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Author Topic: Food for Thought: Our World  (Read 263215 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #645 on: December 18, 2019, 04:17:29 PM »
Maintaining the grid and keeping enough power on it is a heavy expense
But so is filling and shipping tens of millions of batteries
Micro-generation also has a heavy cost because of the increased # of generators

The solution would have to lie in personal generation units
and possibly a voluntary gridding of the personal gens to create a power commune

Last I checked the U.S. “avg.” was something like 11-13c/kWhr
With some states paying as little as 4 cents and others as high as 45c
If your Tesla uses a 5kW battery it costs 50c/hr to drive it.
Which amounts to about $10/day

You have a 600W television, and a gaming system running nonstop
A fridgerator, microwave, a/c unit...... well now the house costs 12$/day to run
Your monthly electric cost might be $700
Which is comparable to your rent in some places.

We can talk about “how cheap” it is,
But in reality, energy costs govern our lives.
We rarely go anywhere or move any product without paying an energy cost.
And there’s a tax on every BTU

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #646 on: December 18, 2019, 04:48:16 PM »
smokey2, where you get "5 KW battery" and who is driving 20 times this value (5 KWh x. 0,1 USD)  per day. ?Taxi-driver,okay !
 Normal people needs 2 and more hours for consuming 100  KWh(10 USD/0,5 USD x 5 KWh) as "drive time" ( without rush-hour still-stand) with this electric/chemical  capacity by legal streets velocity !

Taking the "old-tech" GM Impala with 12 KWh/100 Km average battery capacity consume ( without regeneration)
this are by US-legal max high-way velocity 90 Km-h  10 hours drive time  per day !

When Tesla Motors is not able to deliver the electric car industry standard about max.  9 KWh (12 KWh - 3 KWh brake energy regeneration) consume then they have nothing technological special. !
The Tesla Motors Model S is equipped with 85 KWh battery capacity. !
Do you mean a private household battery-set, delivered f. e.  by this company. ?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 09:56:09 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #647 on: December 18, 2019, 05:19:39 PM »
Good morning lancaIV, thanks for the informative reply.

Future technical standart of energetic consume by given existent technology :

112 sqm house as cube 1750 Wp and as dome 1200 Wp caloric heat aequivalent in the U.S. by average winter climate condition
by C.O.P. 10 heat  appliances a. heat pump  b. friction heater.  c. IR-heater 175 Wp and 120 Wp electric

Optimized oeko-energie appliances decrease daily "intelligent household" given 3 KWh consume to 1,5 KWh,with better electric motor,energy saving heat elements and special coatings.
Hot water we get  by new building constructions demanded solar collectors today or air-water-heat pumps or friction heater !
The accumulated private household electricity consume for 4 habitants/112 sqm in future:  < 1000  KWh electric

1400 KWh solar energy and 15% efficiency solar electric converter per year 210 KWh gain, with mirrors up to 266 KWh. 

So 4-5 sqm panel area for the average consume sufficient
By 60% efficiency photovoltaic converter and 1400 KWh solar radiation/sqm 1,5 sqm panel area sufficient.

Because sun energy is periodic,day/night,summer/winter, there will be supplementing  alternatives :

wind,water,active solar/photovoltaic,magnet batteries/amplifier

In summer for cooling we have the surplus " summer heat" energy for electric cooling  beginning with ventilation

Calculating with 5 EURO-cents/KWh on-demand SELF-generating system this means 50 EUROs per year heat+ hot water+ kitchen/bath electric appliances energetic costs. .

50/12 months/4 habitants per household :  1,05 EUROs per capita/month   electricity costs

                                                EXPENSIVE or CHEAP

1,05/30,5 days :                     3,5 EURO-cents per day/capita

                                                 3,5/130 EURO-cents per day

                                                 3,5/100 EURO-cents "child hood costs" per day


For well organized G-20 house-holds and well earning  3,5/1000.  EURO-cents per day/capita
                                                                                                                    (~ 1220 EUROs per month household income)

                                             energy costs are ridicolous as "concerning theme". !

