroid transformer could simplify the task. But it also requires to achieve a high coupling in the first place. It is definitely something to try, eg. when you have metglas or other high efficiency cores. BiToroids are hotly debated and not only the notorious sceptics have some doubts, so personally I first would habe to verify a couple of things. But thanks for the suggestion. Maybe a parallel project.


Lii, glad you like my model. That was some rather messy code to bend a torus to such a square bended coil.


In your drawing I see several things I want to address: The Magnet pairs should alternate in polarity (this may explain why Skywatcher123 didn't get any current).
And yes, the solenoid should be square. The most significant observation from the wire experiment is, the Lotentz force follows blindly the right hand rule! The magnetic field points away from the wire as the 90° thumb, so you should not cross the wire that way.
All we need is alternating flux, it does not matter from where the Magnet is coming. So we are approaching along the wire, as seen in the model. In your drawing you would move the PMs outward, so only the vertical sides will be in a strong field.


Using cores for the solenoid may or may not ruin the effect. This should be studied further. However, we have to expect lower watt per space, but that is fine for me if we really can turn off the Lorentz force.


Maybe a split core would be the solution, just two bars along the sides we are using. Furthermore, these sides may be longer than the width of the rectangular solenoid. A MOT secondary may work as the coil in a design like yours.


SkyWatcher123, thanks for your data, see my remark above. Rerouting is an other promising approach, but it also throws up many new questions, as I am just experiencing.


Merry christmas to all of you.


Peace


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 25, 2014, 09:15:50 AM

In your drawing I see several things I want to address: The Magnet pairs should alternate in polarity (this may explain why Skywatcher123 didn't get any current).
And yes, the solenoid should be square. The most significant observation from the wire experiment is, the Lotentz force follows blindly the right hand rule! The magnetic field points away from the wire as the 90° thumb, so you should not cross the wire that way.
All we need is alternating flux, it does not matter from where the Magnet is coming. So we are approaching along the wire, as seen in the model. In your drawing you would move the PMs outward, so only the vertical sides will be in a strong field.

Using cores for the solenoid may or may not ruin the effect. This should be studied further. However, we have to expect lower watt per space, but that is fine for me if we really can turn off the Lorentz force.


Maybe a split core would be the solution, just two bars along the sides we are using. Furthermore, these sides may be longer than the width of the rectangular solenoid. A MOT secondary may work as the coil in a design like yours.


Dear dieter,
Seems like I made a mistake and didn't explain what I meant by the drawing. I was trying to show the 3 different stages that same solenoid goes through when the same pair of magnets are approaching it. I absolutely agree that magnetic polarities must be altered :) Sorry, my bad...
And yes, I also agree about the core. Anyways, thanks for taking your time and working on this and explaining all these for me, I appreciate it :)

Wish you all a Merry Christmas :)
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 25, 2014, 09:29:18 PM
Hi Lii
I was thinking about it some more. Even with a rectangular solenoid there are still the corners where the magnet passes by in the 90° angle. So I now am not sure anymore if my model is such a good idea.


Recalling the wire experiment, it really depends on the angle of the magnet. But that is a whole new chapter... Yes, a bar magnet has a magnetic axis, roughly seen. But when you play with two bar magnets and "feel" the shape of the magnetic fields at the pole ends by holding the two north poles together, sliding around in the repelling space, then you'll notice that the field distribution is not just axial, but spherical. I wonder if the wire reacts on the axis between the poles of the pm, or on the spherical pole.


Also interesting in the wire experiment: After the wire went left (or right, depending on the PM's pole), it would stick to the very left edge of the bar end. And the confusing thing is, with the other pole of the PM it would also stick, but on the other edge. Bit hard to explain, easily misunderstood. I mean, the same wire with the same DC current would stick on both the north pole and the south pole of the magnet, but one time at the left edge of the pole and the other time at the right edge of the pole/bar end. But that happens only when the wirevis closer then the center of the polar field. Which may indicate that the wire reacts on the spherical shape of the polar field... A lot to consider.


Nonetheless I still tend to assume it is the axis between the poles on which the wire reacts. Well, I hope so.


A further thing is the potential cummulation of wire-fields. A one winding  layer solenoid has the same responding features like a single wire. But how about a thick coil? Could it be that multiple layers are deflecting eachother towards the front? Well I got to test that.


Furthermore, I had a kind of a slightly crazy vision of the following: when the lorentz force pushes in a 90° angle relative to the mechanical force of the PM's motion and when a giroscopical force also pushes in a 90° angle relative to gravity (see Laithwaite etc.), then the two phenomena combined probably could be used to cause a force amplifier out of (yeah, some critics will jump up from their chairs now) out of a zero point energy field or however you wanna call it. Because 90+90=180 Degree and normally a reaction is already in 180°, so add 180 to that and then the Reaction does no longer oppose the action, but support or amplify it. Well if this works, then one could only hope there is enough friction, otherwise it would recursively amplify itself and finally kick the planet out of the orbit ^^ Even if that would definitely proof that there is no (more) pink unicorn in TK's backyard, we probably don't want to go that far...


Maybe a bit more practical is an approach that as far as I am concerned is called GAP. Following again the wire experiment outcome, when you approach a magnet frontal to a solenoid, then the Lorentz force should be in a perfect 90° angle. This would have to be a piston type of engine, instead of a rotating one. I am not sure if the continous accelleration and braking of the piston mass would cause additional energy consumption if a spring system is used (anyone?), but as far as I see, the induction of such a frontal proximation of PM and Coil (unlike the common drive-by method) would be "Lenz-free".


Peace





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 25, 2014, 10:08:51 PM


Also interesting in the wire experiment: After the wire went left (or right, depending on the PM's pole), it would stick to the very left edge of the bar end. And the confusing thing is, with the other pole of the PM it would also stick, but on the other edge. Bit hard to explain, easily misunderstood. I mean, the same wire with the same DC current would stick on both the north pole and the south pole of the magnet, but one time at the left edge of the pole and the other time at the right edge of the pole/bar end. But that happens only when the wirevis closer then the center of the polar field. Which may indicate that the wire reacts on the spherical shape of the polar field... A lot to consider.


Hi dieter :)

I will read your last comment more carefully tomorrow and I will give it more time and thought but for now I would like to send you the results of what I have seen from playing with a wire and permanent magnet :) I hope the size of the pics are gonna be ok :D I have noticed that the wire lifts up from the surface of the magnet at the beginning and then it will move towards the other edge, but if we give it some space, it will go to the equator of magnet. I have a magnet viewing film and by that I can clearly see that there is a fine line separating the the N hemisphere and S hemisphere ( You are absolutely right, they are hemispheric shape). To me it seems like the field is coming out of N pole and goes to the equator and then a second field (S pole) starts coming out form the equator (couple of mm from where the N went in) and goes to the other end of the magnet (S pole). I'm in my girlfriend's parent's house and I don't have access to my stuff, other wise I would take a video and show you the action :) Please let me know what you think.

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 25, 2014, 10:41:03 PM
Yes! That's about what happens. Although I am not sure if the wire travels all the way down to the neutral spot, but there certainly is not much (probably close to zero, if not less than) resistance against travelling from the upper right edge to the neutral zone.


Remarkable is the fact that it goes right all the time, even when it should stop in the center, when you watch the direction arrows.


This clearly proofs that the current causes an electronic spin of high speed that gyroscopicly shifts the angular momentum of magnetical attraction or repulsion by 90°.


Search for Laithwaite or Gyroscopical recession on Youtube to see the same thing with mass and gravity on a macroscopical scale.


Peace.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 25, 2014, 11:48:28 PM
Here is one possible conclusion to the observation being made (which would be the piston system):

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 26, 2014, 09:06:09 AM
Here is one possible conclusion to the observation being made (which would be the piston system):

Hi dieter :)

If I understand correctly, in your last drawing on the right hand side, it is suggested that if we bring the coil down to the magnet, we will not face the lenz resistance! Am I right? Well, when it comes to coils, I think we should forget the Lorenz force and see the solenoid as a magnet with similar pole which will be facing a resistance when its coming anywhere near to a magnet. This vide helped me a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXPmYGIOs4

So I think whether we come down on the magnet or come to it from left or right, we will face the Lenz's law anyways :) From what I have seen, a single wire behaves very different than a closed lope (such as coil or a copper plate) when brought into a magnetic filed.

BR
Sam 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 26, 2014, 10:34:33 PM
When it comes to coils we should forget the Lorentz force?? Are you serious? Lenz'law is all about the Lorentz force. People say Lenzfree but they mean Lorentzfree.
After all a coil is made of a wire. Where did that force go?


Peace
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 27, 2014, 01:15:21 PM
When it comes to coils we should forget the Lorentz force?? Are you serious? Lenz'law is all about the Lorentz force. People say Lenzfree but they mean Lorentzfree.
After all a coil is made of a wire. Where did that force go?


Peace

Hi dieter :)
After I say this, you are gonna hate me, but please let me know if you think I am wrong :D
In the following pic, in section A, we can see what Lorenz force predicts what will happen to the current carrying wire (current going away from us). Lorenz says that wire just moves towards right hand side of the magnet and moves away from it. But when ever I test this, the wire first takes off from the surface of magnet and then will go towards the right hand side and then it will attach to the right edge of magnet and if you give it some space, it will go to equator of magnet.

In section B, Lorenz says that a current carrying wire (current is coming towards us) will move to the left hand side of magnet and goes away from magnetic filed, but again the same thing happens: First wire takes off from the surface of magnet and then goes to the equator of magnet on the left side.

In section C, we can see that the same wire is looped and when this happens the whole coil will take off from the surface of the magnet and as we say it, magnet "repels" the coil :)

So, yes, I think Lorenz force is wrong, at least it is not complete and when we deal with current carrying solenoids which are facing surface of a magnet , we should forget about the Lorenz force, because Lorenz doesn't explain what happens in this section. At least this is my understanding of what happens in here. I would very much appreciate if you could tell me what you think about all these :)

I think the upwards movement of wires (In section A for example) happen because of the resistance the wire faces when they tries to move to the right hand side of magnet. Same thing happens when in section B, wire tries to move towards the left hand side of magnet. It faces a resistance and moves upwards. This resistance becomes stronger when we have a coil on top of a magnet. Right wires try to go to left and left wires will try to go to right and they end up taking off from surface of magnet.

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 27, 2014, 01:27:03 PM
Ok, but imagine the solenoid diameter is 50% of that of the PM...


Peace


BTW. what you labeled Lorentz Force is not the official definition, but my revision.
Officially it is the force, that somehow magically opposes any mechanical force that drives a generators shaft.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on December 27, 2014, 01:33:04 PM
Hi dieter :)
After I say this, you are gonna hate me, but please let me know if you think I am wrong :D
In the following pic, in section A, we can see what Lorenz force predicts what will happen to the current carrying wire (current going away from us). Lorenz says that wire just moves towards right hand side of the magnet and moves away from it. But when ever I test this, the wire first takes off from the surface of magnet and then will go towards the right hand side and then it will attach to the right edge of magnet and if you give it some space, it will go to equator of magnet.

In section B, Lorenz says that a current carrying wire (current is coming towards us) will move to the left hand side of magnet and goes away from magnetic filed, but again the same thing happens: First wire takes off from the surface of magnet and then goes to the equator of magnet on the left side.

In section C, we can see that the same wire is looped and when this happens the whole coil will take off from the surface of the magnet and as we say it, magnet "repels" the coil :)

So, yes, I think Lorenz force is wrong, at least it is not complete and when we deal with current carrying solenoids which are facing surface of a magnet , we should forget about the Lorenz force, because Lorenz doesn't explain what happens in this section. At least this is my understanding of what happens in here. I would very much appreciate if you could tell me what you think about all these :)

I think the upwards movement of wires (In section A for example) happen because of the resistance the wire faces when they tries to move to the right hand side of magnet. Same thing happens when in section B, wire tries to move towards the left hand side of magnet. It faces a resistance and moves upwards. This resistance becomes stronger when we have a coil on top of a magnet. Right wires try to go to left and left wires will try to go to right and they end up taking off from surface of magnet.

Best Regards
Sam
Turn your magnets 90*,and bobs ya uncle,all is well.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 27, 2014, 02:21:13 PM
Turn your magnets 90*,and bobs ya uncle,all is well.

Hi Tinman :) Thanks for commenting.
I have done the 90 degrees rotation of magnet with a single wire and the wire goes to the equator of magnet and stops there, but I have not done the test with solenoid and I don't have any of my stuff in here (I'm traveling now), but as soon as I get home, I test that also. But I think the solenoid will just try to rotate the magnet 90 degrees so S pole of magnet faces the N pole of solenoid :)

@dieter. Hi again :) I can not imagine ( I don't have the possibility to test right now, so I'm just assuming) any difference in outcome by changing the diameter of the coil :) 

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on December 27, 2014, 03:00:53 PM
Hi Tinman :) Thanks for commenting.
I have done the 90 degrees rotation of magnet with a single wire and the wire goes to the equator of magnet and stops there, but I have not done the test with solenoid and I don't have any of my stuff in here (I'm traveling now), but as soon as I get home, I test that also. But I think the solenoid will just try to rotate the magnet 90 degrees so S pole of magnet faces the N pole of solenoid :)

@dieter. Hi again :) I can not imagine ( I don't have the possibility to test right now, so I'm just assuming) any difference in outcome by changing the diameter of the coil :) 

Best Regards
Sam
It would help you out if you go read up on how the homopolar motor works. This will explain thing much better.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 27, 2014, 05:22:07 PM
It would help you out if you go read up on how the homopolar motor works. This will explain thing much better.

Actually I am familiar with homopolar motors and one of the next topic I was planing to share in here is about "N machine" or homopolar generator and discuss about why they generate high current and low voltage and how to increase their power output :)

Best Regards
Sam 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: TinselKoala on December 27, 2014, 05:39:57 PM
I think the problem is that the field from the small magnets is not uniform and the test wires are experiencing this, since the magnet pole area is small. If you sketch out the "field lines" curving about the small magnet,  you will probably find that the wire moves just as predicted wrt to the actual geometry of the field. If you can arrange for a large, uniform field by stacking magnets side by side, or other configurations, you will probably be able to get rid of the "strange" motions of the wire and see that it does move just as predicted by the force law when in a uniform field.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 28, 2014, 02:13:26 AM
Lii, it is not hard to imagine. Look at your drawing. How are the arrows 25% from the edge? Perfectly horizontal.


Although, I have made slightly diffrent observations with a coil and a small cylindrical magnet: the closer the magnet is to the edge, the more is the force horizontal. The closer the magnet is to the center of the coil, the more vertical is the force. As we have seen with the wire, this has nothing to do with the distance. There clearly IS a 90 deg shifting of the reaction. Instead of attraction to north and repulsion to south, we now see Attraction at the left edge of north and repulsion at the right edge of the same pole, or visa versa with a reverse current, and the same thing works with the south pole.


As I have already mentioned, this phenomenon can be seen only in gyroscopical recession.
Tinman, I'm afraid turning the PMs by 90° will nullify the induction efficiency.


TK, I don't think so and I highly reccommend you do this simple experiment personally right now.


Peace
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 28, 2014, 08:59:54 PM


Although, I have made slightly diffrent observations with a coil and a small cylindrical magnet: the closer the magnet is to the edge, the more is the force horizontal. The closer the magnet is to the center of the coil, the more vertical is the force. As we have seen with the wire, this has nothing to do with the distance. There clearly IS a 90 deg shifting of the reaction. Instead of attraction to north and repulsion to south, we now see Attraction at the left edge of north and repulsion at the right edge of the same pole, or visa versa with a reverse current, and the same thing works with the south pole.


As I have already mentioned, this phenomenon can be seen only in gyroscopical recession.


Hi dieter :)
You are very right my friend :) When magnet moved vertically towards the edge of a solenoid, the solenoid will move away from magnet horizontally! So much for " for every action there is equal and OPPOSITE reaction" :D Its absolutely a gyroscopic phenomenon!
I have been trying to think about this since morning and I will continue thinking about this. Something tells me we can find an interesting results by studying these effects :)

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on December 28, 2014, 09:37:51 PM
Okay boys, let's bring out the big guns.

The answer is in this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c)

In plain technical English, the force on the wire is the cross product of the direction the current is flowing in and the direction of the magnetic field.  That will cover every possible force phenomenon you observe when having a current-carrying wire interact with the magnetic field of a magnet.

It's universal, it will apply anywhere.  it explains the fantastic "Rodin coil as the next-generation high-fidelity speaker system" also.

In simple English, if the current is flowing in direction X, and the magnetic field is in direction Y, then the force will be in direction Z.  In other words, the force is at right angles to the direction of the wire and at right angles to the direction of the magnetic field, a la x-y-z.

Quote
Its absolutely a gyroscopic phenomenon!

Whoops!  I don't think so, just look at the clip.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: broli on December 28, 2014, 09:54:16 PM
Okay boys, let's bring out the big guns.

The answer is in this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbhcdS328c)

In plain technical English, the force on the wire is the cross product of the direction the current is flowing in and the direction of the magnetic field.  That will cover every possible force phenomenon you observe when having a current-carrying wire interact with the magnetic field of a magnet.

It's universal, it will apply anywhere.  it explains the fantastic "Rodin coil as the next-generation high-fidelity speaker system" also.

In simple English, if the current is flowing in direction X, and the magnetic field is in direction Y, then the force will be in direction Z.  In other words, the force is at right angles to the direction of the wire and at right angles to the direction of the magnetic field, a la x-y-z.

Whoops!  I don't think so, just look at the clip.

Not everybody necessarily agrees with that point of view. Here's one person who doesn for example: https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti (https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti)

He makes equally good video presentations. I dare you to play the whole playlist (but I doubt you will :) ).
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 28, 2014, 10:09:22 PM
Not everybody necessarily agrees with that point of view. Here's one person who doesn for example: https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti (https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti)

He makes equally good video presentations. I dare you to play the whole playlist (but I doubt you will :) ).
Hello :)

I can not thank you enough for sharing the youtube channel. I am already in love with the guy :)

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on December 28, 2014, 10:20:48 PM
Not everybody necessarily agrees with that point of view. Here's one person who doesn for example: https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti (https://www.youtube.com/user/rdistinti)

He makes equally good video presentations. I dare you to play the whole playlist (but I doubt you will :) ).

I am looking at his channel and I don't see anything yet about the interaction between a current-carrying wire and a constant magnetic field.  I doubt that he discusses this or discusses the root explanation.  Assuming that I am correct, how do you know that he disagrees with what is taught in the clip I linked to?  Perhaps you are making a judgment too soon.

You notice in my clip he explains how an electric motor works.  Anybody could set up a simple experiment and verify that what is stated in the clip is true.  Make a little motor with some loops of wire and a pivot point.  Sit that on top of one of your bigger coils and put DC current through the coil.  Then put current through the loops of wire and confirm that the cross-product interaction takes place.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: TinselKoala on December 28, 2014, 10:44:48 PM
(snip)


TK, I don't think so and I highly reccommend you do this simple experiment personally right now.


Peace

Yes, I do think so, and the "experiment" is performed every time anyone runs an electric motor or generator. MH has explained it above, it is incorporated in Maxwell's Equations, you can see it happening in CRT tubes (remember those?) and in many other places in our modern lives, if you know where to look. If you could draw out accurately the "field lines" produced by your magnets or solenoids and the lines produced by the current-carrying wires, and could do the math, you would see that the vector cross-product interaction is describing accurately how things move. After all, it is just that very math that _real engineers_ use to design _real systems_ that _actually work as designed_.

Don't forget that there is a very real and important distinction between "experiment" and "demonstration". An experiment varies one or more "Independent Variables" and examines the effect of this variation on one or more "Dependent Variables" , with other variables that may confound results held constant or otherwise controlled and accounted for, and is able to assign cause-and-effect relationships between the IVs and the DVs. An experiment tests a well stated hypothesis in an attempt to falsify it, and when the attempt at falsification fails, then the hypothesis can be taken as supported by the data. "Proof" is something that is really not part of an experiment; support for a hypothesis, and by extension the overarching theory that generates the hypothesis, is all a real scientist can expect. But _disproof_ is real and is solidly attainable; if the experiment, properly done, falsifies the original hypothesis you can be confident that it is disproven.

A demonstration, otoh, just illustrates a phenomenon, and is usually conducted to try to  "prove" a point... and in the cases we encounter here and in places like this, that point is generally some hard-held item of faith that the demonstrator wants to convince others about. It is a _lot_ easier to do demonstrations, than to do actual experiments. But you can conclude nothing reliably from a mere demonstration.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 28, 2014, 11:58:22 PM
TK, that's a lot of cynical, sarcastic mambo jambo, considering the appearent fact that you still were unable to this extremly basic test personally. Maybe you ain't got no battery, wire and magnet at hands. Or maybe it's lazyness.
However, I may no more exceptionally unignore your comments because the mood of it outweights the scientific value.


Peace.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on December 29, 2014, 12:35:00 AM
Quote
Although, I have made slightly diffrent observations with a coil and a small cylindrical magnet: the closer the magnet is to the edge, the more is the force horizontal. The closer the magnet is to the center of the coil, the more vertical is the force. As we have seen with the wire, this has nothing to do with the distance. There clearly IS a 90 deg shifting of the reaction. Instead of attraction to north and repulsion to south, we now see Attraction at the left edge of north and repulsion at the right edge of the same pole, or visa versa with a reverse current, and the same thing works with the south pole.


As I have already mentioned, this phenomenon can be seen only in gyroscopical recession.
Tinman, I'm afraid turning the PMs by 90° will nullify the induction efficiency.

The problem is that the above is the mambo jambo.  The terminology is not correct and you are not stripping the investigation down to the bare essentials.  How does a wire with current flowing though it react to the presence of a magnetic field?   The clip I linked to gives you the real answer.

Then if you extend the investigation to a magnet you have to ask yourself what is the direction of the magnetic field around the magnet.  Then once you have established the direction of the magnetic field where you want to make your test, put the current-carrying wire in place and make your observations.

You can't render a judgment on something from a position of half-awareness and speculation with a bias towards "we don't know everything" all the time.  If you just back up and watch my clip and absorb the information then everything will make sense when you explore magnet/wire interactions.

This one is a done deal, and hopefully you and others will appreciate this.  The Rodin coil demo where they turn it into a tinny speaker is a farce because they fail to explain the mechanism producing the sound and instead attempt to bundle it in with the alleged "unique properties of the Rodin coil."
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: TinselKoala on December 29, 2014, 01:56:53 AM
TK, that's a lot of cynical, sarcastic mambo jambo, considering the appearent fact that you still were unable to this extremly basic test personally. Maybe you ain't got no battery, wire and magnet at hands. Or maybe it's lazyness.
However, I may no more exceptionally unignore your comments because the mood of it outweights the scientific value.


Peace.

Ah, no it is not. If I performed the DEMONSTRATION you have suggested of course I will get the same result. And I have explained why, already, and I've suggested, twice now, how to explain those result properly and how they actually do correspond to what is predicted by the actual math. You seem to think that magnetic field lines of force are uniformly straight up out of a magnet or solenoid pole. They are not, they are closed curves and are especially tightly curved at the edges of the magnet or solenoid face. The vector cross product applies, and fully describes the movement of the wire in the DEMONSTRATION you are talking about.

And the examples I gave: electric motor design, generator design, the performance of CRTs, etc etc are instances that work the way they do because they were designed by engineers using that math. The FACT that these and other systems work is a consequence of the understanding of the relationships embodied in the equations that predict the motions and interactions concerned. And your DEMONSTRATION actually demonstrates the truth and validity of those predictions. But since your mental model is incorrect, you cannot perceive this fact, and you will be hopeless if you actually try to design something using your incorrect model.

The paragraph I wrote about the nature of true experiments is solid fact and you can look it up for yourself. Google "true experiment" and read some of the 235 million results you get back.

Do you seriously think that I don't have batteries, magnets, wires and all of that? That I am lazy, with over 700 videos concerning various topics? You are funny indeed.


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 29, 2014, 02:27:28 AM
Broli, that is an interesting channel, for an electrical engineer with 30 years experience this guy is remarkably openminded. I like his attitude and even more the attitude of Mr. T., who is introduced in "New Magnetism".


And I wasn't aware that Heaviside was selfthought, postmortem kudos. Even if he allowed some facts be slipped under the table in order to simplify things for Steinmetz and Co.


I was reading your quote on MH. I don't want to spend too much energy in a defensive statement, but consider that in his teaching he didn't even mention any vector or speed of motion that mechanicly causes the flux change. This way he does not only miss the whole point of this discussion, but reveals a severe lack of understanding in the field of induction. So this may be worse than I thought. I don't want to insult the guy, this is just a conclusion.


When you read about Lenz' Law, as well as the Lorentz force,  on Wikipedia then the part that explains the thing that brakes a generator under load takes less than a half a phrase, stating that the lorentz force opposes every force that "causes" the induction. Now THAT is totally scientific, right? The whole bunch of equations certainly proofs it. NOT. Nonetheless it is stated that the lorentz force is in 90° angle to the B field (regardless of motion vector).


I think we really need to reexamine the very basics, find the flaws in the doctrine so we can proceed.


Peace

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on December 29, 2014, 03:28:25 AM
Quote
I was reading your quote on MH. I don't want to spend too much energy in a defensive statement, but consider that in his teaching he didn't even mention any vector or speed of motion that mechanicly causes the flux change. This way he does not only miss the whole point of this discussion, but reveals a severe lack of understanding in the field of induction. So this may be worse than I thought. I don't want to insult the guy, this is just a conclusion.

The remedial debating team strikes again.  All that I ask is that if you want to consider alternative explanations for things is that you also look at what established science has to offer.  We have the technology, we have figured out how a current-carrying wire interacts with a magnetic field.  Just remember that among the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 30, 2014, 01:39:52 AM
Ok guys, I did the test and I have to say that I was wrong and it doesn't work the way I was thinking it would. I'm sorry for wasting your times... Well, at least now I know that this design doesn't work and why...

Thanks to all of those who participated in this conversation :)

Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 30, 2014, 06:46:36 PM
What exactly happened?


Peace
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: BorisKrabow on December 30, 2014, 09:04:12 PM
Hi All !  I accidentally found a russian document about Lorentz . 
     RUS  : Так, если изменение магнитного потока вызвано изменением площади контура
 (например, за счёт движения одной из сторон прямоугольного контура),
 то индукционный ток возбуждается силой Лоренца,
 действующей на электроны перемещаемого проводника в
 постоянном магнитном поле.
 Если же изменение магнитного потока связано с изменением величины внешнего магнитного поля,
 то индукционный ток возбуждается вихревым электрическим полем,
появляющимся при изменении магнитного поля.
    translate.google.com
  EN  :  Thus, if the change caused by the change of the magnetic flux loop area
  (eg, due to movement of one of the sides of a rectangular circuit)
  then the induced current is excited by the Lorentz force,
  acting on the electrons move in a conductor
  constant magnetic field.
  If the magnetic flux change due to the change of the external magnetic field,
  then the induced current is excited vortex electric field,
appearing when the magnetic field.
           yup! That is why the  window generator overunity ......   on coils Lorenz and Lenz proceeds
     Vortical current  in the core axis
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on December 30, 2014, 09:16:26 PM
What exactly happened?

Peace

Well, it seems like I forgot one of the first law of electromagnetic induction. The wire must move 90 degrees and vertically toward the magnetic field not align with the magnetic filed. In the pic you can see that the side of solenoid with green circle around it is responsible for generating electricity and it is divided to tow sides:  The red and the pink circle. These two are in opposite magnetic fields and what ever they generate will be canceled by the other one, thus no current will flow through the solenoid... And I also did a test and no current was generated which made me kind of sad but its always good to find out ones mistakes ;) But this doesn't mean we can't get around Lenz's law. This was just one of the ideas, there are many more. I'm working on one right now ^_^


Best Regards
Sam
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: NoBull on December 31, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
Well, there is nothing long with failure as long as you learn from it and don't repeat it.
For the future, remember your results and point them out to another member that is making the same error.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on December 31, 2014, 08:30:06 PM
Sam,


ok, thank you. Basicly, it forces the electrons to one side of the coil, but not out of the coil. Nevertheless, we came to some interesting observations in this thread. Good luck with your new idea!


Boris,


thanks for the information.


Happy New Year to all of You.

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: life is illusion on January 02, 2015, 03:08:22 PM
Sam,

ok, thank you. Basicly, it forces the electrons to one side of the coil, but not out of the coil. Nevertheless, we came to some interesting observations in this thread. Good luck with your new idea!

Boris,

thanks for the information.


Happy New Year to all of You.

Dear dieter, I agree with you my friend, we did come to some interesting observations in this thread. Thank you and same goes to you :)

@ Nobull, yes my firend, that is very true and for sure I will do that :)

@ Boris, thanks for sharing that info my friend, I appreciate it :)

Happy new year to you all and good luck experimenting :) I hope in year 2015 we could break some thermodynamic laws together because they are for heat transfer systems and don't belong to the world of electromagnetism ;)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: VMP100 on June 27, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
Hey guys how are you all doing? Has any of you tried something new with the Lenz free generator?

I am thinking of building a small one, I came across this concept:
http://itawk.com/cgi-bin/myCMS.cgi?page=lenzless_generator_proof_of_concept (http://itawk.com/cgi-bin/myCMS.cgi?page=lenzless_generator_proof_of_concept)

Would you say that it is a good design to start with or should I change something?

VMP

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on June 27, 2016, 10:36:49 PM
I didn't understand the principle, maybe I should try harder ("the men who are staring at schematics"...).

Would be useful to have some explanation of the essential features and  how it is diffrent.

BTW. yesterday I uploaded a paper about a lenzless method based on the reverse lorentz force anomaly, this you may find intetesting to read. (Files section of this site).
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: VMP100 on June 27, 2016, 10:57:42 PM
Hey there Dieter!

I think we should just try to build it and test it instead of trying to understand it :-)

Found the file let me read it.

Best,
VMP
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on June 29, 2016, 04:34:24 AM
You're right! I think it was Einstein who said "50% is theory and 50% is experiment."
And Richard Feynman wrote a half a page of text to express: if the experiment doesn't validate the theory then the theory is wrong.

I find it extremly entertaining to see those highly educated, established people, having to discuss this question. Something that even a chimp understands immediately.

Well, nothing against Feynman, he just pointed out that some of his collegues would refuse to drop a theory only because they loved it so much, despite the fact that the theory was experimentally debunked already.

Like eg. Relativity Theory which could not integrate / was incompatible with the already known quantum theory.

Yep, build it. At least, it's easy to test for "Lenz-Freedom": with a certain RPM, you measure how long it takes the rotor to stop, first with an open, unconnected coil, and then with a shortened coil. If these times are the same (provided the coil is quite effective in current generation in this setup), then it's Lenz-free.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: darediamond on June 29, 2016, 05:54:45 AM
Hi guys,


I'm glad to see something really productive being posted here.  I was thinking that rather building a completely different generator/motor that is lenz free,  it would be equally just as effective if we can attach a regular generator to a Bi-toroid transformer. The generator would not feel any more resistance under load than it would be without one. Of course, building a Bi-toroid transformer is difficult but easier than a completely new type of generator.


I do not think building a bitoroid track is hard if you are going to use powdered  carbonated iron, Resin and accelerator and catalyst.

Simply Get 5mm thick Veroo board or Plywood, Matt knife, Iron Ruler, Glue and with these items make a Splitted Mould which you would glue together and a Bobbing.

Most bitoroid Cores are Square in shape. So you just need to cut out the divide that Square into 2 when cutting making your mould. So this means you will have two separate c shapes cores which will be taped together after the whole assembling.


Madeo
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: dieter on June 30, 2016, 10:54:38 PM
That would require a functioning Thane Heins Bitorroid Transformer. Personally I haven't verified this principle, and what I've seen on tube etc. is contradicting.


Also, I am having problems with the principle because it expects the CEMF to take a path on which it will collide with an opposing flux (the other half of the CEMF). It may however be true that at a certain degree of saturation of the main core, the CEMF takes indeed the additional, outer path.


It's an interesting thought, but a lot of research work in the bitoroid business would have to be done beforehand.

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Here2njoy on July 01, 2016, 12:50:26 AM
Speaking of Thane Heins he has resurfaced with another Youtube site  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBslCeRonaXNJ0x_g_ZTEew

He seems to be posting a lot lately.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 11, 2016, 05:47:59 PM
Hi Dieter,


Here is my build of your first version:


The 'slugs' are cast iron, the magnets two 1/8th x 1 inch neos, the motion about 10 mm


The induced voltage is only 1.21 volts pk to pk


In the scope shot, channel A is a small air core coil to show normal induction (no slug) and to provide the trigger. note that normally the two channels would be 180 degrees out of phase but I have left one channel connected backwards to show the comparison better.


In channel A the peak voltage is when the magnet approaches the coil most closely.


In channel B the maximum voltage is when the slug approaches the coil/core. There is another peak when the slug approaches the magnet.


Unfortunately because of the large gaps the output is very feeble, to the point of being unusable as a practical device.


Four second video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQkmiot6_8w&feature=youtu.be


Ron





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 24, 2016, 12:17:02 AM
Well, version two on the test bed/.


Just in round numbers, output 2.36 watts, prime mover increased draw 2.4 watts
so no free lunch here, mind you that is very efficient.


In effect it is a variable reluctance generator


Test conditions:


1750 RPM, 8 laminated slugs 12,5mm by 25 mm dia. laminated core. 8.39 volts AC no load, 4.14 volts over 7.2 ohm load.


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on July 24, 2016, 03:50:58 AM
Well, version two on the test bed/.


Just in round numbers, output 2.36 watts, prime mover increased draw 2.4 watts
so no free lunch here, mind you that is very efficient.


In effect it is a variable reluctance generator


Test conditions:


1750 RPM, 8 laminated slugs 12,5mm by 25 mm dia. laminated core. 8.39 volts AC no load, 4.14 volts over 7.2 ohm load.


Ron

Ron

Are you saying the P/in was 2.4 watts to the prime mover,and output was 2.36 watts?-or are you saying the prime mover power/in went up a further 2.4 watts?

If the P/in total is 2.4 watt's,and the output is 2.36 watts,then i suggest you calculate the power being dissipated by the motor it self-as waste heat,and also take into account the power being dissipated as waste heat by the generating coil it self-not just the electrical power out from the generating coil-->this is something many fail to take into account when making P/out measurements.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 24, 2016, 04:52:40 AM
Ron

Are you saying the P/in was 2.4 watts to the prime mover,and output was 2.36 watts?-or are you saying the prime mover power/in went up a further 2.4 watts?

If the P/in total is 2.4 watt's,and the output is 2.36 watts,then i suggest you calculate the power being dissipated by the motor it self-as waste heat,and also take into account the power being dissipated as waste heat by the generating coil it self-not just the electrical power out from the generating coil-->this is something many fail to take into account when making P/out measurements.


Brad


Sorry I thought "increased draw" was clear?


P/in is 44.4 watts no load. Under load this increased to 46.8 watts


What I was indicating is this is not Lenz. free as  claimed


Thanks for the come back though!


Ron
[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on July 24, 2016, 05:12:49 AM

Sorry I thought "increased draw" was clear?


P/in is 44.4 watts no load. Under load this increased to 46.8 watts


What I was indicating is this is not Lenz. free as  claimed


Thanks for the come back though!


Ron
[size=78%] [/size]

Ah ok.

The thing most do not realize is that if there is no Lenz/lorentz force,then there is no generation of power.

You actually have to do the opposite,and increase the lorentz force,but at the same time,you have to configure the geometry of the generator correctly.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on July 24, 2016, 05:27:04 AM
Er___, seems I have heard this same thing someplace else.   Wonder where...?

 :)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on July 24, 2016, 07:06:07 AM
It all has to start simple and work towards what you really want:
http://stomp.space/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Mag-Sweep.mp4
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 24, 2016, 05:16:10 PM
Ah ok.

snip

You actually have to do the opposite,and increase the lorentz force,but at the same time,you have to configure the geometry of the generator correctly.


Brad


Brad, what configuration did you find that came closest to this?


This was just a little fill in project while I was waiting for turion to show us how he got 120 watts in and 800 watts out.


Thanks


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on July 25, 2016, 05:12:40 PM

Brad, what configuration did you find that came closest to this?


This was just a little fill in project while I was waiting for turion to show us how he got 120 watts in and 800 watts out.


Thanks


Ron

Some time back(years ago now) i made a device i called the L.A.G (lenz assisted generator).
Below is a picture of a larger version of that,that i am very close to finishing. There is 4600 turns of wire all up on that stator ::),and yes,it's messy and uneven--but it is only a proof of concept.
The larger version will be based on/around a 500 watt motor,and configured a little different.

When a load is placed on the two generating coils,it increases the magnetic field strength at the 4 poles. When this happens,you gain torque from the motor without any additional power being drawn from the source--in fact,my last model showed a large power decrease being drawn from the source,while an increase in both electrical and mechanical power was produced.

What i am basically doing,is using the increase in magnetic forces that would be seen in a transformer between the primary and secondary,when a load is placed on the secondary,and using those increasing magnetic forces to turn the permanent magnet rotor,where those permanent magnets-at the same time,induce a current in the generating coils,through the normal generating process.

When the primary coils switch on,the secondary coils(the generator coils) produce an apposing magnetic field to that of the primaries-at the pole pieces. This creates a bucking field,which pushes harder against the magnets on the rotor,and thus creates more torque from the motor,while dropping the input power down.

The switching is a push/pull switching arrangement,where for 1/4 of a cycle,the magnets are pulled toward the pole pieces,and the next 1/4,the magnets are pushed away from the pole pieces. This creates a very nice AC output from the generator coil's,that also includes a high voltage spike .

I just finished machining up the rotor tonight,so it's not to far away now from completion.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ALVARO_CS on July 25, 2016, 06:00:43 PM
I am modifying this old setup.
all 8 magnets N facing (bucking)

and I totally agree, Lenz assisting is the way, . . as much as possible  ;)
one voltage peak in between two peaks of current . . . what a challenge !!!

Alvaro
 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on July 25, 2016, 06:52:40 PM
Hi folks, Hi i-ron, in your last test, with the axial rotor, with slugs, is there a permanent magnet across from the generator coil.
If there is a permanent magnet and the slugs are closing the magnetic circuit between permanent magnet and coil/core, i would suggest it is possible, the slugs are saturating and causing a lentz effect.
The rotating ferromagnetic material, needs to be below saturation.
To allow any induction in generating coil, to cause the rotating slug to be attracted into the coil/core on approach.
I've built a test model, kind of similar to this, but different and it did not suffer any saturation issues.
peace love light
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 01:33:25 AM
Hi folks, Hi i-ron, in your last test, with the axial rotor, with slugs, is there a permanent magnet across from the generator coil.
If there is a permanent magnet and the slugs are closing the magnetic circuit between permanent magnet and coil/core, i would suggest it is possible, the slugs are saturating and causing a lentz effect.
The rotating ferromagnetic material, needs to be below saturation.
To allow any induction in generating coil, to cause the rotating slug to be attracted into the coil/core on approach.
I've built a test model, kind of similar to this, but different and it did not suffer any saturation issues.
peace love light


Hi Sky,


Yes there is a magnet there. This design is from Dieter's PDF, post #44, "Reverse Lorentz  Force Anomaly"


Thanks for the suggestion... I will investigate that


Ron


Quote page 3 of Dieter's PDF


Possible implementations
 As the iron body is basicly attracted by the permanent magnet, this gradient of force must be
 compensated by some kind of lever / counterforce system as described further below (Fig. 4).
 It is a fact that the maximum field strength will never be higher that the one with the fixed
 distance between coil and permanent magnet. This comparatively low output versus apparatus
 size ratio may be compensated by stronger permanent magnets, or by a feedback of the output
 into an electromagnet, such as in selfexciting generators, however, it demands for high
 induction, high precision and low friction design.
 To be discussed may be whether or not the reactive field of the coil reduces the attraction of
 the iron body by the permanent magnet while approaching (Fig. 0b), and reduces the repelling
 while being repelled (Fig. 0a).
 It may well be that the loss of attraction by the permanent magnet (caused by opposing domains
 in the iron body due to the opposing coil field) is compensated by the repelling force of the
 reactive coil field, but meanwhile there is already a current flow, basicly free of the Lenz law.
 Likewise, the iron body is more attracted by the permanent magnet when moving away from it
 because the field strength is amplified by the coil. But at the same time the iron body will be  attracted by the coil as well, so again the two additional forces cancel each other out, while
 there is actually a current flow.
 Compared to conventional induction, this is quite diffrent: in conventional induction the
 inducing magnet is repelled _only_ while approaching the coil, and it is attracted _only_ when
 moving away. Classic Lenz' law 1-0-1.
 Nevertheless, based on the possible selfcanceling features of the described additional forces,
 selfaccelleration probably may not occur. However, there is still power generation without the
 "brakeing", reactive Lorentz force, which by it's own is sensational and a violation of "the law".
 Rotating systems (Fig 1abcd, 2, 3) have been evaluated. While the Reverse Lorentz Force
 Anomaly was observed too, there are indications that the approximation of the iron body from
 the side may be complicating the interactions of attracting and repelling forces, making the
 design trickier. However, in close proximity, where field strengths are more significant, the
 anomaly was clearly observed.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 01:39:24 AM
Some time back(years ago now) i made a device i called the L.A.G (lenz assisted generator).
Below is a picture of a larger version of that,that i am very close to finishing. snip

I just finished machining up the rotor tonight,so it's not to far away now from completion.

Brad


Thanks Brad, it will be interesting to see how it performs.


Thanks for sharing your work in progress, what will the rotor look like?


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 01:42:45 AM
I am modifying this old setup.
all 8 magnets N facing (bucking)

and I totally agree, Lenz assisting is the way, . . as much as possible  ;)
one voltage peak in between two peaks of current . . . what a challenge !!!

Alvaro


Let us know how it runs.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 02:55:17 AM

I have receive more insight from the residue in the bottom of a coffee cup.

Regards




Erfinder, how can you say that? after he has told us so much about his generator?


It is the biggest he has ever built, he has a machinist friend that worked on it, he has it back now and has done a test and it uses more then it did before... I mean how much more can we ask for? LOL


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 06:05:24 PM
What you were told is useless.  Don't take my word for it.....do something with what you were told prove me wrong.

Regards


First of all you have to have a feeling for (English) humour. I realize that that might not translate well.


What I said was confirmation of your statement ...
Quote
I have receive more insight from the residue in the bottom of a coffee cup.[/size]
I found that very humorous! what I said was yes, he has given us nothing, the size etc was a parody


We are on the same page, laugh


Ron


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 26, 2016, 09:54:42 PM

My bad....I didn't realize you were having a bit of fun.  I take this stuff too serious, more serious than he does.

Regards


Not a problem. The problem is Dieter has turned into another Dave. He has put out an idea but has then gone quiet.


Did I understand the concept? probably not


Did I get the dimensions and proportions right? definitely not


Has he been of any help in correcting my misconceptions? no


Has Dave shown a working model? no


Has Dieter shown a working model? no


Can I continue with either project? no


Are both devices pie in the sky? YES


Back to my coffee for answers, LOL


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 27, 2016, 05:04:19 PM
...Have they presented any ideas on "where" we should be looking for the energy we seek, the real energy?  Big fat no there too......Time to clear your memory of all that junk, install a new operating system, and run towards your idea of truth and reality, better yours than someone elses.

Regards


AMEN!


Thanks


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on July 28, 2016, 02:53:02 PM

Thanks Brad, it will be interesting to see how it performs.


Thanks for sharing your work in progress, what will the rotor look like?


Ron

Ok,so i have given the L.A.G it's first run.
Below is a scope shot across each gen coil-blue trace is one gen coil,and yellow the other gen coil.
I have a 10 ohm load on each gen coil,and as expected,the motor speeds up under load--quite a bit more than i was expecting,along with a 50%+ drop in P/in

The output on the gen coils is being clamped ATM,by a 12 volt battery being used to arrest the BackEMF spike on the primary coils.

Will post more as i get all the circuit put together,and cleaned up.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on July 28, 2016, 04:57:50 PM
Ok,so i have given the L.A.G it's first run.
Below is a scope shot across each gen coil-blue trace is one gen coil,and yellow the other gen coil.
I have a 10 ohm load on each gen coil,and as expected,the motor speeds up under load--quite a bit more than i was expecting,along with a 50%+ drop in P/in

The output on the gen coils is being clamped ATM,by a 12 volt battery being used to arrest the BackEMF spike on the primary coils.

Will post more as i get all the circuit put together,and cleaned up.


Brad


Congratulations! That looks (and sounds) quite promising!  Two or four poles on the rotor? Much clearance?


Will be watching, thanks for sharing


Ron



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on July 29, 2016, 01:02:02 AM

Congratulations! That looks (and sounds) quite promising!  Two or four poles on the rotor? Much clearance?


Will be watching, thanks for sharing


Ron

There are 4 poles on the rotor-alternating pattern-as the scope shot reflects.
The clearance ATM between pole pieces and rotor magnets,is about 10mm-but still yet to fine tune that,as this was just a quick !throw the rotor on,and give it a spin! run.

Quick P/in-P/out measurements.

P/in= 24v @ 350mA
P/out-as per scope values=
 coil A= 6.6 VRMS over 10 ohm resistor
Coil B= 7 VRMS over 10 ohm resistor.
There is also a 12 volt battery being charged at the same time,but i did not calculate for that.
Even so,there is obviously a large measurement error there some where,and i will find out where it is over the weekend.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 06, 2016, 05:38:08 PM
It's been a few days, and as is usual, no one seems to give a damn about the real issue.  Why in the hell is an increase in inductive reactance being celebrated as a step in the right direction? 


This is complete and utter insanity, in a word, USELESS!  I mean no offense, however, it seems that the intelligence of those who do think is being challenged, and as such something must be said.  We are well aware of what governs consumption in motors....right?  Understanding that, when the consumption drops, we must refer back to that which governs consumption!  From here its clear that the application of load modifies the reactive cross section of the motor circuit, in this case is not so much an increase in inductance, but more like the voltage and its associated current which are induced in the generator winding proper, are of such a polarity and phase that it augments the motor CEMF, raising it, the mechanism for this augmentation is transformer action, transformer action in a circuit of poor geometric relation. 

In the end, the motors ability to limit its consumption has been amplified by a whopping 50%!  Lenz isn't helping you here, hes getting 50% more out of you, but who am I....you people can and will believe whatever you want. 


Regards


I was bring quiet because I was looking at JB's zero force motor... and didn't want anyone to find that out, lol


Ron


PS: do you have any models or drawings to illustrate your ideas?
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 06, 2016, 08:42:46 PM



About a month ago I uploaded a video demonstrating an unconventional means for generating acceleration under load.

regards


Is the video still up? do you have a link please?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Grumage on August 06, 2016, 09:19:10 PM

Is the video still up? do you have a link please?


Ron

Dear Ron.

Here you go.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOBNFgayaAc

Cheers Grum.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 06, 2016, 09:37:46 PM
Dear Ron.

Here you go.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOBNFgayaAc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOBNFgayaAc)

Cheers Grum.


Thanks Grum!


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 06, 2016, 09:53:58 PM

  This leads to an even deeper insight, namely the ability to view the coil as it is, specifically as a generator coil which is periodically biased so as to generate both a motoring force and self excitation.


Regards




OK, thanks to Grum I have seen the video.


But being thick, as usual, I have not understood the coil geometry nor how you are applying the short and to what?


Very nice build and well filmed incidentally.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 07, 2016, 11:10:35 AM
The demo was not an instructional video, it was not my intention to share the coil geometry, nor reveal specifics of what was being shorted.  The purpose was to demonstrate the effect of acceleration in an air core motor-generator of moderately low inductance and resistance.  A second video was shot demonstrating the exact same effect using a system of even lower inductance and resistance values, however, it was decided that one vague video was enough.
Regards
I still hope you'll reconsider your position on sharing your configuration details.
Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 07, 2016, 11:19:17 AM
snip...
But being thick, as usual, I have not understood the coil geometry nor how you are applying the short and to what?
snip..
Ron
Given that Erfinder has offered no operational information or details, you are no thicker than the rest of us non clairvoyants Ron.
Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 07, 2016, 01:41:52 PM
Given that Erfinder has offered no operational information or details, you are no thicker than the rest of us non clairvoyants Ron.
Cheers

Nor will you ever see such information ::)

Less talk,and more action,comes to mind.

Having an opinion on some one else's work is fine,but dose not hold much weight when you have nothing much to show your self.
Like the rest of us Hoptaod-->just  !guess! lol.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 07, 2016, 05:03:55 PM
Nor will you ever see such information ::)

Less talk,and more action,comes to mind.

Having an opinion on some one else's work is fine,but dose not hold much weight when you have nothing much to show your self.
Like the rest of us Hoptaod-->just  !guess! lol.


Brad


Ah, but it is good to see everyone posting in the spirit of camaraderie!


Being a recent forced retiree  of a certain "120 watts in and 800 watts out"  forum, I was trying to come up with a catchy name for this group?  LOL


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 08, 2016, 01:02:45 AM

Ah, but it is good to see everyone posting in the spirit of camaraderie!


Being a recent forced retiree  of a certain "120 watts in and 800 watts out"  forum, I was trying to come up with a catchy name for this group?  LOL


Ron

Ah-did that involve a UFO  :D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 08, 2016, 01:17:36 AM









 




Regards

Quote
I am in no hurry to share anything with you.  You got everyone thinking you got it all figured out anyway.  I am enjoying the sideline laughing my ass off at your conjecture.  The longer one reads your posts and views your presentations, and then does ones own homework, and compares what one learns from what one reads /views from you, the more one sees that you are just as lost today as you were when you first started....

The fact that i can nail it every time,in many different configurations says otherwise.
I know exactly what is happening,and can build the device to make use of this effect.

Quote
That one vague video of mine reveals more about what can be done, and the path which should be taken than your LAG, a title which has no justification, ever will. The thing I get the biggest kick out of is recognizing that you have no idea where the power you are desperately seeking is supposed to be coming from.  Its depressing watching you struggle with the concepts surrounding the acceleration concept, its even more depressing watching you drag the gullible from experiment to experiment and then dropping them off there, leaving them with the same questions that they started with.  If this weren't enough, the constant bitching and complaining and whining has literally stripped you of all street credit.  The scope and meters are more important than the ideas, and anyone who thinks opposite is an idiot?  I am fed the fuck up with all this, your term RUBBISH, and I am not alone, but the others will not voice their opinion, oh well....some one has to say something.

Sorry Erfinder,but you are only fooling your self. That last video of yours shows nothing at all--nothing. No power measurements,no explanation of the configuration-nothing,and yet you think it shows us everything we need to know  :o

Quote
And all this from a guy who has yet to graduate from the SG circuit....This from a guy who has replicated every promising pulse motor concept, making it your business to show that the person you are replicating doesn't know what hes doing.  You sir don't know what you're doing, but you like to lead others to believe you do, fine and dandy, gonna need to draw out a map for all those garden paths you've led folk down.  One of my favorite fuck ups of yours pertains to the Zero Force Motor, I thought it was really amusing how you went out of your way to suggest that your misnamed concept is superior to that concept, its not, and you would know this had you done your homework on the subject, the concept and the associated principles, known and unknown to the public are old.  The LAG is an abomination, a sick joke being played on the gullible, and a slap in the face to all who paved the way, you would be wise to review history.

A big opinion from some one so small,and i see yet another JB fanatic desperately clinging to the rubbish pile.

Perhaps you would like to put your theory to the test,and take me on in a build off?--put your money where your mouth is ;)
Perhaps you put your little motor that we got to see in your latest video-->or should i say-only video of late,up against my latest creation--both of which shows this acceleration under load.
Electrical P/in,and mechanical,electrical and heat P/out.

What do you say Erfinder--you up for that ?

I always find it amusing to see people put my work down,but come to the crunch,they normally go running when it comes time to put there devices or theories up against mine.

Sorry Erfinder,but i have to laugh when you state that your video showed us so much,when in fact,it showed nothing at all.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 08, 2016, 09:04:10 AM
snip...
My method results in the "desired" effect, namely, consumption must increase!  This leads to your motor becoming stronger with increasing RPM versus weaker as is the case with the classical acceleration under load demonstrations.
snip...
Regards
This is the area of interest for me. THE TORQUE CURVE. Any electric motor that exhibits a high RPM torque and not just low end torque is perfect for electric motor racing. Consumption be damned! Especially with electric drag racing. Extra torque as the revs go up can mean the difference between win or bin.

Your statement 'motor becoming stronger with increasing RPM versus weaker', reflects the results of a round of experiments with air cores I did a few years ago. My approach was/is completely unlike yours I gather, hence my curiosity about the parameters of your machine is piqued.
While I acknowledge your right to keep your configuration to yourself, I still hope you'll reconsider sharing. This is after all, an open discussion forum.
Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 08, 2016, 11:53:15 AM
Consumption be damned! Especially with electric drag racing. Extra torque as the revs go up can mean the difference between win or bin.

Your statement 'motor becoming stronger with increasing RPM versus weaker', reflects the results of a round of experiments with air cores I did a few years ago. My approach was/is completely unlike yours I gather, hence my curiosity about the parameters of your machine is piqued.
While I acknowledge your right to keep your configuration to yourself, I still hope you'll reconsider sharing. This is after all, an open discussion forum.
Cheers

Quote
My method results in the "desired" effect, namely, consumption must increase!  This leads to your motor becoming stronger with increasing RPM versus weaker as is the case with the classical acceleration under load demonstrations.
snip...
Regards

And mine decreases the required P/in,but increase the torque with a gain in RPM.

As i stated before,the lorentz force must be increased-not decreased as many believe.

Quote
This is the area of interest for me. THE TORQUE CURVE. Any electric motor that exhibits a high RPM torque and not just low end torque is perfect for electric motor racing.

In order to do this,you must maintain current flow value throughout the RPM range,without having to increase the voltage.
This is what i have achieved with the L.A.G. Current value is maintained by increasing (what most refer to here as) Lenz,not decreasing !!Lenz!!.
Lenz is a law,and so using lorentz force is more applicable here.

It is a miss-belief that in order to gain acceleration under load,you must decrease !Lenz!,when in fact,to maintain current flow,while your electric motor still acts as a generator also,is to increase the lorentz force--and there is only one way to do that,and it is opposite to what others are trying to do.

Below are two video's where my research into this !speed up under load! started.
The first one shows not only a gain in torque,but a decrease in power consumption also.
The second video shows the RT up against an !off the shelf! motor,in way of a house fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6xRcSkPYn4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szpJ97M58G4


Some of us talk,and some of us do.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 08, 2016, 02:42:26 PM
Brad
I'm aware of your RT work Brad. However, in this instance, I am more curious about Erfinders AIR core configuration.
Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 08, 2016, 04:00:25 PM

That's funny....







Regards

Quote
Brad would have everyone's attention, maybe even mine if he finished what he started, he won't.....so hes no better than he says I am.

What you mean to say is-i am un aware if Brad has finished what he started.
Just because you cannot see something,dosnt mean it's not there.

OU is not the only forum i am on,and there is another very few people know of,and not all is found on youtube  ;D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 08, 2016, 04:01:33 PM
I'm aware of your RT work Brad. However, in this instance, I am more curious about Erfinders AIR core configuration.
Cheers

No problem hoptaod,i hope Erfinder can help you out.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 08, 2016, 09:40:16 PM



For those interested in the Zero force Motor


Ron


https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 08, 2016, 11:55:00 PM
And mine decreases the required P/in,but increase the torque with a gain in RPM.

As i stated before,the lorentz force must be increased-not decreased as many believe.

In order to do this,you must maintain current flow value throughout the RPM range,without having to increase the voltage.
This is what i have achieved with the L.A.G. Current value is maintained by increasing (what most refer to here as) Lenz,not decreasing !!Lenz!!.
Lenz is a law,and so using lorentz force is more applicable here.

It is a miss-belief that in order to gain acceleration under load,you must decrease !Lenz!,when in fact,to maintain current flow,while your electric motor still acts as a generator also,is to increase the lorentz force--and there is only one way to do that,and it is opposite to what others are trying to do.

Below are two video's where my research into this !speed up under load! started.
The first one shows not only a gain in torque,but a decrease in power consumption also.
The second video shows the RT up against an !off the shelf! motor,in way of a house fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6xRcSkPYn4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szpJ97M58G4


Some of us talk,and some of us do.

Brad



@Brad - The "Lorentz Force" may not be clear to many, as it is the total Force (F) exerted on a Charge (e) when moving with Velocity (v) in a Magnetic Field (B) - See Below Image.

See:  Lorentz  force (http://www.ncert.nic.in/html/learning_basket/electricity/electricity/effects_of_current/lorentz_force.htm)

I agree with what you’re saying, and yes it is a case of Increasing and not decreasing the Forces we are working with. In the immediate localised area.

Decreasing is specifically meant in a context, from Output to Input, not in the total System. Which is what the RT shows as we all know!

@All:
Anytime Electromagnetic Induction Occurs, there is a High Stress Area between the Source (Primary) and the Destination (Secondary), the same is true between any array of Coils that Electromagnetic Induction occurs between. It is true that any Magnetic Field Changing in Time can invoke Electromagnetic Induction!!! Weather this Magnetic Field be the 1st or the 7th…

Count all the Fields in your device, understand each one and where it is coming from! Understand that each Magnetic Field changing in Time can be the Source for Electromagnetic Induction again, and the chain goes on…



   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 09, 2016, 12:27:37 AM


What I mean is exactly what I said!


Regarding your RT, I'm not looking.....because I am not interested.  I am just voicing what I pick out of the ether chatter......
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 09, 2016, 01:13:58 AM




Some names here on this forum I remember from many years ago - All of which have made nearly zero progress.


You all should take an opportunity to learn from the ones that have very clearly shown so very much more than you could ever achieve! Listen, study, learn, ask questions, and most of all break the mould, learn something of value and loose the Sausage Science BS that fills the minds of the weak minded designed to keep you all breast fed...

Brad (Tinman) and Graham Gunderson have given you all, the best demonstrations in perhaps the last 20 odd years... Demonstrations that show you very clearly they have Hard Real Working Science that can right now change the world if it wasn’t for the Blind Arrogance, BS Sausage Science that fills your minds!!!

Some will never learn, some might, but this world desperately needs this, we have needed it for years now.  Decades!!!

Be part of the future!!! Not a burden of History!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on August 09, 2016, 05:25:10 PM



   Well you certainly hit a few nails on the head there Erfinder!!
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 09, 2016, 10:39:48 PM


You have nothing worth looking at, everything you vomit out can be found online somewhere....sooo, I am not listening to you.  Do yourself a favor, demonstrate "self assisted oscillation". You claim you have but those who know know you haven't.  You don't have an original bone in your body, even your quotes are copy and paste.....what can anyone expect to learn from a professional and prolific plagiarist....your guess is as good as anyone's.


Brad hasn't given anyone a damn thing, other than a few hundred ways one should not go about doing things, oh and a few entertaining exchanges, where he gets his ass handed to him. You really should refrain from brown nosing Graham Gunderson.  Wait that's not brown nosing, you are trying to form a symbiotic relation with him, parasite.....Fucking conformist.  Your idea of learning can be equated with accepting the brainwashing.  You really think you are informing anyone of anything that isn't already being forced on them?  Do you really think everyone wants or is even interested in the phantoms you chase, partnered output coils....moron!?   Yes that was a fat dump on your legacy.... You claim to know, but have shit to show for what you know.  Your example that you got it right is to hijack someone else's work, saw you do this with Brad, and now you are doing it with Graham, dusch bag....  You sound like a science teacher, who knows the laws but cant do shit with them.  Ah but you do find those few whom you think have done something with them.  Graham....maybe.....Brad.....fail....yourself....omg...not just no...no no no!


The world desperately needs to learn how to look within to their creative side for answers, that's what inspired the damn books and the laws they contain ass clown!  Laws are only laws because we are to fucking stupid to make new ones, preoccupation with crossing t's and dotting i's has that effect on the weak!  You are so busy looking at the complex that you miss the simple, this happens to all wannabe know it all's, myself included.  You are hopelessly fucked, where as I've found what I am looking for.  So Chris....in conclusion, be fucked!




Regards





Erfinder, Potty Mouth!!!

I think your response is very professional! Very well worded! Clearly you’re a valuable member of this forum!

Nice work, keep up your showmanship, your gentlemanly display of professionalism!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



P.S: I believe a Team Effort is necessary to bring to the world, that, that, the world has not been able to accept to date, it is clear you don’t think the same, I don’t hold that against you, it’s clear from your videos you have a lot to hide, showing that you’re not into Team Work, instead you wish for Glory and Worship from your peers. When people connect the dots, they will see that my references to others work is very clearly showing more than one point of view that has merit with the topic. I give others credit for their work, clearly you have something to hide, is it someone else’s work you’re hiding?







Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 09, 2016, 10:44:01 PM


   Well you certainly hit a few nails on the head there Erfinder!!





Minnie, Thats about all Erfinder has done!!! Exactly!!!

You too hit a few Nails on the Head!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on August 09, 2016, 11:51:36 PM



 Quantum electrodynamics "The Jewel of physics", quote from Richard Feynman.
        John.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 10, 2016, 12:10:05 AM


 Quantum electrodynamics "The Jewel of physics", quote from Richard Feynman.
        John.



Richard Fenyman was key in the formation of Quantum electrodynamics as we know it today. He stated many times:


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 10, 2016, 12:16:36 AM


 Quantum electrodynamics "The Jewel of physics", quote from Richard Feynman.
        John.





It is very clear, Richard Feynman was great because he accepted the simple fact:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dave45 on August 10, 2016, 12:27:16 AM
Lol this forum never changes.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 10, 2016, 01:12:40 AM


You have nothing worth looking at, everything you vomit out can be found online somewhere....sooo, I am not listening to you.  Do yourself a favor, demonstrate "self assisted oscillation". You claim you have but those who know know you haven't.  You don't have an original bone in your body, even your quotes are copy and paste.....what can anyone expect to learn from a professional and prolific plagiarist....your guess is as good as anyone's.


Brad hasn't given anyone a damn thing, other than a few hundred ways one should not go about doing things, oh and a few entertaining exchanges, where he gets his ass handed to him. You really should refrain from brown nosing Graham Gunderson.  Wait that's not brown nosing, you are trying to form a symbiotic relation with him, parasite.....Fucking conformist.  Your idea of learning can be equated with accepting the brainwashing.  You really think you are informing anyone of anything that isn't already being forced on them?  Do you really think everyone wants or is even interested in the phantoms you chase, partnered output coils....moron!?   Yes that was a fat dump on your legacy.... You claim to know, but have shit to show for what you know.  Your example that you got it right is to hijack someone else's work, saw you do this with Brad, and now you are doing it with Graham, dusch bag....  You sound like a science teacher, who knows the laws but cant do shit with them.  Ah but you do find those few whom you think have done something with them.  Graham....maybe.....Brad.....fail....yourself....omg...not just no...no no no!


The world desperately needs to learn how to look within to their creative side for answers, that's what inspired the damn books and the laws they contain ass clown!  Laws are only laws because we are to fucking stupid to make new ones, preoccupation with crossing t's and dotting i's has that effect on the weak!  You are so busy looking at the complex that you miss the simple, this happens to all wannabe know it all's, myself included.  You are hopelessly fucked, where as I've found what I am looking for.  So Chris....in conclusion, be fucked!




