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Author Topic: What's wrong with this  (Read 41269 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2014, 02:59:18 AM »

 ;D :o .................... 8)





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2014, 02:59:18 AM »

Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2014, 05:23:39 AM »
@ MarkE
  I get it.
                peace
                    floor

Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2014, 05:30:32 AM »
Thanks
           for the support ya all
           and the timley reminders last night
           Right on.
           
            And thanks for the offers, but homey don play that s**** unless he has to.
            No one here at OU was connected to the suicide event.
                                             

                                    peace = no war
                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2014, 05:30:32 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2014, 06:03:37 AM »
Are those blue berries blueberries???
    Now your getting close,but no energy is required to condence this gas into fluid.
OK, so it's your idea that you are going to condense gas into denser liquid so that you can sink, and that when you make the transition in that direction, you will rely only on passive cooling to do so?
There maybe a 2 to 3 degree C temp rise during the gas to liquid transition, but what dose that matter when your in a sea of cold water. Once the vessle reaches the sea floor, the transition is reversed, and liquid once again becomes gas. This increases the vessel's displacement area, and also decreases its weight-and up she goes again.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 11:30:35 AM by tinman »

Offline MarkE

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2014, 02:39:24 PM »
There maybe a 2 to 3 degree C temp rise during the gas to liquid transition, but what dose that matter when your in a sea of cold water. Once the vessle reaches the sea floor, the transition is reversed, and liquid once again becomes gas. This increases the vessel's displacement area, and also decreases its weight-and up she goes again.
I think that you may have overlooked that the energy to reinflate the gas containers is at least equal to the energy removed from the gas by the sea water heat sink.  Put another way, you can calculate the energy required to expel some amount of ballast sea water as the product of the mass of that ejected ballast and the distance to the sea surface.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2014, 02:39:24 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2014, 10:14:32 PM »
@MarkE

quote "And yet, you fail to see the irony in your own posts.  It's a curious world." from MarkE

quote "It's not a question of irony it's a question of why you are pretending  not to uderstand what's
going on here. I see your comment as lacking honesty. I could be wrong. However, I don't belive that you think I'm wrong.
Did you not just observe in your own mind, the movments which were to convince youself that you
are being honest. It's easier to lie convincingly if one can set it up first in their own mind.
If you wish to remain in this LOW CLASS STATE of mind, It's not my place to try to force you to change.
But it does mess up the communicating with when one of the parties wont be honest."  from floor

Correct me if I am  wrong here,  but I think that you felt as if your were being attacked at that point in the converstion.

Also that you thought that it was ironic that some one you perceived as attacking you, would at the same time be
adressing the issue of poor comunication practices.

I see now that this was the result of your failure to comperhend the basics of the topic.  Go ahead and review the first
few pages of the topic.


Offline tinman

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2014, 10:24:38 PM »
I think that you may have overlooked that the energy to reinflate the gas containers is at least equal to the energy removed from the gas by the sea water heat sink.  Put another way, you can calculate the energy required to expel some amount of ballast sea water as the product of the mass of that ejected ballast and the distance to the sea surface.
No,i didnt over look anything,in fact,the more heat that is removed from the transition from gas to liquid,the more energy we get back.The energy ratio from liquid to gas,and then from gas back to liquid is about 10:7.5. In other words we have a 25% loss at this time. But then come's my previous questions-what energy can be gained from a constant 500kg pull over 3.2km. Another way to see this is looking at the under water hydro turbine's,where as the flow of water past the propellors generate's electricity,but in this case,we are moving the propellors through the water to gain our water flow over those propellors-->3.2km up,and 3.2km down.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2014, 10:24:38 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2014, 10:51:01 PM »
@tinman
Quote
No,i didnt over look anything,in fact,the more heat that is removed from the transition from gas to liquid,the more energy we get back.The energy ratio from liquid to gas,and then from gas back to liquid is about 10:7.5. In other words we have a 25% loss at this time. But then come's my previous questions-what energy can be gained from a constant 500kg pull over 3.2km. Another way to see this is looking at the under water hydro turbine's,where as the flow of water past the propellors generate's electricity,but in this case,we are moving the propellors through the water to gain our water flow over those propellors-->3.2km up,and 3.2km down.


I hear ya, I once did similar experiments. While completely shit faced I once bent over very carefully and jerked furiously upwards hard and fast on my heavy bootstraps. The next thing I know I'm waking up on the floor... why my head must have hit the roof with such force it damn near broke my neck and knocked me out cold. The ratio was 10 shots of Rye whiskey to my 7.5 inch bootstraps if I remember correctly which is kind of questionable but somehow amazing.
There may be something to this 10:7.5 ratio, I may need to try this on the roof of a moving car or bus to confirm my suspicions but I'm still trying to figure out how not to spill my drinks in the process...that would be wrong.


AC


Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2014, 11:53:33 PM »
@MarkE

What's ironic from my point of view rather than from yours ?

The topic sky rockets to a large number of readings, while the subject gets lost.

Is it a waste of band width ? maybe maybe not.

