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Author Topic: Moray and Correa tube experiments  (Read 16398 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Moray and Correa tube experiments
« on: November 08, 2014, 05:16:31 PM »
Guys this thread is about replicating Thomas Moray's oscillating tubes as well as other related technology which includes cold cathode discharge tubes such as those of the Correas. I have gathered much of the equipment to give this a good shot, but will need help for sure.
The thread will be about experiments and results but so much theory. Plasma physics is extremely difficult and way over my head. Initial experiments will focus on existing tubes such as neon globes, deuterium lamps, fluro lamps and hollow cathode devices.  The behavior of these devices when pulsed in the abnormal glow region will be studied , in particular we will be looking at oscillations and negative resistance. When these have been understood completely, and if none of these tubes show signs of OU we will move on to making tubes similar to Moray and Correa.  There is plenty to work on here so begin slowly and from real basics.

Step one . Equipment
I've finished building a 0- 3000V DC MOT based power supply.
Currently I am building a stacked MOSFET switch to pulse the tubes.
I already have a pulse/frequency generator to drive the MOSFET stack.
A basic digital scope, large resistors and the usual stuff most of us have.
I have plenty of those tubes mentioned above, Rotary vac pump, turbo pump,argon,hydrogen and helium.

Experiment 1.  To study the current voltage curve of a neon bulb before it reaches arcing regime.  This seemed easy enough but in my first sessions I managed to fry the pulse generator and blow resistors and fuses. The neon globe showed no arcing even with 500mA. Experiment will continue when the stack is finished.

Theory:   Discharge tubes do not behave as linear resistors.
The current vs voltage curve will look similar to the picture attached pic1. (To be attached later). The small neon globe will not handle the large current required to reach the abnormal glow region and we can only study its behavior by pulsing  the tube with high current. To be continued..

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Moray and Correa tube experiments
« on: November 08, 2014, 05:16:31 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2014, 05:43:58 PM »
You had best be careful with that  MOT power supply!

You might find my "anatmosphere" videos of interest.

Here are a few:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLCOBzuxIWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFRhRgY_9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CFqG1s1abQ

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 02:31:49 AM »
You had best be careful with that  MOT power supply!

You might find my "anatmosphere" videos of interest.

Here are a few:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLCOBzuxIWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFRhRgY_9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CFqG1s1abQ

Very interesting, thank you.  Great shots of the dome! 
What gas is in the dome? 
I couldn't quite tell but is there any current limiting for the dome or is the supply self limiting?
You definitely have enough current to reach the abnormal glow region on both electrodes as cathodes there even without a turbo pump.
Yes I need to be extra careful with the mot  supply but I found it the simplest and most cost effective way to get smooth high continuous currents. I've kept the magnetic shunts in place for now and being variac controlled I try to keep the output as low as needed.

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 02:31:49 AM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2014, 01:20:34 PM »
Pomodoro,

do you know that Dr. Harold Aspden had a report on his website 1996 about the Correa-Device ?

http://web.archive.org/web/20110307044706/http://www.aspden.org/reports/Es8/Rep8.htm

Kator01

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2014, 04:38:41 PM »
@Pomodoro:

Just air in the chamber, and the supply in those videos is current-limited at 6 amps input to the driver. The power arcs that form before the vacuum is low enough for glow discharge are very hot and I do not want to take the chance of cracking my glass hemisphere, which is half of a bathysphere designed and tested to great depths of water pressure.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2014, 04:38:41 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 09:53:50 AM »
@Pomodoro:

Just air in the chamber, and the supply in those videos is current-limited at 6 amps input to the driver. The power arcs that form before the vacuum is low enough for glow discharge are very hot and I do not want to take the chance of cracking my glass hemisphere, which is half of a bathysphere designed and tested to great depths of water pressure.

Awesome, thanks TineslKoala, you have given me some good ideas already, that of using a glass dessicator.


kator, thanks for the link. I had come across an abridged version but yours is much better.  Those Correa patents are rather long and need to be read many times over.  The moray tube seem to me to be capacitor type cold cathode tubes that would need to be tested with rf only. In a quick preliminary test, I found that a few thousand volts from an oudin coil easily 'pass through' the quartz tube to the inner metal cylinder creating a type of brush discharge. This was done with air and no vacuum, trying to test Morays first type of sparking condenser. 