Well organized house-holds knows that the change began 1972 :  THE LIMIT OF GROWTH

1972 related some years before somebody offered "future living style" :
And 1972,the Olympic Village in Munich as "future concept": the"over-ground"  car-free village ( only underground)

This eco-political "car-free" movement had 1973 the "peak":
           car-free Sundays and car-free high-ways

« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 10:24:09 PM by lancaIV »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #648 on: December 19, 2019, 08:30:01 AM »
Americans aren’t efficient at all.
Most of our citizens don’t even care that Sheetrock comes infected with
Toxic Black Mold....

We DEFINITELY don’t care that its’ not thermally efficient.
We just put cloth in our walls to try and help.
Our average homes are so inefficient that the thermostat kicks on
3-5 timer per hour.
The pull from the start-up of the compressor and blower system
wastes more energy that it ‘should’ take to bring the temp of the house
back up to the users desired setting....
We THEN pay for the energy to do that until the thermostat shuts off again.

We know how to build a habitat that is so thermally efficient we don’t even need an a/c system
But we don’t, because it’s too much work or not industry ready or whatever excuse we use to keep
doing the same crap.....
We need a leader with some degree of oversight to see the bigger picture
Not just the dollars in their pocket

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #649 on: December 19, 2019, 11:48:26 AM »
We have in science knowledge neither a. G. U. T.  nor a G.U.P. !
And what helps us to know about low-/no energy need devices for our daily needs if we can not financial afford these. ?!
Sometimes academical advices are also far from reality :" ........eliminate need for indoor heating."
Only 12 W for body ambient conditioning,a success related to Daimler-Benz 90' R&D e-wear  invention with 80 Welectric consume  ! But I decide mainly for outdoor use. !

Argumentation : living at the sea-side,coast/beach 500 meters away the inhouse humidity/condensation needs to be diminished and this is with "12 W" body AC not possible,illness and textiles/mobiliar damage risk. !
Heat comparison : hot water electric 1500 W kettle and 1 liter water heated in 5 minutes and this hot water in an hot water gum bottle as body/bed warmer ~ 125 Wh hot water/4-5 hours "warming effect"~ 25 W/h

Condensation temperature : % humidity dependent 10-15 °Celsius inhouse caloric  temperature. !
Condensation and as effect/consequence mold is today one of the greatest problems in modern " pseudo-evacuated" modern construction buildings.( blower door teste !)

For old houses I would recommend these electric candle heater with dehumifier effect concept :
The british inventor wrote about 2 x 200 W devices for (his ?) semi-detached house and 0°C to 14,5°C ambient temperature condition for beside heating also solution  !

[14,5°C was/is in much private households in winter/cold weather time average reality world-wide. !
German CIVIL COURTS DECISION: too less, minimum 20°Celsius in average in-house caloric temperature
Who buys with credit his home is by law not home owner;  legal term definition : Owner/Eigentuemer( credit-free) and credit-holder/User/Besitzer ;

can the credit giver= by law home owner - demand the home user to heat up to these minimum 20°C average temperature  ? YES ,HE CAN !  Credit object damage risc and worth lost risc ! ]

And 25W for the "small bedroom"

Undefined : sqm/sqft living area

Because several billions Earth habitants are living in deep-max 0°C climate areas this can be helpfull. !

As possible improvement  the heat bulb heater/dehumidifyer seriell connection.  :

2x200 W and 14,5°C are in personal absence ( work-time/holiday cabin et cet.) "physiological-physical ( but not legal if not home owner) sufficient,
for higher room temperature 3x/4x/? 200 W ( up to 2000 W units as by the inventor descripted) for average 16°/18°/20°also configureable. !

Attention : not linear calculation possible, condensation ( % humidity) enthalpy gains relationship !

