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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: ZeR888 on September 12, 2006, 11:42:34 PM

Title: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: ZeR888 on September 12, 2006, 11:42:34 PM
Hi,

My name is David, I'm from Belgium. I don't know anything about hydrogen bateries exept a litle part I have been able to understand from this website.
I found this forum when I was looking for information about the Magdrive HHO Generators ( http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/index.html ).
Is this another scam ? Should I order it?

Here is a video of the "working thing"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGYkxX6KwNE&mode=related&search=

Thank you for sharing your brains ^^

Best regards
David
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: sergio007 on September 13, 2006, 10:50:52 AM
I'm not an expert in H2O system, but you wanted advise then it is :  ;)

For making hydrogen, no system can put more power in hydrogen than the power needed to make it. Like to get 50 Watts of power hydrogen, you need 100 Watts (The best system if I remember is 80%)  :-[

Then I don't know for this system, but frequently they ask you to connect on the 12 Volts battery, Then I think you will understand my point of view. Really not a great reduction of power.  ::)

Secondo, personnally, I will not mount H2O system on a engin motor not suited for it ! Why, What you get after combustion with hydrogen ? Water and water = rust in long term, then less life for the engin and all part not made to work with water or vapor of water.  ::)

Alp
Sergio
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: ZeR888 on September 13, 2006, 10:59:01 AM
Hi Sergio,

Thank you for your reply.
From what i've been able to read there are no secondary bateries needed for the installation. It seems the batery is your standard batery installed in your car which is recharged by the standard dynamo installed in the car. They just recommend not to start the "hydrogen generator" if the car engine's not running.

Here I found another interesting website "claiming" to have 15-50% of oil reduction costs .
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/

This one looks verry similar to the other one.

Best regards
David
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Paul-R on September 14, 2006, 04:09:30 PM
I'm not an expert in H2O system, but you wanted advise then it is :  ;)
For making hydrogen, no system can put more power in hydrogen than the power needed to make it. Like to get 50 Watts of power hydrogen, you need 100 Watts (The best system if I remember is 80%)  :-[
Sergio
This is hopelessly oversimplified. There are more variations of H2 than are taught
in schools. There is some very exotic work being discussed here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hydroxy/
Paul
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 05:19:00 PM
Here are more videos of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwmBR9-Ukyw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LGs2FgS_ek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfgBKwIjlss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvnhQR7slY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hv8ZPTNQtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMxAbqnLw-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DrOnnlTnDY

In this one they are running the car only on HHO gas !
Amazing work !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMWd6T_hbhQ
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 05:30:40 PM
Here is more on Denny Klein?s car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa1meqFFjjM
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikestocks2006 on September 14, 2006, 06:28:32 PM
The 64 trillion dollar question still remains.

Can it produce more power per unit volume of H HO created, than the power  required to create the H HO unit volume?

A simple litmus test would be:

a. Hook up the Hydrogen generator gas out put to a e.g. portable electric generator ( like the small back up ones used for power outage at home 4 cycle piston gasoline powered)

b. Take the electric output from the electric generator and feed it to the Hydrogen generator.

c. If it produces enough H HO to run the piston engine and there is electric power left over then that's it!!!



In the car examples movies the piston engine drives the alternator that feed the car battery which feed the H HO generator who's gas output (H HO fuel) is plumbed into the engine gasoline/air intake.

Is there enough horsepower left (if any) to drive the car after the above loop's requirements are met?

If yes then that's it!!!

If not, an economic study needs to be performed for the usage of the system vs gasoline assuming there is an overall engine efficiency improvement. A customer will only be concerned about overall efficiency improvement without loss of normal power output.

Anyway it seems a lot of people are working in the right direction.

Thx for the links.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 10:18:42 PM
You can have a look at their homepage
where all videos are linked to.
http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/index.html

They claim, that they can run a motor just by their
HHO gas, but they say, the motor then rusts too fast,
so it better to mix it with normal gasoline fuel.

It seems they can really produce more gas than is
needed from the alternator as electrical input, so they
have enough power left to run the motor and drive with it
and the alternator keeps on running the electrolysis via the
car battery.
As hydroxy is really much more explosive than gasoline,
it seems to have more power during combustion than gasoline-air
mixes, so there is more power coming from the engine this way.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikestocks2006 on September 14, 2006, 10:42:23 PM
You can have a look at their homepage
where all videos are linked to.
http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/index.html

They claim, that they can run a motor just by their
HHO gas, but they say, the motor then rusts too fast,
so it better to mix it with normal gasoline fuel.

It seems they can really produce more gas than is
needed from the alternator as electrical input, so they
have enough power left to run the motor and drive with it
and the alternator keeps on running the electrolysis via the
car battery.
As hydroxy is really much more explosive than gasoline,
it seems to have more power during combustion than gasoline-air
mixes, so there is more power coming from the engine this way.
If they can run the car without any gasoline and the battery is still fully charged at the end of the trip, then they have done it! True power from water only.

In regards to rusting effects or possible hydrogen embritlment, maybe use of different materials for the combustion chamber walls, head, and valves would help, or possibly another type of engine all together?

Unless I missed it on that link, their system is an add on to be used along with gasoline with good fuel cost saving according to their tests. Do they have a 100% water powered car demonstrating extended drive and under normal driving conditions?

Stefan, Thx for the link(s).
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 11:07:00 PM
Yes, they have:

Watch this:

http://www.fuel-from-water.com/inside-super-gen-part2.html

Also they state it in their FAQ, that the biggest SuperGen
can run alone a car:

http://fuelfromh2o.com/cgi-bin/faqgen/faqgen.cgi
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 11:18:40 PM
Here they are running this car on only the Magdrive SuperGen from Water:

http://www.fuel-from-water.com/installed-super-gen.html
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 14, 2006, 11:31:34 PM
Here they also stated it that they can run the engine solely on water:
http://www.magdrivehydro-gen.com/more-info.html

Also I like their business strategy, that they don?t sell it at too high prizes,
but at a price level anyone can afford !
;) Very nice !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikestocks2006 on September 15, 2006, 01:24:27 AM
Here they also stated it that they can run the engine solely on water:
http://www.magdrivehydro-gen.com/more-info.html

Also I like their business strategy, that they don?t sell it at too high prizes,
but at a price level anyone can afford !
;) Very nice !

Regards, Stefan.
Ok! Got it, thanks. This is it then, except for the engine retrofits to withstand corrosion and/or H2 embritlement.
Very nice.
Maybe usage of a different type powerplant, eg turbine system or implosion engine would improve it even more.
Thx again.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 15, 2006, 06:54:39 AM
Here are the videos on google video:

http://video.google.de/videosearch?q=magdrive

Looks amazing, that they can drive from water alone !
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Walter Hofmann on September 15, 2006, 12:05:40 PM
Hi stefan,
I dont think that they run the engine solely on hydroxy, at least it is nowhere mentioned.
maybe I am wrong but I looked over the whole describtions and could not find it.
If you found something please let me know.
greetings
walt
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 15, 2006, 12:15:04 PM
Hi Walter,
well I studied all the videos of the Magdrive yeasterday and indeed they claim with their installation of their SuperGen inside their F-150 car, that they can now drive this with just water ! Although they don?t recommend it, cause the rust will make the engine go bad after a while..!
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 15, 2006, 12:20:37 PM
Well,it looks from their videos that they really get now 1 Gallon of Hydroxy per minute from just 12 Volts * 15 Amps, that is just 180 Watts input only, that is a very good gas output for under 200 Watts of input !
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikestocks2006 on September 15, 2006, 01:34:49 PM
Well,it looks from their videos that they really get now 1 Gallon of Hydroxy per minute from just 12 Volts * 15 Amps, that is just 180 Watts input only, that is a very good gas output for under 200 Watts of input !

 Couple of thoughts on the volume per minute. 1 Gallon is about 3.8 litters. 3.785 to be more exact

As an example, let?s take a 1 Litter (1000 cc) displacement internal combustion 4 stroke engine idling at 1000 rpm.

The air-fuel volume intake per cycle is 250 ccs or ? of Litter. At 1000 rpm (1000 cycles per minute) it requires
1000 x .25 = 250 Litters per minute or about 66 Gallons of volume air-fuel mixture, ofc assuming atmospheric pressure and no supercharger or turbo involved (it would need even more volume then)

To have the 1000 cc engine run at 1000 rpm, would a mixture of 1 part volume H HO and 65 parts AIR do the job without any other hydrocarbon additives? Maybe it is. Does anyone know what type of reaction takes place in these ratios of  1 part H HO  and  65 parts AIR (21% O2 ? 78% N2 approx)? and what are the byproducts of such reaction?
Any combustion engineers in the forum please chime in.

Maybe it?s a new type of reaction largely unexplored and/or the heat generated (would require an exothermic reaction) is so high that the air pressure at that high temp within the chamber?s volume produces the power during the power cycle of the engine.

On a side note,
H-HO by it self at 1 Gallon per min without any air added doesn?t seem to be enough to satisfy the volume intake requirements.
If I recall from the basics, H HO stoichiometricaly is not exploding per se but actually implodes back to liquid water. However; it does create an almost perfect vacuum in the process and if I also recall correctly the reaction is endothermic (absorbs heat from the environment to recombine the gasses back to the liquid form.)

Just a couple of thoughts...

From the videos it seems it?s working on pure water, and that is all it would really matter at the end.!


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 15, 2006, 01:56:17 PM
Well, yes, but they probably mix it somehow still with air !
In the video you can see the vacuum gauge meter and it still
displays around 17 to 22 PSI vacuum pressure when the motor
runs on pure HHO.
Maybe they still mix it inside the carburator with air..

Also from my own experiments I know, that a vacuum can pull
a lot more HHO gas from the electrolyser !

That is one trick to get much more gas out there !
Also they run it just WITHOUT a bubbler, which I find personaly is
pretty dangerous as they also use stainless steel for the container
and if their flashback arrestor does not work in any instance,
this will be a big bomb going off, but it seems
to be the only solution to be
able to pull the vacuum above the gas and thus produce a lot
more gas via the vacuuma and don?t use an expensive vacuum pump
for this...


If I start again experimenting with HHO gas production I would
rather go with a vacuum pump to produce a vacuum above the gas
and better use only plastic cylinders and only stainless steel mesh
inside the electrolyser and have a bubbler behind it for safety reasons...

But maybe someone from the forum can order such a unit for his car,
hey these are already available and only go between 170 and 300 US$ and
you can at least save 30 to 50 % fuel, if you go just for the booster version...

Unfortunately they only ship inside the USA, so I can not order it.

It would be good to see this fitted to an external 2000 Watts
powersupply motor-generator
combination and see, if this unit can power itsself and still power
a few incandescent lamps with it !

This would be a nice test, if someone could do this and would prove the overunity
factor in these devices !

Many thanks !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Walter Hofmann on September 15, 2006, 11:02:06 PM
Hi stefan,
if they would garanty that the unit can power for instance a 10 horsepower generator engine I would order the super mini what they say is for compact cars.
But I still got some problemes from my experience, it is a singele cell unit connectet to the 12V batterie but they claim the unit only works on 1.5V big question mark, the second part is they use similar to my horizontal plate assembly and my tests did show the temperature rises on 12 V above 100 degree F or maybe they mean 100degree C what is pretty high. on the open unit vid what I have seen on bubbles is nothing just springles. My open cells shows big bubbles about 3/4 inch. The next portion is like you allready pointet out without a bubbler is realy dangerous just in the engine compartement from the engine there are temperature of about 160 degree then add about 100 degree and a steel container which heats up too, I dont know.
For the vacuum I have tested a few versions including the engine suctionbut with a bubbler and all of them have failed probably do to the bubbler in the moment if the suction of the engine pulls it stops the gas flow thats my main probleme with this. Maybe it has to do with the orifi what they use, I did try it but it did not work different.
I will try it out with direct drive without a bubbler lets see.
greetings
walt
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 16, 2006, 12:37:15 AM
Hi Walter,
well they just use 12 Volts and about 15 amps in their biggest unit the
SuperGen.
1.5 Volt was just mentioned, when they turn off the power supply,
that the plates act a bit like batteries and have left a charge for
a while with 1.5 Volts.
Seems this got mixed up.
It is the same, as if you use graphite electrodes as
they store some gas and then work as supercapacitors,
but with other electrodes this effect is almost zero or
very low storage, so this has no big influence...

With the SuperGen for 300 US$ they claim to be able to run
a car solely on water !
It produces at 180 Watts DC input about 1 Gallon of Hydroxy
gas in their test video with NO vacuum suction.
So connected to the vacuum of the engine I would think it will produce at least
2 times this amount of gas.

Also they show the electrolyte almost cooking at around 180 degrees Fahrenheit !
So it runs probably pretty hot inside the stainless steel cylinder.

Maybe it would be good to put alufoil slides into the gas-output-hoses to
prevent a flame temperature rise, if a flashback occurs.

