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Author Topic: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed  (Read 46545 times)

Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2014, 08:05:04 PM »
Not it hasn't. Please provide at least one explanation.
Regards.
Ok as you wish. This is a respectful application of logic for your benefit. Quinns general theory is that buoyancy gives you access to excess forces on an object which seems true until you factor in the definition of buoyancy. Buoyancy: an upward force exerted by a fluid that opposes the weight of an immersed object. So, how does this happen? Relative Density per unit of area! IS MERCURY A FREE ENRGY DEVICE WHEN IT FLOATS A ROCK WITHOUT A GAS CASING? no.

No matter what you do you have to equivocate the density of the object you want to move with buoyancy, which means that in most cases you would have had to create the circumstances or in the case of moving some thing in the ocean you have to do the work to vary the volume of some aspect of the object after modifying the object to allow this aspect to be varied. This might seem like a small about of energy but I assure you it is not in all cases whether creating the circumstances to equivocate the mass of the object you want to move(moving multiples of that mass) or modifying the object and exerting the force to modify its relative volumetric densities.

Any thoughts?

- David

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2014, 10:09:20 PM »
Ok as you wish. This is a respectful application of logic for your benefit. Quinns general theory is that buoyancy gives you access to excess forces on an object which seems true until you factor in the definition of buoyancy. Buoyancy: an upward force exerted by a fluid that opposes the weight of an immersed object. So, how does this happen? Relative Density per unit of area! IS MERCURY A FREE ENRGY DEVICE WHEN IT FLOATS A ROCK WITHOUT A GAS CASING? no.

No matter what you do you have to equivocate the density of the object you want to move with buoyancy, which means that in most cases you would have had to create the circumstances or in the case of moving some thing in the ocean you have to do the work to vary the volume of some aspect of the object after modifying the object to allow this aspect to be varied. This might seem like a small about of energy but I assure you it is not in all cases whether creating the circumstances to equivocate the mass of the object you want to move(moving multiples of that mass) or modifying the object and exerting the force to modify its relative volumetric densities.

Any thoughts?

- David


Hi David,
if you look at the patent, the energy for changing the density is supplied by the weight.
In other words, he is using gravity to create buyouncy, and both are free.
Regards.

Offline MarkE

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2014, 10:58:51 PM »

Hi David,
if you look at the patent, the energy for changing the density is supplied by the weight.
In other words, he is using gravity to create buyouncy, and both are free.
Regards.
No as explained before what is declared free is anything but free.  Buoyancy is the fluid equivalent of a counterweight.  In order to get one thing to go up a greater mass (can be very slightly greater as long as you have lots of time) must go down.  Manipulating the volume of a submerged object involves real work exchanged with the surrounding fluid.  Make the object larger and surrounding fluid is displaced, lifting that fluid. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2014, 10:58:51 PM »
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Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2014, 12:06:20 AM »

Hi David,
if you look at the patent, the energy for changing the density is supplied by the weight.
In other words, he is using gravity to create buyouncy, and both are free.
Regards.

Exerted force by the system is dependent directly on the compression of the air. There is an american patent for this US patent 3,934,964(1974). As well as a British patent British patent No. 1330(1857). The idea arose in 1685. In the 1700s Bernoulli spoke out against them, cannot find his conclusion. Mine is that without the further exertion of enough energy to substantially alter the volumetric contents of the interior of a container you will not receive the needed differential to produce movement. I want to believe that a weight on a short throw piston plus 9.8 m/s^2 is enough energy to change the internal contents volumetrically to the point at which it will dramatically exert a buoyant force but I can't do to how little of the internal space is actually being modified compared to the whole size of the container.

So far the only two systems that I have seen recently are from Rosch Technology and James Kwok's. Rosch claims that their system makes 12KW and eats 4.4Kw in compressor energy, not a damn patent around tho. Kwok says his makes 30% more energy than it consumes. He did not renew his initial international patent and his world patent application hasn't been granted in 8 years now.

Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2014, 12:13:30 AM »
No as explained before what is declared free is anything but free.  Buoyancy is the fluid equivalent of a counterweight.  In order to get one thing to go up a greater mass (can be very slightly greater as long as you have lots of time) must go down.  Manipulating the volume of a submerged object involves real work exchanged with the surrounding fluid.  Make the object larger and surrounding fluid is displaced, lifting that fluid.

I have nothing against this explanation except that the work is done by the gravity - by the weight, which is always pushing down. He utilizes this in his patent to increase the dispacement on one branch and decrease it on another branch.
Gravity of the weight is doing the real work. Or I may be too stupid to understand the reasoning...
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #79 on: December 10, 2014, 12:13:30 AM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #80 on: December 10, 2014, 12:17:37 AM »
Exerted force by the system is dependent directly on the compression of the air. There is an american patent for this US patent 3,934,964(1974). As well as a British patent British patent No. 1330(1857). The idea arose in 1685. In the 1700s Bernoulli spoke out against them, cannot find his conclusion. Mine is that without the further exertion of enough energy to substantially alter the volumetric contents of the interior of a container you will not receive the needed differential to produce movement. I want to believe that a weight on a short throw piston plus 9.8 m/s^2 is enough energy to change the internal contents volumetrically to the point at which it will dramatically exert a buoyant force but I can't do to how little of the internal space is actually being modified compared to the whole size of the container.