Regards

More dribble from some one that is all words,and has nothing to show.

Time after time we see you post endless crap,trying to make your self sound like some sort of masiha of induction,but actually have no clue as to what your talking about.

You post 1 video that shows nothing,and you think you have solved the worlds problems.
Fact is-like so many before you,your a coward--a clown with a big mouth that shoots everyone down,but wouldnt know shit from clay if you were standing in it.

I see you also have avoided taking me on--putting any of your devices up against mine,but still happy to mouth off at all i have done-->pathetic little weasel comes to mind.

Fact is,Chris would -and has-run rings around you in the subject matter,and most of what you have to say is garbage,and most of what you show is-er,well you havnt actually shown anything at all in the past years you have been at this-->your still as lost as you were 5 years ago.

Now,go and take your med's,and try to put something together that is worth while looking at.



Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 10, 2016, 01:25:16 AM


For those interested in the Zero force Motor


Ron


https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM

Nice video Ron,but fact is,many here have been using coils in this manor for years,and the zero force motor is nothing special,and uses the coils magnetic field in the very same way a PM DC motor dose,and has been doing for over 50 years--but fun to mess around with.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 10, 2016, 03:07:21 AM
Nice video Ron,but fact is,many here have been using coils in this manor for years,and the zero force motor is nothing special,and uses the coils magnetic field in the very same way a PM DC motor dose,and has been doing for over 50 years--but fun to mess around with.


Brad


Thanks Brad,  just working towards a working model, so nice to understand what it is that is taking place before I commit to metal and plastic.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 10, 2016, 05:52:44 AM

Thanks Brad,  just working towards a working model, so nice to understand what it is that is taking place before I commit to metal and plastic.


Ron

One thing to remember,the center of either a PM or an electromagnet that some mistakenly refer to as the blotch wall,and being the neutral or weakest part or area of weakest magnetic field strenght,is actually not a blotch wall ,and is actually the point of the greatest field strength,which includes the greatest electric field where an electromagnet is concerned.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on August 10, 2016, 10:09:50 AM



   How can one delay or alter that which is instantaneous?
                John.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 10, 2016, 11:29:52 AM


   How can one delay or alter that which is instantaneous?
                John.

Nothing is delayed.
!Delaying Lenz! as they say,is not what is happening with the !speed up under load! saga.

This !speed up under load! is a misconception.
The load is already on the rotor as soon as the coil and core material is present/or in position to that of the rotor. When a load is placed on the generating coil,eddy currents that are already flowing within the coil and core material,are some what !relieved! you might say. So the load on the rotor when the coil is open,is the generation of eddy currents and that results in heat. You place a load on the coil,and the eddy current value is reduced,and there for the waste heat is also reduced-->you are turning waste heat into electrical energy when you place a load on the coil.

There is no magic in the !speed up under load! effect-->this also applies to air core coils of low inductance values.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 10, 2016, 06:55:20 PM
@tinman
Quote
One thing to remember,the center of either a PM or an electromagnet that some mistakenly refer to as the blotch wall,and being the neutral or weakest part or area of weakest magnetic field strenght,is actually not a blotch wall ,and is actually the point of the greatest field strength,which includes the greatest electric field where an electromagnet is concerned.

Actually no, as I have measured and mapped the magnetic fields with sensitive hall effect magnetometer arrays which prove otherwise. We could ask a simple question, when two opposite conditions come together what do you get... ambient conditions. Not unlike positive and negative charge coming together to negate each others external field, not unlike a positive air pressure and a negative air pressure mixing to become no air pressure. I'm really not sure how anything could be more blatantly obvious because we see these effects all around us everywhere every single minute of every day. 

Do you have proof to justify your obviously false claim?.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2016, 07:22:24 PM
There is no Bloch wall in the center of a bar magnet.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on August 10, 2016, 08:44:55 PM



  Bit harsh,your treatment of the tinman Erfinder?
           John.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 10, 2016, 09:05:59 PM
Maybe a story might help, a long time ago in a land far away a man named Earnshaw developed a theorem. Earnshaw's theorem and he stated that "a collection of point charges cannot be maintained in a stable stationary equilibrium configuration solely by the electrostatic interaction of the charges". He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner. Some people believed Earnshaws theorem was an irrefutable law which had now been broken while some experts proclaimed the law was not broken. It was not broken because an extra force was present, the centrifugal force of the spinning top was present balancing the magnet and Earnshaws supposed law does not actually include extra forces only free floating charges and magnets. Thus a theorem or law may seem to always apply but only so long as the conditions applicable to the law do not change in any way.

This is very similar to the story of Lenz Law which states that "the current induced in a circuit due to a change or a motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion". Think about that... what does the Law actually say?. A changing magnetic field will induce a current in a circuit creating a second magnetic field which will oppose the first magnetic field change. It does not actually mention the source of the inducing magnetic field being opposed only the magnetic field itself being opposed. Thus a magnetic field source could create a rapidly changing magnetic field impulse then turn off before the field has had time to induce a current in the external circuit and the field source cannot be effected and Lenz Law has not been violated yet the external circuit would be induced by the field change after the source has turned off. Anything less would imply the field change has induced the target before it has actually reached the target which is absurd.

This is the problem with believing things which are not true and reading things into something which was never there nor implied to be there. Lenz said only the "inducing field" is opposed by the induced field no more no less.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 10, 2016, 09:38:03 PM
@Erfinder
Quote
I get slammed by these two, and no one sheds a tear....to answer your question.....no....

I have found truth generally comes to light by asking the right questions which may eventually reveal the truth. One cannot fight a pack of hyenas and win, you dig a pit, bait them and let the truth of their own nature produce the desired result.

I had an interesting question the other day, a friend said "thank God". I then said "oh you believe in God?"...*as everyone nearby who knows me rolled their eye's*. I then asked, "if you believe in a God because you cannot believe the universe always was and must have been created then what created God?". Personally, my not understanding why the universe exists seems more believable to me than believing a God created from nothing created the universe from nothing because there are many things I do not understand. However something from apparently nothing such as Gods, the Universe and Energy is generally where I draw the line.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on August 10, 2016, 09:41:56 PM
Twelve coils in series , the field has to propagate in those windings, Shut the first one off before it gets to number twelve, Or better yet, shut it off and fire it before the propagation hits twelve.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 11, 2016, 12:45:50 AM
@tinman
Actually no, as I have measured and mapped the magnetic fields with sensitive hall effect magnetometer arrays which prove otherwise. We could ask a simple question, when two opposite conditions come together what do you get... ambient conditions. Not unlike positive and negative charge coming together to negate each others external field, not unlike a positive air pressure and a negative air pressure mixing to become no air pressure. I'm really not sure how anything could be more blatantly obvious because we see these effects all around us everywhere every single minute of every day. 

Do you have proof to justify your obviously false claim?.

AC

Yes i do AC,and it is obvious that you must have mapped the field incorrectly.
I am also sure you have seen my test that i carried out,and you will also find that people of the likes of Poynt agree with me-perhaps he has time to answer this question as well.

Like i said,the center of either an electromagnet or PM being of the weakest field,fools many people,as it is actually the strongest part of the field.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 11, 2016, 12:47:06 AM


  Bit harsh,your treatment of the tinman Erfinder?
           John.

Thats not harsh minnie,it's only baby talk to me.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 11, 2016, 12:50:18 AM



I get slammed by these two, and no one sheds a tear....to answer your question.....no....




Regards

Time to man up baby boy,you started your arrogant bullshit at post 75--so suck it up princes.
If you cant take the heat,get out of the fire.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 01:22:06 AM

You into dribble?


You aren't qualified to see my work.



masiha....man I love it when you do this blatantly ignorant shit....HELLO spell check, use it!  The word is "messiah".  Yes, I was sent here to save people from the likes of you and copy paste junkie.  I know what I'm talking about, and it matters little to me that you don't. 



I still say my video has more content than the 300 or so videos you've posted.  Many of them painfully long, too long, as you drag your ass through the scope and meter connections, you know the general ass kissing routine, police yourself bitch.  Keep those ducks in  line, because its so much more important to practice good measurement than it is to present a genuine original idea.

Me a coward (roar)?  No prob, I'm still two up on you, and your side kick copy paste.....I got a heart, and a brain....you too lack both....



Ah you noticed...I was hoping you noticed.  I am not interested in comparing apples and oranges.  We aren't on the same page, we aren't on the same planet. You don't have anything of interest, in a word, you're "lame"...  weasels are clever....lame is just pathetic.....



This devotion you too share is amazing, the resident copy paste junkie couldn't find his way into a moist slit even if he possessed the sense of smell of a blood hound, but you keep kissing his ass, you do that well.  You two are so damn smart (not) but between the two of you one can't find an original thought.  You can call what I say garbage, I take it as a compliment from the resident illiterate.  I read somewhere, or saw it in a movie not sure which, anyway....  "For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was!"  How's that for a  quote copy paste...not a question....Hell yeah, I am good and lost, got no strings on me.....bitch...


Not into medication, but I will have a beer.....




cheers clowns...



Erfinder - Inventor - NOT!!!

You’re the new MileHigh obviously!!!

He was banned for his idiocies, maybe you should learn from his mistakes?

You keep confusing Team Work with other less delightful procedures that your little mind seems to be affixed on, isn’t that sad, and quite disgusting!!!

Right now, your behaviour shows you are very clearly grasping, grasping for something of value because you obviously know inside yourself that what you’ve shown is nothing new and nothing of value to so many others that have surpassed you!!!

I think many will admit that they still have so much to learn, I do, I have a lot to learn, not ashamed to admit it, I bet many others that have surpassed you will also admit the same!

Sadly, you think you have already made it, achieved ultimate glory, are the Emperor of Free Energy, an Aether Tapper, or whatever fancy weirdo non-sense name you choose to put to the “Invented” term you come up with.. Sadly this is all you have "Invented" - Non-sense terms that make no sense to the rest or the world.

If you have not heard, progress is being made, it’s really your choice if you want to be part of it. Currently many would prefer not to have your Attitude present!

A friend of mine said to me, whom I deeply respect:
Quote

I applaud you for your perseverance and ability to deal with a bunch of  slow learners !  I would have given up long ago.


Showing respect to any and all around you is common courtesy, whether they be more advanced or less advanced than you, again something that can be learned in life if one chooses…


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 11, 2016, 01:29:24 AM

You into dribble?






 
















Not into medication, but I will have a beer.....




cheers clowns...

Quote
masiha....man I love it when you do this blatantly ignorant shit....HELLO spell check, use it!  The word is "messiah".


 Masiha-->, gives you the desire to understand and help others with their problems but, at the same time, you can become too involved and worrying as the result.
 ::)

Quote
This devotion you too share is amazing, the resident copy paste junkie couldn't find his way into a moist slit even if he possessed the sense of smell of a blood hound, but you keep kissing his ass, you do that well.  You two are so damn smart (not) but between the two of you one can't find an original thought.  You can call what I say garbage, I take it as a compliment from the resident illiterate.  I read somewhere, or saw it in a movie not sure which, anyway....  "For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was!"  How's that for a  quote copy paste...not a question....Hell yeah, I am good and lost, got no strings on me.....bitch...


Lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeZ_F1op9N8&index=7&list=FLsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w

Quote
Me a coward (roar)?  No prob, I'm still two up on you, and your side kick copy paste.....I got a heart, and a brain....you too lack both....

You have no heart,only the desire to shoot down those that dont agree with you,and if you had half a brain,you'd be dangerous.

Quote
Ah you noticed...I was hoping you noticed.  I am not interested in comparing apples and oranges.  We aren't on the same page, we aren't on the same planet. You don't have anything of interest, in a word, you're "lame"...  weasels are clever....lame is just pathetic.....

Well,we have all seen what you have--oh wait,no we havnt  ::)
The only reason we wont see anything from you,is because you know i could explain it away in a heartbeat,and it will conform to known science. That would mean you have nothing special to show-as you claim to have-->and that would not be good for you ;)

Quote
You aren't qualified to see my work.

Seen your work--dont need to be qualified to explain it.
The problem you have,is you do not understand your own work--that has always been your downfall.

 
Quote
Yes, I was sent here to save people from the likes of you and copy paste junkie.  I know what I'm talking about, and it matters little to me that you don't.

What i see is a case of-->if you cant dazzle them with brilliance,then baffle them with bullshit. ;)

Quote
I still say my video has more content than the 300 or so videos you've posted.  Many of them painfully long, too long, as you drag your ass through the scope and meter connections, you know the general ass kissing routine, police yourself bitch.  Keep those ducks in  line, because its so much more important to practice good measurement than it is to present a genuine original idea.

Your video showed what? .
You have no original idea's,as all that you do has been done before--and there is nothing special or magical about it. It is only your lack of understanding that make's it special to you.

Quote
Yes, I was sent here to save people from the likes of you and copy paste junkie

And yet it is you that now has Hoptoad wasting his time on something that will achieve nothing--unless he wants a big bathroom heater.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 01:39:42 AM



I get slammed by these two, and no one sheds a tear....to answer your question.....no....




Regards



Perhaps you may see why I posted this, certainly it is not out of sympathy for infered treatment. For this you have bought on yourself from your own actions!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:25:32 AM
Maybe a story might help, a long time ago in a land far away a man named Earnshaw developed a theorem. Earnshaw's theorem and he stated that "a collection of point charges cannot be maintained in a stable stationary equilibrium configuration solely by the electrostatic interaction of the charges". He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner. Some people believed Earnshaws theorem was an irrefutable law which had now been broken while some experts proclaimed the law was not broken. It was not broken because an extra force was present, the centrifugal force of the spinning top was present balancing the magnet and Earnshaws supposed law does not actually include extra forces only free floating charges and magnets. Thus a theorem or law may seem to always apply but only so long as the conditions applicable to the law do not change in any way.

This is very similar to the story of Lenz Law which states that "the current induced in a circuit due to a change or a motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion". Think about that... what does the Law actually say?. A changing magnetic field will induce a current in a circuit creating a second magnetic field which will oppose the first magnetic field change. It does not actually mention the source of the inducing magnetic field being opposed only the magnetic field itself being opposed. Thus a magnetic field source could create a rapidly changing magnetic field impulse then turn off before the field has had time to induce a current in the external circuit and the field source cannot be effected and Lenz Law has not been violated yet the external circuit would be induced by the field change after the source has turned off. Anything less would imply the field change has induced the target before it has actually reached the target which is absurd.

This is the problem with believing things which are not true and reading things into something which was never there nor implied to be there. Lenz said only the "inducing field" is opposed by the induced field no more no less.




AC, this is a very clever post.

Any and every Induced EMF, no matter how many times an Induced EMF occurs, in a single System, has an Effect of the Source, does it not?

But, if the Source is no longer a part of the System, switched out, then the Source is no longer affected, as you say.

How long can a Magnetic Field be kept High after Switch out of the Source?

In a super conductor, indefinitely, for ever in our terms, no Source, but Magnetic Field stays High... Electron’s keep going and going and going…

So the Source can change. Not necessarily the Polarity, depending on point of View, but the Location in the system can very easily be changed. This can be done many ways. A common way is to short one coil… This I know you are very well aware of.

One point of view does not make for any proof, how you term:


He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner.



A Postulate, everyone agrees, with no proof…  Although most experiments might hold, who’s to say one wont. After all, Charges are already in constant motion, all having their own Centrifugal forces… Thus making it true that a simple Magnet, will Violate Earnshaw's theorem before this experiment was even proposed - Surely we agree on this point?

There in lays the very basis of how we currently understand the Magnetic Field.

I was surprised to read this post.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:39:02 AM
@Erfinder
I have found truth generally comes to light by asking the right questions which may eventually reveal the truth. One cannot fight a pack of hyenas and win, you dig a pit, bait them and let the truth of their own nature produce the desired result.

I had an interesting question the other day, a friend said "thank God". I then said "oh you believe in God?"...*as everyone nearby who knows me rolled their eye's*. I then asked, "if you believe in a God because you cannot believe the universe always was and must have been created then what created God?". Personally, my not understanding why the universe exists seems more believable to me than believing a God created from nothing created the universe from nothing because there are many things I do not understand. However something from apparently nothing such as Gods, the Universe and Energy is generally where I draw the line.

AC



Beliefs are often a causal effect of one or more turns of events. I believe Richard Feynman said it best:


Some of us do the best we can, some do not, but if we have a grounded basis to proceed with, then what follows can be examined with some certainty, no belief enters the picture!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 02:44:49 AM


 Masiha-->, gives you the desire to understand and help others with their problems but, at the same time, you can become too involved and worrying as the result.
 ::)


Lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeZ_F1op9N8&index=7&list=FLsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w

You have no heart,only the desire to shoot down those that dont agree with you,and if you had half a brain,you'd be dangerous.

Well,we have all seen what you have--oh wait,no we havnt  ::)
The only reason we wont see anything from you,is because you know i could explain it away in a heartbeat,and it will conform to known science. That would mean you have nothing special to show-as you claim to have-->and that would not be good for you ;)

Seen your work--dont need to be qualified to explain it.
The problem you have,is you do not understand your own work--that has always been your downfall.

 
What i see is a case of-->if you cant dazzle them with brilliance,then baffle them with bullshit. ;)

Your video showed what? .
You have no original idea's,as all that you do has been done before--and there is nothing special or magical about it. It is only your lack of understanding that make's it special to you.

And yet it is you that now has Hoptoad wasting his time on something that will achieve nothing--unless he wants a big bathroom heater.


Brad




Hahahaha - Classically Funny and so true!!!

Beautiful!!!

Avenged!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ramset on August 11, 2016, 03:24:08 AM
Just one comment
to my knowledge Milehigh is not banned , apparently Terms of use rules are being enforced ,and selective Moderation applied.
I know this moderation is annoying to Stefan as well as frustrating to members.

it would be better to stay within the agreed boundaries of the Forum rules.

respectfully

Chet
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 03:52:48 AM
Just one comment
to my knowledge Milehigh is not banned , apparently Terms of use rules are being enforced ,and selective Moderation applied.
I know this moderation is annoying to Stefan as well as frustrating to members.

it would be better to stay within the agreed boundaries of the Forum rules.

respectfully

Chet




Thanks Chet, for correcting me!

I am sorry, I did read somewhere that was the case, without having verified it. Apologies!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 06:17:57 AM

Maybe a story might help, a long time ago in a land far away a man named Earnshaw developed a theorem. Earnshaw's theorem and he stated that "a collection of point charges cannot be maintained in a stable stationary equilibrium configuration solely by the electrostatic interaction of the charges". He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner. Some people believed Earnshaws theorem was an irrefutable law which had now been broken while some experts proclaimed the law was not broken. It was not broken because an extra force was present, the centrifugal force of the spinning top was present balancing the magnet and Earnshaws supposed law does not actually include extra forces only free floating charges and magnets. Thus a theorem or law may seem to always apply but only so long as the conditions applicable to the law do not change in any way.

This is very similar to the story of Lenz Law which states that "the current induced in a circuit due to a change or a motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion". Think about that... what does the Law actually say?. A changing magnetic field will induce a current in a circuit creating a second magnetic field which will oppose the first magnetic field change. It does not actually mention the source of the inducing magnetic field being opposed only the magnetic field itself being opposed. Thus a magnetic field source could create a rapidly changing magnetic field impulse then turn off before the field has had time to induce a current in the external circuit and the field source cannot be effected and Lenz Law has not been violated yet the external circuit would be induced by the field change after the source has turned off. Anything less would imply the field change has induced the target before it has actually reached the target which is absurd.

This is the problem with believing things which are not true and reading things into something which was never there nor implied to be there. Lenz said only the "inducing field" is opposed by the induced field no more no less.




AC, this is a very clever post.

Any and every Induced EMF, no matter how many times an Induced EMF occurs, in a single System, has an Effect of the Source, does it not?

But, if the Source is no longer a part of the System, switched out, then the Source is no longer affected, as you say.

How long can a Magnetic Field be kept High after Switch out of the Source?

In a super conductor, indefinitely, for ever in our terms, no Source, but Magnetic Field stays High... Electron’s keep going and going and going…

So the Source can change. Not necessarily the Polarity, depending on point of View, but the Location in the system can very easily be changed. This can be done many ways. A common way is to short one coil… This I know you are very well aware of.

One point of view does not make for any proof, how you term:


He also believed this applied to magnetic fields and everyone agreed one cannot balance or levitate one magnet on another. Then one day a clever inventor stumbled onto the fact that if the levitating magnet was spun like a top that in fact it could levitate in a stable manner.



A Postulate, everyone agrees, with no proof…  Although most experiments might hold, who’s to say one wont. After all, Charges are already in constant motion, all having their own Centrifugal forces… Thus making it true that a simple Magnet, will Violate Earnshaw's theorem before this experiment was even proposed - Surely we agree on this point?

There in lays the very basis of how we currently understand the Magnetic Field.

I was surprised to read this post.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org







To iterate a little further, Electromagnetic Induction is a dependency process, for example:

   1: If there is No Voltage, there can be No Current.
   2: If there is No Current, there can be No Magnetic Field.
   3: If there is No Magnetic Field there can be No Electromagnetic Induction.

So, for Electromagnetic Induction to occur, there must be a Source of Magnetic Field, somewhere!!! Time rate of change is a requirement for the Voltage (EMF) Generation, NOT the Current, as mentioned above, the Current is dependent on the Voltage (along with Resistance)!!! It’s true, that any Coil that has a Voltage across it (Active Element due to Induction) will be able to supply a Current, regulated by Ohms Law, which will change in Time!!! This is equivalent to a Magnetic Field Changing in Time!!!

Thus any and All Magnetic Fields Changing in Time can be a Source of Electromagnetic Induction!!!

If this Source is equal in Magnitude in comparison to the originating Source, then there will be a net zero effect, or no Tertiary EMF can be "Generated". Thus timing of the Coil Interactions is critical. Capacitance can be employed to do this, or switching if you have the means. Coils can be arranged to also offset this timing.

I hope those that do not already know this will see the importance here!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 11, 2016, 06:36:30 AM
@tinman
Quote
Yes i do AC,and it is obvious that you must have mapped the field incorrectly.[/size]I am also sure you have seen my test that i carried out,and you will also find that people of the likes of Poynt agree with me-perhaps he has time to answer this question as well.Like i said,the center of either an electromagnet or PM being of the weakest field,fools many people,as it is actually the strongest part of the field.


Touché, I would be interested to hear how you conducted your test and it is important that the instrument used not be subject to magnetic induction. That is no iron and no magnetic materials which produce a secondary field influencing the results. This is why I use hall effect sensors exclusively which are mostly benign so far as any real influence on the field to be measured is concerned.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 11, 2016, 07:43:34 AM
@EmJunkie
Quote
To iterate a little further, Electromagnetic Induction is a dependency process, for example:[/size]   1: If there is No Voltage, there can be No Current.   2: If there is No Current, there can be No Magnetic Field.   3: If there is No Magnetic Field there can be No Electromagnetic Induction.


So, for Electromagnetic Induction to occur, there must be a Source of Magnetic Field, somewhere!!! Time rate of change is a requirement for the Voltage (EMF) Generation, NOT the Current, as mentioned above, the Current is dependent on the Voltage (along with Resistance)!!! It’s true, that any Coil that has a Voltage across it (Active Element due to Induction) will be able to supply a Current, regulated by Ohms Law, which will change in Time!!! This is equivalent to a Magnetic Field Changing in Time!!!Thus any and All Magnetic Fields Changing in Time can be a Source of Electromagnetic Induction!!!


Yes, a magnetic field change will produce Electro-Magnetic Induction and as Faraday said it does not matter how the change occurs only that it does. Which raises the question... how many ways could the magnetic field change occur and how many other ways are unknown to us?. In this respect we are only limited by our imagination and how we would conceive to invoke such a change.


For instance a solar flare occurs at the Sun and some ninety eight hours later we detect a magnetic field disturbance here on Earth... how does Lenz Law apply?. Obviously it's not like a magnet on a rotor inducing a current in a conductor which produces a magnetic field which opposes the magnetic field of the rotor. The disturbance travels through space ninety eight hours before it produces an effect here on Earth thus Lenz Law has limitations with respect to time and distance. It takes time for a cause to produce an effect and within this time frame we have options.


It is in these kinds of thought experiments that Lenz Law fails to hold relevance and as I said we are only limited by our imagination as to how we choose to solve these technical problems.


AC



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 07:51:59 AM
@EmJunkie

Yes, a magnetic field change will produce Electro-Magnetic Induction and as Faraday said it does not matter how the change occurs only that it does. Which raises the question... how many ways could the magnetic field change occur and how many other ways are unknown to us?. In this respect we are only limited by our imagination and how we would conceive to invoke such a change.


For instance a solar flare occurs at the Sun and some ninety eight hours later we detect a magnetic field disturbance here on Earth... how does Lenz Law apply?. Obviously it's not like a magnet on a rotor inducing a current in a conductor which produces a magnetic field which opposes the magnetic field of the rotor. The disturbance travels through space ninety eight hours before it produces an effect here on Earth thus Lenz Law has limitations with respect to time and distance. It takes time for a cause to produce an effect and within this time frame we have options.


It is in these kinds of thought experiments that Lenz Law fails to hold relevance and as I said we are only limited by our imagination as to how we choose to solve these technical problems.


AC



Active Imagination and Clever minds are the most powerfull thing we could ever study!!! It is amazing, not sure if you have read it, but for your perusal: Graham Gunderson's Energy conference presentation Most impressive and mysterious  (http://overunity.com/16724/graham-gundersons-energy-conference-presentation-most-impressive-and-mysterious/msg488484/#msg488484)



In 1859, the Earth suffered a rather frightning event.

The Carrington event of 1859 - the largest solar flare ever recorded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cNf8xK67JA)

The Sun, 149.6 million km's away from the Earth, had a coronal mass ejection (CME), this hit the Earth after 18 Hours.

When hitting the Earth, it sent the Telegraph Systems into complete dissaray. Setting fire to parts of it and destroying a great portion of it.

Do you think after 18 more hours the effects Lenz's Law reached the Sun?

Daniels Coils are very likely arranged to do something similar... Induction, via a small scale pulse in comparision, from the Motor and or the switch on event, the arrangement vs the frequency, probably could be calculated: 3×108 m/s divided by X Hz = X metres

0.02M between the two standalone Coils indicate a Frequency of about: 15000MHz or 15GHz

Not that I wish to attempt a replication, I leave that for others, but this is an example of how I try to use Diakoptics to see how something may work.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Exactly correct, I agree! Time and Space are related as anything that traverses space must take Time. The well known equation: Velocity = Time x Distance comes to mind! You know, months ago we here at this forum were not eveen discussing such topics, now we are not only discussing, we actually understand them!!!

In saying this, there is a difference between Near Field's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication) and Far Fields (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field). I know you already know this stuff.

This is such a step forward, its perhaps the most thrilling step forward I have ever experienced! Not because I know whats possible, because I can see what our wonderful future may hold!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Johan_1955 on August 11, 2016, 11:05:07 AM
Twelve coils in series , the field has to propagate in those windings, Shut the first one off before it gets to number twelve, Or better yet, shut it off and fire it before the propagation hits twelve.

Dear Shylo,

Thanks, best post in ages, Serie-Coil(Cavity)-Resonance.

Did mention the same before in other threads, JT-101, ............. !?

They don't read, the BATTLE seems to be more important, so adult ..... ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCduKbDuzmY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCduKbDuzmY)

Regards, Johan
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 11, 2016, 11:52:51 AM
@tinman

Touché, I would be interested to hear how you conducted your test and it is important that the instrument used not be subject to magnetic induction. That is no iron and no magnetic materials which produce a secondary field influencing the results. This is why I use hall effect sensors exclusively which are mostly benign so far as any real influence on the field to be measured is concerned.


AC

First up,what type of hall effect sensor did you use?

First simple test,one which im sure you have tried.
Take two magnets of same size and grade-lets say a couple of N52 neo rod magnets of size 1/2 inch diameter x 1 inch long. Join the two together-north to south. They have now become one magnet. You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now,is it.

Second test is with an electromagnet.
We take a long solenoid/coil-say 1 inch in diameter,and 4 inches long,and we use this as our primary. We then have a flat pancake type coil,that is say 1/4 inch thick,with ID just enough to slide over the primary coil,and an OD of say 2 1/2 inches. We now pulse a DC current,or apply an AC current to the primary. You will find that the secondary will produce the most power when placed in the center of the primary-not at either end where you think the magnetic field is strongest.
Once again,the magnetic(and electric field in this case),is strongest at the center of the electromagnet--not at the ends.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on August 11, 2016, 04:34:35 PM



 I would say that the strongest magnetic field would be at the poles.
 Once you try to part two magnets you've essentially got two
 individual magnets and hence the attraction will be greatest.
 The electric field,however,is quite different.
           John.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 11, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
@tinman
Quote
First up,what type of hall effect sensor did you use?

I use various analog hall effect sensor tied to this, https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/11225. The NI Labview setup allows me collect real sensor data, calibrate the sensors, apply any math functions I want and display the hard data in real time in multiple graphical formats. The NI labview site is here--http://www.ni.com/labview/why/. Note this is not a simulation nor is it speculation, this is scientific software used by real scientists for scientific research. Trust me... it will be the best $50 you ever spent on research and real data in indispensable. I will post a picture of my setup when I get home from work tonight.


Quote
First simple test,one which im sure you have tried.
Take two magnets of same size and grade-lets say a couple of N52 neo rod magnets of size 1/2 inch diameter x 1 inch long. Join the two together-north to south. They have now become one magnet. You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now,is it.

Fair enough, on your magnet the highest external field strength is not at the center between the N-S transition, it is not at the N or S pole face as one might expect but at the pole face corner where the face transitions to the side of the magnet. How do I know this?, because I mapped the field strength on every part of the magnet with a scientific instrument in real time.

Quote
Second test is with an electromagnet.
We take a long solenoid/coil-say 1 inch in diameter,and 4 inches long,and we use this as our primary. We then have a flat pancake type coil,that is say 1/4 inch thick,with ID just enough to slide over the primary coil,and an OD of say 2 1/2 inches. We now pulse a DC current,or apply an AC current to the primary. You will find that the secondary will produce the most power when placed in the center of the primary-not at either end where you think the magnetic field is strongest.
Once again,the magnetic(and electric field in this case),is strongest at the center of the electromagnet--not at the ends.

I would ask, what are you really measuring?. You are measuring the output voltage produced by the coil which is the result of mutual induction between the two coils and two distinct fields. Thus you are not actually measuring field strength at any given point per say but the efficiency of the mutual induction between the coils and core. You see this is why we must be very careful when considering what we are actually measuring in reality and what we think may be happening. As I said, you cannot accurately measure anything when the instrument used physically effects the measure.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: darediamond on August 11, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
You still need many rice to eat. boy!    ;D

Oh mine,.you are specially funny.

I can't stop laughing....
Gadem.."you still need many rice to eat boy" lol
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 11, 2016, 07:02:13 PM
@tinman
Quote
Take two magnets of same size and grade-lets say a couple of N52 neo rod magnets of size 1/2 inch diameter x 1 inch long. Join the two together-north to south. They have now become one magnet. You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now,is it.

I wanted to address this issue separately because there are many errors present. We should note that there is a difference between the field strength and the size of the field. For example when you joined your two N52 magnets they did not become one and the field density did not change. They are still N52 magnets having a known material field density however the volume of material has change increasing the size of the field present. You will note between the two joined magnets is a neutral zone and it will always be present at the pole interface unless the magnetic material is formed as one piece thus the two magnets are not one nor will they ever be one.

Concerning this statement--- "You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now".
Grab the ends of your car and try to pull it apart -- which is the weakest part of your car and which is the strongest part?. Of course this is an absurd statement however this is exactly what your statement is suggesting. That somehow we could magically determine the greatest strength in the whole of the system simply by measuring a simple force between two individual parts in the system. The greatest field strength is not determined by measuring a simple force it is determined by measuring all the forces or fields present and determining which is the greatest and where it is the greatest.

Next is a simple error in logic most everyone seems to be making concerning the neutral space between magnetic poles. Now let's say we have called one end of the magnetic field a North polarity (N) and the other end of the magnetic field a South polarity (S). That is one end of the external magnetic field is N and the other end of the external magnetic field is S. Now if one end is N and the other is S then as we move down the magnet the field must obviously transition from N to S. So what happens at the midpoint where N becomes S?, a condition deemed N has become an equal yet opposite condition known as S. You see what many are suggesting is that one condition (N) has miraculously become an opposite condition (S) without a transition within the space between the two conditions.

Obviously one condition cannot just magically become another opposite condition without a transition from one to the other because that would be completely absurd yet that is what you are implying isn't it?. Something (N) has become something else (S) which is different however apparently there is no point at which this transition from N to S can take place anywhere... Do you think this makes sense? because it makes absolutely no sense to me and defies pretty much all the known laws of physics.

So my question is very simple... if the external magnetic field does in fact change from North polarity to South polarity then where do you think it changes?, at what specific point does the change from N to S occur?.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 11, 2016, 11:22:01 PM
@tinman
I wanted to address this issue separately because there are many errors present. We should note that there is a difference between the field strength and the size of the field. For example when you joined your two N52 magnets they did not become one and the field density did not change. They are still N52 magnets having a known material field density however the volume of material has change increasing the size of the field present. You will note between the two joined magnets is a neutral zone and it will always be present at the pole interface unless the magnetic material is formed as one piece thus the two magnets are not one nor will they ever be one.

Concerning this statement--- "You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now".
Grab the ends of your car and try to pull it apart -- which is the weakest part of your car and which is the strongest part?. Of course this is an absurd statement however this is exactly what your statement is suggesting. That somehow we could magically determine the greatest strength in the whole of the system simply by measuring a simple force between two individual parts in the system. The greatest field strength is not determined by measuring a simple force it is determined by measuring all the forces or fields present and determining which is the greatest and where it is the greatest.

Next is a simple error in logic most everyone seems to be making concerning the neutral space between magnetic poles. Now let's say we have called one end of the magnetic field a North polarity (N) and the other end of the magnetic field a South polarity (S). That is one end of the external magnetic field is N and the other end of the external magnetic field is S. Now if one end is N and the other is S then as we move down the magnet the field must obviously transition from N to S. So what happens at the midpoint where N becomes S?, a condition deemed N has become an equal yet opposite condition known as S. You see what many are suggesting is that one condition (N) has miraculously become an opposite condition (S) without a transition within the space between the two conditions.

Obviously one condition cannot just magically become another opposite condition without a transition from one to the other because that would be completely absurd yet that is what you are implying isn't it?. Something (N) has become something else (S) which is different however apparently there is no point at which this transition from N to S can take place anywhere... Do you think this makes sense? because it makes absolutely no sense to me and defies pretty much all the known laws of physics.

So my question is very simple... if the external magnetic field does in fact change from North polarity to South polarity then where do you think it changes?, at what specific point does the change from N to S occur?.

AC



If I may interject with an opinion, or a different perspective?

The Mono Pole has never been found, well it actually has, but it’s not been standardised. Science has not found Monopoles in Nature and its not currently a part of accepted Science: elusive 'magnetic monopoles' found (http://phys.org/news/2009-10-large-scale-cousin-elusive-magnetic-monopoles.html)

Quote
In 1931, Paul Dirac, one of the rock stars of the physics world, made the somewhat startling prediction that "magnetic monopoles," or particles possessing only a single pole—either north or south—should exist. His conclusion stemmed from examining a famous set of equations that explains the relationship between electricity and magnetism. Maxwell's equations apply to long-known electric monopole particles, such as negatively charged electrons and positively charged protons; but despite Dirac's prediction, no one has found magnetic monopole particles.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2009-10-large-scale-cousin-elusive-magnetic-monopoles.html#jCp

A observational view point is most definitely distorted by the position of observation, today we know this and it is known that just observing some phenomena can distort the result.

Quote
The team created their monopoles in a compound made of oxygen, titanium and dysprosium that, when cooled to nearly absolute zero, forms what scientists call "spin ice." The material freezes into four-sided crystals (a pyramid with a triangular base) and the magnetic orientation, or "spin," of the ions at each of the four tips align so that their spins are balanced—two spins point inward and two outward. But using neutron beams at the NCNR, the team found they could knock one of the spins askew so that instead three point in, one out … "creating a monopole, or at least its mathematical equivalent,"

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2009-10-large-scale-cousin-elusive-magnetic-monopoles.html#jCp

So, from an observational view point, a deformation of Spin, can appear to create a Monopole. To me, this implies standard Magnetic Formations are a precursor, or a better term a requirement for the formation of a Monopole.

Just as every Planet we have observed is Spherical, nature has a particular, or a specific set of base level formations on any and all objects.

A Structure of Spin does have the same base level formation defined by Nature, but this is different depending on observation view point.  The below image can be very different if one were to observe from Inside, in the middle, of the formation…

Of course, the "relationship between electricity and magnetism" does require a deformation of Magnetic Fields, a High Stress Area is required, where the Magnetic Poles Oppose each other and the structure does have a particular pole of the same kind on each end of the structure.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 12, 2016, 12:25:37 AM


 I would say that the strongest magnetic field would be at the poles.
 Once you try to part two magnets you've essentially got two
 individual magnets and hence the attraction will be greatest.
 The electric field,however,is quite different.
           John.

But you dont have two individual magnets until they are parted. While you are trying to part them,they are still one magnet.

A lot of people confuse field concentration (the poles) with total field value.
The greatest total field value is at the center of the magnet-not at the poles.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 12, 2016, 12:57:56 AM
@tinman


Concerning this statement--- "You say the center of this magnet has the weakest part of the field-or is neutral ?. Well, try and pull them apart--not so weak now".
Grab the ends of your car and try to pull it apart -- which is the weakest part of your car and which is the strongest part?. Of course this is an absurd statement however this is exactly what your statement is suggesting. That somehow we could magically determine the greatest strength in the whole of the system simply by measuring a simple force between two individual parts in the system. The greatest field strength is not determined by measuring a simple force it is determined by measuring all the forces or fields present and determining which is the greatest and where it is the greatest.



So my question is very simple... if the external magnetic field does in fact change from North polarity to South polarity then where do you think it changes?, at what specific point does the change from N to S occur?.

AC

Quote
I wanted to address this issue separately because there are many errors present. We should note that there is a difference between the field strength and the size of the field. For example when you joined your two N52 magnets they did not become one and the field density did not change. They are still N52 magnets having a known material field density however the volume of material has change increasing the size of the field present. You will note between the two joined magnets is a neutral zone and it will always be present at the pole interface unless the magnetic material is formed as one piece thus the two magnets are not one nor will they ever be one.

Of course they became one-as far as the magnetic field is concerned. You only have to map that field with your hall sensor,and you will see that the field will be exactly the same as that of one complete magnet the same size.

Quote
Next is a simple error in logic most everyone seems to be making concerning the neutral space between magnetic poles. Now let's say we have called one end of the magnetic field a North polarity (N) and the other end of the magnetic field a South polarity (S). That is one end of the external magnetic field is N and the other end of the external magnetic field is S. Now if one end is N and the other is S then as we move down the magnet the field must obviously transition from N to S. So what happens at the midpoint where N becomes S?, a condition deemed N has become an equal yet opposite condition known as S. You see what many are suggesting is that one condition (N) has miraculously become an opposite condition (S) without a transition within the space between the two conditions.

Obviously one condition cannot just magically become another opposite condition without a transition from one to the other because that would be completely absurd yet that is what you are implying isn't it?. Something (N) has become something else (S) which is different however apparently there is no point at which this transition from N to S can take place anywhere... Do you think this makes sense? because it makes absolutely no sense to me and defies pretty much all the known laws of physics.


There is no north or south,these are terms used only to describe field flow direction.
If you look at any drawing of a magnetic field of a PM(or electromagnet),you will see that we depict a flow out from one end,and back into the other,and the only point along that magnet that has a unidirectional flow of this field,is at the mid point.

Your hall probe is measuring field density at one point of the field,and yes,this is at the !poles! of the magnet. But the greatest total field-and there for ,greatest total field strength,is at the center of the magnet.

As we use PMs in devices,where that PM field influences other parts of the device(E.G-induces an EMF in a coil,where that magnetic field is changing in time relative to the coil),then your statement about external influences upon the field is mute--as we never use a PM in a device where it dose not,or is not influenced by another part of the device. So what is the point in measuring the magnetic field the way you have?,when it needs to be measured in the conditions it will be in when being part of the operation of the device.

Lets look at the picture below-->what color line has the highest total magnetic flux flowing through it in one direction ?
What part of the field would cause the greatest induction to occur in a secondary coil?.

I think you have fallen for the old !nothing sticks to the magnet at the center,and so there must be no field! trick. You have also mistakenly measured the greatest flux density area with your hall probe-not greatest total field strength.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
But you dont have two individual magnets until they are parted. While you are trying to part them,they are still one magnet.

A lot of people confuse field concentration (the poles) with total field value.
The greatest total field value is at the center of the magnet-not at the poles.


Brad


Sort of confirmation is a test I did with the zero force coil.


Ron



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 12, 2016, 01:07:57 AM

Sort of confirmation is a test I did with the zero force coil.


Ron

Indeed Ron
Good job.

I would love to see your zero force motor up and running when it's completed.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 01:24:04 AM

Sort of confirmation is a test I did with the zero force coil.


Ron


Nice Work Ron!!!

If you have more than one kind of Hall Probe, I recommend running the same test again with that. I have done this test and got different results with different probes. This was back on the "Magnet Myths and Misconceptions (http://overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg430877/#msg430877)" thread some time back.

Please excuse my behaviour, there was a bit of a harassment going on in those days between parties.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: Some very awesome work from AllCanadian sparked those experiments off: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions - Post: 635 (http://overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg431695/#msg431695)


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 03:00:44 AM

Nice Work Ron!!!

If you have more than one kind of Hall Probe, I recommend running the same test again with that. I have done this test and got different results with different probes. This was back on the "Magnet Myths and Misconceptions (http://overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg430877/#msg430877)" thread some time back.

Please excuse my behaviour, there was a bit of a harassment going on in those days between parties.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org




Thanks Chris,


Were you reading the forum back on page 7? Because to days test is more or less confirmation of my video:


https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM (https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM)


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 03:11:23 AM



Thanks Chris,


Were you reading the forum back on page 7? Because to days test is more or less confirmation of my video:


https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM (https://youtu.be/yC4g0XCgEqM)


Ron



I did see that, yes! I thought I had responded?

Sorry, looks like I may have lost a post somewhere...

Nice Work, it is simple experiments like this, that we can learn the most from!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 03:12:16 AM
Indeed Ron
Good job.

I would love to see your zero force motor up and running when it's completed.

Brad


Thanks Brad, I hesitate to predict when that might take place as Murphy likes me and hangs around here a lot. For example I was busy machining the rotor yesterday when the hot water tank sprung a leak, so I switched hats and got the vacuum cleaner out to suck up the lake and the switch chose that moment to go west... anyway, all the little chores done now and so back to the project in the morning.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 03:19:25 AM


I did see that, yes! I thought I had responded?

Sorry, looks like I may have lost a post somewhere...

Nice Work, it is simple experiments like this, that we can learn the most from!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


 now that you mention it , yes you did, I was having a seniors moment... I will be 81 end of this month, so I can get away with a lot, LOL


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on August 12, 2016, 03:31:28 AM

Sort of confirmation is a test I did with the zero force coil.


Ron

Now test top to bottom with the hall arrow pointing to the right. As in the hall face outward from the coil/magnet.

It is not that all of the N face flux goes all the way to the S face. Some reenters the sides. You can see this with the hall. Once you get the grip with XYZ of the hall orientation you will be able to map out the fields of the coil/mag.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 04:17:37 AM

 now that you mention it , yes you did, I was having a seniors moment... I will be 81 end of this month, so I can get away with a lot, LOL


Ron


Totally understand Ron, no problem! Me too some days!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 05:39:26 AM
Now test top to bottom with the hall arrow pointing to the right. As in the hall face outward from the coil/magnet.

It is not that all of the N face flux goes all the way to the S face. Some reenters the sides. You can see this with the hall. Once you get the grip with XYZ of the hall orientation you will be able to map out the fields of the coil/mag.

Mags


Quite true Mags, there is a definite north and south demarcation when oriented so.


However, as the question pertains to the zero force motor, the right question to ask is what is the orientation of the force that drives the external magnet. In this case the motion would be radially into and out from the coil so is it not safe to stick with the longer looping flux lines?
They seem to be the ones doing the work.


You can see these short lines in the jpg but I think it is the longer loops that we need to watch


Thanks, Ron


 


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 12, 2016, 07:06:08 AM
@tinman
Quote
Lets look at the picture below-->what color line has the highest total magnetic flux flowing through it in one direction ?


Okay I see where your going, however the textbook picture you posted below is inaccurate and the actual total field at the center (blue line) can extend many feet to the side as can the total field past the poles (red line).


Quote
What part of the field would cause the greatest induction to occur in a secondary coil?.


The poles I think because while there may be slightly less lines (less flux) the line density is greater (greater field density). In reality a coil will never be induced by all the flux lines at the center red line unless your coil is two feet in diameter which is impractical. On the other hand a small coil covering the whole pole face/end will be induced by nearly all the flux having a very much greater flux density.


You did try covering the whole pole face/end of the core/coil with a secondary coil of identical wire length to your center coil to determine the difference in inductive properties didn't you?. The problem we know all too well is that most of the time our best laid plans are foiled by reality. We see a picture in a textbook or run a simulation and say hey this looks easy. Then we hit the bench and all hell breaks loose and nothing is as it seemed, that's reality and it's a bitch.


Meanwhile I noticed an anomaly in the hall sensor scans I did a year or so ago which EMJ referred to that may prove interesting...back to the bench.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 09:07:20 AM
@tinman

Okay I see where your going, however the textbook picture you posted below is inaccurate and the actual total field at the center (blue line) can extend many feet to the side as can the total field past the poles (red line).



The poles I think because while there may be slightly less lines (less flux) the line density is greater (greater field density). In reality a coil will never be induced by all the flux lines at the center red line unless your coil is two feet in diameter which is impractical. On the other hand a small coil covering the whole pole face/end will be induced by nearly all the flux having a very much greater flux density.


You did try covering the whole pole face/end of the core/coil with a secondary coil of identical wire length to your center coil to determine the difference in inductive properties didn't you?. The problem we know all too well is that most of the time our best laid plans are foiled by reality. We see a picture in a textbook or run a simulation and say hey this looks easy. Then we hit the bench and all hell breaks loose and nothing is as it seemed, that's reality and it's a bitch.


Meanwhile I noticed an anomaly in the hall sensor scans I did a year or so ago which EMJ referred to that may prove interesting...back to the bench.


AC



@Ron, it may be worth reading the posts referred to? It was a lengthy investigation!


@AC and Tinman:

We were right, we still are, we found some interesting data, data that gave us some insight!!!

We were right, the Iron Filing experiment is inherently flawed, we pointed this out many times, none listened!!!

@AC - I too have found that some Hall Probes are problematic, I asked Ron to try a few different types for this reason. I don’t want to speculate too much, but suspect that some probes detect the Electric Field Intensity as the Magnetic Field and as a result gives an Incorrect Magnetic Field Reading. I am not totally sure on this however...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Iron Filings make lots of patterns, each being its own tiny Magnet in its own right:
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 11:39:04 AM



To prove the point, of Field Lines, I should have gone and spent $20 on some Ferro Fluid.

Examining why this is as it is, the following Image, should really start those interested asking some hard serious questions: Credit: Ferrofluid Piston  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21WzdjqAG0s) This s a very cool experiment also!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 12, 2016, 02:56:10 PM
@EMJ
Quote
@AC - I too have found that some Hall Probes are problematic, I asked Ron to try a few different types for this reason. I don’t want to speculate too much, but suspect that some probes detect the Electric Field Intensity as the Magnetic Field and as a result gives an Incorrect Magnetic Field Reading. I am not totally sure on this however...


Here's the trick, the hall effect sensor only measures the flux through the sensor face which means it is a directional sensor. In my Labview setup with an oscilloscope graph and bar graph I can easily see large swings at any given point simply by rotating the sensor on it's axis. This tells me the exact direction of the flux at any given point and the max value correlates to the max field density and direction. In effect simply moving the sensor face straight through any region will always give inaccurate readings because the flux/sensor face angle changes.

In effect when I_ron was taking his gauss meter readings and the measure approached zero near the pole this was not because the field strength was decreasing to zero. It was because the direction of the flux was now near 90 degrees to the sensor face and the sensor could not detect it. As I said we must be very careful concerning what we think we are measuring and how we are taking the measurement. If the flux direction is 45 degrees off from the sensor face then we see about one half the real field density measurement and when the flux direction is 90 degrees off from the sensor face we see zero of the real field density measurement. For the record, last year I was making the same mistake as I_ron and my graphs should have been corrected to compensate for the sensor face/flux direction deviations.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 04:59:29 PM


In effect when I_ron was taking his gauss meter readings and the measure approached zero near the pole this was not because the field strength was decreasing to zero. It was because the direction of the flux was now near 90 degrees to the sensor face and the sensor could not detect it. As I said we must be very careful concerning what we think we are measuring and how we are taking the measurement. If the flux direction is 45 degrees off from the sensor face then we see about one half the real field density measurement and when the flux direction is 90 degrees off from the sensor face we see zero of the real field density measurement. For the record I was making the same mistakes as I_ron and my graphs should have been corrected to compensate for the sensor face/flux direction deviations.

AC


AC, you are quite correct... but this is rather obvious and not something I was attempting to ignore or circumvent.


To try and keep this discussion relevant let me again state, that as tinman built JB's Zero Force motor and I am currently in the process of building one the focus was on the directionality of the flux lines that propel the external magnet along its path.


Now JB claims to switch "at the block wall", Whereas tinman and myself are suggesting that this is not relevant. What I was attempting to show in my video was that there are two lock up points at each end of a solenoid coil and that in between  there is a rather continuous motive force independent of any block wall... and that the strongest field is in the middle.


My understanding at the moment is that these flux lines are a flow. That any static depiction is inherently misleading because the inclusion of an external magnet and the "flow" automatically adjusts to conform to this intrusion.


That said I am learning, thanks for all your inputs, they are appreciated.


Ron 



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 12, 2016, 07:20:32 PM
@I_ron
Quote
To try and keep this discussion relevant let me again state, that as tinman built JB's Zero Force motor and I am currently in the process of building one the focus was on the directionality of the flux lines that propel the external magnet along its path.

Now JB claims to switch "at the block wall", Whereas tinman and myself are suggesting that this is not relevant. What I was attempting to show in my video was that there are two lock up points at each end of a solenoid coil and that in between  there is a rather continuous motive force independent of any block wall... and that the strongest field is in the middle.

My understanding at the moment is that these flux lines are a flow. That any static depiction is inherently misleading because the inclusion of an external magnet and the "flow" automatically adjusts to conform to this intrusion.

I'm not sure if you know this but I built and tested the motor you are trying to build as well as a generator based on the same principals around 5 years ago. I built and tested many variations of both and posted some of the designs in this forum. I built one similar motor in which the driving coil could not be induced by the rotor magnet in any way which was kind of neat.

Here is what I found concerning the motor your trying to build, first there is no flow and there are no flux lines and there are no North/South poles as these are simply notations. The field has direction we call polarity and it has field density we call strength or magnitude. In your video you simply demonstrated the fact that opposite poles attract and like poles repel. What makes this setup different however is the fact that the rotor magnet is simultaneously in attraction and repulsion with only one stator coil but utilizing the field from both ends of the coil in the same instance.

Now why do you suppose the strongest force is in the middle?, because the magnet is interacting with both poles of the coil simultaneously not only one. Why does the rotor magnet lock up at the coil ends?, when the coil is off the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the core material which ends at the end of the core. When the coil is on the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the nearest unlike pole and is repelled from the nearest like pole. You can prevent the lock up at the coil poles by momentarily switching off the current at the poles and you may also reverse the coil current after the magnet has left the coil poles to increase the force on the rotor. Why switch at the center of the stator coil or supposed bloch wall?, because the rotor magnet interacts with both stator coil poles equally following the inverse square law. As well we should note that at the exact center of the stator core the field from the rotor magnet should diverge towards both ends of the stator core equally provided the coil was not energized prior. Does this matter?... maybe it does maybe it doesn't.

What I can tell you is your not going anywhere using that infernal manual switch shown in the video, the switching must be of the proper magnitude, timing and duration with respect to the rotor magnet.

AC


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 08:55:24 PM
@I_ron
I'm not sure if you know this but I built and tested the motor you are trying to build as well as a generator based on the same principals around 5 years ago. I built and tested many variations of both and posted some of the designs in this forum. I built one similar motor in which the driving coil could not be induced by the rotor magnet in any way which was kind of neat.

Here is what I found concerning the motor your trying to build, first there is no flow and there are no flux lines and there are no North/South poles as these are simply notations. The field has direction we call polarity and it has field density we call strength or magnitude. In your video you simply demonstrated the fact that opposite poles attract and like poles repel. What makes this setup different however is the fact that the rotor magnet is simultaneously in attraction and repulsion with only one stator coil but utilizing the field from both ends of the coil in the same instance.

Now why do you suppose the strongest force is in the middle?, because the magnet is interacting with both poles of the coil simultaneously not only one. Why does the rotor magnet lock up at the coil ends?, when the coil is off the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the core material which ends at the end of the core. When the coil is on the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the nearest unlike pole and is repelled from the nearest like pole. You can prevent the lock up at the coil poles by momentarily switching off the current at the poles and you may also reverse the coil current after the magnet has left the coil poles to increase the force on the rotor. Why switch at the center of the stator coil or supposed bloch wall?, because the rotor magnet interacts with both stator coil poles equally following the inverse square law. As well we should note that at the exact center of the stator core the field from the rotor magnet should diverge towards both ends of the stator core equally provided the coil was not energized prior. Does this matter?... maybe it does maybe it doesn't.

What I can tell you is your not going anywhere using that infernal manual switch shown in the video, the switching must be of the proper magnitude, timing and duration with respect to the rotor magnet.

AC


OK, that is the best description I have heard so far. I can agree with that.


I was not aware that you had built these motors so this is the information I sought,


Thanks


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 12, 2016, 09:49:14 PM
@I_ron

What I can tell you is your not going anywhere using that infernal manual switch shown in the video, the switching must be of the proper magnitude, timing and duration with respect to the rotor magnet.

AC


Then to if you were more familiar with my work....


That was a quick and nasty red neck switch used to make a point.


Below is a better example of my switching on Phil Wood's 16/24 somaloy cored Motor. It is an hall effect switched, to 7555 one shots and CD4011 lock out logic to a MC33883 H bridge pre driver. 20 pin soic's are just a bit beyond my board making skills so I have taken to using break out boards... and this helps in trouble shooting also as they are pluggable.


However for the Zero Force what I had in mind was opto's to a  gate driver and mosfet... on a bread board, nothing to out of the ordinary


Ron


 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 10:20:34 PM
@EMJ

Here's the trick, the hall effect sensor only measures the flux through the sensor face which means it is a directional sensor. In my Labview setup with an oscilloscope graph and bar graph I can easily see large swings at any given point simply by rotating the sensor on it's axis. This tells me the exact direction of the flux at any given point and the max value correlates to the max field density and direction. In effect simply moving the sensor face straight through any region will always give inaccurate readings because the flux/sensor face angle changes.

In effect when I_ron was taking his gauss meter readings and the measure approached zero near the pole this was not because the field strength was decreasing to zero. It was because the direction of the flux was now near 90 degrees to the sensor face and the sensor could not detect it. As I said we must be very careful concerning what we think we are measuring and how we are taking the measurement. If the flux direction is 45 degrees off from the sensor face then we see about one half the real field density measurement and when the flux direction is 90 degrees off from the sensor face we see zero of the real field density measurement. For the record, last year I was making the same mistake as I_ron and my graphs should have been corrected to compensate for the sensor face/flux direction deviations.

AC



Hi AC,

Of course I completely agree, orientation to Field Line Vector is important.

We see readings, from our experiments that are not holding with the Field Line experiments that we have done. Iron Filing Experiment is the worst for our Result, showing we should see a fairly linear reading throughout most of the length of the Magnet. This we’re not seeing.

Generally by following the Flux Line, we should see a value that is the inverse square of the distance from the strongest point. Which should be the pole.

As the probe measures both polarities, and North and a South, this could explain the inverse readings, as the probe reaches the Mid-Point, there is equal field strengths and the probe sees a maximum force each side of the Sensor at this point.

The will actually give us a false reading. I am hesitant to say we are reading the same thing twice, as realistically, we are not, or are we...

The Magnet still holds some Mysteries!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: The Link: Fun with Vortex Rings in the Pool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72LWr7BU8Ao)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: gyulasun on August 12, 2016, 10:28:47 PM
....
 Why does the rotor magnet lock up at the coil ends?, when the coil is off the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the core material which ends at the end of the core.
...
 Why switch at the center of the stator coil or supposed bloch wall?, because the rotor magnet interacts with both stator coil poles equally following the inverse square law. As well we should note that at the exact center of the stator core the field from the rotor magnet should diverge towards both ends of the stator core equally provided the coil was not energized prior. Does this matter?... maybe it does maybe it doesn't.
....

Hi AC,

Would like to tell you that in Bedini's zero force motor setup there is no ferromagnetic core in the coils, they are air cored or rather 'some kind of plastic bobbin' cored to form the two half toroidal coil shapes. This turned out from some of the short descriptions JB gave on his setup on another forum.
I believe that your understanding on the poles in this setup is correct.  By the way, as per JB the rotor magnets ride on the A-field of the (toroidal) stator coils.

Gyula
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 12, 2016, 10:55:12 PM

Then to if you were more familiar with my work....


That was a quick and nasty red neck switch used to make a point.


Below is a better example of my switching on Phil Wood's 16/24 somaloy cored Motor. It is an hall effect switched, to 7555 one shots and CD4011 lock out logic to a MC33883 H bridge pre driver. 20 pin soic's are just a bit beyond my board making skills so I have taken to using break out boards... and this helps in trouble shooting also as they are pluggable.


However for the Zero Force what I had in mind was opto's to a  gate driver and mosfet... on a bread board, nothing to out of the ordinary


Ron




Nice Build Ron!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 12, 2016, 11:50:56 PM
@I_ron
Quote
Below is a better example of my switching on Phil Wood's 16/24 somaloy cored Motor. It is an hall effect switched, to 7555 one shots and CD4011 lock out logic to a MC33883 H bridge pre driver. 20 pin soic's are just a bit beyond my board making skills so I have taken to using break out boards... and this helps in trouble shooting also as they are pluggable.

Hall effect/one shot's are the way to go in my opinion and I have used hall effect switches which have pretty decent rise/fall times on their own. Lately I found it easier to just use a cheap micro-controller such as the Arduino Pro mini 328 to build custom waveforms and control switching on the software end. Getting too old for that bread boarding stuff which takes way to long and it is too hard to modify the parameters.

Quote
However for the Zero Force what I had in mind was opto's to a gate driver and mosfet... on a bread board, nothing to out of the ordinary

That sounds like a good plan and an easy way to set duration is to use two sensor/switches. Generally we have issues with rise/fall times relating to the semiconductors used however if one switch is used to turn on the coil and another separate switch is used to turn it off then the switch separation determines the duration. Here is the trick... if the second switch is on the other side of the rotor then the on/off switching can occur within nearly the same time frame giving switching durations we cannot achieve any other way. You see it takes the semiconductor lag times out of the equation because they can be compensated for by the physical switch overlap and the fact there are now two switches in the circuit. Theoretically the off switch could even be activated before the on switch if the semiconductor lag is slightly greater on the off switching and the difference in lag is now the actual switching duration, lol. Seemingly impossible problems require creative solutions.

I learned many neat tricks testing different motor/generator geometries, invented a lot of stuff to solve whatever problems happened to pop up along the way and had a lot of fun doing it.

AC

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 13, 2016, 12:17:46 AM
@I_ron
I'm not sure if you know this but I built and tested the motor you are trying to build as well as a generator based on the same principals around 5 years ago. I built and tested many variations of both and posted some of the designs in this forum. I built one similar motor in which the driving coil could not be induced by the rotor magnet in any way which was kind of neat.

Here is what I found concerning the motor your trying to build, first there is no flow and there are no flux lines and there are no North/South poles as these are simply notations. The field has direction we call polarity and it has field density we call strength or magnitude. In your video you simply demonstrated the fact that opposite poles attract and like poles repel. What makes this setup different however is the fact that the rotor magnet is simultaneously in attraction and repulsion with only one stator coil but utilizing the field from both ends of the coil in the same instance.



What I can tell you is your not going anywhere using that infernal manual switch shown in the video, the switching must be of the proper magnitude, timing and duration with respect to the rotor magnet.

AC

Quote
Now why do you suppose the strongest force is in the middle?, because the magnet is interacting with both poles of the coil simultaneously not only one. Why does the rotor magnet lock up at the coil ends?, when the coil is off the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the core material which ends at the end of the core. When the coil is on the magnetic field from the magnet couples to the nearest unlike pole and is repelled from the nearest like pole. You can prevent the lock up at the coil poles by momentarily switching off the current at the poles and you may also reverse the coil current after the magnet has left the coil poles to increase the force on the rotor. Why switch at the center of the stator coil or supposed bloch wall?, because the rotor magnet interacts with both stator coil poles equally following the inverse square law. As well we should note that at the exact center of the stator core the field from the rotor magnet should diverge towards both ends of the stator core equally provided the coil was not energized prior. Does this matter?... maybe it does maybe it doesn't.

If that was the case,then the magnet should see the same force anywhere along that coil,because even though it may be further away from one pole,it will be closer to the other,and so if you want to use your inverse square law,then the force applied to the magnet should be equal anywhere along that coils length--but it is no. The greatest force against that magnet will be at the center of the coil,not at either end.
Inverse square law-->The intensity of the influence at any given radius r is the source strength divided by the area of the sphere. Being strictly geometric in its origin, the inverse square law applies to diverse phenomena. Point sources of gravitational force, electric field, light, sound or radiation obey the inverse square law.

Below is a quick sketch of field strength of a coil when a current is applied.
With the zero force motor(as is with any other PM DC motor) you would want to switch the coil on when the magnet on the rotor is a point 3,and switch of when the magnet is at point 5.
If a thin pancake type coil was made(the secondary)to slide over the primary(coil depicted),then the greatest output from the secondary-when the primary was pulsed with a DC current,or an AC current is applied to the primary,will be when the secondary is at point 4.

The mid point of a PM or an electromagnet is not a bloch wall,nor is it void of a magnetic field.
It is in fact the point where the magnetic field is greatest.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 13, 2016, 01:39:43 AM
@tinman
Quote
If that was the case,then the magnet should see the same force anywhere along that coil,because even though it may be further away from one pole,it will be closer to the other,and so if you want to use your inverse square law,then the force applied to the magnet should be equal anywhere along that coils length--but it is no. The greatest force against that magnet will be at the center of the coil,not at either end.


