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Author Topic: Moray and Correa tube experiments  (Read 16351 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 09:27:21 AM »
Pomodoro


I like to speak with people about these things [projects] and finding the time can be a bit daunting[time zones and work schedules] sometimes I have to wait till the weekends with bigger time windows [for speaking]


But it will happen.
and this Arie de geus plasma  project is a cool one,some of the claims have shown up in similar work
actual "working" claims.


I will be PM ing you once I get the info [patent] which I will post here.


all is open source ,just some things have to be presented properly and wisely.
thx
Chet



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 09:27:21 AM »

Dave45

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 01:33:39 PM »
Interesting thread, I have become very interested in ionizing gas as an electron source here lately,
Please continue.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/camera-flash1.htm

Quote
If you briefly apply a high positive voltage (electromotive force) to this plate, it will exert a strong attraction on the negatively charged electrons in the atoms. If this attraction is strong enough, it will pull the electrons free from the atoms. The process of removing an atom's electrons is called ionization.
This circuit has not been tested, just looking at the possible utilization of sourced electrons in a circuit.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 02:51:19 PM »
The few electrons accelerate towards the anode and liberate many more as they knock them off neutral gas molecules or atoms. Unfortunately these avalanche electrons dissipate all their accelerative energy when they hit the anode. The cathode gets much hotter as the heavier ionized gas molecules or atoms hit it. All you end up doing is passing a current through the gas and heating it. The battery supplies energy to all those electrons. Think of the vacuum tubes with a hot cathode spewing out electrons, because they aren't naturally energetic they are just there to help conduct through the vacuum but require a potential from a battery. When they hit the anode all kinetic energy is lost as heat and the battery discharges.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 02:51:19 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2014, 03:23:33 PM »
The few electrons accelerate towards the anode and liberate many more as they knock them off neutral gas molecules or atoms. Unfortunately these avalanche electrons dissipate all their accelerative energy when they hit the anode. The cathode gets much hotter as the heavier ionized gas molecules or atoms hit it. All you end up doing is passing a current through the gas and heating it. The battery supplies energy to all those electrons. Think of the vacuum tubes with a hot cathode spewing out electrons, because they aren't naturally energetic they are just there to help conduct through the vacuum but require a potential from a battery. When they hit the anode all kinetic energy is lost as heat and the battery discharges.
Very informative thank you
Is the problem the anode material?
Maybe gold is a solution.

Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 03:27:38 PM »
Pomodoro
here is a link to the patent translation work Done by Peterae and itsu
on Arie De Geus

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2469.0

I will get more specific info later today on the plasma F experiment.


Lithium and Boron play an interesting part ,and I will be testing another
Lithium/Boron claim with fossil fuel [a De Geus claim].

thx
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2014, 03:27:38 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2014, 10:03:15 PM »
Pomodoro
@Dave 45

attached below


A very simple process , Very safe to play with ,and several noted things to look for
during the Test procedure.


actually quite amazing .


thx
Chet


Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2014, 01:36:41 AM »
Thanks Chet, that's an interesting and certainly controversial patent.  I'd say that it would be quite a challenge to replicate because some details are not specified. In particular the resonant frequency, amperage and the sort of voltage required to initiate the transmutation.  I would have thought that heat from a nuclear reaction at the electrodes would be enough to vaporize them in no time.  Thanks and keep the info coming..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2014, 01:36:41 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2014, 06:02:12 AM »
I put the tube through some quick tests today.  The diagram shows the connections.

Point X-X was either left open, shorted or had a 12 v relay coil attached. Power supply is DC 0-3000V not 300 as shown.

Argon bottle had a needle valve, which allowed pressure to be regulated by either blocking any argon or allowing some small amount into the system while the vac pump was constantly on. Pressure was regulated from 0.1 to 10 Torr.

When the relay coil is connected, the circuit is very similar to what the correas used in their very first patent, where pulses of the tube were used to drive a motor from a DC supply (US5416391). Instead of the motor's inductance I've put a relay which opens and closes as the pulses discharge.

Above 1 Torr arcing was the preferred method of discharge. Below 1Torr normal glow discharge, where only part of the cathode glowed, and abnormal discharge,where all the cathode was glowing, predominated.  Pulses occured as the capacitor achieved breakdown voltage and the argon gas conducted, enough to cause an abnormal glow discharge but not an arc.

