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Conventional alternative energy systems => All other conventional alternative energy creation systems => Topic started by: tinman on November 15, 2014, 07:18:57 AM

Title: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on November 15, 2014, 07:18:57 AM
Russ from RWG reserch will be hosting the PMBO this year by him self,as i just dont have the time to put into it this year.

But i am going to do a build,and would like you guys to join in and have a go. Lets see who has got building skills to go along with the knowledge.
TK,FarmHand,poynt99-every one,lets see what ya got :D

Here is the start of my build.
The Megga-G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT7DrGEWyWc
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 15, 2014, 10:08:46 AM
UUM
Has Tinsel ever joined your contest ?


I will thro some dough his way [small budget]...
or donate to some " Koala sore paw  foundation"


If he will run?


is there a prize??
thx
Chet
Ps
Are Bedeni Type motors allowed ,or P.Lindemann /Aarons work ? If so I will invite  ?
and also Rob Mason's [Evolvingape] Pulseometer  fluid pulsed mechanic power system  ??



PPS
gentleman's rules ?
No Smash talk??
or no holds Barred ??
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on November 15, 2014, 12:22:38 PM
All details here on the vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uyDQx3v1D4
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 15, 2014, 05:06:28 PM
This popped into my head on another thread so I am sharing it here.

An idea for anybody in the pulse motor build-off.  Coils are always energized with DC, typically from a 12-volt battery.  With a microcontroller you could drive the coil with a custom waveform.  Perhaps driving the coil with an initial  voltage over-shoot spike will give you faster repulsion force in place to meet the spinning rotor magnet, giving you higher RPMs.  The voltage spike gets the current flowing in the coil more quickly.  You can imagine a simple program where the microcontroler is triggered and then it just reads out a look-up table in memory to playback the waveform on an analog output pin.  Then you connect the analog output to a beefy voltage servo-amplifier to drive the coil.  You could do one from scratch using an op-amp connected to a big pair of transistors.  The app note for that circuit is floating around.  Or perhaps you could cheat and use a car audio amplifier.

So instead of powering the coil from a straight 12-volt battery, you are powering it from a high-current voltage servo-amplifier connected to a +/-36 volt power supply (as an example).  You can jolt the coil with a custom waveform and see how high you can push the RPM while monitoring the power consumption.  You could literally start to cook your coil if you were not careful.

You have the microcontroller reading ticks from the rotor so that the software could measure the rotor frequency.  It could then multiply the rotor frequency by 'x' to generate the clock for the outputting of the waveform.  That way the length of the customizable pulse would track and be in step with the rotor RPM.  Do you need to do some kind of averaging when you measure the RPM?

The "clock" is implemented using one of the on-board programmable timers in the micrcontroller.  When the timer counts down to zero, it triggers a software interrupt.  The software interrupt outputs the next step in the waveform, does some conditional testing, and then exits.  So the outputting of the actual waveform is done by interrupt-based code in the "background."

So there you have it:  A background interrupt-driven programmable timer function that outputs the waveform in memory (triggered by a pick-up coil on the motor) and in the foreground code you measure the rotor frequency and then multiply it by a variable 'x' to generate the output waveform clock.  If your Arduino board has an LCD display you could display the RPM also.

Once you have that running, then you can experiment with the voltage waveform that you energize the coil with.  You need a flexible trigger where you can change the angle of the trigger like on the MHOP.  The trigger determines the start of the outputting of the waveform.  Say your waveform is 64 steps in length and you have one byte for each step (0-255).   A value of 0 gives you zero volts output from the servo-amplifier.  A value of 255 gives you say 36 volts output from the servo-amplifier.   With that setup you could really push your coil, get it to smoke if you wanted to.  You may want to make the record length for the waveform table to be 128 or 256 bytes in length.  Of course you could change the  length to whatever you want.

In theory you could find a waveform for pulsing the coil that is an ideal match for the motor and gives you your maximum efficiency.  But please define your efficiency also and then measure the variables and show the calculations.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 15, 2014, 05:27:47 PM
How about just using _one_ very Longgggggggggg pulse of HV DC to drive the motor? Would that count? (just kidding, sort of.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfw-TeJ9r4  (presented mostly to show the Arduino tachometer, which also can provide the programmed timing pulses that MH is talking about)

Or an antigravity electrostatic linear or rotary PM?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX-jrlGC-aA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aP7sk48jw


Seriously, folks, I am all out of ideas for this year's buildoff. I may be able to come up with something, but I see that LidMotor is the King of PMs and has already anticipated the design I was thinking of with his great little rotary PerPenduPetulum motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kij6dtkhhbE

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 15, 2014, 05:47:20 PM
Chet, I appreciate your kind offer, but seriously, I have already built just about every kind of pulse motor that I have been able to think about. I do have one more that I've been working on "in the background" but it's not really anything new or especially elegant. I also have some interesting designs that I can't build, because I still don't have my machine tooling available, it's all up in Canada and probably lost by now.  The level of creativity and skill that I saw from last year's build-off was so impressive that I am humbled and in awe of the real builders out there. I'm just a dilettante with a couple of oscilloscopes and an Arduino or two, not a PM-Pro! But my brain is working on the problem and maybe I'll be able to have some kind of original idea in time to enter the competition. Right now I think my chances are kind of slim.
 :-[
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 15, 2014, 06:44:05 PM
Well I can't resist mentioning the disk rotor with the "C" core form for the drive coil to catch both sides of the disk magnet.  And then, under microcontroller control, you start out in attraction mode, and then when the magnet passes TDC you switch to repulsion mode, and you have tweaked the voltage waveform to optimize the attraction and the repulsion phase of the rotor magnet fly-by.  We have the technology.

And you want more thinking outside of the box?  You do similar setup, but instead of a servo voltage amplifier on the output to drive the drive coils, you have a servo current amplifier.  So your waveform table in your Arduino memory is for the current through the coil, and not the voltage across the coil.  Let the current amplifier generate the voltage spikes all by itself.   Now that would be just uber awesome.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 15, 2014, 08:26:49 PM
Good stuff fellows..! :)



Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 15, 2014, 11:21:26 PM
@MH: now that's a good idea, to have a combined attraction-repulsion drive cycle. With say 4 C-coils and 4 rotor magnets you could get to a point where the coils are essentially AC driven, more or less "on" all the time in one polarity or the other, and this would really torque the rotor around powerfully! It's not too hard to do using something like Arduino. There are several "shields" that just snap onto the main board and incorporate full H-bridge driver chips. For example:

http://www.robotshop.com/en/arduino-compatible-mega-motor-shield-1a-5-28v.html
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on November 16, 2014, 02:03:09 AM
You would want to start the reverse pulse right after the inductive kickback cycle over shoots the 0 volt line. This then means that the polarity of the inductor has already started to change in our favour-in the right direction ;) I dont think you need all that stuff like the Arduino and programing,as i think a push/pull circuit triggered by opto interuptors would do just nicely.

You also know that it dosnt have to be an electric pulse motor?. It can be gas pulses,fluid pulses,or even bouncing mass pulses-->Aaron's overunity bouncing ball maybe :o
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 16, 2014, 02:17:58 AM
You would want to start the reverse pulse right after the inductive kickback cycle over shoots the 0 volt line. This then means that the polarity of the inductor has already started to change in our favour-in the right direction ;) I dont think you need all that stuff like the Arduino and programing,as i think a push/pull circuit triggered by opto interuptors would do just nicely.
I agree fully, but using the Arduino (or another full MC system like Stamp or etc) can be really cool too, since you can have it connected to your computer over the USB-serial line and change parameters "live" while running. I like Arduino because of the easy-to-use programming environment ( the "Arduino IDE") and it gives me an excuse to use the "c" language that I learned in school many years ago. It can also provide realtime monitoring of various parameters as I showed in the video above. The Arduino-monitored SNOT even computes the actual kinetic energy of the ball as it travels around the track!
Quote
You also know that it dosnt have to be an electric pulse motor?. It can be gas pulses,fluid pulses,or even bouncing mass pulses-->Aaron's overunity bouncing ball maybe :o
Sure, it's nice to be reminded of that! And that's what I mean when I say I can't currently build some of my designs. I have one that is a little Ringbom-style linear Stirling engine driving a linear alternator, a complete heat-to-electricity "pulse motor" power plant that would probably run on the waste heat coming off a mosfet used to drive a bigger conventional PM! But I can't build it without a precision lathe and milling machine.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: qtrhack on November 16, 2014, 05:19:32 AM
... But I can't build it without a precision lathe and milling machine.

got one of these around you:  http://techshop.ws/

not sure of you location but could be an option ...
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 16, 2014, 01:29:11 PM
got one of these around you:  http://techshop.ws/ (http://techshop.ws/)

not sure of you location but could be an option ...

Sure, there is one about 120 miles north of me. Unfortunately they want 150 dollars per month for a membership (or 1395 a year, or 175 for one month).  And it would cost me around 35 dollars in gasoline and over 4 hours driving to make the trip on any given day. If I could afford that kind of outlay, time and effort I'd probably be able to retrieve my own tooling from Canada and work in the comfort (hah!) of home, and not need to drive. "Pray for me, I drive I-35" is more than just a bumper sticker.
Thanks for the suggestion though. I'm sure that they will be making money and having fun up there.

I see the location nearest me is also advertising a job opening for a multitalented person who can do all sorts of things and who has experience.  Wages 11 to 14 dollars an hour, d.o.e.! But the skill set they say they want is worth 40 dollars an hour at least.

But they do provide popcorn and coffee!

However they don't seem to be doing a heck of a lot of business. I glanced briefly at the reservation schedule and it looks like neither of the metal lathes are reserved, at all, for the next week at least.

I'm not knocking the place. It seems like a good idea, a good service. For people with the money to spend, that is.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 16, 2014, 03:30:22 PM
Perhaps a different perspective ?
call "the man" the runs the lathe [the 12 dollars an hour guy]


and ask him how much to Turn your 15 minute piece ?


PM me the place And I will call them .


I know you still use strings and cans..... ???


Besides we might even get you a sponsorship of similar arrangement for the whole group here
and elsewhere .


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 16, 2014, 05:39:13 PM
That's not the way that place works. There is nowhere in the world I know about where you can "rent" a machinist's time and the machine for "12 dollars an hour". If you bother to read that website you will see that one must reserve the machine in four-hour blocks, that you must take their safety course before you are allowed near a machine (of course, they'd be nuts not to require that) and you do the work yourself.   And where did you get the idea that someone could make the parts I need to make in 15 minutes? Have you ever set up a lathe to do precision work? Have you ever machined, say, a piston, cylinder, wrist-pin and con-rod set to 0.0001" tolerances.... in 15 minutes?  That, I'd like to see. They also don't say what the size of the "Jet" brand lathe is. The largest parts I need to make are about the size of a man's thumb, and working down from there. Could I make a watch gear, say, on a 7" swing lathe? Could you?

Come on, Chet, get realistic here. Like I said, I appreciate the offer but it's just not feasible. If you really REALLY want to help me, making some arrangement to get my own tooling crated up and sent down to me from Canada would really be helpful. Other people have from time to time offered to help with this but the arrangement has always fallen through somehow. I think I might even have dodged a rip-off at one point.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: qtrhack on November 16, 2014, 05:41:51 PM
I see the location nearest me is also advertising a job opening for a multitalented person who can do all sorts of things and who has experience.  Wages 11 to 14 dollars an hour, d.o.e.! But the skill set they say they want is worth 40 dollars an hour at least.

well the drive to and from would really honk ... but consider this if it makes sense:  i believe you would get your membership for free if you worked there.  you would really be an asset to teaching i am sure of that.  so you could teach a little and get paid (granted not a heck of a lot) and do research with some of the most expensive equipment around at a bargain.  just my two cents - love your work and would love to see you have the tools you need to carry on and educate us more!!

love your videos!!  you are one of the reasons i got interested going down this path ... still don't understand half of what your saying most of the time but it will come ;)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 16, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
well the drive to and from would really honk ... but consider this if it makes sense:  i believe you would get your membership for free if you worked there.  you would really be an asset to teaching i am sure of that.  so you could teach a little and get paid (granted not a heck of a lot) and do research with some of the most expensive equipment around at a bargain.  just my two cents - love your work and would love to see you have the tools you need to carry on and educate us more!!

love your videos!!  you are one of the reasons i got interested going down this path ... still don't understand half of what your saying most of the time but it will come ;)
Well, thank you for that kind word. If I lived within a 10 minute drive from the place I would actually consider applying for the position, and I believe that I am indeed fully qualified according to what they listed in the "job description" (if a bit "over the hill" in terms of age). But I don't. I live, as I said, about 120 miles away and the road between me and there is both truly frightening to drive on and goes through a major city with huge traffic jams with no alternate route that is reasonable. For example, it takes only slightly over an hour and 15 minutes to get from my location to the edge of the city in question... then it can take another -full hour- of stop-and-go traffic on the "freeway" to get through that city and make it the extra 30 miles or so to the location of the shop. Making the drive on a daily basis is simply out of the question for me, and that kind of relocation on a permanent basis is impossible at this point in my life.

I am happy that you watch and enjoy my videos, and I am happy to explain further anything that you don't understand about them. I always respond to comments on the videos, so just ask your question in the comments to any particular video and I'll do my best to explain anything you don't understand.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 16, 2014, 07:16:17 PM
Tinsel
there was A show on the TV about a similar facility taking root across the country .
In this particular show they were referring to a fellow that would freelance for the group
as an operator ?[charge small fees]


However...
Lets get your stuff back !!
If I do indeed go North to the GDS test ,I will make every effort to Get Your stuff back this way.


I would actually consider Just  "doing it"  if I found a time window...


You do a lot here ....


thx
Chet
PS
Contact me with weights and such ...







Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 16, 2014, 07:47:37 PM
Tinsel
there was A show on the TV about a similar facility taking root across the country .
In this particular show they were referring to a fellow that would freelance for the group
as an operator ?[charge small fees]


However...
Lets get your stuff back !!
If I do indeed go North to the GDS test ,I will make every effort to Get Your stuff back this way.


I would actually consider Just  "doing it"  if I found a time window...


You do a lot here ....


thx
Chet
PS
Contact me with weights and such ...
Yes, if you do wind up going to Toronto for the GDS testing, if you could spend a day or two packing and arranging shipping somehow that would solve a big problem for me. If you can let me know when your travel plans are finalized I can get permission from the owners of the lab for you to visit and they can point out my stuff to you and probably help with packing and such. They aren't interested in helping beyond that, I think. (They do tend to take some days off during the winter holidays though, which might be a problem if your visit is really going to be in mid or late December.) The lab is located within a stone's throw of the Pearson Int'l Airport.
I don't know how much it will cost, though, and as you know I am out of funds totally. However there are three Curta calculators in the stuff and I am willing to part with two of them (an early Type 1 and a later Type II)  and they together are worth over two thousand dollars. I'd like to keep the one Type II that I had fully repaired and refurbished by Jack Christianson at TimeWise, but I could even be persuaded to part with that one if absolutely necessary. It is a rare early black Type II and should be worth 1500 dollars just by itself. But I sure would like to keep it if possible.
The stuff consists of a complete Sherline "miniature machine shop" lathe and milling machine with digital readouts and most every other addon in the Sherline catalog, a fullsize 3-layer Kennedy rollaround toolbox stuffed with tooling and calipers and dial indicators etc. for the shop, some test equipment like power supplies, an oscilloscope or two, some meters and other stuff like that, and including several of my constructions like all the VanDeGraaff machines, the Dirod, and so on. I can't remember if the Nord Lead digital analog synthesizer is still there or not; there may be a few items that my old landlord still has in storage, a few blocks away from the lab. When I left Canada the last time I was seriously ill and could not make any arrangements, I actually thought I was dying and could barely handle getting myself out. Unfortunately I didn't die   ;) , so the mess is still there, and I can't clean it up myself, I need outside help. It's a pretty big job and I have no way of compensating or paying for it other than by selling or offering the Curtas.  I'd guess it would be about two standard forklift pallets full of stuff in boxes, and I think that the lab would donate the pallets and help to box the stuff up and secure it. I have no idea about Customs duties; most of the stuff is actually made in the USA like the Sherline stuff and the Kennedy boxes but a lot of the tooling is from all over the place. It's a complicated problem.
Thanks for even considering it; if it doesn't work out or you decide it's too much trouble or expense I fully understand.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 16, 2014, 08:52:15 PM
Tinsel
One way or the other, we'll make it happen!