I know what your saying however the devil is always in the details. A magnet is not a coil, a straight coil as you have depicted is not a semi-circular coil following the circumference of the rotor... all act very different under different circumstances. In your picture of a straight coil with a circular rotor then yes I agree with you. If it were a straight coil on a core then yes I agree, if it was a semi-circular coil then probably no and a semi-circular coil on a core then probably no.


Quote
[size=0px]Inverse square law-->[/size][size=0px]The intensity of the influence at any given radius r is the source strength divided by the area of the sphere. Being strictly geometric in its origin, the inverse square law applies to diverse phenomena. Point sources of gravitational force, electric field, light, sound or radiation obey the inverse square law.[/size]


Realistically this is just a fancy way of saying the change in field strength falls off faster than the change in distance that's all.


Quote
Below is a quick sketch of field strength of a coil when a current is applied.
With the zero force motor(as is with any other PM DC motor) you would want to switch the coil on when the magnet on the rotor is a point 3,and switch of when the magnet is at point 5.


I would agree with that based on the picture you posted with reservations. If the field density of the coil is low then we may have flux leakage through the coil turns and the magnet will not couple to the field of the whole coil due to the inverse square law. I believe this may be how we differ in opinion as you seem to see everything as black and white where I see nothing but shades of grey. If the rotor magnet is a weak ceramic then the coil field may dominate the equation and if the rotor magnet is the best neo magnet money can buy then it may dominate again depending on the coil field density and other variables. In effect your making generalizations I cannot decipher... I need specifics, I'm not the amazing kreskin.


Quote
The mid point of a PM or an electromagnet is not a bloch wall,nor is it void of a magnetic field.
It is in fact the point where the magnetic field is greatest.


That is your opinion, I'm working to prove you and others wrong. I have in fact proven the neutral point with respect to the electric field therefore I see no reason I cannot prove it with magnetic and gravic fields. Don't get me wrong, you make valid points I just don't believe them based on the lack of details and what I have seen for myself.


AC


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 13, 2016, 01:41:55 AM
If that was the case,then the magnet should see the same force anywhere along that coil,because even though it may be further away from one pole,it will be closer to the other,and so if you want to use your inverse square law,then the force applied to the magnet should be equal anywhere along that coils length--but it is no. The greatest force against that magnet will be at the center of the coil,not at either end.
Inverse square law-->The intensity of the influence at any given radius r is the source strength divided by the area of the sphere. Being strictly geometric in its origin, the inverse square law applies to diverse phenomena. Point sources of gravitational force, electric field, light, sound or radiation obey the inverse square law.

Below is a quick sketch of field strength of a coil when a current is applied.
With the zero force motor(as is with any other PM DC motor) you would want to switch the coil on when the magnet on the rotor is a point 3,and switch of when the magnet is at point 5.
If a thin pancake type coil was made(the secondary)to slide over the primary(coil depicted),then the greatest output from the secondary-when the primary was pulsed with a DC current,or an AC current is applied to the primary,will be when the secondary is at point 4.

The mid point of a PM or an electromagnet is not a bloch wall,nor is it void of a magnetic field.
It is in fact the point where the magnetic field is greatest.


Brad



I agree the "Force" at the central point of the Magnet, Permanent or Electromagnet, is the greatest force in the System.

I am not sure I would call this "Force", the Magnetic Field however. We can see the Magnetic Field lines from the pole, are definitely an Inverse Square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law) phenomena, the Conical structure shows us this, see Image Below:

What does this mean, a few points of view can be taken here.

Well, a Fire Hose, full flow, the water force is very much greater in Strength and Velocity at the Nozzle, than 40 feet away where it hits its target!!! This is the Inverse Square Law. For example, if we increase pressure at the Nozzle, we increase the Distance that the Water can Travel over the course of Time!

The Thrust Equation (https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/thrsteq.html) is an example of this:

F = (m dot * V)e - (m dot * V)0 + (pe - p0) * Ae

or to simplify:

Force = mass * acceleration

The Force F is only defined at the Point of the Nozzle though! So the Inverse Square Law gives us the Force F at a distance:

B = μ0 /2 π I/r

But the Strength is H, not B of the Magnetic Field! Well H is simply:

H = B/μ0

This gives us the Conical Structure we see in the Ferro Fluid, the Greater the Magnetic Field Strength (H) the bigger the Spikes we get!!!

So, the Force F we see at the Center of the Permanent or Electromagnet, is not the Magnetic Field, as the Ferrofluid Image above shows. This Force, it not showing Magnetic Field Line properties, it is a part of the Magnet to be explored further, and our very own Earth may give us some Ideas:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: Ferro Fluid is a Mass and thus will not show the true line of force due to Gravity, the weight on the Fluid will reduce the Conical length some. Of course, all this is my opinion from my research.
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 16, 2016, 04:47:17 AM





Well here it is running


https://youtu.be/SGRBk6lWAf4


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on August 16, 2016, 05:19:27 AM



Awesome work Ron!!! Real nice clean build there!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: tinman on August 16, 2016, 03:56:25 PM




Well here it is running


https://youtu.be/SGRBk6lWAf4


Ron

Very nice build Ron,and a decent RPM as well.

Why amount of power dose it consume at top speed ?, and are you collecting,or using the inductive kickback ?.


Brad
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 16, 2016, 05:23:57 PM
Very nice build Ron,and a decent RPM as well.

What amount of power does it consume at top speed ?, and are you collecting,or using the inductive kickback ?.


Brad


Thanks Chris, Brad,


haven't done any tests yet but it is running with a diode across the two coils, will play with it to day, all going well


Ron
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 16, 2016, 07:51:00 PM

Thanks Chris, Brad,


haven't done any tests yet but it is running with a diode across the two coils, will play with it to day, all going well


Ron


OK, on me old Micronta 22-214 analog multimeter I get ,somewhere near the start, a reading of 270 mA, dropping to 200 mA after some running time.


1.7 mS pulse looks like this: (there are six per revolution)


It does generate a small voltage incidentally.


Ron


 
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 19, 2016, 05:05:52 PM



Brad,


I am not entirely in agreement with JB's statement in his videos that this, 'Zero Force' is a non-generator.


Naudin showed way back when that this configuration can induce a voltage.


Ron


Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 19, 2016, 11:54:38 PM

Like most Ron, you take what the man says at face value.  snip

Anyway....the attached was produced by one of many machines that I built investigating this subject.

Regards


Interesting post erfinder, I liked that.


Now I must confess that the six pole zero force design was a flop. 


This is the induced voltage, shown below which is a near perfect sine wave of nearly seven volts pk to pk


Ron

Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 19, 2016, 11:59:55 PM

Now I must confess that the six pole zero force design was a flop. 

Ron


So I took all the magnets out but two at 180 and got this...(below)


I have built a new four magnet rotor and while it doesn't have the speed yet (only 1700 RPM) it does have less induced AC voltage, just around the two volt mark, 1 1/2 volts positive and 1/2 volt negative.

Incidentally, these scope shots are done with the motor being brought up to speed and then the power removed, the shots taken on coast down.

Ron



Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: Magluvin on August 20, 2016, 01:32:22 AM


Brad,


I am not entirely in agreement with JB's statement in his videos that this, 'Zero Force' is a non-generator.


Naudin showed way back when that this configuration can induce a voltage.


Ron

It makes sense to me that the output would be as you show in the scope. The one hump camel. ;)   Like if you have a magnet pass a coil with core in the more common manner, as the magnet approaches the core, the field is attracted to it more as it gets close. So the filed cuts the approaching side of the coil first, creating 1 phase of the typical ac sine output. And as the mag approaches tdc most all the field is in the core with less field cutting the windings and the voltage induced become 0v at tdc. Then as the field passes tdc, the field starts cutting the departure side of the core, giving us the other phase of the AC out.

So here we have the magnet only cutting the one side of the coil, thus basically only 1 phase out. But is there drag when the winding is loaded, as in lenz? Im just not so sure the config is lenzless as the coil is being induced by the moving mag, just as if the coil were in the typical on axis with the mag at tdc, the coil will repel an approaching mag, and pull on a departing mag. So each phase has an opposing affect on the moving mag as the coil gets induced.

What may be interesting is to wind just one 1/4(small section, not all the way around) of a toroid and spin a mag past the winding in the same way as you show, but the core a closed one. And if there is no induction to the toroid winding, then try a diametric in the hole of the toroid core. The one difference between having the magnet field cut the windings on the outside dia of the core vs inside is there would be no cog between the mag and the core, as if it is cutting the outside, there would definitely be cog because the mag is approaching and departing, where inside the hole of a round core, if the diametric mag is dead center, there would be no cog as the magnet is always the same distance from the core. So there would be possibly just pure lenz of just the induced winding? ??? ??

Follow me here....   If the field of a winding on a toroid core is only in the core, as they claim, then there will be no lenz effect on the magnet as the coils induced field cannot escape the core. As far as they say......    ;)   Im going to try that this weekend. See what happens.  I have some 3/8 dia 1/2in long diametrics and plenty of cores. For me what may be interesting is if the coil doesnt get induced with an outer dia mag pass, but if it does with the mag in the hole, then possibly this helps prove that a pri windings field does pass through through the hole of the core to cut sec windings on the other side of the core. ??? ;D All of that gave me this idea and it may prove well with what you are doing here.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on August 20, 2016, 05:50:26 AM
Like this below....

Mags
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 20, 2016, 04:57:35 PM

It was a flop according to who?  A flop by what standard?  I too have a six pole machine, and like you indicate, mine also generates a sinewave which is cleaner in appearance than anything I have ever seen built by anyone!  That machine was the last one I built before I switched geometry.  That machine is dragless by the standard which is collectively agreed upon among those who only have eyes for the dragless condition.  If you got the machine wired up right, and the proper relation between the inducing and induced, yours should be dragless as well.  Be wise sir, investigate carefully before you conclude that there is nothing there, you are seconds from throwing away that which none have demonstrated here, save one, (me) I was ignored.


added.....


This design opens the door to what I have referred to in the past as the "rectangular transformation matrix".  That statement motivated the resident plagiarist to rush in and inform me that I was wrong.  That same individual wasn't able to generate the same conditions in his apparatus when asked, and still hasn't to this day.


Regards




Ah, I hadn't followed through with that. What I was implying was a failure by JB's concept of a "successful" replication with "no induced voltage". However you shine a light on a concept I had been disregarding. Thank you.


I had dabbled with the transverse coil induction method before now but had come up against Lenz being fully a participant. The rectangular transformation matrix could do with some further discussion


Ron
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 20, 2016, 06:09:24 PM


 we can speculate off forum.

Regards


thanks, you could check your inbox


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2016, 02:16:12 AM
Ok. Just did a quicky test before I go further. Rotor just spun up by hand.

First pic and scope shot is what I described in my last post. It was a core that was already wound to see possibly anything. And there ya go.

The second set with the core set up like the Orbo cores were in reference to the rotor. Some, but very little output

In the first set I want the winding to be tighter, like I said earlier about 1/4 of the core wound, but the larger core Im going to be using I want possibly 1/16, so when the mag passes, it doesnt brush the winding, as in the max field density only being over one portion of the coil at a time.

And the second set which is orbo positioned naturally doesnt put out much as the closest windings are moving inline with the field, so no cutting. Some though. What we did see in the scope shot are probably outer weak fields inducing from the magnet pass. If you can imagine it, you will see. So tiny output, due to weak fields at greater distance from the affected windings.


So after I wind a new core and test that, then make a setup with the diametric mag shown in the pics below and spin the mag in the core and see what we get without core cogging.  That core will have a bunch of little windings going around, so there is always output. Opposite sides of the core windings can be in series. Working on how many windings I want to do.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2016, 02:25:18 AM
Woops, one more thing...

With the Orbo setup as in the second set of pics above, they had the cores wound all the way from end to end, which may further reduce rotor mag influence of the winding output. But with the core I had shown above, if I turn the core on its axis so the winding is on top and the mag just crosses over the bare core at the end of the winding, I get greater output. Also if the windings are down I get the same.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on August 21, 2016, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Erfinder
..., and yet, when we review the accepted literature, we find support, and the insane doesn't look so insane anymore.

Not only support, but it practically smacks one between the eyes with the obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukBFPrXiKWA

Though not everyone can see why a semi-permanent magnet would be a useful thing to have.

Instead, we do the same thing in our devices, day after day, paying for it at every instance.  Not so smart grasshopper.

Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 21, 2016, 04:53:16 PM


The only time we truly fail, is when our effort is centered around the idea of copying and pasting, the term being thrown around is "replication". 


Regards


A misconception. This is the very basis of our learning process.


When we see something being done it brings out the questions...what did he do, how did he do it, what did he do it with? and the final question, can I do that?


For example if we never saw anyone ski then we should in all probability never give it a thought. But having seen someone ski then the questions start, ah, he is using two thin boards just a bit taller than myself... and somehow they are fastened to my boots... you know the story...then by refining the items used with the process of standing upright and sliding down the hill we are ski-ing. We have learned through replication. It is not a bad word.


Ron


Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: tinman on August 22, 2016, 01:14:42 AM


Brad,


I am not entirely in agreement with JB's statement in his videos that this, 'Zero Force' is a non-generator.


Naudin showed way back when that this configuration can induce a voltage.


Ron

That is correct Ron.
Any time there is an external magnetic field changing in time with regards to an inductor,will cause a voltage to be induced across that inductor--and so it becomes a generating coil.
If there was no induced BackEMF from the magnet in motion to that of the inductor,the current would go sky high.


Brad
Title: Re: Zero Force Motor
Post by: i_ron on August 22, 2016, 08:29:29 PM

Hi erfinder, all,


with  erfinder's encouragement, he suggested I not give up on version 1,  I put the 6 pole rotor back in business.
 
 Adding a generating coil shows the nice sine wave on that coil.
 
 But this is where it gets interesting, lightly loading this coil does not upset the motor too much. Anything less that 300 ohms and the motor gradually slows right down.
 
 But... with a speed of 2045 RPM and a no load output of 4,86 volts... putting a 300 ohm load on the coil will, over several minutes, drag the RPM down to 2000 and the voltage down to 4.09 volts DC ((FWB, 1000 uF)
 
 It has just run like that for 30 minutes.
 
 A clarification, the motor draw is very much RPM sensitive, 300 mA at 1200 RPM, 200 mA at 2000 RPM. So there is no discernible input meter movement when connecting the load or disconnecting the load.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Enjoykin2017 on August 22, 2016, 11:49:15 PM
Hi Guys !!

Let's start from the very begining.

Prime question is: "Does the test electrostatic  charge/s (electron/s) and permanent magnet (both poles) interact among themselves or not interact and why is so ??".

There is our small experimental setup: Take a glass tube. Clean it from greased sweaty hands with alcohol. Now rub one end of a glass tube with synthetic fabric, and suspend it for the middle by means of a rubber flagella to a rack and bring at in vicinity permanent magnet near the polished end of glass tube.

1. Is there exist any kind of ineraction or force between test electrostatic charge/s (electron/s) in close proximity of southern or northern permanent magnet poles ??

Guys now do the same, but with non polished end.

2. Any interaction or not ??

To undesrtand any electro-magnetic paradox it was quite necessary to understand on prime experiment does the electrostatic test charge and a magnet interact among themselves ??

.........................
pps: "Physics stands on a stable foundation of the facts, but not on drift sand of imaginary hypotheses", E. Rutherford.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on August 23, 2016, 06:53:17 PM
"semi-permanent" ,Dog-One ? I think someone call this "Hybrid magnet" !
 
 The 45 Tesla Hybrid Magnet - Strongest Magnet Ever Built  It could pull your tooth filling out from half a mile away!
 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on August 23, 2016, 09:21:54 PM
Just take example from EmJunkie thread and use the rised current in one leg of mutual transformer to create field around the resonant tank circuit or a lots of coils in some special configuration or non inductive position, basically without loading the input.[size=78%] [/size]
[size=78%]Looks like the Kapanadze aquarium box[/size]
Title: Re: from umpa lumpa to umpa lumpa
Post by: hoptoad on August 28, 2016, 07:38:29 AM
snip..

As I have stated more often than not, ones connection with the material is what I am most interested in.
snip..
All that to say this, do I know something you don't......I would like to think I do....
Regards
That's one reason why I'm more interested in air core designs these days.
 
If I had a dollar for every time Tesla's name arises on this site, I'd be a wealthy man. :D
Now I can be two dollars richer, since I've already mentioned him once and now I'll do it again. :P
Tesla foresaw a day, when iron, the backbone of the industrial and electrical revolution, would not be needed in the construction of generators.
He was thankful for the ubiquity and cost of iron in his day but knew the limitations it imposes on his systems.


Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on August 28, 2016, 09:46:18 AM
That's one reason why I'm more interested in air core designs these days.

Hi hoptoad, My generator is an air core but also acts as its' own motor.
Do you have any examples of air core designs.
Thanks artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 28, 2016, 11:47:42 AM
snip..
Hi hoptoad, My generator is an air core but also acts as its' own motor.
Do you have any examples of air core designs.
Thanks artv
I have no examples to give that are either unique, out of the ordinary, or even terribly interesting, other than favorable power to weight ratio characteristics.
Your generator sounds interesting. Perhaps you could provide more info on its self motoring characteristics ?
Cheers



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Kator01 on August 28, 2016, 11:57:22 PM
my objection to this test is that this is no proof.
Why ?

1)
Due diligence demands another test without the neons.
I would expect the recovery-condenser charging faster without neons.

2)
without schematics this test remains just a claim... no proof.
Schematic would show if he has applied appropriate electronic means of capturing the the maximum possible collapse-energy.

regards
Kator


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 29, 2016, 04:16:18 PM
my objection to this test is that this is no proof.
Why ?

1)
Due diligence demands another test without the neons.
I would expect the recovery-condenser charging faster without neons.

2)
without schematics this test remains just a claim... no proof.
Schematic would show if he has applied appropriate electronic means of capturing the the maximum possible collapse-energy.

regards
Kator

 Kator,your just banging your head against a brick wall,if you think you will get any sense at all from Erfinder-or anything useful.
He will ask for your opinion,and in the next post,he will say that he was not asking for your opinion.

Example-post 208
Quote: Can we generate observable transient activity (in a neon), while recovering in the traditional sense in pulse motors?

Here he clearly asks a question.
And when you question his video  ::)--well here is what you get in reply.

Post 211
Quote: I am not asking you nor anyone here anything, I am telling you something.

So in one post,he is asking everyone a question,and in the next post he is not asking anyone anything :D

What he showed in his video,is once again-nothing new.
I once thought he was miles ahead,but now i see just how far behind he is.

............................................________
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?......................................................,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,...........................`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_..........._,-%.......`
...................................,



Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Grumage on August 29, 2016, 04:48:45 PM
Dear Brad.

I read Erfinder's post a little differently.

" I am telling you something "

I might have also worded it.... " I am showing you something "

One mans personal opinion.

Cheers Grum.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 29, 2016, 05:10:51 PM
Kator,your just banging your head against a brick wall,if you think you will get any sense at all from Erfinder-or anything useful.
He will ask for your opinion,and in the next post,he will say that he was not asking for your opinion.

snip
So in one post,he is asking everyone a question,and in the next post he is not asking anyone anything :D

What he showed in his video,is once again-nothing new.
I once thought he was miles ahead,but now i see just how far behind he is.


Brad




What you two guys are missing is that was a rhetorical question.... he knows the answer and is about to tell you.


Erfinder then posts a video which is self explanatory... but you both chose to get your backs up and deny what you saw, strange?


What you two have done is kill an interesting thread. I would like to have seen where he was taking us.


That and the other video in the side bar are top notch, precise and to the point, well filmed, camera on a tripod so no vertigo from a camera being waved about like a fire hose... no, "I like to talk non-stop for 20 minutes BS", I like it


Erfinder, don't let these bumps in the road deter you from posting more on these little conundrums ... that lead to learning.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 29, 2016, 07:21:02 PM





Personal attacks are counter productive, period. All they do is put on public display one's ignorance and emotional insecurity.


How can we expect a better world if here at the macro level we show no empathy, tolerance or understanding for our fellow researchers?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I hope you guys have been following Keshe?


Keshe said one thing that really caught my attention.

The Soul of a man manifests fields, so many that he has a physical body. That is what Souls do. A man can manifest anything he needs, and take from the universe what he needs. If he instead turns to greed, and does not give of his abundance to others, the universe cannot give any more to him, as he is full.

 
So the concept is to learn to give to others, of your abundance, and the Soul we are becomes satisfied.
This is a total reversing of the general attitude of the money concept, where we all have to compete to gain financial security just to survive. We are conditioned to take, hoard, and think only of ourselves, while others in the world starve.

 
 
A reversal of the entire system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxHYZDfyyc  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxHYZDfyyc)


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 29, 2016, 08:10:52 PM
@I_ron
Quote
What you two guys are missing is that was a rhetorical question.... he knows the answer and is about to tell you.

It is a matter of depth in my opinion and some peoples thoughts are like a lake ... expansive, deep and clear. Then we have others who's thoughts are like spilling a glass of water on the floor...shallow, transparent and predictable. I think most know exactly who we are referring to in this respect.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 29, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
@I_ron
It is a matter of depth in my opinion and some peoples thoughts are like a lake ... expansive, deep and clear. Then we have others who's thoughts are like spilling a glass of water on the floor...shallow, transparent and predictable. I think most know exactly who we are referring to in this respect.

AC


Although thinly disguised that is still character assassination. Do we need that?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 30, 2016, 01:27:18 AM
@i_ron
Quote
Although thinly disguised that is still character assassination. Do we need that?


Your statement reminds me of a science article I once read concerning intelligence and a complex binary number sequence experiment. The experiment is as follows, the subject walks into a white room with a red table and on the table is a grey metal box, a pad of white paper and a yellow pencil with a pink eraser. The metal box has four clear blue plastic buttons labelled 1, 2, 3, 4 and next to it a red light. They are given specific instructions: There are 5040 possible combinations and if you choose the correct one the red light will come on and you can open the box and collect your prize. You will be given X amount of time and when the time runs out the test is finished.


The most intelligent people spent the most time doing calculations determining the exact odds and most likely combinations then proceeded to input the correct combinations. The average people had weak mathematical and memory skills so they wrote down the combinations as they tried them so they wouldn't forget what they had done, a methodical approach which I might try. The least intelligent people had no idea so they first tried random combinations hoping to get lucky. Then they forgot what they were doing and started writing the numbers they tried down on the pad after the fact like the average people.


Obviously complex number sequences and mathematics is not for everyone nor is finding solutions to complex number problems. However the experiment revealed something remarkable because all of the groups mentioned above failed the test except for a very small number of test subjects. These great minds did something extraordinary and didn't listen to the instructions, they didn't calculate the odds nor did they jump to conclusions. They sat there for a while and then simply opened the box because it was never locked.


There is no need to assassinate anyone's character as you say because we do this quite well all by ourselves. As well now that you mention it who's character do you think I was assassinating because I didn't mention anyone by name but I'm sure everyone has someone in mind. I guess the obvious question is who's name came to mind and why because I don't know what others are thinking. Thus we come full circle don't we?, and it is this preconceived notion of things which generally comes round to bite us in the ass. Such is life in this strange place we call home.


On a note of interest I consider Erfinder a great mind but much more important to me a genuinely good person and hopefully the unthinking hordes with honed pitchforks and torches blazing do not sway his resolve, you are lucky to have him.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on August 30, 2016, 04:35:35 AM
Quote from: AC
On a note of interest I consider Erfinder a great mind but much more important to me a genuinely good person and hopefully the unthinking hordes with honed pitchforks and torches blazing do not sway his resolve, you are lucky to have him.


Yes, Erfinder is miles ahead of me.  But if I ever figure some of it out and can do it myself, I promise all of you will be able to as well.  Maybe it's where I'm at in life's journey.  Seems I can teach better than I can learn.

Erfinder is also very easy to get along with.  All you need to do is think for yourself and bring something new to the table.  Just don't be surprised if what you think is new, he's seen and done years ago.  Some of the long hours I spent with him would cost a small fortune to get by way of formal education.  I kick myself for not taking better notes.    :-[
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 30, 2016, 02:46:27 PM




Personal attacks are counter productive, period. All they do is put on public display one's ignorance and emotional insecurity.


How can we expect a better world if here at the macro level we show no empathy, tolerance or understanding for our fellow researchers?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I hope you guys have been following Keshe?


Keshe said one thing that really caught my attention.

The Soul of a man manifests fields, so many that he has a physical body. That is what Souls do. A man can manifest anything he needs, and take from the universe what he needs. If he instead turns to greed, and does not give of his abundance to others, the universe cannot give any more to him, as he is full.

 
So the concept is to learn to give to others, of your abundance, and the Soul we are becomes satisfied.
This is a total reversing of the general attitude of the money concept, where we all have to compete to gain financial security just to survive. We are conditioned to take, hoard, and think only of ourselves, while others in the world starve.

 
 
A reversal of the entire system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxHYZDfyyc  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwxHYZDfyyc)


Ron

Couldnt agree more Ron,but i give what is given to me.

My post to you regarding my new L.A.G build
Post 73-->Ok,so i have given the L.A.G it's first run.
Below is a scope shot across each gen coil-blue trace is one gen coil,and yellow the other gen coil.
I have a 10 ohm load on each gen coil,and as expected,the motor speeds up under load--quite a bit more than i was expecting,along with a 50%+ drop in P/in
The output on the gen coils is being clamped ATM,by a 12 volt battery being used to arrest the BackEMF spike on the primary coils.
Will post more as i get all the circuit put together,and cleaned up.

Erfinders reponce to my work
Post 75

............................................________
....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?......................................................,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:"........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,__......`,.................................
...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,...........................`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_..........._,-%.......`
...................................,


Look familiar ?.

And another from Erfinder toward me.

Post 89
I am in no hurry to share anything with you.  You got everyone thinking you got it all figured out anyway.  I am enjoying the sideline laughing my ass off at your conjecture.  The longer one reads your posts and views your presentations, and then does ones own homework, and compares what one learns from what one reads /views from you, the more one sees that you are just as lost today as you were when you first started....
That one vague video of mine reveals more about what can be done, and the path which should be taken than your LAG, a title which has no justification, ever will. The thing I get the biggest kick out of is recognizing that you have no idea where the power you are desperately seeking is supposed to be coming from.  Its depressing watching you struggle with the concepts surrounding the acceleration concept, its even more depressing watching you drag the gullible from experiment to experiment and then dropping them off there, leaving them with the same questions that they started with.  If this weren't enough, the constant bitching and complaining and whining has literally stripped you of all street credit.  The scope and meters are more important than the ideas, and anyone who thinks opposite is an idiot?  I am fed the fuck up with all this, your term RUBBISH, and I am not alone, but the others will not voice their opinion, oh well....some one has to say something.
And all this from a guy who has yet to graduate from the SG circuit....This from a guy who has replicated every promising pulse motor concept, making it your business to show that the person you are replicating doesn't know what hes doing.  You sir don't know what you're doing, but you like to lead others to believe you do, fine and dandy, gonna need to draw out a map for all those garden paths you've led folk down.  One of my favorite fuck ups of yours pertains to the Zero Force Motor, I thought it was really amusing how you went out of your way to suggest that your misnamed concept is superior to that concept, its not, and you would know this had you done your homework on the subject, the concept and the associated principles, known and unknown to the public are old.  , a sick joke being played on the gullible, and a slap in the face to all who paved the way, you would be wise to review history.

So,if you (Ron),or anyone else think i am going to take shit like this from this ass hat,im sorry,but that is not going to happen.

Truth is,Erfinder has shown you nothing new,and if you think he has,then feel free to post it.

I see a video where two neon's light up,a cap charging,and an incandescent bulb lighting up--whats the big deal-->do you guys not know about  RF skin effect? .Would you think it magic if i showed a 3 volt LED surviving a voltage of over 200 volts across it, while happily lit with constant DC ?

When people say things like !!The LAG is an abomination!! about my work,then they will get the same in return. The big difference here is,i do not talk in riddles,and i share what i have.

Sorry guy's,but i dont take crap like that from anyone that disrespects the work i do,the way Erfinder has.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 30, 2016, 04:55:11 PM
@i_ron
snip


There is no need to assassinate anyone's character as you say because we do this quite well all by ourselves. As well now that you mention it who's character do you think I was assassinating because I didn't mention anyone by name but I'm sure everyone has someone in mind. I guess the obvious question is who's name came to mind and why because I don't know what others are thinking. Thus we come full circle don't we?, and it is this preconceived notion of things which generally comes round to bite us in the ass. Such is life in this strange place we call home.


On a note of interest I consider Erfinder a great mind but much more important to me a genuinely good person and hopefully the unthinking hordes with honed pitchforks and torches blazing do not sway his resolve, you are lucky to have him.


AC


A C, as a fellow Canuck I accept your very graceful backing away from your previous post.


Now if I can just tweak your last sentence to read..."we are lucky to have him"


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 30, 2016, 05:09:27 PM
Couldn't agree more Ron,but i give what is given to me.
snip

Sorry guy's,but i dont take crap like that from anyone that disrespects the work i do,the way Erfinder has.

Brad


Human nature being what it is... if you treat someone like a piece of shit then all that comes back is shit. What you might be overlooking is your previous comments and responses that led up to this. A less emotional response is the best response, always!


Sound good? Good, then we won't go into my relationship with Thane or Matt, LOL


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on August 30, 2016, 05:34:39 PM

Yes, Erfinder is miles ahead of me.  But if I ever figure some of it out and can do it myself, I promise all of you will be able to as well.  Maybe it's where I'm at in life's journey.  Seems I can teach better than I can learn.

Erfinder is also very easy to get along with.  All you need to do is think for yourself and bring something new to the table.  Just don't be surprised if what you think is new, he's seen and done years ago.  Some of the long hours I spent with him would cost a small fortune to get by way of formal education.  I kick myself for not taking better notes.    :-[


I can't say it better, in my time with him on emails and Skype I came away with the impression that he is very sincere, friendly, and helpful. He has some top of the line equipment, knows how to use it and is a master craftsman in his builds. Being a bit of a builder myself I am strongly biased in this direction and while I don't denigrate builders who don't have a machine shop in their lab I always am amazed and delighted at their perseverance and inventiveness. Kone is a good example of the get some pieces from the hardware store and build, "get er done"... he is a prolific builder. Then there are some more polished builders like Brad, Luc, Clanzer, possibly even myself. Then there is the creme de la creme of builders like Nali with outstanding graphics skills and impeccable building skills that are inspiring to say the least. I put erfinder's builds right up there. On Skype he was demonstrating a device for me and a couple of spins with his fingers and on to manipulate the scope while it (the device) ran down over minutes. Needless to say I was impressed with his knowledge and the design and implementation of his  devices.


And proud to add him to my list that says, "Friend"


Ron



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on August 31, 2016, 04:28:50 AM
:)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 31, 2016, 08:23:25 AM
 author=Erfinder link=topic=15307.msg490680#msg490680 date=1472570227]




Quote
No untrue, or exaggerated statements were made....You do yourself a disservice by highlighting that post.....every bit of it is true.

Only you would think that what cant be seen dose not exist--your mistake,not mine.

Quote
Truth as you see it isn't truth, its truth as you see it.  Fact is, I am showing something new to all who choose to appreciate it. This party is just starting, when it reaches climax depends on the vested interests, it's not a one man show like it has been...it's not about you.

Only you would think you have something new,when in actual fact,it is only new to you.
You think known science dose not know what you do?.

Quote
You would have demonstrated great wisdom by stopping at "what's the big deal...."  Everything that followed where you should have stopped, shows you are clueless as to what's going on in that stupid simple quick demo, and have offered your best wrong guess.  This isn't a guessing game.

Everything is a guessing game with you Erfinder-always has been.

Quote
The LAG is an abomination, and the rotary transformer was/is an unfinished abomination.  Feel free to comment on my non existing work.  You share what you have, and have shared nothing, from this one can safely assume you have nothing?  The ignorant have demonstrated time and time again that they are the only ones who think I talk in riddles.

The ignorant make assumptions that something is not finished,because they have not seen the finished product.
The rotary transformer is far from your reach,so please refrain from making judgement on something you know nothing about.

Quote
I don't make hour long videos that say nothing.

No-you make short video's that say even less.

You have nothing that comes even remotely close to the rotary transformer,but you are of course welcome to put your best up against it  ;).

What i have found in the past year,is many have lots to say(like your self),but when it comes to the crunch of answering a challenge-you,like many others,never have the balls to put your money where your mouth is-so to speak.

If you would like to be the third person to see what the !finished! rotary transformer can do,then challenge me with the best you have.
We will then see who has the abomination,and who has the good's.

I predict that you will not put your self in this position-like the many before you who made the same claims against me,through  fear of everyone else finding out who is the real deal,and who is nothing more than words on a page.

I practice induction, I don't just read about it and play with it in motors and generators.

Thats great,as i only play with motors and generator.
It (the challenge) should be a hands down win for you,as i am so far behind ;D

You have made claims against my work,and so now it's time you justify those claims.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Meta on August 31, 2016, 08:55:44 AM
erFINDER AND GENTLEMEN,

Ive watched you for a while now. Dont talk of metaphysics, circuits that are claimed to be working but "you just cant see it",  here, unless you want it measured and analyzed with science equipment, which it cant be.

Subjects like Keshe are so metaphysical it cant be discussed until you understand that intent drive the coils.

There are Keshe coils that are being built and sold in South America, by a group of friends I know of, who say, they are making successful electricity generating coils and the coils take time to be conditioned to produce more and more electricity daily using the intent of the operators. In the Northern hemisphere, Keshe is failing miserably. The measurers and doubters make sure of it. This is metaphysics and its beyond physics. There cannot be proof here. Its not measurable.

Perhaps we are successful or fail according to our intent.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on August 31, 2016, 11:02:20 AM
Perhaps you could provide more info on its self motoring characteristics ?

I collect generated output in cap banks and then once per rev dump that back into the coils.
My build is constantly changing, always trying different things, one set-up was strange though and am trying to build it again , I would fire the coils for drive only for an instant and 180 deg. later the coils were giving a big kick to the rotation , a much bigger kick than the original dump.
It's like the coils themselves were acting like caps somehow.
I like to see the work of others sometimes it helps.
Thanks to all who contribute.
artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on August 31, 2016, 12:25:34 PM
snip....
    one set-up was strange though and am trying to build it again , I would fire the coils for drive only for an instant and 180 deg. later the coils were giving a big kick to the rotation , a much bigger kick than the original dump.
It's like the coils themselves were acting like caps somehow.
Interesting effect.
I like to see the work of others sometimes it helps.
Thanks to all who contribute.
artv
Yes, I like to see the work of others too. Like most here, I suffer from severe curiosity.  :)  An ailment I'm happy to bear. ;)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on August 31, 2016, 03:17:13 PM
The ignore function works, just wanted to share that in case anyone felt the need to use it, I just added two individuals.  Felt good.....




Regards
Ah,i see.

Was to be expected-and was as predicted.

Lets hope those here do not choose to ignore those who have given freely-and will continue to do so.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on August 31, 2016, 07:15:39 PM
Quote from: Erfinder
Action and reaction are not sequential, they are not equal opposite, they are simultaneous-sequential, they are asymmetrical.

See, you do these things to us that make our heads hurt based on our learned definition of each word.

I get the concept, only because it came from you, but from anyone else, I would say to them, you're full of shit.  You can't be "at the same time" AND "in sequence".  Sequence infers order as in first, last.  Simultaneous infers exactly together in lock-step.

There has to be some words out there in the vast Aether that better describe this concept.  Something like cause and effect linkage, a recursive concept.  A condition where the cause comes from the effect as well as the effect coming from the cause.  An unbreakable bond of two distinct components that cannot be observed as anything but a singularity.

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on August 31, 2016, 09:33:06 PM
So when motoring , generation is happening, and when generating, motoring is happening?
The problem is they cancel, unless you can switch the operations on and off at the right times.

I've seen where you dump one cap bank for drive and makes another bank collecting generation jump by 30 percent.
Lenz is part of the function , no way around it that I can see, just need to design the system to take advantage of Lenz instead of eliminating it.
It has all to do with magnetic fields, the more fields you add , the more complicated it gets.
One field acts one way, Two fields act another , now add several ,whole new ball game.
I think everything is a result of interacting magnetic fields, the more the merrier.
artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 01, 2016, 12:47:39 AM
@Erfinder,


Did you build a Transforming Generator replica?  The reason I ask is because I'm looking into Jim Murray's SERPS concept and I'd like to know as much about the the T.G. as possible.  I was speaking with another forum member and they suggested that you may have built one.   If so, do you have some youtube video links of any significant findings?


Thanks,


Dave


[size=78%]
[/size]
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 01, 2016, 10:21:04 AM
snip....
Sound good? Good, then we won't go into my relationship with Thane or Matt, LOL
Ron
LOL. I do remember you and I, and a few others, apparently being a thorn in the side of a certain TH.
But I don't actually remember any meanness from either of us. (Maybe I'm being selective, LOL) Though I do remember myself and yourself and a few others copping a lot of flak, and obfuscation from the other side of the opinion divide.  ;D

From memory, Nali hammered the final objective nail on the subject at hand.

Glad to see you're still actively tinkering. I've not done much tinkering with anything in the past few years, too busy earning a living, too tired during time off to get motivated.

I'm currently working two low paid part time jobs. Worst pay ever. Ironically, they are the best jobs I've ever had for earning that feeling of personal fulfillment. I started doing community and disability support work a few months ago, after doing the coursework and getting the qualifications needed. Shifts are short, many, with varying localities and times. And I'm loving it. Never a dull moment, with characters galore.

Cheers Ron... and keep on keepin' Ron!
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 01, 2016, 12:12:25 PM
snip...
The majority only consider "recovery", (kickback, the spike) the sequential effect of a well understood cause.  They are oblivious to the simultaneous aspect of recovery because those who provided them with that which they possess didn't tell them about the simultaneous aspect of recovery.
snip...
Regards
@Erfinder
Just to clarify my own thoughts again, would it be fair to say that you may be alluding to the transformer effect outlined in 'Fig 19'.?
I think I'm thinking in the same general direction as you, as I re-visit the past, but I am still not really sure if we're on the same page yet. I may need a few lines drawn in for me.  :)
Cheers
Note* If people think I'm being cryptic, I'm simply referring to a diagram 'Fig 19' that I posted on a blog years ago regarding Adams motors.
For those who may be curious about what I'm alluding to, here's a link. It may or not contain info relevant to Erfinders current work, but you may still find it interesting to your own works re-pulsed motor-generators.
Go to page six. Scroll down to Fig 19.
http://hoptoads.5gbfree.com (http://hoptoads.5gbfree.com)

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 01, 2016, 12:50:29 PM
I remember that.....No, while I am referring to transformer action, I am not applying it like you are.  There are two key differences between what you are suggesting and what I am doing.
One, I prefer mosfets.....you know why......
Two, the second winding should not be rectified in this manner.....regardless of negative associations.
Regards
Cheers. Thanks for the lines! There's probably going to be a big time lag between me absorbing fresh information and actually putting it into practice . LOL Somebody hold that bus, I'm running late, again!
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 01, 2016, 03:15:12 PM



Nope I haven't but I did build an air core, single phase, pulsed DC machine which exhibits the same phenomena that he references here:


https://youtu.be/HK3JOlY0V8Y?t=2520


I completely support the idea that beat frequency generation is involved here.  Of all that he is demonstrating, this concept has the most promise in my opinion, especially as it relates to air core systems.




Regards

So his latest motor draws 19 amps at 100 volts,and has no load on it.
So we have a 1.9Kw noisy heater--thats fantastic  ::)

Can anyone point me in the direction of any efficiency tests that Jim Murray has done on any of his machines ?,as i cant seem to find just one.

Sad times indeed to see so many bright minds being hoodwinked.



Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 01, 2016, 04:21:09 PM

Motoring and generating are always taking place at the same time.  So far I have only mentioned the simultaneous-sequential nature of cause and effect as it applies to recovery.  I have not said anything regarding motoring and generating proper.  Were I to agree with you, I would be saying nothing you don't know already.  The generation that you are familiar with, the one operating inside your motor winding, is not being harvested.  Can it be harvested? 



Lenz offered us a way to look at things, that's it.  We can choose to follow his lead, or we can blaze our own trail guided by his suggestion.  I practice the latter. To truly neutralize the effect that Lenz has on your system you simply need to comprehend what he's saying.  I suggested that beat generation is the solution, it says it all, when you recognize what's being said, when you comprehend what's being implied.  Murray said the motor would need 1500v to run without the caps.....I know why the amperage shot up, cause I built a machine that does the same thing.  The resident basher says it's stupid....and this only because he don't get it, he only sees a heater......  My god, some (one in particular) are so blind, and you people put these folks in charge.....




Regards

Looks like the ignore function is broken :D
Who are !you! people,and who is the folks in charge?.

How is Jim Murray's motors and generators coming alone--i mean,it has been !how many! years now ?

Look at the title of the video
Man Solves Tesla’s Secret To Amplifying Power By Nearly 5000%

Another lie,and a great insult to a great man(Tesla)

Jim Murray has solved nothing,as is evident in his video
Amplifies power by nearly 5000%-->another lie. He dose not even have a motor or generator that operates at 95% efficiency.
All he has so far is !nothing!

And another mis-direction on Murrays behalf
We have 55 foot pounds of torque,and only drawing 2.28 amp's of current  :o

What is torque without motion?
What is amp's without voltage ?

How can you promote rubbish like this Erfinder,and still sleep at night.
Do you not have the slightest bit of respect for the fellow members that are following you ?.

So many of them were on the right track,and now they are being pulled into the bottomless pit of nothingness--by you.

Sleep well


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 01, 2016, 05:28:55 PM
LOL. I do remember you and I, and a few others, apparently being a thorn in the side of a certain TH.
But I don't actually remember any meanness from either of us. (Maybe I'm being selective, LOL) Though I do remember myself and yourself and a few others copping a lot of flak, and obfuscation from the other side of the opinion divide.  ;D

snip

Cheers Ron... and keep on keepin' Ron!


Good to hear from you hoptoad... and here we are still at it, eh?


Just to keep the record straight with TH, overall it was a grand time. He is an honourable man, the work I did for him was supposed to have been just my cost for materials yet he always paid me more than I asked for, even sent me some of his art work...he was an artist, did you know? and quite good. It was unfortunate that the squabbles were on a public forum, but that is life I guess.


I do things for fun, so your, 'no meanness' hits the nail on the head exactly.


Take care mate


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 01, 2016, 09:42:52 PM

If I were asked to pick a hero Murray or Brad.....it's a no brainer.

Regards
 


Right on!!! I would pick Brad also! Glad that is over and done with....


(Humour)


Ron


   

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 01, 2016, 11:45:10 PM



Nope I haven't but I did build an air core, single phase, pulsed DC machine which exhibits the same phenomena that he references here:


https://youtu.be/HK3JOlY0V8Y?t=2520 (https://youtu.be/HK3JOlY0V8Y?t=2520)


I completely support the idea that beat frequency generation is involved here.  Of all that he is demonstrating, this concept has the most promise in my opinion, especially as it relates to air core systems.




Regards


Can you link me to a starting point to read more about this machine?


Thanks


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 10:05:13 AM

Right on!!! I would pick Brad also! Glad that is over and done with....


(Humour)


Ron


 



Hi Ron - I completely agree.

I bet money that no one will take Brad's Build Off Challenge!!! For the sake of saving one’s self from drowning in Rock Solid Science and Basic Fundamentals.

So, who here is up for it?

Brad, how about you and I, in a Build Off... We lay down some guidelines, start with some fundamentals and then kick it up a gear!

My E-Motor experience is little, I would not expect to win, but for the sake of actually learning something and gaining some knowledge, sharing some hard provable data with my colleagues, with real videos and real data, and showing something of value, I will be keen. I sure am not scared to learn something new! Hey, maybe, it's a long shot, but I may Win???

Because, really, there is just far too much talk!!! Decades of BS from the professional BSérs!!!

Which, by the way, I know will not participate in the Challange!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 10:26:08 AM



We could use GNU Licensing:

Quote from: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLHardware

Can I use the GPL to license hardware? (#GPLHardware)


Any material that can be copyrighted can be licensed under the GPL. GPLv3 can also be used to license materials covered by other copyright-like laws, such as semiconductor masks. So, as an example, you can release a drawing of a physical object or circuit under the GPL.

In many situations, copyright does not cover making physical hardware from a drawing. In these situations, your license for the drawing simply can't exert any control over making or selling physical hardware, regardless of the license you use. When copyright does cover making hardware, for instance with IC masks, the GPL handles that case in a useful way.



To protect from Thieves and Wroghters that Thieve Others Work and sleep well at night, stone cold low Lifes!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 11:11:28 AM



Lets get some Guidelines going, No particular Order:

   1: Entrants must agree on the same baseline Type/Make/Model of Motor.
   2: Entrants must document at every stage for the final entry.
   3: Entrants must be willing to concede to the voters.
   4: Circuits must be accurate and disclosed to the voters.
   5: Entrants must be serious about this challange!
   6: All submitted videos must be longer than 30 seconds.
   7: Videos must show the entire device, nothing hidden and nothing secret.
   8: All data must be Scientific and Real, no fairy tale BS...
   9: If the entrant chooses, torque and electrical output can be included in the Data. Both must be recorded at the same time.
   10: Major modifications must be passed by the other entrants, but Permanent Magnets can be added.
   
Gee Help me out guys!!! What else?

Also: "beat frequency generation" - Really? You really dont know what this is? What do you think Brad, you think "beat frequency generation" is a good accurate term for what Jim Murray is showing there?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 02, 2016, 03:10:57 PM
 author=EMJunkie link=topic=15307.msg490838#msg490838 date=1472803513]



Because, really, there is just far too much talk!!! Decades of BS from the professional BSérs!!!

Which, by the way, I know will not participate in the Challange!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

The proof is always in the video Chris,and it is in plain sight in Jim Murray's video as well.
But the fact is,when some one like Erfinder start to promote such rubbish,others tend not to bother looking at things carefully,and just believe what they are told.
Either Jim is very stupid,or is being very deceitful-or he may have simply not understood what he was seeing,or just missed it altogether.Lets give Jim the benefit of doubt,and say he just dose not understand eddy current heating,and conversion of that heat into electrical power,as this is exactly what is happening with the demo of his early dynaflux generator-conversion of eddy current heat into electrical power.

Lets look at the original dynaflux generator,and the claims being made in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2520

First the claim
At 12:30 in the video Jim states that the machine(the dynaflux generator) hardly reflects the load to the prime mover,when the load(two bulbs) are switched on.

That is absolute rubbish.
In fact,the machine(the generator) presents a very large load on the prime mover,only Jim dose not see it-nor do most that watch these sorts of scams.

Unfortunately for Jim,his video shows that the dynaflux generator places a huge load on the prime mover,and  only delivers 13.07% of the load that the generator places on the prime mover,to the bulbs. :o
The efficiency of the generator is the worst i have seen,and we can make accurate calculations using the information in Jim's own video.
P/in total =556.32 watts
P/out to bulbs=40.09 watts.
Efficiency=7.2%  :D

Erfinder says that Jim Murray is !tha man!,and i say that Jim Murray has no idea what he is doing or looking for,or is being out right deceitful--> i would think lack of understanding what he is seeing would be more the case

This is why Erfinder thinks Jim is the man,as he is just as lost as Jim is,and dose not understand what he is looking at.

Erfinder will not challenge me on this,as he knows i can present the good's-show,explain,and prove that the dynaflux generator places a huge load on the prime mover,and delivers very little of that extra load to the bulbs-->only 13.07% of the extra power is delivered to the bulbs,and the rest is waste heat.
Like i said,it's a great heater.

To others on this thread
You can mock and hate me all you like,but facts are facts--and all the proof is in Jims video it self.
You can choose to continue on blindly,or you can be true to your self--your call.

If anyone here would like me to back up my claim's,using only Jims own video,i am more than happy to do so.

Also: "beat frequency generation"  What do you think Brad, you think "beat frequency generation" is a good accurate term for what Jim Murray is showing there

No Chris
Once again,Jim is lost,and dose not know what  AC Induction motor slip is-so he came up with beat frequency generation  :D
I can(and have) replicated this effect using an !off the shelf! AC induction motor,and variac--it's that simple. At low voltages,where the frequency remains at 50/60Hz,the motor will !slip!. When the voltage gets high enough,the poles of the motor will grab the frequency,and synchronize with it.
This is exactly what Jim shows in his video--no !beat! frequency there.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 02, 2016, 03:19:07 PM


Lets get some Guidelines going, No particular Order:

   1: Entrants must agree on the same baseline Type/Make/Model of Motor.
   2: Entrants must document at every stage for the final entry.
   3: Entrants must be willing to concede to the voters.
   4: Circuits must be accurate and disclosed to the voters.
   5: Entrants must be serious about this challange!
   6: All submitted videos must be longer than 30 seconds.
   7: Videos must show the entire device, nothing hidden and nothing secret.
   8: All data must be Scientific and Real, no fairy tale BS...
   9: If the entrant chooses, torque and electrical output can be included in the Data. Both must be recorded at the same time.
   10: Major modifications must be passed by the other entrants, but Permanent Magnets can be added.
   
Gee Help me out guys!!! What else?

Also: "beat frequency generation" - Really? You really dont know what this is? What do you think Brad, you think "beat frequency generation" is a good accurate term for what Jim Murray is showing there?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Sounds like fun Chris.
Im in if you can get Erfinder to accept the challenge as well,as it is he that stated my works are abominations,and my challenge is to those that have much to say about my work,but never have the balls to challenge it.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 03:19:25 PM



Brad, none of my posts were directed at you, all at Erfinder and his Fairy Tale Science BS!

I only meant to offend Erfinder, who else do you know that makes 30 second videos showing nothing but Hot Air!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 05:10:33 PM

Ah there he is....the one.....the only.....mr. non existing self assisting oscillations (as seen on his scope....in an hour long presentation where you only hear static noises when he connects and disconnects a coil....rubbish....) ABOMINATION......partnered output coils are a sad joke.....you need three coils, not two jackass....I hope you are taking notes....this is how you offend someone.


And as far as the challenge goes.....you boys got me shaking in my boots....I think I wet myself.....being of the unreasonable, weak sort, you felt it necessary to tag team me, unfortunate, were this not the case, I may have considered, it's out of the question now.  You both have done a piss poor fine job at demonstrating (uh not....) that I only practice junk science.....I am so ashamed....I am a lost cause, cause I see what Jim Murray has and understand how to  use it, I'm stupid because I can respect the significance of generating beat frequencies, and can but won't sight examples of others who have done the same in the past and are doing it today....I am the definition of whatever you say, and you know what, I can live with that.  Why, because what you say to me or about me doesn't sustain, nor take away from who and what I am and represent. 


If you think that you or your partner in crime are going to run me off, because I don't speak the agreed upon language, you got another thing coming.  The smart thing to do would be to ignore me till I put my foot in my own mouth.  Not going to happen, but I will do my absolute best to keep sounding stupid for you two.....You two are at the heart of the problem within the community.  You think you are helping folk, but you aren't.  What are you helping them with, let me see.....ah yes....you are helping them to conform.  You aren't helping them to see things as they choose, as did those who came before the laws were penned?  So much information, so many long videos, so many debates, belittlements, battles, and what do you have to show for all your effort, what do the followers have to show for your effort (don't show me the stuff your groupies have done, not interested in that...) what has anyone gained from your insights, I can sum it up in one word....NOTHING.  Chris.....you spend a lot of time here, things not going well for you and yours in that private group....If I had such a group, I wouldn't be here.....that's just me....You both glorify yourselves, your work, my this my that....you offend my work....blah blah...You ass clowns or as brad says, asshats, (stupid) offend (specifically brad) those who have been working for decades, men with real educations, real experience...WTF?  To hell with you both and anyone else in your posse, you both have nothing, and with any luck, you'll never will have more than that two day old sandwich on your desk with the soft shit butter spread. 


Hot air.....I like that.....lots of good done with hot air....hair dryers....hot air balloons....gliders work on thermals don't they.....BS science can be used to generate hot air....From the junkies mouth, BS has practical value...




Retards


So, I guess this is your odd way of accepting this Challange - Brads Build Off Challange? - Put your Work where your Mouth is, let that do the talking for a while!!!

Are you able to squeze out a Yes or No?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 02, 2016, 05:17:34 PM
@tinman

Quote
Once again,Jim is lost,and dose not know what  AC Induction motor slip is-so he came up with beat frequency generation  [/size]I can(and have) replicated this effect using an !off the shelf! AC induction motor,and variac--it's that simple. At low voltages,where the frequency remains at 50/60Hz,the motor will !slip!. When the voltage gets high enough,the poles of the motor will grab the frequency,and synchronize with it.



You can prove the beat frequency phenomena for yourself quite easily Brad. Take two brushed DC motors and connect them in series electrically and when you spin one (the generator) the other one (the motor) spins. Now add a small parallel capacitance across the motor and we have effectively added an LC tank circuit to the equation which is what Jim Murray is talking about.


Think of it this way brad, I have two pulleys and a belt connecting them and if the belt is tight then the transmission of force is constant like DC. Now let's loosen the belt and let it start to vibrate like our LC tank does. At which point the inertia of the drive belt itself and it's small loss/gain in motion may periodically increase or decrease the speed of either the drive or load pulley.


We find that the belt oscillation overdrives the load pulley and then because the belt is connecting the two pulley's and oscillating the load pulley then transfers this energy to the drive pulley... then repeats. I know these things because I'm a farm boy and I have a knack for having machinery vibrate itself apart at the drop of a hat.


You can also use a two pendulum system as I have built to show the effect better. Take a lever with a fulcrum in the middle then attach one pendulum to each end of the lever. Set one pendulum in motion and you will see an alternation where one pendulum slows as the other increases then at some point the energy transfer reverses. The pendulum which was increasing is now slowing and the pendulum which was slowing is now increasing. These are oscillating/alternating systems and are easy to understand.


I'm not sure where your going here because I have absolutely no issues proving what you say cannot be done in both mechanical and electrical systems. It's not a problem in fact I have more of a problem trying to get rid of the phenomena than I do creating it.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 02, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
You can't read......Not no, Hell no....




I have no interest in joining your boy band....HELL NO.  The two of you can work that out on your own.


What are you scared of, no pink crayons at the party?

Put your work where your mouth is. Lets do it.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 02, 2016, 05:51:17 PM
@tinman


 


Think of it this way brad, I have two pulleys and a belt connecting them and if the belt is tight then the transmission of force is constant like DC. Now let's loosen the belt and let it start to vibrate like our LC tank does. At which point the inertia of the drive belt itself and it's small loss/gain in motion may periodically increase or decrease the speed of either the drive or load pulley.


We find that the belt oscillation overdrives the load pulley and then because the belt is connecting the two pulley's and oscillating the load pulley then transfers this energy to the drive pulley... then repeats. I know these things because I'm a farm boy and I have a knack for having machinery vibrate itself apart at the drop of a hat.


You can also use a two pendulum system as I have built to show the effect better. Take a lever with a fulcrum in the middle then attach one pendulum to each end of the lever. Set one pendulum in motion and you will see an alternation where one pendulum slows as the other increases then at some point the energy transfer reverses. The pendulum which was increasing is now slowing and the pendulum which was slowing is now increasing. These are oscillating/alternating systems and are easy to understand.





AC

OK AC,here is your challenge.
Show me any device that gains energy by way of this !so called! beat frequency phenomena .
I would also advise both your self and Erfinder to put forward your description of what beat frequency phenomena-or what beat frequency is to you?.

Quote
I'm not sure where your going here because I have absolutely no issues proving what you say cannot be done in both mechanical and electrical systems. It's not a problem in fact I have more of a problem trying to get rid of the phenomena than I do creating it.

You lost me her.
What are you referring to ?.

Quote
You can prove the beat frequency phenomena for yourself quite easily Brad. Take two brushed DC motors and connect them in series electrically and when you spin one (the generator) the other one (the motor) spins. Now add a small parallel capacitance across the motor and we have effectively added an LC tank circuit to the equation which is what Jim Murray is talking about.

No you havnt. The small parallel cap will act only as a smoothing cap-nothing more,and will have absolutely nothing to do with beat frequency generation.

I have provided accurate P/in --P/out measurements for Jims dynaflux generator,and as i stated-it is the worst i have seen.

Here is the truth

To once again quote the title of Jim Murrays video
Man Solves Tesla’s Secret To Amplifying Power By Nearly 5000%

Outright lie.
Said man has designed a generator that is only just above 7% efficient.

Avoided at all cost--the presentation of any accurate power measurements that show this 5000% amplification of power.
Avoided at all cost by way of misdirection by Erfinder,any evidence to back up Jim Murrays claims--the man Erfinder says !is tha man!

So the ball is in your court AC
Provide proof that !actual! beat frequency generation increases the efficiency of a motor or generator.

As i said,Jim is showing inductive frequency slip--nothing to do with beat frequency.

You can prove the beat frequency phenomena for yourself quite easily Brad. Take two brushed DC motors and connect them in series electrically and when you spin one (the generator) the other one (the motor) spins. Now add a small parallel capacitance across the motor and we have effectively added an LC tank circuit to the equation which is what Jim Murray is talking about.

Yes,this i can do in a heart beat,and show you with the scope that there is no beat frequency bollocks involved with this circuit you present.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 02, 2016, 06:00:39 PM

Ah there he is....the one.....the only.....mr. non existing self assisting oscillations (as seen on his scope....in an hour long presentation where you only hear static noises when he connects and disconnects a coil....rubbish....) ABOMINATION......partnered output coils are a sad joke.....you need three coils, not two jackass....I hope you are taking notes....this is how you offend someone.


And as far as the challenge goes.....you boys got me shaking in my boots....I think I wet myself.....being of the unreasonable, weak sort, you felt it necessary to tag team me, unfortunate, were this not the case, I may have considered, it's out of the question now.  You both have done a piss poor fine job at demonstrating (uh not....) that I only practice junk science.....I am so ashamed....I am a lost cause, cause I see what Jim Murray has and understand how to  use it, I'm stupid because I can respect the significance of generating beat frequencies, and can but won't sight examples of others who have done the same in the past and are doing it today....I am the definition of whatever you say, and you know what, I can live with that.  Why, because what you say to me or about me doesn't sustain, nor take away from who and what I am and represent. 


If you think that you or your partner in crime are going to run me off, because I don't speak the agreed upon language, you got another thing coming.  The smart thing to do would be to ignore me till I put my foot in my own mouth.  Not going to happen, but I will do my absolute best to keep sounding stupid for you two.....You two are at the heart of the problem within the community.  You think you are helping folk, but you aren't.  What are you helping them with, let me see.....ah yes....you are helping them to conform.  You aren't helping them to see things as they choose, as did those who came before the laws were penned?  So much information, so many long videos, so many debates, belittlements, battles, and what do you have to show for all your effort, what do the followers have to show for your effort (don't show me the stuff your groupies have done, not interested in that...) what has anyone gained from your insights, I can sum it up in one word....NOTHING.  Chris.....you spend a lot of time here, things not going well for you and yours in that private group....If I had such a group, I wouldn't be here.....that's just me....You both glorify yourselves, your work, my this my that....you offend my work....blah blah...You ass clowns or as brad says, asshats, (stupid) offend (specifically brad) those who have been working for decades, men with real educations, real experience...WTF?  To hell with you both and anyone else in your posse, you both have nothing, and with any luck, you'll never will have more than that two day old sandwich on your desk with the soft shit butter spread. 


Hot air.....I like that.....lots of good done with hot air....hair dryers....hot air balloons....gliders work on thermals don't they.....BS science can be used to generate hot air....From the junkies mouth, BS has practical value...




Retards

EMJ putting his two cents worth in had nothing to do with me cup cake,so stop being so dramatic  ::)

As for the rest of your post--bla.

How is Jim Murrays dynaflux generator looking now?--just over 7% efficient going by his own numbers in his own video.
Yea--he da man ;)

Where is his 5000% power amplification ?

All proof you will-and do avoid at all cost,just to keep your !Alice in wonderland! fairy tale going.


As i said,Tesla's good name once again dragged through the mud to promote lies.

Epic fail


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 02, 2016, 06:05:13 PM


Brad, none of my posts were directed at you, snip

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Same here Brad, no problem. The problem is, is that it has become a polarity issue where the group has to pick sides... this is nonsense.


If the different points of view could be presented with less "certainty" and left with a wee bit of wiggle room, then we could add and subtract without hostility taking place.


I want to be on good terms with both parties and not have to chose sides, OK?


Brad, sooner or later we come to understand that 98 % of the world has never heard of us and could care less ...and that of the remaining 2 % most will look favourably on us ... yet there will a tiny minority that hate (rather a strong word) us... that we can do nothing about, except  grin and bear it, no need to get all emotional about it.


So erfinder, you have the option to recognize that your approach is not having the desired effect and to change to a less confrontational style to better get your important message across would be a benefit to all.


Regards, Ron
 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 02, 2016, 06:11:32 PM
@tinman
Quote
Sounds like fun Chris.[/size]Im in if you can get Erfinder to accept the challenge as well,as it is he that stated my works are abominations,and my challenge is to those that have much to say about my work,but never have the balls to challenge it.


I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition however I have a different set of rules.


1) The motor/generator can have any configuration you want however to keep it simple the device should be no larger than let's say 20 lb.


2)The entire device as well as all associated circuitry must be clearly visible.


3)My favorite... No power supplies of any kind are allowed and the device must be electrically dead in every sense of the word at the start. However we are allowed to spin up the device by hand at the start to any RPM we can muster.


4)A storage capacitor of a value to be determined is allowed to store the output from the device which will also be the only electrical input allowed to the device. The capacitor will be at zero voltage at the start of the test.


5)A DMM or preferably an oscilloscope will show the voltage on the capacitor during the entire duration of the test.


You see this is where all the BS stops and either the capacitor voltage rises or it falls. The rate at which the capacitor voltage rises or falls determines the total efficiency. If the initial spin up at the start cannot generate enough power to charge the capacitor to operate the device and maintain it then your hooped.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 02, 2016, 06:37:20 PM
Let it be know that Eric Dollard was also a proponent of harmonic beat frequencies for 'energy synthesis'.  I hope nobody's foot gets too far into their mouth...


Dave

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 02, 2016, 07:06:22 PM
I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition

If you want to enter it as competitor, go for it.

However...

The beauty of an idea cannot be appreciated by individuals with dripping snots all over the screen captures.
It is a work of the mind and it cannot be really appreciated by any measuring device.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 02, 2016, 07:20:50 PM
What if the beat frequency is put into parallel resonant tank circuit ? ::)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Kator01 on September 02, 2016, 10:47:20 PM

Same here Brad, no problem. The problem is, is that it has become a polarity issue where the group has to pick sides... this is nonsense.


If the different points of view could be presented with less "certainty" and left with a wee bit of wiggle room, then we could add and subtract without hostility taking place. .......
....................


I want to be on good terms with both parties and not have to chose sides, OK?


.


Regards, Ron
 

I hate to do this, but I must remind you, ron,  that you started to take sides and polarised this topic when I posted my doubts ( reply #210) about the " we can " Vid by erfinder. You even posted this here in reply #214:

"What you two have done is kill an interesting thread. I would like to have seen where he was taking us."

So now the truth starts shining through this veil of illusion erfinder was trying to establish in order to distract attention from the topic of this thread.

