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Author Topic: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues  (Read 26517 times)

Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2014, 06:33:54 AM »
now we just sit back and watch how many people try to own this information on other sites as if they discovered it ;) When people say it died with him they where wrong he left it for someone who thinks like me to find that's all.

Domenic
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 09:38:40 AM by dom444 »

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2014, 06:33:54 AM »

Offline lumen

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2014, 02:14:48 AM »
dom444
I'm not sure I see a viable solution to a working wheel.
Is it possible the lifting weight raises a weight on the outer edge then rolls off to the next mechanism and lifts another weight.
If each mechanism has it's own lifting weight then nothing changes since it's simply a lever and suffers the same weight/distance = no gain syndrome.
 

Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2014, 05:19:26 AM »
back again I have been away last few days, i think i will hold off speculating on the mechanism for a bit i have started a test setup of one mechanism as i believe he did it, but there is a few tweaks and areas that need attention, especially the counter weights but i can say as it stands with out the weights it turns nicely the bottom weight retracts the top weight snaps out, and with out the peg or its placement worked out yet, hard to say how it will go.
it is very simple in construction but the weights have to be right and there is a spring involved  connected to the weights.

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2014, 05:19:26 AM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2014, 11:06:43 PM »
another find tells me i am on the right track don't you think and if about now you can't see it something wrong.

question what is one hand on and the other hand holding ?

Bill ("ovyyus") has his own Bessler site http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html that you have reproduced the picture from - this is Bill's own artistic rendition & is recent (it is for sale as a poster etc).

Bessler has his hand resting on pages from "Maschinen Tractate", a technical manuscript of PM designs never published by Bessler but produced by John Collins - his other hand is holding pages of etchings of Besslers wheels from Bessler's "Das Triuamphirende" also republished by John Collins.


Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2014, 12:07:57 AM »
I actually found that on a German site i had to translate, but still does not change the bulk of what i found.

But it is a warning to future generations in searching for the truth, it is going to get so much harder as more people come up with  reinterpretations of the truth  via images re written texts and omissions as well as opinions presented as facts.

It is a bit like you tube now it has been poisoned by people using computer generated graphics to produce all sorts of things so you no longer know what is true or not.

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2014, 12:07:57 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2014, 03:34:27 PM »
now we just sit back and watch how many people try to own this information on other sites as if they discovered it ;) When people say it died with him they where wrong he left it for someone who thinks like me to find that's all.

Domenic

Domenic

 That is an interesting assumption of claim. Most of what you have written and shown is well known with those who build and studied Bessler. There are still factors that the build will tell you which will not allow a running wheel. The problems is in your trade offs with greater weights for longer lengths. Now I am not saying that trade offs are not possible, just not probable.

If you study other sights forums that talk about Bessler. You will see many ideas have already been tried. Just remember it has been 300+ years since Bessler and thousands before that.

Alan

Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2014, 11:10:59 PM »
I understand the trade offs you speak of and that makes sens in a semi static system of fixed weights moving around a wheel, one against the other, but people seam to forget or overlook that lowly peg, we all know of but no one figures in to the mechanism, Bessler himself never spoke of it but he did show it in the toy diagram if you know how to read it, Count Karl did see it with his own eyes and spoke of it.

that peg and where it is placed controls and times the main motive force which causes the wheel to continue spinning, but no most people pretend it did not exist or was some unnecessary extra.

I have seen many peoples ideas on Besslers wheel but have not seen anything that times an event at the right place on the wheel to change the dynamics of the weight displacements.

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2014, 11:10:59 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2014, 02:58:19 PM »
Domenic

 A member known as Circle on this forum describes peg use and if you sign in at Bessler's Wheel and do a search for pegs you will find several more and you can also look at the albums and you will find pictures. But it is true that most don't consider pegs much on most build designs. I will be building Circle's wheel when life allows me the time from survival and my own scheduled builds.

The uses of pegs in my book are used for effects of actions and timing units. It seems you are mainly using them for Timing.  I will leave effects out of this string to keep in direction of your timing units.

Alan

Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2014, 08:52:19 PM »
Alan

The reason i say timing is because the event that causes the wheel to continue spinning takes place at between 1&3 o'clock from what i can understand
 by the clues, and i believe gravity is what allows the peg to release the weights and do  what it does , and in the process causes  the weights to release on the descending side which coincides with what observers have heard.

Domenic

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2014, 08:52:19 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2014, 03:48:28 PM »
Domenic

 Shifts between 1 & 3 o'clock positions are good positions of shift and would require reset positions to between 5 & 8 o'clock for best results. We tend to look at wheels in the stagnant positions to see what may happen. We also have to keep in mind that in a wheel at 60rpm give only 1 second for all shifts to take place and only 2 seconds for a 30rpm wheel. Not to mention CF effects which tends to keep things at the edge of a wheel. Then we consider the angular momentum and increased effects of increased weight effect of a pendulum at 6 o'clock. All factors take place and will create heat due to friction.

So for each action you only have X amount of time and on the descending side  any falling weight will tend to run out of time for the speed of the fall, thus the problem with pegs that require gravity to make them shift. So if you are using the pegs for timing? Your best bet for actions are on the ascending side of the wheel for you have the gravity and the speed of the wheel to make for a more positive and effective shift.

I do have a lot of experience of wheel effect.  http://youtu.be/Ny7O7bAn2uU

Alan

Offline dom444

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2014, 11:05:40 PM »
Very nice work Alan you have a very good workshop by the looks of it, nothing you have said i will disagree with as a matter of fact earlier in this post i
speak of the pendulum speed regulator being essential for the operation of this type of wheel, as well as to much speed tends to lock up everything with centripetal force and friction.

I have started the build for this wheel to test it i have 90% of it worked out and with this system the way my minds eye sees it and i have tested, the weights due to the mechanism will be retracting up at about 5 o'clock, the peg will engage holding the weights away from the rim all the way up the ascending side till hits between 1 & 3 then release the weight with a bit of kick
to follow the perimeter the rest of the way down, this system is based on the clues i have found.

the weights are a problem for me at the moment, have to find or machine suitable ones and they will be suspended by flat leaf springs in the center area of the wheel and provide the counter weight for the end weights, or as Bessler describes them very heavy weights.

if you watch this mechanism with its weights they have a very unusual action your so called swing machine comes close to it, and they look like little children playing in tall broken columns, as bessler describes, that's what makes me think i am on the right track it all fits.

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Re: Johann E. E. Bessler and his clues
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2014, 11:05:40 PM »
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