Light/heat bulbs by same given nominal Wattage works with different radiation effect !
Also here since the 80' some technical improvements. !
Also with coatings on the lamp holder surface the results are improveable  !

Science = knowledge each one is in his life his scientist

Such an offer probably in the next years industrial and later commercial available. :
Actually ,by technical similar concept prototype,I estimate the 1 KW AC-amplifyer costs with 250 EUROs in seriell/mass production ( without over-head costs) for many people a technical solution for their ecologic energy use,but by their purse content : financial not affordable the buy, only possible as " device rent/lease"

   4x 200W e-candle heater/dehumidifyer and the amplifyer effect for such a semi-detached house
                        ~ 80 W-net electric input for warm and relative dry inhouse

                Which was the Daimler-Benz body ac e-wear Wattage in the 90'. ?

        Each one has to find his own right solution  !

Perfect ,by german academical theory, constructed 10 W/sqm "PASSIVHOUSE"-buildings have in real use 20 W/sqm consume ( Fraunhofer Institute study ), G.U.T./G.U.P. : + 100%  ::)

The cheapest solution which me is known of electricity delivery= hydro-electric device , by costs calculation from material and industrial transformation to ready to use product and later physical and financial R.O.I.,is :
= multi-waterbattery-set
                         Future 112 sqm private4 habitants household energy consume
1000 KWh electricity per year ~ 2,74 KWh per day means

                                  274 Wh per day magnet amplifyer input need per day
1 MEREDIEU WATERBATTERY  electricity delivery  per day 12V x 1,5 Ah x 24 h = 432 Wh
                                                         But: per battery only  18 Wp per hour

1000 Wp consume after magnet amplyfier 100 Wp x AC-AC magnet amplyfier Wattinrushpeak :

          55 MEREDIEU WATERBATTERIES a 18 Wp DC~ 1000 W. to DC-AC inverter ( inverter Wattinrushpeak  ?)         
         to AC-AC magnet amplifier

                               Or WATERBATTERY loads conventional battery(  with the higher - accumulated- Wp)

After each 30 hours full battery load  : water as fuel re-fill

or more WATERBATTERIES f.e. 7 days= 7 WATERBATTERIESand 1 time per week refill

          Now :

DC or AC ( inverter) micro-grid and the Wattpeak and Wattinrushpeak knowing  if all needed electric devices in parallel or seriell-micro grid conection are in action/function  !
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 02:06:44 PM by lancaIV »

Online ramset

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #650 on: December 19, 2019, 03:41:21 PM »
Smokey,and Yes The  closed cell Foam concretes are amazing for cost and insulation ,and now even 3D printable
with relative ease. [95  +  % savings over conventional construction

Sooo much room for growth and improvement .
and when we can connect to the wheel works of the universe ? no burning of forests or fossil .....resources to refresh and restore...Zillions of upgrades and updates much work to do ...[Lanca's New Customers and industries a new...

we need to be good stewards of this planet and work "with" each other not against.
 There will be much to do

Offline lancaIV

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 07:47:23 PM by lancaIV »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #652 on: December 20, 2019, 01:31:31 AM »
If we attach weights and pulleys and a simple gearbox
To a bicycle and a generator

People can get their daily ride while cranking up the weights
That will power their generator all day.

And clear up bike traffic on the roads

Offline onepower

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #653 on: December 20, 2019, 01:39:56 AM »
IMO Utilizing this open source FE forum for political topics to attempt to divide the membership, support Chaos and stifle build discussion beyond weird .

I don't think so, what is politics but elected people managing the interests of a country which ultimately includes corporate and personal interests?. People make any given topic divisive not any topic in itself and we should be able to debate any matter like adults shouldn't we?. I mean were all adults not children and it's almost 2020.

and to think that any figurehead leader propped up on the world stage could have any autonomy from the string pullers ??even weirder.
divide and conquer .....its in the play book.
for a person who has no interest in open sourcing FE technology sure keep busy ...doing other things.