By the way - to mention Keshe as an argument is the worst you can do to yourself after all we know now about this guy:

http://www.keshefacts.org/ (http://www.keshefacts.org/)
  https://keshefacts.wordpress.com/2016/03/ (https://keshefacts.wordpress.com/2016/03/)
Mike


 (https://keshefacts.wordpress.com/2016/03/)
 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 12:22:07 AM
What if the beat frequency is put into parallel resonant tank circuit ? ::)



Hey Forest - You’re quite right!

Several examples come to mind immediately: Kromrey Converter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8bweiJp8v0), John Bedini's G-Field Generator (http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/bedkrom.htm), Witts Fueless Generator (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ztt3R4Bu_0), the QEG (Based on the Wits Device), Jim Murrays What ever machine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y)

All devices except, the Kromrey Converter and John Bedini's G-Field Generator uses LC Tank Resonance to bring about this effect, which as Brad said creates Slip (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motor-slip-d_652.html) in these motors. If you like Speed relative reluctance on the Rotor.

But why, no one has looked into this further, why not?

The Fields, two of them at least, separately, Buck each other. There is a Timing and a relative level of Mutual Inductance between these Coils. As Coil Current, in the Tank, goes High, the Input Current is going Low in Time, each Field Bucks and thus the Noise.

Like I said, my Electric Motor Experience is poor, I have not spent much time experimenting with motors. I have studied this effect and experimented with it. I most certainly was not able to get any OU from my work on these motors. In-fact, as Brad said, my efficiency’s were very low.

But, not to say these devices don’t work, just mine were not very efficient. I most certainly am not here to shoot others work down just because I was not able to achieve a result.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: I should point out, in a different System, where one can adjust the relative Timing, then these Fields can give very different results. As we have seen for some time now: Action (http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/propulsion/2-every-action-has-an-equal-and-opposite.html), Reaction (http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/propulsion/2-every-action-has-an-equal-and-opposite.html), and Counter-Reaction (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/counter-reaction)


P.S: Why is Three the Magic Number? Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction... Newton's Laws of Motion...



P.P.S: Did you see that? See the clear difference:


Find the most simple means of generating one first.  No caps, its easier than you think, or have been led to believe....


Regards


Can you feel that? Yep, Erfinder has been Owned (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Owned) Again!!!


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 03, 2016, 12:51:09 AM
I hate to do this, but I must remind you, ron,  that you started to take sides and polarised this topic when I posted my doubts ( reply #210) about the " we can " Vid by erfinder. You even posted this here in reply #214:

"What you two have done is kill an interesting thread. I would like to have seen where he was taking us."

So now the truth starts shining through this veil of illusion erfinder was trying to establish in order to distract attention from the topic of this thread.

By the way - to mention Keshe as an argument is the worst you can do to yourself after all we know now about this guy:

http://www.keshefacts.org/ (http://www.keshefacts.org/)
  https://keshefacts.wordpress.com/2016/03/ (https://keshefacts.wordpress.com/2016/03/)
Mike



I guess you are right! At that time I was coming in on erfinders side... now I am coming in on Brad's side. Confused by the ongoing virulence? you could say so


However I stand corrected on Duff and Keshe. Thanks for the heads up! I knew Alex was and a certain energiser club but that was news to me. However I stand by the sentiment of the quote that I posted. To justify that, it is my opinion that these false fronts often sprinkle their work with actual facts to try and make it believable. Then it just becomes a matter of winnowing out the chaff.


Ron




Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 03, 2016, 01:40:58 AM
@tinman
Quote
OK AC,here is your challenge.[/size]Show me any device that gains energy by way of this !so called! beat frequency phenomena .I would also advise both your self and Erfinder to put forward your description of what beat frequency phenomena-or what beat frequency is to you?.


I didn't say or even imply there is an energy gain using two oscillators and a beat frequency I only gave a few examples where I have seen a beat frequency take place for myself.


As well so far as Erfinder and I are concerned I consider him a friend however we disagree on many things just as I disagree with you on many things. Erfinder and myself generally laugh about the fact we disagree and we try to convince each other we must be right but make no mistake there is always a mutual respect between us concerning each others work right or wrong. It is a mutual respect that one has made the effort, endless hours in search of something which may never come into being but there is always hope. That is our bond...hope and an absurd amount of experiments we hope will lead us in the right direction.


I thought this was pretty cool...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRpN9uLiouI
Now if we replaced the tuning forks with any two or more oscillators be it a physical oscillation or a field oscillation and we could get some interesting effects.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 03, 2016, 02:01:20 AM
Superheterodyne.

http://users.tpg.com.au/users/ldbutler/Superhet.htm

The idea of  using two frequencies to produce a third or beat frequency is a very old idea.  But can be a very useful thing to know as this article explains.

Carroll
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 02:06:28 AM
What if the beat frequency is put into parallel resonant tank circuit ? ::)

What if !some! here learn the difference between beat frequency propagation,-- nodes,and antinodes in electromagnetic standing waves. ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 02:29:26 AM
What if !some! here learn the difference between beat frequency propagation,-- nodes,and antinodes in electromagnetic standing waves. ;)


Brad



Hahahaha - Turbo Charged Induction - I like this idea!!!


Quote

Magnetic effects vary on the square of the Current.



   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 03:20:25 AM
 author=i_ron link=topic=15307.msg490912#msg490912 date=1472856669]






Quote
I guess you are right! At that time I was coming in on erfinders side... now I am coming in on Brad's side. Confused by the ongoing virulence? you could say so


However I stand corrected on Duff and Keshe. Thanks for the heads up! I knew Alex was and a certain energiser club but that was news to me. However I stand by the sentiment of the quote that I posted. To justify that, it is my opinion that these false fronts often sprinkle their work with actual facts to try and make it believable. Then it just becomes a matter of winnowing out the chaff.




Hi Ron

It's not about taking side's.
The existence of this forum is built on searching for truth's,and weeding out the rubbish from the roses. It is about presenting fact's,and removing fictions,and we do a good job most of the time-->but some times the weeds just keep coming back.

I will give you an example of fact and fiction--Jim Murray's dynaflux generator.
Here we will look at the first part of the video,which is about his original dynaflux generator.
In this video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y  at 12:30,he states that this machine(the dynaflux generator) presents no load on the prime mover when power is drawn from the generator.

Lucky for us,all the information is in the video,that clearly shows a very heavy load being placed on the generator.
I will show and explain as to why people are missing this load when Jim draws power from the generator to light the bulb's.

The first screenshot below shows the power being drawn by the prime mover to run both it self,and spin the generator assembly.
We can see that the power consumption is 127.9 watts.
Now remember,this is !before! the field magnet is switched on-->127.9 watts

The second screenshot shows the power consumption of the prime mover !after! the field magnet is switched on,but !before! a load is drawn from the generator-->the load is the two bulbs.
We can now see that the prime mover is drawing !wait for it!-->a wopping 434.62 watts of power-->and no load is being drawn from the generator yet :o

So we have gone from the prime mover drawing 127.9 watts,to it now drawing 434.62 watts ;)
That is a 339.8% increase in power consumption--and no load is being placed on the generator yet  :o. All Jim did was switch on the field magnet--nothing more.
The field magnet it self consumes 121.72 watts of power,but i have left that out of the calculation,as the electromagnet could be replaced with a PM.

Now,in the third screenshot below,Jim has connected the load(the two bulbs)to the generator,and those two bulbs are dissipating 40.09 watts of power.
This is the point where Jim states that the machine(the generator) hardly loads the prime mover  ::),when in actual fact,the prime mover was heavily loaded before Jim placed a load on the generator.
This load placed on the prime mover at the moment Jim switched on the field magnet,is in the form of eddy current generation,and the power used to create these eddy currents and resistive heat was 312.9 watts.

When Jim switches on the load to the generator(the two bulb's),and states that the generator places no load on the prime mover when doing so,is nothing more than rubbish,as the load was placed on the prime mover !before! he switched on the two bulbs.

The reason that no reflection was seen on the prime mover the moment he switched on the bulb's,is because some of that 312.9 watts of waste heat energy,was transformed into electrical energy to run the bulbs.

Can i prove that waste heat due to eddy currents can be converted into electrical energy-->you bet ya butt i can. And at the very same time,in the very same video,i show exactly what Jim show's,in that when i light my two bulbs,it places no load on the prime mover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IVxO94mcB0


Now you know why i call Jim Murrays dynaflux generator a big heater,and a very poor generator.

These are things Erfinder will not show you--he would prefer you did not know,as it would become apparent that Jim is not !tha man!
Erfinder also hates using instruments to make measurements,so it is ironic that Jim's(Erfinders hero) own measurements,in his own video,shows just how poor the dynaflux generator actually is at generating power--but it makes a great heater. :D


Everyone here has the right to choose what they believe,but this one is a no brainer,and i have presented all the data required for those here to see the truth about the mighty Jim Murray,and his wonderful dynaflux generator.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 04:19:14 AM



To be fair, I think Jim Murray's early work was helpfull. Before he got involved with the Murakami Army.

Some deception is apparent these days. Like sharing 80% of SERPS with the public, then saying because a Patent is pending, no more will be shared. The critical part.

Everyone should be carefull, when one shows a Concept, it is possibly the start to an understanding and not the entire device.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 04:53:57 AM


To be fair, I think Jim Murray's early work was helpfull. Before he got involved with the Murakami Army.



   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Bingo  ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 03, 2016, 06:55:41 AM
We only have to answer the question : would the beat frequency when used as a source for tank circuit , affect the original place where it was created ? Or : if the mix of frequencies produce other frequency and that frequency is used to pump LC circuit how this would load the original source ?
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 07:12:20 AM
We only have to answer the question : would the beat frequency when used as a source for tank circuit , affect the original place where it was created ? Or : if the mix of frequencies produce other frequency and that frequency is used to pump LC circuit how this would load the original source ?



Yes - Both Constructive and Destructive!

There become's a point where this is no longer seen as a "Beat Frequency" (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/beat.html) - When the Frequencies no longer differ because of the timing.

Thus a timing sensitive component in these systems. After all, what is a Standing Wave... either way we can see: Constructive and Destructive Interference (http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~gibson/Notes/Section5_2/Sec5_2.htm)...

It’s worth looking into Noise Cancelation, or some Videos I have posted of others experiments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpEevfOU4Z8

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 10:43:46 AM
Find a means for generating a beat frequency, and see for yourself how stupid the wannabe authorities sound when they say shit like, "yeah....constructive and destructive...."  He hasn't built anything in this direction, I have.  I'm not asking you to take my word for it nor join a team.  Find the simplest means for generating a beat, and LOAD THE DAMN THING, see for yourself.  Recognize the relation between the inducing has to the induced, there is no negative back coupling.  Note the output, get mad, cause its low, comprehend why, study and recognize what is necessary to lift it back to "desired" levels. 


They are beginning to talk major crap now, introducing things like nodes and antinodes...suggesting that folks learn what these things are.  I have, and use them, haven't seen them operating at this level yet, and it's doubtful that I ever will.




Regards



A nest of contradictions in the one drively piffle of Fairy Tale Science!!! Even an outright Lie in there!!!

"take my word for it" is the ONLY thing you offer others!!! Non existant Documentation, Bad Videos, Fairy Tales Science... Erfinder youre a classic exmple of how NOT to do it!!!

Hey Tinker Bell, have you any idea what you just wrote?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 10:58:40 AM



Can someone explain this to Erfinder? I can no longer speak Clown!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 11:05:46 AM



@Brad - In terms of Constructive/Destructive Interference, in what order would you put these terms, of course we know there should always be three.

Shall we put some minds into overdrive tonight and get them thinking why how and in what order?

I can put dollars down on which horse will finish this race last!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 11:38:00 AM


@Brad - In terms of Constructive/Destructive Interference, in what order would you put these terms, of course we know there should always be three.

Shall we put some minds into overdrive tonight and get them thinking why how and in what order?

I can put dollars down on which horse will finish this race last!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

You have to laugh Chris

Those that laughed at you,now use your terms of propagation  :D
Action-reaction-counter reaction--->beat frequency

You will notice once again,that Erfinder avoided the results of Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator  ::).
Guess he didnt think anyone would notice the trickery going on there.

All well and good to call some one elses work an abomination,when the man he thinks is !tha man!,has the worst ever generator in history.

But he cant get out of this one,as the proof is in !tha man's! own video lol.
Maybe people will take a step back now,and see who really is in lala land.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 12:42:54 PM

 You cannot and will not lead anyone to anything practical, let alone useful.

And you can?
Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator perhaps?

P/in=556.34 watts
P/out to load=40.09 watts
Efficiency=7.2%  :D

He da man  ;)

As i said,you insult others and there work,and yet you present the worst generator ever made as being the path to the future.


Brad



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 03:47:59 PM

I just say what others won't about yours and the resident plagiarist, copy paste junkie.

Quote
Your work is and will forever remain an abomination,

And still smoke anything you have ever done.

Quote
and you are one to talk, all you do is insult "others" work, hypocrite.


Such as who?--Murray,Bedini,Arron the rookie?--the garbage you promote ?.

You stated that Murray would run rings around me,so where are the rings?

Now,that dynaflux generator you love so much,from the man you admire so much--now that is an abomination  ;)

In fact Erfinder,after all these years of your fairy dust engineering,you have not presented one device from any of your guru's,that is even close to being anywhere near as efficient as the RT,and that is a fact. You dislike me because you know i see through the bullshit-such as Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator. I bet you didnt even bother taking any notice at all at what the efficiency actually was,but more so just followed a blind path behind !tha man! that said he had a winner. Now you try and drag others into your trip up the garden path,and you dont give a rats ass who you tread on while on your journey to no where.

Quote post 230

Quote
The ignore function works, just wanted to share that in case anyone felt the need to use it, I just added two individuals.  Felt good.....

Even your ignore function efficiency is well below standards.
Hopefully there are those that did not place me on !ignore!,and look at the data i supplied on Jim !the man! Murray's dynaflux generator,and can now see just how inefficient it actually is--and this is the type of garbage you are telling people here that they should pay attention to--while calling my RT and L.A.G an abomination lol.

Then came the !beat frequency! saga-->because Jim !tha man! said so   ;D


Brad


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 03, 2016, 05:14:55 PM
author=i_ron link=topic=15307.msg490912#msg490912 date=1472856669]

Hi Ron

It's not about taking side's.
The existence of this forum is built on searching for truth's,and weeding out the rubbish from the roses. It is about presenting fact's,and removing fictions,and we do a good job most of the time-->but some times the weeds just keep coming back.
snip
I will give you an example of fact and fiction--Jim Murray's dynaflux generator.

Brad


Thanks Brad, well thought out experiment, I had missed that but see the connection now to the "dynaflux".


I am working on a Bob Teal rep at the moment, having foolishly sent $7 US to the "army", that was funny!


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 03, 2016, 05:25:46 PM
@Erfinder
Quote
The relation of the added beats is such that it causes the isolated envelope to transition from a standing to traveling wave.  Now you have a wave packet which bounces between impedances, a less than ideal set of circumstances (a situation which demands one's attention prior to trying to apply this for practical use) for the packet of energy you have worked hard at isolating and mobilizing.


While I do not believe two oscillators producing a beat frequency can show a gain I do think it has the potential to do some interesting things. Things which we cannot do any other way due to the nature of the process.


For instance if we have two oscillators producing a standing wave function and a third element within the standing wave dissipates a given amount of energy periodically then the energy transfer is towards the standing wave center. The two oscillators lose energy and the third element gains the energy lost from the two oscillators which it dissipates and energy is conserved.


Energy is conserved, however if the two oscillators are driven by the loss in energy in the system acting inward towards a third element which reinforces the standing wave this is considered work. The third element which gained energy from the system and dissipated it in another form also causing an inward acting force is also considered work. Therefore it may be possible to perform two work functions while still conserving energy under the correct conditions. It would be similar to removing a section of the standing wave and having the standing wave rush in to fill the void so long as section removed ceases to exist in it's original form.


Of course this is simply speculation and it raises many questions concerning the nature of energy as it relates to the work performed within a system. Can a loss of energy produce a gain in work just as a gain in energy produces a gain in work?. If it can then there may be the possibility of two work functions.


AC











Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 05:54:39 PM

Thanks Brad, well thought out experiment, I had missed that but see the connection now to the "dynaflux".


I am working on a Bob Teal rep at the moment, having foolishly sent $7 US to the "army", that was funny!


Ron

Indeed Ron lol.

Bob Teals motor operation description .

The Magnipulsion Engine produced large amounts of mechanical energy while running on short pulses of DC current delivered to its electro-magnetic coils. In addition, when the power coils were turned off, the circuitry could also recapture most of this input electricity from the collapsing magnetic fields to be used again.

Now how dose Bedini's SSG work again?  ;D--,which by the way ,was actually designed and patented by Roger Andrews in 1974,and is not Bedini's work at all.

When you spend the time weeding through all the garbage,and doing some research,you begin to see who is on the money,and who is full of crap.

Below is a picture of one of Bob's early motors,and a picture of an !advanced! Bedini pulse motor.

Really makes you wonder some time's how these people get away with this sort of thing.
Seems advanced Bedini is only 44 years behind  :D

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
 author=Erfinder link=topic=15307.msg490967#msg490967 date=1472917392]

   

Quote
I dislike you because you are a wannabe know it all hypocrite, jackass, douchebag, drama queen.  I will continue to voice my opinion that thinking individuals should ignore your abominations, specifically your pride and joys, the two lousy pieces of shit,

Lol,come on Erfinder,you can do better than that.
Your insults are some what like Jim's dynaflux--very low grade.

Quote
and pay closer attention to that which "you" say they should stay away from!  Every pulsed and commutated motor on the planet is a rotary transformer, you ignorant, arrogant, illiterate fucked ass
.

Ah,now your true colors are shining through  ;)

Quote
Funny thing is most of what you have you copied and pasted.....and got it wrong...You bash JB but still got his  in your mouth, you can't seem to get away from his circuit....now that's funny...and pathetic,

Whats actually funny and pathetic,is that you think that circuit is JBs lol.-->see previous post of mine.

Quote
so is my language, but I don't care.  You see through the bull shit....please, your're blind in one eye and can't see out the other....you're blind without your meters...What a fucking joke, and call yourself, and expect your groupies to worship you as an authority on someone else's work?!?   "It's not a fucking numbers game, it is for you, and as such you miss everything, and drag all who worship you down the fucking drain....this is a waste of time, you are a waste of time.


My vision is quite fine thanks--good enough to see the actual efficiency of Jim !tha man! Murrays generator,from numbers provided by Jim !tha man! him self.

Quote
Oh and before I forget, for the record bitch (yeah I called you a bitch), I was talking about beat frequencies long before Murray went public, and also demonstrating the same, I don't share such with assclowns.

Oh,so your responsible for Jim !tha man! Murray's poor excuse for a generator.

Quote
Once these things start...nothing gets done, well I get work done.  I love imagining you getting all heated, right now I see you as a chicken in a tinman getup, with its feathers all ruffled and rustled up.....

Lol
You just dont have what it takes to ruffle my feathers Erfinder--your not even close.
In fact,i am actually having a good laugh ATM,reading your reply.
It is clear by your foul language,that you are the one getting all hot and sweaty under the collar,because i cooked you on Jim !tha man! Murray's generator being some sort of fantastic device,when it is nothing more than a heater.

Your having a bad week on this thread Erfinder.

I put an end to your fairy tail about Jim !tha man! Murray's generator being anything special.
Myself and Ron have shown you that Bedini's SSG design ,is not actually his design at all.
And your beat frequency saga being anything special,is really nothing at all,as you have been working with it for years,and still have nothing great to show  :D

To quote your self
Everything that followed where you should have stopped, shows you are clueless as to what's going on

Anyway,you have your self a good day Erfinder.
Oh,and do try to keep the language down,as young children read these forum threads from time to time. It is also against forum rules to use language like that  ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 06:32:30 PM

Curious.......I don't recall mentioning gain....I do recall saying that the aforementioned was my ideal inducer (speculation, no....I don't think so).  Thought this thread was about getting around the negative effects associated with Lenz......  Maybe this method leaves one with the impression that I am into strong narcotics.......What in the hell happened to this place.

And that is exactly what we are doing.
Before that can be done,we all must understand places where Lenz can hide.
I showed a good example of that in Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator.
You presented Jims work as being advanced in this area,and i showed that it is in actual fact,way behind in this area. In Jims dynaflux generator,Lenz hides within produced eddy currents,proven using Jims own numbers in his video.

You (like Jim) thought that the load(two bulbs) placed on the generator,placed no load on the prime mover,when in fact,the prime mover was heavily loaded before a load was even pulled from the generator.

These are the tricks people here can learn to watch for,and also shows where !Lenz! can be hiding.

The only reason you think this thread is not on track,is because it is not going the way you want it to go--that being,your way.

But hang in there Erfinder,you might just learn a thing or two,from the guys that build abominations  ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 06:39:13 PM

Fuck you and the forum rules  sucker.  I know exactly what I'm doing.....

So dose Jim !tha man! Murray--right?

P/in=556.34 watts
P/out to load=40.09 watts
Efficiency=7.2%
Waste heat energy=516.25 watts

He tha man  ;D
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 06:44:14 PM

Thanks Brad, well thought out experiment, I had missed that but see the connection now to the "dynaflux".


I am working on a Bob Teal rep at the moment, having foolishly sent $7 US to the "army", that was funny!


Ron

Ron
Do you have a schematic for the circuit you are using in your Teal replication.
And which one of his designs are you replicating ?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 03, 2016, 07:08:32 PM

You are an illiterate dip shit....I wasn't talking to you, and no, nothing can nor will be learned from your sorry ass....

Your ignore function is very inefficient Erfinder.
But fits well into your other functions.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 09:36:47 PM
You have to laugh Chris

Those that laughed at you,now use your terms of propagation  :D
Action-reaction-counter reaction--->beat frequency

You will notice once again,that Erfinder avoided the results of Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator  ::).
Guess he didnt think anyone would notice the trickery going on there.

All well and good to call some one elses work an abomination,when the man he thinks is !tha man!,has the worst ever generator in history.

But he cant get out of this one,as the proof is in !tha man's! own video lol.
Maybe people will take a step back now,and see who really is in lala land.


Brad



Hey Brad - There is beauty and simplicity in Logic.


Let em laugh, we know for sure who will have the last laugh. This is, I wont laugh at them as they did to me, I will laugh with them, because, as you know, once understood, its so simple!!! As you are laughing, your work, you see the simplicits there!

As we each climb our own ladder of life, we find that sometimes the distance up is very much further than the distance down: Erfinder has a long way up...

Everyone here could learn SO MUCH from your work if they just listened!

Times are changing!!! We now set our own pace on how we progress, we have come so far in such a short time. No more 400 Page debates, now we just need to get those that want to, up to speed and drop the rest off at the bus stop!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 09:43:04 PM

Your work is and will forever remain an abomination, and you are one to talk, all you do is insult "others" work, hypocrite. I just say what others won't about yours and the resident plagiarist, copy paste junkie.






ErrorMaker - Take the Challange - Brad's Build Off Challange!!!

You can't read......Not no, Hell no....




I have no interest in joining your boy band....HELL NO.  The two of you can work that out on your own.


If youre totally scared you will get your entrails handed to you and made a fool of in front of the world then I understand!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 10:03:56 PM

I dislike you because you are a wannabe know it all hypocrite, jackass, douchebag, drama queen.  I will continue to voice my opinion that thinking individuals should ignore your abominations, specifically your pride and joys, the two lousy pieces of shit, and pay closer attention to that which "you" say they should stay away from!  Every pulsed and commutated motor on the planet is a rotary transformer, you ignorant, arrogant, illiterate fucked ass.  Funny thing is most of what you have you copied and pasted.....and got it wrong...You bash JB but still got his  in your mouth, you can't seem to get away from his circuit....now that's funny...and pathetic, so is my language, but I don't care.  You see through the bull shit....please, your're blind in one eye and can't see out the other....you're blind without your meters...What a fucking joke, and call yourself, and expect your groupies to worship you as an authority on someone else's work?!?   "It's not a fucking numbers game, it is for you, and as such you miss everything, and drag all who worship you down the fucking drain....this is a waste of time, you are a waste of time.  Oh and before I forget, for the record bitch (yeah I called you a bitch), I was talking about beat frequencies long before Murray went public, and also demonstrating the same, I don't share such with assclowns. 


Once these things start...nothing gets done, well I get work done.  I love imagining you getting all heated, right now I see you as a chicken in a tinman getup, with its feathers all ruffled and rustled up.....



Erfinder Potty Mouth!!!



First of all - Brad has done more and shared more than you ever have!!! Brad is a true Gentleman and a Super Hero on the bench!!!


You better be scard!!! Wait till Steffan see's this! We dont have to put up with this from a Clown with a Potty Mouth!!!


Bill, are you seeing this?


Thing is, you describe exactly how we see you!!! You are all that and more!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 10:40:01 PM
And that is exactly what we are doing.
Before that can be done,we all must understand places where Lenz can hide.
I showed a good example of that in Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator.
You presented Jims work as being advanced in this area,and i showed that it is in actual fact,way behind in this area. In Jims dynaflux generator,Lenz hides within produced eddy currents,proven using Jims own numbers in his video.

You (like Jim) thought that the load(two bulbs) placed on the generator,placed no load on the prime mover,when in fact,the prime mover was heavily loaded before a load was even pulled from the generator.

These are the tricks people here can learn to watch for,and also shows where !Lenz! can be hiding.

The only reason you think this thread is not on track,is because it is not going the way you want it to go--that being,your way.

But hang in there Erfinder,you might just learn a thing or two,from the guys that build abominations  ;)


Brad



Brad, correct me if you see it a different way.

Lenz's Law is always valid for Induction between two Coils, one being a Primary and one being a Secondary. This will never change.

Why? Because Flow of Current in the Secondary is a Magnetic Field and the Magnetic Field will always Oppose the Source! Always!

However, in some arrangements the Negatively, Reflected Magnetic effects of Lenz's Law can be reduced, from the Secondary to the Primary!!!

Because Electrical Energy Flowing in a Secondary is a Magnetic Field - Lenz's Law is a Magnetic Field, they are the same thing!!!


In Terms of Constructive/Destructive Interference:

   Primary: Constructive
   Secondary Destructive


Primary itself could be seen as Constructive, a single Wave. The Secondary, a Single wave in conjunction with the Primary, is Destructive, there is Destructive Interference between the Secondary and the Primary.

Of corse this depends on a point of View, and if one decides to look at the Field Qualitys in Time.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 03, 2016, 11:02:38 PM
Erfinder,

I am really surprised at your behavior.  You may recall we have had a couple of conversations on Skype.  I thought you were a gentleman.  Now I see I was very wrong.  It appears you are in the same category as Synchro 1.  When someone shows you that you are mistaken instead of trying to answer from a technical viewpoint you go on the attack with name calling and vulgarity.  Shame on you.  Acting like a 10 year old bully instead of a grownup.  I will no longer waste any time reading anything you post.

Carroll
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 03, 2016, 11:31:41 PM
Erfinder,

I am really surprised at your behavior.  You may recall we have had a couple of conversations on Skype.  I thought you were a gentleman.  Now I see I was very wrong.  It appears you are in the same category as Synchro 1.  When someone shows you that you are mistaken instead of trying to answer from a technical viewpoint you go on the attack with name calling and vulgarity.  Shame on you.  Acting like a 10 year old bully instead of a grownup.  I will no longer waste any time reading anything you post.

Carroll


Hi Carroll,

I am sure Erfinder will see the error in his ways. For a time I too was not very professional in my behaviour management. I am now ashamed when I read back.

Heated debate tends to bring out the worst in people.

I guess, what I am trying to say, is, I hope others forgive any of my behaviours that were inappropriate.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ramset on September 03, 2016, 11:46:18 PM
Oye Vey
Isn't there a football game on  ...?

Yeesh

perhaps a little quiet time Beating the cat or something ??

Tweeze a few nose hairs maybe ?

shooting holes in the boat is never a good idea , we need all the hands we can get around here



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 04, 2016, 12:39:03 AM
Oye Vey
Isn't there a football game on  ...?

Yeesh

perhaps a little quiet time Beating the cat or something ??

Tweeze a few nose hairs maybe ?

shooting holes in the boat is never a good idea , we need all the hands we can get around here



Hey some Yiddish - Nice!!!

גרעעטינגס און באַגריסן צו די שמועס

Yes, sorry for my part, now, lets get serious here, stop the supid, Destructive Interference - Pardon the Pun ;)

This Pun is possibly more important than currently realised because of its many meanings!

We have covered much of this before, many here will already know all about this stuff: Superposition/Noise Cancelation - Several Posts (http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg471838/#msg471838).

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 01:22:40 AM
Ron
Do you have a schematic for the circuit you are using in your Teal replication.
And which one of his designs are you replicating ?


Brad




Hi Brad,


At the moment it is all in my head. So the first model is just to test the parameters. As has been pointed out, the material from Energetic, "the final, final, final, secret of free energy" does not say much. Aaron is touting the Scotch Yoke but in this case it suffers from the exact same faults as the crankshaft. Namely the pull in force of a solenoid is all in the final moment of closure. The Scotch Yoke and the crank shaft are at the 12:00 o'clock and 6:00 o'clock position... meaning no transfer of force is possible at that time. To solve this problem he has the timing set to be off !!! thus defeating the maximum force. He admits that his build is "not very powerful"  and didn't even show it running.


So to get a better force transfer I am going with one way clutches, and just two solenoids. Just working on the switching now as I quit for the day.  To show what I mean, in the  graphic below if you pulse the solenoid too soon it will be very weak. One must pulse up on the curve. The right hand side of the graphic is with the plunger out, as it is drawn in it peaks on the left.


Thanks, Ron




Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 04, 2016, 02:17:00 AM



Hi Brad,


At the moment it is all in my head. So the first model is just to test the parameters. As has been pointed out, the material from Energetic, "the final, final, final, secret of free energy" does not say much. Aaron is touting the Scotch Yoke but in this case it suffers from the exact same faults as the crankshaft. Namely the pull in force of a solenoid is all in the final moment of closure. The Scotch Yoke and the crank shaft are at the 12:00 o'clock and 6:00 o'clock position... meaning no transfer of force is possible at that time. To solve this problem he has the timing set to be off !!! thus defeating the maximum force. He admits that his build is "not very powerful"  and didn't even show it running.


So to get a better force transfer I am going with one way clutches, and just two solenoids. Just working on the switching now as I quit for the day.  To show what I mean, in the  graphic below if you pulse the solenoid too soon it will be very weak. One must pulse up on the curve. The right hand side of the graphic is with the plunger out, as it is drawn in it peaks on the left.


Thanks, Ron

One way clutches(sprag clutch) and solenoids sounds familiar  ;)

Here is a little engine design i came up with some years back that uses these very parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VJG8-9izQ

I designed it so as maximum force is always placed on the crank shaft,as the cranks big end journal is always at 90* when the solenoid fired,unlike a normal ICE,where the big end journal would be at(close to) TDC when the gases ignited,and all the force would be on the main bearings of the crank.

Oh,and a short video of it running on free energy lol.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wITJVy0rPE


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 04, 2016, 02:42:07 AM
Very nice videos Brad!  Thanks for sharing those.  An interesting way to get rotary motion from a solenoid.

Carroll

PS: Please check you PMs.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 03:06:12 AM
One way clutches(sprag clutch) and solenoids sounds familiar  ;)

Here is a little engine design i came up with some years back that uses these very parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VJG8-9izQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4VJG8-9izQ)

I designed it so as maximum force is always placed on the crank shaft,as the cranks big end journal is always at 90* when the solenoid fired,unlike a normal ICE,where the big end journal would be at(close to) TDC when the gases ignited,and all the force would be on the main bearings of the crank.

Oh,and a short video of it running on free energy lol.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wITJVy0rPE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wITJVy0rPE)


Brad


 Ah, so I don't have to explain that to you, LOL. Nice builds Brad, you do some nice builds.


I am hoping that it will have enough power to run a small generator... low lenz of course  :P


Thanks for sharing!


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 04, 2016, 03:28:13 AM

 Ah, so I don't have to explain that to you, LOL. Nice builds Brad, you do some nice builds.


I am hoping that it will have enough power to run a small generator... low lenz of course  :P


Thanks for sharing!


Ron

That is the key-maximum force,with minimum motion-->as far as the prime mover go's.

As you stated,a solenoid only has a short window of opportunity to do mechanical work,and in my case,a crank shafts big end journal  also has only a small window to transfer maximum torque to the crank shaft. If we were able to engineer an ICE in the same way,then we would increase the mechanical output power by 10x,reduce waste heat,and also reduce fuel consumption.

A solenoid motor could be made to be very efficient in this-or other ways.

I have just about finished my caravan project--finishing touches on it today,and i will then be back in full swing on my hobby projects.

I will be continuing my work on the RT,and the latest version-get this(Erfinder will be happy),includes a beat frequency,which is the combination result of the electromagnetic drive pulses,and the generated electromagnetic output wave.

Anyway,looking forward to seeing your build come together.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 04, 2016, 04:01:54 AM
A vid on YT to show Lenz effect of the toroid coil winding using a pulse motor as the rotor driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPz-CLcRUX0&feature=youtu.be

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 04, 2016, 04:19:01 AM
A vid on YT to show Lenz effect of the toroid coil winding using a pulse motor as the rotor driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPz-CLcRUX0&feature=youtu.be

Mags

Hey Mags

While the motor is running,can you move the toroid core away from the rotor,and see what happens,and then bring the core back close to the rotor,and see what happens?.

Cheers

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 04, 2016, 05:21:12 AM
Hey Mags

While the motor is running,can you move the toroid core away from the rotor,and see what happens,and then bring the core back close to the rotor,and see what happens?.

Cheers

Brad

Hey Brad

Will do so when I get back to shop tomorrow.

What do you expect may happen?  The core does cog the rotor so it is initially a drag. So if I pull it away without shorting the coil the rotor goes faster without changing the input.

Like in my last post on this, I was kinda expecting no effect on the rotor, as in the orbo effect. Then I did a test on a fully wound core and the gen effect was virtually nil, so it has to be a short end to end winding length of just a portion of the core to get max gen output. Even the winding in the vid, if it were the same number of turns but shorter from end to end of the winding, there would be more output but a shorter length bump on the scope. Did that in the earlier test.

I also put some small mags in a plastic tube and used a drill to spin the tube in the hole of the core, and there is output there also. It was low rpm and smaller mags, but it did induce the coil. So if we wind a bunch of individual windings on the core, we can induce them with a spinning diametric mag in the hole of the core which should have reduced core cogging and leave only Lenz to deal with. If coils on opposite ends of the toroid core are say in series, each producing opposing output due to opposite poles inducing each, there may be some different effects there as the loaded coils fields will oppose in the core. That is the next test setup.  The core and mag need to be perfectly center and mounted solid, as in the core held solid and the axle of the diametric mag also, to have a cogless operation with the core.

But I will give it a go tomorrow.  ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 04, 2016, 05:25:05 AM
Just a thought that came to me.  I wonder what would happen if a second winding on the opposite side of the core, furthest away from the rotor. Then use that as an output while leaving the front winding shorted.  ???   Simple to try

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 04, 2016, 03:15:30 PM

     You people don't get to choose how I respond.  Regarding your decision to not read anything I  post from now on, I will loose about as much sleep as one who gives two shits,

Quote
You seem to fit well in the category of groupie/cheerleader... 
.

Ah,your true colors shine through once again--attack those that dare question you.You truly belong to the !army!--so many books of secret's that are really books of nothingness.

Quote
Those you speak of would like to think they showed me I was mistaken

I did show you you were mistaken.
Jim !tha man! Murray--is not tha man.
Your biggest problem is,you dont know where to look. Here you think you are going to negate the effects of Lenz-and help others here do so,and yet you were blind as to where it existed in Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator--the work you pushed so hard for everyone to take note of.

Quote
They haven't shown anyone shit that you cannot find yourself, and their assessment of the work of the ones they bash....I am glad they do it, they bar themselves from making any real progress, and drag their groupie/cheerleaders right along with them.

I disagree.
It only took one look at Jim's video on the dynaflux generator,to see that it was nothing more than a bathroom heater-and a noisy one at that. With just over 7% efficiency,even you would have to agree that that generator is a true abomination  :D
So i would count that as positive progress,where we have removed one shocking excuse for a generator that dose not negates the Lenz effect. Now no one will waste there time on building such a piece of junk--junk from the army camp.

Quote
it's not like you were paying attention anyway.

It's a good thing that very few were paying attention to you. Think of all the time that would have been wasted on building Jim's dynaflux generator,and just because you dont understand or know where to look,when it come's to negating the Lenz effect--just as Jim had no idea either.

Would you like to refer us to another wonderful device that the Macrame Army has ?--we could have a good look at any you present,and see if any of the soldiers really do have anything great to offer. My bet is you will not post another thing here again,as you know there are those here that will present the truth about these wonderful Macrame Army machines.

I have read everyone of there books of secrets,and not one actually has any secrets in them. There is lots of bullshit--but no secrets.
Lots of claimed self runners,but not one in existence.

You hate using measuring equipment,and dis those that do.
Much the same as driving a car down the road with your eyes shut--sooner or later,your going to crash--like you did with Jim's dynaflux generator. You refused to look at what the measuring equipment was telling you,and blindly followed the work of a man that dose not even know what his own device is doing.

Perhaps you could get in touch with Arron the rookie,and tell him i challenge him to a simple pulse motor build off-->now that would be a hoot. ;D
But like you,Arron the rookie has much to say,but runs like a scared little mouse when challenged.

I wonder how large the insult list will grow,when others question your work or ethics.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 04:36:48 PM





Erfinder,


I have always had a minor interest in the work of David Squires. Now I see in the blurb for "Advanced Motor Secrets" he uses the term, "energy transformation"


This leads to a couple of questions, are you familiar with his work and two, is he using the term as you would? Perhaps you could expound a wee bit on this please?


Thanks,


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 06:12:03 PM

Mr. Squires is a man I would love to exchange with.  He is the only one other than JLN who has studied the Romag Generator.  I am passionate about that particular machine, and owing to this, yes, I am familiar with the name.


Your second question, it's a possibility that we are saying similar, not being in possession of any of his works, other than the info offered by energetics, and the document found on JLN, it's almost impossible to make a comparison between what he knows, and what I have come to understand.  I would like to think we are on the same page.  There is no clear indication of what's being transformed. 


On a side note, I am investigating how energy is transferred between L and C, both are source in turn, both are sink in turn, but at resonance something else takes place. The impedance = 0 condition opens the system up so as to allow energy to move in both directions simultaneously, assuming the means for exciting such is available.  The prerequisite, resonance must be maintained over a wide band, I call this condition "Infinite Harmonic Resonant Self Oscillation", I mentioned that already......  The key to accomplishing this is understanding what Lenz really is doing in your system and controlling it (Lenz, not running away from it or cutting it out like cancer) through the manipulation of reactive cross section at key instances....sounds complicated but can be broken down into changing the impedance of the circuit, impedance here being a direct reference to CEMF, how, where and when, and which direction it is induced.  Folk don't take me serious, their loss.

More than you asked for, not what you asked for, sorry about that.


Regards


Tantalizing, but a good start, thanks.


Yes, mags toroid experiment reminded me of Dave's famous nearly one and only foray into public disclosure?


But ask the right questions and eventualy I will get the right answers


Ron





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 06:22:27 PM
Hey Brad

Will do so when I get back to shop tomorrow.

What do you expect may happen?  The core does cog the rotor so it is initially a drag. So if I pull it away without shorting the coil the rotor goes faster without changing the input.

Like in my last post on this, I was kinda expecting no effect on the rotor, as in the orbo effect. Then I did a test on a fully wound core and the gen effect was virtually nil, so it has to be a short end to end winding length of just a portion of the core to get max gen output. Even the winding in the vid, if it were the same number of turns but shorter from end to end of the winding, there would be more output but a shorter length bump on the scope. Did that in the earlier test.

I also put some small mags in a plastic tube and used a drill to spin the tube in the hole of the core, and there is output there also. It was low rpm and smaller mags, but it did induce the coil. So if we wind a bunch of individual windings on the core, we can induce them with a spinning diametric mag in the hole of the core which should have reduced core cogging and leave only Lenz to deal with. If coils on opposite ends of the toroid core are say in series, each producing opposing output due to opposite poles inducing each, there may be some different effects there as the loaded coils fields will oppose in the core. That is the next test setup.  The core and mag need to be perfectly center and mounted solid, as in the core held solid and the axle of the diametric mag also, to have a cogless operation with the core.

But I will give it a go tomorrow.  ;)

Mags


Good experiment, and as I posted in my previous post, reminds me of David Squire's work


I was wondering if the full circle toroid, with your experiment as a window, would make a difference?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 08:50:26 PM

 The force we induce has to be given a path through its inducer.  Trust me, I know this makes absolutely no sense,


Regards


Not so absurd, IF there is a solution to the problem


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 09:57:57 PM
Erfinder,

I am really surprised at your behavior. 
Carroll


Hi Carroll,


Wasn't that an interesting series of posts? No surprise actually, it is a test. He thinks quite differently than most of us and applies as much weight to what is not said as to what is said. Once you come to understand there is no meanness in his remarks then the test should become more apparent. He tests us for our mental competency ... but more pertinently... our mental stability. He is seeking to see how comfortably we live with our egos ... but then again, most importantly, to see which one is in charge!


Incidentally, has there been any release of Dave B's "invention"? I don't go there any more.


Thanks


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 04, 2016, 10:48:19 PM




Erfinder,


I have always had a minor interest in the work of David Squires. Now I see in the blurb for "Advanced Motor Secrets" he uses the term, "energy transformation"


This leads to a couple of questions, are you familiar with his work and two, is he using the term as you would? Perhaps you could expound a wee bit on this please?


Thanks,


Ron



Hi Ron - A very good friend of mine invested many thousands of dollars and a lot of time in the Squires Device.

The Murakami Army will have you believe that a Bar of Soap is OU, I say you really need to be wary of Aaron and Soap!!!

It does suffer from Lenz's the same as a normal motor. I really should not post any pictures as they are not mine to post, but:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 11:11:40 PM


Hi Ron - A very good friend of mine invested many thousands of dollars and a lot of time in the Squires Device.

The Murakami Army will have you believe that a Bar of Soap is OU, I say you really need to be wary of Aaron and Soap!!!

It does suffer from Lenz's the same as a normal motor. I really should not post any pictures as they are not mine to post, but:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris!!! that is exactly the kind of information I needed, much appreciated.


So you see, I am still looking for that "low lenz" generator, lol


The soap saga starts with Chadwick who runs Bear house, who runs JB, prest wicki, Starling, who self destructed, so the army guy, along with a certain doctor, are just the bottom rungs of the ladder. Eyes open here.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 04, 2016, 11:12:45 PM
The force we induce has to be given a path through its inducer. Trust me, I know this makes absolutely no sense,


Regards
Not so absurd, IF there is a solution to the problem


Ron

A while ago there was a big debate about the vortex shape of the magnetic field lines.

Despite several experimental demonstrations, there were reluctant people sticking to the description from the books which described only the envelope of the (vortex) field lines. For those there is no solution to the problem, hence all the experiments are stirred to a dead end. When the vortex shape is considered,  a solution appears almost self evident, as in the attached picture.


That being only the principle, I know people developed practical machines. And I guess right now on this forum, one is trying to share more details, while applying the same principle to make head through all the opposition.

 
Regards.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 11:21:51 PM
Not so absurd, IF there is a solution to the problem


Ron

A while ago there was a big debate about the vortex shape of the magnetic field lines.

Despite several experimental demonstrations, there were reluctant people sticking to the description from the books which described only the envelope of the (vortex) field lines. For those there is no solution to the problem, hence all the experiments are stirred to a dead end. When the vortex shape is considered,  a solution appears almost self evident, as in the attached picture.

That being only the principle, I know people developed practical machines. And I guess right now on this forum, one is trying to share more details, while applying the same principle to make head through all the opposition.

Regards.


Thanks for the info, now if I wasn't so thick and knew what to do with it?


So there is hope yet... good to see the forum functioning again.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 04, 2016, 11:31:40 PM

Thanks Chris!!! that is exactly the kind of information I needed, much appreciated.


So you see, I am still looking for that "low lenz" generator, lol


The soap saga starts with Chadwick who runs Bear house, who runs JB, prest wicki, Starling, who self destructed, so the army guy, along with a certain doctor, are just the bottom rungs of the ladder. Eyes open here.


Ron



Hi Ron - Isnt it sickening how Control and Minipulation have destroyed portions of History and try to destroy the future!!!

Squires did have a Simulated FEMM Concept, I cant blame the guy because he did try! It should have been better investigated before selling info on it.

A device I learnt a lot from is the Ward Force Generator (http://rexresearch.com/wardforce/wardforce.htm) - Cheap and easy to build, some reuses of materials. I bought the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XMagnetic+Base+Dial+Indicator.TRS0&_nkw=Magnetic+Base+Dial+Indicator&_sacat=0) from EBay, and used some old Coils I had already, Spin up the Magnet with a Motor and whaaa Laaa a very interesting device.

Although my particular version was not OU, it was a very interesting device.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 11:45:10 PM



A device I learnt a lot from is the Ward Force Generator (http://rexresearch.com/wardforce/wardforce.htm) - Cheap and easy to build, some reuses of materials. I bought the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XMagnetic+Base+Dial+Indicator.TRS0&_nkw=Magnetic+Base+Dial+Indicator&_sacat=0) from EBay, and used some old Coils I had already, Spin up the Magnet with a Motor and whaaa Laaa a very interesting device.

Although my particular version was not OU, it was a very interesting device.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks, that is something I had seen before but not investigated... will have another look


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 04, 2016, 11:52:11 PM

Ron

A while ago there was a big debate about the vortex shape of the magnetic field lines.

Despite several experimental demonstrations, there were reluctant people sticking to the description from the books which described only the envelope of the (vortex) field lines. For those there is no solution to the problem, hence all the experiments are stirred to a dead end. When the vortex shape is considered,  a solution appears almost self evident, as in the attached picture.

That being only the principle, I know people developed practical machines. And I guess right now on this forum, one is trying to share more details, while applying the same principle to make head through all the opposition.

Regards.


Just for general information, but I am strongly reminded of a recent project I did for a well know Alaskan sensitive...some 33 degree coil forms for intersecting coils at the, shall we say block wall. The messy bits at the block wall are just shipping discs. Finished they are plastic and aluminum discs. I believe he has them wound and is impressed with the performance but I haven't heard if they are self powering yet. The coils would intersect as per your graphic.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 12:34:17 AM


Hi Ron -

A device I learnt a lot from is the Ward Force Generator (http://rexresearch.com/wardforce/wardforce.htm) -
   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Great post Chris, thanks for the heads up... does this answer my questions about Dave's OU generator???


Ron

Quote
Steve,Thanks for everything you have shared with us so far, but honestly, I have read through everything on your site, watched the videos, and I doubt that I could successfully replicate your device.[/size]If you really want people to replicate you need to give us some specifics. What are the part numbers of the things we should get so that we make an exact replication? I'd be on my way to the store in a heartbeat if I thought I could actually find what I need, but right now I doubt I could.If you have the time, it would help if you put together a step by step video. You have showed us parts, but when you say that this piece of plastic goes here, I need to know the dimensions of that piece of plastic if I am to replicate. Also I don't see any kind of wiring schematic. I hope it is not just me who is having this problem or I am REALLY going to feel like an idiot!UPDATE:I sent Steve an e-mail and he was kind enough to respond by calling me. We spoke for quite some time, and now I understand exactly how to build the switch. Thanks Steve, for all the help!! It may take me a couple days to come up with parts, but then I will be replicating this.


erfinder,I looked at the patent you posted and at Thaine's videos, and I would have to agree that all three of these devices are very similar in concept. All three eliminate the movement of the magnet past the coil, so that Lenz is defeated, yet allow for the change in magnetic field to harvest energy from the coil. This is all very interesting. Don't know where it will lead, but there is enough information from these sources that some of us should be building some things and reporting back. I will do a step by step video of my build of Steve's device and post on YouTube. After that, will try and duplicate what we saw in Thane's video.
David Bowling
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 01:17:09 AM

There was no questioning me you stupid piece of shit, my attitude was being addressed, and I responded in kind.  Learn to read dick.



No you dumb fuck, you didn't show me I was mistaken, what you are doing is dragging someone's name through the mud to make yourself look good, and say that my supporting that that individual is wrong.  You see only what you want to see, and like I told you before, you're in a bad position there, as you are blind in one eye and cannot see out the the other.  You have no idea what this is about, but really enjoy thinking you do.  Keep thinking you do.


You can't read nor write (true color that flaming shit bag), and from that position alone, you aren't qualified to point anyone in any direction (that's the difference between you and I fucker, I am making suggestions, voicing an opinion, you are stating facts, facts as you see them, facts which aren't needed when thinking abstractly.  You bitch twins fear thinking without bounds.  A good off the wall exchange cannot take place because you idiots rush in with your anal probes, talk of proper scope insertion techniques, and strict adherence to laws that you claim to get but don't.  If you got the damn laws, you wouldn't be here in the peanut gallery show boating.  Dumb ass.  It seems many like your brand of shit, their business, you know the truth though, you are a catastrophic fail.  Like I said bitch boy,  you have yet to present an anything original, and never will.  Your best has been to demonstrate that you know how to amplify the effect that lenz has on your system, and you praise yourself for this, what a dirty douchebag you are!




I care as much about you disagreeing as you care about me calling you names.  What you see in Jim's work means shit to me.  Let people look for themselves at the work, and not at your piss poor interpretation of the mans work.  It's fascinating how you make this all about Jim.  You really are a piece of shit abomination fabricator.


Only your illiterate ass could state such and maintain a straight face....




I could but we both know it would be a complete waste of time.  Fishing for that challenge...you are a real son of a bitch. 
You have no idea what you are looking for nor at.  It's not wise to agree with anything that anyone has written, including those whose cocks you suck, but you knew that?



I'm loving this, you really think you know, you really are a dumb shit.  The point, my point in not using a measuring technique is simple, read and comprehend dumb ass, what I am after MUST BE self evident, either it does more or it doesnt, period, you don't need a meter to gauge whether it's doing more or not, this isn't about nickeling and diming.  There are hundreds of pages wasted in debate on measuring techniques, I want no parts of that, but you assholes do, and force ALL to play that sick fucking game with you, I'm not playing that game. 



Yeah yeah yeah.....challenge him.  See where that will get you.  You haven't built shit worthy of anyone's attention.  Like I said, you amplify Lenz and think you're doing something special. You are an idiot.


Folk can voice their opinion of me, I don't mind, if they get stupid, I will give them what I give you.  I enjoy our little exchanges.

A delightful post--thanks for sharing  :D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 01:18:08 AM



Hi Ron - David Squires did not ever show an OU Generator/Motor - The motor sold to everyone on the DVD was nothing more than an expensive heavy Steel Laminate Brick with only average Torque.

The David Squires Motor I showed above, was not OU!!!

The Ward Force Generator is a great learning Tool. All that needs to be done is Spin the Magnet in the middle of the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 02:34:55 AM


Hi Ron -snip

The Ward Force Generator is a great learning Tool. All that needs to be done is Spin the Magnet in the middle of the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


I may have missed this experiment, (not just the mag base one) do you know of any good builds on this?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 05, 2016, 03:05:11 AM
yet... good to see the forum functioning again.


Ron

I have to disagree.

It's like one wants to go into the forest and be close to the nature, and the natural sounds are overpowered by neighboring drunkards celebrating Bacchus and telling silly stories about personal achievements in the field of wine tasting.
Their only goal is to get as many budy-budies as possible into their party and to enhance their status quo.
Ask them one simple question: what do they hope to achieve with that attitude? what is the benefit, what do they gain by being an attacking pack? What do they want?

Regards.

PS For the record FEMM does not deal with the twist of the magnetic field (I checked) simply because that information is not a factor in the software design.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 04:40:41 AM


Hi Ron - A very good friend of mine invested many thousands of dollars and a lot of time in the Squires Device.

The Murakami Army will have you believe that a Bar of Soap is OU, I say you really need to be wary of Aaron and Soap!!!

It does suffer from Lenz's the same as a normal motor. I really should not post any pictures as they are not mine to post, but:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

With all that laminated steel,it would suffer badly from the lenz effect,but hidden within the core it self-the same way the dynaflux generator dose-as we have seen.

Even the copper wire it self will have induced eddy currents-even when the coil is open.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 04:41:34 AM

I may have missed this experiment, (not just the mag base one) do you know of any good builds on this?


Ron



Hi Ron,

Steve's WebSite: http://www.energy-ingenuity.com/

Steve's Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1er-mkQ13ak

Very simple, very cheap and a very effective device to learn from.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 04:59:57 AM
With all that laminated steel,it would suffer badly from the lenz effect,but hidden within the core it self-the same way the dynaflux generator dose-as we have seen.

Even the copper wire it self will have induced eddy currents-even when the coil is open.


Brad



Hey Brad - Yes, as we know, its what one does with Lenz Law Effects... The Motor was supposed to be OU on Torque, thus the Torque Converter, or Dynamic Torque Sensor, on the back end. It wasnt.

While on this, any moving Magnetic Field, everytime we see a Change in the proximity to a Coil, if the Coil has a Load or the likes of, Lenz's Law is invoked. There is no getting around this, its what we do with Lenz's Law is the Key.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 07:22:14 AM


Hey Brad - Yes, as we know, its what one does with Lenz Law Effects... The Motor was supposed to be OU on Torque, thus the Torque Converter, or Dynamic Torque Sensor, on the back end. It wasnt.

While on this, any moving Magnetic Field, everytime we see a Change in the proximity to a Coil, if the Coil has a Load or the likes of, Lenz's Law is invoked. There is no getting around this, its what we do with Lenz's Law is the Key.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
The answer is to create an equal and opposite MMF-being the result of a self induced counter reaction.
When you face two PM like poles together,the resultant field is not twice the field strength of a single magnet alone,but 3x the field strength of 1 of those PMs.

When two coils buck (partnered output coils),the obtained field strength/force equates to 3x the magnetic energy-not just double the field/force from a single coil alone,supplied with the same amount of energy.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 08:09:02 AM
The answer is to create an equal and opposite MMF-being the result of a self induced counter reaction.
When you face two PM like poles together,the resultant field is not twice the field strength of a single magnet alone,but 3x the field strength of 1 of those PMs.

When two coils buck (partnered output coils),the obtained field strength/force equates to 3x the magnetic energy-not just double the field/force from a single coil alone,supplied with the same amount of energy.


Brad



Now I think that’s just beautiful!!! Extraordinary, simplicity, if I didn’t know better, I would say this is magic!

Most certainly it’s not Magic, it's simple, already known Science that has a few minor extensions to well-known Concepts.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 09:24:20 AM


Hi Ron - A very good friend of mine invested many thousands of dollars and a lot of time in the Squires Device.

The Murakami Army will have you believe that a Bar of Soap is OU, I say you really need to be wary of Aaron and Soap!!!

It does suffer from Lenz's the same as a normal motor. I really should not post any pictures as they are not mine to post, but:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Chris
I dont know about how it would perform as a motor,but i think it would make a very powerful generator.

I believe we have a means of a simple version,using two of the same shaded pole motors,and replacing the rotor with a diametrically magnetized magnet.
Perhaps most of the CEMF would remain within the core loop,and each coil would buck the other?.

I think i may have two identical shaded pole motors to carry out the build.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 09:54:22 AM


Hi Ron - A very good friend of mine invested many thousands of dollars and a lot of time in the Squires Device.

The Murakami Army will have you believe that a Bar of Soap is OU, I say you really need to be wary of Aaron and Soap!!!

It does suffer from Lenz's the same as a normal motor. I really should not post any pictures as they are not mine to post, but:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Well,turns out i did have two identical shaded pole motors for the experiment.
All i have to do now,is cut through each core,through the middle of the bearing carrier holes.and tig them together. We then have something similar to the one you pictured--but at a budget cost. ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 10:13:22 AM
Well,turns out i did have two identical shaded pole motors for the experiment.
All i have to do now,is cut through each core,through the middle of the bearing carrier holes.and tig them together. We then have something similar to the one you pictured--but at a budget cost. ;)


Brad



Brad, the center of the device, the Ward Force Generator, is a Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

The Magnetic Base Dial Indicator, has a Core, Magnet and also some extrusions that are important. Let me do some pics and post, give me a few hours.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



P.S: The Red is a non Magnetic, Alloy housing. The Magnetic Base Dial Indicator is made from two parts, it has the Magnet on the inside.


.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on September 05, 2016, 10:22:51 AM
Hi Brad, when you cut through the laminates won't that ruin their function? Since they are insulated from each other.
Just asking. artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 11:10:01 AM


Brad, the center of the device, the Ward Force Generator, is a Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

The Magnetic Base Dial Indicator, has a Core, Magnet and also some extrusions that are important. Let me do some pics and post, give me a few hours.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



P.S: The Red is a non Magnetic, Alloy housing. The Magnetic Base Dial Indicator is made from two parts, it has the Magnet on the inside.


.

Yes,yes--i know exactly how they work.

I was thinking more along the lines of a generator.
In this case,we basically have a bucking field toroid generator.

Now,suppose when we draw a load from each coil,we use a switched connection from the coil to the load--like a mosfet switch on each. We then have a circuit that enables us to close each mosfet independent from each other,and at what ever frequency we decide on.
What would we produce if say the switching frequency of one coil was 100Hz,and the other was say 130Hz. What happens when we have two magnetic circuits,in the same toroid core,being loaded at different frequencies,when the inducing field has a fixed frequency ?.

So,we will chop one AC wave produced by one coil at 100Hz,and we will chop the other AC wave produced by the other coil at 130Hz-and we get what?.

Core done.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
Hi Brad, when you cut through the laminates won't that ruin their function? Since they are insulated from each other.
Just asking. artv

Hi Shylo

No,as the magnetic field travels around the laminated loops of the core--not cut across it.

If you look at any MOT,you will see that all the laminates are electrically connected,as they are all seem welded together.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 11:15:21 AM
Well,turns out i did have two identical shaded pole motors for the experiment.
All i have to do now,is cut through each core,through the middle of the bearing carrier holes.and tig them together. We then have something similar to the one you pictured--but at a budget cost. ;)


Brad



Ok, sorry, I should have been more specific. The Magnet and Central Stator Area is made from a Magnetic Base Dial Indicator. There is an Air Gap needed shown as the White/Sivler discolouration in the below Images. This is an Alloy Cast, either side of that is solid Magnetic Steel.

Your cuts need to be back some, so as to remove the Round, and just so the ends are just pushed to the ends. See the Red in the Image below. Marked in Red is the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

My Magnetic Base Dial Indicator teardown:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 11:34:49 AM
Yes,yes--i know exactly how they work.

I was thinking more along the lines of a generator.
In this case,we basically have a bucking field toroid generator.

Now,suppose when we draw a load from each coil,we use a switched connection from the coil to the load--like a mosfet switch on each. We then have a circuit that enables us to close each mosfet independent from each other,and at what ever frequency we decide on.
What would we produce if say the switching frequency of one coil was 100Hz,and the other was say 130Hz. What happens when we have two magnetic circuits,in the same toroid core,being loaded at different frequencies,when the inducing field has a fixed frequency ?.

So,we will chop one AC wave produced by one coil at 100Hz,and we will chop the other AC wave produced by the other coil at 130Hz-and we get what?.

Core done.


Brad



Brad, see where youre going. Nice!!!

Youre too fast for me! By the time it took me to get my old MBDI out, and do a tear down you got it all happening!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 11:47:25 AM


Ok, sorry, I should have been more specific. The Magnet and Central Stator Area is made from a Magnetic Base Dial Indicator. There is an Air Gap needed shown as the White/Sivler discolouration in the below Images. This is an Alloy Cast, either side of that is solid Magnetic Steel.

Your cuts need to be back some, so as to remove the Round, and just so the ends are just pushed to the ends. See the Red in the Image below. Marked in Red is the Magnetic Base Dial Indicator.

My Magnetic Base Dial Indicator teardown:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Much the same thing.
I can cut out the areas within the red boxes,other than that,if we have a diametricall magnetized magnet rotating inside the core,we have our dial gauge magnetic base. If you remove the two coils,the core either side of the coils will act just as the dial gauge magnetic base dose.
There is no need for the alloy cast,as that would only add drag ,due to the production of eddy currents.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 11:48:43 AM
Oh look-another winner lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZrcleswIbM&feature=youtu.be


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 12:06:30 PM
Much the same thing.
I can cut out the areas within the red boxes,other than that,if we have a diametricall magnetized magnet rotating inside the core,we have our dial gauge magnetic base. If you remove the two coils,the core either side of the coils will act just as the dial gauge magnetic base dose.
There is no need for the alloy cast,as that would only add drag ,due to the production of eddy currents.

Brad



Exactly, run and test, then cut later if needed, thats exactly right. I wanted to be clear for others. I knew you would know all about this.

Go Infinity Go!!! Well done guys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAPPMU9E5DY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2iehK0Jez4

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 01:44:15 PM
Well thats interesting  :o

Video up soon.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 02:39:33 PM
Ok,well by doing what i did in the video,i would have thought two things would have happened.

The magnet being used is a N52 3/4 x 1" neo.
Power being supplied to the primary coil is of a very small value.
1st,i would have thought by placing this powerful magnet within the core center,would have saturated the core -or near too,and reduced the output on the secondary.
2nd,i would have expected a large biasing offset on the output wave form.
But as you can see in the video,we had the opposite effect in both cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIAQvvfAE0M


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 05, 2016, 02:59:19 PM
Thanks for the video Brad.  I was waiting for you to turn the magnet the other way so that it was horizontal to see what that would do to the power out.  By horizontal I mean so the ends would be at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock.  You certainly do quick work.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 03:01:06 PM
Thanks for the video Brad.  I was waiting for you to turn the magnet the other way so that it was horizontal to see what that would do to the power out.  By horizontal I mean so the ends would be at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock.  You certainly do quick work.

Oh yea-i should have done that.
I will go and do it now,and post some scope captures for you.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 03:10:44 PM
Thanks for the video Brad.  I was waiting for you to turn the magnet the other way so that it was horizontal to see what that would do to the power out.  By horizontal I mean so the ends would be at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock.  You certainly do quick work.

OK,here are the two scope captures of the vertical/horizontal test.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 05, 2016, 03:28:52 PM
Thanks for the very quick response.  The results are what I was expecting but we never know until we see it firsthand.  Like you said the first results were surprising and not what was expected.  Maybe what is happening is the neo is helping to saturate the core just enough to allow it to be saturated more easily by the signal.  Similar to what they think is happening with the Gunderson device.  With the neo horizontal it is not helping to saturate the core material.  Just some wild off the top of my head ideas.

Thanks again for the quick response and interesting video.
Carroll
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 03:35:50 PM
Thanks for the very quick response.  The results are what I was expecting but we never know until we see it firsthand.  Like you said the first results were surprising and not what was expected.   Similar to what they think is happening with the Gunderson device.  With the neo horizontal it is not helping to saturate the core material.  Just some wild off the top of my head ideas.