This is usually used to drop down the temperature of a flame-front and
thus prevents flashback detonations !

Also they use 30 amps fuses, so the current must be
lower than this.

If somebody from the USA already ordered and got the SuperGen,
please post a few photos of it.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: MagDrive on September 16, 2006, 09:18:11 AM
That is correct, we can run the vehicle's engine on the Super-Gen, we didn't demonstrate or state we were driving it around town but the S-G was capable of running the engine soley on HHO. When you view our videos you are seeing the HHO in the blue water dye test coming directly from the HHO generator being created without any demand and free flowing into the dyed water. It produces pretty good for our standards but when put under 17 -22" of Vac you ought to see it then. Under static conditions you are seeing better than a gallon per/min at appx 3 psi, we say a gallon but its better than 2 but thats no big deal when compared to 22" of VAC. At 22" VAC that HHO comes out like it was coming from a high preasure hose. Using the configuration that we use, both the venturi [duel] tubes in front of the throttle body and the direct injection by vacumn into the intake manifold directly the SG will produce all that the engine calls for. Also at higher speeds the exothermic temps rise to over 200*F and the amperage does increase due to cell activity during demand. Never once in our history have we had a blow back or mishap of back fire. Surprisingly the gas/liquid check valves are of excellent quality and have never failed yet!!! The exhaust actually doesn't have any odor at all and the emissions are at the lowest level on record that the testing facility had ever seen for a 16 year old truck and technology w/178,000 miles, so we must be doing something right. Also to fill you in, the operating temp of the engine does go down appx 3-5 *F when running on the HHO/Fuel mix [hybrid] because the conversion during cumbustion converting the HHO back to h2o and then into super heated steam, it gets the heat from the surrounding cumbustion chamber. So in essence, we start with h2o, we split it into HHO then we combine it with fuel/air and combust it. It then converts back to h2o, then its super heated to high temp steam and is pushed out thru the exhaust where it condenses back into h2o. So we start with h2o and end up with h2o using appx 1.75 quarts per/400 miles. Hope this helps with your investigation.
Soon we will be introducing the Micro-Mini for Jet water craft and Atvs including motorcycles up to 750cc. They will operate on appx 3-4 amps/12vlts DC. Enough to make a 40 mpg vehicle get upwards of 55 miles per/gal. Remember its not how much you can produce, its what and how you distribute the HHO efficiently to get the most out of it, no different than the petrol you are trying to stretch for milage.
Best Regards,
MagDrive
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on September 17, 2006, 01:13:38 AM
Hi Magdrive,
that sounds fantastic !
If this works so well,
could you please modify an external power supply (motor-generator
normally run on gasoline)
and run this completely on water ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: raburgeson on September 22, 2006, 05:22:23 AM
Stephen,

   It sounds like you may have had contact with this company. Alternators under heavy load only draw typically 10 hp. The normally asked questions don't answer any of mine. Would industrial chrome plating .002 thick be sufficient to protect the engine for complete conversion? Does the electrolyte contain or exhaust anything harmful into the enviroment? I realise water does not but there is not pure water in the chamber.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: ResinRat2 on September 22, 2006, 02:16:45 PM
Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the info.

I used to think that burning hydrogen in our vehicles was the way to go, but now the rust issue concerns me more. As difficult as it is now to make our vehicles last, I hate the idea of intentionally exposing the engine components to water. I know water is produced in combustion, but the small amount that is now produced in burning gasoline is nothing compared to what this technology would create. Unless our vehicles were designed beforehand to be water resistant, which they are not at this time.

I am now leaning to the hydrogen fuel cell technology instead. This seems the better way to go but also requires a complete change in vehicle design. Maybe at least the cars could last more than a few years before they began to rust. Hydrogen seems to have its own set of (different) problems.

Thanks for letting us express our opinions.

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on September 22, 2006, 02:28:36 PM
Hi-

 What about aluminum heads? They don't rust. Stainless steel valves, piston sleeves, rings and pistons along with stainless steel exhaust and away you go! free of rust problems forever. Somebody mentioned somewhere about  ceramic coating the parts too. I'd rather pay for the engine upgrade than pay for stinky,polluting ,arab oil thanks very much.
 Hey I was wondering if anybody was able to contact Magdrive via email? I tried their listed email a couple of times but it just bounces back.

Best,
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: sergio007 on September 22, 2006, 03:50:26 PM
pg46,

Simple, because aluminium have less rigidity!  ;) Then new motor are made from aluminium casting block for the casing, but since aluminium have less rigidity, you need to have bigger valve ect...  Then need more calculation but you cannot only made it from aluminium from cast iron directly or will you get less life from your engin.   :-\

For the engin block, il less trouble since you can add easely thickess and you get better rigidited/ weight ratio, but other parts, it's harder to tell !

For corrosion, it's false to say aluminium don't corrode. I don't know what we will expect, but aluminium corrode ! And don't do like me do a prototype with alumimium and copper mixted together in same bath of water ! It will not last long and without contact between alloy! (Hole anywhere ! this created electrolisys and without  electricity! ! ! I have learned ! )  ::)

Alp
Sergio

PS, Like  Hartiberlin said in last post, personally I'll be waiting  the seller really proof you getting more power from this invention then you put in ...    But for now peronnally, I'm sorry but I don't have this proof!  :'(
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: raburgeson on September 26, 2006, 08:22:09 PM
Well it is the way to go, it's more work than it looks like at a glance. You have to tear down a long block and protect it. It's not the hydrogen's processes fault present engine materials aren't up to it. Industrial chrome is hard and has strong bonding characteristics and I was wondering if it would do the job. The engine temperature being cooler will not be high enough to evaperate moisture left in the engine. Gas isn't a waterless fuel either and leaves moisture and when the engine cools it sucks in moist air because of contraction. The heads on unleaded engines have stainless seats and valves. just mask off the valve area and the heads sealing surface, spray engine paint not to thickly on the combustion area and bake it on. The block and pistons need to be plated though, the block can be plated with stainless but I don't think the pistons can be. Chrome is tuffer and bonds better so I was asking?
remember you run water for coolent through the heads. I was under the impressing aluminium reacts and gets brittle in Hydrogen enviroments?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: raburgeson on September 26, 2006, 08:52:17 PM
Let me change the modify the topic to my main interest for the moment. If you take a 25 amp battery charger and run this system in your house for heating? A tube with a venturi and a 45 degree hole drilled to the back side of the venturi to provide a vacuum when you blow air through the tube (say with a small squirel cage) to mix the fuel with air. would that be able the work in a furnace designed around this? I'm paying $250 a month year around for Natural gas and would rather pay year around the price of burning a couple of 100 watt bulbs. I hope Mag Co. is watching these posts. And down South gas refrigeration systems converted to Hydrogen could turn homes into walkin freezers for a pittance. Most central air systems now run on 240 and have quite high current draw.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mark australia on October 07, 2006, 05:14:01 AM
Hi Stephan,
where did you get the gallon per minute. i agee they are using 180 watts but at best all i can see by the rate of bubbles is about 1 litre a minute. Go have a look at the gorrilla cell video which is only producing 2 to 3 litres per minute.
I do believe their product will improve efficency of engines but no way could you power a vehicle on this cell entirly. You need at least 10 fold that to run it at idle.
mark
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pese on October 15, 2006, 09:49:22 PM
Collection of HHO Brown Rodrige R-Gas   and more.....

http://video.google.de/videosearch?q=hho
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Nekar on October 25, 2006, 08:14:23 AM
Also to fill you in, the operating temp of the engine does go down appx 3-5 *F when running on the HHO/Fuel mix [hybrid] because the conversion during cumbustion converting the HHO back to h2o and then into super heated steam, it gets the heat from the surrounding cumbustion chamber. So in essence, we start with h2o, we split it into HHO then we combine it with fuel/air and combust it. It then converts back to h2o, then its super heated to high temp steam and is pushed out thru the exhaust where it condenses back into h2o.

What is this super heated steam exactly? As I understand the hydrogen and oxygen molecules are seperated in this state and as I mentioned in a previous post I am under the impression that it is highly combustible so it should be perfect to re-use as fuel - again!

Am I getting something wrong here?

-----------------------------------------------
-Nekar Xenos-
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on October 25, 2006, 08:26:48 PM
Hi Nekar-

 I believe superheated steam must be very hot in order for it to seperate into hydrogen and oxygen something like around 5,000 degrees - I forget exactly. If it isn't hot enough to be split into hydrogen and oxygen after its recombined in the cylinder it can still be recycled nevertheless back into the fuel water tank instead of out the exhaust - why not, huh? Another way though might be to take advantage of the efficiency of electrolysis of hot steam to make hydrogen and oxygen since it requires less power to do so than with regular temp electrolysis of water.
 Just some thoughts.

 Regarding the magdrive system, I agree with markaustralia where in the videos of the magdrive it doesn't appear to  produce anywhere near 4 lts/min. In any case magdrive could simply have measured the production properly instead of just speculating.
 Whats important though is the concept of the production while under some pressure in comparison to hydroxy gas production while under vacuum. Now that is interesting. Maybe hartiberlin can tell us about the increase in gas production he experienced while testing this idea?
 
 Hope magdrive will take up on the suggestion of showing a closed loop system. Using a small generator with its original fuel tank removed to demonstrate their claims would be nice since it was just too vague using their old ford pickup with shots of a fuel guage on empty.

Best,
 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: vincent68 on November 15, 2006, 08:13:17 PM
I don't get it. When I turn my car on water runs out of the exaust. Why would any more moisture make it rust?
Also I would like to run a generator, if it would never shut off, I don't see that it could rust.
Now check this link.

http://howto.wikia.com/wiki/Howto_inflate_a_balloon_with_hydrogen_having_water,_aluminium_and_sodium_hydroxide

It says aluminium and lye make HHO. Is this setup slowly eating the engine?

Thanks Vince
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pese on November 24, 2006, 07:05:39 PM


Some links to produce hydrogen on demand:

http://savefuel.ca/oxy-hydrogen/index.php  ++ make 50ltr oxyhydrogen/h (Car)
http://www.accagen.com/   ++ make 200atm hydrogas

-------------
very old link for JOEs Cell:

http://energy21.freeservers.com/orgone.html - Orgon, Joe?s cell
  = from 1995 !! Why not 2006 in working cars??????????? (GDP)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Alfang on December 17, 2006, 04:56:54 AM
Vincent   I agree with you, a running engine will wear out before it rusts out, and if rusting to death is their concern, big deal, create the process that works. let the engineers figure out how to make it rust proof.
If I had this process working, and i was going through an engine every couple months, or even weeks. I would not dilute it with gasoline for the sake of preventing rust.
If they are using gas for the sake of engine life, i gotta raise my hand and call BS. their system is not working as claimed
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on December 21, 2006, 02:11:20 AM
The combustion of Gasoline produces a lot of water and adding the water from the air as well .Thats why so much water from the tail pipe.

This is nothing compared to a full on HHO engine but there is still a lot water in the Gasoline combustion engine.

So it is not going to rust you car engine anymore than the air/gas mix in a Gasoline engine.
But in some cases , in some electrolyzers were caustics have been added to the water an engine will fall apart in a very short time do to rust.

Just wanted to say there are some people out there running full on HHO . They are still a bit scared to come to public  as of the horror
stories of back in the days when people got shot or poisoned for such a device. Others just don't have internet or don't care about others .
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 10, 2007, 08:02:26 AM
Well, yes, but they probably mix it somehow still with air !
In the video you can see the vacuum gauge meter and it still
displays around 17 to 22 PSI vacuum pressure when the motor
runs on pure HHO.
Maybe they still mix it inside the carburator with air..

Also from my own experiments I know, that a vacuum can pull
a lot more HHO gas from the electrolyser !

That is one trick to get much more gas out there !
Also they run it just WITHOUT a bubbler, which I find personaly is
pretty dangerous as they also use stainless steel for the container
and if their flashback arrestor does not work in any instance,
this will be a big bomb going off, but it seems
to be the only solution to be
able to pull the vacuum above the gas and thus produce a lot
more gas via the vacuuma and don?t use an expensive vacuum pump
for this...


If I start again experimenting with HHO gas production I would
rather go with a vacuum pump to produce a vacuum above the gas
and better use only plastic cylinders and only stainless steel mesh
inside the electrolyser and have a bubbler behind it for safety reasons...

But maybe someone from the forum can order such a unit for his car,
hey these are already available and only go between 170 and 300 US$ and
you can at least save 30 to 50 % fuel, if you go just for the booster version...

Unfortunately they only ship inside the USA, so I can not order it.

It would be good to see this fitted to an external 2000 Watts
powersupply motor-generator
combination and see, if this unit can power itsself and still power
a few incandescent lamps with it !

This would be a nice test, if someone could do this and would prove the overunity
factor in these devices !

Many thanks !

Regards, Stefan.