You can take that to the bank.....[the promise]


Chet
PS
Just to be clear ..
The offer would be for actual out of pocket expense ,door to door !
Also anyone that can offer help [Fuel Lodging Etc]
contact me at
ChetKremens@gmail.com


and Tinsel
I have all experience from Customs to whatever...?
there are no strings attached ,EVER...
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: The Boss on November 16, 2014, 10:59:56 PM
Tinsel
One way or the other, we'll make it happen!


You can take that to the bank.....[the promise]


Chet
PS
Just to be clear ..
The offer would be for actual out of pocket expense ,door to door !
Also anyone that can offer help [Fuel Lodging Etc]
contact me at
ChetKremens@gmail.com


and Tinsel
I have all experience from Customs to whatever...?
there are no strings attached ,EVER...


Chet,

There are hundreds of people that have benefitted from TinselKoala's unselfish generosity.
Its time for builders, posters and lurkers alike to step up and do the right thing.

Contact me privately here, with a name and address to mail you a money order.

Count me in for $100.

Is there anyone else reading here that would care to contribute to this project ?
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 16, 2014, 11:12:25 PM
Boss
Thats what it takes....


Nothing but grattitude here,and a promise...


I will not take one cent more than the cost of the "project" actual costs, no fee from me.
we'll figure it out.
Thx
ChetKremens@Gmail.com
PS
Nor will I except a cent until all details have  been worked out with TinselKoala and involved parties.


I will except good faith  pledges  ,this is not in any way a vacation ,It will be a non stop Run from start to finish [sleeping in the vehicle if need be]


probably a 4000 mile run.....



Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 18, 2014, 08:40:40 PM
Hi :Boss: long time no hear, I thought it might be you. I hope things are going well for you at last. Thanks for the nice comment, but there are probably just as many people or more, who might donate to a fund to _prevent_ me from retrieving my gear and being more active! Certainly I get more insults and disrespect here than the "average bear" gets.   ;)

Chet, you are talking about driving with a trailer into the Toronto area in the coldest winter we've had in a while? Sleeping in your car? You could easily get buried in the snow, frozen to death on the highway. And who knows what will happen at the Customs entry point. I'd feel much better if the stuff could just be shipped directly from Toronto by a Customs broker/shipping company like Kuhn&Nagel. This might cost a bit more, but it will avoid you having to deal with all that snow and the terrible traffic along the Canadian 401 "freeway" which is the most ridiculous, traffic-congested road I have ever been on. Ten lanes, count'em, ten, in either direction (out near Pearson Airport anyhow) and even in good weather often bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go. They even have tow-trucks pre-positioned in clusters along that highway so that wrecks and stalls can be cleared quickly enough so that people don't freeze to death in their cars. But I just don't know what to expect, maybe the trailer idea is better after all, if the weather is good.
Fortunately there is a Motel 6 (my choice for travel accommodations) with reasonable rates a few miles west of the location at the intersection of Winston Churchill street and the 401. This is on the west side of Toronto, though, and the GDS location in Oshawa is beyond the east side of Toronto, at least an hour, probably more like 90 minutes, of drive time away.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 18, 2014, 09:12:28 PM
Tinsel
We start at the bottom and work our way out  , from worst case to "best case" scenario..
 8)

The plan will Coalesce ....


"The Boss" is  honing one aspect ,a few more to sort out...


Don't sweat the details yet,The plan is still coming together!!


Chet
PS
and as I have stated,  anyone interested in assisting,
 contact me at
ChetKremens@gmail.com
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 19, 2014, 06:47:44 AM
There is a much simpler dual-direction drive pulse motor.  It would be a variation on the MHOP.  The pick-up coil waveform has all of the information you need to make a dual-drive pulse motor.  There is a positive hump, then at TDC it transitions through zero volts (or your reference threshold for a single-supply design), and then there is the negative hump.  So you use one op-amp comparator to detect the positive hump and a second op-amp comparator to detect the negative hump.  Then you use the two op-amp outputs to control the H-bridge.  You can recover the spike energy, etc.

If you wanted to go really crazy you could add a "power-boost" to the H-Bridge.  When the comparators flip you trigger 555 monostables.  The monostable outputs go high when you first energize the coil for both the attraction pulse and for the repulsion pulse.  These signals control separate MOSFETs that gate separate higher voltage supplies.  The brief pulses of higher voltage kick current into the drive coil faster so that the "push" kicks in faster.  The current from the main supply voltage is shut off during the kicks using diodes, a.k.a. "diode logic."
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 19, 2014, 07:03:45 AM
TK:

Quote
This might cost a bit more, but it will avoid you having to deal with all that snow and the terrible traffic along the Canadian 401 "freeway" which is the most ridiculous, traffic-congested road I have ever been on. Ten lanes, count'em, ten, in either direction (out near Pearson Airport anyhow) and even in good weather often bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go. They even have tow-trucks pre-positioned in clusters along that highway so that wrecks and stalls can be cleared quickly enough so that people don't freeze to death in their cars.

lol That's pretty funny.  I think the 401 in Toronto is the busiest and greatest superhighway in the world!  It's more like 12 to 14 lanes.  It just shows you the economic prowess of Toronto that it's reaching it's capacity(?).  (I haven't really checked this information.)  If you are a native Texan I supposed I shouldn't be surprised about the "Canadian Igloo" talk but it's not Siberia!  Actually since the mid 1980s some winters can be quite tolerable.

You gotta still give the planners in the 1960s that designed the 401 a lot of credit.  When it's not at full capacity it's a fast and safe road.

Some digging:

http://www.inautonews.com/list-of-world-record-highways#.VGwyTMmK1qs (http://www.inautonews.com/list-of-world-record-highways#.VGwyTMmK1qs)

Quote
Busiest highway
 
Highway 401 – the Macdonald–Cartier Freeway has volumes surpassing an average of 500,000 vehicles per day in some sections of Toronto as of 2006, giving Highway 401 the distinction of being North America’s busiest highway.
 This surpasses the Santa Monica Freeway in Los Angeles, and several Interstate freeways in Houston, Texas.
  King’s Highway 401 is the primary through route across Southern, Central and Eastern Ontario. Since the highway’s completion in the late 1960s, Highway 401 has evolved from being a convenient bypass to a vital economic corridor.
 Today the stretch of Highway 401 that passes through the Greater Toronto Area ranges from 6 to 18 lanes, and the stretch between Highway 403 and Brock Road in Pickering is thought to be the world’s longest continuous stretch of highway having 10 or more lanes.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2014, 08:06:49 AM
Well
Having spent My entire life in NYC area dealing with a population the size of all Canada
in just these few north eastern states,I can assure you I can redefine "traffic" and "crazy drivers".
I have easily driven over one million miles on these whacky roads..


that being said,  between myself and Toronto they are expecting a 5 foot snowfall "Today?"


Five feet in One storm ,   Buffalo NY.....
Yeeesh I don't know how those folks can live with that Lake effect storm system??


thankfully I am far enuff east to miss its vast reach,although the Subaru AWD does Laugh in its face
and having driven most of my life with only rear wheel drive ,the AWD "RUU" feels like a tank in the snow.[rigging a plow for it this year]


@TinMan
@DogOne
do you want me to extend a formal invitation to Bedini ,Lindemann and Aaron for a "representative Entry"into the contest.
A gentleman's invitation ?


I did ask one fellow at a thread there for some info on their "self running Motors" [he is investigating]
and I absolutely do NOT want to get into any Claims discussions here.
I just want to "formally"Invite them... with a yes or no RSVP?
is that OK?
lets keep it very friendly .


I will clear it with Russ too.


thx
Chet












Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on November 19, 2014, 02:35:20 PM
Go for it Chet-that'd be a hoot lol
Im 1200km from home at the moment, been on the road fot 3 day straight now. Should be home tomorrow.
Talk on the weekend
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 19, 2014, 02:51:47 PM
Brad
Will do
I figured you were "on the road again"...


Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 19, 2014, 11:16:35 PM
Hi All,
 
I'm doing the pulse motor build off this year, get ready for my radial pulse motor/generator.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA4RelrMHwc

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 20, 2014, 01:47:47 PM
Hi All,

 My theory of the radial pulse piston engine:

Like all piston engines we know of TDC,BDC and power stroke.

This design of my pulse engine use all three of these basic workings in a piston engine, instead of using fuel I plan to pulse the center stroke of the piston to create a push/pull effect with a piston that has a magnet in the center.

As the piston moves downward to BDC a pickup coil generates output due to the permanent magnet that is part of the piston, the created a moving magnetic field that will create power output.
Due to counter emf, the load on the piston will be fall less because of the leverage of the crank shaft. This will also have the same effect on TDC also.

Each time the drive coil is turn on due to a PWM/mosfet drive circuit a BEMF will happen as the power it turn off. This can be collected for extra power added to the  generated coils from TDC/BDC power stokes.

This is the basic design using just one piston:

Tom :o
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 22, 2014, 01:10:08 AM
Hi All,

Ok, just about finished on this pulse motor build off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyokf2F63kI

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 22, 2014, 02:42:37 AM
Too bad this guy is not entering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa09EVJ_fI&list=UUTV38oYraLvibm9Xnq55-_A
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 22, 2014, 03:28:41 AM
Tom
I love that radial design ,I worked on radial aircraft engines as a young man [mechanics school] ,so very simple !!
a design I have always loved !! [they made Scary HP too ..]


a radial motor with Lineal magnetic drive,
How cool is that  8) 
and you can stack them just like in aircraft!!


@MH
Get a contact and I'll invite him [I could not find any info??]
[ @MH on another note, I'll be updating Monday AM On GDS]


thx
Chet


Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2014, 03:30:45 AM
Too bad this guy is not entering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa09EVJ_fI&list=UUTV38oYraLvibm9Xnq55-_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa09EVJ_fI&list=UUTV38oYraLvibm9Xnq55-_A)

Yah, too bad indeed. Some nice craftsmanship there. You certainly wouldn't want to get your fingers caught up in that one!

But that's Overunity 17. Why not skip ahead to Overunity 25, where he shows some measurements.  And some really interesting ways of making them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72JTefJ6d8
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 22, 2014, 03:37:36 AM
Hi All,

Ok, just about finished on this pulse motor build off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyokf2F63kI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyokf2F63kI)

Tom

Beautiful work, Tommy!

Like Chet, I also used to work on big aircraft radial engines. They are amazing, especially the master-rod system, same as you have shown. Even more amazing are the valve-actuating cams on the big ICE radials: they are huge rings, with cam lobes along the outside and gear teeth all around the inside.  It's a good thing you don't need those in your setup!
Can you imagine the crankshaft-master rod system of 28-cylinder engine, 4 layers of 7 pistons each?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biggest_rotary_cutaway.jpg
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 22, 2014, 04:13:49 AM
TK:

I love those real-life cutaways.  I but you they don't make them that much anymore and some of them must be collector's items.  Cutaway drawings are great too.  They always appealed to nerd in me, from being a kid right up to the present.  Cutaway drawings of things like submarines and ocean liners were pure brain candy for an inquisitive mind.

Chet:

Looking forward to the update.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 22, 2014, 05:06:05 AM
@TommyLeeReed,                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Take a look at Art Porter's "Magnetic Neutralization" project. An axial disk magnet for piston, sandwiched between two opposing disks on top and bottom with two neutralization coils would add power and efficiency! This approach eliminates "Lenz Drag" because the BEMF output is augmented  by a Dragone effect.
 
http://www.gap-power.com/index.html (http://www.gap-power.com/index.html)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on November 22, 2014, 10:32:27 AM
Hi All,

Ok, just about finished on this pulse motor build off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyokf2F63kI

Tom
Looking good so far Tom.
Cant wait to see it run.
I have gone to plan B,as plan A got shot to hell once i found out what the stator core looked like under all that plastic :'(
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 22, 2014, 12:35:53 PM
Thanks all,

 TinMan, just pick a idea of a type of build and work around that.

You will do great....

I like the idea of building everything to this PMBO, I think it would speak louder then finding a motor and doing tricks with it.

Tom 8)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 24, 2014, 12:35:40 AM
Hi All,

 Ok finished on the pistons and piston rods, waiting for the magnets to finish up.

Next would be the electronics and coils to run the radial engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3tVMVCvxQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3tVMVCvxQ)

Tom.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2014, 02:36:11 AM
What is the deadline to enter the contest?

Mags
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 24, 2014, 02:41:40 AM
HI Mag,

 It's Dec 14th....

Still time to enter...

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2014, 03:26:13 AM
Hey Tommy

Thanks.  Have an idea. Hope I have time to build it.

Mags
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 24, 2014, 03:47:18 AM
Hi Mag,

 Great, I think this pulse motor build off is fun.

I hope you win...

 I'm keeping my cost down, even if I had to order some parts.

Tom


Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 25, 2014, 03:52:20 AM
Hi All,

Got my magnets in today, moving very fast to get this running soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhFmVvvNUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhFmVvvNUg)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 25, 2014, 04:03:09 AM
Tommey it looks like a nice build.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 25, 2014, 08:49:00 AM
Tommey, I second that, it's starting to look like an electric airplane motor.

I will plant a seed for next year's PMBO.  It would be all about getting mechanical work out of your pulse motor.  People could standardize on a standard building brick as the weight to lift up.  Say that you have to lift the brick up by one-half meter in height.

So you need to figure out a way to attach a line to the brick.  Assume that everybody will be able to weigh their bricks.  Then you need to figure out a way to lift the brick.  For example, you could get fishing line and some pulley wheels at a hobby shop and make your own pulley system that connects to the shaft of the pulse motor.

You could measure your lift time, and your power/energy requirements and try to make your motor as efficient as possible.  It would be quite a bit of a challenge.  You would probably want to design a pulse motor that can generate some real torque, but that's not absolutely necessary.

<pulse motor> -> <pulley or other lifting system with a certain mechanical advantage> -> <lift a brick up by one-half meter.>
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 25, 2014, 09:19:24 AM
Tommey, I second that, it's starting to look like an electric airplane motor.

I will plant a seed for next year's PMBO.  It would be all about getting mechanical work out of your pulse motor.  People could standardize on a standard building brick as the weight to lift up.  Say that you have to lift the brick up by one-half meter in height.

So you need to figure out a way to attach a line to the brick.  Assume that everybody will be able to weigh their bricks.  Then you need to figure out a way to lift the brick.  For example, you could get fishing line and some pulley wheels at a hobby shop and make your own pulley system that connects to the shaft of the pulse motor.

You could measure your lift time, and your power/energy requirements and try to make your motor as efficient as possible.  It would be quite a bit of a challenge.  You would probably want to design a pulse motor that can generate some real torque, but that's not absolutely necessary.

<pulse motor> -> <pulley or other lifting system with a certain mechanical advantage> -> <lift a brick up by one meter.>
I will require that "for safety" the maximum net vertical acceleration be held to +/-0.5g.  I will then infuse my set-up with an advanced technology known to the privileged few as a counter weight.  TK probably knows why I must insist on the safety precaution.