Thanks again for the quick response and interesting video.
Carroll

Quote
Maybe what is happening is the neo is helping to saturate the core just enough to allow it to be saturated more easily by the signal.


I believe if that was the case,then we would see a huge offset of the output wave, due to biasing the core.
Remember,the PMs field through the core dose not change,but the field produced by the primary coil is alternating--so why no biased offset on the output?.

With every other coil i have tried this with,i get either a reduction in output,or an offset due to biasing on the output wave form.

Might look into this a bit further.

EMJ-any thoughts?--maybe some relationship to the MEG effect ?.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 05, 2016, 04:11:58 PM
Just did a P/in P/out efficiency test on this 1/2 hour hacked up transformer/generator to be thingy--with magnet in position.

P/in 3.92V @ 1.2mA=4.7mW
P/out=384mV across 100 ohms= 1.474mW

Efficiency=31.27%

Hey,this thing is a piece of crap,but it is still 23.97% more efficient that Jim !tha man! Murray's dynaflux generator  ;D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
Mr. Ward.  This is a sick fucking joke.  I am told I am talking BS science, and you fucks bring this bullshit, a concept that this guy names after himself?  You both are serious, chris, small c, started this shit with "wardforce" so brad gets to sport the I'm with stupid T shirt.  Did either of you check Mr. Wards patent before you dropped to your knees and started publicly kissing his ass?  Probably not.  When he first showed up, I did. 
snip


Touche, but before we get too excited lets all talk about the same thing!


1) Ward force is nonsense


2) the patents of Ward and German are just Ecklin Brown variations


3) the "Coordinate Description" graphic that Chris posted is different. This is what Ward was demonstrating with the mag base and has nothing what so ever to do with the patents.


4) Brad's model is not what Ward was demonstrating.


OK???


Chris, thanks for all the posts


Brad, Very interesting but the two top and bottom haves are still joined where the mag base has a break. Also the magnet is supposed to be rotating and the two coils are both generator coils.


However from your static test it may be that there is a phase difference between the two coils??? wouldn't that give Mr Lenz a shock?


I have to finish my Teal motor first, then I will swing over to the "mag base" generator model.


Ron



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 05:24:46 PM



Guys,


How I think the mag base model works.


With the NS vertical as in the left sketch there is no magnetic field present in the two cores.


As the rotating magnet's heal just clears the top and bottom gaps the full north field is SUDDENLY present on the left core and the south field on the right core. Thus there is a quite dramatic switching of the field from off to on and the turn off is equally sudden.


Thus there is no slow lazy approach and retreat of the magnet to and from the coil. All of a sudden the field is there... all of a sudden it is gone. So the Lenz reaction is shortened up considerably.


My thoughts at the moment... not having built one yet


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 06:51:52 PM
 
This isn't the way to go, but if this is what folks want....I am wasting my time here. 

Regards


Nah, we are here to learn and you are here to teach, go for it


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 05, 2016, 07:26:31 PM
@tinman
Quote
Oh look-another winner lol.[/size]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZrcleswIbM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZrcleswIbM&feature=youtu.be)


When I saw the video I thought... I want that. I want that purring away in my basement 24/7 and that is why I am here. That guy in the video is "the Man" and until we have a 10 Kw generator purring away in our basement powering our house we will never be the man.


Personally I like where your going with your video's and sharing real experiments in a clear and precise way helps everyone get moving in the right direction. We need more people doing real experiments and sharing their results in a way everyone can understand in order to get this done. I was moving towards motionless generators but I'm going jump on board in the direction this video and your experiments are moving.


We can do this, let's getter done.


AC



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 09:29:17 PM

I am not here to teach (as if I could)..snip


You are too modest... from all the reports I have heard you are an excellent teacher.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 05, 2016, 09:35:52 PM
Ok,well by doing what i did in the video,i would have thought two things would have happened.

The magnet being used is a N52 3/4 x 1" neo.
Power being supplied to the primary coil is of a very small value.
1st,i would have thought by placing this powerful magnet within the core center,would have saturated the core -or near too,and reduced the output on the secondary.
2nd,i would have expected a large biasing offset on the output wave form.
But as you can see in the video,we had the opposite effect in both cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIAQvvfAE0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIAQvvfAE0M)

Brad


Brad, is the phase difference caused by the magnet not being vertical?


This is interesting because when it is running, as a generator, there will be a different path length at the start of the induction every time, and with the coils in series??? LOL


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 10:47:37 PM


I believe if that was the case,then we would see a huge offset of the output wave, due to biasing the core.
Remember,the PMs field through the core dose not change,but the field produced by the primary coil is alternating--so why no biased offset on the output?.

With every other coil i have tried this with,i get either a reduction in output,or an offset due to biasing on the output wave form.

Might look into this a bit further.

EMJ-any thoughts?--maybe some relationship to the MEG effect ?.


Brad



Hey Brad - Excellent Video. Thanks for sharing!

I think the video title does give an accurate description, you have shown that the addition of a Permanent Magnet has increased the output: "Magnetic Power Amplification"

If we look at the Scope shots from one to the other, we do see a change in phase angle, only small, but a change in a direction we would not expect, we would expect the Coupling Coefficient (K) has increased between these two coils, from Primary to Secondary, but that something else may be at play also.

Increase: 6.571
VIn: 56.0mv
VOut: 368.0mv

We should always see Electromagnetic Induction ±180 degrees, and being that we see a decrease, away from the closest 180 degree mark, in the opposite direction, is significant.

So, maybe, as you say there is some localised Saturation due to the Permanent Magnet, which in turn is pushing the Change in Flux (B) of the primary, through to the secondary, inducing 6.571 times more Electromagnetic Induction, or Maybe the Permanent Magnet itself is actually the excess Coupling Coefficient (K), that we see. I think the evidence points toward this, the latter; the Permanent Magnet is adding Energy to the System.

This is just my thoughts and I may be totally wrong.

Shaded Pole Motors run their laminations fairly near to saturation, so Carroll's explanation is something to think about.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 05, 2016, 11:24:37 PM
Damn when one needs a shredder, TinselKoala (aka TK) is not around.
TK, if you read this and still value your science, unfriend timan 'till he reads the elementary books in electricity.

Regards, no more.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 05, 2016, 11:34:32 PM
Damn when one needs a shredder, TinselKoala (aka TK) is not around.
TK, if you read this and still value your science, unfriend timan 'till he reads the elementary books in electricity.

Regards, no more.


barbosi - You sound like an Erfinder dressed in drag. Infact you sign off many of your posts in the same way!!!

You could take your Bi-Polar Buddy, and start a B I B S Thread: Believe In Bull S*@%

Please feel free to prove me wrong, I will be more than happy to concede, I am only human.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: We all know what Bibs do, catch and soak up Dribble!!!

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 01:15:49 AM
Had tested moving the toroid coil gradually away from the rotor as Brad had asked. There was less drag and the output diminished even as the speed of the rotor gained.

So looking at his motor transformer with the magnet set inside, I tried a few things and this is what I came up with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be)

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 01:17:51 AM

Brad, is the phase difference caused by the magnet not being vertical?


This is interesting because when it is running, as a generator, there will be a different path length at the start of the induction every time, and with the coils in series??? LOL


Ron

Yes,the phase angle changes when the magnet is turned from the vertical to horizontal position.

Heading off this weekend for a camping trip,so may not get back to it until next week,as i still have a bit of work to do to the van through this week.

But it's looking like we will see some interesting effects take place with this setup.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 01:21:21 AM
Damn when one needs a shredder, TinselKoala (aka TK) is not around.
TK, if you read this and still value your science, unfriend timan 'till he reads the elementary books in electricity.

Regards, no more.

Perhaps you mean induced magnetic field interactions ?

Or maybe--just maybe,instead of just being a plane making a flyby,you could actually show us your smart's,and provide all the answers for us?. Why do you need TK if you know it all ?-elementary electricity that is .

Much to say--nothing to show.
You do sound much like the resident dropkick.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 01:27:02 AM



Have a great Camping Trip Brad!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 01:30:23 AM


Hey Brad - Excellent Video. Thanks for sharing!

I think the video title does give an accurate description, you have shown that the addition of a Permanent Magnet has increased the output: "Magnetic Power Amplification"

If we look at the Scope shots from one to the other, we do see a change in phase angle, only small, but a change in a direction we would not expect, we would expect the Coupling Coefficient (K) has increased between these two coils, from Primary to Secondary, but that something else may be at play also.

Increase: 6.571
VIn: 56.0mv
VOut: 368.0mv

We should always see Electromagnetic Induction ±180 degrees, and being that we see a decrease, away from the closest 180 degree mark, in the opposite direction, is significant.

So, maybe, as you say there is some localised Saturation due to the Permanent Magnet, which in turn is pushing the Change in Flux (B) of the primary, through to the secondary, inducing 6.571 times more Electromagnetic Induction, or Maybe the Permanent Magnet itself is actually the excess Coupling Coefficient (K), that we see. I think the evidence points toward this, the latter; the Permanent Magnet is adding Energy to the System.

This is just my thoughts and I may be totally wrong.

Shaded Pole Motors run their laminations fairly near to saturation, so Carroll's explanation is something to think about.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Wonder what would happen if i tank the primary coil?

I might play around with this solid state version for a while,before we look at the mechanical generator version.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 01:48:18 AM
Wonder what would happen if i tank the primary coil?

I might play around with this solid state version for a while,before we look at the mechanical generator version.


Brad



I think thats a sound plan Brad! Investigate as much as possible before making changes.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 01:49:47 AM
Had tested moving the toroid coil gradually away from the rotor as Brad had asked. There was less drag and the output diminished even as the speed of the rotor gained.

So looking at his motor transformer with the magnet set inside, I tried a few things and this is what I came up with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be)

Mags



Nice Vid Mags - Thumbs up from me.

Another Coil could be implimented to do that the PM's are doing...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 03:04:28 AM



Humour:

Brad, a wonderfull invention, not just for Camping: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/152200368906

This is what Erfinder, and his Bi-Polar Buddy, Barbosi, uses!!!

Not quite the RT, or Partnered Outout Coils, but just about as good!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 04:23:07 AM
Ok. Last one tonight.
Here we have the toroid using attraction to make the rotor spin. It will only go in one direction even with timing adjustments. Tomorrow I will reverse the coil polarity and show its one directional properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73KpppPqwRk&feature=youtu.be

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Had tested moving the toroid coil gradually away from the rotor as Brad had asked. There was less drag and the output diminished even as the speed of the rotor gained.

So looking at his motor transformer with the magnet set inside, I tried a few things and this is what I came up with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJj3Dd4GhO4&feature=youtu.be)

Mags

Great video Mags.
Were you just measuring voltage across the coil,or did you have a load across it as well ?.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 07:11:17 AM
Ok. Last one tonight.
Here we have the toroid using attraction to make the rotor spin. It will only go in one direction even with timing adjustments. Tomorrow I will reverse the coil polarity and show its one directional properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73KpppPqwRk&feature=youtu.be

Mags

Well if there was any of the EE guys in this thread,you would get arguments from them i would think,as the magnetic field produced by the coil that is rapped around the toroid,is suppose  to be containd within the toroid core--but your timing is saying the opposite is happening.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 07:15:11 AM
Ok. Last one tonight.
Here we have the toroid using attraction to make the rotor spin. It will only go in one direction even with timing adjustments. Tomorrow I will reverse the coil polarity and show its one directional properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73KpppPqwRk&feature=youtu.be

Mags

Mags

One more thing
Your magnets are cylinder/disc type magnets,so how is the magnetic field orientated with those magnets?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 07:37:06 AM
Great video Mags.
Were you just measuring voltage across the coil,or did you have a load across it as well ?.

Yeah, just voltage output of the coil, no load test yet.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 07:44:48 AM
Well if there was any of the EE guys in this thread,you would get arguments from them i would think,as the magnetic field produced by the coil that is rapped around the toroid,is suppose  to be containd within the toroid core--but your timing is saying the opposite is happening.

Brad

Its possible the core gets saturated and the field is no longer in the core, but it also works the same at lower inputs like 4v and 3v. It may be the rotor mags are a 3rd ingredient to interact with the fields in the core. The orbo cores are vertical and wound all the way from end to end, so this effect would be neutral in that case, and the rotor mag fields of the orbo dont cut the toroid windings, they go with the direction of the windings as I had shown the other day.

I am just surprised I am getting induction and motoring at all, since like you say above. ;)

But at least we have some new things to know. ;D

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 07:55:13 AM
Mags

One more thing
Your magnets are cylinder/disc type magnets,so how is the magnetic field orientated with those magnets?


Brad

They are N52 diametric mags on the rotor. 1/2in dia 5/8 long. I have 1/2in 1/8 diametrics that fit the rotor also from back in the Whipmag days.


Will have to see if the core is being over saturated and the rotor mag is attracted that way, or if it is just the rotor mag interaction with the core that enables the mag to interact with the core field. to eliminate the saturation possibility, Ill see if the core picks up iron powder when different power levels are applied.

The initial torque is lower than what we might expect compared to once it gets going.

I have to make a new stand for the core to try some secondary windings on the core furthest away from the rotor. It may be something similar to your rotary transformer idea. Dont know till we try.
Fun stuff though. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 06, 2016, 04:05:22 PM

barbosi - You sound like an Erfinder dressed in drag. Infact you sign off many of your posts in the same way!!!

You could take your Bi-Polar Buddy, and start a B I B S Thread: Believe In Bull S*@%

Please feel free to prove me wrong, I will be more than happy to concede, I am only human.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: We all know what Bibs do, catch and soak up Dribble!!!

I won't be a boor like yourself, I will explain the audience why I considered tinman's experiment without any value.
His core has 2 ( not one but two) shunts between the 2 coils, hence the signal will be lost. No brainer.

With attachment of the magnet, we all know what to expect (a better demonstration is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9AI5KuToM)

Even the phase shift tinman is not able to explain. For the rest of audience that is willing to learn and think for themselves, here is a complete analysis: http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm

Why EM junkie defends such pseudo science is behind my comprehension. Unless he's paid to do so - a shill - to distract with disinformation and to deter the real researchers from the real progress that has been made. Yeah people, build away all kind of useless contraptions, waste your time and resources and you'll get far(ish).

Under pretense humour:


Humour:

Brad, a wonderfull invention, not just for Camping: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/152200368906

This is what Erfinder, and his Bi-Polar Buddy, Barbosi, uses!!!

Not quite the RT, or Partnered Outout Coils, but just about as good!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
you out right insult Erfinder and me. Very mature and professional. Your scientific arguments stand for your talents.

Where is the forum's police now?

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 06, 2016, 04:44:34 PM
@barbosi

Quote
I won't be a boor like yourself, I will explain the audience why I considered tinman's experiment without any value.
His core has 2 ( not one but two) shunts between the 2 coils, hence the signal will be lost. No brainer.

If you are referring to the shading coils they were removed and if you were referring to the magnetic material surrounding the inner core then no obviously the signal would not be lost because it is a function of reluctance. The field follows the path of least resistance ie. most magnetic material which in this case is through both coils. So no it is not a no brainer and you are mistaken.

Quote
With attachment of the magnet, we all know what to expect (a better demonstration is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9AI5KuToM)
Even the phase shift tinman is not able to explain. For the rest of audience that is willing to learn and think for themselves, here is a complete analysis: http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm

No again you are mistaken and the jnaudin apparatus is completely different from the one by tinman in question. First jnaudin's apparatus is open path, second it has a moving rotor, third it has no permanent magnets, fourth it has no alternate closed paths. Your making a very poor attempt at comparing apples and oranges and give no explanation as to why.

Quote
Why EM junkie defends such pseudo science is behind my comprehension. Unless he's paid to do so - a shill - to distract with disinformation and to deter the real researchers from the real progress that has been made. Yeah people, build away all kind of useless contraptions, waste your time and resources and you'll get far(ish).

How can you consider questioning why a given phenomena occurs pseudo science when it is in fact the basis of science?.  Why does the magnet increase field coupling between the coils when it should saturate the core decreasing the coupling?. It is an honest question which apparently you do not understand which I find quite interesting. In fact unlike anything you have said this experiment has given me many more idea's for other experiments I would like to try concerning different configurations.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 04:44:47 PM
I won't be a boor like yourself, I will explain the audience why I considered tinman's experiment without any value.
His core has 2 ( not one but two) shunts between the 2 coils, hence the signal will be lost. No brainer.

With attachment of the magnet, we all know what to expect (a better demonstration is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9AI5KuToM)

 http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm

Why EM junkie defends such pseudo science is behind my comprehension. Unless he's paid to do so - a shill - to distract with disinformation and to deter the real researchers from the real progress that has been made. Yeah people, build away all kind of useless contraptions, waste your time and resources and you'll get far(ish).

Under pretense humour:you out right insult Erfinder and me. Very mature and professional. Your scientific arguments stand for your talents.

Where is the forum's police now?

Well,it is clear that you (like your mate Erfinder),are once again,on the wrong track.

Now,instead of posting that rubbish you just did,how about you find a demonstration that shows the P/in as well. Once you have done that,then we will see if what you posted has anything to what i am showing.

Quote
Even the phase shift tinman is not able to explain. For the rest of audience that is willing to learn and think for themselves, here is a complete analysis:

Again you are mixed up. It was not me that mentioned phase shift,it was EMJ.
I only spoke of the fact that there was no field bias shown on the secondary.
So once again,you now have to supply scope shot's to go along with the video's you posted,that shows no bias on the output side of the circuit. You might also try and find a similar experiment,instead of one with multiple bifilar wound transformers.

If you have something to say,at least get it right.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 06, 2016, 04:55:28 PM
snip

Under pretense humour:you out right insult Erfinder and me. Very mature and professional. Your scientific arguments stand for your talents.

Where is the forum's police now?


Just the chickens coming home to roost. You started it. If you are going to hand it out you have to be able to take it.

Why was it so funny? (it was hilarious!!!) well after page after page of you calling down various members of the group in the foulest manner possible, one of them turns the table and in extreme innuendo calls (implies) you are a Kunt  .... beautiful Chris! impeccable humour.

ROTFLMAO

Regards,

Ron


PS: Your rebuttal links, that part of your post, are excellent. If you can understand why then then the list is on it's way to healing.

PPS: hey it self censors that word... I had to misspell it to get it to save
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 05:04:42 PM

You wanna get fucked....keep this shit up, and I will have no problem going  P-orno on you and invite your family in to participate.  I was preparing to get really stupid with you, really get under your skin, really offend you, through your family, but decided against it.  Try me chris....go this route again, and you and I will be like pigs in shit in here, and not just here.


Keep it on the level of umpa lumpa and bs science....you'll sleep better.

Oh,the key board Rambo strikes again.
Just like in any other topic,you are all words ,and no action.

You do know Chris is an Aussie like myself-dont you?,and we really dont give a rats ass what you have to say,or pay any attention to your idle threats.

You belong where your language says you come from-and that is the gutter.

You want to take some one on,then take me on big man--dribble out all the foul language you can,and i will do what i have done to you all along--laugh.

You think you are so bad with sprouting out all that foul language,well when i try to picture what you might look like,all i keep seeing is Beaker from the Muppet's.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 06, 2016, 05:14:40 PM

Fuck off c_ock sucker, I was talking to your girlfriend.....

Lol

Hell'i dont even know what he looks like--might not be my type :D

Chris
Wack up a picture of you in your best dress--i need to know  ;)

Oh-and dont forget the pushup bra  :P


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 06, 2016, 05:39:27 PM

Now,instead of posting that rubbish you just did,how about you find a demonstration that shows the P/in as well. Once you have done that,then we will see if what you posted has anything to what i am showing.
snip
Brad
"
Brad, I am not sure why you did the experiment as you did either. It is "Ward's Magnetic Switch" (I know, invented long ago) and it was in this context as a generator that Chris posted it... I thought. Just how efficient it will be is something we need to base the experiment on, because it just might not be that efficient? After all it looked like he was driving it with a one or two horse motor?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 06, 2016, 06:25:03 PM
Allcanadian,

I am a bit surprised by your response but I guess just in a few words my suggestion was too veiled, so I'll try slower.

So in about 100 years we have been disconnected from the progress made in the field:

1. Back in the Franklin's time, people used solid iron rods for their electromagnets.
2. In Tesla's time, it was known the benefit of lamination of the iron cores.
3. In his patent 524426, Tesla showed the effects of phase shift due to the reluctance of the cores (see  Naudin experiment) by interrupting the magnetic circuit.
4. Later Tesla got rid of the iron completely from the core of its coils.

My question for you, and you only is: why did he renounced to the iron and went air core?
If you don't know the answer, then you have work to do. Let your public answer to inspire the true researchers.

For the others I'm sorry, I waste enough time to read your posts.

Respectfully
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 06:56:46 PM
I won't be a boor like yourself, I will explain the audience why I considered tinman's experiment without any value.
His core has 2 ( not one but two) shunts between the 2 coils, hence the signal will be lost. No brainer.



Are those round parts in the core opening iron?  If they are, then I have to agree with the shunting. So the magnet probably saturates them enough to let the wave pass.

And like you said in the latest post about Teslas phase shift transformer, I wonder if the input were stepped up, would there be more of an equal output voltage? like would there be very little to none if the input was lower? Like the Gabriel device, if I remember correctly, the input did not show on the secondary till the input reached a certain level. I think Teslas pat says similary that.

And about Tesla later not using cores at all, Id have to say that he still used them in motors and generators.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 06, 2016, 07:07:00 PM
One thing I have to say on Brads vid with the magnet in place, he had a load on the sec and the voltage on that load was near as much as the input. Now if the windings are identical, even without the load, the sec voltage should be only equal or less than the input voltage. If he takes off the load, is the sec voltage higher than the primary input? If so, with a 1 to 1 ratio, and sine wave in, no pulsing, how is that?  Id say the 100ohm resistor probably drags down the sec voltage more than the tiny bit it is below the input voltage in the scope shot.  If it is higher than the primary, then we need to find out how that comes about for a 1 to 1 ratio transformer.  ??? ;) Heck, Id like to see the sec voltage without the load and without the magnet. ;) All to compare.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 06, 2016, 08:42:50 PM
@barbosi
Quote
So in about 100 years we have been disconnected from the progress made in the field:

1. Back in the Franklin's time, people used solid iron rods for their electromagnets.
2. In Tesla's time, it was known the benefit of lamination of the iron cores.
3. In his patent 524426, Tesla showed the effects of phase shift due to the reluctance of the cores (see  Naudin experiment) by interrupting the magnetic circuit.
4. Later Tesla got rid of the iron completely from the core of its coils.

My question for you, and you only is: why did he renounced to the iron and went air core?
If you don't know the answer, then you have work to do. Let your public answer to inspire the true researchers.

Tesla did not denounce iron and in many applications said it was much more practical. Tesla's research with high voltage, high frequency currents required very fast rise/fall times which were dampened by iron cores and also introduced losses. Tesla moved towards air core coils because they were much more efficient at higher frequencies. Then he reached the next hurdle which was that the current induced in an air coil produced a magnetic field which also limited or dampened the rise/fall times and maximum operating frequency. At this point he invented his "extra coils" which were not dampened by the induced current/magnetic field and free to oscillate at their own natural resonant frequency producing the desired effects he was searching for.
There is much more to it than this short explanation however there is no need to go there here.

Of course this is off topic and we are not debating HV/HF phenomena which has it's own set of difficulties. We are considering electro-magnetic devices which may operate at low frequency and low voltage which are much easier to build and experiment with. Concerning jnaudins experiment and Tesla patent 524426, it should be obvious to anyone skilled in the art how they work.

AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 10:12:11 PM
Oh,the key board Rambo strikes again.
Just like in any other topic,you are all words ,and no action.

You do know Chris is an Aussie like myself-dont you?,and we really dont give a rats ass what you have to say,or pay any attention to your idle threats.

You belong where your language says you come from-and that is the gutter.

You want to take some one on,then take me on big man--dribble out all the foul language you can,and i will do what i have done to you all along--laugh.

You think you are so bad with sprouting out all that foul language,well when i try to picture what you might look like,all i keep seeing is Beaker from the Muppet's.




Yep, our resident moron is all threats and too fat to get out of his arm chair. A school yard bully that never went to school!

Wait till Stefan see this!!! Bill are you seeng this?

Whats the technical difference between: Magneto-motive Force (F) = Turns(N) x Current(I) and Electromotive Force (E.M.F) = -NdPhi/dt (The change in Flux(Phi) through Turns(N) over the course of Time (t))?

Science seems to have some sort of inconsistency here that is never bought up. No one has ever mentioned it, as far as I know.

Quote

EMF:
Electromotive force, also called emf (denoted and measured in volts), is the voltage developed by any source of electrical energy such as a battery or dynamo. It is generally defined as the electrical potential for a source in a circuit.


MMF:
Similar to the way that electromotive force (EMF) drives a current of electrical charge in electrical circuits, magnetomotive force (MMF) 'drives' magnetic flux through magnetic circuits. The term 'magnetomotive force', though, is a misnomer since it is not a force nor is anything moving.



Voltage:
Voltage, electric potential difference, electric pressure or electric tension (formally denoted ∆V or ∆U, but more often simply as V or U, for instance in the context of Ohm's or Kirchhoff's laws) is the difference in electric potential energy between two points per unit electric charge.


Current:
An electric current is a flow of electric charge. In electric circuits this charge is often carried by moving electrons in a wire. It can also be carried by ions in an electrolyte, or by both ions and electrons such as in a plasma.



   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 06, 2016, 10:26:31 PM
1894: US Patent 524,426 (the one Naudin made the suggested tests)
1896: US Patent 555,190 Alternating Motor

These were the last patents where Tesla used in purpose the iron in the cores and in my opinion, it was only to secure the methods of AC machines as they were its babies.

At the turn of century as his work was complete, Tesla stepped away from iron cored machines. He still used them, same as we use them today. Same as some dentists nowadays are still using mercury amalgams in tooth cavities. We proudly call this: tradition.

1901: US Patent 685,953 Method Of Intensifying And Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1899)
1901: US Patent 685,954 Method Of Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1899)
1901: US Patent 685,953 Method Of Intensifying And Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1900)
1901: US Patent 685,012 Means For Increasing The Intensity Of Electrical Oscillations (application filled 1900)

There was no iron in friggin' “Natural Media” and he was not “Increasing The Intensity Of Electrical Oscillations” to make apple candies…

We are still studying methods from 120 years ago using “Dog and Pony Show” methods distributed through youtube? That is in my view an abomination on itself, not mentioning the cheers and drooling from the gallery.

The Master himself delivered the study materials and if we cannot comprehend them, it is our fault. The solution is not to religiously watch mindless demonstrations from illiterates or Doctors alike and worship them as our heroes. We cannot drop into that condition as we want and need to evolve.

Allcanadian, keep thinking about that answer if you really want a progress.
The invitation is for all of you. I know we all want solutions but it wont happen before we identify the real problem, then look into our options with our minds not scopes. It all requires our personal mental effort not books of the past. We still didn't figure out what Tesla was talking about and we still have problems with Lenz?

Regards (shit, I did it again but I don't care about judgment of shills).
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:06:18 PM
I won't be a boor like yourself, I will explain the audience why I considered tinman's experiment without any value.
His core has 2 ( not one but two) shunts between the 2 coils, hence the signal will be lost. No brainer.

With attachment of the magnet, we all know what to expect (a better demonstration is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9AI5KuToM)

Even the phase shift tinman is not able to explain. For the rest of audience that is willing to learn and think for themselves, here is a complete analysis: http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE19en.htm

Why EM junkie defends such pseudo science is behind my comprehension. Unless he's paid to do so - a shill - to distract with disinformation and to deter the real researchers from the real progress that has been made. Yeah people, build away all kind of useless contraptions, waste your time and resources and you'll get far(ish).

Under pretense humour:you out right insult Erfinder and me. Very mature and professional. Your scientific arguments stand for your talents.

Where is the forum's police now?



barbosi I mean Erfondler, I mean you are one and the same....

Whatever you wish to believe in... I have no problem that you choose to stay where you are.

Still waiting for you to prove me wrong!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:11:30 PM

Just the chickens coming home to roost. You started it. If you are going to hand it out you have to be able to take it.

Why was it so funny? (it was hilarious!!!) well after page after page of you calling down various members of the group in the foulest manner possible, one of them turns the table and in extreme innuendo calls (implies) you are a Kunt  .... beautiful Chris! impeccable humour.

ROTFLMAO

Regards,

Ron


PS: Your rebuttal links, that part of your post, are excellent. If you can understand why then then the list is on it's way to healing.

PPS: hey it self censors that word... I had to misspell it to get it to save



Thanks Ron - I am a happy man that my Humour was appreciated ;)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:13:50 PM
Oh,the key board Rambo strikes again.
Just like in any other topic,you are all words ,and no action.

You do know Chris is an Aussie like myself-dont you?,and we really dont give a rats ass what you have to say,or pay any attention to your idle threats.

You belong where your language says you come from-and that is the gutter.

You want to take some one on,then take me on big man--dribble out all the foul language you can,and i will do what i have done to you all along--laugh.

You think you are so bad with sprouting out all that foul language,well when i try to picture what you might look like,all i keep seeing is Beaker from the Muppet's.



This is classically funny BTW!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:15:05 PM

Fuck off c_ock sucker, I was talking to your girlfriend.....




Erfinder - You are acting like a total Douche Bag!!! Grow up you looser!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:18:55 PM
Lol

Hell'i dont even know what he looks like--might not be my type :D

Chris
Wack up a picture of you in your best dress--i need to know  ;)

Oh-and dont forget the pushup bra  :P


Brad




Oh Yeah, here it is:


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:23:51 PM
Lol

Hell'i dont even know what he looks like--might not be my type :D

Chris
Wack up a picture of you in your best dress--i need to know  ;)

Oh-and dont forget the pushup bra  :P


Brad




Anyone guess who this is:

I dont know who the pretty little one is next to them, however!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:32:54 PM
Allcanadian,

I am a bit surprised by your response but I guess just in a few words my suggestion was too veiled, so I'll try slower.

So in about 100 years we have been disconnected from the progress made in the field:

1. Back in the Franklin's time, people used solid iron rods for their electromagnets.
2. In Tesla's time, it was known the benefit of lamination of the iron cores.
3. In his patent 524426, Tesla showed the effects of phase shift due to the reluctance of the cores (see  Naudin experiment) by interrupting the magnetic circuit.
4. Later Tesla got rid of the iron completely from the core of its coils.

My question for you, and you only is: why did he renounced to the iron and went air core?
If you don't know the answer, then you have work to do. Let your public answer to inspire the true researchers.

For the others I'm sorry, I waste enough time to read your posts.

Respectfully



WOW - You have to be kidding dont you!!!!

As if the Great Nikola Tesla had Ferrite's and other super fast, high mu, materials, with solid state switching... This was Nikola Tesla's Dream!!! Read the damn litrature!!!

Youre very clearly speaking from a Hole very near your Sphincter!!!

You total Clown!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 06, 2016, 11:39:35 PM

Anyway,looking forward to seeing your build come together.

Brad


OK, here is a link to the vid





Ron


https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo (https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo)

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 06, 2016, 11:41:49 PM
Are those round parts in the core opening iron?  If they are, then I have to agree with the shunting. So the magnet probably saturates them enough to let the wave pass.

And like you said in the latest post about Teslas phase shift transformer, I wonder if the input were stepped up, would there be more of an equal output voltage? like would there be very little to none if the input was lower? Like the Gabriel device, if I remember correctly, the input did not show on the secondary till the input reached a certain level. I think Teslas pat says similary that.

And about Tesla later not using cores at all, Id have to say that he still used them in motors and generators.

Mags



BINGO - Some are so lost that they just dont know where their feet are relative to their Brain!!!

Tesla built an Electric World and his Inventions are everywhere today, Core material has a Use, it is important in Transformers and many other devices.

To make a claim that Tesla denounced Iron in his work is total Lies!!!

Try build a 10KVA 50Hz Transformer with an Air Core - What sort of Idiot would suggest such a thing!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 07, 2016, 12:39:02 AM
1894: US Patent 524,426 (the one Naudin made the suggested tests)
1896: US Patent 555,190 Alternating Motor

These were the last patents where Tesla used in purpose the iron in the cores and in my opinion, it was only to secure the methods of AC machines as they were its babies.

At the turn of century as his work was complete, Tesla stepped away from iron cored machines. He still used them, same as we use them today. Same as some dentists nowadays are still using mercury amalgams in tooth cavities. We proudly call this: tradition.

1901: US Patent 685,953 Method Of Intensifying And Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1899)
1901: US Patent 685,954 Method Of Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1899)
1901: US Patent 685,953 Method Of Intensifying And Utilizing Effects Transmitted Through Natural Media (application filled 1900)
1901: US Patent 685,012 Means For Increasing The Intensity Of Electrical Oscillations (application filled 1900)

There was no iron in friggin' “Natural Media” and he was not “Increasing The Intensity Of Electrical Oscillations” to make apple candies…

We are still studying methods from 120 years ago using “Dog and Pony Show” methods distributed through youtube? That is in my view an abomination on itself, not mentioning the cheers and drooling from the gallery.

The Master himself delivered the study materials and if we cannot comprehend them, it is our fault. The solution is not to religiously watch mindless demonstrations from illiterates or Doctors alike and worship them as our heroes. We cannot drop into that condition as we want and need to evolve.

Allcanadian, keep thinking about that answer if you really want a progress.
The invitation is for all of you. I know we all want solutions but it wont happen before we identify the real problem, then look into our options with our minds not scopes. It all requires our personal mental effort not books of the past. We still didn't figure out what Tesla was talking about and we still have problems with Lenz?

Regards (shit, I did it again but I don't care about judgment of shills).

You have lost your lollies.
Please post just one instance where Tesla used air core coils for a motor or generator-as that is what we are doing here.

Air core coils are great-if you want to transmit EM radiation all over the place-->energy lost from the system by the way. But if you want to retain as much as that energy within the system(as we do),then you use iron or ferrite cores.

Air core coils are a waste of energy,when dealing with low frequency devices such as we are here.

Your diversional tactics are very transparent,so quit while your behind.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 07, 2016, 12:43:21 AM

OK, here is a link to the vid





Ron


https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo (https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo)

Holy cow Ron,that is one sweet build  ;)

Is the next step to drive a generator from the output shaft-such as Teal did ?.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 07, 2016, 12:45:03 AM



Oh Yeah, here it is:


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Errrr :-[ ,Sorry man--to much woman for me to handle lol.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 07, 2016, 12:54:13 AM
"
Brad, I am not sure why you did the experiment as you did either. It is "Ward's Magnetic Switch" (I know, invented long ago) and it was in this context as a generator that Chris posted it... I thought. Just how efficient it will be is something we need to base the experiment on, because it just might not be that efficient? After all it looked like he was driving it with a one or two horse motor?


Ron

Hi Ron

Yes,we are getting to the generator part of it.
This was just a little experiment i decided to try on the way to the generator part of the project.

I have tanked the primary coil,and now ,at a frequency of 355Hz,i can get the input current to go down from 1.25mA to 600odd uA when i place the magnet into the core,while maintaining the same voltage across the primary coil--while at the same time,get an increase of 3x+ on the output coil.

As pointed out in another post,there is still two small shunts in place in the core,and i will be cutting those out tonight,to see if that makes any difference to what we are seeing.

The field may just be circulating around the primary coil via these shunt's when the magnet is not in place,and negating the shunts when the magnet is in place--we shall see.

I do not get much time in the workshop after i get home from my daily job,so i cant get things done as quickly as i would like--but we will get there.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 07, 2016, 01:10:32 AM
Holy cow Ron,that is one sweet build  ;)

Is the next step to drive a generator from the output shaft-such as Teal did ?.


Brad


Thanks mate!


Yep, tiz why I am on a "Lenz free generator" site, lol


I was really interested in Turion's 120 watts in and 800 watts out... but when I jestingly suggested it was a another Romero it was like standing to close to a hornets nest after poking a sting in it!  LOL


Mind you I was looking for a low lenz generator to go with my Phil Wood's patented motor then. The Teal is really strong but probably uses way more juice. Win some lose some.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 01:41:12 AM

OK, here is a link to the vid





Ron


https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo (https://youtu.be/O3psLcNbqxo)



WOW Nice Build Ron!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 01:50:55 AM
Errrr :-[ ,Sorry man--to much woman for me to handle lol.


Brad



What do you mean? The boys at the Murakami Army Conference just couldnt keep their hands off me...

Hahahaha ;)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 01:59:46 AM



If anyone can suggest a better solution to the phase shift in Brad's experiment, I would be very interested to hear it:




We should always see Electromagnetic Induction ±180 degrees, and being that we see a decrease, away from the closest 180 degree mark, in the opposite direction, is significant.




I think we need to get more technical to explain some of the things we are seeing! Anyone disagree? Or have a better solution? Like I said, this is significant, we need to start looking at these things and understand how to use Lenz's Law to our advantage.

Thus, stopping the reflective effects of Lenz's Law from the Secondary back on to the Primary!!! Here is an example of this!!! (http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg491270/#msg491270)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 07, 2016, 03:26:58 AM


If anyone can suggest a better solution to the phase shift in Brad's experiment, I would be very interested to hear it:



I think we need to get more technical to explain some of the things we are seeing! Anyone disagree? Or have a better solution? Like I said, this is significant, we need to start looking at these things and understand how to use Lenz's Law to our advantage.

Thus, stopping the reflective effects of Lenz's Law from the Secondary back on to the Primary!!! Here is an example of this!!! (http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg491270/#msg491270)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

I know why Tesla wanted the phase shift. But does it give us an advantage toward our goals?  Not being cocky.  I just dont know of the advantages of having it.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 03:37:14 AM
I know why Tesla wanted the phase shift. But does it give us an advantage toward our goals?  Not being cocky.  I just dont know of the advantages of having it.

Mags



Mags - Excellent! Not Cocky at all!

A Counter Balanced Weight, see image below, or put better, maximum MMF is Reflected on a Primary Coil, by the Secondary, when there is a 180 Degree Phase Shift. To Counter this 180 Degree Phase Shift means our Input is minimised. We need to keep this going and thus a small amount of Input will be needed. We also want to maximise our Output, so a Counter MMF is needed.

For a Small Force at the Pivot Point (Our Input) allows a Large Force on the Load (Our Output) and the Counter Weight (Counter-Reaction) is the self Induced Force, equal and opposite to the Load (Our Output) - I hope this makes sense?

This is Newton's Law's of Motion, with one added: Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 07, 2016, 03:45:21 AM



Thus, stopping the reflective effects of Lenz's Law from the Secondary back on to the Primary!!! Here is an example of this!!! (http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg491270/#msg491270)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Ok. With that in mind......

Wouldnt that be the same difference as inputting a constant sine wave vs a simple boost circuit?

Like if in the boost circuit we pulse the primary in a polarity that the single rectifier off the secondary does not conduct until the primary current is cut and the collapse induces the secondary and in the direction of the rectifier to the output. Is that not Lenz less?

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 07, 2016, 04:06:20 AM


Mags - Excellent! Not Cocky at all!

A Counter Balanced Weight, see image below, or put better, maximum MMF is Reflected on a Primary Coil, by the Secondary, when there is a 180 Degree Phase Shift. To Counter this 180 Degree Phase Shift means our Input is minimised. We need to keep this going and thus a small amount of Input will be needed. We also want to maximise our Output, so a Counter MMF is needed.

For a Small Force at the Pivot Point (Our Input) allows a Large Force on the Load (Our Output) and the Counter Weight (Counter-Reaction) is the self Induced Force, equal and opposite to the Load (Our Output) - I hope this makes sense?

This is Newton's Law's of Motion, with one added: Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

I can understand that the input is minimized. But referring to my last post, say the boost circuit is setup so the pulse into the primary induces the secondary during the pulse, there would be an increased input in doing so vs the secondary only being induced by the field collapse after the primary is turned off, depending on the polarity of the output rectifier/output setup.

So Im not seeing the advantage, yet. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 04:12:06 AM
Ok. With that in mind......

Wouldnt that be the same difference as inputting a constant sine wave vs a simple boost circuit?

Like if in the boost circuit we pulse the primary in a polarity that the single rectifier off the secondary does not conduct until the primary current is cut and the collapse induces the secondary and in the direction of the rectifier to the output. Is that not Lenz less?

Mags



Electromagnetic Induction is the Pumping of Electrical Energy, Energy over Time, or Watt Seconds. Lenz's Law is the direction of this Energy, equal and opposite.

This is Mass Energy Equivalence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence), where the Mass, Copper in our case, is the Source of Energy / C2 (The Speed of Light Squared)

Mass = Energy / The Speed of Light2

Electromagnetic Induction, the Direction of it, Lenz's Law, is always ±180 Degrees out of Phase.

By incorporating into Systems, phenomena where Electromagnetic Induction is invoked many times more than once, is of benefit. Each Energy Source, the Mass being Pumped, can be utilised in its own right.

There are many ways, but each source of Induction must be incorporated to assist the other in a sequence the same as mentioned.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 04:46:07 AM



I think I see where the confusion is coming from. For a moment, think basic AC Transformer, Input is Output less losses. Lenz's Law applies. Efficiency is 90+ %... Also, one needs to think of Energy Output, not Energy Input. These are opposite so if you think Input, reverse the idea and then its Output.

The Primary Invokes Induction in the Secondary. The MMF, Magnetising Force at a single point in time is equal to the MMF, Magnetising Force of the Secondary, Reflected back on Primary, this being a Destructive Interference, ±180 Degrees out of Phase Magnetically, but Constructive Interference Wave Electrically.

Thus the Input Current must Increase to keep over coming this reflective MMF. This is the BH Curve.

See the below Image:

We need to make geometrically, or systematically, via Switching, changes, to allow this 1:1 less losses, Energy exchange, more efficient.

Imagine for a minute a 5KG weight, we need to lift it 1 Foot. What’s the most efficient way to do this?

Counter Balance this Weight!!! See Below Image:

If we have two Magnetic Fields, the Force of Each Counter balancing each other in the same way, we will see one Field assist our Input and one oppose our Input.

Permanent Magnets are of benefit to these systems because of this Counter Balancing.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 07, 2016, 05:00:16 AM





OK, getting back to the mag base switcher, ready?  it is happening over on another forum


Quote
Hi guys, I will be back in about three or four hours to answer any questions and reply to comments, But in the mean time I wanted to mention something. The switcher is a product of 5 people's work, Myself, Mark, Nicolas, Lawrence and Bruno. It's being referred to as the LaFonte Switcher but it is really the LaFonte Group Switcher.[/size]I don't want all the credit to get attached to me. We work as a team and everyone has stuck with me through all the designs that did not work and I am very lucky to have such a great team. We don't know how many machines we built that might be overunity because we ran out of money before R&D could be completed. Mark has a storage trailer full of our prototypes. Maybe someday we will have the funds to complete the R&D on all of them. There are close to 2000 designs on paper. Maybe with the success of the switcher we can build them all.Back in several hours,Butch[quote/]


edit...up to page 5  and I see you are already there EM, LOL


http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/45/#.V8-AacsrJpQ (http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/45/#.V8-AacsrJpQ)
[size=78%]
[/size]

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 05:17:19 AM




OK, getting back to the mag base switcher, ready?  it is happening over on another forum


Quote



Hi guys, I will be back in about three or four hours to answer any questions and reply to comments, But in the mean time I wanted to mention something. The switcher is a product of 5 people's work, Myself, Mark, Nicolas, Lawrence and Bruno. It's being referred to as the LaFonte Switcher but it is really the LaFonte Group Switcher.[/size]I don't want all the credit to get attached to me. We work as a team and everyone has stuck with me through all the designs that did not work and I am very lucky to have such a great team. We don't know how many machines we built that might be overunity because we ran out of money before R&D could be completed. Mark has a storage trailer full of our prototypes. Maybe someday we will have the funds to complete the R&D on all of them. There are close to 2000 designs on paper. Maybe with the success of the switcher we can build them all.Back in several hours,Butch[quote/]

[/size]
http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/45/#.V8-AacsrJpQ (http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/45/#.V8-AacsrJpQ)





Hi Ron - Videos/Channel removed?

This the same by the looks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0FA6JJ0BQ

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 07, 2016, 06:55:36 AM
Ok. With that in mind......

Wouldnt that be the same difference as inputting a constant sine wave vs a simple boost circuit?

Like if in the boost circuit we pulse the primary in a polarity that the single rectifier off the secondary does not conduct until the primary current is cut and the collapse induces the secondary and in the direction of the rectifier to the output. Is that not Lenz less?

Mags

To take it a step further...

Let say we have a 1 to 1 ratio transformer. If we apply current to the primary with the secondary open, the inductance will be high, so the input will be low. No Lenz.

If we put a load on the secondary, as it gets induced by the primary, the input to the primary increases. We have Lenz.

So there is a clear reason why the input is lower without the load on the secondary.

Now say we get the transformer to be one that is 180deg out of phase on the secondary. Why would we think that the sec output could be more than the input, because the input is not being affected by the current of the secondary?  If the primary input is lesser because the sec does not affect it, why would we think that the secondary would have more out than what went in? In comparison, running the transformer at its normal AC sine ratings, the input while the sec is loaded is more, but so is the sec output, as compared to being 180deg out of phase pri AND sec. Like the boost converter I described earlier, the input is greater than the output, even if the input is first stored in the transformer, and then dumped to the output. So why might we expect the sec of a 180deg capable transformer to be anything greater than the input??

Im not seeing it.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 08:02:13 AM

Hi Mags:



To take it a step further...

Let say we have a 1 to 1 ratio transformer. If we apply current to the primary with the secondary open, the inductance will be high, so the input will be low. No Lenz.

If we put a load on the secondary, as it gets induced by the primary, the input to the primary increases. We have Lenz.

So there is a clear reason why the input is lower without the load on the secondary.



To here, I completely agree. You are right as far as I understand your post.




Now say we get the transformer to be one that is 180deg out of phase on the secondary.




Electromagnetic Induction from Primary to Secondary is always ±180 Degrees out of Phase - We dont need to do anything to make this happen.



Why would we think that the sec output could be more than the input, because the input is not being affected by the current of the secondary? 




Yes, this is right, at this point there is 1:1, less losses, transformation of Electric Energy. You get out, what you put In, Less Losses.



If the primary input is lesser because the sec does not affect it, why would we think that the secondary would have more out than what went in?




With a Single Primary Coil and a Single Secondary Coil, there can be no gain!



In comparison, running the transformer at its normal AC sine ratings, the input while the sec is loaded is more, but so is the sec output, as compared to being 180deg out of phase pri AND sec.




Again, Primary and Secondary are always ±180 Degrees out of Phase. This is Electromagnetic Induction and Lenz's Law is the Direction of the Induced EMF.



Like the boost converter I described earlier, the input is greater than the output, even if the input is first stored in the transformer, and then dumped to the output.




Between a Primary Coil and a Secondary Coil, Electromagnetic Induction occurs once!

At this point we give up and cop a loss, mostly small, %10 or there about’s, 1% on the really big Sub Station Transformers.

If we look at a Generator, there is Induction occurring many times all at once all adding to the Total output. All in Phase and all Inducing a Current in the same direction. See: Electrical Energy 101 - Faradays Law of Induction - Part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7HKsDfY68)

You can see, there is a U Shape winding, three windings in total, in a Step Winding configuration. It is amazing to see, its very true, but any Conductor/Coil that sees a Change in Magnetic Flux is going to have an EMF in it.

Why limit ourselves to once like in a Transformer?




So why might we expect the sec of a 180deg capable transformer to be anything greater than the input??

Im not seeing it.

Mags



All things take time. There is a Curve and this curve is dependent on the determination and understandings acquired.

I really believe, strongly, that the first place to start when learning about Electrical Energy, is how we already do it!!! There is no point re-inventing the wheel when there is a wheel already invented!!! Take your Motor/Generator, how does the EMF in the little Toroid get there?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 07, 2016, 08:31:52 AM
Then what is it in phase shift we are looking for? 90deg?   ?  And what for?

Like Tesla needed it to operate a motor he designed. I guess so that the motor could run on single phase where available.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 08:56:56 AM
Then what is it in phase shift we are looking for? 90deg?   ?  And what for?

Like Tesla needed it to operate a motor he designed. I guess so that the motor could run on single phase where available.

Mags


Mags - I was always told when doing my Apprenticeship: "You must ask the right Question"

That is the right Question!

   Primary: Reactive Input - Voltage to Current as close to or more than 90 Degrees Phase Shift.

   Secondary: 180 Degrees to the Input, this will be Real Power, Voltage to Current is Zero Degrees Phase Shift as long as the Load is Resistive.

   Tertiary: In Phase, Zero Degrees to the Input, or very close to Zero. This will also be Real Power! This drives the Input, it is our Counter Balance we talked about above. This Coil makes the Input Reactive, the more Load on this Coil and thus the Secondary, the more Reactive the Input becomes.

Of course these are within some tolerance! Some Angles of Degrees may vary some, 5 or 10 degrees and all Systems are a bit different. So when I say: Zero, or ±180 Degrees, this is just a "Close To" Figure.

All this, is: Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction Newton's Laws of Motion and we have added the Counter-Reaction part.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 11:15:11 AM




To give some more insight, and Brad may wish to add or interject if he sees this a bit different, but if we look at a standard Transformer and add an adjustable load...

Slowly increase the Load, or decrease the Load Resistance, and measure the Input Voltage and Current.

What you will see is a slow change in the Voltage to Current Phase Angle. This Angle will start off at maybe 75 Degrees or more 85 Degrees...

As you slowly increase the Load this will close, 70, 65, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25, 20.... Until the core becomes saturated and or Electrical Break Down occurs.

So, what does this mean, what are we seeing? Yes, the total Inductance is being reduced by means of Magnetic Field in the region of the Coil. As the Inductance is lost, the Coil becomes more and more like a Resistor. Current keeps going up and up, as the Reactive part of the Impedance (Z), is lost.

Now, the point, we see a Reactive Power component on the Input at 90 Degrees, this is where the Input Coil sees no real Load, the Load is entirely Counter Balanced if you like. For example: 1 + -1 = 0

Or as above:  5Kg + -5Kg = 0Kg

So the Input does not have too much or any real work because there is a Counter Balancing of Total overall Forces.


I hope this helps some! All experiments are very easily verifiable and provable on the bench!

Today, we see a very detailed description of how to use Lenz's Law to our advantage!

We even had an example!!!

COP: 4.249 thanks to Partzman's excellent work!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 07, 2016, 05:00:08 PM





Hi Ron - Videos/Channel removed?

This the same by the looks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0FA6JJ0BQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0FA6JJ0BQ)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org




Sorry, I got the cart before the horse there, I had sarted near the beginning and thought it would lead up to the present.


Surprise for me... the whole thing ended in 2010


Which leaves a mystery... did it work??? why did it end???


http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/195/#.V9Ap3csrJpQ


But it was the mag base concept for sure


Ron







Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 07, 2016, 11:55:31 PM



Sorry, I got the cart before the horse there, I had sarted near the beginning and thought it would lead up to the present.


Surprise for me... the whole thing ended in 2010


Which leaves a mystery... did it work??? why did it end???


http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/195/#.V9Ap3csrJpQ


But it was the mag base concept for sure


Ron



Hi Ron,

Most all people don’t have a lot of time, most don’t have a lot of patience, most are easily worn down by small things...

Everyone has their own path, we see much interest at the beginning of the thread, then it runs down and we see that it appears as if we are wasting our time. Even though a thread may have a lot of reads, we see no real progress as we don’t see what others are doing.

A lot of people keep their work secret.

A lot want to take others work and profit from it. Or take the credit for others work.

This, subjects of interest, come and go like the seasons, Change must come slowly and steadily.

But there must be stamina and patience, for things are easily lost without these quality’s!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on September 08, 2016, 12:35:05 AM
When I'm using a solid steel rotor for my pm's it changes the effects I get when using separated pieces of steel as the rotor, Not talking about out-put , how the fields mix together.
Electrical flow is nothing , It's how the fields work together, Electricity is just a by-product.
artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 08, 2016, 01:00:50 AM
When I'm using a solid steel rotor for my pm's it changes the effects I get when using separated pieces of steel as the rotor, Not talking about out-put , how the fields mix together.
Electrical flow is nothing , It's how the fields work together, Electricity is just a by-product.
artv



Hey ArtV,

This is exactly right, Magnetic Field Interactions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvUiQ3IMHMU) are important to see and understand.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 08, 2016, 01:48:28 AM


Hi Ron,

Most all people don’t have a lot of time, most don’t have a lot of patience, most are easily worn down by small things...

Everyone has their own path, we see much interest at the beginning of the thread, then it runs down and we see that it appears as if we are wasting our time. Even though a thread may have a lot of reads, we see no real progress as we don’t see what others are doing.

A lot of people keep their work secret.

A lot want to take others work and profit from it. Or take the credit for others work.

This, subjects of interest, come and go like the seasons, Change must come slowly and steadily.

But there must be stamina and patience, for things are easily lost without these quality’s!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


You are describing the real world there... unfortunately, lol


Anyway that picture of the cast iron mag base model threw me ... I assumed this was what they were building and talking about but in reality Butch's device seems to be some some strange double rotor thing with the coils in the middle... yet they talk about no gap needed and cogging in the gap, so I get confused. I will stick with the one you posted, I can visualize that and understand how it might work.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 08, 2016, 02:18:14 AM

You are describing the real world there... unfortunately, lol


Anyway that picture of the cast iron mag base model threw me ... I assumed this was what they were building and talking about but in reality Butch's device seems to be some some strange double rotor thing with the coils in the middle... yet they talk about no gap needed and cogging in the gap, so I get confused. I will stick with the one you posted, I can visualize that and understand how it might work.


Ron



Hi Ron - Yes good idea. The Wardforce Generator is a very good learning tool. I was never able to get more out than in, but I saw some amazing effects in this device that helped me!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 08, 2016, 05:33:32 AM
I guess the point Im trying to make is, in my experience, so far, Lenz or no lenz, the inputs and the outputs should be similar as in the In is always more than the Out.

I have been thinking more about the multi core inductors that I had worked with some time back. Some new thoughts on things comes along with time past. No matter what your education level, in the real world, we run into things that are just not taught nor given experiences in. So many times I have run into new things and had seen(in my mind) possible potentials to them, more before I experience the thing.  Like BiFi windings. We were not taught of the capacitance of the windings and how the windings interact capacitively at much greater voltage difference between the 2 separate wires next to each other. The only thing I remember on having 2 wires wound together as such was used in a relay winding, where the higher current winding had the field strong enough to pull the relay closed, and then you switch power to the low current winding to hold the relay switch closed to save/reduce power input if the relay was going to be in the closed position a long time.

Ive done many tests so far on bifi. Some are very useful for certain things. But nothing so far to get OU that I know of or maybe failed to realize along the way. But as time goes on, there is a baby Mags in my head that seems to be working on these things in the background and posts it on the board behind my forehead. ;D

Anyway, this discussion on lenz gave me new thoughts on what some may call, Russian Ragdolls, multi core transformers. I got this one out because I have some new ideas on how to test it in some different configurations and some resonance tests.

So while I think more on that, Im going to try and get these other tests on the toroid, adding secondaries where maybe the stator coil is shorted and we check the output of the secondary as the rotor spins.  Just wondering if loading the secondary will add more drag on the rotor than what the shorted stator winding has already.  I kinda want to say it will be more but will have to see.

Mags

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 08, 2016, 07:08:32 AM
First, you can take frequency as a energy multiplier if Lenz law is acting not against us.
Second you can use capacitor disruptive discharge.
But in fact if you look closely it all is based on simple laws ...
If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times. The effect is like in Tariel Kapanadze video - device will work (for a while) even when turned off .
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 08, 2016, 07:43:22 AM
First, you can take frequency as a energy multiplier if Lenz law is acting not against us.
Second you can use capacitor disruptive discharge.
But in fact if you look closely it all is based on simple laws ...
If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times. The effect is like in Tariel Kapanadze video - device will work (for a while) even when turned off .

Hey Forest

"If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times."

So what I think you mean......

Say we have a toroid core and we wind a primary on the left side and say 3 secondaries on the right, then we apply input to the primary. So now we load 1 sec. If no lenz for this transformer, then the input would remain constant no matter how many secondaries we load.

But so far, we dont have that capability.

Makes me think though...

Lets say we have a transformer with 2 secondaries. Each secondary has a diode and a cap in series, one with the diode in a polarity that charges its cap during the on pulse of the primary, and the other secondary with its diode in polarity to collapse current when the input pulse is turned off.

So the primary pulse should be long enough just to fully charge the first secondaries cap, and off long enough to let the collapse current charge the second secondary cap.  Once the first secondary cap is full, the primary field is at max. So did we use the 'field produced' more than once? ;D Is there more total energy in the 2 caps than what was used to initially produce the field?

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 08, 2016, 08:42:24 AM
Yes,second example is good. Alternatively you can use a low Rds mosfet and put a single current kick into primary and short it with mosfet , then the inductance and capacitance of primary will play together and produce nice almost not diminishing ring. Let say you do this at the rate of 50Hz, the actual oscillations are 1Mhz and the secondary load with 1% of "Lenz  problem".
That's how T.K was able to get high output IMHO. So in fact the first very simple schematic was correct.
The alternatively you can use disruptive discharge (even with a high Q coil to get a higher rise) from low current high voltage aka Akula . 24V-> 20kV Katcher into a no Lenz problem output. The simplest low Lenz output is very very low inductance coil . And so on.... The essence is simple induction laws as a base.3 laws.Faraday-Ampere-Lenz.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 08, 2016, 08:46:08 AM
Once Lenz problem is out, we can use resonance to avoid 1:1 relationship of primary to secondary energy. but resonance is nto necessary.

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 08, 2016, 08:50:53 AM
You see, the secondary output is not taken from primary input. Likewise the generator output is not made by mechanical energy.
As example take two strong men pulling the same rope - if they are of the same power or one is slightly stronger and they are pulling the rope each one on his own direction then the overall image is they are very weak - because there is very weak action on rope ;-) The corect method of measuring the effect is to look at rope closely.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 09, 2016, 12:33:42 AM
I ran my example on sim.  I was wrong.

When the first secondary is induced during the on pulse, when the cap is empty, the current in the primary is highest. And as the cap fills, the secondaries affect on the primary lessens and the primary current is reduced to a level of seeing no secondary load. Then when the input is cut, the field left in the core is not max as I had imagined, so the collapse induction on the second secondary does not have enough to fill the second cap to the level of the first cap. :(

So the next step to test this is to eliminate the empty cap situation and have the circuit run to try and keep the 2 caps full while using the caps charge to run a load. This will help to keep the  fields in the core more equalized for each phase of operation. lol I think.  Ill post on it when I get to it


Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 09, 2016, 08:23:52 AM
How about such idea https://easyeda.com/forest/Recovery-cQKEWdvN5


 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: FatBird on September 09, 2016, 04:57:38 PM
3 phase motors have 3 field coils.
So we don't see what your point is.
                                                                                                                                               .
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 09, 2016, 08:11:32 PM
Erfinder


Yes.Trinity.But the pattern is repeated almost from 1831. There is one additional topic. http://www.richlandsource.com/area_history/mansfield-s-d-m-cook-and-his-enduring-energy/article_fbac1344-779e-11e3-8a2f-10604b9f7e7e.html


He was not crazy at all just limited in resources.He could fly in other times...
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 10, 2016, 04:38:33 PM


  Do you have any idea why three coils is significant?  Why two will never do?

Regards


How are they connected? in series? parallel? common core?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 10, 2016, 10:09:19 PM

My vague questions and or suggestions mean nothing when viewed from the collectively agreed upon perspective.
snip
Think about your own question, what motivated you asking exactly what you asked.  I don't build machines with core material, I have read, and have no reason to disagree with it, that Nature doesn't fill its holes.


Regards


Ah yes but the statement, "do you have any idea why three coils is (sic) significant?" can be construed as a, "collectively agreed upon perspective" statement, requiring a collectively agreed upon answer.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 10, 2016, 11:25:51 PM

ok....now what....



An answer that a person with my limited intellect can understand... from a builders perspective.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 11, 2016, 11:57:26 AM
snip...
In your motors (which don't exist, soon to become motor-generators when one experiences the device and the forces operating within it as the force operating within it), there are two instances during the cycle which are of key importance to us.  The point of maximum induced potential, and the zero crossing.  Why are these two important and what relation do they have to the necessity of three coils?
snip...
Perhaps the third coil gives a resultant output from

1. a pulse given to one coil at its greatest induced voltage potential.?
2. a pulse to the other coil at its greatest induced current potential.?
Or
3. A combination of pulses in each coil timed at each high induced voltage / current potentials?
4. None of the above !
Cheers






Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 11, 2016, 09:06:59 PM
The generator is running on free electricity. The input energy is only used to drain you wallet ;-)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: gyulasun on September 12, 2016, 04:26:02 PM

Hello forest,

You wrote on Trinity in your Reply 464 to Erfinder, meaning you do agree that 3 coils are neccessary.
Then Erfinder  asked you this:
 

  Do you have any idea why three coils is significant?  Why two will never do?


Would you mind answering his question, please?  I am also interested to learn.

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: gyulasun on September 13, 2016, 11:59:29 PM
Hi erfinder,

I am not there yet, I have not gone deeply into this. This is why I asked forest but either he knows it but egoism defeats him or he does not. And the question also arises as to what he thinks why 3 coils are needed it may not cover what's your take on this...  I do think what you would say would come from tests.

You shared several pointers in this thread what you think, one can find them when one wades through, surely in the quotes below there may be either directly or remotely relevant ones to the 3 coil question and surely there has to be missing relevant quotes too:

"the coils are operated at different times, simultaneous-sequential reactions in the remaining two, non excited, non closed circuit coils, do not allow one to operate in accordance with the law for the purpose of using the law to one's advantage"  and

" I identified three induction processes, out of these three, there are multiple distinct instances when current is induced."  then 
"Technically (my dogma) there is no such thing as a motor, the device we treat as such is and will always be a generator, one which we bias with DC when the fields within the device are quadrature.  We inject an impulse directly into the wave of the generator, when the amplitude of the generated wave is peaked.  The direction of our impulse is almost exactly (might as well be exact) 180° to that of the induced."  and

"we must give the induced a path through the inducer, to a limited degree, this is exactly what we are doing in motors.  Our problem is that we have yet to consider the dual nature of that which we claim to understand via the laws.  When we finally comprehend its nature, from its perspective, we recognize that we are doing everything right, but doing so in systems with piss poor self reference."

"In your motors (which don't exist, soon to become motor-generators when one experiences the device and the forces operating within it as the force operating within it), there are two instances during the cycle which are of key importance to us.  The point of maximum induced potential, and the zero crossing.  Why are these two important and what relation do they have to the necessity of three coils?"