Hi All
I am going to let you guys in on a secret. It has to do with the phase diagram of water. Everyone knows that it takes less energy to boil water when you decrease the pressure, right? The same is true for electrolysis, what people seem to miss is vacuums also does work to the system. The work it does takes the energy needed to break water down and lowers it. If you do the math its a A, B, C, graph; A is at normal 1 atm before the engine starts, B is at engines idle vacuum atm's, and C is at engines max rpm vacuum atm's. As long as the engine is running it will never go to 1 atm. Trust me the math checks out just fine, no laws of physics are broken ;). The vacuums use just makes it way more efficient is all 8). I have a lot of secrets or new theories to the workings of these types of cells. If you look around no one has ever done electrolysis under a vacuum before, this is why the science guys don't know about this, for they are all book and not really able to think out of the box of the written text from their books. This should settle just where the extra energy is coming from. Plus water in my opinion is an over unity molecule, no other molecule can even come close to water is known to be able to do, the simple freezing of water defies logic. Everything else sinks when it is frozen in it's own liquid, ice floats in water. Occam's razor (also spelled Ockham's razor)  paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities. Water has shown us in more ways than one that it is capable of being in over unity. We just have to except what it(water) is trying to tell us ::).
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 10, 2007, 08:08:14 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention that the power going in is constant so as the energy requirements drop too produce the gases the energy used to break water down stays the same, in other words the greater the vacuum the greater the gas production. Sorry I left that out.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 01:09:00 AM
Here is the math of the process: at 1 ATM and 298K the energy requirments are;
W = PΔV = (101.30 x 10^3 Pa)(1.5 moles)(22.4 x 10^-3 m^3/mol)(298K/273K) = 3.715 KJ  (this is part A to B on the graph area under the curve)

At .2 ATM and 298k the energy requirments are;
W = PΔV = (20.260 x 10^3 Pa)(1.5 moles)(22.4 x 10^-3 m^3/mol)(298K/273K) = 0.7431 KJ ( this is B to C on the graph area under the curve)

At .1 ATM and 298k the energy requirments are;
W = PΔV = (10.130 x 10^3 Pa)(1.5 moles)(22.4 x 10^-3 m^3/mol)(298K/273K) = 0.3715 KJ (end of graph)
 
Notice the change in energy needed to break water down ???. And to think I figured this out all on my own ;D. Where are the big science guys ???, why hasn't anyone ever done this before ??? Why ???, because they are out trying to solve the mysteries of the Univers when we still have plenty of mysteries on earth that need our attention.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 02:43:47 AM
Well , First off the studies on the universe as you put it, has solved countless problems on earth.
It was the Scientist, Physicist, Mathematician that created the math your using here and
the process you are talking.

The excessive energy can be explain, not in thermodynamics of course but in nuclear physics.

And hold on to your hat, we have been doing vacuum electrolysis for a very long time.
Most of what you are talking about here is under study only to understand  the phenomenology
in the eyes of science. As more and more people understand these studies . You will see more and more devices.
That includes the "backyarders" digging up ever scrap they can from the internet.

Of course the market is determend by those that control the energy of this world. I am not even going to get into that.

I think your real question here is, Why has the technology that has been proved on the bench
never been marketed to the public.
Why is the the scientific data that I scarped of the internet all from 1970 (this does not include the backyarders of todays study )
Or "Who killed Cold Fusion"
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 08:34:16 AM
I'm 39 years old, not a young pup, but your right on a lot of what you said :D. Yes, I have read the vacuum electrolysis but they where looking to get deuterium D2O, not hydrogen and oxygen for use. They created some black stuff not yet identified. I am going too add to Faradays work with my some of my new theories.

It's good to talk to someone like you, someone who can see the limitations of the books. My friends and I are plaining on changing the world one engine at a time, plus I will go out and start taking people off the grid soon. My dream is to see a day that no one ever dies because they could not afford to turn on their AC or heater, and that the world be a better place for all that live in it, plus this technology will free mankind to explore far off places like Mars and beyond.

I have already made a phase diagram for the electrolysis of water, and it really takes off when you get close to the triple point. But what engine can do that? none that I know of. I am trying to solve all the unknowns of water, and have done a lot to advance science on this very special molecule.

Greed is the one reason why oil is still being wasted, we are just burning it up. How to combat the greedy, when they are so willing to put people to their deaths just to keep the black gold flowing? If you can answer that one I'd be eternally grateful. I know I might be disappeared or killed if I keep this up, but I think it's worth dieing for. What do you think? I am prepared to leave the country at a moments notice. For mankind to advance we need this technology.

Professor Hawkings is a nice man, and I love talking to him. If he says we are ready to take the next step then I belive him. But he also said it's too late to save the planet for we have done too much damage, even if we where to all out stop it will keep on warming until we have very little land to live on.

How will history view me? Not to sure of that, but that's for them to decide. I just want to do my part to help make a difference. Why take all this college just to sit on the knowledge is my thinking, after my time in the army losing some soldiers in this war on terror, I feel I owe it to them and too their families to get off of my butt and do something.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 05:48:39 PM
Its easier to explain my self with renderings. So I put this together today.
This just shows what I believe to be the best material/deign solution for HHO production
based on all of the test I have done through the years. If you want a crazy amount of  of Hydrogen Oxygen  this is a great way to get it.

The startup is about 30 amps here but as soon as it reaches 150F she settles down to around 1 to 5 amps. The temp is stabilized at 150*F using an automotive heater core.
If you want more then put around 20khz  on the backbone though you should not need to do this. Each system is unique so "around 20khz" meaning you need to adjust according to your build.

This is simple but expensive.

The rendering is depicting a fully operating system now fitted in a vehicle .
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 06:13:39 PM
I should add that the vehicle is not a car but a 40" RV with 120vac system.
If you use these materials in a 12vdc environment you will see much higher production
than stainless can produce ,If your cell is built to 12vdc specs.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Grumpy on February 13, 2007, 07:14:42 PM
shhh...
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 13, 2007, 10:09:16 PM
Quick questions for H2Opower

 Are you using any electrolytes?
Under a vacuum how do you protect from a backfire exploding the cell if you cannot use a water bubbler system?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 10:20:00 PM
Hi, I think this one will show up, I hope, had to re-render it. Your design is very nice, mines darn near bullit proof, plus a lot of maching went into the cell.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 10:26:36 PM
I don't worry about blow back, the cell is designed to withstand it. It's actually stronger than the engine with .322 inch walls made of 316 stainless. It's kind-of costly but very effective. I spent over $900 on this prototype, put over 70 hours in machining work, thank God I can do all the work myself :).
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 10:43:20 PM
Impressive design and machine work.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pese on February 13, 2007, 10:44:13 PM
weil es bekannt ist dass Autobatterien explodieren k?nnen , wenn man beim schnell-laden , mit feuer oder nur funken der elektrokabel spielt und dies nur auf den  erzeugten wasserstoff zur?ckf?hren kann , der bei zu starkem laden = ?ber 15 volt erzeugt wird .  Liegt es doch nur auf der Hand , dass man neue oder alte autobatterien auch zur HHO Produktion benutzen kann. (Wasser pur , Wasser mit S?ure , Wasser mit Pottasche ).  Schliessen Sie alle Zellen mit ?ffnungen zusammen an Gas-Ausgang und Wasserzugang .  5 Zellen f?r 12 Volt DV werden mehr Gas produzieren als 6 Zellen .  Dies ist nur ein Vorschlag .  Pese
-----------
because it admits is the fact that car batteries can explode , if one fast-loads this, and use with fire or only transmits  sparks on the electrical cables because the loading (bubbels)t produced hydrogen , if the  loads is stron and to fast  = over 15 V . It is nevertheless only obvious that one can use new or old car batteries also for the HHO production. (Water purely, water with acid, water with potash). Close all cells with openings together at gas exit and water-reservoir  entrance. 5 cells for 12 V of data processings will produce more gases than 6 cells. This is only one suggestion , i cant nothing say if it is enough to run an small or big motor. Possible some members will try it and post it here
 Pese
www.pese.150m.com/fe/
www.pese.150m.com/pat/
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 10:57:01 PM
This is my latest design, I will powder coat the surfaces with titainum or platinum. Platinum is the best, but it just too costly, so I started looking into electro plating it.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 11:01:45 PM
True and thats why you never start the reactor without the engine running first that creates your vacuum to remove the gas . The little bit that is in the hoses if exploded would not produce much more than a firecracker effect.

But I have built this unit to have a blow off lid with compression rubber seal. I did this because I have had a few pop when on the test bench. Also all internal parts are solid wielded rod and plate. The only wire connection is outside of the reactor.

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 13, 2007, 11:25:12 PM
Your use of titanium is very impressive that's second best only to platinum. Question why the use of silver? Silver reacts with oxygen to fast doesn't it. What have you seen in your models? They don't erode out? Well, we have a lot of work to do in getting all the cars on the road fitted with our models. The tubes I use are steel reinforced and not to badly priced. http://www.sisweb.com/vacuum/sis/steelhos.htm
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 13, 2007, 11:43:30 PM
Not using titanium , I am using tungsten.
The silver show some sign of pitting but it has not fallen apart yet.
The only other material I have found to replace the Silver is Nitronic
Stainless in the latest experiment.
So this next version will have some new ideas.
I have also found some Tungsten punched screen
 on the net I am inquiring about for the next system.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on February 14, 2007, 02:47:40 AM
So this is where you guys are hanging out. Very nice reading guys! i love the concept!
Just built my first reactor a week ago with some pointers from our Mr.Ironhead. And i must say it is a real beast! works very well After i scaled it down a bit. It still makes far more than is needed to run your family auto. I used high grade stainless the same thats used in nuke reactors for high pressure steam and tungsten. Since it is my first i have nothing to compare it to other that what videos I've seen on the net. But i can tell you this thing blows away any Joe cell video i have seen, I'll shut up now and let you pros have the floor again. Nice work guys! Much appreciated! Moab
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 15, 2007, 12:43:14 AM
Glad you enjoyed the configuration Moab.
You had to scale it down. Might I ask what
it would be used for in a seemingly small version?

Just curious


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 15, 2007, 09:07:55 PM
Hi everyone, Well I have come under attack from someone or someone(s) and my home computer is nolonger able to open this site. I have been getting multiple attacks of viruses sent at my computer, guess they didn't want me to keep giving secrets away. So heres a big secret on the Joe Cell and how it is able to work without being electronically connected. It has to do with the self ionozation of water, for even the purest water will make voltage on it's own in about 10 hours. This is to say that it will produce hydrogen and oxygen on it's own. Now when you charge the water this self production of gases increases, all one has to do is too draw it off with a vacuum great enough to overcome the vapor pressure of water. This vapor being drawn off will have a much higher percentage of hydrogen and oxygen being produced. How is this possable it's the hydronium ions, they can only exist in liquid water and not in water vapor. Charged water will maintain approx 1.4-1.5 volts by it's self for about 18hours to keep it charged one only needs to hook up a 9 v battery to the unit. For some reason if you hook it up to a 12 v battery( car battery) it will drain it bone dry. I think it has to due with current availabilty, the more it can take the more it will take, and it can't take much from a 9v battery. I hope the moderator reads this and looks into just who is attacking me. Now as an added bounse if you bring the negetive from the engine too the positive cell you get the magentic effect of oxygen because it is paramagentic. Make sure they don't touch or you will ground it out or sparks will fly, my new design incorparates this into it's design, on this page. They want a war now they got one. This is it everyone now all can take advantage of the secrets of water. Please pass on the word. And a safty note all of these types of cell or tanks need to be drained from time to time for they will build up D2O because for every gallon of water .015% of it is D2O and this will build up over time so just drain it off and the cells will keep working great, again my design has this already planed for. Again make sure you all pass this on, and someone please find out who is attacking me so I can take care of them. Bye for now h2o power............ ;)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on February 15, 2007, 09:47:18 PM
Glad you enjoyed the configuration Moab.
You had to scale it down. Might I ask what
it would be used for in a seemingly small version?

Just curious




Sure

The components I had on hand was 125 amp varyac and 500amp 100V DC full wave rectifier. (welding/plasma cutting supply's) Well as you can guess it was far too much :o ! So i obtained more suitable components to achieve what i was looking for. scaling down was the only option. 30amp varyac/ 120VDC full wave much better. Moab
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 16, 2007, 08:01:02 AM
Hi All-
 Here is a copy of a note from H2Opower- It's similar to what he has posted above. Seems he has some recent problems with an attack campaign against him. So lets pay attention to what he is trying to tell us. Here is his note-

 "HI, yes just water and it also helps to use h2o2 hydrogen peroxide. Well, this is a war I have been shut out of using this site from my compter and have had mulitpul attacks of viruses sent at me. Charged water is another key to getting it to work better, if you want to know I will now point you in the right direction. It has to do with the self ionzation of water, when water is charged a lot of the vapor given off is strait hydrogen and oxygen gas. One needs to make enough vacuum to pull off the water vapor and you will get lots of hydrogen and oxygen gas with it. That's the secert of the Joe cell that's why it will work even if it is not electrically connected. It has to do with hydronium ions, but that's getting deep into it. Some one has started a war on me because I have found out all the secrets. Please post this on the site for me as to tell other what I have found out, okay? Thx"
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 16, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
pg46
Tell H2opower
Its not a war on him . The forum just has a virus/trogen and to use Norton or other anti virus tool to remove it.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 17, 2007, 08:38:50 AM
Hi Ironhead-

 I passed on the word to H2opower. He says he is unable to log onto overunity.com at all now from his home computer??? I will pass on any info I get from him if he is still having some challenges.