 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM
I have an idea for a pulse motor based on GAP technology and my magnet core output coil. First take a look at the power side:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to)
 
The following video on the "Neutral Zone" is essential for what comes next. Note the width of the "Neutral Zone" at 2:30:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvP7VuFmNo&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvP7VuFmNo&list=FL3v-1RhhS50L5H2_FYFFBqQ)
 
Now notice at :46 seconds into Konzen's video, a shorted magnet backed coil identical to the GAP power coils in the first video that Doug carefully positions in the "Neutral Zone" to achieve "Lenz Propulsion:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8&list=UUQ6H_iTqiOiZHbdU-Rjf_eg&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8&list=UUQ6H_iTqiOiZHbdU-Rjf_eg&index=1)
 
The power coils and the output coils would be identical in this pulse motor. Magnetite cores, bifilar coils backed by magnets. The rotor N facing out monopole; The circuit Hall sensor Mosfet.
 
Here's what kEhYo has to say about his GAP motor:
 
"In this short clip I am testing this new setup according to Gap-Power_com experiments. The RPM here is 1250, the power is being supplied by 12V 7.5 AHr battery. The current draw is measured as a voltage drop on 0.1 Ohm shunt resistor and its value is 370 mA maximum. There are 6 N52 neodymium magnets on the rotor, the driving coils are bilfilar in series, 2 in series, 4 Ohms total resistance and about 15 mH inductance together. A Hall sensor turns on a MOSFET transistor on an approaching magnet to neutralize repelling force from the stack of magnets behind the driving coils that push the rotor at Top Dead Center when the power is off. In that moment the coil becomes a generator coil as the core (magnetite powder + iron powder + resin) switches polarity and returns much of the energy back to the battery. This can be seen on the scope trace as the lover curve bump, below the marker line. It seems to be a very efficient motor, the cores do not heat up, more testing to come".
 
The point in bold strike is that the power output has nothing to do with rotor induction. The power coil is bifilar. One strand for power the other for output. The power coils are wired in series.
 
The magnet backed output coils would be wired series bifilar, and positioned in the neutral zone to generate "Lenz Propulsion". The output coil leads would be connected to a capacitor and fast switching diode in series. The output would generate from the backing magnet field oscillation over the series bifilar coil windings and be apart from but coupled with rotor induction. This is an overunity concept.
 
The additional feature of this simple design is that the coils can be switched from power to output and vice versa as desired.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 27, 2014, 02:28:49 AM
Hi All,

I added a few more part to this build today, just about ready for me to make the coils next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyYrCgkqv8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDyYrCgkqv8)

Tom
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on November 27, 2014, 11:49:39 PM
Hi Tom, Very nice work.
Are you saying that only 2 cylinders will fire at a time?
Sorry I can't ask at "OUR"
Thanks artv
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 28, 2014, 12:53:02 AM
Hi shylo,

 Well, something like that. Each firing will drive the piston down to a 45 deg rotation to allow the next firing to happen, in others words to fully rotate the motor 360 deg 8 pulse is needed.

Tom...
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 28, 2014, 12:57:40 AM
Hi All,

 Update on this pulse motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56MgyP1ocJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56MgyP1ocJw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2x3neXP7vg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2x3neXP7vg)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on November 28, 2014, 01:30:06 PM
Hi Tom ,I tried to watch the 2 videos you just linked ,but it says you removed them?
artv
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 28, 2014, 02:09:37 PM
Hi Shylo.

 Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.

I have better things to do then put up with jerks!

I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: markdansie on November 28, 2014, 02:51:31 PM
Hi :Boss: long time no hear, I thought it might be you. I hope things are going well for you at last. Thanks for the nice comment, but there are probably just as many people or more, who might donate to a fund to _prevent_ me from retrieving my gear and being more active! Certainly I get more insults and disrespect here than the "average bear" gets.   ;)

Chet, you are talking about driving with a trailer into the Toronto area in the coldest winter we've had in a while? Sleeping in your car? You could easily get buried in the snow, frozen to death on the highway. And who knows what will happen at the Customs entry point. I'd feel much better if the stuff could just be shipped directly from Toronto by a Customs broker/shipping company like Kuhn&Nagel. This might cost a bit more, but it will avoid you having to deal with all that snow and the terrible traffic along the Canadian 401 "freeway" which is the most ridiculous, traffic-congested road I have ever been on. Ten lanes, count'em, ten, in either direction (out near Pearson Airport anyhow) and even in good weather often bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go. They even have tow-trucks pre-positioned in clusters along that highway so that wrecks and stalls can be cleared quickly enough so that people don't freeze to death in their cars. But I just don't know what to expect, maybe the trailer idea is better after all, if the weather is good.
Fortunately there is a Motel 6 (my choice for travel accommodations) with reasonable rates a few miles west of the location at the intersection of Winston Churchill street and the 401. This is on the west side of Toronto, though, and the GDS location in Oshawa is beyond the east side of Toronto, at least an hour, probably more like 90 minutes, of drive time away.
My offer also still stands TK and I am willing to contribute financially to whoever can collect your goods for fuel and some accommodation. I would do it myself if I was still stateside. So whatever gets organised give me an account to send the funds to or I can Western Union it
Kind Regards
Mark Dansie
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 28, 2014, 04:35:18 PM
Tommey
That is very sad Indeed.
some people love watching the Moment by moment building and your real friends will miss that
 however your real friends and well wishers would still comment in these forums
on these threads .
 Perhaps you can do what others do and  "Comments disabled" ??

don't let a little bit spoil the whole...


@Mr.Dansie
please forward a contact to ChetKremens@Gmail.com
I will keep you in the loop and gladly accept your help or anyone else interested.



respectfully
Chet






Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 28, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
Hi Shylo.

 Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.

I have better things to do then put up with jerks!

I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...

Tom
Wow, Tom, that's too bad, I myself think you are doing good work and I was following your radial motor with great interest. It gave me a couple of great ideas, I'd like to build a horizontally-opposed variant using a Scotch Yoke and double-eccentric flywheel cam system along with the linear alternator-drive coil system. The idea to switch coils from driving to generating is a great one and only fully possible with multiple, dual purpose coils like you are developing. Put a nice flywheel on that sucker and you can drive with three coils and generate with five, rolling around the circle, and the flywheel will take up the slack...

I get all kinds of trolls on my YT videos too... can you imagine, I already got two "thumbs downs" on a video I just posted last night, that does nothing more than show my "perpendupetulum" self-starting with a pingpong ball bob! It's a wonder to me how anyone could subscribe to my channel, just so that they can be notified when I post a new video, so that they can drive by and leave a "thumbs down" vote without commenting. I enjoy putting the trolls down though. What has made me consider removing my account and all of my nearly 700 videos is the stupid broken Google+ screwed up commenting system.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 28, 2014, 04:58:00 PM
Mark, please check your PMs, thanks very much!!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 28, 2014, 05:09:49 PM
Hi Shylo.

 Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.

I have better things to do then put up with jerks!

I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...

Tom

Please identify the nasty comment Jerk that upset you.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 28, 2014, 07:50:14 PM
Replacing  kEhYo's GAP Hall sensor and Mosfet circuit with a DPDT reed switch and joining the bifilar wraps would more then double the efficiency of the power coil. Twice the coil turns would generate the same neutralization field for half the input amperage at the same voltage. Additionally, the output from the pole reversal would improve from twice the recovery windings. The same input power could allow for double the backing magnets and twice the propulsion force to the rotor, and twice the recovery output if desired.
 

Extending the discharge time of the switch by reducing the number of rotor magnets would allow for the complete recovery of the demagnetization power. The DPDT switch needs to remain closed for output collection three times longer then the neutralization pulse to allow for full recovery of power from the magnetite core.
 
One such power coil alone, with a two powerful magnets rotor and a DPDT switch with a 3 to1 time ratio would yield an overunity COP.
 
 Here's the video once again:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxrJoGZy1to)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 28, 2014, 08:06:39 PM
Please send me a DPDT reed switch and I'll get on it right away. Or just tell me where to get one.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2014, 08:23:57 PM
I really hope that the Powers That Be take my suggestion seriously about doing something useful with a pulse motor for next year's PMBO, like lifting a brick.  There is just no point in watching a motor spin and doing nothing.  Charging a second battery with less charging power than the power draw to run the motor itself?  That will put me to sleep at this point in time.

I understand that people can be fascinated by pulse motors but eventually they have to get burnt out on them and hopefully want to take it to the next level.

Perhaps a PMBO with three classes:

1.  Just a spinning motor.
2.  Spinning motor lifting a brick.
3.  Spinning motor lifting a brick with serious measurements that are properly documented.

C'mon boys, get some juices flowing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu0uQwjmVls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu0uQwjmVls)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1TP3opCxI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1TP3opCxI)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 28, 2014, 08:34:51 PM
Please send me a DPDT reed switch and I'll get on it right away. Or just tell me where to get one.

I would gladly send you the switch, but it's in Northern California and I'm currently in Costa Rica. I'll go to work and try to re-locate the manufacturer. It's a heavy duty industrial switch, it would turn into a cherished component if you could get ahold of one. 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 28, 2014, 09:38:39 PM
Hi Shylo.

 Sorry, but I got some nasty comments and thought it would be best to just remove my account.

I have better things to do then put up with jerks!

I really didn't expect them, so I will only put up my finished PMBO before Dec. 14th...

Tom
That sucks.  I have enjoyed watching the videos so far and the great work you've been doing.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 28, 2014, 11:05:53 PM
Please send me a DPDT reed switch and I'll get on it right away. Or just tell me where to get one.

@Tinselkoala,
 
I located one in the UK. 12 volt, costing 12.58 pounds:
 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/)
 
All one needs to do to test for self running, is position the magnet core GAP power coil in the neutral zone then bias this "DPDT Reed Relay" closed for output by attaching a tiny magnet to it. The coil needs to be in series with a rectifying diode and storage capacitor. This should speed the rotor up with "Lenz Propulsion", above "Lenz Delay Threshold RPM". You'll believe my neo sphere is self propelled if you get the same effect with the GAP rotor driven by "Lenz Delay" output coils. This DPDT Relay is normally closed on one side, with no neutral position. The charging event will last until the next power pulse triggers automatically. Power runs directly through the relay, with a potentiometer between the relay and battery. Naturally the power cycle is needed to accelerate the rotor to threshold speed. Good luck!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 29, 2014, 01:11:24 AM
Synchro1, an open coil provides the fastest motion.  When using an external magnet, the motion of the magnet creates a changing magnetic field that induces voltage across the coil.  If current is allowed to flow through the coil, the resulting magnetic field opposes the voltage inducing magnetic field.  That makes less flux available to act on the reeds.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 29, 2014, 02:49:38 AM
Hi All,

 Ok started another YouTube account..

This is my pulse motor update.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GmeBtK6vM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GmeBtK6vM)

Tom
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 03:04:57 AM
Synchro1, an open coil provides the fastest motion.  When using an external magnet, the motion of the magnet creates a changing magnetic field that induces voltage across the coil.  If current is allowed to flow through the coil, the resulting magnetic field opposes the voltage inducing magnetic field.  That makes less flux available to act on the reeds.

@MarkE,

The Reed Switch is triggered by the rotor magnets before they encounter the coil. Take a look at Doug Konzen's coil shorting video linked above. Doug gets zero "Lenz Propulsion" with the coil leads open. We get the acceleration when the coil is in output mode under load. The one DPDT Reed Switch handles all the coils in series. Perhaps I have you confused when saying the switch is closed? When the switch is closed, the contacts are touching and the circuit is open. The other thing is, the coil is charged to attract the rotor magnet in the neutralization phase and not affected by rotor induction. I hope that helped.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 03:30:39 AM
@TommyLeeReed,

                              Awesome!
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 29, 2014, 04:32:58 AM

@Tinselkoala,
 
I located one in the UK. 12 volt, costing 12.58 pounds:
 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/ (http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-relays/3491774/)
 
All one needs to do to test for self running, is position the magnet core GAP power coil in the neutral zone then bias this "DPDT Reed Relay" closed for output by attaching a tiny magnet to it. The coil needs to be in series with a rectifying diode and storage capacitor. This should speed the rotor up with "Lenz Propulsion", above "Lenz Delay Threshold RPM". You'll believe my neo sphere is self propelled if you get the same effect with the GAP rotor driven by "Lenz Delay" output coils. This DPDT Relay is normally closed on one side, with no neutral position. The charging event will last until the next power pulse triggers automatically. Power runs directly through the relay, with a potentiometer between the relay and battery. Naturally the power cycle is needed to accelerate the rotor to threshold speed. Good luck!
Thanks, but that is not a reed switch, it is a reed _relay_. Do you really not understand the difference? I have dozens of small reed relays, and some of them can at times be used as reed switches. 
Where did you get the idea of biasing a reed _relay_ with an external magnet so that it will work as a switch in a pulse motor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLBrRfXfJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLBrRfXfJ0)

(And feel free to post a video of your self running system, with some continuous measurement of rotor RPM so we can be sure that it isn't slowing down while "running" itself with no external power. I'll believe your neo sphere is selfpropelled when you can show that it doesn't slow down, over a reasonable amount of time, say ten minutes, with no external power or stored-up capacitor power.)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: John.K1 on November 29, 2014, 01:17:12 PM
Just a quick peek to this forum:  :)
 
Guysl, have you tried to make a resonant circuit made of winding of stator and capacitor? And to use your Opamp as an comparator together with power switch to keep LC tank in resonance and see what happen ;)

There is a document of Ing. Kopecky from 2002 who did some calculations. I was trying to find that document on the internet for you but for some reason the pictures are missing there :) To make a long story short the final words from that pages are:

"...  What does that mean ? If we can increase the frequency of the supply voltage , while maintaining the LC circuit at resonance, the input power remains the same and is equal only to active losses in the winding:  Pp = Rv × I2 , ( 27) , but output power will grow linearly with angular frequency (omega symbol) according to equation  P = dA/dt = F×r×w = M×w  !   (w.. omega symbol)

The document without pictures here: http://www.oil-saving.wz.cz/htm/RezMotorUvod.htm      (it is in Czech, use Google translate ;)  )
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
Thanks, but that is not a reed switch, it is a reed _relay_. Do you really not understand the difference? I have dozens of small reed relays, and some of them can at times be used as reed switches. 
Where did you get the idea of biasing a reed _relay_ with an external magnet so that it will work as a switch in a pulse motor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLBrRfXfJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLBrRfXfJ0)

(And feel free to post a video of your self running system, with some continuous measurement of rotor RPM so we can be sure that it isn't slowing down while "running" itself with no external power. I'll believe your neo sphere is selfpropelled when you can show that it doesn't slow down, over a reasonable amount of time, say ten minutes, with no external power or stored-up capacitor power.)

What are you trying to be funny again? I uploaded a video of Leon Dragone's "Magnet Pump" and the DPDT relay he used. The GAP rotor's a monopole. Your video is just another worthless piece of crap with a two pole rotor and all the tortured techniques you use to improvise rotor rotation.
 
The Reed Relay has eight pins. Two of the pins are for mounting and are inert. The GAP motor would have the two neutralization coils in series, leaving two leads which would solder to the center pins. The battery in series with a potentiometer would attach to the normally open pins on one end, and the storage capacitor in series with a fast switching diode would attach to the normally closed set of pins on the other end. The Reed Relay triggers from one pole and that's the pole you want to face out from the monopole rotor. You can easily test the relay for the closed side with a battery and 12 volt light bulb. Also the trigger pole polarity.
 
The other point is positioning the coils in the neutral zone for "Lenz Propusion". I think simply fastening a small wood block to the back of the core magnets would work. The coils need to be across the neutral zone toward the magnet rotor to propel the rotor in opposition when the coil discharges. After the rotor is over "Lenz Delay Threshold" speed, the coils need to be re-positioned an inch or so back against the wood blocks. Elastic bands would be enough to hold the coils down and allow for sliding. The Reed Relay needs to be frozen in position with a tiny magnet for constant output.

