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Author Topic: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )  (Read 608480 times)

gotoluc

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #315 on: December 08, 2014, 07:54:38 AM »
Here is the update,

Title says it all...Looking good & poor performance... :o ::) :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbQvFmzti68&list=LLNk6nZuUrTLRnp__hAgAqjw&index=1


Very nice quality build!

Thanks for sharing your results

Luc

lumen

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #316 on: December 09, 2014, 01:17:32 AM »
Yep, it is no different and that is why i wrote in the comment section that cored coils don't seem that bad after this test... ;) :P
This cogging was just ridiculous...never felt anything like it before... :o
Well, good thing we have the lenz effect because without it we won't have any energy production when using a coil/magnet configuration... ;)
Cheers

free,
The main problem I see is not so much the cogging but eddy currents in the iron causing lenz and heating drag.
If you used laminated iron it would operate with the same cogging but would have much less drag.
Even then, the energy out would not be OU because the setup still sees lenz in the coils.
 
I am going to build a version of the design I posted earlier where switching takes place within each coil and nulls the field between each polarity change.
It appears to me that the lenz would only serve to help rotation. (so I think anyway)
Good Luck!
 

Just..Sayin..

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #317 on: December 09, 2014, 03:06:39 AM »
Some Update

I wound two of the 6  output coils with 18 gauge wire for my generator and did some quick  tests. Not sure what to make of the results so maybe I can get some opinions.

I powered 2 of the 6 field coils opposing the 2 output coils that were wound with a 12 volt dc battery charger and i drove the main dc motor with a pwm . Both the field coils power and the motor power were plugged into the same watt meter.

open circuit no load on output coils
RPM 3105
Watts in  575
open voltage out  6.90 dc  2 coils in series thru a bridge rectifier

loaded circuit with 10 k resistor shown below
RPM 3105 (no change)
Watts in 575  (no change)
voltage across resistor .445

shorted output coil
RPM 3105  (no change)
Watts in 575 (no change)

Vince

That there is no change to the input when shorting the output coils is a successful test. Very successful and very encouraging.

Edit... Vince you have confirmed what Syair has claimed and convincingly demonstrated, that back emf can be overcome by employing stationary induction coils and stationary field magnetism, which is interrupted/switched with ferrous rotor segments. The overall machine efficiency in your test was irrelevant.  Thanks very much for your contribution...... I am also working on a similar test that should have great overall machine efficiency and substantial induction efficiency....(if your test results are what you say they are)

The energy we have been putting into conventional alternators/generators to turn the shafts and create electrical power has not been the energy we have been taking out of the machines.... The input power has been used to overcome the resistance between the supplied field and the induced field. The input has always been consumed by the struggle between the two fields. The supplied field and the induced field.

No known laws of physics are being changed with this induction method, the known laws are now being seen in a new light, and employed differently. In reality, very few laws of physics are known when it comes to grand totality of God's creation. We are still entirely clueless as to what makes magnetism actually tick.

Physics has been taken in by a great delusion and a sleight of hand. Why? Because the power needed to overcome the struggle has been precisely the same amount of energy that comes out of the machine. Therefore people assumed it was the transfer of one form of energy into another, when it was not.  It has all been a hoax! Electricity has always been generated from an endless supply of free magnetism. Counter electromotive force, or the lenz effect, has been a great deceiver from day one.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 05:36:23 AM by Just..Sayin.. »

TinselKoala

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #318 on: December 09, 2014, 03:46:10 AM »
I'm standing in my back yard spraying water around with my garden hose. I have a flowmeter attached to the hose and I make a reading. Then you come along with a bucket labelled "output" and run through the yard catching water from the spray in your bucket. Look! There is no change in my flowmeter reading!

A successful test of the Overunity Garden Hose! Very encouraging.

Cap-Z-ro

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #319 on: December 09, 2014, 03:50:27 AM »
" I'm standing in my back yard spraying water around with my garden hose."



Words spoken at least once by every guy drunk and alone in his back yard.

I'm here all week...try the veal...


Jimboot

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #320 on: December 09, 2014, 05:39:26 AM »
I'm standing in my back yard spraying water around with my garden hose. I have a flowmeter attached to the hose and I make a reading. Then you come along with a bucket labelled "output" and run through the yard catching water from the spray in your bucket. Look! There is no change in my flowmeter reading!

A successful test of the Overunity Garden Hose! Very encouraging.
You have a problem with me getting the biggest most efficient bucket?

thngr

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #321 on: December 09, 2014, 08:58:39 AM »
now let us not assume something about what the energy is or gravity is, these have not been answered questions yet. but we know what amper's law or lenz law or faraday law are. Couldn't we replicate syair's device by bicycle rim like bedini school girl motor.


