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Author Topic: Lenz free generator  (Read 406567 times)

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #375 on: September 07, 2016, 05:17:19 AM »




OK, getting back to the mag base switcher, ready?  it is happening over on another forum


Quote



Hi guys, I will be back in about three or four hours to answer any questions and reply to comments, But in the mean time I wanted to mention something. The switcher is a product of 5 people's work, Myself, Mark, Nicolas, Lawrence and Bruno. It's being referred to as the LaFonte Switcher but it is really the LaFonte Group Switcher.[/size]I don't want all the credit to get attached to me. We work as a team and everyone has stuck with me through all the designs that did not work and I am very lucky to have such a great team. We don't know how many machines we built that might be overunity because we ran out of money before R&D could be completed. Mark has a storage trailer full of our prototypes. Maybe someday we will have the funds to complete the R&D on all of them. There are close to 2000 designs on paper. Maybe with the success of the switcher we can build them all.Back in several hours,Butch[quote/]

[/size]
http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/45/#.V8-AacsrJpQ





Hi Ron - Videos/Channel removed?

This the same by the looks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0FA6JJ0BQ

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #375 on: September 07, 2016, 05:17:19 AM »

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #376 on: September 07, 2016, 06:55:36 AM »
Ok. With that in mind......

Wouldnt that be the same difference as inputting a constant sine wave vs a simple boost circuit?

Like if in the boost circuit we pulse the primary in a polarity that the single rectifier off the secondary does not conduct until the primary current is cut and the collapse induces the secondary and in the direction of the rectifier to the output. Is that not Lenz less?

Mags

To take it a step further...

Let say we have a 1 to 1 ratio transformer. If we apply current to the primary with the secondary open, the inductance will be high, so the input will be low. No Lenz.

If we put a load on the secondary, as it gets induced by the primary, the input to the primary increases. We have Lenz.

So there is a clear reason why the input is lower without the load on the secondary.

Now say we get the transformer to be one that is 180deg out of phase on the secondary. Why would we think that the sec output could be more than the input, because the input is not being affected by the current of the secondary?  If the primary input is lesser because the sec does not affect it, why would we think that the secondary would have more out than what went in? In comparison, running the transformer at its normal AC sine ratings, the input while the sec is loaded is more, but so is the sec output, as compared to being 180deg out of phase pri AND sec. Like the boost converter I described earlier, the input is greater than the output, even if the input is first stored in the transformer, and then dumped to the output. So why might we expect the sec of a 180deg capable transformer to be anything greater than the input??

Im not seeing it.

Mags

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #377 on: September 07, 2016, 08:02:13 AM »

Hi Mags:



To take it a step further...

Let say we have a 1 to 1 ratio transformer. If we apply current to the primary with the secondary open, the inductance will be high, so the input will be low. No Lenz.

If we put a load on the secondary, as it gets induced by the primary, the input to the primary increases. We have Lenz.

So there is a clear reason why the input is lower without the load on the secondary.



To here, I completely agree. You are right as far as I understand your post.




Now say we get the transformer to be one that is 180deg out of phase on the secondary.




Electromagnetic Induction from Primary to Secondary is always ±180 Degrees out of Phase - We dont need to do anything to make this happen.



Why would we think that the sec output could be more than the input, because the input is not being affected by the current of the secondary? 




Yes, this is right, at this point there is 1:1, less losses, transformation of Electric Energy. You get out, what you put In, Less Losses.



If the primary input is lesser because the sec does not affect it, why would we think that the secondary would have more out than what went in?




With a Single Primary Coil and a Single Secondary Coil, there can be no gain!



In comparison, running the transformer at its normal AC sine ratings, the input while the sec is loaded is more, but so is the sec output, as compared to being 180deg out of phase pri AND sec.




Again, Primary and Secondary are always ±180 Degrees out of Phase. This is Electromagnetic Induction and Lenz's Law is the Direction of the Induced EMF.



Like the boost converter I described earlier, the input is greater than the output, even if the input is first stored in the transformer, and then dumped to the output.




Between a Primary Coil and a Secondary Coil, Electromagnetic Induction occurs once!

At this point we give up and cop a loss, mostly small, %10 or there about’s, 1% on the really big Sub Station Transformers.

If we look at a Generator, there is Induction occurring many times all at once all adding to the Total output. All in Phase and all Inducing a Current in the same direction. See: Electrical Energy 101 - Faradays Law of Induction - Part 1

You can see, there is a U Shape winding, three windings in total, in a Step Winding configuration. It is amazing to see, its very true, but any Conductor/Coil that sees a Change in Magnetic Flux is going to have an EMF in it.

Why limit ourselves to once like in a Transformer?




So why might we expect the sec of a 180deg capable transformer to be anything greater than the input??

Im not seeing it.

Mags



All things take time. There is a Curve and this curve is dependent on the determination and understandings acquired.