Next step would be try to detect these high energy negative spikes the Correas found when a discharge occurs.  I need to do more reading for a few days.

Enjoy the video, showing the argon pulsing and the relay buzzing. The frequency increases as the current is increased.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2014, 06:29:34 AM »
Here is a quick update showing part of the setup for studying the Correa tube  patents.  I'm going to follow what they did closely. The glass dome is where all the action will take place. Aluminum electrodes will be placed in there under low pressure argon and  will be subjected to pulsed abnormal glow discharges.  Before the experiments begin a pdf will be posted explaining  the Correa patents in basic terms for any beginners wishing to follow the experiment.  The patents are very descriptive and seem to give out most of the detail in full although some claims or descriptions don't quite make sense or seem wrong. - just as in most  most patents.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2014, 06:29:34 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2014, 08:26:39 PM »
@pomodoro

If you are doing electron tubes, you might want to look to the following JLN link;

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/

The construction of the MAHG tube itself is relatively straightforward and the COP input vs. output energy gain
is substantive without going over. :-)  I'd like to know if you are doing anything with MAHG. I've just noticed that
the experimental energy levels are within range of model Stirling engine/generators.

---

In these plasma tubes there is something called space charge. I suspect excess capacitive coupling is caused by
the existence of space charge. That is what inhibits easy use of plasma fusion.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2014, 04:53:30 AM »
@pomodoro

If you are doing electron tubes, you might want to look to the following JLN link;

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/

The construction of the MAHG tube itself is relatively straightforward and the COP input vs. output energy gain
is substantive without going over. :-)  I'd like to know if you are doing anything with MAHG. I've just noticed that
the experimental energy levels are within range of model Stirling engine/generators.

---

In these plasma tubes there is something called space charge. I suspect excess capacitive coupling is caused by
the existence of space charge. That is what inhibits easy use of plasma fusion.

Thanks for the link , it is definitely something I would be interested in replicating without a doubt; for more reasons than one.  I think I may have come across that tube some time ago, but must have forgotten about it. I probably didn't have the gear back then to be able to attempt a replication. Now that I do, it will be next on my list, after the Correa tubes.

I had actually read the Langmuir arrticle by Moller (  http://www.gifnet.org/articles/Langmuir%20&%20Atomic%20Hydrogen.pdf ) just a few days ago, after enjoying some great videos from the 1940's on youtube, regarding atomic hydrogen welding.(Part 1:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZwYMyHlWXk  ).
In his PDF, Moller wrote " one edition of Van Nostrand’s Encyclopedia of Science it was stated “Hydrogen molecules dissociate to atoms endothermically at high temperatures (heat of dissociation about 103 cal/gram mole) in an electric arc, or by irradiation” ....” the hydrogen atoms recombine at the metal surface to provide heat required for welding.”
What is surprising here is that the actual energy value needed for the dissociation of the hydrogen molecule is given, but the calorific value for the recombination of the atoms into molecules is strangely omitted.From Langmuir’s experiments and findings we know that the minimum calorific value for the recombination of atoms was agreed to be in the region 90.000 cal/gram molecule. In other words we have an input energy of 103 cal/gram molecule and an output energy of 90.000 cal/gram molecule. In conventional science this seems to be violating the law of conservation of energy."
So Moller claims that about 1000 times more power is released when two hydrogen atoms combine to form a diatomic hydrogen molecule, compared to the energy required to break the diatomic molecule into the atoms.  I will now give you the reason why I dismissed this claim. First of all, Moller uses only one reference, an encyclopedia, which is a generic science one, not a book on hydrogen.  Mainly though, there is a small difference in writing the word calorie or cal, which makes a massive difference. Writing the word as Calorie or Cal gives it 1000 times the value of writing it as calorie.  So 103 Calories/gram = 103,000 calories per gram. I don't have a copy of the encyclopedia Moller mentioned, but it is possible that either the article forgot to add the capital C or that Moller did not know of the difference. Secondly, if so much heat were released from recombination, compared to what was required to split the molecule, as soon as one molecule was split, the excess heat of 1000x would cause nearby molecules to split, initiating a chain reaction, which we know does not happen.
So the MAHG is a brilliant experiment to replicate because in theory it should NOT work!  If it does work, well you guys will be the first to know and I will gladly eat my words. If, on the other hand, I am very definite that I carried the simple experiment out correctly and there is no COP>1 then it would make me suspicious of anything ever claimed by these well known chaps involved with the MAHG.