That is your opinion however my post was on my concerns that many politicians are not even trying to hide there corruption and dishonesty anymore which I find very troubling. As Trumps lawyers said, they believe he cannot be convicted of "any crime" and his crimes cannot even be investigated. Obviously this is moving towards a dictatorship which could easily declare all free energy illegal with no justification ... this is my point.

On a side note, I was watching some video's by Steven Greer who I think is awesome and I think he nailed it. We are still primitive and we still think along the lines of "tribes" with respect to our beliefs. So while science and technology may be moving forward our thinking and beliefs have not so much. Sure we can claim to be "civilized" however the forums, society and the people we elect to represent our interests have not changed so much. At some point it should become obvious that Trump, a 70+ year old business person with no comprehension of science and technology is not a leader more so a dinosaur.


Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #654 on: December 20, 2019, 02:11:45 AM »
If we attach weights and pulleys and a simple gearbox
To a bicycle and a generator

People can get their daily ride while cranking up the weights
That will power their generator all day.

And clear up bike traffic on the roads
Someone during and after the 1973 oilcrisis thought about electric movement :

Ward Leonard drive system :
With improved 2019 electric motor  and electric ( coated? double winding)  generator the velocity-peak and range ?

How difficult is it to improve conventional electric motors  in their efficiency ?

Also here to find ,from 1981, "bicycle concepts of the future": as body power electric assistant

We have the technology, developed in the last decades by industry or private inventors in their hobby room,
when there is a need the consumer can improve his non-electric bike to e-Moped  !
What today is in offer, one example :
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:49:14 AM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #655 on: December 20, 2019, 01:18:35 PM »
From 2011 ( not actualized)  :
-15%             2 USD        per day/capita

next 56%     2-10 USD per day/capita

71% from 2011   total   7 billions habitants ~ 5 billions
                 $/€ in local currency parity  : " local goods/ service and local prices " - parity ?


                    For some a surprise : the comparison of GDP nominal and GDP by PPP

                        A New WORLD RANKING G20 view and "emerging countries" reality feeling

                       SOURCE:          INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND

                       GERMANY ~ RUSSIA.     CHINA > U. S. A.  and more

                      G7 by GDP-PPP without FRANCE and the UNITED KINGDOM

                      PPP : also called " International Dol(lar"
                     Good to have a 1912 " world numbers" book with nations comparison :
                    under worldwide empirial "GOLD-STANDART"-parity condition  8) = PPP -old

                          Western parents + male child + female child=  FAMILY IDEAL ":

                      With  2 parental times two "Grands-" = 8 habitants "Western Grands-Family IDEAL" ?
                      Or the Grands divided by parents and their sister/brother their homes =
                      6 house habitants as " 3 Generation Grands-Family " IDEAL. ?
                      With 80/90/100 + years life expectance : 4-Generation families in one house. ?
                      Couple/families divorces quote national/international. ?  Average 50% !?

                     Modular homes. ? For 4 th/3rd/parents/child generation each one their own " living space"  ?
                     Our "western" social system was never build for such a society : high life expectance + divorces

                         4 private household habitants x 10 USD per day x 30,5 days/month.
                                           ~ 1220 USD PPP per month household income     

                                      How many from this four "in work/employment" ?                                             
                                                  In school/ university study ? monthly costs ?

                          For the UPPER 1/3 WORLDPOPULATION THE Max/Min-limit                         
                          For the LOWER 2/3 WORLDPOPULATION THE Min/Max- limit

32-38 sqm "Starter  family house" : UN. Habitat/ / Elemental ( international architecture challenge)
72-78 sqm "Expanded family house" : are this 3-generation houses. ? How the " olds" are treated international. ?
                     Who cares the " olds"  ?

What a house shall/ can cost. ? mobile or stationary fixed. ? What are the local " plots" costs/prices ? Buy/rent. ?
With bath-room ?! With kitchen ?