 About your system - it's a pretty cool looking unit. How much gas does it produce anyways? Are you running a vehicle on HHO alone or as an addition to your gasoline system? How much did your cell plates cost? How much spacing do you have between the pates?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 17, 2007, 10:32:52 PM
I never really intended to publish this  so I have not done proper  gas volume test.

I test gas output by how well the engine runs and how much vaporized gasoline needs to be added.
So I have no numbers for you on this. This is all trial and error type work.
Thickness between plates id 1/8 inch .
The cost is very very high but soon to be lowered as the silver will be replaced with
Nitronic Stainless steel a very low iron content  stainless.
The tungsten alloy was around 200 $ from a local machine shop where I live.

The cell has run the engine alone but not a high throttle  and not as stable as it should be so vaporized gasoline is added.
The gasoline is first filtered through a coconut carbon filter then passed through 4 x 2 inch neodymium magnets .
Also some timing adjustments.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 17, 2007, 10:43:57 PM
Forgot to add that after gasoline goes through magnets it is heated  around 700F
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 18, 2007, 07:57:29 PM
Ironhead-

 Sounds like you have an interesting system there. I am hoping you are happy with your present fuel consumption then?
 I was curious - what does the coconut carbon filter do to your gasoline? or should I say - what is it that it is filterng out?
 I am betting that you aren't far off from soon running on a water-only based system.

Best Of Luck,
 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 20, 2007, 09:14:56 PM
Hi Everyone ;D, Well, my computer is nolonger able to get on this site. I don't know what they did to it, but it always says,"internet windows explorer can not open the site overunity.com." So, I have been blocked from my home pc's as to get on overunity.com :'(. For I can get on any where in the world but this site. I am at the college right now, for they can't kill all these computers ;). I gave some really big secerts in that big posting on page 6. Water for fuel is a reality, I like ironheads design, just need to put in one nutral coil to get the capacitor effect. Now in order to get vauums to do work just take a look at the vehicals vacuum brake assit drum. See how wide it is, this is needed to get the vacuum that the engine can produce to do work, that's why my unit is so wide @8.625" in diameter, 10-14 inches would do even better. Remember vacuum does two things for us; it lowers the energy of activation for the break down of water, this is the phase diagram of water electrolysis theory of mine, and pulls the water vapor pressure away, this is the hydronium theory of mine. The best place to hook up too an automobile's vacuum is the line going to the vacuum brake booster. This is the place where the vacuum is the best, and is why the brake booster is hook up to this exact spot. Now the units should also think of taking advantage of the paramagnetizim of oxygen, to do this you must bring the negetive to the device, the hose I use has steel in it that I can get too to do this easily. Just make sure to isolate it from the positive so you don't get a direct short. I use a rubber gasket and neoprine scews to do this. The math I gave can be used to determine the energy of activation of the water in your unquie envirenments that you created. For as long as the engine is running it will never go to 1 atm of pressure. Just find out how much vacuum your engine is pulling and put those numbers directly into the equations given. Make sure your in the same units and away you go :D. Hypower.com will be posting a video on Feb 28, 2007, of a VW GTI and some fords working on water alone, go to the site h2oforfuel.com to get a lot of good info on the use of water as a fuel. If anyone has any questions just e-mail me directly, I will try an answer them as best I can. For what I have put on for all to learn here is a way to be off of gasoline forever, Meyer's technology works! Note use bigger tubes minimum .626" in inside diameter, and don't forget to tie into the vacuum brake boost line. Zigarouas.racing will have a video out too in the very near future, and so will I ::). The hydrogen revolution has started what side are you going to be on? Siding with the oil & power genarating industries or with us ??? The time has come to take a stand, save yourself some money and clean up the air at the same time, that's it for now. God Bless and live well. Just me h20power........
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 22, 2007, 08:38:11 AM
Hi, Anyone think ultrasonic generator might help the spliting of water? I asked MagDrive about oher maker claims its necessary to heat the fuel and incease tire pressure or it will not ahieve the result. MagDrive did not answer the question but just said "you decide...don't compare apple with orange..."
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: helmut on February 22, 2007, 10:56:12 AM
I'm 39 years old, not a young pup, but your right on a lot of what you said :D. Yes, I have read the vacuum electrolysis but they where looking to get deuterium D2O, not hydrogen and oxygen for use. They created some black stuff not yet identified. I am going too add to Faradays work with my some of my new theories.

It's good to talk to someone like you, someone who can see the limitations of the books. My friends and I are plaining on changing the world one engine at a time, plus I will go out and start taking people off the grid soon. My dream is to see a day that no one ever dies because they could not afford to turn on their AC or heater, and that the world be a better place for all that live in it, plus this technology will free mankind to explore far off places like Mars and beyond.....

Greed is the one reason why oil is still being wasted, we are just burning it up. How to combat the greedy, when they are so willing to put people to their deaths just to keep the black gold flowing? If you can answer that one I'd be eternally grateful. I know I might be disappeared or killed if I keep this up, but I think it's worth dieing for. What do you think? I am prepared to leave the country at a moments notice. For mankind to advance we need this technology.

 I just want to do my part to help make a difference. Why take all this college just to sit on the knowledge is my thinking, after my time in the army losing some soldiers in this war on terror, I feel I owe it to them and too their families to get off of my butt and do something.

@h2O Power
I love reading your Words.
That worms me up and led me Hope.

Live can be so nice without politicians.

Helmut
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 22, 2007, 07:54:56 PM
I'm 39 years old, not a young pup, but your right on a lot of what you said :D. Yes, I have read the vacuum electrolysis but they where looking to get deuterium D2O, not hydrogen and oxygen for use. They created some black stuff not yet identified. I am going too add to Faradays work with my some of my new theories.

It's good to talk to someone like you, someone who can see the limitations of the books. My friends and I are plaining on changing the world one engine at a time, plus I will go out and start taking people off the grid soon. My dream is to see a day that no one ever dies because they could not afford to turn on their AC or heater, and that the world be a better place for all that live in it, plus this technology will free mankind to explore far off places like Mars and beyond.....

Greed is the one reason why oil is still being wasted, we are just burning it up. How to combat the greedy, when they are so willing to put people to their deaths just to keep the black gold flowing? If you can answer that one I'd be eternally grateful. I know I might be disappeared or killed if I keep this up, but I think it's worth dieing for. What do you think? I am prepared to leave the country at a moments notice. For mankind to advance we need this technology.

 I just want to do my part to help make a difference. Why take all this college just to sit on the knowledge is my thinking, after my time in the army losing some soldiers in this war on terror, I feel I owe it to them and too their families to get off of my butt and do something.

@h2O Power
I love reading your Words.
That worms me up and led me Hope.

Live can be so nice without politicians.

Helmut

HI All, Well if you look on page four(4) on this topic I put some numbers that can be used by anyone that wants to find out the effects of vacuum on electrolysis. I am working with four different theories trying to combine them for this will put you in overunity. The first is Valance electron theory, knowing that oxygen is paramagnetic we can use this to our advantage. The electrolysis unit must be have no magnetizim of it's own so try too use metals that are non-magnetic. The outer case should be postive and you bring the negetive of the engine too the electrolysis unit, make sure you isolate it so it doesn't ground out. This gives a path for the oxygen atoms to follow, just like a magnet they will go to the negetive that you brought over. If you look at my newest design you will see that the top cap is seperate from the rest, that is my negetive (page 5 or 6) The tubing used has steel inside that I was able to get too easly. Now the oxygen produced will go strait to the piston on it's own. Note the unit might have to been magnetically shielded. The Second theory is the phase diagram of water and it's relationship too electrolysis (vacuum theory) that's on page four(4) and was gone over very well. The Third theory is Myers voltage work theories, with his device voltage is set up in a way that it is doing the work and not the current of normal electrolysis go to waterforfuel.com for all of the information on his technology for they have advanced it some. And the fourth and last theory is the hydronium ion build up effect if the cell is set up to do the capacitor effect (charged water for short). When water builds up a charge it has been pushed out of it's normal equilibrium and the auto-ionozation of water has been push to new limits. You can test this for water that is charged will hold a voltage of 0.7-1.5volts on its own. (For safty it is not known if it can blow up like a capacitor can so take some precations.) Now since hydronium ions can not exist in waters vapor form when vapor is pulled off you get a some percentage of that vapor being hydrogen and oxygen gas. Hydronium ions will normally attach too 6-20 water molecules so for every 6-20 water molecules pulled off you will get two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom depending on how the hydronium ions attached to the water molecules.

I thought titainium was a good metal to use, I think I might be wrong on that one, I was doing some research on galvantic action and found out that titainium will get messes up by hydrogen and also why you should not use water that has flurine in it. The hydrogen will combine with the flurine to make HF and this pritty much puts a stop to the electrolysis process all you will end up getting is oxygen and hydrogenflurine gas. So, if your tap water or water source has flurine in it don't use it. It will make hydrogenflurine gas until all of the flurine has been used up. And anoter safty note, make sure to dump out the bottom of the tanks from time to time as it will build up D2O :-X since water natrually has D2O in it at about .015% per every gallon of water. For D2O is harder to break down than water is so it will be left behind, easyest way to test for D2O is too freeze the water in question and put the resulting ice in water if it sinks it D2O. I hope everyone passes on this information and puts it to good use and know it is I, h20power, that made up two of these theories numbers two and four ;).

And a last note if you feel you have something to add then do so :D for this is uncharted area here lots more to be found out I'm for sure. Lots of luck everyone take care and God Bless ;D.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on February 22, 2007, 08:22:49 PM
Now this is how to make gas!!!!!!!! ;)

Check out this site. WaterFuel1978 dot com

"If you look in our catalog or ebay ad, you can see the small cell is approx 2"
x 2"x 8". The water goes in one small end and gas comes out the other small end
(no water leaves the cell). The eight inches of length on the small cell is more
than enough to split 2.5 gallons per minute."   :o

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 23, 2007, 04:12:21 AM
 idnick

Couldn't find that website. How many amps does your system use? How much does the system cost?

 At 2.5 gallons per minute, do you mean it will produce around 10 lts gas/min ?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 23, 2007, 03:22:42 PM
Adding to the Intrigue and Mystery

  h2opower  -

I had sent you a couple more emails but 24 hrs later they were returned with a "permanent error" report basically saying that your email address doesn't exist.  :o  It worked well 2 days ago but whats up now? is your inbox too full or? Can you please post another contact email address? Have a look in your PM box.

Anyone else having trouble contacting h2opower via email or by any other method?

 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on February 23, 2007, 05:17:44 PM
pg46

It's not my system. The website is
waterfuel1978@yahoogroups.com  They are talking massive amounts of gas in seconds not minutes.

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on February 23, 2007, 09:33:28 PM
idnick -

Thanks for the link clarification. I see now that it's Zigouras Racing that makes the unit. If you told me that right away you would've saved me having to sign up at the yahoo forum and digging through 10,000 posts LOL!  :o Very, very interesting though and also a very large claim by these folks that they have laid out there for all to scrutinize. If it's even a quarter as good as they claim then it will be quite a hit for sure.
 I didn't yet see what the system requires for amperage etc.  but I'll very much look forward to hearing more from those guys.

Thanks For The Info!
 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 23, 2007, 09:47:19 PM
Hi Hdydrogen Revolutionarys ;D, To clarify when I said to use a bigger hose I ment the hoses being used are most of the time too small and that one should use a hose that is .625 inch in diameter or larger this is the place where I get the vacuum tubing with steel inside: http://www.sisweb.com/vacuum/sis/steelhos.htm the prices are not bad too. Now I am being told that my incoming emails are being blocked, seems someone has taken and interest in me, if I can find out who they are I will do the same in return 8). Remember what we are doing is converting engines to work on hydrogen and oxygen produced on demand. If all goes well I will start selling here where I live and others that I know will start selling in there states, remember the magdrive moto, "One car at a time." Also note we are not looking to fight others designs we are all looking to get the world free of oil wasting. For one day we will run out of oil, and it is needed to make high grade plastics and more, so we must stop just burning it up. Go to waterforfuel.com and do some reading on the reports they have found on hydrogen burning engines, it will save you a lot of waisted time and money if you read that report. Plus doing my studies I found that the 85% rule can be wrong as for we do not use just hydrogen alone, we keep the oxygen so we don't have to drag in massive amounts of air looking for it. For the air is mostly nitrogen and that can make some nitros gasses we don't want, but a simple water mist jet in the intake will take care of that. I have put out a lot of good information for the betterment of mankind. Do know that the guy in Austraila has the design for the future, he has out done us all. But his is for the automotive industry to use for a new head and head gasket has to be made, and that's not very practical for the millions of cars already on the road, that's where we come in, giving them a chance to run on water too ;), with add-ons. For now my focuse will be on the self ionization of water, the use of deferent metals, and trying to design the best type of electrolizer. Wait until I finish and test my latest design for the more I learn the better I can make the cells to match the breakdown carictoristic's of water. The newest cell should do very well going to use duplex stainless steel. Well take care all and keep up all the good work. God Bless just me h20power....... :)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 12:41:10 AM
Well said h20power.
I want to add as well even if those that are out there looking for a system to run on this new fuel and can not run full on HHO . Run anything you can to increase mpg and lower emissions. Even if it's a few percent  you got to start somewhere. Start here start now.