I really believe, strongly, that the first place to start when learning about Electrical Energy, is how we already do it!!! There is no point re-inventing the wheel when there is a wheel already invented!!! Take your Motor/Generator, how does the EMF in the little Toroid get there?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #377 on: September 07, 2016, 08:02:13 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #378 on: September 07, 2016, 08:31:52 AM »
Then what is it in phase shift we are looking for? 90deg?   ?  And what for?

Like Tesla needed it to operate a motor he designed. I guess so that the motor could run on single phase where available.

Mags

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #379 on: September 07, 2016, 08:56:56 AM »
Then what is it in phase shift we are looking for? 90deg?   ?  And what for?

Like Tesla needed it to operate a motor he designed. I guess so that the motor could run on single phase where available.

Mags


Mags - I was always told when doing my Apprenticeship: "You must ask the right Question"

That is the right Question!

   Primary: Reactive Input - Voltage to Current as close to or more than 90 Degrees Phase Shift.

   Secondary: 180 Degrees to the Input, this will be Real Power, Voltage to Current is Zero Degrees Phase Shift as long as the Load is Resistive.

   Tertiary: In Phase, Zero Degrees to the Input, or very close to Zero. This will also be Real Power! This drives the Input, it is our Counter Balance we talked about above. This Coil makes the Input Reactive, the more Load on this Coil and thus the Secondary, the more Reactive the Input becomes.

Of course these are within some tolerance! Some Angles of Degrees may vary some, 5 or 10 degrees and all Systems are a bit different. So when I say: Zero, or ±180 Degrees, this is just a "Close To" Figure.

All this, is: Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction Newton's Laws of Motion and we have added the Counter-Reaction part.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #379 on: September 07, 2016, 08:56:56 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #380 on: September 07, 2016, 11:15:11 AM »




To give some more insight, and Brad may wish to add or interject if he sees this a bit different, but if we look at a standard Transformer and add an adjustable load...

Slowly increase the Load, or decrease the Load Resistance, and measure the Input Voltage and Current.

What you will see is a slow change in the Voltage to Current Phase Angle. This Angle will start off at maybe 75 Degrees or more 85 Degrees...

As you slowly increase the Load this will close, 70, 65, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25, 20.... Until the core becomes saturated and or Electrical Break Down occurs.

So, what does this mean, what are we seeing? Yes, the total Inductance is being reduced by means of Magnetic Field in the region of the Coil. As the Inductance is lost, the Coil becomes more and more like a Resistor. Current keeps going up and up, as the Reactive part of the Impedance (Z), is lost.

Now, the point, we see a Reactive Power component on the Input at 90 Degrees, this is where the Input Coil sees no real Load, the Load is entirely Counter Balanced if you like. For example: 1 + -1 = 0

Or as above:  5Kg + -5Kg = 0Kg

So the Input does not have too much or any real work because there is a Counter Balancing of Total overall Forces.


I hope this helps some! All experiments are very easily verifiable and provable on the bench!

Today, we see a very detailed description of how to use Lenz's Law to our advantage!

We even had an example!!!

COP: 4.249 thanks to Partzman's excellent work!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #381 on: September 07, 2016, 05:00:08 PM »





Hi Ron - Videos/Channel removed?

This the same by the looks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0FA6JJ0BQ

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org




Sorry, I got the cart before the horse there, I had sarted near the beginning and thought it would lead up to the present.


Surprise for me... the whole thing ended in 2010


Which leaves a mystery... did it work??? why did it end???


http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/195/#.V9Ap3csrJpQ


But it was the mag base concept for sure


Ron








Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #381 on: September 07, 2016, 05:00:08 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #382 on: September 07, 2016, 11:55:31 PM »



Sorry, I got the cart before the horse there, I had sarted near the beginning and thought it would lead up to the present.


Surprise for me... the whole thing ended in 2010


Which leaves a mystery... did it work??? why did it end???


http://overunity.com/8852/lafonte-group-can-turn-off-permanent-magnet-without-work/195/#.V9Ap3csrJpQ


But it was the mag base concept for sure


Ron



Hi Ron,

Most all people don’t have a lot of time, most don’t have a lot of patience, most are easily worn down by small things...

Everyone has their own path, we see much interest at the beginning of the thread, then it runs down and we see that it appears as if we are wasting our time. Even though a thread may have a lot of reads, we see no real progress as we don’t see what others are doing.

A lot of people keep their work secret.

A lot want to take others work and profit from it. Or take the credit for others work.

This, subjects of interest, come and go like the seasons, Change must come slowly and steadily.

But there must be stamina and patience, for things are easily lost without these quality’s!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org



Offline shylo

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #383 on: September 08, 2016, 12:35:05 AM »
When I'm using a solid steel rotor for my pm's it changes the effects I get when using separated pieces of steel as the rotor, Not talking about out-put , how the fields mix together.
Electrical flow is nothing , It's how the fields work together, Electricity is just a by-product.
artv

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #383 on: September 08, 2016, 12:35:05 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #384 on: September 08, 2016, 01:00:50 AM »
When I'm using a solid steel rotor for my pm's it changes the effects I get when using separated pieces of steel as the rotor, Not talking about out-put , how the fields mix together.
Electrical flow is nothing , It's how the fields work together, Electricity is just a by-product.
artv



Hey ArtV,

This is exactly right, Magnetic Field Interactions are important to see and understand.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Offline i_ron

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #385 on: September 08, 2016, 01:48:28 AM »


Hi Ron,

Most all people don’t have a lot of time, most don’t have a lot of patience, most are easily worn down by small things...