This are "living standart"- class extras. ! Tokio : "capsule"-tower : single living area without kitchen. !

What a vehicle shall/can cost ? Material ?
Bicycle/tricycle/4-wheels/ electric / ic or ec engine drive. ? Compressed Air ?
What do conventional household electric appliances cost ? In "energy saving" modi  ?

What an energy/electricity delivering generator shall/ can cost ?
And the nutrition/alimentation+ trinkable water + health care + .......  !?

For the poorest , for the 2/3-1/3-limit population. global. !?

We can do something,but not the local/regional/national governments their ( payed ) work and obligations. !

And there are millions of NGO- members in active work for all of us, more or less rich or poor. !

Online ramset

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #656 on: December 20, 2019, 02:47:17 PM »

OnePower California USA seems empty when you get away from the cities...yet it holds almost more people than Canada and Australia combined.
we are not over populated ...we just need the resource to Move and grow .

Tribes ?yeesh you are really stuck on divide and conquer huh ?
FE could turn Africa into Eden... Oz too
and offer Autonomy to live outside grids... grow our forests clean our seas ...
no wars over oil and resources ,even manipulating the "matter" to suit [nano and ?? ....we grow in many ways  science has gone beyond sci fi
stop adding bricks to their walls ...fear ...and pointing at the pointless or each other [blame]...wrap your head around the future [Now]
a lot to do ...TONNES of business for Lanca and all his new stuff
Lanca maybe you could be Mayor somewhere ..lots of good discussion/ideas
 we can fix these things ,smarter than ever before ...all the worlds knowledge at our fingertips soon no language barriers  [auto translate]
Ash [Panacea}used to have a Mission statement about FE and Gov'ts
gotta give him a ring .....


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #657 on: December 20, 2019, 04:10:44 PM »
$2-10/day is the lower class of the U.S. homeless population
Which continues to grow exponentially

The upper class of the homeless sector has income that greatly exceeds
their living expenses.

Meanwhile the working class continues to live on a credit deficit.

Economists/capitalists are inhumane
Soon people will wake up to the games they play on our lives.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #658 on: December 20, 2019, 04:53:54 PM »
From Italia at first the W. A. S. P.  Gaia 3d house for 900 EUROS/20sqm house
and the next 3d-project :
When locally small car manufacturer can build/print in european countries in this 6000 EUROs and later below price class the great mass vehicle car companies get selling problems. !

FIAT/CHRYSLER-PEUGEOT-CITROEN and twelf names in this fusion more ,beside ex-GM ADAM OPEL ,
Same/similar  car modells by the same Car-Trust : which "Name" dies first. ? Or will become sell out. ?

What is actually the pay-back credibility rating from these car companies : Toyota,VW,FIAT/C.......  ?
Their actual market tax,with/-out ECB their tax and company value manipulating financial papers buy ?

In nearer future. ? Are these in future "second market"- industries but " too big to fail " cause local/regional/national GDP nominal importance. ?

But will they all not in future diminish their workers number in minimum 50%. ?

Independant to have losts or wins ? Beginning with fossil energy to electric drive worker capacity surplus. !
Then the " virtual management" ! The international distribution fob factory  !

Small start-ups as concurrence by costs per car and flexibility ( without worker unions barriers) !
Probably 100 minifactories a 10000 cars p.a.  will be easier to manage as 1 x 1000000 units output. !

p.s.: sm0key,there are many economists/capitalists today world-wide living as home-less people !
         They participated by credit-games snd loosed not only their home !
          Also a simple divorce can make some part poor ! Probably also this couple their childs !

          Lost of "SAVE FUTURE"- VISION

Online ramset

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Re: Food for Thought: Our World
« Reply #659 on: December 20, 2019, 06:26:54 PM »
Swimming in an FE Sea
“Lost of Future “

Surely you jest ?

Like a turkey drowns in the rain storm?
Head held high mouth open ?