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Author Topic: Lenz free generator  (Read 394830 times)

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #540 on: September 22, 2016, 10:45:06 PM »
Well,must have been the day to put down our beloved pet's,as we had to put one of our dogs down today--such is life :(

But i must say,i am confused about the rest of your post,as this was your idea of a friendly little comp.
To quote post 264
I would be interested in showing you ladies how it's done in a friendly competition however I have a different set of rules.
1) The motor/generator can have any configuration you want however to keep it simple the device should be no larger than let's say 20 lb.
2)The entire device as well as all associated circuitry must be clearly visible.
3)My favorite... No power supplies of any kind are allowed and the device must be electrically dead in every sense of the word at the start. However we are allowed to spin up the device by hand at the start to any RPM we can muster.
4)A storage capacitor of a value to be determined is allowed to store the output from the device which will also be the only electrical input allowed to the device. The capacitor will be at zero voltage at the start of the test.
5)A DMM or preferably an oscilloscope will show the voltage on the capacitor during the entire duration of the test.
You see this is where all the BS stops and either the capacitor voltage rises or it falls. The rate at which the capacitor voltage rises or falls determines the total efficiency. If the initial spin up at the start cannot generate enough power to charge the capacitor to operate the device and maintain it then your hooped.


And post 493
All in all I like your video even if I'm going to kick your ass but that does not mean we cannot be friends. Competition is good so long as we are moving in the right direction and this direction benefits others.

One minute you are going to show us how it's all done,and the next,your not interested in the very competition you set the rules for--you no longer wish to show us how it's done ???

Oh well-what ever.


Brad



Brad, sorry to hear about your Dog. Its sad when your loved ones pass.

On another note, I am up for a Motor Build off, you start the Thread with rules... Or if you like I can throw up a dedicated site with access for all keen?

My motor skills are very poor! I will not win!!! But its still going to be fun ;)

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #540 on: September 22, 2016, 10:45:06 PM »

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #541 on: September 22, 2016, 10:58:40 PM »

Thanks Chris, even at 81 I still occasionally run on ego... and that was a big boost, LOL


Love those old pics! them old boys knew their stuff.


A couple of clarifications for those following this. I mentioned rotor cogging at the gap... well that was without the end bars and the cogging "nearly" went away with end bars in place, duh. Next, I an only using one end bar (core) as with two, the flux strength is neatly divided in half so it is my suspicion that I can get max output from one coil as with two coils in parallel??? any ideas?

Will dig out the Gauss meter today...

Ron



Hey Ron - Mate, good on you!!! We are all welcome to a little Ego Boost from time to time!!! ;)

Yes Sir! Those old Dynamo's, some 100+ Years old are just works of Art! The Design, the craftsmanship, the care taken on the little fittings, they are beautiful machines! Below, my most favorite of all:

With the second End Bar, if you have one, it may be worth fitting, run the experiments.

You have build a beautiful machine Ron!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #542 on: September 23, 2016, 12:30:36 AM »


I have put a basic site up if anyone is keen to enter? Register if you want to Enter!!!

URL: http://buildoff.hyiq.org/

Its only new, DNS may be propagating still, so some may not be able to visit just yet, keep trying, it will work as soon as DNS is done.

Please let me know and we can add/remove information as needed.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #542 on: September 23, 2016, 12:30:36 AM »
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Offline barbosi

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #543 on: September 23, 2016, 01:20:59 AM »
Some have expressed their wish to learn. I don't think learning should be confused with memorization process, and it's rather based on comprehension. And comprehension comes after individual exploration at great depths, as result of individual particular questions one may ask him/herself.

Depending on individual readiness in exploring the electricity, as I consider a “student” myself, I dare to share with you the others a condensed  presentation of what we have missed. These information are not contained in any mainstream books, there are no formulas nor take-out quotes.

As we are on our own, we can become inventors or continue as spectacular mediocrities, the only critic being our own work - a novelty or a copycat (with all its variations).