I tend to think so.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2014, 11:53:33 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2014, 12:13:57 AM »
@ markE

@ MarkE
 
                            The following is another "style" of reply.  It is an example of poor communication and some
thing we can all work on.  I'm playing fair here by giving you fore warning. I don't have to, except,  to
keep from falling to this kind of perons level, and because I don't really wish to cause you any harm.
................................................
Mark, sometimes when you come into a topic, it's like a vampire has come into the room sucking all of the life out of it,
while at the same restoreing that once fresh air with the smell of some rotting carcus he's been feeding on.
Yes that's It, vampire breath.

I think it's like a suffocating ASSUMING / CONDESCENIG  air.

Is this because you have some kind of a disability?  Is this, perhaps the cause of this assuming /condescending
behavior ?  Has this allways been a issue for you in your life?  An issue perhaps from a controlling mother or father
that used a similar method ?
............................

On the other hand the following comment, does not offend me, and for lots of reason.

................................................
flo, sometimes when you come into a topic, it's like a vampire has come into the room sucking all of the life out of it,
while at the same restoreing that once fresh air with the smell of some rotting carcus he's been feeding on.
Yes that's It, vampire breath.

I think it's like a suffocating ASSUMING / CONDESCENIG  air.

Is this because you have some kind of a disability?  Is this, perhaps the cause of this assuming /condescending
behavior ?  Has this allways been a issue for you in your life?  An issue perhaps from a controlling mother or father
that used a similar method ?
............................

Different context and so on.

Offline MarkE

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2014, 12:18:23 AM »
@MarkE

quote "And yet, you fail to see the irony in your own posts.  It's a curious world." from MarkE

quote "It's not a question of irony it's a question of why you are pretending  not to uderstand what's
going on here. I see your comment as lacking honesty. I could be wrong. However, I don't belive that you think I'm wrong.
Did you not just observe in your own mind, the movments which were to convince youself that you
are being honest. It's easier to lie convincingly if one can set it up first in their own mind.
If you wish to remain in this LOW CLASS STATE of mind, It's not my place to try to force you to change.
But it does mess up the communicating with when one of the parties wont be honest."  from floor

Correct me if I am  wrong here,  but I think that you felt as if your were being attacked at that point in the converstion.

Also that you thought that it was ironic that some one you perceived as attacking you, would at the same time be
adressing the issue of poor comunication practices.

I see now that this was the result of your failure to comperhend the basics of the topic.  Go ahead and review the first
few pages of the topic.
Apparently you either do not see the irony or relish in it.  It is indeed a curious world.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2014, 12:18:23 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2014, 12:25:52 AM »
@ MarkE

Some other coment or context might have ofended me, or have been seen as a threat in some
way, reputation and so on.




Offline MarkE

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2014, 12:29:51 AM »
No,i didnt over look anything,in fact,the more heat that is removed from the transition from gas to liquid,the more energy we get back.The energy ratio from liquid to gas,and then from gas back to liquid is about 10:7.5. In other words we have a 25% loss at this time. But then come's my previous questions-what energy can be gained from a constant 500kg pull over 3.2km. Another way to see this is looking at the under water hydro turbine's,where as the flow of water past the propellors generate's electricity,but in this case,we are moving the propellors through the water to gain our water flow over those propellors-->3.2km up,and 3.2km down.
Tinman, so far what you have described as far as I can tell is that you intend to collapse a volume, thereby allowing seawater ballast in by releasing thermal energy from the ballast.  Volume decreases under the ideal gas law until a phase change that then results in a step-wise drop in volume.  Contact with the sea water continues to sink energy until some time later when you either choose to reverse the process or thermal equilibrium is established with the sea water heat sink.  Is this correct?

You intend the increased density to cause the submersible to sink 3.2km.  Is this correct?

You intend to reclaim energy that the submersible gives up in its descent using propeller driven generators and batteries.  Is this correct?

You then intend to raise the submersible by ejecting ballast that you have taken on.  Is this correct?

You intend to eject the ballast by adding thermal energy back to your fluid so that it returns to the gas phase and then develops sufficient pressure to reinflate the containers.  Is this correct?

You believe that you can collect energy on the way up using propeller driven generators and batteries.  Is this correct?

Once we get square on the particulars I will explain the various fallacies.

Offline MarkE

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2014, 12:35:28 AM »
@ MarkE

Some other coment or context might have ofended me, or have been seen as a threat in some
way, reputation and so on.
This is just getting stranger and stranger.  If you have some point I have no idea what it is.

Offline Floor

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Re: What's wrong with this
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2014, 12:40:58 AM »
@MarkE

First I'd like to look at what are some of  the consequences / results are.

1. topic soars

2. real value of topic is lost in the frey (probably)
 a. People may disagree as to what this value is.
 b. The value of the topic is in part defined by how many can learn from it.
 c. People are at different levels in their pursuit of knowledge.
 d. People disagree as to what is a valid discussion.

3. goon squads an apear, posts increase, topic soars more.

 

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