I kept my self propelled spinner running overnight. This GAP Konzen motor design has the potential to self run with much less hazard and greater output. The one inch sphere only ouputs a few hundred milliwatts.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 29, 2014, 04:44:06 PM
Insult me and my work all you like, you are just another blowhard false claimant with no credibility who cannot provide any evidence for your claims. Kept it running overnight, without any outside or stored power, and no slowing down of the rotation? PROVE IT. You will not and cannot. Meanwhile, we already know how you misrepresent and make false claims about the work of other people, so why should anyone believe your present distortions?
And I am still waiting for you to show me a DPDT reed SWITCH, that does not have a coil wrapped around it and encapsulated as a reed relay. It will have six terminals. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I can't find one anywhere I've looked, and I doubt if you can either. PROVE ME WRONG, if you can. Or just go ahead and keep on making false claims and insulting me instead of providing support for what you say, I don't really care. There are many awards and prizes that you could easily win if you were telling the truth.... so why haven't you applied for them? I know why, and so does everybody else reading this thread.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 05:12:14 PM
@Tinselkoala,
 
You promote yourself as some kind of electronics genius with repetitive convoluted circuits. Can you scarf some blinking Christmas bulbs on it for us? KISS keep it simple stupid!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 29, 2014, 05:30:53 PM
Bait and switch!  Bait and switch!  lol
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 29, 2014, 05:36:25 PM
Hey fellahs
this ain't the MO of this thread.
Synchro you want Tinsel to Build your Idea
send  an Email to ChetKremens@gmail.com


We'll see to it he gets everything you require to replicate.


please change course here...
this Pulse motor thread is Hallowed  ground.


Lets make solutions not pollutions....


Respectfully
ChetKremens@gmail.com
ps
Synchro
 
if you refuse this offer please do not continue this very poor path here.
there are some here that just can't wait to argue and offer no other solution
TinselKoala is NOT one of those people
PPS
I post this offer with his approval..
and
 PPS
speaking of "likes to  fight"
please don't take the Bait below .




Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 29, 2014, 06:09:51 PM

@MarkE,

The Reed Switch is triggered by the rotor magnets before they encounter the coil. Take a look at Doug Konzen's coil shorting video linked above. Doug gets zero "Lenz Propulsion" with the coil leads open. We get the acceleration when the coil is in output mode under load. The one DPDT Reed Switch handles all the coils in series. Perhaps I have you confused when saying the switch is closed? When the switch is closed, the contacts are touching and the circuit is open. The other thing is, the coil is charged to attract the rotor magnet in the neutralization phase and not affected by rotor induction. I hope that helped.
Connecting the coil in a closed circuit consumes energy from the KE of the passing magnets.  It acts as a brake.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 29, 2014, 06:22:33 PM
@MarkE,

You're not taking the "Lenz Delay" factor into account. Please review the Doug Konzen video I linked.
 
 TK wants to sledge a point home with a pedantic "Grammar Hammer".
 
@Ramset,
 
I wouldn't trust either TK or MH to shine my shoes! My idea is for the group to benefit from. This is a beginner circuit anyone can master. One more thing: The DPDT Reed Relay comes in either pole trigger configuration, however a generic variety can come either way, so it's best to determine this in advance if you choose one pole over the other for your choice of rotor pole facing magnets.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 29, 2014, 06:46:20 PM
Synchro
We have other builders [in the group]


please start another topic[thread] if you must be so volatile, this thread  truly is for highlighting the "good" in OUR community .
not a place to spread  Bitterness and contempt.


We give you an OUT ??


if you are unable to deliver this just say so [info for replication].


respectfully
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 29, 2014, 09:19:56 PM
Hi All,

This is the electronics of the pulse motor.

first step to control the firing of the pulse motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVPeG40f2Uw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVPeG40f2Uw)

Tom  8)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 29, 2014, 10:13:04 PM
It looks like it is coming along nicely.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 29, 2014, 10:16:37 PM
@MarkE,

You're not taking the "Lenz Delay" factor into account. Please review the Doug Konzen video I linked.
 
 TK wants to sledge a point home with a pedantic "Grammar Hammer".
 
@Ramset,
 
I wouldn't trust either TK or MH to shine my shoes! My idea is for the group to benefit from. This is a beginner circuit anyone can master. One more thing: The DPDT Reed Relay comes in either pole trigger configuration, however a generic variety can come either way, so it's best to determine this in advance if you choose one pole over the other for your choice of rotor pole facing magnets.
Synchro, magnetic viscosity is a loss mechanism.  It can be modeled as either a force that opposes the motion, IE like friction it always points against the direction of motion, or it can alternatively be modeled as a magnetic field that always opposes change in the actual magnetic field.  Again that acts as a loss. 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 29, 2014, 10:33:03 PM
Those who can, do. Those who cannot... just revert to insults when they are challenged to prove their claims.

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on November 29, 2014, 10:40:06 PM
An Update from the Host /sponsor
here

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2159.msg29188
Tom I see your Sunglass's post

 8)

Thx for looking
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on November 29, 2014, 11:04:02 PM
Quote
there are some here that just can't wait to argue and offer no other solution

If you are sniping at me Chet, go foof.  In this very thread I already described how to build a more advanced pulse motor than we have ever seen yet.  Anybody can run with the idea if they want to.  Plus I encourage people to do more serious measurements.  This build off is just a variation on an egg dropping contest.  You don't have to take it that seriously.  Plus I fight what I am very certain is crime that could hurt people, people on this very forum.  That's opposed to you in your enthusiasm where you can be a facilitator for criminality.  Then there are people that can lower the S/N ratio of the forum and sometimes pointing out the noise is a good thing.  "Who is going to be the first person to bounce a longitudinal EM wave off the moon to "prove" that longitudinal waves travel faster than the speed of light?"  Yeah sure.  You see yourself as offering solutions, and sometimes I don't see it like that at all.  Nor are you the Thought Police.  Your "fun" is not more important than my "fun" or anybody else's "fun."
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: minnie on November 29, 2014, 11:25:41 PM



 Tommey,
           I'm so glad that you're back,up and running. You are obviously very talented at visualising
a device and building it. I'm really looking forward to seeing/hearing it purring away under its own
coils.
       John.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on November 29, 2014, 11:39:18 PM
Just a quick peek to this forum:  :)
 
Guysl, have you tried to make a resonant circuit made of winding of stator and capacitor? And to use your Opamp as an comparator together with power switch to keep LC tank in resonance and see what happen ;)

There is a document of Ing. Kopecky from 2002 who did some calculations. I was trying to find that document on the internet for you but for some reason the pictures are missing there :) To make a long story short the final words from that pages are:

"...  What does that mean ? If we can increase the frequency of the supply voltage , while maintaining the LC circuit at resonance, the input power remains the same and is equal only to active losses in the winding:  Pp = Rv × I2 , ( 27) , but output power will grow linearly with angular frequency (omega symbol) according to equation  P = dA/dt = F×r×w = M×w  !   (w.. omega symbol)

The document without pictures here: http://www.oil-saving.wz.cz/htm/RezMotorUvod.htm (http://www.oil-saving.wz.cz/htm/RezMotorUvod.htm)      (it is in Czech, use Google translate ;)  )

Hi John,

There is info in some PDF files from Ladislav Kopecky on the motor you mention, he applied also for a patent on it. The files are also in Czech...

http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/projekt-rm.pdf (http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/projekt-rm.pdf) 

http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/rm-pll.pdf (http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/rm-pll.pdf)

http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/rm-1f-h.pdf (http://free-energy.webpark.cz/teorie/rez-motor/rm-1f-h.pdf)   

Patent application: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040616&CC=CZ&NR=20023431A3&KC=A3 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040616&CC=CZ&NR=20023431A3&KC=A3)

The PDF files come from this Czech site: http://free-energy.webpark.cz/ (http://free-energy.webpark.cz/)

Cheers,
Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on November 30, 2014, 12:12:22 AM
@MarkE,
 
I resurrected my old "Magnet Core Coil Lenz Delay" thread to address your comment because Chet rolled me up over here on this one.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on November 30, 2014, 01:51:38 AM
I see you're getting caught up with leaving your droppings. But you missed a few of my recent videos, maybe you should check my channel and list them in chronological order.

"Most advanced PM"? That's a laugh. You still cannot support your claims with any proof, demonstration of your own or any solid supporting evidence, and I am calling time, you owe me a cheeseburger, you welsher.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on November 30, 2014, 11:30:01 AM
Hi All,

I would have to back Chet on this one, this is a Pulse Motor Forum and not who has the best ideas.

I know sometimes ego gets in the way, I have even been down that road many times myself.

It's still time to enter this build, I would hope other will join in and show off the skills we all have.

Best to all who joins.

Tom

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on November 30, 2014, 01:39:45 PM
@MarkE,
 
I resurrected my old "Magnet Core Coil Lenz Delay" thread to address your comment because Chet rolled me up over here on this one.
Whatever your motivation, you are promoting claims that are wrong for the reasons that I have already explained.  If you dispute this and are actually interested in the truth, then I will gladly work with you to define experiments that you can perform so as to determine the truth to your own satisfaction.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 05:36:01 AM
Hi All,

This is my update on the 2014 pulse motor build off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h86yZ1g4qU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h86yZ1g4qU)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 06:34:40 AM
Looks very good Tom. Elaborate and expensive, but really good. You've been working really hard on that system and I'm sure it will work as you plan, once the programming is sorted. I'm looking forward to seeing it running and charging up the capacitor bank. The microcontroller does give you a great deal of adjustment and makes the process easy, much easier than moving sensors around or fiddling with timing component values. Myself, I'd use an Arduino instead of a bare chip, because that gives me the ability to set all those adjustable parameters live, while running, over the serial line to my computer. But that also means I'm not programming at the most basic level and so I'm not learning as much.

I suppose I'll submit my push-pull MescalMotor as an entry, even though it's just a silly toy and not nearly as cool or elaborate as your design, and doesn't do anything except pulse back and forth. Just to have a hat in the ring, even though there are already many better PMs entered.  The only thing I can say for my build is that I didn't spend a penny of "new money" on it, it's totally made from stuff I had lying around anyhow.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 06:45:23 AM
HI TInsel,

 My cost was about $50.00 out of pocket, yet I have tons of parts and 20+ microcontroller   chips at a cost of $2each.

Arduino boards cost much more, but it's a good start also.

I just may have to add another controller, due to not having enough input/output ports per chip...

One chip takes up most of the ports due to the LCD screen. The other needs to run the motor timing and so on...

Tom...

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 07:08:34 AM
HI TInsel,

 My cost was about $50.00 out of pocket, yet I have tons of parts and 20+ microcontroller   chips at a cost of $2each.

Arduino boards cost much more, but it's a good start also.

I just may have to add another controller, due to not having enough input/output ports per chip...

One chip takes up most of the ports due to the LCD screen. The other needs to run the motor timing and so on...

Tom...
Yep, I know what you mean, with a standard LCD you need a lot of wires. You might check out the "Parallax" brand LCD screens, they use a single data line and the two power wires, so you get full control of the LCD with only one data output port from your MCU. And you can get, for example, an Arduino "pro mini" for about 4 dollars each from China, or around 10 dollars from the genuine Arduino folks or SparkFun, etc. It uses the same Atmel chip, or rather a smd version of it. For that one you need an "ftdi" usb interface for programming though, another few dollars, but you only need one, can use it for all the pro minis you need.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
Hi All,

This is my update on the 2014 pulse motor build off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h86yZ1g4qU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h86yZ1g4qU)

Tom
So just a little note here:  In order to protect the switching MOSFETs you want the inductance loop from the MOSFET drain through the catch diode back to where the + side of the coil connects to the power supply as possible.  See the drawing below:
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 08:19:11 AM
HI TInsel,

 My cost was about $50.00 out of pocket, yet I have tons of parts and 20+ microcontroller   chips at a cost of $2each.

Arduino boards cost much more, but it's a good start also.

I just may have to add another controller, due to not having enough input/output ports per chip...

One chip takes up most of the ports due to the LCD screen. The other needs to run the motor timing and so on...

Tom...
Most parallel interface LCDs can operate in a nybble wide mode that cuts the number of data lines down from 8 to 4.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 02:19:41 PM
HI Mark E,

Not what I'm doing, it's more like a pump circuit design with extra diode that protects mosfets.


Tom...
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 03:02:16 PM
HI Mark E,

Not what I'm doing, it's more like a pump circuit design with extra diode that protects mosfets.


Tom...
Tommey, for a low-side switch such as you have drawn, the voltage rise that will appear at the drain terminal of the MOSFET will be the sum of the LSTRAY * di/dt between the drain and where the catch diode cathode connects to the circulating current loop through the inductor.  If I interpreted your video correctly you have a circuit board for the MOSFETs and the diodes mounted on a separate block.  The wiring between those two assemblies will develop LSTRAY * di/dt voltage that the MOSFETs will have to tolerate.

If you want to recover back to the power supply then the conceptual circuit below can do that by replacing the SPST switch with a high side driver.  Then you have three phases:  MOSFET ON, MOSFET OFF coil discharge into the capacitor, and then capacitor discharge back through the coil to the supply.  The more conventional method is a full H bridge that just drives the coil and then discharges back into the supply.  Any of the modern H bridge drivers will do that for you.   You only need the top transistor and diode on one side and the bottom transistor and diode on the other side of your coil, a so-called "X" configuration.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
Hi Mark,

I forgot the other diode from my drawing and also my diodes are going the wrong way....

Sorry, try to answer too fast without thinking...But it works in my design...Never had any mofets blown. ;D

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
Hi Mark,

This is it.


Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 01, 2014, 04:36:30 PM
The diodes on the right as shown block al current from the power supply.  If you reverse them, then they don't do anything except dissipate power.  The diode on the left dissipates power and prevents reverse conduction through the MOSFET that could occur with long wiring loops.

Generally speaking it takes two SPDT switches to be able to drive current into a coil and then recover most of that energy back into the power source because you have to turn the current around with respect to the power supply while the current through the coil will only be going one way when it flows.  An alternative is to wind a transformer and use the secondary with a diode to reclaim the magnetization energy.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 09:11:33 PM
I think I might submit this toy for the PMBO just so that I can have an entry in place this year (missed last year). There are far better ones, I know, but all  my better ones are already built so are ineligible and I'm fresh out of ideas. So far my vote would be for Tommey's build, whether it pops mosfets or recharges itself or not. I love the radial engine/microprocessor/linear alternator combo idea.
But watch out for Lidmotor: he's the king of PM builders and it will be interesting to see what he comes up with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBIs9CA6K70

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 01, 2014, 11:13:49 PM
Hi All,

 There is no problem with my design, this is a update on testing BEMF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UZU5JU8v8

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 01, 2014, 11:18:10 PM
Hi All,

 There is no problem with my design, this is a update on testing BEMF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UZU5JU8v8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UZU5JU8v8)

Tom

Man, I know you are going to win this time!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 01:00:19 AM
Hi All,

 There is no problem with my design, this is a update on testing BEMF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UZU5JU8v8

Tom
Tom it's looking good and you still have almost two weeks. If it works the way you want, then great.  If you get surprised and want some advice on the circuitry I am happy to offer it.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 02:30:08 AM
Hi All,

Test run on the radial pulse motor..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yFko2dI_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yFko2dI_M)

Tom (http://www.overunityresearch.com/Smileys/Alive/afro.gif)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 02:49:27 AM
Hi All,

Test run on the radial pulse motor..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yFko2dI_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yFko2dI_M)

Tom (http://www.overunityresearch.com/Smileys/Alive/afro.gif)
I love the sound of the thing.  Let me know if you need any help on the driver heating issue.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 03:30:13 AM
Hi Mark,

 I need to add a pwm to the power input, that will control the heating due to start up load.