The following links some of you may find interesting or boring, intriguing or crazy, approachable or impossible, "the missing link" or "missed my time", however I wish you all the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KooPsEE7E-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9S3ikiL3Ow

Regards

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #544 on: September 23, 2016, 03:47:51 AM »
He guys. An off topic question

Im discussing the cap to cap deal with a youtuber. 

Now in previous discussions on this, if I remember correctly, when we do the identical cap to cap deal, we lose 50% of the total energy. Correct?

Well back then I believe that when we change the values of the caps, one larger and one smaller, or even the other way around, that the total energy outcome becomes less than the 50% loss. Correct?   

Now this guy brought up something that was even stranger to me.

He said he did the experiment using a 350F cap at 12v, and did the cap to cap with an 82uf cap and ended up with 11.9v in each. Here is the strange part for me...

I did the calculations. As I can see it, we did lose less than 50% as shown below. He claims we still lost 50% total, but he is wrong there, but.....

350f  12v  25200J

350F  11.9v  24781J    and the 82uf cap at 11.9v was .0058J

So we didnt lose 50% in total, but it seems we lost a tremendous amount in the transfer.

In the 350F cap we lost 419J and only ended up with 5.8mJ or .0058J  :o   What the heck????

We lost a lot in that transfer, did we not?? Im not talking about total losses as in we lost half of the 25200J, but the loss in the transfer and what we ended up with in the 82uf cap seems like a very huge cost to charge that little cap.  Am I doing something wrong here?? I used 2 different online calculators and the same results.

So now Im not concerned with the 50% loss any longer with identical caps.

We were arguing about the 50%, and I described the same example using 1 large cap and on small cap. Yes, we did not lose 50% in total. But this what Im saying above seems a bit more shocking considering.   The efficiency of what we used from the larger cap compared to what we ended up with in the smaller cap dwarfs the idea of the original 50% loss subject. To me anyway, so far.

Has anyone dealt with this situation before? Or am I just freaking out over nothing??

Mags :o

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #544 on: September 23, 2016, 03:47:51 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MileHigh

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #545 on: September 23, 2016, 04:55:19 AM »
Don't use an online calculator, use your own brains to figure it out.

Offline tinman

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #546 on: September 23, 2016, 06:32:12 AM »

Thank you for your interest and the links. Very interesting. Kind of takes this to a new level. It reminds me of another magnet assisted by an electromagnet motor ... I can't remember the name?


Ron

Was that the one called-gap power?--or something like that.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #546 on: September 23, 2016, 06:32:12 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #547 on: September 23, 2016, 05:04:58 PM »

Was that the one called-gap power?--or something like that.

Brad


Nope, it was more like the parallel path thing where the magnet and the electromagnet came on together for two times (four times?) force.


Ron


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #548 on: September 23, 2016, 05:18:52 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #549 on: September 23, 2016, 08:09:04 PM »





Ward Farce update...


Same format as before, (being just the difference between loaded and unloaded) Only this is with two coils in series


2243 RPM, in 9.8 watts, out 9 watts


3143 RPM, in 8.6 watts, out 14.28 watts (Keeping in mind that the total input draw was 134.75 watts to make 14.28!!!)



4837 RPM, in 23.3 watts, out 25.7 watts


couple of pics, coils just scramble wound as recycled wire, one join in first coil, two joins in second coil


Second pic, bench clutter... running out of room, lol


Ron






Online lancaIV

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #550 on: September 23, 2016, 09:42:44 PM »
Hello i_ron,
how much flexibility are you giving to this machine ?
The rotor cw rotating ? ccw rotating ? cw or ccw rotating ? data results ?
better/same/worser ?
The coils: up-down input,down-up input ? data results ? better/same/worser ?
The rotor vertical,horizontal ?


Sincerely
              OCWL

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #550 on: September 23, 2016, 09:42:44 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #551 on: September 23, 2016, 11:08:00 PM »
I believe this is well documented.