"Point of maximum induced potential equates to L. Zero crossing equates to C.
Inductance and capacitance are not just a function of frequency, nor are they restricted to cross area as cross section is associated with proximity or lack thereof, nor is it restricted to the available surface area offered by the material.  L and C are, in addition to the aforenamed, a function of geometry, locked in space and time to a very specific geometric locations. Parallel LC resonance is to L what series LC resonance is to C.  Series and parallel resonance are higher forms of L and C."  and

"On a side note, I am investigating how energy is transferred between L and C, both are source in turn, both are sink in turn, but at resonance something else takes place. The impedance = 0 condition opens the system up so as to allow energy to move in both directions simultaneously, assuming the means for exciting such is available.  The prerequisite, resonance must be maintained over a wide band, I call this condition "Infinite Harmonic Resonant Self Oscillation", I mentioned that already......  The key to accomplishing this is understanding what Lenz really is doing in your system and controlling it (Lenz, not running away from it or cutting it out like cancer) through the manipulation of reactive cross section at key instances....sounds complicated but can be broken down into changing the impedance of the circuit, impedance here being a direct reference to CEMF, how, where and when, and which direction it is induced."  and

"The force we induce has to be given a path through its inducer.  .. No other relation yields the desired result. So many got it right in the past, but their published works make no sense to the classically trained, these souls are written off, as idiots, in spite of their many of years of experience and commitment to the status quo, in their respective field of science."

"Setup x number of beat generators, x being equal to the number of envelopes which are to be voided, all are voided save one (voidance isn't actually what I am aiming at here, however, I use the term in place of that which I have come to recognize as fact as it's far simpler to just say void as the term applies to the removed (the envelopes), than to expound on means and or method by which the phase angle of the removed envelopes has changed to, and more importantly how this set of circumstances is maintained.
The relation of the added beats is such that it causes the isolated envelope to transition from a standing to traveling wave.  Now you have a wave packet which bounces between impedances, a less than ideal set of circumstances (a situation which demands one's attention prior to trying to apply this for practical use) for the packet of energy you have worked hard at isolating and mobilizing. This is a fruit of my labor, the ideal inducer."

"To truly neutralize the effect that Lenz has on your system you simply need to comprehend what he's saying.  I suggested that beat generation is the solution, it says it all, when you recognize what's being said, when you comprehend what's being implied."

And one full post is also worth referred to:  http://overunity.com/15307/lenz-free-generator/msg490502/#msg490502 

However, these quotes cannot be fully understood without doing correct tests.

And actually you have not shared your setup on this, maybe you never will. The latter case would be most unfortunate.
 
Greetings
Gyula
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 14, 2016, 05:15:18 AM
@Gyula
Quote
However, these quotes cannot be fully understood without doing correct tests. [/size]And actually you have not shared your setup on this, maybe you never will. The latter case would be most unfortunate.


If you only knew what Erfinder gave you in the quotes you posted you would be very surprised. It is all there but you have to listen and you have to think about what was actually said word for word in the context it was said.


The wonderful part about leaving many things open to interpretation is that it is open to interpretation. One man may say I do this and you interpret it as something else and then follow through and Eureka you have it. Then you go tell that man I have replicated your device and this is how it works. Then he tells you no that is nothing like what I was doing but you managed to succeed anyways.


I cannot tell you how many times I have been completely wrong about something and succeeded anyways. Personally I hope Erfinder doesn't give anything away on a silver platter because that would spoil all the fun.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 14, 2016, 04:54:39 PM
@tinman

I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition however I have a different set of rules.


1) The motor/generator can have any configuration you want however to keep it simple the device should be no larger than let's say 20 lb.


2)The entire device as well as all associated circuitry must be clearly visible.


3)My favorite... No power supplies of any kind are allowed and the device must be electrically dead in every sense of the word at the start. However we are allowed to spin up the device by hand at the start to any RPM we can muster.


4)A storage capacitor of a value to be determined is allowed to store the output from the device which will also be the only electrical input allowed to the device. The capacitor will be at zero voltage at the start of the test.


5)A DMM or preferably an oscilloscope will show the voltage on the capacitor during the entire duration of the test.


You see this is where all the BS stops and either the capacitor voltage rises or it falls. The rate at which the capacitor voltage rises or falls determines the total efficiency. If the initial spin up at the start cannot generate enough power to charge the capacitor to operate the device and maintain it then your hooped.


AC

Well mine is coming along fine--how is yours AC ?

First run using power supply-not looking to bad on the power draw  :D

Once you have your first run up and posted here AC,we will switch to caps only  ;)
What size cap are we to use AC ?--not that it really matters  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWI36mCyDI


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 14, 2016, 04:58:35 PM

Personally I hope Erfinder doesn't give anything away on a silver platter because that would spoil all the fun.

AC


Is a lack of empathy, bordering on rudeness, just a prerequisite for this forum?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 14, 2016, 05:15:54 PM

Is a lack of empathy, bordering on rudeness, just a prerequisite for this forum?


Ron

Only from some Ron.
Some of us show what is,and some play--riddle me this.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: gyulasun on September 14, 2016, 10:42:13 PM
Hi Erfinder,

Thanks for showing 'something' (as you put it) and I hope some folks can do such tests and they would still get something further on in this process from you.  I do not think your 20 minutes were in vain... 
I have been engaged in another project and having my 'lab' on the kitchen table in a block of flats I can proceed slowly (anyway this kind of tinkering is a hobby for me).  So I cannot join 'your class' as a participating student any time soon.

Greetings,
Gyula
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2016, 12:20:48 AM
Well mine is coming along fine--how is yours AC ?

First run using power supply-not looking to bad on the power draw  :D

Once you have your first run up and posted here AC,we will switch to caps only  ;)
What size cap are we to use AC ?--not that it really matters  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWI36mCyDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWI36mCyDI)


Brad


Interesting, but video exceeds my attention span, LOL
Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: gyulasun on September 15, 2016, 12:53:16 AM
Hi Erfinder,

I think that when JB put the core into the coil, the input current dropped  (say to a few mA from the earlier 200 mA, full scale was 5 A) because the inserted core increased the L inductance of the so far air cored coil hence the AC impedance also increased. So the current consumption decreased, it had to.

What I did not understand back at the time when he released that video was why he mentioned the no back emf feature? Because the induced voltage in the coil was shown on the scope...  see attached shot where I put an arrow to the induced peak voltage.
Later on JB showed the advanced version on his zero force motor and it included 2 half toroidal coil sets, here the back emf may have indeed been cancelled but not with the single coil version shown above.

If you disagree with any of these, please give your thoughts on them. Probably you have differing thoughts, for you mention a Tesla patent on the concept... 

Now I know I misunderstood what you wasted on the 20 minutes, sorry for that...

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 01:22:26 AM

 


Start building.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuz3Yr6nmA


.  I can see many already turning their nose up at the mentioning of hv, as there's no power there....I pity  those (no i don't) who lack forsight necessary to see how utterly stupid such an opinion is.  Why not post this at the onset of the discussion?  It's on topic?  The simple answer, build it and learn why!  The funniest quote I got from a real guru was this....."you won't power your house with a rollerskate."


Oh, and for the record, you demonstrate once again that you are owned by the, your, adversary, Lenz.  Consumption decrease is not a sign that you are winning.

OMG
You have got to be kidding Erfinder--really  :o

You show a coil shorting circuit placed across a stepper motor,and you think you have shown something wonderful lol.
Did you not watch my video carefully,where i show the very same,only at a slower RPM,and with the use of weak ceramic magnets.
My-how far behind you really are.

Quote
Why is my demo important, well.....it's the most stupid simple hv generator that anyone can build if they were so inclined.  When tuned, it exhibits the lowest possible drag of any generator that I have yet to build using off the shelf shit

Your video is only about 80 years behind the rest of the world-->see pic.
The only reason you think that a stepper motor produces very little drag,is the very same reason you think the dynaflux generator is wonderful.You-like Jim,have no idea where to look,when you think something is doing something wonderful.
I have shown-not so long ago,a stepper motor driving 2x 1 watt incandescent bulbs,without any reflection what so ever on the prime mover--big deal,there is nothing out of the ordinary there,and as long as you shun measuring equipment the way you do,you will remain behind the rest of the world-just as you are now.

Quote
20 minutes gone....and for what....  wanna show them something, throw together an SG no power supply at all....the circuit should charge its own supply cap, and that cap should then be pulsed across the motor winding.....neons should light up if you got one

So many words of !wisdom!  ::).
So will you be goining myself and AC in our little build off,and put your self running SG  ::) up for show?-or,is it as usual,just more talk?.

....here's the catch...
EVERYONE KNOWS THIS, OR SHOULD BE BEATEN TO A PULP WITH THEIR SG MACHINES FOR NOT KNOWING!
Instead of a meter and CVR clarification, it would have made more sense, you being a SG guru, for you to have discussed how and why the SG is and will always be a generator.

The SG is,always has been,and always will be,just a mechanically switched boost converter-nothing more.
By the way,the pulse motor i just built,is not an SG.
The !SG! was designed and built many years before JB came on the scene--he just stole the idea,and made it his own.
Many here have posted links to the original builders of the !SG! motor.

So,as i said,you are that far behind Erfinder,that you cant see past your own stupidity.
See that 1906 phone bell ringer below ?-well that is your stepper motor,but with mechanical points coil shorting--and it will light 6x 110 volt neons in series,with a simple slow crank of the handle--oh,and with less drag than your stepper motor has lol.

As i said,you are so far behind,it is not funny  :-[ :-[

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 01:35:55 AM
Almost forgot....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc

This video came out back in the day when orbo was "the" topic.  If I recall the circumstances surrounding the release of this video, JB was saying in so many words, that what they were demonstrating, he could do with his tech.  Note the consumption drop when he adjusts the core..... After this video, folk got really excited about consumption decrease, thinking that it was directly related to self running...blah blah blah....sad, folks are duping themselves.  JB knows exactly what he was doing when he added that core, and so do I.  Tesla has a patent on the concept, you should look into it, or not.... 

All that to say this, your late...

LOL

I see that JB knows about as much as you and Jim !tha man! Murray.
None of you have any idea as to what happened when JB placed the iron tube inside the coil,and why the current input dropped lol.  ::)
Dose an increase in inductance mean anything to you?.

200mA at who knows what voltage--wow,he's on a winner there lol.
And JB is suppose to be some sort of radio tech guru lol.

Why you continue to post such piffle is beyond me  ::)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 15, 2016, 02:41:56 AM
@tinman
Quote
Well mine is coming along fine--how is yours AC ?[/size]First run using power supply-not looking to bad on the power draw  Once you have your first run up and posted here AC,we will switch to caps only  What size cap are we to use AC ?--not that it really matters  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWI36mCyDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWI36mCyDI)


Nice clean build using two shaded pole cores... I like it. Even if our best laid plans do not always succeed and god knows we have all been there craftsmanship and pride in what we do should prevail.


Correct me if I am wrong, from your wiring it looks as if you are pulsing both cores which are in series triggered by the reed switch/transistor combo. The inductive discharge from the series coils goes to a FWBR then through the NE2 acting as a clipper which I like and  this charges a capacitor. I believe you said you have also tied the output cap to the power supply which I am going to guess is in parallel with the power supply limiting the input...nice. As this would be a precursor to our input/output tied to a single capacitor. Words can be powerful things and I was listening to your words, more so how you said them... the human voice is the window to our soul. I listen to everyone given the chance.


In any case, you seem to have clipped the high voltage end of the inductive discharge from the coils which we can assume is near equal yet opposite to the input leaving the difference between the input/output in your capacitor. The question is ... where do you go from here?. The real question is where do you find the impetus which changes this equation and I believe you already know your capacitor is losing energy. Been there done that and sometimes it is not so much the scenery we may pass but knowing were moving in the right direction which matters and our input/output capacitor tells no lies.


Do you know what I thought was interesting about your video?... your hands and your finger nails. If you want to know where a man has been and his conviction to getting shit done you look at his hands. There are those that pretend to work for a living and there are those that do and not unlike our capacitor our hands tell no lies.


All in all I like your video even if I'm going to kick your ass but that does not mean we cannot be friends. Competition is good so long as we are moving in the right direction and this direction benefits others.




AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 06:50:30 AM
@tinman

Nice clean build using two shaded pole cores... I like it. Even if our best laid plans do not always succeed and god knows we have all been there craftsmanship and pride in what we do should prevail.


Correct me if I am wrong, from your wiring it looks as if you are pulsing both cores which are in series triggered by the reed switch/transistor combo. The inductive discharge from the series coils goes to a FWBR then through the NE2 acting as a clipper which I like and  this charges a capacitor. I believe you said you have also tied the output cap to the power supply which I am going to guess is in parallel with the power supply limiting the input...nice. As this would be a precursor to our input/output tied to a single capacitor. Words can be powerful things and I was listening to your words, more so how you said them... the human voice is the window to our soul. I listen to everyone given the chance.


In any case, you seem to have clipped the high voltage end of the inductive discharge from the coils which we can assume is near equal yet opposite to the input leaving the difference between the input/output in your capacitor. The question is ... where do you go from here?. The real question is where do you find the impetus which changes this equation and I believe you already know your capacitor is losing energy. Been there done that and sometimes it is not so much the scenery we may pass but knowing were moving in the right direction which matters and our input/output capacitor tells no lies.


Do you know what I thought was interesting about your video?... your hands and your finger nails. If you want to know where a man has been and his conviction to getting shit done you look at his hands. There are those that pretend to work for a living and there are those that do and not unlike our capacitor our hands tell no lies.


All in all I like your video even if I'm going to kick your ass but that does not mean we cannot be friends. Competition is good so long as we are moving in the right direction and this direction benefits others.




AC

Kick my ass hey lol
You do know that the video is just the very first run-dont you?
I havnt even begun with the circuit yet.

The cap is in the PSU in that run.
The neon lights when the reed switch opens during the generating part of the cycle,not during the motoring part of the cycle. This means that the energy used to light the neon,could also be sent back to the source. But even now,with this simplest of circuits,we are below the 1mA current draw mark.
Placing the scope across the CVR tells the true story of what is happening,and the description i gave at the start of the video is spot on. The biggest problem in that first run, is the PSU limits the voltage as well,to the selected voltage.

Anyway,looking forward to seeing your progress video.
Oh-and i have no problem with you kicking my ass in a pulse motor buildoff AC-something Erfinder could never do.
But as they say-dont count your chickens before they hatch. Lol


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 01:16:50 PM

We aren't even on the same planet.  , you haven't demonstrated anything worthy of my time.

Lol
And what have you demonstrated ?
Thats right-nothing but rubbish--your stepper motor video was outdated over 80 years ago.
Most of the circuit you showed is not needed--in fact,everything you have shown is as old as the hills.

I am surprised that you really are this far behind,and you have not yet worked out how things really work.
The fact that you shun measuring equipment,will only add to the inabilities you have now.

Quote
I piss on your challenge

Of course you do--you are a true JB fan,and member of the circus,where when asked to qualify your claim's,you run for the hills.
So happy to open your unqualified mouth at everything i do,but not once have you shown anything better-and you never will.

Not long ago,a member questioned you regarding one of your statements,and you said he was not qualified to question your work,when in actual fact,looking at everything you have shown,it is clear that it is you that is not even close to being qualified--and so it is you that is not qualified to make idiotic comments about what i do,as it is clear you have no idea what you are doing--your latest video proved that beyond doubt.

The fact that you have no idea as to what was actually happening in JBs video you posted,is another clear indication that your qualification level is very low.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 01:39:21 PM

Demonstrate something worth a damn, and maybe I'll consider your proposal.  You have no idea what JB has, you pride yourself in thinking you do, but you don't. What you think of me and my abilities matters not.  Don't take much to run circles around you.

Another claim,but like the JB crew,you will never back it up.

In stead of insulting people,your time would be better spent learning.

I dont know what JB has?--well i know what he dose not have,and that is a self runner that he and the clown crew always claim to have.
Feel free to prove me wrong.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 15, 2016, 02:00:45 PM
http://www.energeticforum.com/292680-post1373.html combine with many stages combine with the simplified circuit I posted
https%3A%2F%2Feasyeda.com%2Fforest%2FRecovery-cQKEWdvN5[/size][size=78%]ect[/size]
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 02:57:17 PM
Forgot....you don't have a self runner either, prove that wrong....

So challenge me  ;),and lets see what i have,and lets see what you have.

Im calling your bluff--challenge me,and we will see who has what.

But like a true JB sheeple,you will run and hide.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 15, 2016, 03:10:36 PM

.... 


   

Quote
Not here to back up anything for Brad

You have nothing to back up.

Quote
.not intersted in what you think I should be doing with my time.  That shit you are suggesting one learn, been there, what I am after is not found there.

What you are after ,is fairy dust--which is about as much as you have shown.

Quote
You are the definition of hypocrite, it's ok for you to insult but get all offended when your work is called crap.

You should go back a few pages,and see who started with the insult's.
What you think of my work means nothing to me,as you simply do not know what you are looking at.
Examples-
1-Jim's dynaflux generator--worst generator i have ever seen,but you think it's great.
2- You not understanding as to why JBs pulse motor's current dropped when he inserted the steel tube into the coil--basic stuff that went over your head. Once again,you think it is something wonderful,but it is really nothing out of the ordinary.
3-Your stepper motor video. Once again you think you are showing something wonderful,but once again-nothing out of the ordinary,and has been done for the past 80 years.-->you finally discovered coil shorting  ;)

Quote
You don't know what JB has, you base your opinion on what you have been shown, you don't have what it takes to see beyond the obvious.  Those folk don't care what tinman thinks he knows.

Tinman (like many others here),knows that JB has nothing special,and your full of crap.

You know,i have read every one of there !books of secrets!,and guess what--there isnt one secret in them lol,and even then,they got half the crap wrong.

Why dont you tell us all about the famous !1 ohm test!,and i will show you where they screwed up there as well.

So far,you have shown machines that consume much more power than they deliver,and yet,here you are,on a thread,that is driving toward a more efficient generator--and yet you continue to show power hungry heaters.

It has become obvious in this thread,that the reason you never give anyone a straight answer,is because you have no clue your self. ;)

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2016, 04:50:14 PM
http://www.energeticforum.com/292680-post1373.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/292680-post1373.html) combine with many stages combine with the simplified circuit I posted
https%3A%2F%2Feasyeda.com%2Fforest%2FRecovery-cQKEWdvN5[/size][size=78%]ect[/size]


Finally!!! Thanks Forest, incidentally the second link didn't work for me


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2016, 04:52:47 PM
You have nothing to back up.

What you are after ,is fairy dust--which is about as much as you have shown.

You should go back a few pages,and see who started with the insult's.
What you think of my work means nothing to me,as you simply do not know what you are looking at.

It has become obvious in this thread,that the reason you never give anyone a straight answer,is because you have no clue your self. ;)

Brad


Brad, time for you and erfinder to stop this crap and get on with the show...OK?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 15, 2016, 06:48:23 PM

How you view things is how you view things.  What you can do at the end of the day is what matters to most.  There is purpose behind my suggestions and recommendations.  I have done the work, I see what I want, and the path which must be taken to get it.  This is my motivation for making suggestions.  In recognizing that I wasn't seeing what was there, and allowing the situation and circumstance be my guide, I was corrected.  Now I am in the position to do something with that which is being transferred and stored while it's being transferred and stored, and recover at the same time.  So, the question is, if recovery is 100 percent.....that which was intercepted during the transfer and storage process is surplus. There's no limit to the amount which can be intercepted......comprehend what was just stated, and when it really hits you....shit yourself...I did (figuratively).


I am not looking for a solution, not intersted in what anyone else thinks they have or suggests.  I have found what I am looking for and am sharing it to the best of my ability with those who have the capacity to comprehend and speak bullshit.


Regards


Thank you Erfinder.  I'm listening.  Been looking into Murray for a minute now and hold his work in high regard.  I'm not done building....


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 15, 2016, 11:33:37 PM
Hey ERfinder

Just wondered what you thought of Romeros Muller dynamo that he had shown self running. I still have tendency to believe it worked.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 15, 2016, 11:43:15 PM
snip 

I offer a mosaic, to those who care little for what I suggest, what I offer reads confused, I assure you it is not.  You ask how the coils are connected, this is a question you should ask yourself.  Were I to tell you how the coils are connected, your next move would be to set something up, for what purpose?  When the purpose is known, and tests fail to deliver that which is assumed, as nothing was given, and nothing was intuited, what would be your next move? 

Think about your own question, what motivated you asking exactly what you asked.  I don't build machines with core material, I have read, and have no reason to disagree with it, that Nature doesn't fill its holes.

Regards


OK, seeing Mario's three coil bank prompts me to take a guess...


They are wired in series with the center coil being 180 degrees out of phase. in other words the center coil is a bucking coil. This provides a path for the counter EMF. So you lose one third of the field strength for an enhanced  over all current flow.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 01:21:14 AM



 


 


 

Quote
you will be remembered as being the c_unt who did everything she could to keep them from progressing.

Your foul mouth shows your true caricature--you are a sad individual.

Quote
Coil shorting.....no dumb ass....that's not what I showed.  If I wanted to show you coil shorting, I would have shown you coil shorting.  You are screaming coil shorting because you're stupid, blind, and think you got it all figured out, you don't.

A big JB follower,and yet has no idea as to how the simple SSG circuit works--you dont even know what you show in your own work. You do know it is just a blocking oscillator--dont you  :o,and you do know what the word !blocking! stands for--dont you?.

Quote
Like I said....show something worthy of anyone's time.  I am loving how you are getting your ass handed to you by a dead guy....and you think it's a good thing....idiot.

The idiot here,is the one who thinks he follows the work of said !dead guy!,but couldnt be further from it if he tried.

Quote
Fuck a more efficient generator.  People who want a more efficient generator and think you, a guy who refuses to use the damn free spell checker, has what it takes to give them what they are too lazy or too stupid to get for themselves, are even more stupid than you.  You can buy highly efficient generators already, designed and constructed by folk who are light years ahead of your wannabe ass.  You don't even ask people what they are looking for.  You don't let them think for themselves.  You tell them what they should think, and feel justified because your scope shots are clean and your meters true.  If they want what you want, by all means give it to them.  My thinking is they want what you can't give them.  My thinking is they want what they were promised, but haven't necessarily earned.

If you actually used things like scopes and meter's,you wouldnt be so lost in your own work--like your stepper motor disaster.
What do you think happens when the transistor conduct's in your stepper motor demo?--yes,thats right,the coils inside the stepper motor are shorted--a continual loop now exist. And what dose this do when that short exists?--yes,a magnetic field builds around the shorted coils as the current builds within those coils-thanks to the the magnetic fields of the rotor. Now,what happens when the transistor becomes open?--yes,thats right,the existing magnetic fields around the coil's collapses back around those coils at a high rate of speed,and a large inductive spike is produced by those coil's,and your NE2 lights,due to the fact that the resistance of the once shorted circuit just went sky high,and so did the !now! inverted voltage.

Quote
I offer speculation on a means through which power can be amplified.

You offer nothing but foul language ,and fairy dust.
You cower when you are challenged,and run like the wind when asked to produce anything to back up your claim's. You cannot amplify power,it needs to already exist within the machine.
The only untapped power that exist within these machine's,is held within the PMs,and when you understand this,you will stop presenting bathroom heater's that convert wanted power into waste heat--such as Jims dynaflux generator dose.

Quote
  (My first real claim....) Will l substantiate it.....nope.  Do I care if folk stick around and figure it out.....nope. Will I be happy for those who figure it out, hell yeah.  If and when they figure it out,

Like all JB fan's,the reason you will not substantiate anything,is because you cant--not because you dont want to.

 
Quote
you, a guy who refuses to use the damn free spell checker

And yet you have no problem reading what i write ;)
Perhaps you should refrain from such comments,until your own grammar is up to scratch. ;D
And you should get some one to wash out that filthy mouth of yours,or hop on a plane,and come call me that to my face,instead of being a keyboard coward.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 16, 2016, 03:15:41 AM
Your foul mouth shows your true caricature--you are a sad individual.
snip
And yet you have no problem reading what i write ;)
Perhaps you should refrain from such comments,until your own grammar is up to scratch. ;D
And you should get some one to wash out that filthy mouth of yours,or hop on a plane,and come call me that to my face,instead of being a keyboard coward.


Brad


"I'd be tender

I'd be gentle

And awful sentimental... if I only had a heart"


Gee, I am sure looking towards that day, hope it is soon


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: forest on September 16, 2016, 08:07:17 AM
Instead of nonsensical talk watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30h6hrxACdA
When you have some stages summed into one capacitor for example you can take some power to input to create self-resonant condition.Theoreticaly of course.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 11:38:09 AM

"I'd be tender

I'd be gentle

And awful sentimental... if I only had a heart"


Gee, I am sure looking towards that day, hope it is soon


Ron

And so you condone Erfinders language,and the fact that every video i post here on my work,Erfinder is the first to put my work down-even though he has no idea as to what he is talking about.

Sorry Ron,but i do not stand idle,and let foul mouthed uninformed people like Erfinder talk about me or my work like he dose--simple as that--although you will see that i do not use such language as he dose.

I have a heart Ron,and those that treat me well get the same in return--and some.
Erfinder will get back what he give's-minus the foul language--and thats the bottom line.

Ask your self this--what have you learned from Erfinder so far?
Do you know what was happening in his video with the stepper motor lighting the NE2 ?

Anyway,what you do is up to you,and has nothing to do with me at all. I am only here to show those interested,my work and results from that work.
But i am not here to have some unqualified foul mouthed fairy dust chaser such as Erfinder make such comments toward me,and just let it slide--not going to happen.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ramset on September 16, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
Ron
I'm not sure if  lack of Empathy is a prerequisite for membership here [gotta check the "big book"]..
But I thought that was funny [if I only had a heart] ...
your funny quote was from the scarecrow in the wizard of OZ [for the "kids" Under 70 ]

sometimes I think we're fortunate that there are Continents and oceans between us ..
"two men enter one man leaves" may work in areas with overpopulation issues and limited resources.

not so good here with this cause and our needs on this planet.

Just one mans opinion.

Chet K
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 01:35:22 PM
You already stated that you think this is coil shorting idiot....I told you, if I wanted to demonstrate coil shorting I would have demonstrated coil shorting. 

I dropped a few lame videos, all of which contain gems for those who want them.  You grab the stepper motor video and ask folk if they see what "you" see.  LOL!  Why should they see what you see, why should they even be interested in what you think about my video?  You don't know where this is going.....call it a piece of shit, garbage, fairy dust production, and move on.  If and when they get it, the name tinman will be synonymous with the dumb ass who didn't get it because he doesn't have a brain.

Your problem is you truly believe that your perspective is the perspective, sorry dick, it's not.  I reserve the foul language for your kind, so far, there are only two of you.  Your work is garbage, this is what you say of others, they aren't here to speak for themselves, I take it upon myself to shit on your work in their absence. 

No one  here is qualified, least of all you.  You will sit there and take the insults because you don't have a choice, I will sit here and take the insults because I don't have a choice.  It's a stalemate.  Thing is, I really don't give a shit about your opinion, I respond in kind because I can and not because my feelings are hurt.  You can say what you want about what I present, in the end, as I told you before, you will be the one looking like a complete fuckup when the time comes.

Your kind never ask why those you call morons grouped together with a guy you call a rookie...to add insult to your piss poor situation, your plagiarist companion is a cheerleader for one of those "rubbish" disseminators....LOL.  What could motivate all those individuals to side with one you hate, one of the reasons for your hate being, because he handed you your ass when you showed your ass when you were a guest in his home.  You don't know!   You will never know!  Someone stick a fork in this asshat, he's done.

In conclusion, the best that you say you have is a machine that you claim you can't produce, LOL.....LOSER.   

Anyway.....it's been fun the tinman, but it's time to turn my attention back to that which you are too ignorant to comprehend.

Short and sweet
You used the Bedini SSG circuit.
You trigger the transistor with one set of coil's,which shorts the other set of coils in the stepper motor.
You pride your self in being the Bedini guru on his circuit,but are oblivious to that circuit being nothing more than a mechanical blocking oscillator--thats all it is.
This rubbish about radiant energy being drawn in,and being the cause of the !claimed! OU,is just rubbish. There is nothing fantastic about inductive kickback-or flyback as some call it,and that is all the SSG circuit is,and all it provides.

As i stated,your time would be better spent learning,and separating facts from fairy dust.
Should i put together that very circuit with the stepper motor you showed,and by way of using the scope,show you that you just demonstrated nothing more than a coil shorting circuit--a blocking oscillator ?.
No,you wouldnt like that,as you shun the use of measuring equipment that provides valuable information,and shows exactly what you were doing in that video demonstration--just as all the rookie/JB army dose.

You think you are here to teach,but it is beginning to look like you are here to distract/divert those here from learning fact's.
It is not me that qualifies the science behind the mechanism,it is science it self that did this many years ago.

What you think of my work really means nothing to me,as you clearly are not qualified to even look at it,let alone comment on it.
Everything you have posted that you think is wonderful,i have destroyed by providing facts.
Science has it right cupcake--you dont get to change that for fairy dust.

So,you keep making idiotic comments toward my work,and i will keep exposing you for who you are.
So suck it up princess,thats the way it is.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 16, 2016, 05:00:07 PM
Ron
I'm not sure if  lack of Empathy is a prerequisite for membership here [gotta check the "big book"]..
But I thought that was funny [if I only had a heart] ...
your funny quote was from the scarecrow in the wizard of OZ [for the "kids" Under 70 ]

sometimes I think we're fortunate that there are Continents and oceans between us ..
"two men enter one man leaves" may work in areas with overpopulation issues and limited resources.

not so good here with this cause and our needs on this planet.

Just one mans opinion.

Chet K


Glad you saw the humour Chet!  Too bad tinman missed the point. Now he thinks I am defending erfinder? Well of course I am. Does that make me an enemy?  I am equally sick of both of them and their inflammatory posts.

But it is you tinman that has the power to stop this crap show. Grow a thicker skin or what ever it takes.

For both of you: "Never argue with a fool, onlookers won't be able to tell the difference"

Ron
 


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 05:30:41 PM

 I am loving how you are getting your ass handed to you by a dead guy....and you think it's a good thing....idiot.


I have to ask--to what dead guy are you referring to ?


brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 05:33:12 PM



What I find curious is the main person screaming "rubbish" has a device that looks like a cheap copy of Murray tech.....go figure?


Regards

I have nothing that resembles anything Murray designed,except his !big waste of time! dynaflusted! generator.

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on September 16, 2016, 05:52:07 PM
BTW Erfinder, three coils....


You need three yes.   One coil, the centered one performs the intended action (or impedance match).  The other two coils that surround the center coil maintains balance of the symmetrical "simultaneous sequential" reaction and without them, you have uncontrolled signal/wave reflection.

Funny the things you begin to see when you know what to look for.    :)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 16, 2016, 06:37:51 PM

Why do you have to ask?  I have made this clear several times.  One would think that you would at the very least try and understand what's being suggested.  I have considered everything you have ever posted, I don't agree with 99 percent of it, I don't have to, and for the same reasons that you don't agree with anything I say.  The thing to recognize is that we don't have to agree on anything while considering suggestions.  What you suggest doesn't work for what I want, period.  You do good work, I have said this in the past, however, voice the opinion that your direction will not get me where I want to be.  Folk don't want what you are offering, but you are really convincing.  I suggest that power cannot be amplified, and the your reaction.....you tell me what you can't know, not even considering why or how such a claim can be made.  You closed the book, your mind's made up, makes me wonder what you are really doing here, not that that's an issue, you're here, and we are at eachothers throats. 


The dead guy is Lenz.....he keeps handing you your ass, and will continue to hand it to you till you check yourself.  Your response will be to the effect that I'm stupid, and you are doing the right thing, in accordance with blah blah blah....been there tinman, done that.  There's more, way more.  Open your mind, and if you cannot, don't stand in the way of those who can.


For the same reasons that current drops Brad, it can RISE!  Consider that I know what I am talking about, or continue to assume that I don't, matters little to me.  Your perspective generates buttkiss on my bench, my perspective.....just know I am here because my bench indicates that it's time for me to be here.

It would seem you must have missed my post some time back.
I do not try to defeat lenz. In fact,i try to do the very opposite to that of the thread title.
I try to increase lenz as much as i can,to the point where it exceeds that which created it in the first place.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 16, 2016, 08:13:55 PM
The problem I see with Lenz Law seems obvious on the surface.


Law: "Law is a system of rules that are enforced through social institutions to govern behavior".


Think about that... a system of rules to govern behavior... to govern someones behavior and it is very effective isn't it?.


Lenz Law is simply a statement of the obvious concerning certain phenomena and there is no real genius to be found in it... none. No more genius than declaring that which is below me is the Earth and that above me the universe at large. However as we see above the objective of any law is to govern the behavior concerning the rule. As if to say I should behave like a good little boy and not question these things or I may get in trouble. Mean while science tells us we should question everything which leads to a great deal of confusion.


You see it is not so much the Law but the general behavior which is implied concerning this term Law which I find a little disturbing. It has literally nothing to do with the total energy present in any given system and only describes a discrete phenomena within it. Yet many have taken it upon themselves to enforce this Law as if it has universal application to everything. No, I am sorry it does not apply in a universal context and it is only a statement of what should have been obvious to anyone skilled in the art. As if to say if you continue to do this and only this then this is what you can expect to happen.


Myself I'm a bit of a trouble maker and what some old fart happened to believe 100 years ago really doesn't concern me, our future does. Science is not a cult nor is it a pissing contest between juveniles... it is the pursuit of truth.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 16, 2016, 09:59:13 PM
It would seem you must have missed my post some time back.
I do not try to defeat lenz. In fact,i try to do the very opposite to that of the thread title.
I try to increase lenz as much as i can,to the point where it exceeds that which created it in the first place.


Brad



If anyone here is the slightest bit serious about "Free Energy" you should study exactly what Brad  has just said!!!

If you choose to not take this seriously, then you simply do not understand the Science and are wasting everyones time as well as your own!!!

Lenz's is a Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field is Current, Lenz's Law is Magnetic Field Opposing Magnetic Field - If you dont get this, you need to do your homework!!!

You need to Super Charge Electromagnetic Induction not kill it!!! Use a configuration or a geometry that uses Electromagnetic Induction to Assist in the Induction Process.

Electromagnetic Induction is Energy over Time, Joules per second, without Electromagnetic Induction you dont have anything!

Its the Output to Input Reflection that must be reduced!

@Ron - Did you finish off the WardForce Generator? Did you get any experiments done on it?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: Erfinder has thieved his three coil idea as he has with all his work!!!


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 17, 2016, 01:08:16 AM

@Ron - Did you finish off the WardForce Generator? Did you get any experiments done on it?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Still a work in progress Chris. Just today I reached the point of a first test. I had built it thinking to try Butch's "no gap" model but found out that the flux never went to the top and bottom bars, it was happy just to circulate in the core. So I have chopped it open as you can see by the couple of band aids holding it together now.


The rotor is 3 inches dia., overall width about 7 inches, The basic rotor is a piece of 1 inch key steel with two stacks of 5, 1/8th by 1 inch neos with cast iron shoes


The left core drops of cleanly when I rotate the rotor. There are two cogging spots each side. So will wind some coils for it next week.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 06:43:25 AM

Still a work in progress Chris. Just today I reached the point of a first test. I had built it thinking to try Butch's "no gap" model but found out that the flux never went to the top and bottom bars, it was happy just to circulate in the core. So I have chopped it open as you can see by the couple of band aids holding it together now.


The rotor is 3 inches dia., overall width about 7 inches, The basic rotor is a piece of 1 inch key steel with two stacks of 5, 1/8th by 1 inch neos with cast iron shoes


The left core drops of cleanly when I rotate the rotor. There are two cogging spots each side. So will wind some coils for it next week.


Ron



Very Nice Ron!!!

Lots of turns on your Coil, like the shaded Pole Motor, and the MMF will be High, this the Magnetic Field. Start with one Coil at a time, then try 2 later on.

I learnt a lot from my build, no where near as good as yours!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 10:51:14 AM

The few I have allowed a seat at my bench, have seen what's possible.  At the top of the list of useless demos is the one thing that you have yet to demonstrate, namely, self assisted oscillation (a name you picked for your lost cause demo, a demo which eats power, your buddy if he were honest with you would call that rig a heater........).  The concept in and of itself isn't well thought out, and this is reflected in the piss poor demonstration you made of the same.  No oscillations, no wave transformations, nada. My bench on the other hand, I have no problem demonstrating these things.  You are the copy paste junky, I feel you are preparing the ground for stealing from me....(not going to happen) if you read back through the posts, you may find one where I say the three coils are one.  Your pic reveals your ignorance, stop grabbing at straws and do the damn work.



Keep up your Oompa Loompa Science Erfinder, one day you will do full circle and realise!


A question for you, oh self proclaimed Oompa Loompa Scientist - What exactly, in 20 words or less, defines a Coils Inductance?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 11:04:08 AM

Thanks copy paste.  An attempt at an insult followed by what you consider a serious question, and you expect me to answer....wasting your time dear....



Hey, you got the terms, but all of us know, you dont know, what they mean, you have your own definitions!!!

Youre talking through a Hole in the lower end again!!!

It is the most simple concepts that are the most important here, and you aint got em!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 11:09:12 AM

I'm blushing.....



Same colour as your Parallel Resonant Porridge Maker?

While you’re very quick to bad mouth others, most of the time, you have no idea what’s even being said, yet you bad mouth them anyway!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 11:23:09 AM

check the record sweety....I only bad mouth two of you.  Again you assume to know what I know...you don't....I don't give you enough to go on...LOL....I'm enjoying that you are taking the time to examine statements made by one you have no respect for, it matters not why you do so, fact is, you are doing it, there's hope for you yet....LOL



Youre a professional, talk it up, get it wrong, deny it, change the topic.

I have seen your kind for a long time, I would not like to be a Newbe starting off with your kind around, the end goal would be impossible to reach!

What is Electricity?

What is Electromagnetic Induction? AKA: Induction...

What is, exactly, the Inductance of a Coil? an Inductor?

Why is there a Time Constant to Charge an Inductor?

Is the Magnetic Field of a Current Carrying Inductor a Property of the Inductor?

All the most basic concepts you know nothing about and have never bothered to look at!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 17, 2016, 11:34:45 AM
Wow
The skies are clear.
It's going to be a great night for UFO watching  :D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 12:15:43 PM

you say something?  I dozed off...your posts have that effect on me....



Science has no effect on you!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 12:55:45 PM

The sad thing is you actually listen to the resident Lenz Law guru wannabe.  Sad, but your choice, and sir, I do not stand in your way.  The device you have constructed is one of the nicest out there, and I am referring to your Teal machine, I have no comment on the device depicted above.  Copy paste junky is a lost cause, not your problem, had he done his homework on Mr. Ward, he would have suggested a much simpler build, one in which LOW INDUCTANCE LOW RESISTANCE coils were used. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiEMKic_jx4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiEMKic_jx4)


I show the exact same effect using low inductance low resistance coils operating at low frequency, using coils which have cores, but no common magnetic circuit between them, and advance from here showing the same effect in an air core system.......continue to listen to chris, he is going to lead you to exactly what you don't want.  You demonstrated what you are capable of, I gave you a silent standing applaud when you brought out your Teal replication.  You want a real generator, copy paste junky doesn't know how to build one.  You will understand what I'm saying when that design you are working on as per his suggestion fails.


Regards


There you go Erfinder, I challenge you to your stupid Idiot reply to Ron, and you turn to Jelly!!!

You know what, just like your welcome to your opinions and posts, we all are!

Your stupidity, and lack of, the most basic Science, and then your critique of others, that, when challanged, very clearly makes you turn to jelly, is just deplorable!

Pull your head in Erfinder. You very clearly know absolutely nothing about Electromagnetic Induction, and choose to stay dumb on the subject!

By the way, how is your 50Hz 10KVA Air Core transformer going?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 01:13:05 PM



So, Oompa Loompa Scientist - What would a M-6 Laminated Steel Core do to help your Air Cored Transformer from Electrical Breakdown? Or Burnout?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Energy-Ingenuity on September 17, 2016, 01:30:55 PM
Chris Sykes,

One thing that will help, Wardforce is controlled by speed (frequency), and the Eddie currents do not exists with the new way to cause induction.  I tell you how to build an AC, DC, 3 phase generator, transformer, motor that is one device, which is patent pending.  Just to be clear, energy from Magnets is only one very small benefit, to just this ONE discovery, that I am sharing now.  Energy from Magnets is nothing!  This webpage has YouTube videos that are demonstrating "Space Travel" or "Tractor Beam" as called by some. http://www.energy-ingenuity.com/id51.html

I hope to share more of my discoveries when funds allow it.  http://www.energy-ingenuity.com/id43.html This discovery shows a change demonstrated in a thermometer.  Would that be "climate change"?  A change in the temperature demonstrated by a change in a thermometer.

If you build it, you will KNOW, how it works.  This is why I have published my book "Wardforce", which is the peer-reviewed paper telling all that is needed for you to build two devices.  I built them without the list of materials and where to get them, drawings, pictures, instructions how to operate, etc.  They were finished in less than a day and I spent less than $200.  YOU and ANYONE can with all the information that I give in my book http://www.wardforce.com .
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 01:42:23 PM

I welcome your opinions, and challenges, I don't have to accept either, and don't, same as you.  Strange behaviour you are demonstrating, lying....  Cheap shots, bad humor....that's you and I get it, but lying....damn....I didn't think you had that in you. 


If you think for a second that truth is limited to your perspective, or those whom you claim to represent, I am sorry but you are sadly mistaken, and no amount of "information" you copy, paste from the internet and present as support for your case will never make you right.


Here's an untrue statement from me, since we are obviously at this point in our relationship now....your moms a oompa lumpa c_ock sucker.   :-*   I'm your father...rebel....



You really would have upset me if you had come back with something smart!!!

I don’t lie, its all here, readers can look it up.

So you can run your Oompa Loompa Parallel Resonant Porridge Maker, the answer is: Na, changed my mind…


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 17, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 17, 2016, 01:57:15 PM
76 metric tons
574KPH
Kinetic energy value=965517680 joules  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE4A0nPjyqQ
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 17, 2016, 02:05:52 PM
Well since it seems that there is only to be rubbish posted here on this thread,here is some more.

See how poor old Petey struggles to explain his own solenoid motor,and gets it drastically wrong.
Another bathroom heater on display by the Macrame Army

The resistance of the coil stays the same--LOL
These guys really need to learn about changing coil inductance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cGg0NK4mjU


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 17, 2016, 05:26:07 PM

The sad thing is you actually listen to the resident Lenz Law guru wannabe.  Sad, but your choice, and sir, I do not stand in your way.  The device you have constructed is one of the nicest out there, and I am referring to your Teal machine, I have no comment on the device depicted above.  Copy paste junky is a lost cause, not your problem, had he done his homework on Mr. Ward, he would have suggested a much simpler build, one in which LOW INDUCTANCE LOW RESISTANCE coils were used. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiEMKic_jx4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiEMKic_jx4)


I show the exact same effect using low inductance low resistance coils operating at low frequency, using coils which have cores, but no common magnetic circuit between them, and advance from here showing the same effect in an air core system.......continue to listen to chris, he is going to lead you to exactly what you don't want.  You demonstrated what you are capable of, I gave you a silent standing applaud when you brought out your Teal replication.  You want a real generator, copy paste junky doesn't know how to build one.  You will understand what I'm saying when that design you are working on as per his suggestion fails.


Regards


Thanks for your comment on my Teal build, I am in shock!


I had seen the "take down" vid but as with most things I didn't have and couldn't find locally any decent sized laminations.
As our dish washer had bit the dust the motor laminations became the basic start for the core. Then an old ballast transformer for $10 from the recycle bandits gave me the long top and bottom pieces.


Working with laminations can be awkward at times, they must be clamped tightly but even at that, machining raises little burrs, the secret is to then grind a few thousands out to get rid of these "shorts" as H would call them.


Here my trusty old Black and Decker router is being pressed into service as a tool post grinder...


Ron









Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 17, 2016, 05:43:43 PM


Very Nice Ron!!!

Lots of turns on your Coil, like the shaded Pole Motor, and the MMF will be High, this the Magnetic Field. Start with one Coil at a time, then try 2 later on.

I learnt a lot from my build, no where near as good as yours!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris! We will see how it performs yet, eh? These things, so simple, do take time to construct.


In discussing the concept with Gyula, I had asked him what he thought of laminations, low speed and heavy gauge wire for the coils... so this is what I am working towards as a first build.  But today is shot for projects as we are off up island for my bro-in-law's birthday and Sunday is my day of rest, soooo, next week I can start the coils...


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 17, 2016, 05:50:40 PM
Well since it seems that there is only to be rubbish posted here on this thread,here is some more.

See how poor old Petey struggles to explain his own solenoid motor,and gets it drastically wrong.
Another bathroom heater on display by the Macrame Army

The resistance of the coil stays the same--LOL
These guys really need to learn about changing coil inductance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cGg0NK4mjU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cGg0NK4mjU)


Brad


The macrome army is gradually learning, See P L is sneaking up on 'how to build a solenoid'.


A real one should look like this...(below)


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 10:46:52 PM

Thanks Chris! We will see how it performs yet, eh? These things, so simple, do take time to construct.


In discussing the concept with Gyula, I had asked him what he thought of laminations, low speed and heavy gauge wire for the coils... so this is what I am working towards as a first build.  But today is shot for projects as we are off up island for my bro-in-law's birthday and Sunday is my day of rest, soooo, next week I can start the coils...


Ron



The Magnetic Flux Interactions in the WardForce Generator are very interesting to study Ron. Where one Flux is Relative to the Other! Changing the load can make a difference!

There is a lot to learn in this device, like I said, I found the WardForce Generator a great learning tool!

Perhaps, the most usefull is the Electromagnetic Induction component! Engineering the best output result for the most efficent Shaft Torque.

Honestly, the takedown video is not along the same lines as the orriginal device, this is misssing the small Air Gap, which is important!

The Video posted, is not the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiEMKic_jx4


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 17, 2016, 11:42:46 PM

Well since it seems that there is only to be rubbish posted here on this thread,here is some more.

See how poor old Petey struggles to explain his own solenoid motor,and gets it drastically wrong.
Another bathroom heater on display by the Macrame Army

The resistance of the coil stays the same--LOL
These guys really need to learn about changing coil inductance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cGg0NK4mjU


Brad

The macrome army is gradually learning, See P L is sneaking up on 'how to build a solenoid'.


A real one should look like this...(below)


Ron




This is mostly right, but why, well many will know the answer, but many wont!

Inductance has several factors that play a role in the "Value" of the Inductance. One factor is Core Material, this changes the "Value" of the Permeability (µ). This in turn changes the Coils Impedance (Z) = R + j X which has a "Value" measured in Ohms (Ω)

Where:
   R = DC Resistance (R)
   J = Indicating the Imaginary Unit
   X = Reactance (X)

And the + can be a Plus (+) or a Negative sign (-) indicating the Lead, Capacitive (XC) or Inductive (XL) of the Reactance (X).

So, PL’s Motor is at maximum Inductance (L) at Top Dead Centre (TDC) and as the Plunger falls the Inductance (L) will drop – All other above mentioned “Values” will change along with these changes.

For Example, why is it so, that if a Transformer Core Saturates, Electrical Breakdown or Burnout will occur? Because the Inductance (L) is mostly lost, thus the Reactive (X) components are lost, and the Coil is a straight DC Resistance (R)!

So PL’s Motor does see total change in Impedance, but the cycle, On / Off periods, will have a changing Reactance (X), but the DC Resistance (R) will stay the same. So one may see:  Z = 12 + j10 at the start of the Cycle, then see:  Z = 12 +j80 at top dead centre. This is a total “Value” measured in Ohms(Ω)

This is why Erfinders Air Cored 50Hz 10KVA Transformer will never work!!! It will have to be made the size of the Earth to make the Inductance (L) and thus the Reactance (X) high enough! I am exaggerating somewhat but you get the idea.

Being that the Magnetic Field (B), due to the flow of Cirrent (I) does change the Inductance (L) thus the Reactance (X) it would be interesting to Graph this and see the data. The Changes may not be as great as one may think. Or it may be more?


Ron you’re right, a closed Keeper is much more efficient, PL did show this in one of his videos. The Murakami Army seems to be losing all its momentum! A struggle for new blood is occurring! Have a nice time at the party!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 12:31:43 AM



A Coil's Inductance can vary greatly with the smallest change in Magnetic Field, so assuming the other parameters stay the same in a dynamically changing System is not a very safe bet!

The parametric Oscillator is dependent on the Inductance changing in the right direction during operation of the System. See Below Image:

Like I said, the Core Saturation reduces Inductance. The Coil is considered to become an Air Core at Saturation. So, a System that is the reverse, where the Inductance goes up as a result of the operation is more in line with a Parametric Oscillator.

The Inductance of a Coil is defined as:
Quote

the property of an electric conductor or circuit that causes an electromotive force to be generated by a change in the current flowing.


A change in Current is the same as the change in the Magnetic Field! EMF is what we are looking to maximise and capitalise on.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 03:18:07 AM
The macrome army is gradually learning, See P L is sneaking up on 'how to build a solenoid'.


A real one should look like this...(below)


Ron





This is mostly right, but why, well many will know the answer, but many wont!

Inductance has several factors that play a role in the "Value" of the Inductance. One factor is Core Material, this changes the "Value" of the Permeability (µ). This in turn changes the Coils Impedance (Z) = R + j X which has a "Value" measured in Ohms (Ω)

Where:
   R = DC Resistance (R)
   J = Indicating the Imaginary Unit
   X = Reactance (X)

And the + can be a Plus (+) or a Negative sign (-) indicating the Lead, Capacitive (XC) or Inductive (XL) of the Reactance (X).

So, PL’s Motor is at maximum Inductance (L) at Top Dead Centre (TDC) and as the Plunger falls the Inductance (L) will drop – All other above mentioned “Values” will change along with these changes.

For Example, why is it so, that if a Transformer Core Saturates, Electrical Breakdown or Burnout will occur? Because the Inductance (L) is mostly lost, thus the Reactive (X) components are lost, and the Coil is a straight DC Resistance (R)!

So PL’s Motor does see total change in Impedance, but the cycle, On / Off periods, will have a changing Reactance (X), but the DC Resistance (R) will stay the same. So one may see:  Z = 12 + j10 at the start of the Cycle, then see:  Z = 12 +j80 at top dead centre. This is a total “Value” measured in Ohms(Ω)

This is why Erfinders Air Cored 50Hz 10KVA Transformer will never work!!! It will have to be made the size of the Earth to make the Inductance (L) and thus the Reactance (X) high enough! I am exaggerating somewhat but you get the idea.

Being that the Magnetic Field (B), due to the flow of Cirrent (I) does change the Inductance (L) thus the Reactance (X) it would be interesting to Graph this and see the data. The Changes may not be as great as one may think. Or it may be more?


Ron you’re right, a closed Keeper is much more efficient, PL did show this in one of his videos. The Murakami Army seems to be losing all its momentum! A struggle for new blood is occurring! Have a nice time at the party!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

As with all electromagnetic induction machines,i was referring to the resistance of current flow through the coil-impedance,caused by a change in inductance value.
Of course the stationary DC resistance remains the same,but what good is a stationary(not running) motor?.
When explaining a running motor as such as PL was !trying! to do,you should always be referring to the resistance to current flow,not the bloody rest state resistance of a coil of wire.

You can place all the keepers you like around the coil,to try and make it more efficient,but simply replacing that chunk of iron(the piston) with a PM will improve the efficiency of that solenoid motor 5x plus for the same P/in,and no keepers required around the coil--oh,and it will also deliver more electrical energy to the charge battery.

Once again,like JMs dynaflux generator,we see the macrame army bringing out the worst of the worst.
The books of secrets should be renamed to--how to make idiotic bathroom heaters.

These guys(the macrame army crew),try so hard to push motors that are not generator-such as the one PL just showed in that video. This thread title is about trying to defeat Lenz,when in actual fact,you should be trying to increase Lenz,trying to make a motor that is also a very efficient generator. I have shown just how much current a brushed DC motor draws when there is no self induced BackEMF--12 volts at over 15 amps,but when the BackEMF is present,it draws 12 volts at 300mA--and can now also do work.

Through replicating Luc's work(his latest DUT),we now have a way to see what the BackEMF value is--as the motor is running--on the fly,while increasing and decreasing the load on that motor.

Now that is useful--unlike that solenoid motor PL showed.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 03:32:27 AM
AC

How is that pulse motor coming along ?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 04:31:18 AM

As with all electromagnetic induction machines,i was referring to the resistance of current flow through the coil-impedance,caused by a change in inductance value.
Of course the stationary DC resistance remains the same,but what good is a stationary(not running) motor?.
When explaining a running motor as such as PL was !trying! to do,you should always be referring to the resistance to current flow,not the bloody rest state resistance of a coil of wire.




Brad, I think you have miss understood.

The Impedance (Z), is the Sum of the DC Resistance (R) + the Reactance (X), to Current (I) Flow, this includes the DC Resistance (R) and also the Reactive (X) Components! so we might see 102 Ohms of Impedance (Z) to the Current (I) - Which is 12 (DC Resistance (R)) + 80 (Reactance (X)) = 102 Ohme (Ω).

This is what regulates the Current Flow through a Coil of Wire, over Time (t).




You can place all the keepers you like around the coil,to try and make it more efficient,but simply replacing that chunk of iron(the piston) with a PM will improve the efficiency of that solenoid motor 5x plus for the same P/in,and no keepers required around the coil--oh,and it will also deliver more electrical energy to the charge battery.



Of course this is right, as with all "Generators" Faradays Law is solid. After all thats what the Fly Back, or Inductive Kick Back is, the time rate of change of the Magnetic Field.




Once again,like JMs dynaflux generator,we see the macrame army bringing out the worst of the worst.
The books of secrets should be renamed to--how to make idiotic bathroom heaters.

These guys(the macrame army crew),try so hard to push motors that are not generator-such as the one PL just showed in that video. This thread title is about trying to defeat Lenz,when in actual fact,you should be trying to increase Lenz,trying to make a motor that is also a very efficient generator. I have shown just how much current a brushed DC motor draws when there is no self induced BackEMF--12 volts at over 15 amps,but when the BackEMF is present,it draws 12 volts at 300mA--and can now also do work.



Yes, agreed, again, Lenz's Law is important! It is Energy in the Coil!!! Its Current with Potential, and yes we need to maximise this to the best of our abiity!!!

We dont want this to reflect directly back on our Input, however!!!

So, Defeating Lenz's Law is perhaps not the best term, thus the reason I bought forward the WardForce Generator. This machine shows how it is possible to redirect the Magnetic Field, so there is no direct reflection back on the Input, this enables the Rotor to Speed Up, and the higher the load, the faster the Rotor will spin. Not new I know, but as I said a good learning tool for those that want to learn. Its cheap and easy to build!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 18, 2016, 05:20:34 AM

snip
You can place all the keepers you like around the coil,to try and make it more efficient,but simply replacing that chunk of iron(the piston) with a PM will improve the efficiency of that solenoid motor 5x plus for the same P/in,and no keepers required around the coil--oh,and it will also deliver more electrical energy to the charge battery.

Brad


Ah yes, but then on each portion of the stroke you have a induced EMF, turning it into a generator and with it, all the associated generator problems. A plain steel plunger does not generate/induce on the return stroke. On the "power stroke" with a fixed center pin the plunger and fixed pin wish, very strongly, to unite and become the block wall. This is where the force is in a properly designed solenoid.


Mind you there is one experiment I have not tried yet and that is an external magnet, which seems to have a positive effect sometimes.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 05:23:26 AM


Brad, I think you have miss understood.



This is what regulates the Current Flow through a Coil of Wire, over Time (t).




Of course this is right, as with all "Generators" Faradays Law is solid. After all thats what the Fly Back, or Inductive Kick Back is, the time rate of change of the Magnetic Field.



Yes, agreed, again, Lenz's Law is important! It is Energy in the Coil!!! Its Current with Potential, and yes we need to maximise this to the best of our abiity!!!

We dont want this to reflect directly back on our Input, however!!!

So, Defeating Lenz's Law is perhaps not the best term, thus the reason I bought forward the WardForce Generator. This machine shows how it is possible to redirect the Magnetic Field, so there is no direct reflection back on the Input, this enables the Rotor to Speed Up, and the higher the load, the faster the Rotor will spin. Not new I know, but as I said a good learning tool for those that want to learn. Its cheap and easy to build!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Quote
The Impedance (Z), is the Sum of the DC Resistance (R) + the Reactance (X), to Current (I) Flow, this includes the DC Resistance (R) and also the Reactive (X) Components! so we might see 102 Ohms of Impedance (Z) to the Current (I) - Which is 12 (DC Resistance (R)) + 80 (Reactance (X)) = 102 Ohme (Ω).

And what happens when there is a change in reactance value ?
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 05:36:54 AM




Mind you there is one experiment I have not tried yet and that is an external magnet, which seems to have a positive effect sometimes.


Ron

Quote
Ah yes, but then on each portion of the stroke you have a induced EMF, turning it into a generator and with it, all the associated generator problems. A plain steel plunger does not generate/induce on the return stroke. On the "power stroke" with a fixed center pin the plunger and fixed pin wish, very strongly, to unite and become the block wall. This is where the force is in a properly designed solenoid.

Regardless of whether it is a steel piston,or a PM piston,it is still a generator when running,if not,what is charging the battery shown in the video?--yes,a generated current from the collapsing magnetic field. An inductor is a current source.
Second,as soon as current flows through the coil,the steel piston becomes a temporary magnet,that has an opposite field to that of the solenoid,if it did not,it would not be attracted to the field generated by the solenoid.

Quote
turning it into a generator and with it, all the associated generator problems

And this is where the thinking is wrong.
Problems arise when there is no generating action. When you reduce or eliminate BackEMF,you make your self a bathroom heater.

I have just started building a solenoid motor,as i have not really built one before--only on a small scale. Once done,we will be able to swap out the PM piston for a steel,iron one,and we can then see which is more efficient,in both inductive kickback energy,and mechanical output power,for a given P./in.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 06:17:24 AM
And what happens when there is a change in reactance value ?


Reactance has two components, Inductive Reactance (XL) and Capacitive Reactance (XC) - So it really does depend on the Circuit and the Frequency with the Circuit's chosen "Values".

For example, when XL = XC, each cancel the other, and we have Resonance. But if the XL is predominant, then the power factor is lagging, inversely, Capacitive Reactance  (XC), then the power factor is leading.

So, what happens? It depends entirely on the Circuit, and the Frequency, but generally, we see an Impedance (Z), which is measured in Ohms (Ω) - This not entirely a Resistance so its worthy noting that calling this a resistance is not entirely correct, but looking at the definition:

Quote

the effective resistance of an electric circuit or component to alternating current, arising from the combined effects of ohmic resistance and reactance.


Most people think of it as a Resistance.

But why? It, Reactance, is the "Resistance" to Change in the Circuit, Reactance, it reacts, in reverse, to the desired Change.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 18, 2016, 07:46:16 AM
Well since it seems that there is only to be rubbish posted here on this thread,here is some more.

See how poor old Petey struggles to explain his own solenoid motor,and gets it drastically wrong.
Another bathroom heater on display by the Macrame Army

The resistance of the coil stays the same--LOL
These guys really need to learn about changing coil inductance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cGg0NK4mjU


Brad

Not a fan of Macrame (sic) Army hence I don't try to defend their actions or research.
But since we are talking about rubbish, I got news: technically speaking, the resistance of a coil does (sorry, I cannot spell it as "dose"), so  the resistance of a coil does change too, does not stay the same --LOL! With temperature! All because I read about bathroom heaters masqueraded as motors.

And since the science police didn't jump to correct the error, I got more news. I don't know where that "50Hz 10KVA Transformer" came up into discussion and I don't think erfinder is wasting his time on that frequency range (although I've seen a demonstration about amplifying harmonics content of a generator spun by hand). However back to the bathroom heater, an iron core will help raise the inductance, but I would ask politely the science police what is an iron core good for when is heated? Think Curie...

As I said, elementary school books. Those still tell the truth but people are selectively twisting the teachings.

As regarding Lenz, erfinder made public demonstrations about circumventing his Law. Who said thanks and then applying what has been learned? One might be gotoluc who took the idea and beat it to death in numerous lengthy tests and at the end ... silence. Nothing. Maybe he is busy now commercializing the idea, what do I know? Did he say thanks? Take a wild guess! Yeah it was a Oompa Loompa science from 19-th century applied by Tesla. But hey, if I didn't hear about that, it must be Oompa Loompa...

Science police... selective and it uses rude criticism.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 08:13:53 AM

As regarding Lenz, erfinder made public demonstrations about circumventing his Law.
Science police... selective and it uses rude criticism.


Erfinder did no such thing--the law stands.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 18, 2016, 08:35:30 AM
snip...
The Impedance (Z), is the Sum of the DC Resistance (R) + the Reactance (X), to Current (I) Flow,
 snip...
You mean the impedance (Z) (of a series circuit) is equal to the Square Root of the Sum of (Resistance Squared plus the Reactance Squared) Assuming of course that you have already subtracted the XC from the XL (or vice verse, depending on whether XL or XC is the greater value)
Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 18, 2016, 09:09:17 AM
@Emj
Quote
But why? It, Reactance, is the "Resistance" to Change in the Circuit, Reactance, it reacts, in reverse, to the desired Change.


On a note of interest, before the term "Reactance" was invented everyone called any resistance to change "Resistance". Which has led to a great deal of confusion when reading old patents because resistance meant ohmic resistance and reactance.


I think the terminology seems skewed, take Inductance for example...
Inductance: is the property of an electrical conductor by which a change in current through it induces an electromotive force in both the conductor itself and in any nearby conductors by mutual inductance.


Is Inductance a property, attribute or component of something which conducts electricity?. I would think it is a property of moving charged particles which produce a changing magnetic field which then produces a force on other charged particles. Yet when we read the definition is gives us literally no insight into what actually happens. For instance by definition we could say charged particles streaming from the Sun have the property of Inductance... what the hell does that mean?. How, why, when and where would seem to be completely missing in action and the term seems meaningless.


Inductance would seem to the property(electrical conduction) of another property (a changing field) of yet another completely different property (an Emf) which then acts on the first supposed property. All lumped into one neat tidy little package which reminds me of a cat chasing it's tail in the dark.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 18, 2016, 09:13:46 AM
Erfinder did no such thing--the law stands.


Brad

I did not say he beat the law, but apparently you cannot tell the difference.
The law stands as you say, however I stand correct, erfinder found at least one way not to fall into Lenz conditions and he has shown it.

If you don't trust me, ask gotoluc.
Who snoozes, looses...
What are you trying to do again? Aah:
It would seem you must have missed my post some time back.
I do not try to defeat lenz. In fact,i try to do the very opposite to that of the thread title.
I try to increase lenz as much as i can,to the point where it exceeds that which created it in the first place.


Brad

Good luck with that.

What is what you are showing in your videos again? Confirming Lenz? That's rich....
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 09:58:16 AM
.
The law stands as you say, however I stand correct, erfinder found at least one way not to fall into Lenz conditions and he has shown it.

If you don't trust me, ask gotoluc.
Who snoozes, looses...
What are you trying to do again? Aah:
Good luck with that.

What is what you are showing in your videos again? Confirming Lenz? That's rich....

Quote
I did not say he beat the law, but apparently you cannot tell the difference

Perhaps you do not understand english so well?
To quote:

As regarding Lenz, erfinder made public demonstrations about circumventing his Law

To circumvent--find a way around.

I repeat--Erfinder did no such thing--the law stands-you just dont know where to look.