 I'm thinkering about wheels of old scooter of mine rusting in my garden. rims are aluminum (non magnetic) as a holder of laminated steel bars. I have also many transformers like micro wave oven's.some hardboard needed. Lathe can also be used to have smaller air gap in between. (this sunday to work)

vince

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #322 on: December 09, 2014, 03:56:35 PM »
What to do???
This forum is not for the sensitive.  Many here are very intelligent and experienced and somewhat intimidating to others that may not be as well versed in some of these topics. There in lies the dilema,do we post our feeble experiments and share our poor crafstmanship and builds or do we sit back and let the experts debate the topic.  I must say that I agree that we should never make claims with no compelling proof or make outlandish statements that make us us just look silly.
In my case here I made an attempt at replicating a device and I know it is not efficient and has many faults. I did not make ANY claims only shared my observations and "asked for input". Typically we get all kinds of feedback and of course the sarcasm. 
Makes you wonder if it is worth even participating in some of these discussions!

Vince

lumen

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #323 on: December 09, 2014, 04:37:31 PM »
If you think of lenz as the reverse field direction of the output coil it is easy to see that by applying power to the output coil and checking how it affects the rotor one can determine how well your device is getting around the lenz drag.
Of course this doesn't help with eddy current drag in the rest of the device.
 
TK's analogy is close, you are using huge amounts of energy to magnetize the iron rotor by spinning it by those magnets. Then moving the iron by the coil to magnetize it's core takes even more energy.
When the coil is shorted, it prevents some iron in the coil and rotor from becoming fully magnetized and thus reduces some waste load on the rotor.
 
Vince,  you do get points for building devices, many just whine and never build anything so they fail before they start.
 
 
 

T-1000

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #324 on: December 09, 2014, 08:28:27 PM »
Eddy curents can be your best friend sometimes, especially when they help you achieve speed under load... ;) :o ;D
If your goal is RPM then yes, if the goal is to get maximum induction as possible without breaking spin momentum then no... ;)

It is "it" that help one get the Lenz Delayed Effect so that the generator coil start to help out the drive side at a specific rpm instead of dragging it down... ;)
Why the goal was to delay Lenz force in first place? Due opposition to movement which is being delayed?

If to attack problem cause the Lenz force / induced magnetic force has to be manipulated in a way where it neutralizes itself over full cycle. And this can be done easily by inducing current in coil 2 times over single passage near coil... The holy grail is in the pudding :) And this happen when moving iron core becomes alternating magnet due magnetic polarity flipping over 2 magnetic poles very close to to the coil core. This what I did show in my fundamental design and was in E. Leedskalnin generator...

gotoluc

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #325 on: December 09, 2014, 10:24:15 PM »
eddy curents can be your best friend sometimes, especially when they help you achieve speed under load... ;) :o ;D
It is "it" that help one get the Lenz Delayed Effect so that the generator coil start to help out the drive side at a specific rpm instead of

Hi MC,

I would like to know your understanding (the mechanics) of how eddy currents assist in speed under load.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Jimboot

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #326 on: December 09, 2014, 11:02:44 PM »
What to do???
This forum is not for the sensitive.  Many here are very intelligent and experienced and somewhat intimidating to others that may not be as well versed in some of these topics. There in lies the dilema,do we post our feeble experiments and share our poor crafstmanship and builds or do we sit back and let the experts debate the topic.  I must say that I agree that we should never make claims with no compelling proof or make outlandish statements that make us us just look silly.
In my case here I made an attempt at replicating a device and I know it is not efficient and has many faults. I did not make ANY claims only shared my observations and "asked for input". Typically we get all kinds of feedback and of course the sarcasm. 
Makes you wonder if it is worth even participating in some of these discussions!

Vince
HI Vince,
Just ignore the stuff that offends. DOn't take it personally, those guys treat everyone that way. I'm sure they're very nice people in real life :)

MileHigh

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #327 on: December 09, 2014, 11:53:19 PM »
In glancing through this thread I see the notorious term "delayed Lenz effect" being mentioned.  There is no delayed Lenz effect and let's take a quick look at some of the issues involved.

For starters, the term is about the Lenz drag that a rotor experiences when a rotor magnet passes a pick-up coil that is driving a load.  If the rotor speeds up the mistaken assumption is that somehow the drag has been somehow "delayed" such that the rotor experiences less overall Lenz drag and therefore it speeds up.  Presumably nearly the same power is going into the load.  There may be other definitions or interpretations because it is a pretty loosely defined term but let's just use that one for this discussion.

Let's start with some basics like the idea of somehow "cheating Lenz."   Everybody knows that if you hold opposing North-North bar magnets in your hands that there is repulsion.  I don't think anybody would argue that you can "cheat" for this example.  Common sense tells you that opposing magnets repel and there is nothing that is ever going to change that.  So what about the case when a rotor magnet passes by a pick-up coil driving a load resistor?  We all know that current will flow in the coil.  Therefore the pick-up coil itself becomes an electromagnet.   So a spinning rotor magnet with the North facing out will see a Noth pole from an electromagnet (the pick-up coil) as it approaches causing Lenz drag.   When the rotor magnet leaves it will see a South pole electromagnet causing Lenz drag.  There is no way that the rotor magnet will interact in some kind of different way with the pick-up coil which is simply acting as an electromagnet.