The MagDrive is a great bang for the buck if your not a builder. Its a good start. And with the new Pulse thing its even better

Or make something outa CPVC and some stainless  hook it up and run it.


Just Build It!

 IronHead

 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Grumpy on February 24, 2007, 05:24:07 AM
Quote
Just Build It!

nuff said...

EDIT:
Anyone having any knocking issues with this gas?  Hydrogen itself has a POS octane rating, but I suspect HHO is different.  CO gas, like from an aquafuel generator has an octane rating of like 120 - very sweet burn  - just a little toxic to breath :-)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 05:43:43 AM
So far all computer controlled cars will retard the timing ,no need to adjust.
Ping is from timing and flash point difference with new fuel mix.

Also disconnect Oxygen sensor or install a cut out switch and switch off when running HHO  .Computer gets fooled when  high oxygen is present.

If you have old non computer carb car then retard timing just a couple of degrees. This will have to be done by ear to stop any ping with high HHO production systems.

Now if you run pure hydrogen we are talking about 7 degrees and without the oxygen you will have a horsepower drop . But with HHO the Oxygen content will increase HP.

Just Build It
   IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Grumpy on February 24, 2007, 06:14:53 AM
Hmm.

My boat has a 454.  750mm carb (so-so heads won't take anything bigger).  Gas hog.  Lots of room under the engine cover.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 06:37:34 AM
There you go ,Electrolyze that bad boy. Do a big ass box system or something.

Anyone else out there?


Lets get some HHO systems running ,its so easy .



JUST BUILD IT
  IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 24, 2007, 06:46:38 PM
So far all computer controlled cars will retard the timing ,no need to adjust.
Ping is from timing and flash point difference with new fuel mix.

Also disconnect Oxygen sensor or install a cut out switch and switch off when running HHO  .Computer gets fooled when  high oxygen is present.

If you have old non computer carb car then retard timing just a couple of degrees. This will have to be done by ear to stop any ping with high HHO production systems.

Now if you run pure hydrogen we are talking about 7 degrees and without the oxygen you will have a horsepower drop . But with HHO the Oxygen content will increase HP.

Just Build It
   IronHead


IronHead,

When Oxy sensor is disconnected, will the computer put out a steady volume of injection? How do you regulate the volume of gas needed with various rpm?

thks
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 24, 2007, 07:19:31 PM
Let the engines vacuum take what it can from the cell. You need two lines from cell to engine. First line or low vacuum to the manifold, this is for idle .Second line  right into the intake throat between  the throttle body and the air cleaner. Angle the line toward the throttle body. On both lines you need check valves.

Make sure there are no vacuum leaks in you cell or anywhere else for that matter.

Always start engine first  and then turn on cell. Cell should always be under constant vacuum. When shutting engine off ,shut down cell first.
This stops HHO gas from building up in the intake plenum .
MagDrive has a full set of electronics to automate the starting and shutting down process. Simple relays, solenoids and such.

The vacuum and rpm sensors will tell the computer there is enough fuel present for a given RPM. The computer (ECM)will regulate the injectors pumping less gasoline to the cylinders. Now your burning a mix HHO , Gasoline ,and everything is happy.


Just Built IT
 IronHead
 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 25, 2007, 08:41:04 AM
IronHead,

Thanks fo explaining. I guess my point is: computer is designed without the HHO in picture. The lowest amount of gasoline it allows is more than it needs when HHO unit is installed. So the HHO device is not up to its potential without mmodifying the chip's program. Correct me if I am wrong. thks
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 25, 2007, 08:47:03 AM
IronHead,

Thanks for explaining. My point is the car chip was designed without HHO in mind. The lowest level of gasoline injected most likely is still too much with HHO. If my understanding is correct, the device is not up to the potential without chip reprograming.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 25, 2007, 05:40:01 PM
My point is ,the injectors will completely shut down  if no gasoline is needed to run the engine to maintain that rpm. I have watched this on a SnapOn analyzer a hundred times while engine is running.Thats with a big "Cell " and alot of HHO. If the HHO level is not high enough to maintaining rpm the injector will feed it some gasoline again maintaining rpm .This is all intermittent in milliseconds.

The computer has no idea what kind of fuel you are running.
All it knows is that the engine is running at this rpm and that vacuum.
The three main senors that tell the electronic monitor whats going on is throttle position,vacuum and rpms. All the other stuff is mainly for economy and emissions. This information is then sent to the controller side of the computer. The only thing the controller does is control the injectors, timing and in some systems the spark duration.

Lets look at why vacuum HHO works

First thing is ,you are not force feeding the engine HHO  (Gases are not under pressure) If you used something like Propane ( pressurized gas) and stick a tube into the intake throat ,open the gas valve to full .(not metered) gases would build up in the engine. The injectors will shut down trying to compensate.
.The timing will go crazy , the spark duration will max out  as the rpms climb to the detonation of the engine.

But we aint doin that. We have a system here that depends on the vacuum of the engine. The more the motor revs or is loaded the more HHO is produced (Because of vacuum) and drawn in. If you produced more HHO than vacuum ,Aint going to happen but if you did ,the negative vacuum would  go positive and you would have the same problem we had with the Propane statement..

HHO production is based on Cell design , supplied DC current and Vacuum.Vacuum is sort of a control of production like a throttle.

MagDrive makes the best HHO system available at the best price I have seen anywhere.

Just Build it
Buy it
Install it
Run it
  IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: fuelfromh2o on February 26, 2007, 03:36:38 AM
IronHead,
Excellent explanation concerning the call for HHO under vacuum. it was good to talk to you today, enjoyed the conversation. As I had mentioned we had a visitor from the New Energy Congress back on the 13th of Feb. He came up from Australia and spent a few days with us.
We took out the Dodge ram for a test drive or two with and with out the Magnum running for comparative analysis. First without it we got mileage in the upper 18-20mpg. After completing the run we refueled at the same location and duplicated the same trip again. After completing the trip the mileage increased according to Mark from NEC appx 3 mpg on the prototype. I personally was not at all satisfied with the results. So I looked into the situation and found a small problem which I corrected the following day. Unfortunately Mark had already left to return back to Australia. I ran the test anyway just to see if the problems had been corrected. "IT WAS",  the venturi tubes were incorrectly sized leading into the throttle body.
The mileage on the vehicles computer went from the 20 mpg average  up to 38.1 mpg at one point and leveled out in the 28mpg average area over all from the beginning including the entire trip from start to finish. The Dodge computer takes overall averages from the time its set until its reset once again, unfortunately it doesn't display actual fuel consumption at every instance that its operating. It takes the highest and the lowest numbers and runs a compiling average between them. Anyway I will be putting up an actual running flow test on the New Magnum HHO Series gen system very soon using a Dwyer VFA24 flow meter. The Magnum will be released to the public in early March for consumer use. There is an installation video available on our website www.fuelfromh2o.com for those who may be interested. Looking forward to your visit when you get out of the snow country.
Jim
MagDrive
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 26, 2007, 05:53:10 PM
Thanks Jim

To the rest of the world ..
The information above is enough to really start looking in to HHO as a fuel enhancer given very good MPG increases and from what I have experienced , much lower emissions.

So stop blaming the Government and relying on them to solve the problem.

Here is the solution.

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 27, 2007, 01:53:27 AM
IronHead, Again, thanks for explaining. I guess I just have to try it and see the result.

Jim/MagDrive, From your videos, seems all tubes you use are the same size correct? Do you have different sizes now after 2/13/07?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 27, 2007, 02:02:23 AM
I'll answer that for Jim. He does not come on here much  ,a very busy man indeed.

The casing tubes (Anode) :316 seamless Stainless steel are the same in diameter but different in length. The internal cathode plates are custom stamped for Magdrive.
And the new system being built  "Magnum" is basically 4 SuperGens put together in a single frame .Same tube here as well.
 This makes it much easier to replace using a common diameter if the cell was to get damaged.


Just Do IT
IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on February 27, 2007, 08:31:09 AM
IronHead,

You misundertood me. My question was about the sizes of the tubes into throttle body vs the one into intake. thks
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 27, 2007, 08:56:22 PM
Very nice job Ironhead, keeping up the good work of getting people to save money, when I have been band from this site from home. Note on hooking up looking for good constant vacuum, if your vehicle has a brake vacuum booster, that is the place where the vacuum is the best on your vehicle, for it was engineered that way, for safety reasons. Ironhead has gone all out on teaching everyone on getting off of gasoline and using less gasoline. So just build it, or buy a magdrive, it's a win win situation. Go to waterforfuel.com and get some very good info on electronics, from Myer's designs. I will be building some fuel replacement systems in about a month or two. Everyone please read this:  http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf and note what we are doing is a bit more than this for we are not just using hydrogen, we keep the two gasses together and that means we don't have to bring in lots of air looking for oxygen. For anyone just looking at these go back to page 4 and read on, a lot of information was given as too how all this works. This study should save anyone trying a lot of time on research since it is already been done. Again note that with the hho gas you get more power than stated for these types of set up's. It's over 85% for sure. The study also looks at problems with pre ignition and types of ignition systems that don't work with hydrogen well. I gather to stop all pre-ignition use a water fogger or mister in the intake chamber; this should solve all of these problems. Nice huh? Use water to solve water related problems, if you do have a turbo a water fogger is a must too keep the temps down.
Just one more day to see hypowerfuel.com's video on 'You Tube.' Now we will be able to see if the oil and power generating companies have started to ease up and let this technology out ;). For if they don't get blown up or all die to some unknown reasons we will know that it is safe to come out of the closet with this technology. Change is in the air almost all around the world, the Hydrogen Revolution has taken off. I want the Automotive industries of the world to know, you have nothing to fear, only a lot of savings in that you will not have to buy any fuel related products anymore, now that's a big savings is it not? So jump on the band wagon already, you have nothing to lose and lots to gain. Let us handle all of the cars already on the road in getting them converted over to using water as a fuel. I for one view you as a reluctant allies, but allies none the less so get with the program already >:(. Just me h20power....God Bless
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on February 27, 2007, 11:14:56 PM
Great to here from you and good luck on the project.

One thing I must point out. The Break booster is really just a reserve canister that holds vacuum to be used when engine is under accelerated or heavy load. Its vacuum is no higher than where it gets its vacuum from, the manifold. When the manifold vacuum drops do to load ,the booster check valve closes to maintain its vacuum. The highest vacuum is at the throttle body when vehicle is loaded or accelerated. The vacuum is only higher at the intake manifold "Plenum" when at idle.
This is why we use two lines with check valves. The highest value of the 2 will take over and vacuum out that line and what ever is attached to it.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on February 28, 2007, 09:49:18 PM
Hi everyone, Back too the brake booster. Where the brake booster gets its' vacuum is not the higheset source of vacuum, but the most constant source of vacuum. And for those who have cars with boosters the booster is a place to tape into at the manifold, but make sure the system stays sealed or you will lose your brake assistance of the booster. Now when I spoke of the hose that should be use(.625) I was talking about the delivery lines @0.625 or 5/8" minimum, and I gave a site to go to and buy some.

Hypowerfuel.com told me they have pushed the date of the video back too March 9, 2007, and says they are sorry for having to do so :'(. Their are making sure that they dot all the i's and cross all the t's so-to-speak.

Again anyone new to the readings go back too page 4 and read on.  8)

Make sure you do your homework and read what Ironhead and I have said and the information that we put out. I know now the way to do run an engine on water and it is so simple. In my post on this website I have shown clearly how to lower the energy of activation of the breakdown of water with pure science. And gave a very good explaination of how a "JOE CELL" works in the use of charged water. If everyone reading this information doesn't get off of using gasoline then he world is lost. For we are going to run out of oil, and the fight over the last cans of it will be a war that no one wants to be in. Do your part and help the earth's ability to maintain us. For when we finally do die off the earth will still be here even if we turn it into a second sun. So save some money and help the earth, the path has been laid out for you. Now it's up to you to do your part in this Hydrogen Revolution. Take care everyone and God Bless :)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: allcanadian on March 01, 2007, 07:50:00 AM
How about this?
If this 2H2O2 implodes then why not put a venturi device in your exhaust pipe to suck the exhaust out? use a spin chamber near the end of the exhaust pipe to act as a soft check valve, ignite hydroxy with spark plug just as exhaust valve opens.
Suction on exhaust is the same as a pressure on the intake.
Equal but opposite.
and no water/timing problems in the engine
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 01, 2007, 02:16:32 PM
Hi allcanadian

I don't understand the question, but I know the answer !!!