So as to refresh your memory
Lenz law-->The direction of current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field due to Faraday's law of induction will be such that it will create a field that opposes the change that produced it.
Lenz's law is shown by the negative sign in Faraday's law of induction:
which indicates that the induced voltage and the change in magnetic flux  have opposite signs.[1] It is a qualitative law that specifies the direction of induced current but says nothing about its magnitude. Lenz's Law explains the direction of many effects in electromagnetism, such as the direction of voltage induced in an inductor or wire loop by a changing current, or why eddy currents exert a drag force on moving objects in a magnetic field.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 10:14:59 AM
I did not say he beat the law, but apparently you cannot tell the difference.
The law stands as you say, however I stand correct, erfinder found at least one way not to fall into Lenz conditions and he has shown it.

If you don't trust me, ask gotoluc.
Who snoozes, looses...
What are you trying to do again? Aah:
Good luck with that.

What is what you are showing in your videos again? Confirming Lenz? That's rich....

You just dont get it-do you.

Once again for your benefit.
Lenz law-->The direction of current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field due to Faraday's law of induction will be such that it will create a field that opposes the change that produced it.

What happens when we increase this opposition to change in an electric motor?
When is the greatest BackEMF induced?
What is it that reduces current flow in an electric motor?

What i stated is correct--i try to increase the field that opposes the change that produced it.
I try to increase Lenz
The more you try to reduce(circumvent) Lenz,the more inefficient your device becomes.
If there is no opposition to current flow(no Lenz)(no impedance),then current would rise to a maximum value instantly in a motor and inductor.
If there was no Lenz in a generator,there would be no current flow at all.
Is it sinking in now?.

Oh look-i circumvented Lenz  ::)
As i said,it can hide where it cant be seen-if your not looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IVxO94mcB0

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 10:24:36 AM
You mean the impedance (Z) (of a series circuit) is equal to the Square Root of the Sum of (Resistance Squared plus the Reactance Squared) Assuming of course that you have already subtracted the XC from the XL (or vice verse, depending on whether XL or XC is the greater value)
Cheers



Hoptoad, there you go, thanks for correcting me! I am glad youre paying attention!

For others, I wrote a small app, I can share if you like?

Quote from: Chris Sykes

            double Ohms = Math.Sqrt((Math.Pow(Volts, 2) + Math.Pow(Amps, 2)));

            double PhaseAngle = RadianToDegree(Math.Atan2(Volts, Amps));

            double Real = (Resistance * Math.Cos(DegreeToRadian(PhaseAngle)));

            double XL = (Resistance * Math.Sin(DegreeToRadian(PhaseAngle)));

            double Impedance = Math.Sqrt((Math.Pow(Real, 2) + Math.Pow(XL, 2)));

            double Inductance = XL / (2 * Math.PI * Frequency);

            double Xc = 2 * Math.PI * Frequency * Inductance;

            double Capacitance = 1 / (2 * Math.PI * Frequency * Xc);



I really do appreaciate being corrected, I am not perfect although I do try...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 10:57:09 AM
@Emj

On a note of interest, before the term "Reactance" was invented everyone called any resistance to change "Resistance". Which has led to a great deal of confusion when reading old patents because resistance meant ohmic resistance and reactance.


I think the terminology seems skewed, take Inductance for example...
Inductance: is the property of an electrical conductor by which a change in current through it induces an electromotive force in both the conductor itself and in any nearby conductors by mutual inductance.


Is Inductance a property, attribute or component of something which conducts electricity?. I would think it is a property of moving charged particles which produce a changing magnetic field which then produces a force on other charged particles. Yet when we read the definition is gives us literally no insight into what actually happens. For instance by definition we could say charged particles streaming from the Sun have the property of Inductance... what the hell does that mean?. How, why, when and where would seem to be completely missing in action and the term seems meaningless.


Inductance would seem to the property(electrical conduction) of another property (a changing field) of yet another completely different property (an Emf) which then acts on the first supposed property. All lumped into one neat tidy little package which reminds me of a cat chasing it's tail in the dark.


AC

Most definitely! The terminology is skewed! Almost by Design?

Inductance is one that I like to refer to the old definition of "Induct" or "To Induct", this sounds like rubbish, but to me it makes very good sense:

Quote

Definitions

noun
1. the act of inducting or state of being inducted

2. the act of inducing

3. (in an internal-combustion engine) the part of the action of a piston by which mixed air and fuel are drawn from the carburettor to the cylinder

4. logic
a. a process of reasoning, used esp in science, by which a general conclusion is drawn from a set of premises, based mainly on experience or experimental evidence. The conclusion goes beyond the information contained in the premises, and does not follow necessarily from them. Thus an inductive argument may be highly probable, yet lead from true premises to a false conclusion

b. a conclusion reached by this process of reasoning. Compare deduction (sense 4)

5. the process by which electrical or magnetic properties are transferred, without physical contact, from one circuit or body to another. See also inductance

6. biology the effect of one tissue, esp an embryonic tissue, on the development of an adjacent tissue

7. biochemistry the process by which synthesis of an enzyme is stimulated by the presence of its substrate

8. mathematics, logic
a. a method of proving a proposition that all integers have a property, by first proving that 1 has the property and then that if the integer n has it so has n + 1

b. the application of recursive rules

9.
a. a formal introduction or entry into an office or position

b. (as modifier) ⇒ induction course, ⇒ induction period

10. US the formal enlistment of a civilian into military service

11. an archaic word for preface




Some amount of insight can be gained by generalising the use of the term, so I agree with you: "To Induce a flow of Charged Particles"

Of course this is the "EMF" the Electro motive Force! But alas, Voltage is only a Potential, and EMF by definition is: "a difference in potential that tends to give rise to an electric current." So realistically, we have no Flow of Charged Particles, but instead, we have the potential for the Flow of Charged Particles!

Completely different things!

I guess, the definition of Induction should change to: "To Induce the potential for Charged Particles to Flow"

Because the Flow of Charged Particles is Current and One Ampere is termed as: 6.25 × 1018 per second, but this is MMF, Magneto Motive Force and not EMF...

MMF, Magneto Motive Force is defined as: "a quantity representing the sum of the magnetizing forces along a circuit." - Which is true, but 180 Degrees out of phase, and in the Math there is not direction of travel, because there is no need in some situations.

There is also nothing in the equations to state that any Time Rate of change is needed for a Flow of Current. Only Voltage.

So, to stop boring all here with lengthy definitions, and the question of accuracy of them, we really should question all of it intensely if we are serious about this. There is a very large area where Holes exist, and if one properly understands the terms and how the terms fit together, them more sense can be made from this field. But, until that point, there lays a road of confusion and circles.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 11:15:02 AM
You just dont get it-do you.

Once again for your benefit.
Lenz law-->The direction of current induced in a conductor by a changing magnetic field due to Faraday's law of induction will be such that it will create a field that opposes the change that produced it.

What happens when we increase this opposition to change in an electric motor?
When is the greatest BackEMF induced?
What is it that reduces current flow in an electric motor?

What i stated is correct--i try to increase the field that opposes the change that produced it.
I try to increase Lenz
The more you try to reduce(circumvent) Lenz,the more inefficient your device becomes.
If there is no opposition to current flow(no Lenz)(no impedance),then current would rise to a maximum value instantly in a motor and inductor.
If there was no Lenz in a generator,there would be no current flow at all.
Is it sinking in now?.

Oh look-i circumvented Lenz  ::)
As i said,it can hide where it cant be seen-if your not looking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IVxO94mcB0

Brad



Brad is completely correct!!!

The ones here that choose not to understand this subject and deny the absolute most basic concepts of Science, and make big deal over temprature drifts, because they do not know any difference, are wrong!!!

I encourage you, do your own research, do your own experiments! Cross Check all what you are being told and learn for yourselves.

Current Flowing in a Coil constitutes a Magnetic Field, No Magnetic Field, No Current Flow, Period, will never in a Million Years change!!!

As was just discussed with AC:


I guess, the definition of Induction should change to: "To Induce the potential for Charged Particles to Flow"


The critical part, is what you do with the Magnetic Field!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 11:56:20 AM

The induced voltage is greatest when rotor and stator fields are in quadrature relation. 

The induced, specifically the induced voltage and current together "regulate" the applied current.



In my opinion, which doesn't matter, till it does....what you are suggesting is exactly what I identified, and stated, you are amplifying the influence that this concept has on your system. This is purpose defeating, we (speaking for myself and those who know becuase they have seen) don't want to increase its influence, we want to decrease it and allow it to return to the system regulated state, thereby creating an oscillation in what would otherwise steady state (steady state used loosely) condition.  Chris asked an important question regarding the inductance of the coil but then takes a step in the wrong direction in saying that increasing it brings one more in line with a parametric oscillator, the opposite is true, it's far easier to drop the inductance than it is to increase it.  Try increasing the inductance to the degree that you can decrease it, observe that you cannot!  Swings on the order of 100:1 are accomplished with relative ease when you "DECREASE" versus increase. This is how you parametrically excite, and from here ferroresonance can manifest as a side effect, you don't even plan for it, it just happens.....



Seriously, the system is terribly inefficient because 90+ percent of the applied is being annihilated by the induced.  Your efficiency increases as you decrease its hold on the system. The thing is, you cannot, the thing to see is we are dealing with a wave, and as such we know how waves behave when they encounter an impedance.  Your mission is to establish the proper impedance for the wave, when the wave meets this impedance a second wave manifests which can be used to counteract the negative influence of the wave which induced it. This is how you negate the effect of lenz, my dogma.



Erfinder - I dissagree.

Take a Coil with a Core, measure the inductance.
Place a large Magnet on the Core, measure the Inductance.

What is the difference going to be, in what direction? Of course every Transformer in the world does the same thing and not any of them are Parametric Oscillators!!!

To your credit, you do have some points. You are completely correct when you said: "In my opinion".


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 12:17:33 PM



@AC - I find MMF interesting, we know the equation is: MMF (F) = Turns (N) X Current (I)

So when an EMF is "Generated", if we draw a current from this Potential to have a Current Flow, then the MMF (F) is 180 Degrees out of Phase, and also it is equal and opposite, ideally, to the Source.

So, the MMF, a Current (I) through Turns (N) has its own Magnetising Force in the opposing Direction, all at the same Time (t), then there is a strong case for the associated properties of the Magnetic Field doing Work well past the boundary of the detectable Magnetic Field itself!

What do you think?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 12:29:57 PM

The difference between us is I speak from my bench, and you from where you speak from, where you speak from isn't my bench.  I use the term opinion even though I am speaking from experience.

That to say this....by all means....disagree.


I just reread your post, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, you aren't familiar with dropping the inductance.  I never mentioned the use of magnets, nor implied anything about them, we aren't on the same page period.  You are disagreeing with something you have yet to verify yourself on the bench....I don't need magnets to manipulate the inductance of my system, nor do I need a change in current or flux...LOL.....  Furthermore, I disagree with you, every transformer, generator, and motor on the planet are parametric oscillators, that which differentiates them from those apparatus which can truly be classified as such is the amplitude of the oscillation.



Erfinder, yes, been there done that already - Graphed it - Publically avaliable on my site: http://www.hyiq.org/Updates/Update?Name=Update%2017-12-13

Guess what the Graph looks like?

Youre just too slow Erfinder!!! Wow you a good at talking!!! Shame its not reflected in your work!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 12:44:09 PM

Great.....a chart.  How about a simple demo of you decreasing the inductance of a coil... followed by an equally simple demo of you increasing the inductance of a coil.



DEMO:

Take the Core Out. WhaLa "decreasing the inductance"

Put the Core back in. WhaLa "increasing the inductance"


Erfinder, you try so hard, but still youre still stuck on the: "In my opinion" bit - Maybe tonight you will wake up and get it?

I do doubt it!!! Too full of Piffle and Dribble!!! You - BIBS - Believe in BS

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: A little more for you Dribble Boy: http://www.hyiq.org/Research/Details?Name=Whats%20it%20going%20to%20take%20to%20Get%20OU%3F


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 01:00:27 PM

That is what you are a master at.....showing other people's work, and standing in the light they shine like the spotlight was turned on for you.  Instead of boasting like you've done something, and or are doing something, how about you actually do something.  Build something, show it off, something other than that circuit you claim is doing more than we know it's actually doing.




The answer is Clown!!!

Your Day Job, the only thing youre good at, is being a Clown!!!

You show no work, but brag about others work, with no understanding of it, so I am a step ahead of you there also.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 01:14:26 PM

If you say so....


I'll hold my breath while waiting for you to demonstrate something practical with all that "information" (we can get off google ourselves) you shower us with.




Hahaha - How long can someone hold their breath? 6 Minutes before Brain Death occurs?

Hahahaha - We shouldn’t joke about such things especially under these circumstances, almost certain history of Brain Death...

Hahaha - Oh dear there I go again, sorry... is that considered malicious, or just plain Funny???


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org




Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 18, 2016, 01:49:47 PM
Hahaha - How long can someone hold their breath? 6 Minutes before Brain Death occurs?
snip...
LOL. Sorry, but If you were drinking with me at a pub and I bet you I could hold my breath for 10 minutes, no problem, you'd lose
if you took the bet.
You see, I'd just drink what's left in my glass, take a deep breath, hold the glass to my mouth and exhale my
breath into it, then slide my hand over the top of the glass and hold it for the next ten minutes.
I didn't say how I'd hold my breath, only that I'd hold it!
LOL - Cheers
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 18, 2016, 01:56:48 PM
LOL. Sorry, but If you were drinking with me at a pub and I bet you I could hold my breath for 10 minutes, no problem, you'd lose
if you took the bet.
You see, I'd just drink what's left in my glass, take a deep breath, hold the glass to my mouth and exhale my
breath into it, then slide my hand over the top of the glass and hold it for the next ten minutes.
I didn't say how I'd hold my breath, only that I'd hold it!
LOL - Cheers

Only the glass is holding your breath,and you are holding the glass  :D


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 18, 2016, 02:07:14 PM
Only the glass is holding your breath,and you are holding the glass  :D
Brad
LOL. Yep. And in my local pub's patron rules that'd be enough reason for another round of drinks. Paid for by the one with least support from everyone else at the bar. LOL
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 18, 2016, 05:25:57 PM



Barbosi... what an interesting handle. Google translates best guess is that it is Romanian for "bearded"


In english bearded can mean "hidden", are you using it in this context? very clever!


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 18, 2016, 07:47:10 PM
Yeah google does a poor job for a number of known languages: celtic, kannada, cree, manding, not to mention sanskrit.

What I find fascinating is "if we can decrease (with a magnet as an example) the inductance of a coil, where does that inductance go?" (Google cannot deliver an answer to that either and yet, they boast about driverless cars).

It's like a fat dude does some physical exercises and lose some weight. Where all that weight goes?

Like a fat magnetic field collapses, where does it goes?

The conservation law formulated for a layman says: nothing is lost, nothing is gained, all is transformed.

So if we lose inductance, then the said inductance is transformed in what?
When a current flows into an inductance, it generates magnetic field and the said inductance is immersed in its own magnetic field. Hence, the value of inductance has a lower value.

With this "paradox" in mind, one cannot refrain to ask the question: " A transformer... what it transforms?" It is not just semantics, people of the past used words with great care so the true workings of an idea are not lost.

An example of lost meaning we have today in the word "capacitor" as opposed to "condenser" as it was used in the past. As one can understand that a pulley is something used to pull, it will be confused when it uses capacitor. It capacitates what? While a condenser... We all know what a condenser does in the workings of a fridge. Can be same principle valid in electric circuits?

Tesla showed in his pancake coil that a regular coil posses a "capacitance" which is greatly revealed in the coil that makes the subject of his invention. Nowadays we all know that wire, a pair of wires, even a metal sphere have a capacitance, they teach us formulas for those too.

Back to the transformer, is it possible that the changing magnetic field is transformed into something else using a "condensation" method?
If that is true, the so called mutual induction mentioned earlier by AC can be "confused" as a capacitive transfer of energy. Can anyone truly say the difference?

Regards
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 18, 2016, 09:50:46 PM

Like a fat magnetic field collapses, where does it go?

Regards


Could it be that it goes back to the fourth dimension, from whence it came?


Ron
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1044169/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1044169/pg1)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 10:26:16 PM
Yeah google does a poor job for a number of known languages: celtic, kannada, cree, manding, not to mention sanskrit.

What I find fascinating is "if we can decrease (with a magnet as an example) the inductance of a coil, where does that inductance go?" (Google cannot deliver an answer to that either and yet, they boast about driverless cars).

It's like a fat dude does some physical exercises and lose some weight. Where all that weight goes?

Like a fat magnetic field collapses, where does it goes?

The conservation law formulated for a layman says: nothing is lost, nothing is gained, all is transformed.

So if we lose inductance, then the said inductance is transformed in what?
When a current flows into an inductance, it generates magnetic field and the said inductance is immersed in its own magnetic field. Hence, the value of inductance has a lower value.

With this "paradox" in mind, one cannot refrain to ask the question: " A transformer... what it transforms?" It is not just semantics, people of the past used words with great care so the true workings of an idea are not lost.

An example of lost meaning we have today in the word "capacitor" as opposed to "condenser" as it was used in the past. As one can understand that a pulley is something used to pull, it will be confused when it uses capacitor. It capacitates what? While a condenser... We all know what a condenser does in the workings of a fridge. Can be same principle valid in electric circuits?

Tesla showed in his pancake coil that a regular coil posses a "capacitance" which is greatly revealed in the coil that makes the subject of his invention. Nowadays we all know that wire, a pair of wires, even a metal sphere have a capacitance, they teach us formulas for those too.

Back to the transformer, is it possible that the changing magnetic field is transformed into something else using a "condensation" method?
If that is true, the so called mutual induction mentioned earlier by AC can be "confused" as a capacitive transfer of energy. Can anyone truly say the difference?

Regards




WHAT!!!

Inductance is not like a Bag of Sugar Erfinder! What a complete bunch or Verbal Rubbish!!!

Take an Inductance Meter, connect to a scope, look at the signal, what do you see?

Mine is  239.7Hz @ 35% Duty Cycle

Why? What’s the Signal DOING? What are we Measuring when we measure Inductance?

Does: "To Induce the potential for Charged Particles to Flow" make any sense?

A Coils Inductance is simply a "Value" - A "Value" indicating the Potential for Induced Current, which is a Charged Particle Flow. What does Charged Particle Flow Constitute? Yes a Magnetic Field!

You Have a LONG WAY to go before an understanding of these concepts are available to you Erfinder!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 18, 2016, 11:02:02 PM


Ampere Turns (AT) = Turns (N) x Current (I) and Magnetomotive Force (MMF) = Turns (N) x Current (I) - As you can see the formula is the same. Ampere Turns is in Units of MMF.

In a Coil of Wire, with Turns (N) carrying Current (I) where the Current is Uniform and all moving in the same direction, what do you think the result would be? What would the effects of this Force be?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 18, 2016, 11:31:46 PM

Ampere Turns (AT) = Turns (N) x Current (I) and Magnetomotive Force (MMF) = Turns (N) x Current (I) - As you can see the formula is the same. Ampere Turns is in Units of MMF.

In a Coil of Wire, with Turns (N) carrying Current (I) where the Current is Uniform and all moving in the same direction, what do you think the result would be? What would the effects of this Force be?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Oh, that's fine and dandy but those formulas do not explain where magnetic field goes when it collapses, does it?

This guy explains it with same usefulness what you did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUh29nkLwao

Nice try, but I'm not convinced.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 19, 2016, 01:07:12 AM

where magnetic field goes when it collapses,


Rocket science  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3gjlskQOJ4


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 19, 2016, 01:51:45 AM
Rocket science  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3gjlskQOJ4


Brad

Funny, but no!

It's in the damn elementary books on electricity, you gonna feel silly when you'll see it, all have seen the picture.

It's about 2 fields in quadrature relationship...

Nothing yet? the junkie guy is not so junky if his ignores it...

No, nothing? What a hell, here is a picture:
http://helios.augustana.edu/~dr/102/img/17_07.jpg

And this is a third time I am helping you and so far I didn't get any thank you, but rather insults.

Regards.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 03:16:47 AM
Funny, but no!

It's in the damn elementary books on electricity, you gonna feel silly when you'll see it, all have seen the picture.

It's about 2 fields in quadrature relationship...

Nothing yet? the junkie guy is not so junky if his ignores it...

No, nothing? What a hell, here is a picture:
http://helios.augustana.edu/~dr/102/img/17_07.jpg

And this is a third time I am helping you and so far I didn't get any thank you, but rather insults.

Regards.



BarBozo - You are completely wrong!!!

Technically the image you show is wrong also.

Why?

Static Charges have no Net Magnetic Field associated with them!!! Static Dipole is also subject to the same criteria! This is why you’re wrong and don’t know the difference between the two!!!

You move the Charge, and now it is no longer static, then a Magnetic Field is associated with the Moving Charge!!!

Your Image should include a relative Velocity associated with the Charges and then it is Valid to have an associated Magnetic Field. So, Basic Text Book Concepts have fooled you into a situation where the hole you now sit in has no ladder out!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 19, 2016, 04:15:36 AM


BarBozo - You are completely wrong!!!

Technically the image you show is wrong also.

Why?

Static Charges have no Net Magnetic Field associated with them!!! Static Dipole is also subject to the same criteria! This is why you’re wrong and don’t know the difference between the two!!!

You move the Charge, and now it is no longer static, then a Magnetic Field is associated with the Moving Charge!!!

Your Image should include a relative Velocity associated with the Charges and then it is Valid to have an associated Magnetic Field. So, Basic Text Book Concepts have fooled you into a situation where the hole you now sit in has no ladder out!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

That's your skewed view on electricity. You learned electrostatics has nothing to do with electrodynamics and you swallowed that shit till the brains were squeezed out through the scalp pores. Then you combed. Damn!

But if you can make an intellectual exercise, replace those "charges" with wires?  Can you feel the familiar domain of electrodynamics, or really you want a picture from the beginning of the 20-th century? Do you recognize the fields now?
Now a quiz for you, science parrot: please identify by the color the fields and name them! I don't mean to be disrespectful about eventual physical abilities, but if you are color blind, let me know and I'll look for other picture in different shades. Internet is full of them I don't know how you could miss them. with wires too, not only electric charges.

As per the electrostatics, I prefer the works of the Master, and I attach a picture he used in his electrostatic experiments. Please enjoy the full description directly from the reading material, as you will find him completely describing his transformer. Please don't tell me that it has nothing to do with your prostitution you call partnered coils. I do this here because I don't feel spreading my but chicks over that topic too.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Tesla-DisruptiveDischargeBox.png

Don't forget the quiz, truly yours,
barbosi


PS: about electrostatics the way you still need to learn, here is a link, scroll down to "Electric Force Example".
What is the force that can be obtained with 120W? 1.01 Million Tons!!!
In your face. And don't tell anything about not being electrostatics, go in top of the page again and read "Coulomb's Law". Made by some scientists from... read the web address.
And Tesla did not lie. It's only our sorry a$$es incapable to put together the concepts he left us.

Now slap yourself and quit drinking! You are not helping, your are confusing people!

Next !!!!!
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 19, 2016, 06:56:19 AM
So many guru's
So few working devices

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 07:10:50 AM



BarBozo - Your filthy Drivel is just ridiculous! Compensating for something are we?

I am very familiar with Electrostatics and also Electrodynamics, in fact, perhaps more familiar than you may ever realise!

In all of Electrodynamics, Velocity (V) is defined as part of the Dynamical Formula's relative to Time (t) - The sooner you realise this, the less stupid you will look!

In the image you posted, to which you refer to, if the Charged Particles are moving concentrically around the common central point with Velocity (V) over the Course of Time (t) then we will see Field's, both Electric (Red) and Magnetic (Green) - But there is no indication of a Dynamic System, in the Image you posted, as I already pointed out!!! Which means it’s Static, and Wrong!


Below I show the work of another, 1878 is the date of publication, a very well-known Author: James Clerk Maxwell - A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism - Notice the very clear indications of a Electrodynamic System! EG: "Circular Current"

This may be worth a bit more than your "Scroll Down To" rubbish! You’re completely full of Rubbish! Tesla studied the work of others, one being the works of Maxwell, let’s not forget that! Yes Tesla was a brilliant Man, but a Man he was. You take Tesla's work completely out of context and make wild assumptions on it, clearly not understanding most all of it!

Thus the Air Core 50Hz 10KVA Transformer that you and Erfinder worked on, it will fail because of your miss-understandings of Tesla’s work.

You assume far too much and gamble on bad bets! Thus you’re strange Post with bad spelling and words put out of context.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 08:11:03 AM
So many guru's
So few working devices

Brad



Yes, we humans are stuck in our destructive ways aren’t we!

We don’t care for each other the way we should, after all we are all brothers and sisters! Maybe that’s the problem, sibling rivalry, bickering between siblings.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 08:41:53 AM




Dear Barbosi - See Image for the Electrodynamic version of your Image:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on September 19, 2016, 09:58:37 AM
Hi Chris, I'm assuming that field pattern is when the coil is being pulsed with a power supply.
What will the pattern look like when being induced by a single magnetic rotor of all the same field,
the magnets being spaced so one is reaching the coil as the other is leaving the coil?
artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 10:32:47 AM
Hi Chris, I'm assuming that field pattern is when the coil is being pulsed with a power supply.
What will the pattern look like when being induced by a single magnetic rotor of all the same field,
the magnets being spaced so one is reaching the coil as the other is leaving the coil?
artv


Hey ArtV - Yes, the arrow on the single loop of wire indicates a flow of Current, which constitutes a Magnetic Field. This is the Electrodynamic System because of the Change over Time of the Charge in this case. The Charge is not Static, it has motion and it takes time.

I am being picky and Barbosi was implying an Electrodynamic System, but I wanted to point out there is a massive difference! Barbosi does have some good arguments and is right in the Transformation of one form of energy to another. I was giving him some of the Science Police Baton.

I think its important to question everything untill it is understood! Even then, keep questioning!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 19, 2016, 11:40:01 AM
Funny, but no!

It's in the damn elementary books on electricity, you gonna feel silly when you'll see it, all have seen the picture.

It's about 2 fields in quadrature relationship...

Nothing yet? the junkie guy is not so junky if his ignores it...

No, nothing? What a hell, here is a picture:
http://helios.augustana.edu/~dr/102/img/17_07.jpg

And this is a third time I am helping you and so far I didn't get any thank you, but rather insults.

Regards.

But what about my lenz free generator ?  :D

I mean,is that not what was so great about Jim Murrays dynaflux generator?-no load reflected on the prime mover when a load was drawn from the generator  ;D

Like i said-you get it all mixed up,and you dont know what you are looking at,and you dont know where to look.
So much talk,and nothing to show for such great wisdom  ::),while those that try to explain thins ,and show what is what on the bench,are told they do not know what they are talking about.
If i did not know better,i would say your a member of the Macrame Army--this is how they work--these are the things they miss,or simply are to stupid to know what to look for,or where to look for it.

Once again--a reduction of force placed on the prime mover,when a load is placed on the generator-->by by Lenz--!!right!!  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IVxO94mcB0


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 19, 2016, 05:45:36 PM
No.

One last chance to prove your worth as wannabe-guru.
I'll rephrase: Please name the fields around a conductor when is connected to a power source (battery).
Hint: There are 2 fields, you should know them from school books.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 19, 2016, 07:31:51 PM

You were not addressing me, however, your post was the perfect opprotunity for me to share something which will only resonate with a select few.  It has taken what feels like a lifetime to feel what they left for us to find and make our own.  I continue to make that which is/was theirs mine.  The following was distilled from a decade of tireless contemplation, it is theirs made mine. Exchange the right word, with the right word, and one can begin to engineer the philosophical.


The tank informs one where magnetism goes.  The tank informs one that magnetism has no existence, no purpose, no function outside of that of Fulcrum for that which extends from-toward, toward-from Fulcrum.  That which extends from Fulcrum is not the facilitator of the simultaneous-sequential action-reaction, it is the simultaneous-sequential action reaction, Fulcrum is cause.  That which is projected from Fulcrum is that which we must seek to comprehend and understand, and through this effort, through our gained understanding, reunite that which emerges from Fulcrum as a duality into a unity, and simulate Source, simulate Fulcrum. 

Regards


Different words perhaps but getting close.


It starts to become more clear when you work with vibration and how length is vibration, for example the ancients and their use of Ra tubes. Then you can learn to feel the energy. This then opens up the field to the "you" factor and why certain inventors, who have made the 'connection', have devices that only work for themselves.

Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: SolarLab on September 19, 2016, 07:32:46 PM
F.Y.I.

The following links (information) may assist in your studies and further understanding:

SELF-ELECTRIC : electrodynamic induction
http://electromaster.ru/modules/myarticles/article.php?storyid=42 (http://electromaster.ru/modules/myarticles/article.php?storyid=42)
[[Article in Russian - use "Im Webpage Translator" or your favourite language translator]]

=====

THEORY OF THE ЕН AND HZ ANTENNAS
http://www.unconv-association.org/sites/unconventional/files/publications/EH_HZ.pdf (http://www.unconv-association.org/sites/unconventional/files/publications/EH_HZ.pdf)

Follow up information:

A new type of electromagnetic radiation?
https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.unconv-association.org/sites/unconventional/files/publications/korobeinikov1/1.htm (https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.unconv-association.org/sites/unconventional/files/publications/korobeinikov1/1.htm)

Antennas  (EH)
http://www.qrz.ru/schemes/contribute/antenns/eh/&usg=ALkJrhgSisetumACEfhgygWBc0mQQeVXgQ (http://www.qrz.ru/schemes/contribute/antenns/eh/&usg=ALkJrhgSisetumACEfhgygWBc0mQQeVXgQ)

Magnetic antenna for ultra-long radio
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.qrz.ru/schemes/contribute/antenns/eh/&usg=ALkJrhgSisetumACEfhgygWBc0mQQeVXgQ (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.qrz.ru/schemes/contribute/antenns/eh/&usg=ALkJrhgSisetumACEfhgygWBc0mQQeVXgQ)

Truth and fiction EH-Antenna
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.qrz.ru/articles/detail.phtml%3Fid%3D282&usg=ALkJrhjj2UFx_5IoZ9fA20JEI9uplsHvLw (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.qrz.ru/articles/detail.phtml%3Fid%3D282&usg=ALkJrhjj2UFx_5IoZ9fA20JEI9uplsHvLw)

The theory of relativity and the related problems (Articles)
https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://n-t.ru/tp/pp.htm  (https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://n-t.ru/tp/pp.htm)

Upon reviewing these articles, their relation to this subject hopefully will become apparent.

FIN

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 19, 2016, 11:14:09 PM
No.

One last chance to prove your worth as wannabe-guru.
I'll rephrase: Please name the fields around a conductor when is connected to a power source (battery).
Hint: There are 2 fields, you should know them from school books.



Dear Old Barbozo, partner in Science Crime of Erfinder and lover of Mistruths,

You have a clear direction of trying to prove others inferior - Why?

We sit and read your posts and just laugh at your silliness!

If you could read, you would already see that your silliness has been addressed and answered for you. But alas you are stuck in your sill childish game, trying to prove something!

You, and your partner in Science Crimes against Humanity are just a distraction! Have nothing and will always have nothing!



   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 19, 2016, 11:32:59 PM
How about not wasting pages with posts of just insulting one another. Its getting very tiring.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 20, 2016, 12:34:43 AM
No.

One last chance to prove your worth as wannabe-guru.
I'll rephrase: Please name the fields around a conductor when is connected to a power source (battery).
Hint: There are 2 fields, you should know them from school books.

What kind of inductor?--is it open at each end,or a toroid?
Is the current changing in time,or is it at a static value?
How is the inductor wound?

These are the things a school book would explain,that you have left out.  ;)


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 20, 2016, 02:53:49 AM
That's your skewed view on electricity. You learned electrostatics has nothing to do with electrodynamics and you swallowed that shit till the brains were squeezed out through the scalp pores. Then you combed. Damn!

But if you can make an intellectual exercise, replace those "charges" with wires?  Can you feel the familiar domain of electrodynamics, or really you want a picture from the beginning of the 20-th century? Do you recognize the fields now?
Now a quiz for you, science parrot: please identify by the color the fields and name them! I don't mean to be disrespectful about eventual physical abilities, but if you are color blind, let me know and I'll look for other picture in different shades. Internet is full of them I don't know how you could miss them. with wires too, not only electric charges.

As per the electrostatics, I prefer the works of the Master, and I attach a picture he used in his electrostatic experiments. Please enjoy the full description directly from the reading material, as you will find him completely describing his transformer. Please don't tell me that it has nothing to do with your prostitution you call partnered coils. I do this here because I don't feel spreading my but chicks over that topic too.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Tesla-DisruptiveDischargeBox.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Tesla-DisruptiveDischargeBox.png)

Don't forget the quiz, truly yours,
barbosi


PS: about electrostatics the way you still need to learn, here is a link, scroll down to "Electric Force Example".
What is the force that can be obtained with 120W? 1.01 Million Tons!!!
In your face. And don't tell anything about not being electrostatics, go in top of the page again and read "Coulomb's Law". Made by some scientists from... read the web address.
And Tesla did not lie. It's only our sorry a$$es incapable to put together the concepts he left us.

Now slap yourself and quit drinking! You are not helping, your are confusing people!

Next !!!!!


Hello barbosi,
could you give me/us the link to this surprising numbers
"120 W (giving) 1,01 Mio. Tons (compression/expansion force/pressure)"
 normally only receiveable by nuclear reactors ! Condensate : Einstein-Bose ? Capacitor is also called Condensator : 2-plates field force
                                      Bethe-Weizsaecker Formula
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spektrum.de%2Flexikon%2Fphysik%2Fbethe-weizsaecker-formel%2F1493&edit-text=
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 20, 2016, 03:39:26 AM
IancaIV


It is well known the electrostatic force is very large. I believe the numbers say if we had two 1 m^2 plates spaced 1 meter apart and moved 1 ampere of current of opposite charges to each plate the force of attraction generated would be 1 million tons. This cannot be done for obvious reasons however that does not change the fact the forces are extremely large.


In another example if we took a cube of aluminum as big as a sugar cube and separated all the charges in it 1 meter apart the force of attraction would be 32 million million million pounds. Equivalent to the force applied by the weight of a cube of steel 76 miles high, 76 miles wide and 76 miles long.


I know all these things from memory because my primary field of expertise is electrostatics outside the context of my occupation as an Engineer. Electromagnetic phenomena has been well explored however electrostatics is still considered the black arts in many circles. We have much to learn in this area.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Dog-One on September 20, 2016, 10:56:10 AM
Quote from: Erfinder
I have an idea which should put us all back on the path of finding that which brings us here.  Inspired by the pulse motor build off intro videos, we could present our best working idea on the topic of motor-generators.  No schematics, no measurement data, no measurement instruments, just a brief description of your concept, followed by a brief demonstration of the same.


Okay, Concept:

Using a simple non-switched DC current source passed through a conductive wire or other material of the size and shape necessary, convert the rotational field that emanates from this conductor into a rotational mechanical force upon a shaft.


Implementation:

The hard part yes.  Myself, I cannot see the mechanism needed to mesh with and gear down this rotational field without extreme friction (resistance) as the velocity of this field is unknown but likely extremely fast.  The concept of gearing, a.k.a. impedance matching must be effectively mastered, knowing that impedance to be the ratio of voltage to current.  This transformation then becomes a relative abstraction from the micro (beyond atomic in scale) to normal human size physical objects.  The device responsible for this transformation will effectively integrate electrical and mechanical constructs into a complete demonstration prototype unifying natural phenomena with physical reality.



All I can say is this makes my head hurt to even think about it, but if there is a player out there that wants to bring their A-game to the table and build such a device, you have my full support.  A ball bearing motor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgfwPaZFR-c) may be a minimalistic starting point.

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 20, 2016, 11:09:38 AM
electro-static,mesh,Tesla:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=48&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19220710&CC=GB&NR=157263A&KC=A (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=48&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19220710&CC=GB&NR=157263A&KC=A)


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=49&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19220710&CC=GB&NR=157262A&KC=A (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=49&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19220710&CC=GB&NR=157262A&KC=A)


My posts are ever my own work related.


I understand the first device,developed with him,Jorge Ferreira and I realized the
"Imris capacitive winding",has been part from a project with the participation from Dr.Pavel Imris,  but not the two next.

The Traun-papers has become also bespoken,during the question/answer re-/search,but several years before this project.
 
           relationship : Unit Tesla and Unit Torr
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 20, 2016, 12:01:16 PM

Okay, Concept:

Using a simple non-switched DC current source passed through a conductive wire or other material of the size and shape necessary, convert the rotational field that emanates from this conductor into a rotational mechanical force upon a shaft.


Implementation:

The hard part yes.  Myself, I cannot see the mechanism needed to mesh with and gear down this rotational field without extreme friction (resistance) as the velocity of this field is unknown but likely extremely fast.  The concept of gearing, a.k.a. impedance matching must be effectively mastered, knowing that impedance to be the ratio of voltage to current.  This transformation then becomes a relative abstraction from the micro (beyond atomic in scale) to normal human size physical objects.  The device responsible for this transformation will effectively integrate electrical and mechanical constructs into a complete demonstration prototype unifying natural phenomena with physical reality.



All I can say is this makes my head hurt to even think about it, but if there is a player out there that wants to bring their A-game to the table and build such a device, you have my full support.  A ball bearing motor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgfwPaZFR-c) may be a minimalistic starting point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc8Iw1OwYxI

Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: minnie on September 20, 2016, 12:56:56 PM



For the tinman,one of my builds exported to Germany.
Bickers Court Oscar.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 20, 2016, 03:15:36 PM


For the tinman,one of my builds exported to Germany.
Bickers Court Oscar.


Lol-here he is  :D
Where ya been Minnie ?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 20, 2016, 03:27:38 PM
New window motor up and running.
Check out the H wave.
What is the difference between my H wave,and all the others?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 20, 2016, 03:53:39 PM

Hello barbosi,
could you give me/us the link to this surprising numbers
"120 W (giving) 1,01 Mio. Tons (compression/expansion force/pressure)"
 

Sorry I forgot the link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elefor.html
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 20, 2016, 05:18:41 PM
Thanks for request answer but for me this does not let me enter to this hyperphysics theme !
Probably later.


Sincerely
              OCWL
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 20, 2016, 07:23:40 PM
New window motor up and running.
Check out the H wave.
What is the difference between my H wave,and all the others?


Brad


Beautiful build Brad. I would say coil placement to answer your question


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 20, 2016, 09:12:30 PM
Hi Brad,

I'll throw my guesses in here also.  I believe you are running your motor in attraction mode.  You are firing the coil as the magnet approaches for a pretty short pulse.  That is the narrow pulse.  Then as the magnet passes the coil you get the hump in the middle.  I also think you have the magnet set on edge so that as one pole approaches the coil when the magnet passes the middle of the coil the other pole will be leaving the coil.  I have done this before and it gives you a nice signal with no change in polarity.  Very nice build!

Carroll
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2016, 12:40:04 AM
 author=webby1 link=topic=15307.msg492283#msg492283 date=1474396054]




Quote
That it gives you a scope shot without being connected?

It is connected

Quote
Is the motor running?


Yes,it is running-thought the frequency and trace on the scope would tell you that.

 
Quote
and why is there that non used piece between the battery and motor bearing stand?

That is the relay timer circuit for the cap dump system-yet to be installed. There is a generating coil to go on top of the rotor,and this will fill caps,and then dump that stored energy back into the run battery.Remember-a well built pulse motor will not draw more power when a load is placed on it,and so any energy generated by the rotor ,comes at no extra cost.

Quote
I also assume that you are running with a center tapped drive coil with the center tap connected to the center connection of the series batteries,, and maybe your magnet pole orientation is rotated 90 degrees.

No,the HV MOT coil is split into two coil's,where one half is the trigger coil,and the other half is the drive coil.

Quote
And while I'm at it,, maybe your truck needs an oil change?  Tires rotated,, man that would be a lot of wheel nuts if ALL of them heeded it.

No-dont drive trucks anymore  ;)

Quote
I like the way it looks like a house with a chimney :)

The !famous! H wave lol.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 21, 2016, 12:52:53 AM





One for Chris...


https://youtu.be/41B4g4wELLM


Only running at 1440 RPM, need to rework the pulleys, but anyway, first run


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2016, 01:29:17 AM
 author=citfta link=topic=15307.msg492287#msg492287 date=1474398750]


Hi Carroll

Quote
I'll throw my guesses in here also.  I believe you are running your motor in attraction mode.

The motor is being run in attraction and repulsion mode,as the magnetic field is alternating.
I have two large crescent shaped magnets from a DC motor glued to the rotor. This means that while the coil is pushing one away,it is also pulling the other toward it.

Quote
You are firing the coil as the magnet approaches for a pretty short pulse.  That is the narrow pulse.

The scope trace gives us quite a bit of information. The scope probe is across the collector/emitter junction. The narrow pulse you see is the inductive kickback pulse,and the large hump after that,is generated current from the drive coil,that is also charging the charge battery.
The scope trace tells us that
1-the battery being charged has a very low impedance (or internal resistance),and is quite healthy,as the inductive kickback spike is being clamped quite well at near the series voltage of the run and charge batteries. If the charge battery was badly sulphated,then both the inductive kickback spike,and hump after that,would show a much higher voltage value--remember,the V/max on the scope is showing the series voltage of both batteries,as they are connected in series.
2-Most of the energy being sent to the charge battery(in this case),is not from the inductive kickback,but from the generated power of the passing magnet over the coil-->the large hump after the small spike
3-the trace also tells us we are running very close to a 50% duty cycle.

Quote
I also think you have the magnet set on edge so that as one pole approaches the coil when the magnet passes the middle of the coil the other pole will be leaving the coil.

This is mostly correct,but where as i have two  magnets set in an alternating pattern,but the results are the same.

Quote
Very nice build!

Thank you,but she is not finished yet. ;)
Still have a generator coil to go on top,and the cap dump system to finish

So,some quick power calculations show that i am sending 81% of the P/in to the charge battery.
This means that i only have to be able to generate 19% of the input power,and send it back to the run battery,with my (to come) cap dump system.
Once we do that,we have a self runner-right  :D. Well as small as that 19% sounds,having tried this before,i know it is a very big ask. There is also the fact that lead acid and AGM batteries,only have about an 80% charge efficiency,where you would need to send 100 amp hours to the battery,to get only 80 amp hours out of it,as there is about a 20% loss in charging these batteries. So we are actually looking for around another 39% of the input power-just to gain unity ::)-but who knows how that will change,having the small inductive spike in there as well.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2016, 01:35:15 AM




One for Chris...


https://youtu.be/41B4g4wELLM


Only running at 1440 RPM, need to rework the pulleys, but anyway, first run


Ron

Hi Ron
Seems to run quite smooth--nice build.
What are the two meters showing?


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 21, 2016, 01:36:51 AM

Beautiful build Brad. I would say coil placement to answer your question


Ron

Thanks Ron.
I still have the cap dump system to finish,and the gen coil to be placed on top of the rotor.

magnet answer in reply to Carroll.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 21, 2016, 02:22:44 AM




One for Chris...


https://youtu.be/41B4g4wELLM (https://youtu.be/41B4g4wELLM)


Only running at 1440 RPM, need to rework the pulleys, but anyway, first run


Ron


I've always admired your handy work.  Looks  good.


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 21, 2016, 02:24:00 AM




One for Chris...


https://youtu.be/41B4g4wELLM


Only running at 1440 RPM, need to rework the pulleys, but anyway, first run


Ron



Hi Ron - Beautiful!!!

I know you are well versed in these areas, but if I may say, look at the magnetic Fields, see whats happening to them. If you have a Magnetic Probe, check the Field in the Gap while placing different load resistances on the device.

You can see in your video, there is a very slight slow down with load, then speed picks back up again.

The Gap you have, between the poles, if it can be adjusted, then this can change the observable behaviours of the running of the machine.

I learnt a lot in my build, I hope others find it as usefull.

Very nice Ron!!! Thumbs up as always from me!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 21, 2016, 02:27:12 AM
Hey Brad
S[/size][size=78%]
Quote
[/size]o,some quick power calculations show that i am sending 81% of the P/in to the charge battery.[/font]This means that i only have to be able to generate 19% of the input power,and send it back to the run battery,with my (to come) cap dump system.[/size]Once we do that,we have a self runner-right  . Well as small as that 19% sounds,having tried this before,i know it is a very big ask. There is also the fact that lead acid and AGM batteries,only have about an 80% charge efficiency,where you would need to send 100 amp hours to the battery,to get only 80 amp hours out of it,as there is about a 20% loss in charging these batteries. So we are actually looking for around another 39% of the input power-just to gain unity -but who knows how that will change,having the small inductive spike in there as well.


This is where the one input/output cap would really shine in my opinion. No calculations to speak of, no non-sinusoidal wave forms meters have trouble with and no dissecting of wave forms to calculate power . Simply one capacitor which either loses voltage or gains voltage. It is also very easy to measure efficiency as whatever the external DC input is to the capacitor to maintain the voltage which drives the system are the losses in the system. Think of it as a free energy meter and if the input ever approaches zero and beyond... well then your the man.


We all know the drill and generally every circuit element invokes losses...so it may be that less is more. If it does not add to the generation function then discard it and if it does expand on it. Nice clean build.


AC



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 21, 2016, 03:05:14 AM
Hi Ron
Seems to run quite smooth--nice build.
What are the two meters showing?


Brad


The meter on the left shows output voltage... the right hand meter shows input amps, well, mV over the shunt. The shunt is 50 mV = 25 amps.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 21, 2016, 05:14:48 AM


Hi Ron - Beautiful!!!

I know you are well versed in these areas, but if I may say, look at the magnetic Fields, see whats happening to them. If you have a Magnetic Probe, check the Field in the Gap while placing different load resistances on the device.

You can see in your video, there is a very slight slow down with load, then speed picks back up again.

The Gap you have, between the poles, if it can be adjusted, then this can change the observable behaviours of the running of the machine.

I learnt a lot in my build, I hope others find it as usefull.

Very nice Ron!!! Thumbs up as always from me!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris!


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Grumage on September 21, 2016, 11:58:51 AM
New window motor up and running.

What is the difference between my H wave,and all the others?

Brad

It looks just like a house ??

 :)

Cheers Grum.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 21, 2016, 10:47:03 PM

I learnt a lot in my build, I hope others find it as usefull.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


As Richard Nixon would say, "let me make one thing perfectly clear". So here I am not talking about COP, rather COST. For sake of argument I am not counting the 100 watts or so that the prime mover is drawing, rather, just the small increase in draw between load and no load.


I will call this 'my efficiency of induction'


For example, at 629 RPM the increased draw from no load to load was 2,4 watts. While the output was 1,25 watts (About 52 %)

In the video I have: 1440 RPM, an increase of 6 watts for an output of 4.7 watts (78 %)

And now the best part, with the increased pully ratio I was able to get up to 4843 RPM, BUT, at 3000 RPM the increase was 7.8 watts for an output of 9.97 watts!!!

Higher RPM's and this ratio started to drop, so around 3000 RPM is the sweet spot.

Here is a couple of scope shots... first, no load, second under load (probe set to X 10)

Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 21, 2016, 11:10:25 PM
Excuse me,i_ron,but how you like to describe your progress this let me remembering about the kind of description from Carlos Subieta Garron in his paper 1969 !
I will offer his paper for comparing
https://www.google.ch/patents/US4064442 (https://www.google.ch/patents/US4064442)



I saw that his nephew did a progress : http://www.paginasiete.bo/miradas/2015/12/20/boliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html (http://www.paginasiete.bo/miradas/2015/12/20/boliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paginasiete.bo%2Fmiradas%2F2015%2F12%2F20%2Fboliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html&edit-text= (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paginasiete.bo%2Fmiradas%2F2015%2F12%2F20%2Fboliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html&edit-text=)

I do not offend you,I am also interested in progress !
Here the nephew patent publication,for me also new,so I will not comment it !
http://www.google.com/patents/US20080030092


If you see who did refered/cited the other work from this bolivian inventor you will not become angry or underestimated:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3368141 (https://www.google.com/patents/US3368141)
http://alt-sci.ru/en/wiki/Vortical_transformers (http://alt-sci.ru/en/wiki/Vortical_transformers)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 22, 2016, 01:20:26 AM
Excuse me,i_ron,but how you like to describe your progress this let me remembering about the kind of description from Carlos Subieta Garron in his paper 1969 !
I will offer his paper for comparing
https://www.google.ch/patents/US4064442 (https://www.google.ch/patents/US4064442)



I saw that his nephew did a progress : http://www.paginasiete.bo/miradas/2015/12/20/boliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html (http://www.paginasiete.bo/miradas/2015/12/20/boliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html)

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paginasiete.bo%2Fmiradas%2F2015%2F12%2F20%2Fboliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html&edit-text= (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.paginasiete.bo%2Fmiradas%2F2015%2F12%2F20%2Fboliviano-revoluciono-rendimiento-motores-80813.html&edit-text=)

I do not offend you,I am also interested in progress !
Here the nephew patent publication,for me also new,so I will not comment it !
http://www.google.com/patents/US20080030092 (http://www.google.com/patents/US20080030092)


If you see who did refered/cited the other work from this bolivian inventor you will not become angry or underestimated:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3368141 (https://www.google.com/patents/US3368141)
http://alt-sci.ru/en/wiki/Vortical_transformers (http://alt-sci.ru/en/wiki/Vortical_transformers)


Thank you for your interest and the links. Very interesting. Kind of takes this to a new level. It reminds me of another magnet assisted by an electromagnet motor ... I can't remember the name?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 22, 2016, 01:26:04 AM
 author=Erfinder link=topic=15307.msg492341#msg492341 date=1474473113]


Quote
Is this your best motor-generator concept?

Lol,no
Im just filling in time,waiting for AC's first presentation of his pulse motor that is going to kick my ass. Once he has presented the best he has,then i will deliver my final design.

Quote
Is this the best you have to offer on how one "can" deal with Lenz

Again-no.
I do not !deal! with Lenz--i encourage it  ;)
That is nothing more than a simple window motor-a motor that has little use,but fun to build.

Quote
I see this wave you are demonstrating and I see what I have always seen, I see what we are always shown, and I say to myself, this can't be all he has to offer.  I say that because I am no one in the eyes of those who speak with authority.  I have nothing they say....I beg the differ....I too have a wave, a wave that looks like a house, an H wave....My position here is the same as it was when I was talking about this with those who cheerlead the "window motor" as its inventor presents it.  I told them as I am telling you, you people don't see what he sees.  The message is wasted on you.  Your wave.....is not what we are after, and as cruel as this may sound, I am not trying to offend you, nor downplay your effort.  I am simply telling it like no one else will.

The H wave is nothing special,and is what we would expect to see. Mine just has a very large generating phase after the inductive spike,due to the rotor design being used-which in itself,is nothing special.

There was very little effort placed on this build,in fact,it was just a 2 hour project-yet to be completed.

Quote
You like my cheesy videos, you are going to love this cheesy photo....A video will follow.  Keep in mind, this is not my best.....this is me smelling the roses as I was strolling through the park one day.  I know..big talk for a fuzzy photo with no data....I do this on purpose.  Keep an eye out for the video, I will show you what a BS science understanding allows an umpa loompa to do with a properly engineered apparatus..

Not going to take a guess at what the scope shot is showing,as there are many devices,and many ways to produce such a trace. If i narrow my on time,and place the probe across the drive coil of my window motor,the trace would look much the same as the one you present.

Im not into the umpa loompa science--that is between you and EMJ  :D

Looking forward to your video.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 22, 2016, 04:30:43 AM

As Richard Nixon would say, "let me make one thing perfectly clear". So here I am not talking about COP, rather COST. For sake of argument I am not counting the 100 watts or so that the prime mover is drawing, rather, just the small increase in draw between load and no load.


I will call this 'my efficiency of induction'


For example, at 629 RPM the increased draw from no load to load was 2,4 watts. While the output was 1,25 watts (About 52 %)

In the video I have: 1440 RPM, an increase of 6 watts for an output of 4.7 watts (78 %)

And now the best part, with the increased pully ratio I was able to get up to 4843 RPM, BUT, at 3000 RPM the increase was 7.8 watts for an output of 9.97 watts!!!

Higher RPM's and this ratio started to drop, so around 3000 RPM is the sweet spot.

Here is a couple of scope shots... first, no load, second under load (probe set to X 10)

Ron



Hi Ron - Awesome!

If you plot the Magnetic Field in the Gap vs the Output, there may be a surprise there also... This, the WardForce Generator, is a very handy learning tool! The learning of the Induction aspects are awesome!!! This is not a new concept though!

The Rotor does see a reduced Drag at a certain point; Lenz's Law is reduced, as Ron is saying. This is not OU, but the Rotor does not see a 1:1, less losses, Drag Ratio from Lenz's Law.

Ron this is very helpful to all here, I hope they can see and understand what you’re explaining!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: allcanadian on September 22, 2016, 08:13:34 AM
Hey Brad
Quote
Im just filling in time,waiting for AC's first presentation of his pulse motor that is going to kick my ass. Once he has presented the best he has,then i will deliver my final design.


Your waiting on me?, I never knew nor dared to imagine such a thing... little old me?. I have many people waiting for me with supposed cheque books. I guess my problem, of which I have many, is that at some point along the line I just stopped caring about impressing other people. Maybe it's one of those things which comes with age...maybe it isn't.


My theory is I'm just a guy who knows a lot of shit and if you ask me a question I'm usually the guy with a workable answer. It was never hey look at my big words or hey look at my scope shot it was always... how do you work around the problem at hand to find a solution. So yes I will get around to showing my latest build however this afternoon one of my horses broke it's leg and we had to put her down. I loved that horse, an Arabian, and I'm going to have to bury her tomorrow by myself. So as you can imagine impressing some person I don't even know is the least of my concerns and in fact it always has been.


You want to impress someone...show me something I don't know, something I haven't built for myself in the last decade. Here is the deal Brad... when I show you something the whole fucking world is going to know and when I do it was never because I was trying to impress you or someone else it is because I care. If the impetus which drives us is not empathy then your just another asshole, it's that simple in my opinion.


AC
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 22, 2016, 11:17:47 AM



I am sorry to hear about your Horse AC!

It is sad, In a better place now!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 22, 2016, 12:07:11 PM
Hey Brad

Your waiting on me?, I never knew nor dared to imagine such a thing... little old me?. I have many people waiting for me with supposed cheque books. I guess my problem, of which I have many, is that at some point along the line I just stopped caring about impressing other people. Maybe it's one of those things which comes with age...maybe it isn't.


My theory is I'm just a guy who knows a lot of shit and if you ask me a question I'm usually the guy with a workable answer. It was never hey look at my big words or hey look at my scope shot it was always... how do you work around the problem at hand to find a solution. So yes I will get around to showing my latest build however this afternoon one of my horses broke it's leg and we had to put her down. I loved that horse, an Arabian, and I'm going to have to bury her tomorrow by myself. So as you can imagine impressing some person I don't even know is the least of my concerns and in fact it always has been.


You want to impress someone...show me something I don't know, something I haven't built for myself in the last decade. Here is the deal Brad... when I show you something the whole fucking world is going to know and when I do it was never because I was trying to impress you or someone else it is because I care. If the impetus which drives us is not empathy then your just another asshole, it's that simple in my opinion.


AC

Well,must have been the day to put down our beloved pet's,as we had to put one of our dogs down today--such is life :(

But i must say,i am confused about the rest of your post,as this was your idea of a friendly little comp.
To quote post 264
I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition however I have a different set of rules.
1) The motor/generator can have any configuration you want however to keep it simple the device should be no larger than let's say 20 lb.
2)The entire device as well as all associated circuitry must be clearly visible.
3)My favorite... No power supplies of any kind are allowed and the device must be electrically dead in every sense of the word at the start. However we are allowed to spin up the device by hand at the start to any RPM we can muster.
4)A storage capacitor of a value to be determined is allowed to store the output from the device which will also be the only electrical input allowed to the device. The capacitor will be at zero voltage at the start of the test.
5)A DMM or preferably an oscilloscope will show the voltage on the capacitor during the entire duration of the test.
You see this is where all the BS stops and either the capacitor voltage rises or it falls. The rate at which the capacitor voltage rises or falls determines the total efficiency. If the initial spin up at the start cannot generate enough power to charge the capacitor to operate the device and maintain it then your hooped.

And post 493
All in all I like your video even if I'm going to kick your ass but that does not mean we cannot be friends. Competition is good so long as we are moving in the right direction and this direction benefits others.

One minute you are going to show us how it's all done,and the next,your not interested in the very competition you set the rules for--you no longer wish to show us how it's done ???

Oh well-what ever.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 22, 2016, 05:28:57 PM


Hi Ron - Awesome!

If you plot the Magnetic Field in the Gap vs the Output, there may be a surprise there also... This, the WardForce Generator, is a very handy learning tool! The learning of the Induction aspects are awesome!!! This is not a new concept though!

The Rotor does see a reduced Drag at a certain point; Lenz's Law is reduced, as Ron is saying. This is not OU, but the Rotor does not see a 1:1, less losses, Drag Ratio from Lenz's Law.

Ron this is very helpful to all here, I hope they can see and understand what you’re explaining!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris, even at 81 I still occasionally run on ego... and that was a big boost, LOL


Love those old pics! them old boys knew their stuff.


A couple of clarifications for those following this. I mentioned rotor cogging at the gap... well that was without the end bars and the cogging "nearly" went away with end bars in place, duh. Next, I an only using one end bar (core) as with two, the flux strength is neatly divided in half so it is my suspicion that I can get max output from one coil as with two coils in parallel??? any ideas?

Will dig out the Gauss meter today...

Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 22, 2016, 10:45:06 PM
Well,must have been the day to put down our beloved pet's,as we had to put one of our dogs down today--such is life :(

But i must say,i am confused about the rest of your post,as this was your idea of a friendly little comp.
To quote post 264
I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition however I have a different set of rules.
1) The motor/generator can have any configuration you want however to keep it simple the device should be no larger than let's say 20 lb.
2)The entire device as well as all associated circuitry must be clearly visible.
3)My favorite... No power supplies of any kind are allowed and the device must be electrically dead in every sense of the word at the start. However we are allowed to spin up the device by hand at the start to any RPM we can muster.
4)A storage capacitor of a value to be determined is allowed to store the output from the device which will also be the only electrical input allowed to the device. The capacitor will be at zero voltage at the start of the test.
5)A DMM or preferably an oscilloscope will show the voltage on the capacitor during the entire duration of the test.
You see this is where all the BS stops and either the capacitor voltage rises or it falls. The rate at which the capacitor voltage rises or falls determines the total efficiency. If the initial spin up at the start cannot generate enough power to charge the capacitor to operate the device and maintain it then your hooped.

And post 493
All in all I like your video even if I'm going to kick your ass but that does not mean we cannot be friends. Competition is good so long as we are moving in the right direction and this direction benefits others.

One minute you are going to show us how it's all done,and the next,your not interested in the very competition you set the rules for--you no longer wish to show us how it's done ???

Oh well-what ever.


Brad



Brad, sorry to hear about your Dog. Its sad when your loved ones pass.

On another note, I am up for a Motor Build off, you start the Thread with rules... Or if you like I can throw up a dedicated site with access for all keen?

My motor skills are very poor! I will not win!!! But its still going to be fun ;)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 22, 2016, 10:58:40 PM

Thanks Chris, even at 81 I still occasionally run on ego... and that was a big boost, LOL


Love those old pics! them old boys knew their stuff.


A couple of clarifications for those following this. I mentioned rotor cogging at the gap... well that was without the end bars and the cogging "nearly" went away with end bars in place, duh. Next, I an only using one end bar (core) as with two, the flux strength is neatly divided in half so it is my suspicion that I can get max output from one coil as with two coils in parallel??? any ideas?

Will dig out the Gauss meter today...

Ron



Hey Ron - Mate, good on you!!! We are all welcome to a little Ego Boost from time to time!!! ;)

Yes Sir! Those old Dynamo's, some 100+ Years old are just works of Art! The Design, the craftsmanship, the care taken on the little fittings, they are beautiful machines! Below, my most favorite of all:

With the second End Bar, if you have one, it may be worth fitting, run the experiments.

You have build a beautiful machine Ron!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 23, 2016, 12:30:36 AM


I have put a basic site up if anyone is keen to enter? Register if you want to Enter!!!

URL: http://buildoff.hyiq.org/ (http://buildoff.hyiq.org/)

Its only new, DNS may be propagating still, so some may not be able to visit just yet, keep trying, it will work as soon as DNS is done.

Please let me know and we can add/remove information as needed.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: barbosi on September 23, 2016, 01:20:59 AM
Some have expressed their wish to learn. I don't think learning should be confused with memorization process, and it's rather based on comprehension. And comprehension comes after individual exploration at great depths, as result of individual particular questions one may ask him/herself.

Depending on individual readiness in exploring the electricity, as I consider a “student” myself, I dare to share with you the others a condensed  presentation of what we have missed. These information are not contained in any mainstream books, there are no formulas nor take-out quotes.

As we are on our own, we can become inventors or continue as spectacular mediocrities, the only critic being our own work - a novelty or a copycat (with all its variations).

The following links some of you may find interesting or boring, intriguing or crazy, approachable or impossible, "the missing link" or "missed my time", however I wish you all the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KooPsEE7E-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9S3ikiL3Ow

Regards
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 23, 2016, 03:47:51 AM
He guys. An off topic question

Im discussing the cap to cap deal with a youtuber. 

Now in previous discussions on this, if I remember correctly, when we do the identical cap to cap deal, we lose 50% of the total energy. Correct?

Well back then I believe that when we change the values of the caps, one larger and one smaller, or even the other way around, that the total energy outcome becomes less than the 50% loss. Correct?   

Now this guy brought up something that was even stranger to me.

He said he did the experiment using a 350F cap at 12v, and did the cap to cap with an 82uf cap and ended up with 11.9v in each. Here is the strange part for me...

I did the calculations. As I can see it, we did lose less than 50% as shown below. He claims we still lost 50% total, but he is wrong there, but.....

350f  12v  25200J

350F  11.9v  24781J    and the 82uf cap at 11.9v was .0058J

So we didnt lose 50% in total, but it seems we lost a tremendous amount in the transfer.

In the 350F cap we lost 419J and only ended up with 5.8mJ or .0058J  :o   What the heck????

We lost a lot in that transfer, did we not?? Im not talking about total losses as in we lost half of the 25200J, but the loss in the transfer and what we ended up with in the 82uf cap seems like a very huge cost to charge that little cap.  Am I doing something wrong here?? I used 2 different online calculators and the same results.

So now Im not concerned with the 50% loss any longer with identical caps.

We were arguing about the 50%, and I described the same example using 1 large cap and on small cap. Yes, we did not lose 50% in total. But this what Im saying above seems a bit more shocking considering.   The efficiency of what we used from the larger cap compared to what we ended up with in the smaller cap dwarfs the idea of the original 50% loss subject. To me anyway, so far.

Has anyone dealt with this situation before? Or am I just freaking out over nothing??