I also will try 24 gauge magnet wire 100ft at 2.567 ohms, I'm using 18 gauge now.

My BEMF works great, lots of kick back from the 18 gauge coil...

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: synchro1 on December 02, 2014, 04:31:59 AM
@TommyLeeReed,

Congratulations. I've never been more impressed by anything!
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 06:22:19 AM
Hi All,

Second test run, this time using a pwm to control speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 06:38:58 AM
Tom
I agree with Mark E
the sound is quite cool [simulates the loping recip noise at low rpm]
I am also Sharing your builds [and others] here.


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19856-pulse-motor-build-off-2014-a.html#post267152


thanks for sharing


Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 02, 2014, 08:27:54 AM
"Round sounds" all right.
 ;)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 02:24:41 PM
Hi All,

I have put my videos on hold until Dec 14th and won't allow no more videos until this build off is finished.

I still have lots more to do, but If I plan to win I don't won't to show my complete finished radial engine yet.

I locked all video until Dec 14th.

Thanks and I hope you all understand.....

I'm in it to win guys ;D

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 02:56:26 PM
Tom
Ohh Noo
not the iron curtain !!   8) 8) 8)


Actually Perfectly Understandable in a competition Venue.


I suppose it would be like telling your Karate opponent prior to every punch, exactly
what you were about to do...
pretty good recipe for a Whippin......


An Update from Russ's site [the PMBO host]


http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2159.msg29188


thx
and good luck
Chet



Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 03:09:03 PM
Hi Chet,

I posted this on Russ site:

Hi All,

After many years of claiming this was a kids game , I thought it would be great to play this year.

I believe those that use 3d printing are lazy in this basic build off, it's not a even playing field for those that want to join in the fun.

If you can't get your hands dirty, then maybe next year build off you can have different classes...

I like to show all of my skills, so I will build just about every part by hand, I will use a microcontroller , my basics electronics understanding and programming skills.

This is a sneak peek of my build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CecIq4G5lFE


Tom :o
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 03:21:25 PM
Tom
I like your idea of categories ,[not sure if they have these already??]
maybe next year we see if they'll allow a forum entry category ?


maybe some of the regulars could sponsor a build  thru a chosen builder
at each forum??


who knows? ,


one thing I do Know ...
Competition is always good for Us fellahs [and girls too ] and always leads to improvements
in the world and society.


and here everybody wins !!


Thx
Chet
[size=78%] [/size]


 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 03:25:26 PM
Hi All,

Second test run, this time using a pwm to control speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8)

Tom
Private?
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 03:41:42 PM
Mark E
works here
[you have to read the previous few posts]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CecIq4G5lFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CecIq4G5lFE)


Tom
Next year http://keelynet.com/energy/clemindex.htm (http://keelynet.com/energy/clemindex.htm)


Maybe a simple engine category ?
or engine efficiency category ??  8)



put some real Meat on the table....
thx
Chet
PS
Yes I see below ,NOW  you read Tom's comment on the previous Page.
a contest is a foot
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 03:57:24 PM
Mark E
works here
[you have to read the previous few posts]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CecIq4G5lFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CecIq4G5lFE)


Tom
Next year http://keelynet.com/energy/clemindex.htm (http://keelynet.com/energy/clemindex.htm)


Maybe a simple engine category ?
or engine efficiency category ??  8)



put some real Meat on the table....
thx
Chet
Chet that's not the PWM video.  I read further on that Tom doesn't want to expose all his work before the contest ends.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 02, 2014, 04:12:10 PM
Hi all,

Just for the day I will allow to show this second test run....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 04:28:08 PM
Hi all,

Just for the day I will allow to show this second test run....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8)

Tom
It looks great.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on December 02, 2014, 07:23:00 PM
Hi All, I put a video on you tube but I don't know how to put in the link?
http://youtu.be/Pzgq5qqquel
Just to show anyone can build and experiment.
I gotta get more coils.
artv
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 07:27:46 PM
shylo the video shows as unavailable.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on December 02, 2014, 07:43:59 PM
I don't know how to do the link
Type this in the address bar, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzgq5qqquel&feature=youtu.be
I suck at computers
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 07:53:15 PM
Shylo
the pitts are open for a little while longer to the public,and  then the Crew chief
says no more views until the Race [or contest day]


here watch it while its up [then it will be removed[ until the next time  ;D ]]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR6fkkr_w8 [copy paste it into address bar]


enjoy
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 08:06:09 PM
I don't know how to do the link
Type this in the address bar, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzgq5qqquel&feature=youtu.be
I suck at computers
With the video up, go to the address bar of your browser, hit the home key, then hold down the shift key and hit the end key.  Release both keys. The entire address should then be highlighted. Hold down the ctrl key and then click c. (Or go to the browser menu and click Edit Copy) The whole address should then be copied into the computer's clipboard memory.  Paste the address using Ctrl V or Edit Paste.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on December 02, 2014, 08:31:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzgq5qqqueI&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzgq5qqqueI&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 02, 2014, 08:39:46 PM
I think that the simplicity is ingenious.  The reason that the capacitor charges above the battery voltage is that the capacitor is charged by the flyback action of the coil.  First current builds up in the coil when the battery is connected across it, and then when you interrupt the negative side of the coil that voltage "flys back" untill the diode conducts and the current flows into the capacitor.  The capacitor voltage charges up each time that happens.  The voltage goes down as you drain charge out of the capacitor.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on December 03, 2014, 12:24:49 AM
Thanks Mark, that makes sense,
If I had more generating coils, I could up the speed of the pulses to the battery,?
That should help right?
artv
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 03, 2014, 12:53:50 AM
Thanks Mark, that makes sense,
If I had more generating coils, I could up the speed of the pulses to the battery,?
That should help right?
artv
If you go to more than two coils then you will have more average torque that will accelerate the wheel and your switches will turn on and off faster.  You will also be dumping more power into your capacitor because of the additional coils and the faster operation.  At some point you will need to be mindful of the power dissipation in whatever you are using to discharge the capacitors as well as how high the capacitors charge.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 03, 2014, 09:09:11 AM
here we have another entry ready for prime time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw)


enjoy


@Toad
keep a flipper to the ground [sending a PM]
[not sure if toads has ears.... :o ]


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: shylo on December 03, 2014, 10:34:41 AM
Hi Mark, you say I will have to be mindful of the power disapation for what I'm using to dump the caps.
The first switch I show is what dumps the caps ,it is just controlled by a passing magnet that cuts off the drive coils and engages the caps for discharge.
How can there be any power drain here?
Thanks for your time.
artv
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 03, 2014, 01:38:53 PM
If for purposes of simplicity we assume that your coils have no resistance, and are linear, then each coil dumps an energy:  EIND = 0.5*L*I2 into your capacitors.  The resistance of the circuit plus the switch must dissipate that energy as heat each cycle.  Total up the coils, multiply that by frequency at which each coil cycles and multiply by the current squared divided by two and you have the average powe tht will be dissipated.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 03, 2014, 03:28:41 PM



here we have another entry ready for prime time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw)


enjoy


@Toad
keep a flipper to the ground [sending a PM]
[not sure if toads have ears....  ]


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 04, 2014, 02:12:51 AM
That one should be called the "OnanMotor".   ;)

Meanwhile, the MescalMotor, which started as a project to reverse engineer the electronic Levitron, is coming along nicely. It's just a little toy compared to those ones up above, but it contains a few basic concepts that might be useful to other builders. Self-timed by shadows falling on CdS photoresistors configured as a "light operated potentiometer" which is fed to one of the inputs of a 741 bipolar-supply op-amp (the other input gets a feedback from the driver stage to smooth out the shape of the output response ramp). The Output of the op-amp then drives the bases of the PNP and NPN transistors in the push-pull output stage, which then drives the electromagnet coil, reversing its polarity according to which photoresisitor is shadowed by the ends of the sliding rod. The rod has magnets simply stuck to the ends in a NS===[coil]===SN configuration so that the coil attracts one side and repels the other side, and swaps when the coil polarity is flipped by the push-pull output stage. Push-pull, get it? The magnets have little grommets glued to the outer ends and a 5mm plastic air-soft BB inserted into the grommet hole, to make a nice striker for the piezoelectric elements which are mounted so that they bend a little bit when struck. It took me a few hours of trial and error to get the right mounting strategy for these elements that gave the highest voltages when struck by the oscillating rod. The outputs of the piezos are "alternate-parallel" into the fullwave bridge of 1n5817 Schottky diodes, and a 470 uF capacitor on the DC side of the bridge. From a cold start, it takes about 30 seconds to pump up the capacitor to where it will light up the green LED, which starts glowing at about 2.05 V or so. The piezo generators supply enough current now, though, to allow the voltage to climb as high as 2.22-2.24 V, which indicates that the LED is getting plenty current to glow fully bright. With no load on the FWB, the capacitor voltage will  climb to just under 9V... all on the output of the two small piezo buzzer discs alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTDitrH3glI

It's not nearly as elaborate as Tommey's motor, nor as powerful as the electromagnetic generator in the video above... but I didn't spend one cent of "new money" on it, it is entirely built with scavenged parts or parts and supplies purchased a long time ago for other projects. The Piezo discs, for example, have been kicking around in my junk box for around 12 years, I bought them at Halted Sales in California for about 5 cents each, still have 20 or so to use up somehow. Transistors salvaged from an MRI control board, wires from old CRT monitor cables, magnets bought a long time ago for magnet motor projects, CdS photoresistors donated by Fried Mike, op-amp from CRT monitor,  etc etc. All stuck together with Gel Superglue from the Dollar Store, two tubes for a dollar, can't live without that stuff any more, it works fast and sticks just about anything to anything else, works very well with the wood I use for frames, which is lauan mahogany plywood floor underlayment 5mm, also very cheap.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: hoptoad on December 04, 2014, 08:45:01 AM

here we have another entry ready for prime time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgX5cz1SMiw)
enjoy
@Toad
keep a flipper to the ground [sending a PM]
[not sure if toads have ears....  ]
thx
Chet


And now for something completely different ...... great video. That is certainly a different design approach. I love the imaginative yet simple designs that go into some motors. Does that central piston (magnet ?) follow a spiral path as it goes up and down the shaft ? I've got a pretty poor resolution screen and its hard to see some things very well.


Cheers.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 04, 2014, 01:00:07 PM
There is an additional Prize offer in the wind ....
we shall see if it gets the OK .


has to do with Looping....?


good stuff indeed.


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 04, 2014, 11:22:51 PM
@hoptoad: the plunger, if it does rotate as it goes up and down, is doing so because of mechanical effects, not any "magnetic vortex". However I don't think I see any rotation. The plunger shaft in my MescalMotor may occasionally rotate, due to the offcenter striking of the balls on the ends of the shafts, a mechanical effect similar to the way the camshaft will rotate the valve lifter bodies (as designed) by offcenter striking while an internal combustion engine is running.


Here's a scopeshot of the raw piezo output from the MescalMotor as shown in my video above, just for documentary purposes. This is with the FWB/Capacitor/greenLED load in place. The unloaded output has spikes that go over 9V. (18v p-p)

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: hoptoad on December 05, 2014, 04:36:23 AM
@hoptoad: the plunger, if it does rotate as it goes up and down, is doing so because of mechanical effects, not any "magnetic vortex". However I don't think I see any rotation.
snip....


Thanks TK. I couldn't work out if their was a spiral groove on the shaft or it was just the springs that made it look that way.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: hoptoad on December 05, 2014, 08:24:38 AM
I don't know if Lasersaber is entering the pulse motor build off or not, but here's another great offering from him on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVquLozWVm8&list=UUIKzUKkh7XtnSYPW0AJb-9w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVquLozWVm8&list=UUIKzUKkh7XtnSYPW0AJb-9w)

Cheers.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 05, 2014, 08:39:57 AM
I don't know if Lasersaber is entering the pulse motor build off or not, but here's another great offering from him on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVquLozWVm8&list=UUIKzUKkh7XtnSYPW0AJb-9w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVquLozWVm8&list=UUIKzUKkh7XtnSYPW0AJb-9w)

Cheers.

It's interesting, isn't it, that he can use a DMM as a voltmeter to get a voltage reading, then simply change the switch setting and get a current reading, without changing any wiring connections. I sure wish I had a DMM that worked that way, it would save a lot of trouble.

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: hoptoad on December 05, 2014, 11:48:01 AM
It's interesting, isn't it, that he can use a DMM as a voltmeter to get a voltage reading, then simply change the switch setting and get a current reading, without changing any wiring connections. I sure wish I had a DMM that worked that way, it would save a lot of trouble.


LOL. - As usual, in my Over exhUberance, I didn't notice the little details !   :P
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 05, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
It's interesting, isn't it, that he can use a DMM as a voltmeter to get a voltage reading, then simply change the switch setting and get a current reading, without changing any wiring connections. I sure wish I had a DMM that worked that way, it would save a lot of trouble.

Hi TinselKoala,

I was also surprised to see how he checked the current, just turning the usual rotary switch but not re-plug from the Volt input to the Amper input...  and I managed to capture a snapshot from his video where the labels are just readable enough, see the attachment.

So there are such DMMs that are able to measure current and voltage using the same input plugging to both, I did not know about this. Here is a link to this meter type he uses:  http://www.southwiretools.com/tools/tools/10040N   and there are only 3 inputs instead of the usual 4: from left to right there is the 10A, Common and the 3rd is all the rest (Volt, Ohm, Temp ect).

Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 05, 2014, 05:31:48 PM
Hi TinselKoala,

I was also surprised to see how he checked the current, just turning the usual rotary switch but not re-plug from the Volt input to the Amper input...  and I managed to capture a snapshot from his video where the labels are just readable enough, see the attachment.

So there are such DMMs that are able to measure current and voltage using the same input plugging to both, I did not know about this. Here is a link to this meter type he uses:  http://www.southwiretools.com/tools/tools/10040N (http://www.southwiretools.com/tools/tools/10040N)   and there are only 3 inputs instead of the usual 4: from left to right there is the 10A, Common and the 3rd is all the rest (Volt, Ohm, Temp ect).

Gyula

What do you mean, "The usual 4" inputs? I have six or more DMMs from different manufacturers that have only the usual THREE inputs. The only one I have that has 4 inputs is the Fluke 83, and its "4th" input is a fused high-current Amp input. The other three usual inputs are assigned, one to volts and ohms, one to mA and uA, with one common for them all. The cheapo 3-jack meters have one _unfused_ 10A input, and one fused  V/mA/ohms input, and one common.

The point is not how the plugs in the meter are wired but how the meter is connected to the circuit. If you monitor voltage, you connect the meter directly _across_ the output of the voltage source you are monitoring. If you then simply switch the meter to the "amps" range, you are then creating a short-circuit through the meter. This will of course give you the greatest current reading you can get from your source: the meter in the amps range is a _very_ low impedance "load" on the source and the true voltage (unless regulated) will drop.  This is not the way power output is measured.

But I have exchanged notes with Lasersaber and he confirms that he did it this way deliberately to see what the short-circuit current was capable of reaching with his motor. He's putting a note in the Description of the video to clear up any confusion. Of course he is smart enough not to use such readings as a claim of "power output" and later on he'll be providing proper power readings: Voltage meter (high impedance) in parallel across a load, and Current meter (very low impedance) in series with the load, simultaneous readings from two meters.