So thanks again, I think this Correa stuff will keep me busy for a few months and hopefully  more if they end up working. I'll be trying hydrogen in these tubes as well, lets see what it does in there.
The Correa patents are long and hard to understand when first read, but essentially all that happens is that a new type of discharge has been found by them.  The over unity comes from a discharge in the negative resistance region just as the tube is about to arc. The tube is not allowed to arc, and the cycle repeats itself.  Its not simply about pulsing the tubes in the abnormal glow region. These new discharges are localized, just like arcs but are wider and conical in shape. Thats all there is to it. 




 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2014, 04:53:30 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2014, 06:09:34 AM »
The system is now up and running.

 A video is attached which shows my version of the correa tube pulsing.  Under the glass dome are two Aluminum plates separated by 5cm. They are connected to two terminals under the small table. The vacuum pump (just the rotary, no turbomolecular) draws vacuum from underneath the small table creating an adjustable  vacuum between .01 to 1 mbar under dome. An adjustable power supply is used to supply a voltage to the plates through a high voltage and high wattage 3.3k resistor.  A capacitor is in parallel with the tube.  Its a very simple circuit as shown in the picture.

No readings were taken as the setup was simply used to see if it worked. I found it quite amazing when the blue glow engulfed the cathode and spread through the dome as the pressure was lowered. Whether we find OU or not this experiment is worth doing just for fun!

I took a video in the dark, to show you guys what it looks like when the capacitor has charged up to the breakdown voltage.  The video shows the discharge at at the  sub 1mbar range.  At such a pressure, the plate reaches the abnormal glow region first (all this means is that the whole plate is covered with a glow) and then, what looks like a reddish vacuum arc, discharges the rest of the charge.  The oscillations are sped up by increasing the power supply voltage and hence the capacitor charge time.  With less vacuum, no glow is seen , only an arc discharge.  The first serious step will be to measure the important I/V curve of the tube by measuring the tube voltage drop as the current is increased, at the same  identifying the different types of discharge.

In the Video below, the cathode is the plate on the left. Although it seems like it was glowing all the time, it actually fully extinguished before glowing and arcing in the next cycle.

Offline Kator01

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2014, 05:27:20 PM »
Pomodoro,

please be careful because of X-Rays which might be generated.

The following video is from a Austrian Website and shows the relationship of the state of vaccum ( turbo-molecular-pump is heard)  and generated X-ray radiance indicated by a geiger-counter.
As the vaccum is increased the discharge-light decreases down to zero while the x-rays increase to such a level that the alarm is set off by the geiger-counter

http://www.hcrs.at/VIDEOS/GEISSD.MPG

note that this tube is run by 20 kV but it is the state of the vacuum which is one important parameter for generating x-rays.

Kator01

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2014, 09:48:10 PM »
pick your poison;  8)

PHOTON ENERGY to attenuation length Weblink;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray#mediaviewer/File:Attenuation.svg

BTW, Pomodoro, I believe you mentioned that the abnormal glow discharge region was trapezoidal in shape.
Something to think about; is that "rays" (not saying what kind) can produce some peculiar
displays as rays are often emitted from tiny point sources, while light is often a wavefront.
So it is worth looking at the geometry of peculiar displays. Same, if display differs
in intensity from a straight inverse R^2 decrease.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2014, 03:44:34 AM »
Thanks kator, that is an informative little video. I will stick my geiger counter next to the dome for the next run just in case.  I don't think I'm in any danger as the gas breaks down at less than 1000V and the power supply maxes out at 3000. Mscoffman, after the air run, I tried one with argon.  At first I though it was an optical illusion from the glass, but the plasma spreads out from the cathode spot into a cone shape by the time it hits the anode. What was surprizing were  the undulations you can easily see.  Unfortunately my knowledge of plasma is very limited and I don't as yet know what it means. In the Correa Patent 5,416,391  he mentions "The pulsed AGD (abnormal glow discharge) is only sustainable when the intensity of the supplied current is greater than that needed to rapidly saturate the plates but not so much as to setup VAD (vacuum arc discharge), the result being the development of auto-electronic emission with its associated cone-like discharge and a residual faint glow of the entire cathode."
To me it sounds like what is shown in the picture?     The BW picture is by the Correas.

 

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