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Author Topic: Why doesn't negative voltage work?  (Read 8122 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« on: December 05, 2014, 05:46:09 AM »

This is a basic Kacher, with NPN, and variable resitor between base and collector, and a low inductance coil to a high inductance coil... the high H coil is connected with a small capacitor (can be tuned for an amount of power transfer; a larger cap requires larger currents etc...) ... the capacitor is attached to an AV plug around (second picture shows it better than the schematic layout) around the diode...


The second circuit which is usually driving by induction is a coil (third picture; I have the resistor across the coil disconnected for now... (first picture ) )... this collects a DC voltage in the capacitor.

Normally; the pink circuit isn't in place; it's denoted that way as that's what I'm adding that's confusing me.


So this circuit I have collects up to 54V/ I have it tuned by LED load to be limited to -15V. (fewer LEDs draw more amps to compensate and balance to a fixed point)


I connected ground to positive of the battery which makes negative... -12V ...


I have a volt meter attached with black to ground and red to probe... at various points after making the ground and diode connection there's lots of negative voltage ... from ground to emitter, ground to base, ground to collector of the kacher transistor... all over... why?


from ground to positive or negative of the battery 0 volts to ground...
current draw was 0; but obviously the circuit ran down, so I much have a pulse confusing my meter..


But; why is negative any more than -12V from ground? considering the cap at -15V is barely felt by the battery... but once I connect it, that point remains at -15, and all others relatively lower...


I connected between some diodes capacitors... I was using the diode/capacitor chain to isolate my power supply (and still had negative current draw states at less than a Mhz)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:13:06 AM by d3x0r »

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Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« on: December 05, 2014, 05:46:09 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 06:49:33 AM »
Both of the diodes at the battery are reversed biased.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 08:13:36 AM »
Both of the diodes at the battery are reversed biased.
Ya reversed the diodes an reversed battery too... should have left battery alone.

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 08:13:36 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 08:49:48 AM »
I can't figure out from the schematic (reverse biased diodes, preventing the battery from doing anything, whaaat?) or the description what is going on.

If you present a clear schematic with components actually shown as they are actually connected in your actual experiment... it would help.

(Try drawing the schematic neatly on a piece of paper with a heavy pen or marker, then photograph the drawing. That's a lot better and easier than using a paint program to make the sketch. Or, you could take a little more time and do it on a circuit-diagram making graphics program, although I don't usually bother to do that myself.)

But whatever you do, please make sure component polarities are correctly indicated on the schematic! I don't know how to interpret a circuit that has the battery blocked off by two reverse-biased diodes, other than "It must be magic".

Either that or you have one heck of a strong electrosmog situation happening. Can you pick up radio stations with the fillings in your teeth? Got unexplained headaches, see strange flashes of light in the dark? 
 :-\

Any way, voltage and voltage polarity are _relative_.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 09:53:49 AM »
I can't figure out from the schematic (reverse biased diodes, preventing the battery from doing anything, whaaat?) or the description what is going on.

If you present a clear schematic with components actually shown as they are actually connected in your actual experiment... it would help.

they're not reverse biased anymore; I had fixed the drawing and reuploaded. 
drawing version 1) the ground/charge diode were on the wrong side,
drawing version 2) so rather than move them I flipped the diodes... but also flipped the battery; so they were still backwards[/size]
drawing version now) it's not reverse biased... I checked the schematic symbol for battery and the longer bar is + ... so electron current flows through the diodes as if they represent a check valve... - to + ...; and flipped battery to original orientation...


it's just a transistor, variable resistor (scribble to the right of transistor, marked with blue text)
some caps and coils; inductances don't really matter...

Lk1 and Lk2 are kacher coils..   Lg is a self resonant coil.

Inductances should be realtively small, and the internal capacitance of Lg should be 1/10000th the multi-hundred uF cap.... or vice versa should be 10000x *shrug* bigger smaller doesn't matter...

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 09:53:49 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2014, 10:26:25 AM »
That's not to say it doesn't 'work' it uhh.. does strange things with the biasing...


like why is the collector -27V? shouldn't be more than -12?
----
went back and added more notes of known values; the transistor doesn't seem to matter... larger volt/amp seems to be better... though... right now... I'm getting decent voltage output with < 300mA input..... so maybe I can even go small signal...


87uH coil resonates at harmonics of 16Mhz (4mhz, 1mhz, 528Khz) I can use any of these to get voltage output... lower frequency is higher power transfer (higher current similar voltage)


------
This is all really Ruslan stuff simplifed to just the kacher and coil as last demonstrated...   just got to a point that I seemed to have decent output; but the 1Mhz frequency is messing up my meter still... even through the diodes and capacitors...








Offline Groundloop

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 10:43:57 AM »
.

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 10:43:57 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Why doesn't negative voltage work?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 01:20:32 PM »
circuit implemented


http://youtu.be/3af2e6JZjVc


I have a similar sim from falstad probably...


first image: (this uses signal generator instead of kacher... )
second image: not kacher either... but mazilli; extra complication for series resistances... so in some ways my 'napkin sketch' is better.


was also testing my new digitizing input thing... learning new hand eye coordination; and I dunno... maybe cause it's my handwriting it's more clear to me...




 

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