The very best current meters have _zero_ resistance or as close to it as possible. If you take apart a cheapo DMM you may see the current-viewing shunt: A piece of heavy copper wire. These meters measure current by looking at the voltage drop across this very low resistance shunt and displaying the result as a current. Even analog, moving-coil panel meters will usually measure current in a similar fashion: they will have a shunt -- a veritable short-circuit -- between the meter terminals that handles most of the current while the meter movement itself only gets a small part of the current. This is done so that the "insertion loss" of having the meter in the circuit is small.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 05, 2014, 06:14:07 PM
Hi TK,

On "the usual 4" inputs I mean 1)the High current, 2)the mA, 3)the Common and 4)the Volt Ohm etc inputs.
I have a FLuke 87 which should be similar to your Fluke 83, with 4 inputs.
In the cheapo category there are types also with 4 inputs like this here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-AC-DC-Digital-Voltmeter-Multimeter-Ammeter-OHM-Auto-Voltage-Current-Tester-/161369748719?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item259262f4ef (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-AC-DC-Digital-Voltmeter-Multimeter-Ammeter-OHM-Auto-Voltage-Current-Tester-/161369748719?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item259262f4ef) 

You are correct there are many DMMs which have only 3 inputs and probably there are many types with 3 inputs vs the 4 ones. In my enviroment, when I was active, the 4 input DMMs ruled, though we had several types with 3 inputs too.

I agree, the point is how the meter is connected to the circuit when V or I measurements are done and I forgot about this completely when answered, very sorry for this, I must have had a 'short circuit'.    :( :o

Thanks for your kind answer.

Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 06, 2014, 02:02:12 AM
You're welcome and thank you for the response. I'm always kind... just not always to everybody.  :P

Meanwhile, back at the lab...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGmbN1CzmsQ
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Lakes on December 06, 2014, 10:16:28 AM
Hmm... Attach piezos to soles of shoes, add led... night runners?? :)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 06, 2014, 10:19:42 AM
Sounds like a good plan!

Also might make a good bass lure: propeller from water drag making vibration, driving piezo, lighting LED, no battery required!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ALVARO_CS on December 06, 2014, 07:00:09 PM
Hi Hoptoad
Have you re-loaded anywhere that Adams motor page you had long ago ?
wish to have another look at it (I learned a lot from it,thanks)
cheers
Alvaro
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 06, 2014, 07:47:31 PM
Hi Alvaro,

See it here:

http://overunity.com/14669/simple-adams-motor-experiments-hoptoad/msg403983/#msg403983 

Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ALVARO_CS on December 07, 2014, 12:24:55 AM
many thanks Gyula ;)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 10, 2014, 04:57:43 AM

Hi All,

Just a few more days to complete the 2014 pulse motor build off.

This is my update on my radial pulse engine test run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 10, 2014, 05:05:18 AM
Hi All,

Just a few more days to complete the 2014 pulse motor build off.

This is my update on my radial pulse engine test run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxWJrjjRVY)

Tom
It looks great.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 10, 2014, 05:25:36 AM
Hi Mark,

I needed more computer power like arduino mega, ran out of pin ports to do more controls.

This is my basic specs.

Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v@ 40ma (micro controllers)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed control
2 micro controllers for lcd and motor control (arduino base atmega 328 16mhz 32k)
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 10, 2014, 05:37:50 AM
I hate it when  I come up short on pins.  One way around that if the timing isn't critical is to use an I2C I/O expander.  Otherwise just a chip with more I/O will do. 

I think your build shows a lot of creativity and you made it work the way you wanted, so my hat is off to you.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 13, 2014, 01:59:17 AM
PMBO 2014 - Second Entry,
This is my second entry just in case the first one gets disqualified since i'm being lazy and running the DC motor with a PWM...lol...^^
At the 2.29 min mark it sound like i said "max of 200ma" but i said "max to 100ma" but since i talk funny it sounded like 200ma...lol
At the end of video are 3 pictures...;-)
Good luck everyone and remember to have fun...having fun and learning at the same time is of much more importance than to win...^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=autinZjf_l8&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=1
Once again TJ,another nice build.
Hope you post it on IAEC ;)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 13, 2014, 03:11:20 AM
PMBO 2014 - Second Entry,
This is my second entry just in case the first one gets disqualified since i'm being lazy and running the DC motor with a PWM...lol...^^
At the 2.29 min mark it sound like i said "max of 200ma" but i said "max to 100ma" but since i talk funny it sounded like 200ma...lol
At the end of video are 3 pictures...;-)
Good luck everyone and remember to have fun...having fun and learning at the same time is of much more importance than to win...^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=autinZjf_l8&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=1
The machining is so good that until the end it is hard to see that it is rotating.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 13, 2014, 03:55:34 AM
Hi there bro and thanks,
How you been lately, do you have any time at hand to build something since you have absurd working week hours... :'(
I haven't post it on IAEC since i don't have any login info from there anymore... :o
Have a great weekend mate and before you know you're off to that nice Island with your lady...not long more to go... 8)
Cheers
Today is my first day home in 5 days. Did an 82 hour week this week,and feeling ::) lol. But just went down to the hardware shop,and bought some supplies to start my build. The first idea is canned,as the stator core is no good for the project. So now im going to build a large electric pulse hit and miss motor--all MDF to lol.
Anyway-im off to the work shop-time is short.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 13, 2014, 12:13:28 PM
PMBO 2014 - Second Entry,
This is my second entry just in case the first one gets disqualified since i'm being lazy and running the DC motor with a PWM...lol...^^
At the 2.29 min mark it sound like i said "max of 200ma" but i said "max to 100ma" but since i talk funny it sounded like 200ma...lol
At the end of video are 3 pictures...;-)
Good luck everyone and remember to have fun...having fun and learning at the same time is of much more importance than to win...^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=autinZjf_l8&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=autinZjf_l8&list=UUNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=1)

Hi Mister Caribbean Roots,

Very nice and robust setup! Would you mind answering some questions? ( If you do not wish to answer, I understand   8) )

1) I edited a snapshot taken from your video to symbolize the position of a possible ferromagnetic core inside your generator coils: do you use 12 such short cores for the 12 coils?

2) Have you estimated your output power? whether it is higher than approximately 3 Watts?

3) Did you find in your practice that the tangential position for the output coils (as you did) with respect to the rotor gives less drag than the (usual) radial position?

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: verpies on December 13, 2014, 02:40:25 PM
This might help some experimenters who are pulsing inductors (e.g. motor windings) and later are trying to recover energy from them.

When a rectangular pulse transitioning abruptly from 0 to some voltage V is applied to a resistor in series with an inductor (e.g. a coil) by closing the switch in the diagram below, then the following sequence of events happens:
1) At the beginning (point A) no energy and no current is flowing (the switch is open).
2) Shortly after the rising edge of the stimulating pulse (after the switch closes), the current increases linearly
3) Some of the energy of the pulse is converted into the magnetic field in the inductor and some energy is dissipated in the resistance as heat. At this point the energy flows into the inductor faster than it is dissipated by the resistor.
4) After the time equal to 0.69 Tau (point B) the energy flow (a.k.a. power) into the inductor reaches its peak and starts decreasing afterwards, eventually reaching zero power and magnetic energy equal to ½*L*(V/R)2, at Tau >> 5
5) However the current through the resistor keeps increasing non-linearly but monotonically and asymptotically up to the V/R limit and the energy flow (a.k.a power), dissipated as heat in the resistor, increases similarly up to the V2/R limit.
6) After time equal to 1.15 Tau (point C), the magnetic energy accumulated in the inductor reaches the break even point with the total energy dissipated as heat in the resistor up to that point in time. Continuing beyond point C guarantees that more energy is dissipated as heat in the resistor than stored as the magnetic field of the inductor.
7) After a very long time the current reaches the V/R limit and the magnetic energy stored in the inductor reaches ½*L*(V/R)2 limit but the energy dissipated in the resistor increases ad infinitum at the rate (a.k.a. power) equal to V2/R.

For transformers, putting a load on the secondary winding (e.g. shorting it) has the same effect as decreasing the inductance of the primary winding (L). As a result of this, the Tau decreases and the current in the primary rises faster with time.


THE POINT:
If a constant and linear inductor is charged and later discharged at the same rate, then from efficiency point of view, it makes no sense to charge it longer than 0.5757 Tau (½ of the time C, see pt.6), because if you do, then the energy dissipated in the resistance will be higher than the energy recovered from the inductor during its discharge. 
For realistic good recovery efficiency from the above inductor, the charging time should be less than ⅛Tau.



LEGEND:
Tau = L/R (a time constant)
V = The high level voltage of the stimulating rectangular pulse.
ETOT = Total energy delivered by the supply to the series RL circuit.
EL = Energy stored in the inductor as magnetic field
ER = Energy dissipated in the resistance as heat
PL = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) flowing into the inductor
PR = Instantaneous Power (energy flow) dissipation in the resistance
iL = The current flowing through the inductor (and resistor)
       ( I can post the relevant time-domain equations on request )
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: verpies on December 13, 2014, 02:41:55 PM
In pulse motors there is an additional significant phenomenon that needs to be accounted for.

For simplicity, let's consider an empty air-coil (solenoid) possessing some inductance LMIN.
1) This empty air coil is first energized with current (iMAX) from some power supply.
2) For simplicity of analysis, the charging of the coil's current is stopped at iMAX, long before the point C (http://overunity.com/15095/pulse-motor-build-off-time/msg427460/#msg427460) on the current waveform is reached and the coil is shorted and a movable soft ferromagnetic element (nonconductive) is introduced a distance away from the coil.
3) Now the coil attracts the movable ferromagnetic element towards itself, because current keeps circulating in the coil and magnetic field B-gradient is generated by it.
4) As the ferromagnetic element approaches, the inductance of the coil increases and in response to that, the current flowing through its winding decreases.
5) When the ferromagnetic element becomes attracted all the way inside the coil, its inductance reaches maximum (LMAX) and it current falls to minimum (iMIN).  This would happen even in a superconducting coil devoid of resistance.
6) The coil is opened and all the energy circulating in it (½LMAX*iMIN2) is quickly discharged into a capacitor.
7) The movable ferromagnetic element continues to move away from the coil by inertia and unimpeded by attraction from the deenergized coil.

DISCUSSION
The decrease of current described in pt.4 will be manifested on the scope as flattening of the pulses' tops. This flattening can be confused with reaching the V/R limit of the winding.  To distinguish them, a dry run should be made first with the movable ferromagnetic element absent.  The results of the dry run can be later subtracted out.

Furthermore, when the coil is discharged into capacitor in pt.6, it should be noted that the smaller this capacitor is the faster the energy in the coil will be discharged into it.  The downside of a small capacitor is that the voltage which it becomes charged to, is large.
In other words, the smaller the capacitor - the faster the coil's discharge but the higher the capacitor's final voltage because ½LMAX*iMIN2 = ½C*V2, and this transforms to V = iMIN*SQRT(LMAX / C)
Also note, that this capacitor and the winding form an LCR circuit that wants to oscillate at the frequency equal to 1/(2π*SQRT(C*LMAX)). 
If the goal is to transfer all of the energy from the coil to the capacitor, then this oscillation should be interrupted after ¼ of the cycle, when the current in the coil is zero and the voltage in the capacitor is at its maximum. The energy stored in this capacitor can be transferred back into the power supply or used to energize the coil in the next motor cycle.

Once all of the coil's energy is transferred into the capacitor, the resistance of the winding and the remaining circuit, cannot keep wasting it as heat and you can relax while preparing for the next cycle of your motor.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 13, 2014, 03:56:32 PM


Hi All,

Just about done, boy this is a pulse engine/motor.


Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v (micro controller)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed control
1 micro controller arduino 2560 mega
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 13, 2014, 04:39:05 PM

Hi All,

Just about done, boy this is a pulse engine/motor.


Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v (micro controller)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed control
1 micro controller arduino 2560 mega
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils
Tommey it looks good.  I have a couple of questions:

How did you measure the input current and the stall load?  A stall load should be a torque.  The mechanical power is zero because at stall there is no motion.  The peak output power would be found by progressively loading the unit more and more and finding where the product of torque and speed is the greatest.  If the relations were linear then it would be 0.25*wNO LOAD*TSTALL.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 13, 2014, 05:09:04 PM
Hi Mark,

I only gave the true load when the motor is lockd up as the coil was on, in other words 12v/2.567 ohms would give me a stall load of 4.68a or 56w.

As far as working load, I'm still working on that when I run a generator for output reading.

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 13, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
Hi MCR,

My question is where are the meters for output?

You are showing input of power, but not the true input from power supply. PWM running coils will only show false readings in your volt/amp meters.

If you want real input of power you must use a cap and a resistor on input power before going through the pwm. The meter must show volt/amps at the load cap/res and then connect it to your motor and read it again.

Also you are not showing output on your meters, will you do real input vs output of power?

 :-\
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 13, 2014, 08:28:39 PM
It's funny when builder claim low power input and when question  they react :'(

Why even show any meter input/output in the first place, it's like a magic trick with out any question... :o

I believe if anyone want to show meters, they need to show both sides of input vs output or else some people may think they have OU ;D

This build off is showing some tricks for kids ;D
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 13, 2014, 08:36:59 PM
Hi all,

This is my understanding of how a real pulse motor should work 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol60QtAnxf0

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 02:38:50 AM
It's looking good.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 06:18:55 AM
It's even more funny how some peeps react when they build a PM for a PMBO saying that the way they build their PM is the only way to build one and even write about it in that manner on many forums...lol ::)
LOL...if you can't get your PM to run like mine do on that kinda input than you still have a long way to go... ;)

That's your believe thinking that people need to show meters on both sides of the PM or show anything for that matter..no they don't...it's their desicion to do so or not... ;) :P

Me doing magic tricks...lol...think i need to invite Stefan to see this one first hand...good thing you haven't seen my massive PM running at nano input some time ago...lol... ;D :o :P

Have fun... ;D
If someone knows what they are doing and keep the mechanical losses down, then sustaining the motor at speed can take very little input power.  Then it is just a matter of how fast they want to accelerate up to speed, or alternatively how much power they want to limit themselves to during the acceleration ramp.

About five years ago there was a scam artist by the name of Pete Sumaruck who got lots of attention for his "zero amp" motor "technology".  What he had done was modify an off the shelf AC motor controller's acceleration ramp to a very slow rate.  His demonstration was to hook up several sizeable AC motors using small gauge wires, and of course operate them without any loads.  I think Stephen Greer's group ended up giving money before the scam fell apart.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 14, 2014, 07:32:18 AM
Hi all,

This is my understanding of how a real pulse motor should work 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol60QtAnxf0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol60QtAnxf0)

Tom

Very impressive looking Tommy.  I think the Las Vegas bookies have you marked as the winner.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 14, 2014, 01:00:41 PM
....
So i do think that this one have some possibilities...meaning that if the core and the coils are say "tuned together" you can have more output and maybe have Lenz assist you instead of working against you...
With tuned i mean...have more eddy currents coming to the party and/or more capacitance in the coil...so many posibilities here and that's a good thing... :o 8) ;)
....

Hi Mister Caribbean Roots,

Thanks for your kind answers, I appreciate them.

Re on the several iron rods bent and taped tight for the ring core: Hopefully you used 'thin' rods and you isolated each rod from one other to minimize eddy current.   :-\
IF you do not happen to have thin rods for your next build, try to use garden wire instead which are PVC or enamel insulated and made of iron and thin enough like OD 0.4 to 0.6 mm or so, and just form the ring diameter you need by looping the insulated iron wires.  I know it may take quite a long piece of garden wire to buy and form the ring core with a decent thickness to fill up the ID of the coils but it may not be so expensive at hardware florist shops, Chinese merchants bring over also such wires for florists.
Also another possibility is to use welding roads as are used in Bedini pulse motors for the coil core, these should also be isolated from each other by painting them first. There is a recommended type of rod they use, I cannot recall it at the moment but it can be searched easily. Though these are more rigid to bend than the PVC isolated iron wires having an OD < 1mm, they may be worth using too for the much less eddy loss what thicker iron rods with OD > 4mm or higher may manifest.  But you may know all this...  8)

Okay on the LED lamps, I agree with all what you wrote, including the DC-AC issues. Driving individual LEDs by AC can be especially misleading because current can flow in the forward direction to get light at peak voltages exceeding the forward voltage threshold of the diodes, rendering LEDs a deceptive nonlinear load which actually 'eats' output during ,say, 25-30% of an AC cycle only...  :o ???