If you can't "cheat" the repulsion force between two opposing magnets, by the same token you can't cheat the repulsion force between a magnet and an electromagnet.  If you want to drive a load with your pick-up coil, by definition current has to flow into the load, and therefore by definition the pick-up coil will become an electromagnet that opposes the movement of the spinning rotor magnet.  Therefore, there is no point in searching for an assumed "workaround" or "cheat" or "attempt to delay" the Lenz drag that the rotor magnet will experience.

So what is really happening?   A typical example is where the pick-up coil is shorted out and the rotor spins at say 500 RPM.   Then you attach a load resistor to the pick-up coil and you observe the rotor speed increase to say 800 RPM.  Voila, there is your magic "delayed Lenz effect" - you went from a "no load" condition to a "load" condition and the rotor speeded up.

What's really happening is that you are failing to make proper measurements.  When the coil is shorted out, current circulates through the resistive wire of the coil and that is a load.   When you attach a load resistor to the coil, now the load has changed to the wire resistance plus the load resistor.

Now, in both cases above you can add a small current sensing resistor and measure the RMS voltage across the current sensing resistor.  Then you can calculate the power dissipation in the coil for both cases.

Here is the "surprise":   When you add the load resistor, LESS power is dissipated in the (coil + load resistor) as compared to the coil only.   That is the reason the rotor increases in RPM.

You can see how ironic the whole thing is.   Somebody says, "Wow, I add a load resistor and I increase my output power and the rotor speeds up!  You don't see this in the 'science books.'  This is outside of normal electronics."   

The experimenter thinks that his "rotor is speeding up under load" when in fact the TRUTH is that the rotor is speeding up because you are REDUCING the load on the rotor.  In other words, what is being observed is making perfect sense.  Nothing out of the ordinary is taking place.

Now, when you see people playing with pulse motors and spinning magnets on rotors driving pick-up coils, how often do you see someone attempting to measure the power dissipated in the pick-up coil itself?   The answer is almost never, and that is the root of the problem.  You cannot take anything for granted.  You have to make proper measurements.  In cases like this, all that you really need is a half-decent true-RMS multimeter and you can make the required measurements.

The term "delayed Lenz effect" is false, it doesn't even exist.  It's been around for a couple of years and it results in people leading themselves down a garden path.

MileHigh

T-1000

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #328 on: December 10, 2014, 12:54:04 AM »
The term "delayed Lenz effect" is false, it doesn't even exist.  It's been around for a couple of years and it results in people leading themselves down a garden path.
This assumption comes from misunderstanding on how quickly coil reacts to magnetic impulse given. Obviously the longer wire the bigger inductance is and due that fact the slower coil response is. We are talking about range from microseconds to milliseconds and when proper conditions are met with magnet passing by the coil quicker than it can react with current the speedup under load/short circuit effect manifests.

Just the problem root cause is not how we can circumvent Lenz force itself. Usually in generators you get at least three phase system which contains sets of coils around of ring. If they are all arranged to get magnetic field change at the same time the drag will be biggest (this is what is in conventional generator design). But if you arrange them to get magnetic flux change in series the entire picture changes with resulting lowest drag with price of lowest power output. In that case it is becoming obvious how the drag can be manipulated. To dig in even further the problem source is single static magnetic pole passing by coil which creates alternating magnet by induction. So you have repulsion when it approaches coil which is against movement and attraction when magnet leaves coil which is against movement again. For a child who knows nothing about physics the logical question would occur - what will happen if we can change magnet polarity as it moves and have its one polarity when magnet is approaching coil then start flipping polarity when magnet starts leaving coil? The answer will be quite simple: in that scenario you have repulsion when magnet approaches coil with force opposing movement and will have repulsion with force helping movement when it leaves coil due fact the opposite magnetic field increase on leaving moment. And here most important part occurs: since you can have this arrangement when there are multiple coils getting polarity change in series to each other the one of things can happen - when magnet is approaching one coil and other magnet is leaving another coil at the same time the summary net kinetic force of repulsion around a ring becomes zero. So here is one of solutions how to solve drag issue caused by Lenz force...

shylo

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Re: The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )
« Reply #329 on: December 10, 2014, 01:15:11 AM »
Delayed Lenz is a good analogy , You can't eliminate it but redirect it. Use it to spike another coil ,collect the output and put it back in.
When you feed power to a coil it creates the magnetic field. If I pass a magnet past a coil it creates a magnetic field .
What happens when you pass a magnet past a coil at the same time you pulse it?
artv