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: allcanadian on March 01, 2007, 03:22:07 PM
I think I was drunk when I wrote that! No it was 4:00 in the morning same thing.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 01, 2007, 04:28:51 PM
 ;D Know what ya mean allcanadian. I've been known to tilt a few myself  ;)

I couldn't help but smile when I read your post  :)  I think that if (we) nope, just you,had continued with this project you would have ended up with about 8 connecting rods that looked like horseshoes  ;D.  And thats the not the worse part.
I just can't bring myself to dawning a fire suit (like they do in nascar) every time I crawl in my truck.  :(
Nope. I think (we), no, you were on the verge of creating a Hi-way Hindenburg!!  ;D

Well back to the fridge for another Hamm's as well as back to the drawing board.  ::)

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 01, 2007, 05:27:54 PM
Forgot to mention, allcanadian, that all the parts and pieces could be recycled  ;D

That is, If you can find them  ::)

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: allcanadian on March 02, 2007, 07:23:48 AM
Hey idnick and anyone else.

I have not built a hydroxy generator yet but am going to very soon, honestly has anyone had actual experience with this and seen an actual implosion? I mean tested it
A few sites said it reaches a certain pressure once ignited then implodes and releasing static charge, is this real? am I wasting my time?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 02, 2007, 01:46:59 PM
Hi allcanadian

Yes I have built a generator 4 or 5 years ago and ran it off a battery charger. Biggest problem is the power supply. I ripped a couple of articles off the net for ya.
Sounds like the fellow in first article might have the answer. I don't belong to the group but it might be worth checking out if you are looking for a circuit.

  Electronics-Lab.com Community
  Recent Posts
21  Related to Electronics / High Voltage Stuff / Re: hydroxy gas power supply/separating oxygen and hydrogen from water on: March 01, 2007, 08:55:13 AM 
Started by steven - Last post by steven 
 :)heres a more simpler to make faster power supply for getting faster hydroxy gas output. before i shock yous i was given this little messy looking pototype  flyback driver which allso has a bottle capacitor some time ago  all i had to do was make the small tesla coil which its ment to power, but i never had the matierial for the coil so i threw it in my projects draw, soon after that i decided to  salvage the  irfp460 trannys from it which was used in place of the originals trannys which was in the circiut allso found on the net , so i decided to try it on my hydroxy gas generator but it dident go so i made a small modification now it goes faster than my other power supply dose , i ran a wire from the inductor which was originally ment to go to the flyback transformer , to the  positive output and it worked great and made gas faster than my other one ,  and even though its ment to run off a car battery which i reckon youll get better reactions ,i ran it from one of my small 12 volts lead acid cell batteries and i left the top off my hydroxy gas generator and it went so fast i though it was gona over flow with the water in it and bubles and mist , i posted this circiut some time back in the high voltage stuff section so it should still be there


"Does Brown's Gas implode ?"


Among the "wonderful" properties of "Brown's Gas" is that when ignited it doesn't explode, it implodes. That is, the reaction product has a smaller volume than the initial gas mixture. Is this true? Is it remarkable? The answers to these two questions are "Not exactly" and "No." Brown's Gas is that you get if you electrolyze water and keep the resulting hydrogen and oxygen mixed together. Let me make two important comments at this point. One is that it would be extremely hazardous to store any large quantity of Brown's Gas, either at atmospheric pressure or in compressed form. A spark, or the presence of any material which catalyzes the hydrogen/oxygen reaction, will cause a devastating explosion. The second comment is that all the energy which comes from burning Brown's Gas was put into it by the electrical energy used to electrolyze the water. In a loose sense, since Brown's Gas could be used as fuel for an engine and, since Brown's Gas is made from water, one could say that one was running a car on water. However, the power driving the car is coming entirely from the electrical input, not from the water. A car "driven" by Brown's Gas would either have to carry a large tank of compressed gas (see my point one) or drag a long power cord behind it. If you had electrical power available you would be much, much better off driving the car with an electric motor than fooling around with a gas generator and a gas powered motor.
   So does Brown's Gas explode? Yes, of course it does. As it happens, in my foolhardy youth I once filled a polyethylene bag with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen and lit it from a safe distance. It exploded very satisfactorily and made a very loud boom. Many of NASA's rockets, including the Space Shuttle, burn hydrogen and oxygen. If Brown's Gas always imploded, the rockets would be sucked into the ground.

What you may have seen, and I have seen, is some Brown's Gas being put into a cylinder and then being ignited. The piston in the cylinder is sucked in with a thump. However, if the piston was free to move outwards it would fly across the room. Brown's Gas would be great in spud guns. When ignited, Brown's Gas explodes, that is it burns rapidly, generating hot, high pressure gas, in this case, water vapor. Because it is inside a long, narrow, room temperature cylinder the water vapor rapidly condenses into liquid water, heating the cylinder as it does so. Since the water has much less volume than the hot vapor the pressure inside the cylinder drops suddenly, pulling in the piston. The cylinder heats up in the process, the heat energy from the burning Brown's Gas has to go somewhere. If the experiment were to be repeated, for example in a continuously operating engine, the cylinder would get hotter and hotter and eventually the internal pressure would blow it apart. So the answers are: Does Brown's Gas implode? No, Brown's Gas explodes like any other combustible gas mixture. Is this remarkable? No, except that in this case the combustion product, water, readily condenses to a liquid.

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: allcanadian on March 02, 2007, 03:11:36 PM
thanks for the info idnick
I found some pretty good web sites by searching Browns Gas Generator.
I think there are so many bizarre effects that I just have to build one of these things. Here is something i don't get--yet

electricity + water = HHO
HHO + ignition =  electricity + water  Or

HHO + ignition = suction + electricity + water
HHO + air + ignition= hot expansion + electricity + water

supposedly you can pull a perfect vacuum and recover 70% of the electrical charge you initially put into the gas. Or you can mix the gas with air and burn it against a piece of iron and get heat + electricity + water.
So if this is true you could produce a cooling effect (suction ) or a heating effect(pressure) and still get 70% ot the electricity back, as static charge I imagine.

As well it is said on most web sites that the gas burns at different temperatures with different metals and remediates radioactivity.
When I read this It becomes apparent that the gas reacts on the atomic level. Converting atomic mass to heat, I think my first test will be burning aluminum then tungsten in a bomb calorimeter, and measure the heat rise, then measure the mass of what left the sample.

This could be interesting, it's all fun until it blows up in my face.



Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Gearhead on March 03, 2007, 12:13:36 AM

As well it is said on most web sites that the gas burns at different temperatures with different metals and remediates radioactivity.
When I read this It becomes apparent that the gas reacts on the atomic level. Converting atomic mass to heat,


I have a theory about this.  If you check out Naudin's site under MAHG, monatomic hydrogen, you will see that he has experimented with greater than 10 X COP.

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/index.htm

I think that is what we are seeing with this particular type of electrolysis of water.  Probably this is a reaction on the atomic level.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 03, 2007, 02:03:26 AM
Looks much different than the one i built.. i can see a few days in the machine shop in my future. Im going to collect all drawings from this thread and plan a build. do you guys have any more plans/ Pics to share??

                                                                Thanks ,, Moab
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: fuelfromh2o on March 03, 2007, 03:36:16 AM
The following was made by a poster on this thread page 9 bottom.
"if your vehicle has a brake vacuum booster, that is the place where the vacuum is the best on your vehicle, for it was engineered that way, for safety reasons."
That quote was for connecting the HHO output to the intake manifold or where to tie in for superior vacuum.
ABSOLUTELY NOT, NEVER, DON'T, WRONG, BIG PROBLEMS ETC.
Never connect it there, HHO when released expands and being 2 parts hydrogen it reacts differently than regular air under vacuum. Your brakes will actually fail from the HHO being allowed to enter the brake booster chamber not even considering the explosive problems if a backfire was to happen and traveled to the brake booster chamber. Once you release that brake pedal there is a very strong tendency for the HHO to migrate into the power brake booster.
The safest way is to connect directly to the intake manifold, or if you must tee into another vacuum line place a liquid/flashback check valve into the connection tee to protect the other item that is connected with the HHO intake hose or tube with flashback protection.
You must, and I repeat "MUST"  provide any and all protection to any other vacuum items that use the intake vacuum of an engine when introducing HHO through a common connection.
MagDrive
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pese on March 03, 2007, 08:26:00 PM
I find this in another forum:

only copied ( is not my own work !!)
Pese

Hi Guys

Here is my first attempt at a series plate electrolyzer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdyaNmRtUto

I am using about 2 liters of straight tap water with 10 grams of
Sodium Hydroxide.

I have read it in Eagle Research's Hyzor Teck handbook that series
plate electrolyzers are much more efficient than parallel plate
electrolyzers.

So I built one to see the difference.

My current prototype is definitely more efficient than the previous
parallel plate prototype.

I have observed these advantages after 12 hours of running;

? No sludge build up.
? Takes 3 times longer to heat up.
? Less power wasted for heat production.
? No overheating to boiling temperatures.
? Almost no steam production.
? Consequently much lower water usage. (~0.15L/h)
? Higher gas production per Wattage. (more efficient)
? Easier construction.
? No need to interconnect alternating plates.

It seams that the series cell electrolyzer is a much better approach
to HydrOxy generation.

Thanks for your attention.

Has anyone installed one of these in a car and had significant
mileage improvements?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 03, 2007, 09:50:41 PM
Hey pese

The production is good for the size of this cell.
Production is not as much as you would see from
a tungsten cell, 5 times higher maybe from a single
Negative 1/8" Tungsten welding rod and single Positive
1/8" Nitronic Stainless rod.

But for stainless its good. Now pulse it and see what happens.
As far as the temps go  , that is very good.
This must be made much larger to use in your car as a fuel enhancer.
Build a bigger one and run it. Maybe 4 times the plate size in the video.
Also if you run it in a car , hook it up the way I have shown on page 9.
This is also the way a Magdrive is hooked up.
Do not share lines with break booster, vacuum canister or accumulator.


Just Build It
     IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 03, 2007, 10:17:02 PM

As well it is said on most web sites that the gas burns at different temperatures with different metals and remediates radioactivity.
When I read this It becomes apparent that the gas reacts on the atomic level. Converting atomic mass to heat,


I have a theory about this.  If you check out Naudin's site under MAHG, monatomic hydrogen, you will see that he has experimented with greater than 10 X COP.

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/index.htm

I think that is what we are seeing with this particular type of electrolysis of water.  Probably this is a reaction on the atomic level.


This device is not a standard electrolyzer for producing HHO.
This device is used to study the phenomenon of excess heat in a Cold Fusion reactor and thats what you are looking at ,a type of Cold Fusion reactor. Also known as Plasma Electrolyzer
Here is a video of the one I made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTQW2pH2Oc
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pese on March 04, 2007, 12:07:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhm0ozrpHJ8&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oRbrF6Y76s&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HWlx--tQbA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1MSZCuaVAY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8WCihrG2I&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxQI3qoJAXo&mode=related&search=   !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXFgNWIBZHA&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wOd7qlrSRk&mode=related&search=  brown gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QapY-I8tJJI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPPvx--xbGM&mode=related&search=  cheap ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZllEFERJBXc&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9-mMV6dt2o&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si4NcbxpOWI&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcy3JbGjQwo&mode=related&search=  Stan Meyer - hydrogen oxygen ( HHO ) - Zero Point Energy


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 04, 2007, 03:54:04 AM
pese

Already got my ass chewed out by my ISP. If I downloaded all the you tube links you posted I'd be off line.  56k isn't the fastest ya know.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 05, 2007, 05:41:32 PM
Ok guys
I did not want to remove my cell mounted in my vehicle.
So I made for your viewing pleasure , a benchtop version of my
Tungsten and Nitronic Stainless steel HHO cell.
90VDC at 0.2 amps , optimal temp is 160F degrees.
The full system posted on page 5 to run an engine must be cooled to 150 -160F
or it will boil within 1 minute .

A tiny download for you 56k ers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnIJyNmI33U

Just Build It
 IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 05, 2007, 05:54:02 PM
WOW!!!  :o That is one bubbley mother  ;) Kewl

How much gas that put out anyway??

Dave
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 01:11:18 AM
To much to be safe , you would not want this to go boom. Although I have made a few balloons that do <·._.·´¯`· BANG ·´¯`·._.·>

I just built this to show the materials and  there work.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: kydrogen on March 06, 2007, 01:20:27 AM
Just ordered a unit from Magdrive.  Will hook it up to my small genset and see how it goes.  Will post info as I go along. 