Yes, I meant on 'tangential' as you actually placed the coils, a good representation for this is shown by Naudin on the left hand side part of this picture versus the normal coil position on the left, here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif (http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/magconfig.gif)   from his site: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm)  probably you have seen these. (By the way, the Mini-Romag generator is an interesting setup in itself, it is a pity nobody turns more attention to it.  ::) :o   )

Also, John Bedini showed a pulse motor with a single big coil also placed 'tangentially' to the rotor magnets, he coined the 'zero force motor' name for that, see this video as he himself demonstrated it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc)
He claimed in the video the setup had no bemf, no Lenz effect and indeed at the input (small) current level involved, together with the huge coil size versus the relatively small inducing rotor magnets this sounds correct.  I am sure the input current would go up when the motor shaft were to be loaded mechanically, that would be a good test to show how Lenz-less the setup is.   :D

You mentioned 'tuning' in connection with eddy currents as a possible advantage if I undertood you correctly, this seems to be the only issue I have to ask how you mean.  Because I think that if there is any eddy current loss inherent in the ferromagnetic core of a motor or/and generator setup and when this loss becomes less when the generator is loaded (and as a consequnce the prime mover input power reduces and overall RPM increases),  THEN you simply 'tune out' the eddy current loss present in the core by the effect of the load.  I believe if there is such 'tuning out' benefit in setups with air core coils to get similar phenomena, that would be something really useful.  8)   I think any eddy current loss in a ferromagnetic core is unwanted, no need to build-it-in in advance and then trying to 'tune it out' to simply bring back a certain part of the input power you are already paying when the setup runs unloaded.   ::)

Thanks for your time again.

Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 14, 2014, 04:38:25 PM
MCR,

One thing is clear to me is that you want it your way no, matter what.

Your comments on low power PM is like a the wind blowing smoke, it's only when you pull power from your so called efficient pm that really matters :o

You're right, you don't have to show any input or output of power, so why even think you can try to fool other with this clown act of showing super low input of power in the first place?

You're comment on RWG research asking others how to use hall effects just show me you know very little about electronics.

You're like a car salesmen, adding more pulse motors on RWG forum hoping to win a prize, when the last few ones did not work :o

I have better things to do then to add any more comments to you, good luck, and may the best integrity person wins!

 ;D
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 14, 2014, 05:12:00 PM
Gyula:

Quote
Also, John Bedini showed a pulse motor with a single big coil also placed 'tangentially' to the rotor magnets, he coined the 'zero force motor' name for that, see this video as he himself demonstrated it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpDMMcNQxc)
He claimed in the video the setup had no bemf, no Lenz effect and indeed at the input (small) current level involved, together with the huge coil size versus the relatively small inducing rotor magnets this sounds correct.  I am sure the input current would go up when the motor shaft were to be loaded mechanically, that would be a good test to show how Lenz-less the setup is.

I find it really hard to find any good in John Bedini.  I remember that clip also.  Of course that motor doesn't act any differently than any other pulse motor on a fundamental level.  If he was a man of integrity he would actually explain how it works.  Of course you get the phony term "radiant energy" mentioned also.  All that you would have to do to bust all of that would be to connect a scope to the disconnected drive coil, and then take your hand and give the rotor a good spin.  Then of course you would see an AC waveform on the drive coil output showing that it can act in the other direction, like a generator.  If you can see the tell-tale sign of a generator, then you go back in the forward direction and voila you have a motor.

He shows a "no current" reading on an analog ammeter with a full scale range of 5 AMPERES.  What a joke.

It's just a flimflam act.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 09:33:04 PM
It's even more funny how some peeps react when they build a PM for a PMBO saying that the way they build their PM is the only way to build one and even write about it in that manner on many forums...lol ::)
LOL...if you can't get your PM to run like mine do on that kinda input than you still have a long way to go... ;)

That's your believe thinking that people need to show meters on both sides of the PM or show anything for that matter..no they don't...it's their desicion to do so or not... ;) :P

Me doing magic tricks...lol...think i need to invite Stefan to see this one first hand...good thing you haven't seen my massive PM running at nano input some time ago...lol... ;D :o :P

Have fun... ;D

But, can you run your motor from an Earth Battery?  I did this 5.5 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY)


Bill
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 14, 2014, 09:51:33 PM
MCR,

One thing is clear to me is that you want it your way no, matter what.

Your comments on low power PM is like a the wind blowing smoke, it's only when you pull power from your so called efficient pm that really matters :o

You're right, you don't have to show any input or output of power, so why even think you can try to fool other with this clown act of showing super low input of power in the first place?

You're comment on RWG research asking others how to use hall effects just show me you know very little about electronics.

You're like a car salesmen, adding more pulse motors on RWG forum hoping to win a prize, when the last few ones did not work :o

I have better things to do then to add any more comments to you, good luck, and may the best integrity person wins!

 ;D

Tommey, I can't disagree with you here.   On the other thread there was a discussion about the false concept of the "delayed Lenz effect" and then a discussion about the issues that need to be understood when you are trying to understand the input power consumption of a pulse motor.  It was sometimes technical and very informative.  Verpies contributed some very solid technical information along these lines just the other day in this thread.

Then we get a clown comment like this:

Quote
So true, sorry about my part...it's only distraction that is getting no where... (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif))
Another thread won't do any good if you can't keep the distraction out of it... (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/sad.gif (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/sad.gif))

Ho ho ho.... It's all just "distraction" and gets "no where."   Ho ho ho.... I would rather crank out another pulse motor and have a beer.  Measurements shmeasurements, who needs that distraction?

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 14, 2014, 10:59:48 PM
Core effect pulse motors are very different from the "ordinary" electromagnetic attraction-repulsion type of PMs that seem to be the only kind anyone is talking about.
I posted this video of my Orbette 2.0 in another thread but maybe it belongs here.

The core effect motor works NOT by electromagnets attracting or repelling rotor magnets. It works by changing the permeability of the toroidal core by driving it to saturation with applied current. This _reduces_ the attraction of external magnets to the core -- either polarity, either current direction. It is _not_ an effect of direct electromagnetic attraction or repulsion.

This allows one to accomplish several things, for example the core effect motor coil position can be "tuned" to produce very little or no "generator effect", while not affecting the ability of the core to attract, or reduce attraction to, the rotor magnets.  This seems to be what you are talking about when you say "no Lenz effect".

Note that with a well-constructed _toroidal_ wound core, there is very little leakage of the electromagnetic field outside the core. Note also that the core effect does _not_ depend on either rotor magnet polarity or current polarity in the coil, since it is _not_ working by electromagnetic repulsion or attraction. You can use a DPDT switch to change the polarity of the current in a core effect motor and it will not affect the running at all. Of course there will always be some leakage, and stray fields from supply wiring, etc, so the "not at all" part is an ideal situation, but it is clear that the core effect motor does not behave anything like the ordinary electromagnetic attraction/repulsion type of pulse motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rMGmskqXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90rMGmskqXQ)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBS3tDyZEs8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBS3tDyZEs8)



If anyone is still wondering about Hall sensors, here are a couple of videos that may be helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GazsfQLu38 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GazsfQLu38)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl8Ke62r468 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl8Ke62r468)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 15, 2014, 01:51:04 AM
Hi All,

This is my radial pulse motor generator entry.
 3 minutes is short time to talk about this motor, but they are the rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWRBHvb6mM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bWRBHvb6mM)

Spec:
Radial Pulse Engine/motor/generator
Input 12v@3a max (motor input), stall load 56w
Input 9v@ 40ma (micro controllers)
8 coils 24 gauge at 100 ft each (2.567ohms)
PWM speed controller
1 Arduino 2560 mega
ECM reading/controls
Rotational 5 degree steps (72 steps per complete rotation)
Control firing power stoke on each piston coil 0deg(TDC) to 180deg(BDC)
8 led piston firing lights
RPM reading (0- 3600)
Output:
BEMF collector from 8 coils


Good luck to everyone, some real good builds out there :cheerleader:
TLR
 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 15, 2014, 02:44:42 AM
Tommy:

Beautiful build man, best of luck to you.  You know,with the lights out, the front view looks like a flux capacitor.

Bill
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Lakes on December 15, 2014, 09:31:05 AM
Very impressive build Tommy, and the addition of leds make a great display.

Good luck in the contest!
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 15, 2014, 10:56:39 AM
It's a nice build Tommey.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 15, 2014, 01:33:17 PM
Thanks all,

It's interesting the pulse motor build off is just the same old builds like last year, it's all most like spinning in circles.

I believe I added a twist to this year of PMBO,  I also learn a few things also...

I hope I was one of the 3 winners this year, I know I put in the time.

Tom 8)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Dave45 on December 15, 2014, 05:22:05 PM
Awesome Tom you got my vote  ;)

@Tinman
Thought you might be interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM0ER3N4Fy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM0ER3N4Fy0)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 15, 2014, 06:57:14 PM
Hi All,

This is a complete build of this radial pulse engine from the start x8 the speed, no I'm that fast of a builder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U36pLafn_M8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U36pLafn_M8)

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 16, 2014, 02:47:19 AM
   






















                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      .
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 16, 2014, 02:47:56 AM
Well heaven forbid if some pulse motor builders actually want to learn something to better their craft so that they can make better pulse motors.  The pursuit of knowledge is not something to be ashamed of and there should never be peer pressure to stay the same and not think about new ideas and learning new things.  When MCR says it's a "distraction" he is just reinforcing the notion that it's "bad" to put your brain in gear and on another level it's also just a stupid mind game.

For example, you can't say "my motor is efficient" without actually stating what you mean when you say that.  It you don't define what you are talking about then it's a meaningless statement.  There is no "delayed Lenz effect" and there is no such thing as "speed under load."  If you keep on repeating these false ideas then you don't advance and you remain in a rut.  These pulse motor issues have been covered many times and they were recently covered in detail on another thread.  Don't listen to clown comments that try to put good knowledge like this down by calling it a "distraction."  Pulse motors are a neat way to learn about pulse circuits and by extension about electronics in general.  Some people can't really handle that, they think that they can build pulse motors by "listening and feeling" but there is a lot more to it than that.  They want to discourage you from learning because the more you learn the further behind they will get.

I suggested some ideas for some innovative pulse motor architectures that some people might want to try for next year's pulse motor build off.  I also suggested that next year's PMBO actually have some kind of design goal in order to up the ante and make the competition more interesting.

When somebody tries to teach you something so you can challenge yourself to do better and continue learning that's a good thing.  Don't listen to people that try to put that down or be dismissive of things like this.  They have another motivation for doing this which should be pretty clear if you think about it.

Anybody that has any questions or thoughts about pulse motors or how the basic electronics work are encouraged to ask those questions.  There are some knowledgeable people around here that will be happy to see if they can answer your questions and help you out.  Do not ever in your life be ashamed of learning.  Don't succumb to foolish counter-productive peer pressure that reinforces bad ideas or wants to directly or indirectly discourage you from learning something new to better yourself.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 16, 2014, 02:49:45 AM
Here are the final entries


  http://rwgresearch.com/events/pulse-motor-build-off-2014/ (http://rwgresearch.com/events/pulse-motor-build-off-2014/)


I would hate to have to judge this ........


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 16, 2014, 04:36:21 AM
MCR,

 You're saying that your pulse motor is so efficient, yet you can't even show basic input vs output of power.

I have seen many types of your kind, many of them play around with PLC to change frequency while claiming more efficient running performance. But when tested under real conditions they fail big time.

You have said it in the past that you don't have to show any meters, yet you would toy around like a child with candy and say,"See my meters" :P

It's time to just call you out as I see it, PROVE IT! ;)

My simple pulse motor, yeah simple to me 8)
I used a single 12v battery, no wires running down the wall as your video shows.
I show true BEMF output, not lights coming from a unknown source.
I also did load test from the battery and can say it's around 1-3 amps from the main power source, not meter connected from where ever.

Clearly you got to much to say and very little to back up your words. :o

Anyone can spin a wheel, does not matter how much energy you put in, it's what you get out that really matters.

Most likely those that put in more watts will produce greater output then those that put in less. ;D

I got two last word for you, PROVE IT!

 :o

TOM
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 16, 2014, 09:38:01 AM
Here are the final entries


  http://rwgresearch.com/events/pulse-motor-build-off-2014/ (http://rwgresearch.com/events/pulse-motor-build-off-2014/)


I would hate to have to judge this ........


thx
Chet
There is a lot of creative work on display.  Tommey's is still my favorite followed by the second slayer build that throws off sparks.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 16, 2014, 05:11:14 PM

@Tinman
Thought you might be interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM0ER3N4Fy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM0ER3N4Fy0)
Thanks Dave.
This is the reason i hunt for the 100 or 80 series motors,as you dont have to do any rewireing,as there already low voltage motors. If you can get a 40 series motor,then they will produce 240 voltas at about 180rpm-->no need for any batteries or inverters then ;).
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 16, 2014, 05:20:37 PM
MCR,

 You're saying that your pulse motor is so efficient, yet you can't even show basic input vs output of power.

I have seen many types of your kind, many of them play around with PLC to change frequency while claiming more efficient running performance. But when tested under real conditions they fail big time.

You have said it in the past that you don't have to show any meters, yet you would toy around like a child with candy and say,"See my meters" :P

It's time to just call you out as I see it, PROVE IT! ;)

My simple pulse motor, yeah simple to me 8)
I used a single 12v battery, no wires running down the wall as your video shows.
I show true BEMF output, not lights coming from a unknown source.
I also did load test from the battery and can say it's around 1-3 amps from the main power source, not meter connected from where ever.

Clearly you got to much to say and very little to back up your words. :o

Anyone can spin a wheel, does not matter how much energy you put in, it's what you get out that really matters.

Most likely those that put in more watts will produce greater output then those that put in less. ;D

I got two last word for you, PROVE IT!

 :o

TOM

I have known MCR for many years Tom,and you'd be hard pressed to get close to the efficiency of his machines-and his workmanship is second to none. He has built many many machines ,and shown very accurate P/in P/out meassurements,so he has a good idea as to what each of his machines are doing.

Yours is a good build for sure,and beats mine hand's down-as i just never had the time avaliable to finish it due to working hours.But seems quite hungry on power,for little P/out from the backEMF. But im guessing that it has quite a bit or torque-will you be doing any torque test on it ?.

Good job from all that entered ;)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Dave45 on December 16, 2014, 06:31:14 PM
@All - Really great builds
awesome really enjoyed watching

Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 16, 2014, 10:16:48 PM
MCR,

NPD is what you have been doing from the beginning on this forum!

This pulse motor build off is kids games to me, the only reason I join is because some people wanted to see me back up my comments from the past, other then that it was fun.

This is nothing more then a show and tell, the reason I call you out is your false reading as you stated from the beginning and telling everyone else they are distractions.

You may have a few watching your back, but I know many question you're claims from the beginning.

People like you want to believe they have the answer, like someone smoking crack thinking they can fly.

You have been making claims of how efficient your pulse motor is, yet when someone challenge you to shut up with the BS and prove it, you hide like a rat in a hole.

By the way, I could do much better then anyone thinks. That's why for now on I will be doing PMBO every year so you guys will have to work very hard to out do me :o

Good Luck!
 8)











Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 17, 2014, 08:35:55 AM
Hey, I thought this was supposed to be fun and educational! But I see it's turning into a testosterone contest. 