Since I'm starting from scratch I'm not rushing into Correa or Moray but need to get all my facts and theories right, so absolutely any input is welcome.   Here is one silly question, why does a neon bulb oscillate when it is in series with the power supply with a 10M resistor. Voltage  of supply is held very close to extinction , there is no capacitor parallel to bulb. Oscillaton looks like a relaxation sawtooth. Voltage across neon bulb oscillates in the khz range.  This is in the negative resistance region but its not a sine wave and also, lead inductance and stray cap should be in the MHz region?
This is not a trick question. The large 10M resistor converts the voltage supply into a current source.  At 3000V there is still only  300uA flowing.  When the voltage supply is turned off, its internal 4uF cap starts to discharge and the current through the bulb decreases slowly. Voltage across the bulb stays steady at about 70V all this time, while its in the normal glow discharge regime. Then it starts to rise slightly while the current still falls, hence the negative resistance, and the oscillations begin, then as the current drops further, voltage rises across bulb and bulb extinguishes.  Frequency of these oscilations depends on voltage (or current). The oscillations are not visible but measured with the oscilloscope.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 01:31:25 PM by pomodoro »

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 01:03:01 PM »
Just a quick update on my progress, and to keep the thread alive while preliminaries are being sorted.

In my first post I mentioned starting at basics, well I learned what not to do and managed to trace a few current voltage curves, but nothing worth mentioning. I also managed to blow fets and the signal generator in the process.  I've fixed everything and build a fast opto isolator mosfet driver so this won't happen again.

My first Correa tube is nearly ready for testing. Its not the same as in the patents, but was mentioned briefly in one of them and in some other literature from them. It is of a coaxial design with a copper tube cathode  and a small aluminum rod in the middle acting as the anode.
 The area of the anode is similar to that as utilized by the Correas ~128 sqcm. The reason for this design over the  flat parallel plates found in the patent description is the following :
Aspen's notes on the tubes, and the possible importance of a smaller anode to cathode area ratio
Ease of manufacture
Ease of cathode cooling
Similarity to Clancy Britton's OU tube.

Aluminum was probably a better choice for the cathode as it has very low sputtering and a lower work function, but I was unable to find a suitable tube.

Torr-Seal epoxy was used to join the tube and rod to polycarbonate sheets.

Another change is how I will try to get OU out of it. The correas use a strange rectifying circuit to charge battery packs. To me it seems very inefficient and not the way to go. It also reminds me of bedini's pulse chargers, which as we know are easily criticized.
 I plan on using the tube in a configuration similar to Duddel's singing arc  (and poulsen's use of hydrogen and ethanol,) at audible frequencies, perhaps even lower.
Hydrogen seems the way to go but initial tests will utilize Argon.

I'll soon attach all the documents I've been reading and using as reference. Hopefully some of you will help me along. A few pics will also be attached once I've beautified the ugly tube.

Meanwhile, take a look at the attached pic as found in their patent. It is meant to capture the excess energy released as the tube is pulsed. Its not made very clear in the patent description, but from my experience the tube oscillates as part of a relaxation circuit made by the resistor feeding the tube and charging the capacitors  parallel to the tube.  The resistance needs to be small enough to enable the tube to stop conducting when the capacitors have discharged.The patent is US5449989.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 01:03:01 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 04:40:17 AM »
This is my attempt at a correa gas discharge tube.

Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 08:29:09 AM »
Sir
Respectfully ,This does work  [Correa Bros.}
we have a fellow here that did a lot of _Correa_ experiments "Marco" [ XSEnergy, Turbo] and I absolutely believe his replication claims.


you should reach out for him he is a good Guy.


also we have a friend looking into similar _Excess energy_ Vacuum chamber claims By Arie De Geus
if you are interested I can post some info


thx
Chet

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 08:29:09 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 08:55:30 AM »
Thank Chet, yes please send any info you have. The more the better.

Cheers



Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 09:04:54 AM »
its 3 AM here
I will do this Later [Arie De geus info]


also I will try to contact Marco [might take a few days] ,he will definitely assist a sincere replication
of Correa Bros.


thx for sharing your work


Chet


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 09:04:54 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 09:34:50 AM »
Thanks Chet.


Ok meanwhile here are some of the docs for anyone to read.  The patents are not posted here as they are easy to download and a re quite large.
There are patents US5449989, US5502354, US5416391 in order of importance.
These files are attached
4 is a description of the overunity system by the Correas.
5. Some strange letter by the correas against some other fellow.
6. Clancy Brittons patent, showing a coaxial device.
7. How Poulsen got RF  oscillations from an arc, by improving Duddels design
8. How to obtain Oscillations from arc.

I'm currently trying to get some strong oscillations from a 2-3A DC carbon arc with a shunt LC combination.  I'm following notes from item 8.  its not as easy as it seems.....




Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 02:58:07 PM »
Chet, I think I found the Marco thread.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=892a6dd25b2f364141687c39d47a7e09&topic=17.0
The thread seems to end abruptly. I'd love to see those mentioned DVDs but unfortunately they don't seem to be available for free.

Offline ramset

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 11:47:10 PM »
Pomodoro
Still working on getting that info,it will be about 12hrs from now [I missed the time window today]


will keep you posted
Thx
Chet

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Moray and Correa tube experiments
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 09:14:26 AM »
Yep, no probs.

Here is a vid of the tube being evacuated.

 

OneLink