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Author Topic: Lenz free generator  (Read 369433 times)

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #555 on: September 24, 2016, 12:10:07 AM »

Thanks Chris!  interesting numbers for sure. Math is not one of my strong points so I am amazed at how you do this!!


Now to post mortem this, I was wondering if the flux path length through the laminates was the critical factor? Is this the reason Watson used such long cores in that famous machine???


Anyway, searching for what we learned here and you seem to be able to present this in a very understandable manner... so over to you.


Ron



Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #555 on: September 24, 2016, 12:10:07 AM »

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #556 on: September 24, 2016, 12:22:05 AM »



Hi Ron - Re Saturation, this is where the Core Material can no longer accept more Magnetic Flux (B).

Like a Sponge can only accept a volume of Water before more Water spills out everywhere, the Core Material will present an easier path for the Flux, measured as the Permeability (μ), but the upper limit of this easier path, is considered to be Saturated. No more Flux cant travel this easier Path because there is no more room, so the Flux Spills out.

This is a very easy experiment to learn about Saturation and the BH Curve: http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/non-linear_transformer_behavior.htm


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #557 on: September 24, 2016, 12:50:27 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #557 on: September 24, 2016, 12:50:27 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #558 on: September 24, 2016, 01:55:46 AM »


Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.


Brad

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #559 on: September 24, 2016, 02:07:32 AM »
                         temperature decrease/ tension and frequency behaviour ? linear or progressive ?
                         internal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #559 on: September 24, 2016, 02:07:32 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #560 on: September 24, 2016, 04:43:45 AM »


Hi Ron - I am blushing... I fumble my way through what I can, using the "try and try again" technique... Math is not my strong point, but I try, I find it does help sometimes.

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?

I felt that the Rotor was Riding the Magnetic Field, the Magnetic Field from Lenz's Law, the Output Magnetic field from the draw of Current on the Output.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


 and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron

Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #561 on: September 24, 2016, 04:55:49 AM »


Hi Ron -

Ron, how would you describe what is going on here? How is it that the Rotor is able to see less drag at higher speeds? Output efficiency increase as the Rotor Speed increases?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron 

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #561 on: September 24, 2016, 04:55:49 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #562 on: September 24, 2016, 05:06:45 AM »
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.

Brad


Thanks Brad, will look into that in the AM


Ron

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #563 on: September 24, 2016, 06:02:20 AM »
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.


Brad



I am a poorly educated Motor Nube, but I would tend to agree, even with my Nube experience!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #563 on: September 24, 2016, 06:02:20 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #564 on: September 24, 2016, 06:13:01 AM »

Chris,you were concerned that I was running into saturation so I have taken 4 of the 10 magnets out.


While it was on the RV I did a reading, ready? the draw went up!  Up to 67 watts (3000 RPM)


I put it back (with the reduced magnet count) on the original prime mover...


 and the "action" (at 3000 RPM) has gone away,  Now at the slow speed the numbers are close, 9.8 watts in,  for 9 watts out, the "special" has gone to 13.5 watts in for 12.98 watts out. The high speed got a little worse with 28 watts in for 22 watts out. So removing 4 of the 10 magnets is not an improvement.


You may be correct with "riding the magnetic field" because as we see here the flux field has to met a certain strength criteria to work in our favour...However, that being said the increase draw to 67 watts (on the RV) is, in both cases, with no load on the generator... thoughts?


Ron



Hey Ron, I completely agree with your findings here! I saw the same thing! Time Rate of Change, of the Magnetic Field is the key, if the Magnetic Field (B) is lower in Value the EMF will be less.

MMF, the Magnetomotive Force is the Current through Windings (N), F = NI, which is the Magnetising Force back on the Core, in this case, this is Lenz's Law, EMF is 180 degrees out of phase, and so, the MMF will also be 180 degrees out of phase, but we redirect it with this configuration.

We could do some Math here and look at figures, but I have had a Beer, so it would not look pretty, so maybe later?

But, yes youre seeing consistant agreement with my early experiments. I just think this working together is awesome!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #565 on: September 24, 2016, 06:20:41 AM »

Chris, to be more specific, the drag increases up to a certain point, then there is a dip, followed by a resumption of the increase.


This is with no electrical load being drawn, so it is not Lenz related. It must then be strictly a magnetic phenomenon.


Ron



Hi Ron, again consistant with my replication. The drag, normal to most all generators is Lenz's Law, as we know, but when the point is reached, where the Flux completes the Path of least reluctance, the Rotor Rides the Magnetic Field, because they are in Quadrature, and also confined to a small space.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #565 on: September 24, 2016, 06:20:41 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #566 on: September 24, 2016, 07:08:36 AM »



Backyard Build Off Challange 2016 - Brad's Build Off Challange...

