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Author Topic: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!  (Read 59528 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2014, 09:10:12 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUoyuiQTrRA

Milehigh and MarkE have burdened themselves and everyone else with an entrenched and intractable position on the DLE that has turned them both into a big pain in the ass. They leave the rest of us wondering if they're paid by a "Tar Sand Corperation" to feed non-stop haywire into this forum.

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2014, 09:10:12 PM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2014, 12:26:39 AM »
I believe there may be a way to show the delay between the build up of current in the inductor and the propagation of the magnetic field. I will look into it as soon as I get back home-which im hopeing is today. Hard to get things done when your on the road 5 to 6 days a week.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2014, 02:26:23 AM »
Milehigh and MarkE have burdened themselves and everyone else with an entrenched and intractable position on the DLE that has turned them both into a big pain in the ass. They leave the rest of us wondering if they're paid by a "Tar Sand Corperation" to feed non-stop haywire into this forum.
Synchro1 you can wonder about all manner of silly ideas.  The problem is that any idea is only as good as the evidence that supports it.

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2014, 02:26:23 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #108 on: December 22, 2014, 03:11:38 AM »
Hi everyone,

as promised here is a video demo with accurate input power measurements done by using a DC input to the Dremel (universal motor) instead of AC which is difficult to measure.
The power is supplied by a variac connected to a full wave bridge rectifier and a 1000uf DC capacitor to smooth the DC.

Link to video demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TKByKqLV0M

TEST RESULTS:

Input to Dremel on load is 60vdc @ 0.500ma = 30W
Input to Dremel off load is 60.3vdc @ 0.475ma = 28.64W

Power difference is 1.36W of extra power consumption by prime mover when coil is on load

Output is a 25 Ohm load @ 7.84vrms = 2.46W
then we subtract - 1.36W =  1.1W of gained power output which is not supplied by prime mover.


You may of noticed this is not the same coil as the first test since that one was not performing very well (too small), so I made a new one since the first one only had a half a watt gain and I was sure it would of been argued that it's just measurement error.
So I went trough the time, trouble and expense to make this new one so there's no second guessing.
Like I have said, a coil can be made to give more of this effect but more testing needs to be done to understand what are the ideal perimeters as I've seen coils with more gain then this new one but I think it's a good starting point.
A stronger magnet will also give more output. If someone is ready to pay for a larger 1" Diametrically Magnetized magnet, I'm ready to do the test: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RX04X0DIA  please pm me and I'll send you a US address.

COIL INFORMATION:
Coil DC resistance is 2 Ohms.
Coil has 41.56mH with magnet pole in attraction to core and 49.42mH with magnet positioned between poles.
Coil is wound Bifilar but connected in parallel.
I tested the Capacitance between open wires strands and it is 38.46pf with magnet in attraction to core and 38.51pf with magnet between poles.
Coil wire (with enamel) measures 0.8mm and the core is a square Ferrite rod measuring 12mm x 12mm x 90mm long.
I can wind more turns on the coil at a later date to confirm if it give a boost in gain.

This was the first load test and more will be done to find the coils most efficient output (most watts out with minimum effect to prime mover).

Please share your thoughts as to what is contributing to this effect.

Luc

Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #109 on: December 22, 2014, 03:11:48 AM »
I believe there may be a way to show the delay between the build up of current in the inductor and the propagation of the magnetic field. I will look into it as soon as I get back home-which im hopeing is today. Hard to get things done when your on the road 5 to 6 days a week.

That's the "Slight of Hand" those tricksters use to keep eveyrone confused. Faraday induction and all the related laws never change and have zero relevancy as regards DLE. Phase lag in the core material is only thing that matters. Everything else stays the same. It's preposterous to imagine that anything that fantastic is taking place.

We can delay the time it takes for magetizem to travel between an ouput coil and a magnet rotor by lengthening the core. This has nothing what-so-ever to do wth the build up of current in the inductor or the propagation of the magnetic field. The only variable is the "Delay" caused by the phase lag controlled by the extended core material, and the advance or lag relative to rotor magnet TDC.

The core material delay can also be regulated by altering it's permeability. This includes an air core. All the other parameters remain unchanged.

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #109 on: December 22, 2014, 03:11:48 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #110 on: December 22, 2014, 04:23:29 AM »
Synchro1 you can wonder about all manner of silly ideas.  The problem is that any idea is only as good as the evidence that supports it.

@MarkE,

You maintain that "Magnet Wave" is a made up term. It takes time for magnetizem to travel from point A to point B through a core. How do you propose we describe this event?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #111 on: December 22, 2014, 04:32:23 AM »
Luc:

You saw an increased power draw when the generator coil is loaded.  Before you were insisting that there was no increased power draw.  You should try to account for your past errors and try to square them away with your readers.

Quote
Input to Dremel on load is 60vdc @ 0.500ma = 30W
Input to Dremel off load is 60.3vdc @ 0.475ma = 28.64W

Power difference is 1.36W of extra power consumption by prime mover when coil is on load

Output is a 25 Ohm load @ 7.84vrms = 2.46W
then we subtract - 1.36W =  1.1W of gained power output without affecting prime mover.