Everyone has their own path, we see much interest at the beginning of the thread, then it runs down and we see that it appears as if we are wasting our time. Even though a thread may have a lot of reads, we see no real progress as we don’t see what others are doing.

A lot of people keep their work secret.

A lot want to take others work and profit from it. Or take the credit for others work.

This, subjects of interest, come and go like the seasons, Change must come slowly and steadily.

But there must be stamina and patience, for things are easily lost without these quality’s!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


You are describing the real world there... unfortunately, lol


Anyway that picture of the cast iron mag base model threw me ... I assumed this was what they were building and talking about but in reality Butch's device seems to be some some strange double rotor thing with the coils in the middle... yet they talk about no gap needed and cogging in the gap, so I get confused. I will stick with the one you posted, I can visualize that and understand how it might work.


Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #385 on: September 08, 2016, 01:48:28 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #386 on: September 08, 2016, 02:18:14 AM »

You are describing the real world there... unfortunately, lol


Anyway that picture of the cast iron mag base model threw me ... I assumed this was what they were building and talking about but in reality Butch's device seems to be some some strange double rotor thing with the coils in the middle... yet they talk about no gap needed and cogging in the gap, so I get confused. I will stick with the one you posted, I can visualize that and understand how it might work.


Ron



Hi Ron - Yes good idea. The Wardforce Generator is a very good learning tool. I was never able to get more out than in, but I saw some amazing effects in this device that helped me!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #387 on: September 08, 2016, 05:33:32 AM »
I guess the point Im trying to make is, in my experience, so far, Lenz or no lenz, the inputs and the outputs should be similar as in the In is always more than the Out.

I have been thinking more about the multi core inductors that I had worked with some time back. Some new thoughts on things comes along with time past. No matter what your education level, in the real world, we run into things that are just not taught nor given experiences in. So many times I have run into new things and had seen(in my mind) possible potentials to them, more before I experience the thing.  Like BiFi windings. We were not taught of the capacitance of the windings and how the windings interact capacitively at much greater voltage difference between the 2 separate wires next to each other. The only thing I remember on having 2 wires wound together as such was used in a relay winding, where the higher current winding had the field strong enough to pull the relay closed, and then you switch power to the low current winding to hold the relay switch closed to save/reduce power input if the relay was going to be in the closed position a long time.

Ive done many tests so far on bifi. Some are very useful for certain things. But nothing so far to get OU that I know of or maybe failed to realize along the way. But as time goes on, there is a baby Mags in my head that seems to be working on these things in the background and posts it on the board behind my forehead. ;D

Anyway, this discussion on lenz gave me new thoughts on what some may call, Russian Ragdolls, multi core transformers. I got this one out because I have some new ideas on how to test it in some different configurations and some resonance tests.

So while I think more on that, Im going to try and get these other tests on the toroid, adding secondaries where maybe the stator coil is shorted and we check the output of the secondary as the rotor spins.  Just wondering if loading the secondary will add more drag on the rotor than what the shorted stator winding has already.  I kinda want to say it will be more but will have to see.

Mags


Offline forest

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #388 on: September 08, 2016, 07:08:32 AM »
First, you can take frequency as a energy multiplier if Lenz law is acting not against us.
Second you can use capacitor disruptive discharge.
But in fact if you look closely it all is based on simple laws ...
If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times. The effect is like in Tariel Kapanadze video - device will work (for a while) even when turned off .

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Lenz free generator
« Reply #389 on: September 08, 2016, 07:43:22 AM »
First, you can take frequency as a energy multiplier if Lenz law is acting not against us.
Second you can use capacitor disruptive discharge.
But in fact if you look closely it all is based on simple laws ...
If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times. The effect is like in Tariel Kapanadze video - device will work (for a while) even when turned off .

Hey Forest

"If you know how to avoid "Lenz problem" then you can use magnetic field many times."

So what I think you mean......

Say we have a toroid core and we wind a primary on the left side and say 3 secondaries on the right, then we apply input to the primary. So now we load 1 sec. If no lenz for this transformer, then the input would remain constant no matter how many secondaries we load.

But so far, we dont have that capability.

Makes me think though...

Lets say we have a transformer with 2 secondaries. Each secondary has a diode and a cap in series, one with the diode in a polarity that charges its cap during the on pulse of the primary, and the other secondary with its diode in polarity to collapse current when the input pulse is turned off.

So the primary pulse should be long enough just to fully charge the first secondaries cap, and off long enough to let the collapse current charge the second secondary cap.  Once the first secondary cap is full, the primary field is at max. So did we use the 'field produced' more than once? ;D Is there more total energy in the 2 caps than what was used to initially produce the field?

Mags

 

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