So far the only two systems that I have seen recently are from Rosch Technology and James Kwok's. Rosch claims that their system makes 12KW and eats 4.4Kw in compressor energy, not a damn patent around tho. Kwok says his makes 30% more energy than it consumes. He did not renew his initial international patent and his world patent application hasn't been granted in 8 years now.

Hi David,
there is absolutely no compression of air in this patent - it works strictly on the dispacement. The Rosch is not going to work -air compressor is very inefficient.
Regards.

Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2014, 12:31:58 AM »
Dude, the piston is sealed with an O ring. The weight connected to the arm that pushes the piston down when the tank is properly oriented is most definitely compressing the air. That is what changes the volume of the air. If i am scuba diving, and i have my weight belt on, and I deflate my lungs i can sink because the compressed air in the tank on my back has a low volumetric profile. When I inflate my lungs I rise, because i have taken some of that air and decreased its compression by taking it from the tank with a valve and allowing it to expand into my lungs.

- David

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #81 on: December 10, 2014, 12:31:58 AM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #82 on: December 10, 2014, 12:36:18 AM »
Dude, the piston is sealed with an O ring. The weight connected to the arm that pushes the piston down when the tank is properly oriented is most definitely compressing the air. That is what changes the volume of the air. If i am scuba diving, and i have my weight belt on, and I deflate my lungs i can sink because the compressed air in the tank on my back has a low volumetric profile. When I inflate my lungs I rise, because i have taken some of that air and decreased its compression by taking it from the tank with a valve and allowing it to expand into my lungs.

- David
Most likely the chamber of the piston moving inward is connected to the chamber of the piston moving outward
in another branch, so there is no air compression involved - it simply moves back and forth not creating resistance.
As I said, this device works strictly on displacement.
Regards.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #83 on: December 10, 2014, 01:07:24 AM »
And as I said, the device in the French patent is just a variant of one that is fully analyzed on Simanek's page. How the patent ever was granted is just an illustration of the flaws in the French patent system, which are not unique to France.

Look at the diagram below.

The piston weights are pushing air from one side to the other, working by weight, moving displacement from one side to the other just as you said. Put the weights on lever arms... no difference, just more sources of drag.

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm

And of course it will not work.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #83 on: December 10, 2014, 01:07:24 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2014, 01:11:57 AM »
@David: You should check out Wayne Travis's devices and claims. They put Kwok's claims and device to shame, and Travis actually has received a US patent recently.

http://mrwaynesbrain.com/

Try not to laugh too hard.... If you look on YT you can find a couple of video "demonstrations" of a couple of Travis's devices.

Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2014, 01:49:21 AM »
Most likely the chamber of the piston moving inward is connected to the chamber of the piston moving outward
in another branch, so there is no air compression involved - it simply moves back and forth not creating resistance.
As I said, this device works strictly on displacement.
Regards.

That is a fantasy if we are still talking about the french patent but fine, sounds like a lot of mechanical resistance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2014, 01:49:21 AM »
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Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2014, 02:09:01 AM »
@David: You should check out Wayne Travis's devices and claims. They put Kwok's claims and device to shame, and Travis actually has received a US patent recently.

http://mrwaynesbrain.com/

Try not to laugh too hard.... If you look on YT you can find a couple of video "demonstrations" of a couple of Travis's devices.

You have made my day Mr. Koala.

Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2014, 02:14:23 AM »
And as I said, the device in the French patent is just a variant of one that is fully analyzed on Simanek's page. How the patent ever was granted is just an illustration of the flaws in the French patent system, which are not unique to France.

Look at the diagram below.

The piston weights are pushing air from one side to the other, working by weight, moving displacement from one side to the other just as you said. Put the weights on lever arms... no difference, just more sources of drag.

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm

And of course it will not work.

In the patent weight is moving the piston outward/inward, not the air.Air volume between two chambers doesn't change,
it just flows between them just to maintain a free movement of the pistons.Semanek's machine is not described
completely, it misses important function of the weights.
Regards

Offline telecom

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2014, 02:17:21 AM »
That is a fantasy if we are still talking about the french patent but fine, sounds like a lot of mechanical resistance.

What kind of resistance you are talking about - hydraulic, pistons within the cylinders, or something else?
In any case, the weight can be chosen large enough to overcome it, IMHO.
Regards

Offline dvy1214

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Re: 3rd working machine you gandmother could make _2nd Law crushed
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2014, 02:19:21 AM »
As the weight increases as does the necessary strength of the mechanism.

 

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