Heck, I couldn't even enter any of my amazing, scientifically groundbreaking PMs because I couldn't register on Russ's forum. So I'm just moving on, continuing to do what I do, whatever that is. (Not that any of my recent builds are anywhere near as neat as Tommey's or MCR's.)

Did anyone at all enter anything other than an electromagnetic attraction or repulsion pulse motor? No core effect motors?


Here, laugh along with me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHLbQ6zw92w
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 17, 2014, 10:56:38 AM
 next year I think we should ask Russ To add a  a steel cage match to the event ,Spice things up a bit  :o


you seem to have created a space time Vortex or a wee black hole??
It disappeared........


very cool


 thanks


Chet




Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 17, 2014, 11:17:33 AM
next year I think we should ask Russ To add a  a steel cage match to the event ,Spice things up a bit  :o


you seem to have created a space time Vortex or a wee black hole??
It disappeared........


very cool


 thanks


Chet
The RGrieseDome:  Two Pulse Motors Enter, One Pulse Motor Leaves.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLeeReed on December 17, 2014, 12:44:10 PM
Hi All,

I agree this got dirty, but someone wanted to through mud at the beginning.

I am going to Florida for a week where I can relax and enjoy the weather, sorry if I over react like a real man that don't put up with crap.

I think next year should be better rules where one entry per person.

Tom :o





Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 17, 2014, 01:01:58 PM

Real Men??
then we shall have Festivus......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS7-jcsB_WQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS7-jcsB_WQ)


Tom
Have a safe trip to the sunny and warm Southland,and a Merry Christmas .
and a safe and happy Holiday to all.


thx

Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 17, 2014, 09:33:38 PM
Hey, I thought this was supposed to be fun and educational! But I see it's turning into a testosterone contest. 

Heck, I couldn't even enter any of my amazing, scientifically groundbreaking PMs because I couldn't register on Russ's forum. So I'm just moving on, continuing to do what I do, whatever that is. (Not that any of my recent builds are anywhere near as neat as Tommey's or MCR's.)

Did anyone at all enter anything other than an electromagnetic attraction or repulsion pulse motor? No core effect motors?


Here, laugh along with me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHLbQ6zw92w
@TK

TK-i would love to see a third coil wound around the center of your containment tube(between the two drive coils),and see what the output looks like on a scope. I think that would be one messed up wave form of no particular pattern lol.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2014, 08:02:16 PM
Here is another idea for an innovative pulse motor.  Perhaps TK is listening or someone else...   You need to have some electronics and build skills to get this one right.

I will call this pulse motor the "Whacker-Puller."

What you want to do is overcome the slow rise in the current for the drive coil.  So, we know that at TDC the toque from the drive coil is zero.  Let's assume that the maximum torque is at +5 degrees.  So what we want to do is have an "instant on" coil that whacks the rotor magnets when they are at let's say +4 degrees.

You do this with two coils in series in a unique architecture, Coil A and Coil B.  Coil A will be in the regular position for the drive coil.   Coil B will be positioned at let's say +20 degrees.  Coil A will work in repulsion mode, and Coil B will work in attraction mode.

The MOSFET or transistor starts to energize Coil B ONLY, at say -5 degrees.   When the rotor magnet hits +4 degrees, there is current flowing through Coil B, and no current flowing through Coil A.

At +4 degrees, the transistor switches off, and Coil B then conducts current into Coil A.  The current in Coil A rises nearly instantaneously, hence the rotor magnet is "whacked" with the repulsion force from Coil A.

Once the transistor switches off, Coil A and Coil B will have the same amount of current flow, because they are in series.

As the rotor magnet approaches +20 degrees, it is approaching Coil B.  Since current is flowing through Coil B, you have Coil B attract the oncoming rotor magnet.

So as you can see, you have two coils, where Coil B is "pre-charged" while the rotor magnet approaches.  Then Coil B discharges through Coil A, so that you you get an instantaneous "whack" from Coil A and after that you get a pull from Coil B.

One critical thing is that you have to stop all current flow through both coils after the rotor magnet passes TDC for Coil B.  That is a challenge but should be doable.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2014, 08:32:58 PM
In my experience, the rise times of current in reasonable pulse motor drive coils is so fast compared to the rotor's rotation that it is for all intents and purposes instantaneous. You can look at the video I posted some while back where I'm showing the Orbette 2.0 toroidal coils applied voltage and current traces on the LeCroy DSO for an example. The current risetime is so fast that the pulse looks nice and square, with the usual overshoots and rings. I doubt if there is as much as one degree of rotor rotation from the "instant" the current is applied, to the time of full current flow, and that's with inductors with highly permeable cores, too. There is a large disparity between the behaviour of mechanical systems and that of electronics! What we consider slow and measurable rise times in pulsed inductors is in practice "instantaneous" when applied to a mechanically moving part with palpable mass. (Tiny reed switches are another story, as we know; a carefully designed mercury wetted reed switch can move pretty darn fast.)

It's a neat idea though. Maybe some pulse motor builder will try it. But it is still an ordinary electromagnetic repulsion-attraction configuration. I still think that designs using the "core effect" are more interesting since they do not rely on electromagnetic attraction/repulsion at all, and they are as rare as hen's teeth.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2014, 08:51:57 PM
TK:

It's so rare that someone actually puts a current sensing resistor on a pulse motor drive coil that I am not even sure if the rise time is an issue or not.

But that's neither here nor there.  The point is to do something different than the same old boring standard pulse motor architecture.  It poses challenges in design and understanding what is going on, and challenges the builder to actually use their scope to help in the design and verification.  It uses the concept of one coil producing an "instant on" in a second coil.

Even through the design is somewhat complicated, this design or the "Pull-Push" design I proposed before will probably have a decent chance in giving you more RPM per input watt of power compared to a "dumb" traditional design.  Plus you have to work out how to do the triggering, which I haven't touched on.  Just getting the triggering right would be a challenge.

Just something new for the sake of being new.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 18, 2014, 09:39:50 PM
I agree, something different is all good in the pulse motor realm. And with microprocessors, the triggering wouldn't be all that hard to arrange. I used a 4000 line rotary digital encoder on the Orbette 2.0 during the power dissipation measurements, so timing could be adjusted to the tenth of a degree of rotor rotation using that as position input to the microprocessor.

I thought of another practical example, though. My overhead levitator, controlled by Arduino, using optical shadow-edge sensing, turns the overhead coil off and on through a switched mosfet controlled by a gate drive signal from the Arduino. The levitated object seems "rock-steady", it doesn't have a chance to fall or rise a visibly perceptible amount between pulses (although the shadow sensing system perceives its slight motions). And that coil is a pretty heavy inductor. It's on a top shelf right now and I don't recall the exact inductance but it's one of the larger coils I've wound, larger than any of my pulse motor coils. I think as long as you are pulsing at audio-range (mechanically feasible)  frequencies with a reasonable-sized coil your rise and fall times will be "practically instantaneous" even though they are actually easily measurable and definitely finite on scopes.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLReed on December 19, 2014, 02:50:34 PM
Hello All,

  Tomorrow is the day of 3 winners, I wonder who will be a in that group?

I am in Florida today with the weather around 75deg, really don't want to return to the cold, but my wife said I have to be home before Christmas....

I will be able to watch the Smart scarecrow show tomorrow at 7pm, if I'm one of the winners I will be able to call in.

Stay warm, and enjoy the show.

Merry Christmas to all, including those that I may not agree with.

Tom
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Lakes on December 19, 2014, 03:18:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDt3u2Ev1cI

Merry Christmas Tommy, drive safe! :)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 20, 2014, 11:11:29 AM
What were the results...??


Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 20, 2014, 05:29:15 PM
What were the results...??


Thx
Chet
They have not been announced yet.  There is supposed to be a SSC show to announce the winners.  It may be tonight, but I don't see any dates published.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 06:47:02 PM
They have not been announced yet.  There is supposed to be a SSC show to announce the winners.  It may be tonight, but I don't see any dates published.

I have not seen anything either.  Maybe they are having a lot of trouble deciding?  (I know I would)  Maybe it might take a while for them to figure out who has won?

It will be good to see the SSC back "on the air" as it were.  I always enjoyed Gary's presentations.

Bill
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLReed on December 21, 2014, 09:37:36 AM
Hi All,

And the winners are?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOcXsR0lxxg

Tom :o
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 21, 2014, 11:46:19 AM
Tommey congratulations.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Dave45 on December 21, 2014, 01:22:00 PM
What a ripoff.
Not to demean anyone's build but come on.
Tommey won hands down
MCR second

I call bull$hit
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: MarkE on December 21, 2014, 05:25:51 PM
I thought Tommey's was the best and the #3 winner the second best. 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
I thought Tommy's was #1 also.  It was a fantastic, complicated and very creative build.

I am sure the judges did have a hard time deciding.

Maybe next year they can decide on certain criteria such as....most complicated, most efficient, or whatever.

Bill
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Dog-One on December 22, 2014, 07:32:30 AM
Tom,

I think the only reason you didn't take the top spot on the podium was because the judges know just how good you are--kind of puts you in a class of your own.  Same thing would happen if they held a HHO powered water cannon build off.   hehe.   Yes, I'm sure you were handicapped many points before they even started wrangling with the numbers.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 22, 2014, 08:30:30 AM
I liked Tommey's build, but I also liked this one from skycollection, which effectively captures back some of the energy put into the spinner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zerOAKWGWDQ
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: tinman on December 22, 2014, 12:24:48 PM
The judges were looking for the new this time round,and although Tom's and many others were great build's,they had been done many times before-->not quite as complicated as Tom's i must say though.

Chet may want to have a close look at what the wining build was going to be powered with(EMP's from HHO explosions) ;)

The PMBO actually started when Russ and myself were going to see which one of us could build the best pulse motor,and then we decided to turn it into a fun comp for every one.

Anyway,well done to all you guy's 8)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TommeyLReed on December 22, 2014, 11:59:51 PM
Hi All,

 I would like to add that this did not seem like a good build off at all, there was no rules and just because a judge love HHO what did that have to do with pulse motor build off?

I know that others did a better build like MCR, I will rethink doing another pulse motor build off due to bias to others and no real rules.

I would rather have rules, then doing something that effect one of the judges opinion like add HHO BS, where does this have to do with pulse motor build off?

So I will recover my lost being 2nd place, but I would hope smart judges next year have rules that make sense, not  a feel good effect running up someone leg because HHO goes boom.

My motor used 12v battery, not ac unlimited power like most of the builds where!

I believe these would be good basic rules for the next build off:

12v DC battery input only.
Input vs Output of watts.
Efficiency.
Mechanical linear or rotational pulse only.

These are rules that will always have the best 3 winners!

Tom






 
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: TinselKoala on December 23, 2014, 12:58:52 AM
While I do think Jeremy's motor was interesting, I have to side with Tom on this one, pretty much. If a "win" is granted because someone says "hey, my motor is planned to use (insert whatever speculative power source here) but I haven't put that part in yet" then anything goes, right? I mean, my linear pulse motor is planned to use Tesla cosmic-ray collectors for power, but I just haven't had time to build that part yet. So how many extra points should that get me, then?  (I couldn't even enter because I couldn't get on to Russ's forum to post an entry anyhow.)

I'm not sure if I would make the restrictions so strict as Tom, but perhaps there should be some limit on input power source(s) and definitely the entry should be judged on what is actually presented, not what is planned for some future modification. And some consideration should be given for using different phenomena, like the Core Effect. I liked Jeremy's entry because of the use of electrostatic propulsion. And Jeremy gave me some suggestions and ideas for my own linear PM that I was playing around with earlier. But power from EMP from HHO implosions? I'll believe in that when I see it. Maybe.

This would have been my entry if I had been able to enter it. I'm not pretending it could have been a real contender but perhaps it shows a thing or two unexpected and maybe would give some people some ideas about circuit strategy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGmbN1CzmsQ
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: ramset on December 23, 2014, 01:06:04 AM
TinMan
Harvesting EMP from the HHO "event"...
I wondered what he was trying to do!!


Now I see why all the interest....


Tom
I agree that rules will help focus the contest,maybe there should also be peoples choice
award??


it is a good thing that Brad and Russ started ,it just needs some adjustment as it grows.
competition has always been a stimulus for advancements in technology.


thx


Chet



Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Jimboot on December 23, 2014, 01:07:18 AM
While I do think Jeremy's motor was interesting, I have to side with Tom on this one, pretty much. If a "win" is granted because someone says "hey, my motor is planned to use (insert whatever speculative power source here) but I haven't put that part in yet" then anything goes, right? I mean, my linear pulse motor is planned to use Tesla cosmic-ray collectors for power, but I just haven't had time to build that part yet. So how many extra points should that get me, then?  (I couldn't even enter because I couldn't get on to Russ's forum to post an entry anyhow.)

I'm not sure if I would make the restrictions so strict as Tom, but perhaps there should be some limit on input power source(s) and definitely the entry should be judged on what is actually presented, not what is planned for some future modification. And some consideration should be given for using different phenomena, like the Core Effect. I liked Jeremy's entry because of the use of electrostatic propulsion. And Jeremy gave me some suggestions and ideas for my own linear PM that I was playing around with earlier. But power from EMP from HHO implosions? I'll believe in that when I see it. Maybe.

This would have been my entry if I had been able to enter it. I'm not pretending it could have been a real contender but perhaps it shows a thing or two unexpected and maybe would give some people some ideas about circuit strategy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGmbN1CzmsQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGmbN1CzmsQ)


I loved your entry TK. It's gotta be tough being a judge. At least the year I won the entries were no where near as sophisticated as this year. They were insanely good. That is the main point of the competition of course, to share ideas, get out and build something. I was blown away by the quality of the entries.
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Jimboot on December 23, 2014, 01:12:35 AM
Yeah I think Tom's should have been in a build off with Russ :)
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: gyulasun on December 26, 2014, 08:23:41 PM
Hi Mister Caribbean Roots,

A bit late in reflecting on you long post (Reply #197, Page 14, http://overunity.com/15095/pulse-motor-build-off-time/msg427802/#msg427802 ) but I have more time now...  8)

Okay on your using the welding rod for the core, this minimizes eddy currents, especially, if the rods are deliberately isolated from each other in the 'circular pile'.

So all in all you seem to be at home with 'such things', as the proverb says: 'Practice makes perfect'.   :)

Keep up the good work and Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year.

Gyula
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2014, 11:04:44 AM
Interesting that Mark Dansie posted on RG that he also thinks that Tommy's entry should have been 1st place.  Nothing against the judges but I also agree with this.  Water under the bridge and all but...hopefully we can all learn from this.

Bill
Title: Re: Pulse motor build off time.
Post by: markdansie on December 27, 2014, 03:19:14 PM
Hi All,

 I would like to add that this did not seem like a good build off at all, there was no rules and just because a judge love HHO what did that have to do with pulse motor build off?

I know that others did a better build like MCR, I will rethink doing another pulse motor build off due to bias to others and no real rules.

I would rather have rules, then doing something that effect one of the judges opinion like add HHO BS, where does this have to do with pulse motor build off?

So I will recover my lost being 2nd place, but I would hope smart judges next year have rules that make sense, not  a feel good effect running up someone leg because HHO goes boom.

My motor used 12v battery, not ac unlimited power like most of the builds where!

I believe these would be good basic rules for the next build off:

12v DC battery input only.
Input vs Output of watts.
Efficiency.
Mechanical linear or rotational pulse only.

These are rules that will always have the best 3 winners!

Tom


I was removed as a judge this year, which is ok but I thought you should have won.
I posted a statement to that effect on our website at Revolution Green.
http://revolution-green.com/pulse-motor-competition-results/
Every one has right to their opinion and I really respect Zero as a judge.
Kind Regards
Mark