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Author Topic: wheel-idea  (Read 12160 times)

Offline Dellemann

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wheel-idea
« on: September 15, 2006, 10:30:55 PM »
hello,

in the gif-animation the red points are (for example) 1000 kg weights. (round or cylinder-form).
Why does't work ?
I think the friction is not the biggest problem. (or yes ?)
(Sorry for this stupid question)

thanks,
Mani

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wheel-idea
« on: September 15, 2006, 10:30:55 PM »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 01:29:54 AM »
NICE IDEA

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 04:47:15 AM »
build it and then see if it works. if it works post video here.

thnx :)

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 04:47:15 AM »
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Offline aarnold

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 05:27:41 AM »
Great design... but I'm afraid it won't work.
I think the wheel will have the same weight in both sides... and will need more force to turn.
Just my oppinion.. maybe you need to build and test.... this is the best way to assure your concept...
best regards
Augusto Arnold

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 10:28:13 AM »
Nice animation,
the question is,
if the one ball at the right side is able to lift both balls
at the left side ?

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 10:28:13 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 10:46:43 AM »
the trick here is the shifting of the balls within the wheel making the wheel imbalanced. still you would have to built it and see.

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 01:56:09 PM »
I think it has potential. The right side can be extended as much as needed to get the leverage to lift the three other balls. Also the ball is rolling downhill most of the time until it again gets close to the axle (fulcrum) point. Very clever!

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 01:56:09 PM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 06:50:30 PM »
Hello,

Good looking design, it is a variation of the original. I guess it won't work, but it can be tested in WM2d.
I see one problem with this, and every similar deflector track type design (in this way).

The force caused by the weight in the gravity field act on two bodies. One is the spoke of the wheel, and the other is the deflector movement track. So, the force produced by the weights divided into to parts, act on the wheel, and on the track at the same time. Therefore this wheel always use the force of the weights partly on a useless way.

I checked the animation step by step, and I think it has equilibrium points, and won't work, but of course it's hard to tell for sure by sight only, especially in this way the weel operates.
Before anybody decided to build, I recommend to do a simulation first.

Principle: It's always easier to thrust a car up on a slope, than to lift it up (when it is hanging in the air).

Online lancaIV

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 09:33:03 PM »
A published invention from a ,now dead, german inventor:
DE3621312,Gravitator: a water-wheel/pump-concept
Can somebody simulate the process ?

Sincerely
            Lanca

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 09:33:03 PM »
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Offline Dellemann

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 12:42:46 PM »
hello to all,

thanks for your repley.
I make some drawings with 16 weights (red) and the weights are never in balance.
On the right side (down side)  the sum of the distance to the middle is approxemately 1,6 x higher then the left side sum disdance.
(I don't know the word in Englisch "Schwerpunkt)

So the problem is how Greg&Gregor said ""a car on ramp or free hanging is different""
OR the friction is the problem. I had download the sim-program WM but it dosen't work on my computer.

Lanca: thanks for the info about the patent but the pump need also energy !!!

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 01:01:15 PM »
please post picture(s) here

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 01:01:15 PM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 01:33:48 PM »
Hi Dellemann!

I'm not the best in simulation, but If you post a picture or sketch, I can try to simulate a similar wheel for you.

Offline prajna

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 01:54:13 PM »
Here is a wm2d model which shows what Greg was trying to explain earlier.  The red arrows show the forces on the balls (the balls exert a force in the opposite direction).  You can see that the balls on the right exert most of their force on the cam track and not on the spokes of the wheel.  Those on the left do the opposite.  Although the balls are all the same weight not all of that weight acts against the spokes.

If you were to measure the distances between opposite balls and the axis and then calculate the moments you will find that they are mostly in balance.  There is a point, when balls are at the right hand corner, that their force is not counter-acted by the track and at this point they do exert great leverage but against that you will find that there are, at that point, more balls exerting great downforce on the left (though at a shorter radius).  If there was some way to increase the nymber of balls on the right then it would work but then there would be no space for them when they get to the left.  Same old, same old problem.

In sum, the forces balance out.

Offline Dellemann

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 02:42:22 PM »
prajna, thanks for your sim !
than the problem is the ramp ?
Where is the "resultat direction" ?

here the pic (the lines red and green are the sum of the distance to the axis.)

Mani

Offline prajna

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Re: wheel-idea
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 02:56:41 PM »
These red arrows show the total force.  I think the resultant direction is at right angles to these arrows.  Where the arrows are short the force will be greater and where they are long it will be less (i.e. you need to invert the values.)  I hope this helps.

 

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