I hate to say it again but you are leading yourself down a garden path.  Also, you are making real measurements here, you should not be ignoring the resistance of the coil.  The coil capacitance measurement is also meaningless and has no affect and should not be considered.

Here are some issues that have to be factored in:  1) You have no idea what the efficiency of the Dremel is.  2) You have no idea if the efficiency of the Dremel will change under different supply voltages, loads and RPM.  3)  You are drawing a conclusion without having enough data to support the conclusion.  4)  You are not correctly relating the waste heat with the "payload" power that goes into the generator.

Here is your real data:

UNDER LOAD:

Input:  30 watts electrical

Generator output:  2.46 watts
Motor output:  27.54 watts heat
Total output:  30 watts

Note:  The motor heat output power is derived by subtracting the generator output power from the input electrical power.  That is how the power is split in your setup.

NO LOAD:

Input:  28.64 watts electrical

Motor output:  28.64 watts heat

The above is the real analysis of your data.  That's all that you can conclude from your experiment with the caveat that the heat dissipation in the coil windings was not accounted for.

Quote
Output is a 25 Ohm load @ 7.84vrms = 2.46W
then we subtract - 1.36W =  1.1W of gained power output without affecting prime mover.

The above calculation is an invalid calculation.  If you review what I wrote above this should become clear to you.

MileHigh

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #111 on: December 22, 2014, 04:32:23 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2014, 05:16:46 AM »
Luc:

You saw an increased power draw when the generator coil is loaded.  Before you were insisting that there was no increased power draw.  You should try to account for your past errors and try to square them away with your readers.

I hate to say it again but you are leading yourself down a garden path.  Also, you are making real measurements here, you should not be ignoring the resistance of the coil.  The coil capacitance measurement is also meaningless and has no affect and should not be considered.

Here are some issues that have to be factored in:  1) You have no idea what the efficiency of the Dremel is.  2) You have no idea if the efficiency of the Dremel will change under different supply voltages, loads and RPM.  3)  You are drawing a conclusion without having enough data to support the conclusion.  4)  You are not correctly relating the waste heat with the "payload" power that goes into the generator.

Here is your real data:

UNDER LOAD:

Input:  30 watts electrical

Generator output:  2.46 watts
Motor output:  27.54 watts heat
Total output:  30 watts

Note:  The motor heat output power is derived by subtracting the input electrical power from the generator output power.  That is how the power is split in your setup.

NO LOAD:

Input:  28.64 watts electrical

Motor output:  28.64 watts heat

The above is the real analysis of your data.  That's all that you can conclude from your experiment with the caveat that the heat dissipation in the coil windings was not accounted for.

The above calculation is an invalid calculation.  If review what I wrote above this should become clear to you.

MileHigh

The math you're applying here is backwards. The heat loss formula measures a negative value, not a positive one.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2014, 05:22:03 AM »
Corrected the original posting with this new sentence:

Note:  The motor heat output power is derived by subtracting the generator output power from the input electrical power.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2014, 05:22:03 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2014, 05:26:18 AM »
Corrected the original posting with this new sentence:

Note:  The motor heat output power is derived by subtracting the generator output power from the input electrical power.

That only Works if the generator output is less then the input.

Offline dieter

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2014, 05:29:08 AM »
Good work, Luc. What really sucks here is that there is still no ignore-user function in this Forum, which reminds me of why I kept away for several months. You wouldn't want JP Morgan flooding your screen would you?


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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2014, 05:29:08 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2014, 05:31:22 AM »
Luc:

You saw an increased power draw when the generator coil is loaded.  Before you were insisting that there was no increased power draw.  You should try to account for your past errors and try to square them away with your readers.
MileHigh

The test was using a 25 Ohm load. Show me the post where I wrote a 25 Ohm load will have no increased in power draw.
Also, I was testing this with half the RPM and power input then the first test but it's clear to me now that you are not here to help a researcher as you have once again taken the first opportunity to try to discredit me and that I don't know what I'm doing.

You will not be able to support your written statement above and I'm no longer going to bother replying to your posts.

Best to move along now

Regards

Luc

Offline synchro1

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2014, 05:35:28 AM »
Dude's a real Houdini!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #118 on: December 22, 2014, 05:37:13 AM »
That only Works if the generator output is less then the input.
Can you show a case where the generator output is equal to or greater than the input?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Delayed Lenz or not?... post your explaination!
« Reply #119 on: December 22, 2014, 05:41:28 AM »
Good work, Luc. What really sucks here is that there is still no ignore-user function in this Forum, which reminds me of why I kept away for several months. You wouldn't want JP Morgan flooding your screen would you?

What really REALLY sucks here is that people don't do their own homework, and keep posting falsehoods because of it.

Select "Profile" from the menu just below the "OverUnity" banner head at top left.
Select "Account Settings", then under "Modify Profile" select "Buddies/Ignore List", then "Edit Ignore List" and enter in the alias of the poster whose posts you don't want to see.

 

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