0.5CV^2 sets up a curve both for charging and discharging,, so when you take the energy from a cap at a higher Voltage and discharge 1 Coulomb of charge carriers,, that will drop that cap 1V and raise a discharged cap up 1V,, those 2 energy values are not the same.

The cap charges up in Voltage by charge carriers displaced,, 1F= 1C per 1V,, so there is a volt to charge carrier relationship and that is what the capacitance value is.

Hadnt gone into this that far before.  Maybe that is what is meant by 'dont kill the dipole'?  Never got a good explanation on that before either. Possibly meaning to not take much from a charged cap while its being fed input? Dunno.

Mags

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #552 on: September 23, 2016, 11:32:28 PM »



Hi Ron - Thanks for sharing your results. Again your build is excellent!

Do you know if your Cores are saturating at any point?

As you say, your Input is: 134.75Total

However the Shaft Torque Efficency is very much different under different load conditions:

   2243 RPM: 9Watts / 9.8Watts = 0.918Times
   3143 RPM: 14.28Watts / 8.6Watts = 1.660Times
   4837 RPM: 25.7Watts / 23.3Watts = 1.103Times

So, we see that the Time Rate of Change does matter, but we see that there is an optimium freguency or operation: n = f (2 / p) 60

where

n = shaft rotation speed (rev/min, rpm)
f = frequency (Hz, cycles/sec, 1/s)
p = number of poles

Rearranging, we get: f =  n / (2 / p) / 60 = Optimium Frequency of operation = 52.3833333333333 Hertz

Which is interesting! Maybe beyond this point the Core is being saturated? Or is getting close?
   
Ron, your work is excellent!!! Thanks!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #553 on: September 23, 2016, 11:43:58 PM »
Hello i_ron,
how much flexibility are you giving to this machine ?
snip
Sincerely
              OCWL



Hi OCWL,


I find the RV is a very accurate way to see exactly how much it takes to drive different devices.


Here, in this case, the RV just by itself draws 43 watts.


With the device connected and with no load on the device it draws 105 watts.


So this is 62.6 watts just to drive this device. I think that is the Achilles heel, the fly in the ointment, the finally for further development.


Thanks for your interest and suggestions, 


Ron


Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #554 on: September 23, 2016, 11:53:44 PM »


Hi Ron - Thanks for sharing your results. Again your build is excellent!

Do you know if your Cores are saturating at any point?

As you say, your Input is: 134.75Total

However the Shaft Torque Efficency is very much different under different load conditions:

   2243 RPM: 9Watts / 9.8Watts = 0.918Times
   3143 RPM: 14.28Watts / 8.6Watts = 1.660Times
   4837 RPM: 25.7Watts / 23.3Watts = 1.103Times

So, we see that the Time Rate of Change does matter, but we see that there is an optimium freguency or operation: n = f (2 / p) 60

where

n = shaft rotation speed (rev/min, rpm)
f = frequency (Hz, cycles/sec, 1/s)
p = number of poles

Rearranging, we get: f =  n / (2 / p) / 60 = Optimium Frequency of operation = 52.3833333333333 Hertz

Which is interesting! Maybe beyond this point the Core is being saturated? Or is getting close?
   
Ron, your work is excellent!!! Thanks!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Thanks Chris!  interesting numbers for sure. Math is not one of my strong points so I am amazed at how you do this!!


Now to post mortem this, I was wondering if the flux path length through the laminates was the critical factor? Is this the reason Watson used such long cores in that famous machine???

Anyway, searching for what we learned here and you seem to be able to present this in a very understandable manner... so over to you.

Ron


Edit: saturation is another topic I am not too sure on. With one core locked on with the rotor vertical is a real tug 'o war to get it off, with two cores in place I can just twist one off so easily.... the area is 3/4 X 1 inch so fairly reasonable, that and it shows a square wave at all these RPM's so nothing untoward seems to be taking place?

 

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