Not as much Interest as I thought? Get in to take the prize, show your skills, Most Thumbs up wins...

URL: http://buildoff.hyiq.org/

Registrations close on a date soon so be in to win!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Offline lancaIV

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #567 on: September 24, 2016, 08:52:00 AM »
TESLA + Hector RT or TV : TESLA RTV   ,rotatory -translatory-linear, Peter Drucker "In search of Excellence" and other
                                                In search of the "ideal dynamo",
                                                           Linear Generator


Not to read   Tesla,studying and becoming
Not to read Hector,studying and becoming
Only one "thing" not :
To read the restaurant menu card,studying and please for becoming a steak ( become : english: to get anglo-saxonic:"to will be" or wise-men-(con)versa(tion)  8)  aehh,pardon,I mean vice-versa ;D  ,BS,I think this Feng-Shui does not becomes me ;) )


Who invented the "ideal dynamo" and trying this the "real dynamo" ,in german "Selbstlaeufer" ?
Who invented the "auto-mobile starter" ,auto=Selbst=self, ?
https://www.google.pt/search?q=anlasser+funktion&client=opera&hs=X1O&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=668&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiT-OS8vKfPAhWGWxQKHes0CJsQsAQIMA


Who invented the "ideal capacitor" and trying this the "real capacitor" ? 
Lord kelvin: comparing a spring (not a temporal saison period) with the capacitor behaviour !? Thermo-cryo-dynamic


                                   electro-static capacitor and/or magneto-static-capacitor ?
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fworldwide.espacenet.com%2FpublicationDetails%2Fbiblio%3FDB%3DEPODOC%26II%3D5%26ND%3D3%26adjacent%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_EP%26FT%3DD%26date%3D19790215%26CC%3DDE%26NR%3D2733719A1%26KC%3DA1&edit-text=
                                The Mukherjee "controle element/Steuerelement" ? Elementar~ important ?


The above calculation is only an approximate calculation, in the small losses, such as copper losses are not taken into account in the armature of the electrical equipment, energy losses for rotating the inertia around the machine with the required angular velocity and the like.The bill is intended to show that a large amount of energy can be obtained by only a fraction of the output power, but not some form of external energy is consumed.


By supplying the pure output energy of the inventive generator for the electrical device, the force generated in the system can be used to drive other, coupled with the wave machine. Since no fuel is consumed, all types of vehicles and machines with this generator can be operated.


                                                                   "eddy currents brake"and the "kinetic force"
                                                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current_brake
« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 02:47:43 PM by lancaIV »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #568 on: September 24, 2016, 07:30:40 PM »
The answer to that is simple.
The already existing eddy currents are being converted to electrical power.
If Ron places a temp probe on the core of the generator,he will find that the temperature of the core will decrease when he draws a load from the generator.

Way to test for this.
1-place a temp probe on the core-or embed the probe into the core if he can.
2-let the DUT run at the best found RPM for 10-15 minutes-or until it reaches peak temperature.
3-once max core temperature is reached,place a load across the generator,and watch the core temperature.

You would think the temperature of the core/generator would go up,but it will go down,as the generator was already under load,and that load was the production of eddy current heating-waste heat.

Well,that is what i have found anyway.

Brad


Well Brad, I think we can scratch that one too.

Cool in the basement as the heating season hasn't started yet.

Starting temperature was 18 degrees C

After a 10 minute run...23 degrees C

After a 10 minute run under load...24 degrees C

The 50 ohm load resistor was at 72 degrees C after the 10 minute load run!

Ron


edit: the 23 C was fairly stable after 5 or 6 minutes. The scooter motor is not as efficient as the RV and was drawing 110 watts for the no load part of this test.

Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #569 on: September 24, 2016, 08:59:05 PM »





Embarrassment time, dyslexia strikes again. The impressive second reading is an error on my part.

Correction for post #678

The millivolt numbers are correct in my notes, 11.6 mV under load and 10.3 mV no load. I was just dividing by two to get the amps and a very simple mistake occurred on the 11.6... I had written down 5.5 instead of 5.8 and subtracted 5.15 from it. What a difference that makes... from 8.575 watts to 16.25 watts! Sorry about that.


So corrected, the number two reading is 14.28 Watts out for a cost of 16,25 watts in


The best reading today is at 2800 RPM, 12.03 watts out for a cost of 12.5 watts in


The RV draw numbers are correct


Ron

 

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