Mags :o
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: MileHigh on September 23, 2016, 04:55:19 AM
Don't use an online calculator, use your own brains to figure it out.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 23, 2016, 06:32:12 AM

Thank you for your interest and the links. Very interesting. Kind of takes this to a new level. It reminds me of another magnet assisted by an electromagnet motor ... I can't remember the name?


Ron

Was that the one called-gap power?--or something like that.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 23, 2016, 05:04:58 PM

Was that the one called-gap power?--or something like that.

Brad


Nope, it was more like the parallel path thing where the magnet and the electromagnet came on together for two times (four times?) force.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 23, 2016, 05:18:52 PM
Flynn brothers developments (un-)publicated ,known and publicated from their "Magnetic Revolution" time :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=5710493A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19980120&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=5710493A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19980120&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


sortiment:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=magnetic&IN=charles+flynn&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=magnetic&IN=charles+flynn&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 23, 2016, 08:09:04 PM





Ward Farce update...


Same format as before, (being just the difference between loaded and unloaded) Only this is with two coils in series


2243 RPM, in 9.8 watts, out 9 watts


3143 RPM, in 8.6 watts, out 14.28 watts (Keeping in mind that the total input draw was 134.75 watts to make 14.28!!!)



4837 RPM, in 23.3 watts, out 25.7 watts


couple of pics, coils just scramble wound as recycled wire, one join in first coil, two joins in second coil


Second pic, bench clutter... running out of room, lol


Ron





Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 23, 2016, 09:42:44 PM
Hello i_ron,
how much flexibility are you giving to this machine ?
The rotor cw rotating ? ccw rotating ? cw or ccw rotating ? data results ?
better/same/worser ?
The coils: up-down input,down-up input ? data results ? better/same/worser ?
The rotor vertical,horizontal ?


Sincerely
              OCWL
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Magluvin on September 23, 2016, 11:08:00 PM
I believe this is well documented.

0.5CV^2 sets up a curve both for charging and discharging,, so when you take the energy from a cap at a higher Voltage and discharge 1 Coulomb of charge carriers,, that will drop that cap 1V and raise a discharged cap up 1V,, those 2 energy values are not the same.

The cap charges up in Voltage by charge carriers displaced,, 1F= 1C per 1V,, so there is a volt to charge carrier relationship and that is what the capacitance value is.

Hadnt gone into this that far before.  Maybe that is what is meant by 'dont kill the dipole'?  Never got a good explanation on that before either. Possibly meaning to not take much from a charged cap while its being fed input? Dunno.

Mags
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 23, 2016, 11:32:28 PM



Hi Ron - Thanks for sharing your results. Again your build is excellent!

Do you know if your Cores are saturating at any point?

As you say, your Input is: 134.75Total

However the Shaft Torque Efficency is very much different under different load conditions:

   2243 RPM: 9Watts / 9.8Watts = 0.918Times
   3143 RPM: 14.28Watts / 8.6Watts = 1.660Times
   4837 RPM: 25.7Watts / 23.3Watts = 1.103Times

So, we see that the Time Rate of Change does matter, but we see that there is an optimium freguency or operation: n = f (2 / p) 60

where

n = shaft rotation speed (rev/min, rpm)
f = frequency (Hz, cycles/sec, 1/s)
p = number of poles

Rearranging, we get: f =  n / (2 / p) / 60 = Optimium Frequency of operation = 52.3833333333333 Hertz

Which is interesting! Maybe beyond this point the Core is being saturated? Or is getting close?
   
Ron, your work is excellent!!! Thanks!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 23, 2016, 11:43:58 PM
Hello i_ron,
how much flexibility are you giving to this machine ?
snip
Sincerely
              OCWL



Hi OCWL,


I find the RV is a very accurate way to see exactly how much it takes to drive different devices.


Here, in this case, the RV just by itself draws 43 watts.


With the device connected and with no load on the device it draws 105 watts.


So this is 62.6 watts just to drive this device. I think that is the Achilles heel, the fly in the ointment, the finally for further development.


Thanks for your interest and suggestions, 


Ron

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 23, 2016, 11:53:44 PM


Hi Ron - Thanks for sharing your results. Again your build is excellent!

Do you know if your Cores are saturating at any point?

As you say, your Input is: 134.75Total

However the Shaft Torque Efficency is very much different under different load conditions:

   2243 RPM: 9Watts / 9.8Watts = 0.918Times
   3143 RPM: 14.28Watts / 8.6Watts = 1.660Times
   4837 RPM: 25.7Watts / 23.3Watts = 1.103Times

So, we see that the Time Rate of Change does matter, but we see that there is an optimium freguency or operation: n = f (2 / p) 60

where

n = shaft rotation speed (rev/min, rpm)
f = frequency (Hz, cycles/sec, 1/s)
p = number of poles

Rearranging, we get: f =  n / (2 / p) / 60 = Optimium Frequency of operation = 52.3833333333333 Hertz

Which is interesting! Maybe beyond this point the Core is being saturated? Or is getting close?
   
Ron, your work is excellent!!! Thanks!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris!  interesting numbers for sure. Math is not one of my strong points so I am amazed at how you do this!!


Now to post mortem this, I was wondering if the flux path length through the laminates was the critical factor? Is this the reason Watson used such long cores in that famous machine???

Anyway, searching for what we learned here and you seem to be able to present this in a very understandable manner... so over to you.

Ron


Edit: saturation is another topic I am not too sure on. With one core locked on with the rotor vertical is a real tug 'o war to get it off, with two cores in place I can just twist one off so easily.... the area is 3/4 X 1 inch so fairly reasonable, that and it shows a square wave at all these RPM's so nothing untoward seems to be taking place?
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 12:10:07 AM

Thanks Chris!  interesting numbers for sure. Math is not one of my strong points so I am amazed at how you do this!!


Now to post mortem this, I was wondering if the flux path length through the laminates was the critical factor? Is this the reason Watson used such long cores in that famous machine???


Anyway, searching for what we learned here and you seem to be able to present this in a very understandable manner... so over to you.


Ron



Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 12:22:05 AM



Hi Ron - Re Saturation, this is where the Core Material can no longer accept more Magnetic Flux (B).

Like a Sponge can only accept a volume of Water before more Water spills out everywhere, the Core Material will present an easier path for the Flux, measured as the Permeability (μ), but the upper limit of this easier path, is considered to be Saturated. No more Flux cant travel this easier Path because there is no more room, so the Flux Spills out.

This is a very easy experiment to learn about Saturation and the BH Curve: http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/non-linear_transformer_behavior.htm


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 24, 2016, 12:50:27 AM
It looks like a RV,but it is not a conventional motor-generator,it is a controle-device operated generator
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldwide.espacenet.com%2FpublicationDetails%2Fbiblio%3FDB%3DEPODOC%26II%3D5%26ND%3D3%26adjacent%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_EP%26FT%3DD%26date%3D19790215%26CC%3DDE%26NR%3D2733719A1%26KC%3DA1&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldwide.espacenet.com%2FpublicationDetails%2Fbiblio%3FDB%3DEPODOC%26II%3D5%26ND%3D3%26adjacent%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_EP%26FT%3DD%26date%3D19790215%26CC%3DDE%26NR%3D2733719A1%26KC%3DA1&edit-text=)


The controle device,Standart 2016,I would equip with this Tesla-Unit force enhancer :
http://www.google.com/patents/US8514047
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 24, 2016, 01:55:46 AM


Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 24, 2016, 02:07:32 AM
                         temperature decrease/ tension and frequency behaviour ? linear or progressive ?
                         internal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 24, 2016, 04:43:45 AM


Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


 and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 24, 2016, 04:55:49 AM


Hi Ron -

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 24, 2016, 05:06:45 AM
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.

Brad


Thanks Brad, will look into that in the AM


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 06:02:20 AM
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.


Brad



I am a poorly educated Motor Nube, but I would tend to agree, even with my Nube experience!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 06:13:01 AM

Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


 and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron



Hey Ron, I completely agree with your findings here! I saw the same thing! Time Rate of Change, of the Magnetic Field is the key, if the Magnetic Field (B) is lower in Value the EMF will be less.

MMF, the Magnetomotive Force is the Current through Windings (N), F = NI, which is the Magnetising Force back on the Core, in this case, this is Lenz's Law, EMF is 180 degrees out of phase, and so, the MMF will also be 180 degrees out of phase, but we redirect it with this configuration.

We could do some Math here and look at figures, but I have had a Beer, so it would not look pretty, so maybe later?

But, yes youre seeing consistant agreement with my early experiments. I just think this working together is awesome!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 06:20:41 AM

Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron



Hi Ron, again consistant with my replication. The drag, normal to most all generators is Lenz's Law, as we know, but when the point is reached, where the Flux completes the Path of least reluctance, the Rotor Rides the Magnetic Field, because they are in Quadrature, and also confined to a small space.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 07:08:36 AM



Backyard Build Off Challange 2016 - Brad's Build Off Challange...

Not as much Interest as I thought? Get in to take the prize, show your skills, Most Thumbs up wins...

URL: http://buildoff.hyiq.org/ (http://buildoff.hyiq.org/)

Registrations close on a date soon so be in to win!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 24, 2016, 08:52:00 AM
TESLA + Hector RT or TV : TESLA RTV   ,rotatory -translatory-linear, Peter Drucker "In search of Excellence" and other
                                                In search of the "ideal dynamo",
                                                           Linear Generator


Not to read   Tesla,studying and becoming
Not to read Hector,studying and becoming
Only one "thing" not :
To read the restaurant menu card,studying and please for becoming a steak ( become : english: to get anglo-saxonic:"to will be" or wise-men-(con)versa(tion)  8)  aehh,pardon,I mean vice-versa ;D  ,BS,I think this Feng-Shui does not becomes me ;) )


Who invented the "ideal dynamo" and trying this the "real dynamo" ,in german "Selbstlaeufer" ?
Who invented the "auto-mobile starter" ,auto=Selbst=self, ?
https://www.google.pt/search?q=anlasser+funktion&client=opera&hs=X1O&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=668&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiT-OS8vKfPAhWGWxQKHes0CJsQsAQIMA (https://www.google.pt/search?q=anlasser+funktion&client=opera&hs=X1O&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=668&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiT-OS8vKfPAhWGWxQKHes0CJsQsAQIMA)


Who invented the "ideal capacitor" and trying this the "real capacitor" ? 
Lord kelvin: comparing a spring (not a temporal saison period) with the capacitor behaviour !? Thermo-cryo-dynamic


                                   electro-static capacitor and/or magneto-static-capacitor ?
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldwide.espacenet.com%2FpublicationDetails%2Fbiblio%3FDB%3DEPODOC%26II%3D5%26ND%3D3%26adjacent%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_EP%26FT%3DD%26date%3D19790215%26CC%3DDE%26NR%3D2733719A1%26KC%3DA1&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldwide.espacenet.com%2FpublicationDetails%2Fbiblio%3FDB%3DEPODOC%26II%3D5%26ND%3D3%26adjacent%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_EP%26FT%3DD%26date%3D19790215%26CC%3DDE%26NR%3D2733719A1%26KC%3DA1&edit-text=)
                                The Mukherjee "controle element/Steuerelement" ? Elementar~ important ?


The above calculation is only an approximate calculation, in the small losses, such as copper losses are not taken into account in the armature of the electrical equipment, energy losses for rotating the inertia around the machine with the required angular velocity and the like.The bill is intended to show that a large amount of energy can be obtained by only a fraction of the output power, but not some form of external energy is consumed.


By supplying the pure output energy of the inventive generator for the electrical device, the force generated in the system can be used to drive other, coupled with the wave machine. Since no fuel is consumed, all types of vehicles and machines with this generator can be operated.


                                                                   "eddy currents brake"and the "kinetic force"
                                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 24, 2016, 07:30:40 PM
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.

Brad


Well Brad, I think we can scratch that one too.

Cool in the basement as the heating season hasn't started yet.

Starting temperature was 18 degrees C

After a 10 minute run...23 degrees C

After a 10 minute run under load...24 degrees C

The 50 ohm load resistor was at 72 degrees C after the 10 minute load run!

Ron


edit: the 23 C was fairly stable after 5 or 6 minutes. The scooter motor is not as efficient as the RV and was drawing 110 watts for the no load part of this test.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 24, 2016, 08:59:05 PM





Embarrassment time, dyslexia strikes again. The impressive second reading is an error on my part.

Correction for post #678

The millivolt numbers are correct in my notes, 11.6 mV under load and 10.3 mV no load. I was just dividing by two to get the amps and a very simple mistake occurred on the 11.6... I had written down 5.5 instead of 5.8 and subtracted 5.15 from it. What a difference that makes... from 8.575 watts to 16.25 watts! Sorry about that.


So corrected, the number two reading is 14.28 Watts out for a cost of 16,25 watts in


The best reading today is at 2800 RPM, 12.03 watts out for a cost of 12.5 watts in


The RV draw numbers are correct


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: ramset on September 24, 2016, 09:53:56 PM
ǝɯᴉʇ ǝɥʇ llɐ ǝɯ oʇ suǝddɐɥ lɐǝp ƃᴉq ɐ ɥɔns ʇoN

I meant
Not such a big deal, happens to me all the time....


 :o
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 24, 2016, 10:21:50 PM




Embarrassment time, dyslexia strikes again. The impressive second reading is an error on my part.

Correction for post #678

The millivolt numbers are correct in my notes, 11.6 mV under load and 10.3 mV no load. I was just dividing by two to get the amps and a very simple mistake occurred on the 11.6... I had written down 5.5 instead of 5.8 and subtracted 5.15 from it. What a difference that makes... from 8.575 watts to 16.25 watts! Sorry about that.


So corrected, the number two reading is 14.28 Watts out for a cost of 16,25 watts in


The best reading today is at 2800 RPM, 12.03 watts out for a cost of 12.5 watts in


The RV draw numbers are correct


Ron



Hey Ron, no problem, it happens.

Too much Coffee maybe?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


P.S: Due to lack of interest, I am currently seeing no point doing the Build Off Challange - Seems that we have seen soo much talk, but as always see no Action - Whats going on?






Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 25, 2016, 01:38:43 AM

Too much Coffee maybe?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Nah, just short term memory is very very short term, LOL ...that and every now and then I transpose numbers.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 25, 2016, 02:32:26 AM

Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron

Quote: By Lenz's law, an eddy current creates a magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field that created it, and thus eddy currents react back on the source of the magnetic field. For example, a nearby conductive surface will exert a drag force on a moving magnet that opposes its motion, due to eddy currents induced in the surface by the moving magnetic field. This effect is employed in eddy current brakes which are used to stop rotating power tools quickly when they are turned off. The current flowing through the resistance of the conductor also dissipates energy as heat in the material. Thus eddy currents are a cause of energy loss in alternating current (AC) inductors, transformers, electric motors and generators, and other AC machinery, requiring special construction such as laminated magnetic cores or ferrite cores to minimize them. Eddy currents are also used to heat objects in induction heating furnaces and equipment, and to detect cracks and flaws in metal parts using eddy-current testing instruments.

Ron
Here is something you might like to try to see if the drag without load is lenz related.
Is it possible to replace the magnets with small steel pieces/or one steel rod,that are the same shape and size as the magnet's,and then run the DUT,and see if the same amount of load/drag is placed on the prime mover as if there were magnets in the rotor?.

I see you mentioned that you did the temperature test,and the results were opposite to what i thought they would be--and this is interesting  ???
Perhaps i should put aside my solenoid engine build for a while,and finish my setup like yours,and join in on the search for the !hidden! drag ,when no load is being drawn from the generator.


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 25, 2016, 02:52:51 AM
@ Ron

So i have just been watching some of the video's on your channel,during my morning coffee--and wow.
You have some excellent builds on there Ron,and craftsmanship i have only seen once before by another.

A video from a channel you might enjoy,by a man that shares your skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVe3zgmxoA


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 25, 2016, 03:11:14 AM
@ Ron

So i have just been watching some of the video's on your channel,during my morning coffee--and wow.
You have some excellent builds on there Ron,and craftsmanship i have only seen once before by another.

A video from a channel you might enjoy,by a man that shares your skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVe3zgmxoA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgVe3zgmxoA)


Brad


Thanks Brad,


Yes, he is good, I haven't followed his work as much as I have Luc's, but they both suffer from the same malady, videos that are too long.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 25, 2016, 03:23:50 AM

Ron
Here is something you might like to try to see if the drag without load is lenz related.
Is it possible to replace the magnets with small steel pieces/or one steel rod,that are the same shape and size as the magnet's,and then run the DUT,and see if the same amount of load/drag is placed on the prime mover as if there were magnets in the rotor?.

I see you mentioned that you did the temperature test,and the results were opposite to what i thought they would be--and this is interesting  ???
Perhaps i should put aside my solenoid engine build for a while,and finish my setup like yours,and join in on the search for the !hidden! drag ,when no load is being drawn from the generator.

Brad


I think we should have been warned when Ward was shown diving his models with one and two horse motors. That and we ignored the fading of the Butch team. Still. as Chris says, it is a good learning tool.


And holy moly --- it actually got the group focused on a, "lenz free generator", for several pages!


And some good laughs... such as the one posted by ramset  ;D


What one shall we do next?


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 25, 2016, 04:03:54 AM

I think we should have been warned when Ward was shown diving his models with one and two horse motors. That and we ignored the fading of the Butch team. Still. as Chris says, it is a good learning tool.


And holy moly --- it actually got the group focused on a, "lenz free generator", for several pages!


And some good laughs... such as the one posted by ramset  ;D


What one shall we do next?


Ron




Hey Ron - I agree, you’re the only one here that has held the attention of others for more than one page - Congratulations!

Yes, I agree, did I say: "Not OU but a good learning tool"? Something like that. I really do agree, there is a lot to learn in such a small simple and cheap device.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 25, 2016, 04:56:52 AM


Maybe I might be able to help the thread with some of my work? Please read my Warning!!!

Please See: Chris's Build Entry (http://buildoff.hyiq.org/thread/chris-s-build-entry/)

I am a Nube when it comes to motors, I know basic stuff and thats really it!!! I am here to learn some and for fun only.

I have some progress posted. More pictures than words.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 25, 2016, 09:21:14 AM

Seriously, is this the best you have to offer, a copy paste of Brad's work?  Why in the hell is this a "Brad Challenge"?  "The challenge" was between Brad and AC. You have extended the challenge to everyone.....not wise.  It's clear you ignored my suggestion, namely to present one's best (ignored by Brad...) motor generator concept.  This is non threatening, and has nothing to do with a competition, this is us placing our cards face up on the table, this is us seeing one another, revealing where we are, why we are there, and where we are headed.  I find it fascinating that you speak with such authority, and all of a sudden you are a "noob"......typical.......  Present your own idea about your own approach to a motor-generator. Demonstrate that you are not only well versed in the laws, but you also know  how to apply them practically. 


It's good of you to admit that you are a noob....says a lot about you, and I respect this.  I am not a noob in the area of motor-generators.  This discussion belongs here on this forum, I recommend you start a new thread, you could call it, "Your BEST motor-generator concept".  It should be modeled after the opening video of the pulse motor build off. Participants submit a 5 minute video, posting the link to the video in the thread, that's it.  What you do with your 5 minutes is on you, at the end of the time period, it is my hope that all understand why this is your best.  The submission thread is for entry videos only, no discussions should take place there ever! 


If a discussion is desired about a particular idea, the individual responsible for presenting said idea should start a thread, and be given total moderator control, modeled after the bench concept on the OUR forum.  No one has the right to start a discussion about someone else's idea.  There should be no time limit on submissions, this is not a competition.  Only one submission per user, remember this is about you presenting your best. 



After a skim read, I wasnt going to respond to your post, so I shall Not ;)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on September 25, 2016, 09:55:16 AM
Hi Ron , I didn't pay much attention to your ward generator, I 'm on limited data.

What one shall we do next?


Ron
The reason is, I don't like cores in my coils.
It's fine to use steel to concentrate the magnetic field of a PM rotor but, using it to intensify the field in a coil is a waste IMHO.
The reason I say this is ,from what I've seen is that increase in output is offset by the required increase in input or the increase in motoring ability is offset by the drag .
Something along the lines of core-less coils for motoring and generating at the same time,would be interesting.
Thanks artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 10:12:18 AM
Hi Ron , I didn't pay much attention to your ward generator, I 'm on limited data.

What one shall we do next?


Ron
The reason is, I don't like cores in my coils.
It's fine to use steel to concentrate the magnetic field of a PM rotor but, using it to intensify the field in a coil is a waste IMHO.
The reason I say this is ,from what I've seen is that increase in output is offset by the required increase in input or the increase in motoring ability is offset by the drag .
Something along the lines of core-less coils for motoring and generating at the same time,would be interesting.
Thanks artv


Under permanent energy load or under moderated pulse periods ?
rotor/stator: pm/pm pm/em em/pm em-pm/pm ...em-pm/em-pm  magnetic force source : pm=permanent magnet em=electromagnet

 You think that air-core coils equipped machines does have a better effficiency ,caused by actio-reactio time ,or why ?
Is the field force intensifying solid core reacting as same when instead cooper coils this will be encored by cooper-alu or only aluminium coils ? Aluminium: eddy currents ! Non ferrit machine,but by magnetic force acting ? http://rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm (http://rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: shylo on September 25, 2016, 10:34:15 AM
Hi lanca, I only motor the coils once per revolution, mimicking Mr hand.
artv
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 11:14:40 AM
Hi lanca, I only motor the coils once per revolution, mimicking Mr hand.
artv


A really ashamed  :-[  question,could you descript for me the programming of this "operation=act" ? I only know about "winding coils" !

Are you revoluting your motor by hand,handykraft,mechanical device,not an e-motor more a kinetical/mechanical transmissor /transmitter ?
Thank you for a more imaginable answer ! :)


With my kindest regard and a fine Sunday (with/-out family,in peace ::) )
                                                                                                                   OCWL 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 11:25:36 AM

That is exactly what one should have!


Regards


And by a common shaft ? Motor=generator ? the dynamo principle ! ( 8)  Each one becomes MrDynamo or MrsDynamo, core-and coil-less)
                                                               :)   That is exactly what one should be !  :)
                                                            Decelerating the modern society life velocity
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 11:35:35 AM

What I am saying is the motor coil is at the same time a generator coil.  There is only one shaft, and this case only one coil which is simultaneously motoring and generating an electrical output.


Regards


                         What I am saying is the motor coil is at the same time a generator coil.
    Hmm,complicated,really complicated : but let me give you a publicated device as an non-moving (relatively) transformer :
                                                                             coaxial
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19941208&CC=DE&NR=4318270A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19941208&CC=DE&NR=4318270A1&KC=A1)


In your world a coil is selfoperating ?
Assuming one wants to do things the right way, a coil which simultaneously motors and generates is the only way forward.
                                              counter-streaming,cold-/hot flow exchanger


I can wrap a hard/air core with two coils , but 1 coil(or foil do you mean ?) with permanent, the two diametral physical function,transformation is for me unknown !


Erfinder ,what has been first : chicken or egg ?
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 11:50:12 AM
I am open to become me inspired by your vision of progress !
Impossibilities making possible is nice,using this is nicer !


https://www.google.pt/search?q=barbat+motor+generator&client=opera&hs=lin&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYp4-RnqrPAhVGyRQKHadBBjEQsAQIHw&biw=1366&bih=668 (https://www.google.pt/search?q=barbat+motor+generator&client=opera&hs=lin&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYp4-RnqrPAhVGyRQKHadBBjEQsAQIHw&biw=1366&bih=668)

and finally: http://rexresearch.com/hooper/horizon.htm
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
Fine,similar ? http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=457.0;attach=2786 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=457.0;attach=2786)


 8)  From my "I" to your "I"  ;)


What is about the coil material ? An-/organical ?
The coil :doted,or like a pepermint stick https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTvF4bsjF3ikP9-RdKWpKxUbvP4y0F-U6r5hYjgV2n5mQ3d6CS3 (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTvF4bsjF3ikP9-RdKWpKxUbvP4y0F-U6r5hYjgV2n5mQ3d6CS3) ,
or bi-/multicolored toothpaste
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY7fGefcbPc4fGNblESrj1-6OghzHBRneD17ccr6HTh1zcl7UoYKISJQTl (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY7fGefcbPc4fGNblESrj1-6OghzHBRneD17ccr6HTh1zcl7UoYKISJQTl) ?
a coiled graphene bi-/multi planar array ? multi-junction


induction and induc.... function : 2 in1


Erfinder : Finder/Finder and the  Fundus and the Fundament ,Er=he Sie=she  Siefinder :) ,Pardon-moi,Sie Finder,Sie ! But it does not mean,translated : she finder ,she !
                               It has to be transducted:              You finder,You !

                                                                      Hirarchie
                                            Nomen,Names and Title and Rank/Rang
                               1.,2.,3. person singularis + X : majestatis  ma(g)ister : Mestre,Meister,Master
                               1.,2.,3. person pluralis     + X : majestatis 

Erfinder,a german expression, in angelo-saxonico,shortly "english"
co-expression, verbum: inventare to invent ,the inventor

German description about "nature creation"-reengineering https://www.google.pt/search?client=opera&q=dna+replikation&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 (https://www.google.pt/search?client=opera&q=dna+replikation&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)


                                          it will become a wi-fi device

                                Sillylogic based by Fuzzylogic   Neurologic tool
                                                          hard and soft
                                                            (be-)ware


             1.,2.,3.Kind         you,You,(YOU: internal conversion,sphere intimus)
                                         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq6eGCXXP8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq6eGCXXP8)


                 notare,remarcare : receiving,tuning,amplyfing,equalizing

So that it's clear, I have tested what I am suggesting, and am completely satisfied with the results I get with my apparatus.  I know exactly what "I" want, and build accordingly.  [/size]


I reed and noticed your points.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 03:05:42 PM

Repe(a)ting (based:repetere):So that it's clear, I have tested what I am suggesting, and am completely satisfied with the results I get with my apparatus.  I know exactly what "I" want, and build accordingly.


                                 "Clear" is your open -disclosed/discovered- statement !                                                                        Your suggest ? The multifunctional coil ? It is unclear !
                                 "...... I know ...."  Do you want to patent it,your "Erfindung" ?


"English" is neither my father nor mother language but I want to try to understand you ,by your question,comments and answers !


I do not really think  ::) that this offered information and technical method of energy harvesting and conversion is new and unused.There are worldwide sufficient genuine scientists which are working in this physics "house-appartment".
This Info has got +/- 20 years time-lag.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 03:19:50 PM
I hope that I do not incommodate you and this is not my intention !


What you will do is something like a "wrapped nantenna" creating , as channel ,for the RF-spectrum.
EM makes part from RF.


Have a fine Sunday
                              OCWL
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 25, 2016, 03:34:45 PM

What I am saying is the motor coil is at the same time a generator coil.  There is only one shaft, and this case only one coil which is simultaneously motoring and generating an electrical output.  Assuming one wants to do things the right way, a coil which simultaneously motors and generates is the only way forward.

Regards


Does the simultaneous generating/motoring effect that you've observed happen to have anything to do with the space angle of the rotor?  In other words, due to the inductive reactance of the coil windings, the MMF lags the actual space position (TDC, etc) of the magnets in the rotor.  If the speed of the rotor and inductive reactance of the coils high enough, theoretically the rotor could find itself positioned closer to the next pole piece in rotation while the coil on the last pole projection is still building up current due to XL.  If the next pole piece has a polarity opposite of the previous pole, the rotor would be sucked FORWARD in and ADDITIVE manor, accelerating the rotor while also generating.


Thanks


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 03:37:47 PM
Thank you,Erfinder, #729 (not 728; Sorry me !) ,this answer correlated the opinion about your first answer ,our correspondence related !


THz:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=DD&NR=287597A5&KC=A5&FT=D&ND=3&date=19910228&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=DD&NR=287597A5&KC=A5&FT=D&ND=3&date=19910228&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


internal cited :  DD286012 Elektronengas-Kreislauf  Plasma-Cycle/circuit
http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2014/12/04/compact-fluorescent-fusion/ (http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2014/12/04/compact-fluorescent-fusion/)
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/184899/difference-between-fusion-plasma-and-fluorescent-lamp-plasmas (http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/184899/difference-between-fusion-plasma-and-fluorescent-lamp-plasmas)


But now is really enough
                                      B"I"-B"I"
                                                    OCWL


p.s.:        I am here, the world is of no interest to me.
                Mourinho: Special One
                Klopp:       Normal One
                Erfinder                  One,more or less 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 25, 2016, 04:06:21 PM

No. 




I could demonstrate the exact same thing in a machine designed to be driven at TDC, and with that being said, I regret to say again...no.




Do you see where your thinking is?  It is totally entangled in the maze of the inductive reactive.  Consider what it would take to transition a predominantly inductive reactive system, into a predominantly capacitive reactive system.  The character of your apparatus must change from dominant XL or opposition to change in flux or current to dominant XC or opposition to change in voltage.


Regards


Its not totally entangled in inductive reactance.  I spoke with Eric Dollard long enough to realize the importance of its conjugate XC in all electrical systems..  My mind was there because of how Jim Murray described some of this phenomena in one of his presentations.


So this added capacitance.  In your devices, is it derived from multifilar coil configurations?  Or is it a lumped capacitance placed outside of the coil somewhere?


Thanks


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 04:13:09 PM

                             an old/eld motor/notor technique (2D)
http://media3.news.ch/news/fb/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg (http://media3.news.ch/news/fb/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg)


                            3/4D and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolamite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolamite)


                          converting to an industrial mass-produceable device

                 http://csnetwork.eu/livingmachines/conf2015/%5BLM2016%5D

                            ( photo/phono-synthese "engine" farming )


                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanism

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 25, 2016, 05:00:44 PM

You think a conversation with one with knowledge on the subject will give the necessary insight for engineering that which is said to be impossible?  Especially when said individual has no interest in the direction of research that occupies the minds of all who would shower him with senseless questions if they were given the opportunity. 



Lol, no not really.  But it did give me what I feel is a pretty good BS sniffer and some good direction to follow.  I will find that for which I am looking, in time.


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 25, 2016, 06:03:11 PM

Run    -  Combine XL and XC dominant circuits.

Regards


Does combining these two come about in some active form of switching in the circuit? 


Thanks
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 08:30:17 PM
                                http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/scalar.html (http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/scalar.html)
                                http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/kr20140011732a.jpg (http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/kr20140011732a.jpg)
                                http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/ep2380628b.jpg (http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/ep2380628b.jpg)
                                http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/ep2380628c.jpg

               http://media0.news.ch/news/680/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg (http://media0.news.ch/news/680/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 25, 2016, 08:51:15 PM

What I have found is one must build with the understanding that we want the exact opposite of what we consider as a resonant condition.  What I mean here is simple to understand. Resonance as we presently view it is restricted to one specific frequency.  That which is desired is a condition where resonance becomes a broad band phenomena.  All frequencies are the resonant frequency in sequence.  So, no my system is not finicky.  I just need to establish the conditions which facilitate and support the broad band phenomena.

Regards


erfinder, In all your dozens of posts, helpful hints, subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations... I am still completely in the dark, not even a starting point?? Can you do better??? What is it you want us to see????


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 25, 2016, 09:22:44 PM

erfinder, In all your dozens of posts, helpful hints, subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations... I am still completely in the dark, not even a starting point?? Can you do better??? What is it you want us to see????


Ron




Hi Ron - This is GOLD!!! I love it, I could not have said it better myself ;)


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 25, 2016, 09:25:26 PM

erfinder, In all your dozens of posts, helpful hints, subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations... I am still completely in the dark, not even a starting point?? Can you do better??? What is it you want us to see? ???


Ron

http://media0.news.ch/news/680/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg (http://media0.news.ch/news/680/296740-396c983d4290901e4060ffe25e7c0eb3.jpg) mikro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4jMSCBswY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ4jMSCBswY) 4dimensional alive            human-makro
resonance measurement http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/ep2380628b.jpg (http://rexresearch.com/scalarlong/ep2380628b.jpg)
and homogenity

left side    a.b. girl/s    left hand : cw or ccw ? right  hand: ccw or cw
right side a.b. girl/s    left hand : cw or ccw ?  right hand : ccw or cw ?


who is asked and has to give the answer ? The left side girl,the right side girl  or I and where am I ?
    Are we fixed or moving position ? They or I(like the camera-man/wife?) We all ?
                                       
This video translating in a virtual -trickfilm like- 4D movie -shows if we understand movement and this in ECHTZEIT/REALTIME sequenz.This are programmer doing !

                                            view aspect for the correct answer


                                   http://www.crystalinks.com/synchronicity.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/synchronicity.html)

                                         https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holografie (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holografie)
                                                        google translated
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHolografie&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHolografie&edit-text=)



                                        for 4D creativity and 4D technical observation
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to webby1 he gave clearly his fixpoint of his re-/search result:


Real system capacitance is the rate at which current or flux in this case changes with respect to time divided by voltage.


excluded as "Essential" from #737
.........
Real system capacitance isn't proximity between wires.
Real system capacitance isn't lumped values applied to the circuit.
Real system capacitance is the rate at which current or flux in this case changes with respect to time divided by voltage.
 The aforereferenced are secondary!
  We must identify and utilize the "real" circuit capacity, and use the secondary as required for streamlining tuning. ....... Citation End.


[ "We" : 1.2.3. kind ? ::)  #7?? : " I am here, the world is of no interest to me."
    using the lingual/linguistic SRT                                                     ...   for me."
    Erfinder,how shall translate a KI-translation program your point of view ?
    You treat(active part) or you are treated(passive part) !
    It is only rhetorical,the question ! Time-comparision : Have a good day ! We here now night !]                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 25, 2016, 10:28:14 PM

erfinder, In all your dozens of posts, helpful hints, subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations... I am still completely in the dark, not even a starting point?? Can you do better??? What is it you want us to see? ???


Ron

I am going to stick my neck way out here and probably get it cut off.  But I think this may be part of what Erfinder is trying to get us to see.  If you look at the attached circuit you will see that as you pulse the transformer one of the secondary windings is shorted.  When the pulse is removed the short is also removed allowing the collapsing magnetic field to charge the cap through the bridge I have across the other secondary winding.  The transformer is a standard 120 volt primary with a tapped secondary with an output of 12-0-12.  The interesting thing is with the coil shorting technique I can pulse the primary with only 12 volts and charge the cap to over 12 volts.  There should have been only 1.2 volts going to the cap.  But pulses do strange things with transformers.  And shorting one of the secondaries does even more strange things.

 Build this circuit and try it both when shorting the secondary and without shorting the secondary.  See what you get.  You can use whatever you want to control the transistors but I have included a simple 555 timer circuit if you don't have a function generator or microprocessor to give you the pulses.
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: tinman on September 26, 2016, 02:25:15 AM

erfinder, In all your dozens of posts, helpful hints, subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations... I am still completely in the dark, not even a starting point?? Can you do better??? What is it you want us to see????


Ron

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyLz2cXn49s


Brad
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 05:03:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyLz2cXn49s


Brad





Oh Geepas!!! I bet that poor Lady hever ever got on a Motor Bike again!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 26, 2016, 05:13:21 AM
i_ron ;D  how you show us: subject out lines, ego polishing, character assassinations
                                       us: the male race     specially: "us",the white "HERRENRASSE"
                                       us: not we,but them            not I,but he (or : she !)


                                      "us":you,i_ron                      "us": but I and he,Erfinder,too(level-difference)
                                                                                     (special case ,Erfinder: not I and the donkey)

                                             tribe tribut tribunal
i_ron   - your personal        at-tribution ,here ?          yokes ? hihihohohaha :sufficient ! And now ?


                                         butter to the fish !             


         


He wrote clearly about his intentions,not to disclose "special information" cause personal economical interests: you- i_ron, I ,we all, have to accept people own and personal behaviour with or without
                hints by their intentions


                 Lenz "free" generator does not mean  Limit free generator,social limits


                 to disclose all the secrets ,there are to many Mr. and Mrs. "NIMMERSATT",
                 giving one "finger-tip" and becoming slaved,NO !
                 we are not the "HEILSARMEE"


When you go to estatal R&D institutions/organisations do you mean that they there have to disclose to you all their know-ledge cause they are paid by the citizen tax ? ::)
When you go to christian universities and colleges do you mean they have to disclose you all their
scientifical property ? ::)
                                                    are you (a)"backfish/selfisch" ? life newbie ? fresh born ?


                                                                    ora et labora


                                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_degree)       
                   academical:docere,Docent,Doctor (in ..... faculta) degree ~ economical : patent grant        WIPO -international- granted !
                                                                  docere ~ to teach ,to educate


  patent EXAMINATION by international,knowledge reknowned,patent office "peers" and then "academic of science peers" later approved


                                                                        chicken or egg 
                                                  first practizise then theory   or vice-versa   
                                                  first the newbie then the elder or vice-versa


Some,many, users in this forum invested time and financial,material, resources to resolve -from the society not done- problems   
                           there is not the need of several people mobbing or mental pressure behaviour   


Who has something in his hand and head can as minimum claim/apply for copy-right,utility model,or new technical standart model(l)


we are not living in an altruistic world ,even our "family" as social group model(l) is based by each of the family members opportunity
         
And who has something should ever demand for the NDA ,saved by warranty: capital safety ( can be also the life from the assignor) !


                                caput,capita,capital: head,the main (non/destroyable: the highest value)


                       I do not think that educated people with Master-degree or knowledge range do
                                                      pearls before the swine throw


                                                                     Overdosis risc !
                               The pigs could become "meneater" !  Pigs,porcs are carnivore !


                     But I am not Master (Maester ? breeder,grower,fattener) I am only "Mister/Mr."(Stallbursche :P  mist=dung,dung servant)


                                                 Education by international reknowned BS-societies,not stolen,offered by them.
                                                                              I only recycle it ;)


                                 human babies,so nice and sweet : carnivore-treatment in the Mutterleib( womb ; German : Wampe :Fat man his belly)
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katholisch.de%2Faktuelles%2Faktuelle-artikel%2Fkain-und-abel&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katholisch.de%2Faktuelles%2Faktuelle-artikel%2Fkain-und-abel&edit-text=)
                                     Kain,aehh Pardon,Kein abel(Fachchinesisch !),abel hat geschmeckt ! 8)

                                                      disobedience : glutton ~ Nimmersatt

                                 Die Dinosaurier,werden immer trauriger,denn Noah laesst sie nicht an Bord  ;D
                                                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yPraxHBdUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yPraxHBdUU)
                                                   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBk0CA0bhb0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBk0CA0bhb0)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 26, 2016, 05:06:17 PM

The sane thing to do is just ignore me...  You were informed by those who "know", that I don't know what I am talking about.   


I am capable of sorting out various inputs and forming my own conclusions. I read your posts, I have talked with you on skype. So the impression I get is that you have something and would love to tell us all about it.


However it is the frustration of the cat and mouse game that you play that prompts me to write. Ahh, this is the direction to run in....BAM, down comes the paw, claws extended and the poor mouse (me) (us?) is flung up into the air again and again.


It is like trying to get something sensible out of Dave or Matt.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 26, 2016, 05:25:11 PM
I am going to stick my neck way out here and probably get it cut off.  But I think this may be part of what Erfinder is trying to get us to see.  If you look at the attached circuit you will see that as you pulse the transformer one of the secondary windings is shorted.  When the pulse is removed the short is also removed allowing the collapsing magnetic field to charge the cap through the bridge I have across the other secondary winding.  The transformer is a standard 120 volt primary with a tapped secondary with an output of 12-0-12.  The interesting thing is with the coil shorting technique I can pulse the primary with only 12 volts and charge the cap to over 12 volts.  There should have been only 1.2 volts going to the cap.  But pulses do strange things with transformers.  And shorting one of the secondaries does even more strange things.

 Build this circuit and try it both when shorting the secondary and without shorting the secondary.  See what you get.  You can use whatever you want to control the transistors but I have included a simple 555 timer circuit if you don't have a function generator or microprocessor to give you the pulses.


Thanks for taking that chance Carroll, that looks liken interesting lead, lets hope erfinder will comment.


Normally I would jump right in but I am working on a new rotor design for the Ward thing, so otherwise occupied.


Ron
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: citfta on September 26, 2016, 08:24:55 PM

What aspect(s) of this do you consider to be part of what I am trying to get you (all) to see?  Can you elaborate?


Regards

I think you are trying to get us to see that we can manipulate the inductance to our advantage.  In this circuit the transformer I used has an inductance of the primary winding of 976 mh with all windings being open.  When I short the secondary winding the inductance drops to 84 mh.  So we charge the primary winding while the inductance is low and recover the energy while the inductance is high.   This causes the cap to charge to a much higher voltage than without the shorting circuit.  I have not had time to try this idea on a pulse motor but I can see how it might lead to a much more efficient motor.  Maybe even to a motor that could generate more power than needed to run the motor.

Regards,
Carroll
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: i_ron on September 26, 2016, 09:48:18 PM
snip

Feels good seeing some trying to see what I see.

Regards


Well finally some information! Now I now what you are talking about.

Thanks erfinder ... thanks Carroll

Ron

(Incidentally the two links were the same, JB's never came through)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 10:16:24 PM

Well finally some information! Now I now what you are talking about.

Thanks erfinder ... thanks Carroll

Ron

(Incidentally the two links were the same, JB's never came through)



Hahahaha I wonder why...

Mr Agnostic, Un-Informative, through the imaginary eyes of his Own God, JB!!!

Oh it is sickening, and again, nothing new. People have been doing this for decades! We just discussed the Parametric Oscillator, 1934, image below:

But as long as we can see what he can see... then we will all be saved, because JB will be our God too!!!

Erfinder, You love yourself! As much as you love your own God, JB, and your saviour JM. Keep talking it up, sooner or later youll trip on those Big O'l Lipps...

 
   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 26, 2016, 10:39:48 PM
Haha , Mandelstam/Papalexi ?
https://www.google.pt/search?client=opera&q=bifurkation+mandelstam+papalexi&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

some food for intensive re-/search


for whom https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1)  is not of interest


going to citing documents
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


and from this 1. -idem-
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5350991A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=4&date=19940927&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5350991A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=4&date=19940927&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


who has time and patience : cited documents also listened


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 10:51:58 PM



For those that did not see the pdf:

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 10:55:59 PM
Haha , Mandelstam/Papalexi ?
https://www.google.pt/search?client=opera&q=bifurkation+mandelstam+papalexi&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

some food for intensive re-/search


for whom https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1)  is not of interest


going to citing documents
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19790215&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


and from this 1. -idem-
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5350991A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=4&date=19940927&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/citingDocuments?CC=US&NR=5350991A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=4&date=19940927&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)


who has time and patience : cited documents also listened


Exactly!!! First document: 1934 REPORT ON RECENT RESEARCH ON NONLINEAR OSCILLATIONS1 (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Mandelstam_Papalexi/Mandelstam-Papalexi%20-%20Report%20on%20Recent%20Research%20on%20Nonlinear%20Oscillations%20-%201935.pdf)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Oh Dear, Erfinder, we can see you now!!! Clearly you have not done the homework, and know nothing of the History behind any of this!!! You Should, and then you should give credit to those that you copy from!



Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 26, 2016, 11:20:16 PM
                                                               26/09/2016
                                                       +/-              1996


                           What did you -more or less- twenty years before ,C.S. ?
                                                 (Prof.) Dr. Florian Popescu
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=florian+popescu&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search


                                                   I am not in hurry !
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: web000x on September 26, 2016, 11:31:16 PM


Hahahaha I wonder why...

Mr Agnostic, Un-Informative, through the imaginary eyes of his Own God, JB!!!

Oh it is sickening, and again, nothing new. People have been doing this for decades! We just discussed the Parametric Oscillator, 1934, image below:

But as long as we can see what he can see... then we will all be saved, because JB will be our God too!!!

Erfinder, You love yourself! As much as you love your own God, JB, and your saviour JM. Keep talking it up, sooner or later youll trip on those Big O'l Lipps...

 
   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Please stop adding this crap to the thread.  If you have technical contributions, cool, but please stop this shit.  Reading countless pages of you all arguing over nothing really is obnoxious.  It doesn't matter who did it first.  We all need to be doing it NOW.


Dave
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 11:33:37 PM
                                                               26/09/2016
                                                       +/-              1996


                           What did you -more or less- twenty years before ,C.S. ?
                                                 (Prof.) Dr. Florian Popescu
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=florian+popescu&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search


                                                   I am not in hurry !



Vehicle battery-operated electric drive - uses parametric resonance regulated by semiconductor control to reduce energy losses (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19811001&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=3006520A1&KC=A1&ND=4)

C.S.Lewis? - Not sure there - Sorry...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 26, 2016, 11:37:40 PM

Please stop adding this crap to the thread.  If you have technical contributions, cool, but please stop this shit.  Reading countless pages of you all arguing over nothing really is obnoxious.  It doesn't matter who did it first.  We all need to be doing it NOW.


Dave



Dave Agreed - Just saying it how it is, but I agree, its needless drivel that helps no one.

Quote

The battery-operated electric drive system for a vehicle uses a resonance pulsation motor supplied with current from the battery via a parametric generator. The braking energy is used for battery recharging and a flywheel is used for intermediate energy storage and to store kinetic energy e.g. so that in the case of a heavy vehicle it can be used to supplement the battery voltage when travelling up on incline. Pref. the generator controlled parametric resonance is obtained by semiconductor control. The system is designed to give reduced running costs since the thermodynamic losses are less, while the delivered mechanical output remains the same.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 12:43:27 AM
                                  You are acting too fast,Mister C(hris) S(ykes) !
How many publications did the (Prof.) Dr. Florian Goetsch-Popescu applicated ?
Only 1 ?


One(1):
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19840612&CC=US&NR=4454463A&KC=A (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19840612&CC=US&NR=4454463A&KC=A)

Two(2)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=8&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820407&CC=EP&NR=0049214A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=8&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820407&CC=EP&NR=0049214A1&KC=A1)

Three(3)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=2317724A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19741017&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=2317724A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19741017&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)

Four(4)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=11&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820121&CC=DE&NR=3021154A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=11&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820121&CC=DE&NR=3021154A1&KC=A1)

Five(5)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=20&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19730315&CC=DE&NR=2143461A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=20&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19730315&CC=DE&NR=2143461A1&KC=A1)
.....
In der Hauptsache wird praktisch im vorliegenden Falle die Resonanz als parametrische Resonanz durch gesteuerte Variation der Prequenz der Radialschwin- gungen der beweglichen Scheibenteile allmählich eingeführt und systematiseh, nach Notwendigkeit gesteigert bzw. stationär unterhalten. Als anschauliches einfachee Beispiel hierfür gilt das Schiffs schaukeln auf dem Jahrmarkt. Hiervon ging im übrigen der verstorbene russische Gelehrte Papalexi aus, als er das Problem der parametrischen Resonanz eingehend behandelte. Auch der vor kürzerer Zeit verstorbene Pro- fessor Landau aus Russland hat zusammen mit Lifschitz in einem ins Deutsche übersetzte, in der BRD. erhältliche Mechanikbuch ein Kapitel über parametrische Resonanz geschrieben.Desgleichen hat der Urheber dieser vorliegenden Erfindung eine ausführlichere Mitteilung über die Ausnutzung der parametrischen Resonanz bei einem Inertialdrehmotor, der rumänischen Akademie im Dezember 1952 eingereicht. Nach eingehender Prüfung seitens der dortigen Akademie, ist die Angeiegenheit nur deswegen nicht weiter gediehen, weil keine Initiative ergriffen wurde, - wie diese Akademie damals empfahl - den Motor zuerst praktisch zu experimentieren. .......



.....(...)

Sincerely
              OCWL
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 02:34:51 AM
http://www.overunity.de/2013/radikal-zukunft-design/msg45623/#new (http://www.overunity.de/2013/radikal-zukunft-design/msg45623/#new) #106 date ?


http://www.overunity.de/1631/magnetmotorexperiment/#.V-m_4UVX9aY (http://www.overunity.de/1631/magnetmotorexperiment/#.V-m_4UVX9aY) #4




http://overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/10635/#.V-nAlkVX9aY (http://overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/10635/#.V-nAlkVX9aY) user m786 #10648

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2265.0 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2265.0)

et cetera et ....


Mandelstam-Papalexi has been on a very low power level, (Prof.) Dr.Florian Popescu wrote about higher power levels ! Step-by-step-Evolution


It is important to work out the resonanz circuit (motor/generator/transformer) carefully because if not there will become reached the point of no return ergo :
                                           RESONANZKATASTROPHE,
known as movie www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: hoptoad on September 27, 2016, 08:25:27 AM
Yes, this is part of the message.  We can manipulate inductive reactive cross section of the circuit, and do so in a  manner which does not necessitate the inserting and removing of a core material.
snip....

Feels good seeing some trying to see what I see.
Regards
The fog is lifting, the toad sees where he's once been, knows now where he is, and looks to the future.
Cheers and KneeDeep ...
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 09:45:48 AM
Hello Chris Sykes,
when you work and listen -with concentration- you would have seen and corrected me for the fault/faught/Fehler/error whose I did :
Mandelstam-Papalexi has been on a very low power level, (Prof.) Dr.Florian Popescu wrote about higher power levels ! Step-by-step-Evolution


Professor Mandelstam and Professor Papalexi have been two different humans and persons with whom of each different personalities and characteres and profiles,so I have to correct my mission:


"Mandelstam and Papalexi have been on a very low power level,(Prof.) Dr.Florian Popescu wrote about higher power levels ! "

Trial and Error for Success: to give by translation "1:1=1"  PERFECT SYNTAX by Symmetry


You/we are working on a/the "Dreammachine" ,without concentration it becomes an "Alptraum" Apocalypse "Apos-call-ypse"
                                                                 GOoD and BAD


                                                           Believing: in the same ?
                                Who/What consults you and who/what consults me ?
                                          Same level and viewpoint and Realtime ?                                 


What shall the "maschine" have for functions ? Multifunctional ? Transponder-function : the EU-European EUREKA-Program linguage translator ? Materializer ? Dematerializer ? "Scotty,beam me up and contro-versely "Scotty, beam me on" movie "Raumschiff Enterprise" in the german TV ,in the United States of America ? It is an U.S.A. artists production !


This in your hands : Baschir als Assad ,friend or enemy ?
                                Donald Trump ,f. or e. ? Hillary Clinton,f.or e. ?
                                Atomar reacting weapons,friendly or fools their tools ?
                                Thermo-baric re-/actor,friendly or fools their tools ?


Have you childs ? How would/could they(plural)/he,she(singular,sexus) treat the world with such a maschine in their property,possession ?


Wladimir Putin,friend or fool,Dr.Angela Merkel,the Kim in North-Corea and.... ,and ... !


When you are afraid or angry about anybody or anything : making a change by a time-maschine ?
            Ever more or never more seeing,hearing,expeience bad things ?! But are probably this bad things for personal you and good thing probably for the other, or vice-versa good things or situation/-s for specially you and only bad for the other ?


Where is the right Symmetrie by the "balance of Power" "balance of Poorness/Richdom" ?


Gives we as humanity,for example the U.N.-forum/conference for this questions the right true and transparent answer or are you the answer giving right person or I,we two,this forum ?       I think you are male and I am male,have we the right answer also for our human female part ?! Is it better to become borned by the mother as male or female human ? What is about the new defined sexus: Transgender,
the neutral human,officially accepted in India by the estate,but by their society,male part or female part ?


Am I ,you social and experienced enough about moral and/or ethical questions/answers to decide or is this not better discussed by
"academies of sciences","academies of Theo-/Teleologie" or estatal ethical commissions !?


I am confessional working,not professional,but we have enough specialists whose are working 365 days(less weekends and vacations)
to resolve unconvenient problems/questions !


The POPE,has he to work 365 days( mor exactly: 365,25 days per year cause the 23.58 hours and ? sec day,Schalttag,29.February) or is there a Vice-Pope ?When the POPE,the bishop from Rome is in journey,who is representing him ,in Roma ?  Is he not human.too ?
A female POPE,impossible ? Abt(the Abbade-Father hirarchy-rank: bishop . Are there not female Abbas ?
 In the rom.-Katholic Churche, I am not writing about the normal situation in the Weltkirchenbund-Organisation(headquarter Genf/Geneve).


Wladimir Putin,a Ras-Putin ? Has he not to show,inner-/outer-estate, to his citizen a kind of "Macho"-personality ? Many enemies/concurrence   !


The Kim-"dynasty" in North-Corea, an hard job ! History and future !?


                                                               Consense !? Common sense ?!


Ranking : Has I,you,he/she/it we/they/ ever to be in the NR.1 competition or is sometimes NR.70000000000 not wiser (to be the Last)
                                                                    incende a luz- ascende a luz


https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19931118&CC=DE&NR=4215818A1&KC=A1 (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=4&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19931118&CC=DE&NR=4215818A1&KC=A1)


                                                   New matter creation or matter destroying ?
                                                                 Does it matter ?         


I am a human and I am glad not to be in the political "heads" Imperior/Kings/Presidents  et .et their position become hunted 365 days by the papparazzis for a good (photo-)shot,an exclusive story or exclusive "secret" delivered ! "Poor boys and girls" !
The Prince of Wales-Position is more my alike ,Infante(infnatil,nasty ::) ) /Crownprincipe ! Camilla ? As "ti"(cha/tea) ? Eventually.


 WAR IS PEACE /PEACE IS WAR : a provocative these by an Artist ,  "1984" and/or  "Brave new world ?" and finally "ZARDOS" :
we as humans could become- by the bio-technolgy- imortal !?


                              Fantastic or horrible !? For the human society - urban/rural society - flora et fauna - Planet earth ?!


                                                            I like to die,not yet but in the next future.Giving place for the temporal next.


                                                                        pearls before the swine throw[/size]


                                               some/many members here in the forum are throwing pearls/visions[/size]
                                                       and there are "swine" and "Glueck/Lucky swine" present[/size]
                                              but too much luck becomes boring or normal and let us forget to Thank                                [/size]
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: EMJunkie on September 27, 2016, 11:21:38 AM
Hello Chris Sykes,
when you work and listen -with concentration- you would have seen and corrected me for the fault/faught/Fehler/error whose I did :
Mandelstam-Papalexi has been on a very low power level, (Prof.) Dr.Florian Popescu wrote about higher power levels ! Step-by-step-Evolution


Professor Mandelstam and Professor Papalexi have been two different humans and persons with whom of each different personalities and characteres and profiles,so I have to correct my mission:


"Mandelstam and Papalexi have been on a very low power level,(Prof.) Dr.Florian Popescu wrote about higher power levels ! "

Trial and Error for Success: to give by translation "1:1=1"  PERFECT SYNTAX by Symmetry


You/we are working on a/the "Dreammachine" ,without concentration it becomes an "Alptraum" Apocalypse "Apos-call-ypse"
                                                                 GOoD and BAD


                                                           Believing: in the same ?
                                Who/What consults you and who/what consults me ?
                                          Same level and viewpoint and Realtime ?                                 




Hi lancaIV,

I am guilty, sometimes I do not pay enough attention - Always when I spread myself too thin. Have too much work to do. It’s sad, because in my quest to learn, I sometimes don’t give myself enough time to absorb!

In the last few days I have had some health problems with my family, so my attention has been somewhat distracted also.

Some of these papers you have posted, I have never seen or read, so thanks, I have added to my list of study.

I think we are all working on the dream machine, we have all got our dreams. It must start at the start, if Electrical Power is not abundant, then we cannot dream! Electrical Energy is everything, imagine...

Quote

Believing: in the same ?
Who/What consults you and who/what consults me ?
Same level and viewpoint and Realtime ?   


I really like this bit, this is very powerful, we have all been given a "Life" what we do with it, how well we do, I believe must account for something at the end. Same if you don’t do well. What the trophy is at the finish line is anyone’s guess, it’s not about possessional gain, I think it’s about Spiritual Growth, and not what a Church teaches you. Cooky to some, I know!

Back to Tech, User “E2Matrix” posted this to my POC Thread, if some wish to read, I found it very good: A new type of electromagnetic radiation?  (https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.macmep.ru/new_em.htm)

We think of Magnetic Fields too loosely, and need to think more spatially. Many ways to change Inductance, so recent discussions by Cifta are good, I hope he continues to help with his circuits and experiments.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org




Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 11:35:09 AM
                                          I sometimes don’t give myself enough time to absorb! In the last few days I have had some health problems with my family, so my attention has been somewhat distracted also.


                                         Priorities of each them in his life !
Your are trying and other :cooperation !
When you are sleeping(or "hanging around"~ mental recuperation) other are working and thinking and probably feeling with back and forward view about the result from their work !
                                                               When other are sleeping you are working !

                                                                   The Earth - geral view- never sleeps


                                                                                Melhor saude !


p.s.: Is life fair,fairness,an affair ?
Pytagoras,Jesus Cristus and Dale Carnegie(letter/views collector and publisher): soul walking


Someone was sended as shoe-seller to a comercial district and after a timely period he comes back and told that he has not have success
because there the people did not weared shoes.He gave up the trial.
 
The company sended another seller to this comercial district: these seller came back,glad and thanked the administration for this chance of his life because there the people did not wered shoes before he came and showed how commod it is to have their feets saved.


                                                          point of view and interest   


Dale Carnegie and the Carnegie-Hall (for famous life artists) ,donated but by Andrew Carnegie(loco-motion)
                            to give the right tool to right hands (and believer)


Philosophie and Religion are tools- to become adult - ad ulterior ,blasphemie and haeresie is part to find the right balance:


                                          my God is Lord   L'ord ~       L'ordnung
                                                    outside  I am really Un-Ordnung




        Anybody will not "laugh" about this :


  Im Namen des Vaters und des Sohnes und des Heiligen Geistes


Der Papst stirbt und kommt an die Himmelstür. Petrus begrüßt ihn und fragt nach seinem Namen. "Ich bin der Papst!" "Papst, Papst", murmelt Petrus. "Tut mir leid, ich habe niemanden mit diesem Namen in meinem Buch." "Aber... ich bin der Stellvertreter Gottes auf Erden!" "Gott hat einen Stellvertreter auf Erden?", sagt Petrus verblüfft. "Komisch, hat er mir gar nichts von gesagt..." Der Papst läuft krebsrot an. "Ich bin das Oberhaupt der Katholischen Kirche!" "Katholische Kirche... nie gehört", sagt Petrus. "Aber warte mal nen Moment, ich frag den Chef." Er geht nach hinten in den Himmel und sagt zu Gott: "Du, da ist einer, der sagt, er sei dein Stellvertreter auf Erden. Er heißt Papst. Sagt dir das was?" "Nee", sagt Gott. "Kenn ich nicht. Weiß ich nichts von. Aber warte mal, ich frag Jesus. Jeeesus!" Jesus kommt angerannt. "Ja, Vater, was gibts?" Gott und Petrus erklären ihm die Situation. "Moment", sagt Jesus, "ich guck mir den mal an. Bin gleich zurück." Zehn Minuten später ist er wieder da, Tränen lachend. "Ich fass es nicht", japst er. "Erinnert ihr euch an den kleinen Fischerverein, den ich vor 2000 Jahren gegründet habe? Den gibts immer noch!"


I can "schmunzeln" and it it is important to live with this kind of "dope". Lachen ist die beste Medizin

the "Witz" translated :


The pope dies and goes to heaven's door. Peter greets him and asks for his name. "I am the Pope!" "Pope, Pope," murmurs Peter. "I'm sorry, I have no one by that name in my book." "But ... I am the representative of God on earth!" "God has a representative on earth?" Says Peter amazed. "Funny, he told me nothing of said ..." The Pope goes to red as a lobster. "I am the head of the Catholic Church!" "The Catholic Church ... never heard," says Peter. "But wait instant, but I ask the boss." He goes back to the sky and says to God: "You, there is one who says he is your representative on earth he called Pope Says you what..?" "Nah," says God. "I do not characteristic. I know of. But wait times nothing, I ask Jesus. Jeeesus!" Jesus comes running. "Yes, Father, what is it?" God and Peter explain the situation. "Wait," says Jesus, "I watch my time on. Be right back." Ten minutes later, he's back, tears, laughing. "I can not believe it," he gasps. "Do you remember the little fishing club that I have founded 2,000 years ago? The still there!"


                       Is this fine ? What ? To have this all compressed ,without sense and feeling pause !

                                                      The pope dies and goes to heaven's door.


                                                       Peter greets him and asks for his name.
                                                                          "I am the Pope!"
                     "Pope, Pope," murmurs Peter. "I'm sorry, I have no one by that name in my book."
                                              "But ... I am the representative of God on earth!"
                    "God has a representative on earth?" Says Peter amazed. "Funny, he told me nothing of said ..."
                         The Pope goes to red as a lobster. "I am the head of the Catholic Church!"
                        "The Catholic Church ... never heard," says Peter. "But wait instant, but I ask the boss."


 He goes back to the sky and says to God: "You, there is one who says he is your representative on earth he called Pope Says you what..?"                        "Nah," says God. "I do not characteristic. I know of. But wait times nothing, I ask Jesus. Jeeesus!
                                                       " Jesus comes running. "Yes, Father, what is it?"
                                                                 God and Peter explain the situation.
                                                 "Wait," says Jesus, "I watch my time on. Be right back."


                                                       Ten minutes later, he's back, tears, laughing.
           "I can not believe it," he gasps. "Do you remember the little fishing club that I have founded 2,000 years ago? The still there!"


                                Different "persons",different "geographical spaces and levels" : 1 "Witz"


                                    German: Gewitzt sein !                                     English: be tricky,clever



                                                                           and smart ::)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 01:11:05 PM
                                                 Nikola Tesla                    E=tc²

            "    Where have you been?  Where are you now?  Where are you going?    "

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmReSm77Z-Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmReSm77Z-Q)
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 01:19:44 PM
Erfinder, Minkowski RAUM-ZEIT-KEGEL  WIRBEL/VORTEX   WANDLER ! Pi -e -g
                                Konstante und Transzendente 
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 01:34:06 PM
                        8) difficult to fix this question as answer 8)
                                                     borned(my view):

                   romanic imperium: Mauretania tingitis
                   today:                    Morocco,Marokko,Maroc
                                                 Casablanca


                                                   PERSPECTIVE
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/World_line-de.svg/250px-World_line-de.svg.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/World_line-de.svg/250px-World_line-de.svg.png)


p.s.: Why a geographical interest about my "coming" ? I do not ask you -directly- about your geographical "going" !


                                             Concentrating we us related KYBERNETIK !
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: Jeg on September 27, 2016, 01:42:29 PM
Hi all
I watch with great interest your conversation guys, thanks a lot for sharing ideas. I’d like to ask Erfinder about this:

Energy stored inside an inductor’s magnetic field is E=0,5xLxI^2

With certain value of current and inductance we have a certain amount of energy stored. If the same energy is discharged through higher L, won’t discharging peak current (I)  be less than what we have used during the charging cycle? (I=sqrt 2E/L).   

Thanks
Title: Re: Lenz free generator
Post by: lancaIV on September 27, 2016, 02:28:43 PM

Erfinder,homework ? Kinematische Relativismus, Kinematk
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FKinematik_%28Teilchenprozesse%29&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FKinematik_%28Teilchenprozesse%29&edit-text=)


Relativitaet : Theorie=Grundlagen ,Praxis=Anwendung      Relativity = basics, practice = application




and to work with patience : not Kinematk but Kinematik                                     "Third Eye" ~self-obser