Here is what I ordered.

Series9 "Hydro"Gen? $289.95 [Auto Fill Model][3.1L - 4.3L engines]
I'll tap it into my Briggs and Stratton Generator (I think it's a 9 horsepower gasser).  Will  use a 12 volt car battery that I will purchase at Pepboys.  Will keep the battery charged with a portable charger that I will of course plug into the generator.

Wish me luck.

Ironhead that video blew me away.  Please post pics of the unit in your vehicle.

Peace.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on March 06, 2007, 12:17:01 PM
Ironhead - you're a real riot!   :D what a cool little productive unit you have there - I love it! Many thanks for the video.
 Are you really only drawing 0.2 amps! very nice if so. Say, I hope you can give us some gas production volumes sometime if you get a chance. I know its a pain in the ass but would be real interesting to see what you get per amp of current.
 Was  wondering why you are using 96 volts anyways? is this because it's rectified from your 120VAC system then? What would it do do you think if connected to only 12 VDC?
 Have you given up on using the silver plate altogether  then and replaced it with the nitronic stainless?

Look forward to Hearing more and Thanks
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 09:15:28 PM
Just ordered a unit from Magdrive.  Will hook it up to my small genset and see how it goes.  Will post info as I go along. 

Here is what I ordered.

Series9 "Hydro"Gen© $289.95 [Auto Fill Model][3.1L - 4.3L engines]
I'll tap it into my Briggs and Stratton Generator (I think it's a 9 horsepower gasser).  Will  use a 12 volt car battery that I will purchase at Pepboys.  Will keep the battery charged with a portable charger that I will of course plug into the generator.



Wish me luck.

Ironhead that video blew me away.  Please post pics of the unit in your vehicle.


Peace.

Wow
A series 9 Magdrive for a 9 hp generator. Man you got to post that once setup.
Make sure you keep a freq meter on there to monitor any fluctuations.You might need to find a way to govern the MagDrive for this use.

Also I will be taking out the unit in my vehicle and changing out the silver  "as its falling apart" and installing the Nitronic . I will do a video & pics on the process.


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 09:35:53 PM
Ironhead - you're a real riot!   :D what a cool little productive unit you have there - I love it! Many thanks for the video.
 Are you really only drawing 0.2 amps! very nice if so. Say, I hope you can give us some gas production volumes sometime if you get a chance. I know its a pain in the ass but would be real interesting to see what you get per amp of current.
 Was  wondering why you are using 96 volts anyways? is this because it's rectified from your 120VAC system then? What would it do do you think if connected to only 12 VDC?
 Have you given up on using the silver plate altogether  then and replaced it with the nitronic stainless?

Look forward to Hearing more and Thanks


Yes ,this one started off in dead water at 10 amps and dropped to 0.2 - 0.4amps  once it hit 150F ,and really starts to vibrate at about 120F.
Yes it is rectified AC  makes it easier then to put a bunch of batteries together.
The vehicle version runs the same way but is larger and at a different pulse. All cells require dialing the pulse at a specific temperature  for that cell and its makeup.

These systems are not designed at 12VDC and do little. Maybe the next will be 20,000 volts and .00001Ma  ya never know.Maybe a mechanical rotating spark gap. STOP ..been reading this forum to much ..next>
Yes, I have scrapped the silver for recycling to another project and am replacing with Nitronic.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnIJyNmI33U


Just Build It
 IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 06, 2007, 10:17:29 PM
Do you see why i had to scale down? 500 amps was way too much! and i wasnt useing welding rods i was useing 4'' ID stainless and and T1 plate which i rolled to 3 3/4'' and the tubes was 24'' long. I put them in a 7 gallon bucked just to try it out and when i hit the switch on the welder, ( thats where i got my 500 amp 120Hz 100V DC from) after about 45 seconds All the water jumped right out of the bucket! It is now powered by an old lincolin tig machine 100Amp high freq 100 Vdc and its a real beast ! ;)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 10:44:35 PM
You my good friend are very scary , They're going to make a movie about you someday.
Right in the middle of the hole that use to be the county you live in.

You wanted big HHO  you got it ! along with a hell of alot of heat with 500 amps.
Glad to see you are still here!
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 06, 2007, 11:24:22 PM
Well well, so most of you think you now gas laws, gas flow is in what direction. Someone anyone tell me the direction of gas flow. For no matter where you hook up the line into the intake manifold when the brake booster need negetive air pressure it is going to take air from another source. Not the intake manifold that air goes the wrong way, for all gases flow towards the pistons not the other way around. I am really done talking to most of you for most of you are all talk. Good fellows like Ironhead for example are doing not just blowing hot air from their mouths. If you can't get it to work with what we have put on this site then you never will be able to do it. So for the masses, as it seems, just wait until the units are for sale and you can buy one and have it installed for you wont be able to do that aswell, or just go on buying gasoline and pretend that the world is flat. That seems to work for most of what I see coming out of the mouths of people, they belive the world is flat and are willing to kill others that say it is not. It will not fill up the brake booster with hydrogen and oxygen that is being produced, the gas flow is in the opposite direction, and there is a one way valve to keep it going in the right direction! >:(. Too many stupids running around with degrees now days.

Now that I have solved the "Joe Cell," I will move on too Myer's work and help solve the problems they are having getting it running right. I already have the solution just need to figure how to implement it.

Keep up the good work Ironhead, pg46, pesse, and the rest of the good fellows, as for the rest of you never forget to do your home work.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 06, 2007, 11:36:13 PM
Umm , Let me say that Jim aka "fuelfromh2o"  "The guy the owns MagDrive" did test this in real life and found HHO in a break booster  some time back when it was hooked up that way.
 This is why he posted what he did . We don't know why HHO will migrate to systems it should not have gotten into ,but it does if not hooked up correctly.It could be do to the pulse backdraft idea shuttering past a check valve. I have also found that it is possible for Hydrogen to permeate materials in some cases.This can happen in those little nooks and crannies that like to vapor lock.

'
As far as real life experience "fuelfromh2o"  has been servicing and selling working HHO systems for some time now.

Thank you
 IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 07, 2007, 12:05:05 AM
The only way that can happen is if the oneway valve going too the brake booster is not working correctly and need to be replaced or if they tie in behind the oneway valve going to the brake booster now that's not a good idea. A simple test to make sure the brake boosters oneway valve is working correctly is too unhook the line from the manifold after the engine has been running and then unhook from the booster. If there is no vacuum then the oneway valve is bad, and too if you hear leaking of air going too the booster after the line was removed from the manifold it needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 07, 2007, 12:05:27 AM
Let me rephrase this, DUDE ITS OK FOR YOU TO DO IT.
You dont want people doing it that way if there is a failure , get it?

Everyone else that is not a master mechanic or have an installed HHO system  don't hook to break booster period!



Here is a close up for yaz, yup I am shaking abit . This is a lot of HHO in a glass bottle with alligator clips in the zone , DON'T DO THIS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoEXaNnBRPo
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 07, 2007, 12:55:00 AM
 ;D Now thats sweet, great gas production Ironhead. How many amp you using? I am now making the electronics and a new Myer's type cell. The EDS cell (Joe cell) is just about done, getting great results with it. Lost of charged water that is holding a charge for more than 36 hours of .34 volts. @ .76 volts at 24 hours. It only takes .2-1.06 amps to run the cell so I will leave it hook up. I shocked the crap out of me when I just reached in and grabed the tubes, just like a capcitor, it released it's charge all at onece and was over quickly, thank God. The Myer's type cell is very different in the way it needs to be constructed, plus the electronics should only take 100m-6max amps to produce large amounts of gas with no salts of any kind added to the water. Salts added to this kind of set up just messes the whole thing up. When I am done I will hook them both up to engines, so it will be a two cell system. Magdrive has a four cell that's doing great things, and this two cell will do so as well ;).
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 07, 2007, 03:53:31 AM
Here is another Ironhead style glass HHO test run, Pure tap water nothing addad. 1/8'' rods left Pure stainless right Pure tungston. Full wave bridge 109V/35A DC. Water temp was from 150-180F during the run. Best temp is between 140-170*F Start amps 1.6 from room temp-150F .06amp after. In the vid the water is a little to hot but you get the idea. Ironhead knows his stuff. Once you get to 140* things heat up real fast. A cooling devise would be needed for extended runs. Still for the amps the best HHO for the money. yes its HHO and it dose pop!
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on March 07, 2007, 06:41:28 AM
Hi Moab,
are you sure, it is HHO gas coming out and not just steam ?
Maybe the water is just boiling ?

It reminds me a lot of water experiments I did,
when I used 2 Tungsten rods in Water with K2CO3
added...
Without the K2CO3 it would have looked like this.
But then the bubbles were only steam, like cooking and boiling water
generates bubbles..

2. There is a video on Youtube from the same
poster SGIHUNTER ( Is this our user Ironhead ?)

That shows an amazing cold fusion arc under water and claims
overunity heat output.
Have a look at this, it is said to need only about 12 Watts input:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTQW2pH2Oc


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on March 07, 2007, 07:11:03 AM
Okay, I should probably move this topic to a different thread,
but as it seems to come from user Ironhead I let it stay here for a while
now.
Here is another video of the cold fusion arc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RICa4OW38bI

He says in the desciption:

A closeup video of the hydrogen plasma surrounding the tungsten cathode in a plasma electrolysis cell. Basically it's the surface of the sun in a beaker.

With about 150 volts DC applied to aquious sodium chloride elecrolyte through tungsten electrodes. The cathode is made to have a much smaller surface area than the anode so that the hydrogen produced on it surrounds it and forces the current to arc through it, turning it into plasma.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: otto on March 07, 2007, 07:38:06 AM
Hello all,
Stefan,

I worked a long time  with this stuff. I can say yes, its overunity heat output and yes, it is hydrogen that you get but the problm is that with the arc you split the H2O but as the bubbles travells through the water they combine again to H2O and so you have not so much hydrogen.
Maybe if we could change the frequency of the arc....

Otto

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on March 07, 2007, 08:11:48 AM
Hi Otto and all,
if this just could be used as an overunity heating system for the winter,
that would be great ! Just with 12 Watts input a several orders more Watts heat output !
That would be really great !
I hope the inventor comes forward and tell us the exact setup
and the circuit he used to power it.
Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 07, 2007, 10:11:46 AM
HI all
Hello Stefan

I like Ironheads video better, it has music,  ;D.
I wonder if the high DC voltage is a part of voltage work theory ???, seems like it. That's why stanley Myer's invention works, sweet deal.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: otto on March 07, 2007, 01:00:50 PM
Hello Stefan,

yes that was my idea too and so I made such a system last year in my house but had to disconnect everything because winter was comming... so far I can say is that such a heating looks very promising but I had not the time to test everything.
My idea was to heat my water with a plate heat exchanger and this was a good idea but there are a lot of problems and as I sayd no time before winter to solve this problems. I wanted to continue this year but Im working on the TPU....

Otto
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: idnick on March 07, 2007, 05:07:54 PM
Hello all,
Stefan,

I worked a long time  with this stuff. I can say yes, its overunity heat output and yes, it is hydrogen that you get but the problm is that with the arc you split the H2O but as the bubbles travells through the water they combine again to H2O and so you have not so much hydrogen.
Maybe if we could change the frequency of the arc....

Otto


Maybe use vacuum on the system??  ??? Just might work  :)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 07, 2007, 08:45:32 PM
Why are there so few views of this video? Stan explains how to split the water molecule in detail. there are a few more on google video,watch them and pay attention! ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRXlm5AO9mY&mode=related&search=

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 08, 2007, 12:04:10 AM
Ok guys you are looking at 2 different system on my Youtube page SGiHunter.
The plasma heater for heat and the HHO system.

The HHO system is Hydrogen Oxygen production at 150F degrees 90VDC
It must stay at this temp or it will  steam very fast so it must be cooled with radiator. This is why I am running the bench system for a shot time . If I ran it longer you would see steam billow " A hell of a lot in a very short time" from the canister.

So what you are seeing is a dirty quick build bench top version of the system I run in my vehicle.That system design is on page 5 . I will soon be removing this system from my vehicle ,to remove and replace the Silver with Nitronic as the Silver is breaking down .
Do not use Tungsten in this system on the oxygen side, It will dissolve.

People are asking me how much gas is produced .I am no scientist I build what works for a given application. So this system on "page 5" produces enough for what I need it to do , get more bang for the buck on a big block 454ci engine.

BTW "Moab"great job you are on the top of my list of just do-ers . The "Just done it" list as it were.
You did it with out a zillion question about this that and the other scientific blah blah. Keep up the good builds

This is a very complicated system to run in a vehicle.
If you want something easy and that is proven ,buy a MagDrive


Just Build It
 just do it!

IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 08, 2007, 12:40:28 AM
Ok now,
The cold fusion plasma system.
One 1/8 tungsten welding rod (Green Tip)
One 100 micron 316L stainless steel Paint sprayer Graco filter mesh 1"Dia  x 4"long.Make sure the rod is right in the center of the screen tube.Make all connection solid and arc outside the water will go BOOM.
Now on the Tungsten you must cover with Teflon(Good for last hours) or coat in ceramic (Prefered last for months) all of the rod except for about 1/2" at the tip arc end.
120AC rectified  and non smoothed. You get about 118vdc 120hz.Start up is 30 amps  final at high temp is from 1.0 to 0.1amps

This is a good start.
Now you will not see a reaction in this till you hear it start to vibrate at about 130*F
At 150F to 160F you will get your arc .This can take from 10 min to 1 hour depending on your water. Adding abit of baking soda will help but will also raise start up amps.
baking soda also reduces Magnetite.

This type of system has run for months ( Rod adjustment weekly)before rebuild using a radiator to keep temps at bay.150F to 200F  do not let it go below 150 as it will become unstable.


If you can move this thread for me "hartiberlin" from page 5 on.
I will tell yaz about Feqs for both system not everything but enough for you to see and BANG--BOOM for yourselfs. Just don"t hurts yourselfs , I dont need that on my poor fragile mind

Just Build It
IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: otto on March 08, 2007, 07:39:03 AM
Hello all,
IronHead,
I was working a lot with this cold fusion system and as I can say its OK BUT there is a big problem: the tungsten welding rod is consumed!!! This means that the welding rod is thinner and thinner and in 1 hour work you can clearly see the rod is thinner.

Of course there MUST be baking soda in the water or and the vibrations are really loud and of course you can see it.

A warning: the water is boiling.

About the system on page 5. Maybe you could make a drawing with the dimensoins, if not asked too much??

Otto
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 08, 2007, 12:36:06 PM
Hello all,
IronHead,
I was working a lot with this cold fusion system and as I can say its OK BUT there is a big problem: the tungsten welding rod is consumed!!! This means that the welding rod is thinner and thinner and in 1 hour work you can clearly see the rod is thinner.

Of course there MUST be baking soda in the water or and the vibrations are really loud and of course you can see it.

A warning: the water is boiling.

About the system on page 5. Maybe you could make a drawing with the dimensoins, if not asked too much??

Otto
For the  CF Plasma Cell
Your arc was to hot . I will post pics of a rod that ran for 30 hours straight using the method im am using. Notice the reaction in my cell is not white hot.
Also this is a  circulatory heater and is not to be run constantly. I will explain this further,ether when the post is moved or when I start a new one .




IronHead



Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 08, 2007, 07:44:24 PM
Sorry to hyjack the thread again. I built a little honey i'd like you to check out. Not sure if it makes enough gas to do much. And yes stephan it is HHO see the vid.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 08, 2007, 10:14:46 PM
Nice work Moab .Thanks for showing the high voltage system producing HHO in a nice direct way.

These post need to be moved


Just build it
   IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: Moab on March 08, 2007, 11:25:06 PM
Yes, by all means Ironhead!!

I misbuilt it though, The next outer housing tube will have two 1'' waterways for cooling, One at the top and one at the bottom. And the reactor vessel will be in the center. same as this one. These get hot real quick so cooling is absoultely nessassary. Also the PVC parts are replaced with stainless. It is wonderful to have a fab shop at your disposel!!

I am just now starting to understand it. H2oPower feel free to jump in anytime. I am sure you have a lot of knowlage to contribute. Its Voltage not amprage, and around 22Khz pulsed. Were just scratching the surface of HHO production doing it 12V 15 amps. The next thing about amprage is wear and tare on your alternator. Lets say you have 3 cells each pulling 15 amps. And now you have enough HHO to really do somthing. you have another problem. Your going to use up any gain from fule savings by turning an alternator that can handle a constant 45amp draw. So whay  bother? All of this is well known. High voltage involves more electronics and building ability from the back yarder, but is far superior in HHO production. so, I propose along with Ironhead a seprate thread that deals with this method of HHO genoraition. And since it can be easly configured to make heat maybe sub thread for that purpose. Just my .02
  Moab
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: fuelfromh2o on March 08, 2007, 11:50:00 PM
Concerning the brake booster vacuum connection, hydrogen can and "WILL"  permeate past the check valve and enter the booster chamber. The best of liquid/gas flashback check valves designed for gases
will permit seepage at one point or another. A simple mass produced check valve will not stop hydrogen leakage or bypass. Hydrogen can even find its way through lined natural rubber tubing or hose or any simple clamped hose connection.  Even threaded fittings must be tapered for compression and sealing, hydrogen can actually follow up the threads and escape if they aren't. Every connection no matter how small needs to be sealed completely using a compression fitting cut thread or a good sealant.
keep in mind, when you let off of the accelerator the vacuum immediately drops off on the engine. With that drop in vacuum and using the power brakes that check valve will "NOT"  block the hydrogen from accessing the booster because the HHO cell works in a positive pressure environment once vacuum is removed. The booster valve isn't designed for that type of gas and the booster valve tolerances and valve reaction time is way to slow.
So don't go blasting like in your previous post that people here on this forum don't have a clue or they are somewhat stupid or dense.
MagDrive FuelfromH2o
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 09, 2007, 12:36:56 AM
High voltage HHO system by IronHead has been moved to.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.new.html#new

Plasma Electrolysis or some call Cold Fusion reactor has been moved to this thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2058.0.html

DO NOT POST ABOUT THESE 2 SUBJECTS ON THIS "MagDrive" THREAD any more
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 09, 2007, 02:18:53 AM
Concerning the brake booster vacuum connection, hydrogen can and "WILL"  permeate past the check valve and enter the booster chamber. The best of liquid/gas flashback check valves designed for gases
will permit seepage at one point or another. A simple mass produced check valve will not stop hydrogen leakage or bypass. Hydrogen can even find its way through lined natural rubber tubing or hose or any simple clamped hose connection.  Even threaded fittings must be tapered for compression and sealing, hydrogen can actually follow up the threads and escape if they aren't. Every connection no matter how small needs to be sealed completely using a compression fitting cut thread or a good sealant.
keep in mind, when you let off of the accelerator the vacuum immediately drops off on the engine. With that drop in vacuum and using the power brakes that check valve will "NOT"  block the hydrogen from accessing the booster because the HHO cell works in a positive pressure environment once vacuum is removed. The booster valve isn't designed for that type of gas and the booster valve tolerances and valve reaction time is way to slow.
So don't go blasting like in your previous post that people here on this forum don't have a clue or they are somewhat stupid or dense.
MagDrive FuelfromH2o


Okay, you have a point there, but so did I. So what you are saying is that the oneway valves on the cars need to be changed out, that makes since. Hydrogen is the smallest of all the atoms and can get throght just about anything given time to do so. Hydrogen also disperses very fast, with that being said no matter where you put it in the intake manifold it is going to get into everything. When the engine is off the gases still remains to seep into everything. Some have found out this concept the hard way, by filling a balloon with hydrogen and then after some time letting the gas out and get close to a flame with the same balloon and it blows up in their hand. The only way to stop this is to inject the hho gas directly into the cylanders. I will change out the oneway valve with a fast acting stainless steel type found in any truck stop that should take care of the problem, right ???

But I am right about the direction of gas flow, having been a mechanic for over 20 years and a degree in mechanical engineering, I can figure out the problems to just about anything that comes along. But I am only human and do miss things from time to  time ::). Thanks for the advice I will change out the oneway valve on any car that I put the devices on from now on ;), perhaps you should too, just to be safe.

I have been trying to get in contact with you for some time now, but now that I have switch gears going into fuel replacment systems I see no need too contact you anymore. You are doing great things for the Hydrogen Revolution, and, Lord be willing, soon so will I. Even though my market is for total fuel replacement, it can't replace the fuel for diesel engines I can only boost mileage. For that technology, Albert Bowe has the answer: http://waterengine.com.au/Video/WaterMotor.mp4

I put enough information on this site to help you out anyways, only thing you need to do is to bring the negetive from the engine to the cell, that give valance electron theory a chance to help make it even more efficent this site sells tubing with metal in it that can make the job easy: http://www.sisweb.com/vacuum/sis/steelhos.htm

Nice to finally get too talk to you somewhat, even if I got you upset. But I get tired of people questioning things when all I am trying to do is help. "We" have a lot of work to do since there are so many cars on the road running on petrolium fuels, and that is going to run out in about 2025. Well, take care and God Bless, just me h20power.............
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 10, 2007, 07:30:52 AM
On the valve topic when the engine is shut down the gas flow is towards the vacuum brake booster, if there is even the smallest leak in the oneway valve, all the left over gases will go to the brake booster. Since hydrogen is the lightest and smallest of them all, guess who goes first? This is why the oneway valve needs to be changed out and replaced with a very nice one, not the lowest bidder's oneway valve that the Automotive companies used.

Again thanks Magdrive(fuelfromh20) for clearing that up for me :)

But I am still right when the engine is running ;)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 22, 2007, 07:32:14 AM
Hi everyone, Just in case you thought I was full of BS read this on Zigouras Racing:
http://blog.waterforfuel.com/2007/03/17/sky-driver-airlines-dropping-you-off-exactly-where-you-need-to-be.aspx#Comment

As you can see the US has it head in the ground like an osterage, hoping things will just get better somehow. I was really counting on Zigs too come through, since Hypowerfuel.com seems to have stopped for some reason also. waterforfuel.com is so close to getting things working I hope he makes it. I need more time and money always too broke to get things done in a timely fashion. Gas where I am is 335 a gallon now, just because, for there is no Huricain, or full scale war to blaim this time. The weather is good, we are at peace, just helping that country to get on their feet, so why the big increase in fuel prices?

It just makes me angry to see technology being supresst, and we really need it now. To many people are going without power that have families to raise, but the cost of living just is too much for them too bare.

Meyer's technology really works, it just needs some fine tunning is all. High voltage and low current do a number to water, Zigs was electrolizing aproximently two gallons a minute, and that's way more than any car would need to run on. I want to save our oil for it is needed to make plastics or do we want a clay TV box ???. I hate the way things are looking for it seems we have no future pass 2025, and the Government is fine with that, go figure.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: kydrogen on March 25, 2007, 03:16:26 AM
Just ordered a unit from Magdrive.  Will hook it up to my small genset and see how it goes.  Will post info as I go along. 

Here is what I ordered.

Series9 "Hydro"Gen? $289.95 [Auto Fill Model][3.1L - 4.3L engines]
I'll tap it into my Briggs and Stratton Generator (I think it's a 9 horsepower gasser).  Will  use a 12 volt car battery that I will purchase at Pepboys.  Will keep the battery charged with a portable charger that I will of course plug into the generator.

Wish me luck.

Ironhead that video blew me away.  Please post pics of the unit in your vehicle.

Peace.
The magdrive unit showed up last week.  Will be buying a 12v. battery and hooking it up  tomorrow morning.  First to see if it will produce some H and O2.  Then pipe it into the air intake of the generator.  I'll most likely buy an amp meter to see what kind of amperage the fuel cell will be drawing.  I may document with a video camera and if I do will post up on the net somewhere.

Bye for now.
Title: Magdrive HHO Generators, MagDrive thinks he owns the eletrolysis....
Post by: hanker886 on March 26, 2007, 11:34:53 PM
hello all,

Because of this forum, I finnally ordered a Hydrogen unit intended for my Mazda 626. I spoke with Jim of Mag Drive today, asked soem questions adn told him I am interested in getting a dealership for California. My plan is to sell this to truck drivers. During the conversation, he told me he already has dealership in 30 countries. So I naturally asked whether he sells to any far eastern countries. Then he said he would not sell his product to Japan, Korea, Hong Kong Malaysia... because of the piracies. He asked me about my name becasue it's not a typical English last name.

After the conversation, I think he concluded he doesn't want to sell me the unit. So he cancelled the ordered. I was shocked. I am speachless...

We are here in this forum talking to each other, spreading the words/knowledge and technologies hoping to advance the humanity to higher level, hoping to contribute to save the earth yet we still have such bias people thinking he owns the eletrolysis technology. He think he is the only one knows the process. How stupid he is...

I hope by revealing my story to the forum hoping to hear your opinion about MagDrive's act and I invite your comments. Thank you
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 27, 2007, 08:19:42 AM
Yeah this guy is a racist as far as I can tell. Sad to see people like Jim still belive in the old, "Jim Crow" ways, but I am sure he was just taught this by his father that was taught his father before him. Lesson learned, some still judge people by the color ones skin and not by the content of their character. In this case a name and the sound of ones voice, too sad to see this kind of thing goes on in the 21st century.

For the record I have to pull my support from Fuelfromh20, Magdrive systems, for I can't afford to have his views on life bleed over into my company.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: pg46 on March 27, 2007, 01:18:38 PM
hanker886 -

 Nevermind. After all you can build a better unit cheaper yourself than what magdrive has on offer. So, consider yourself lucky he refused your purchase request!
 Magdrive has done a lot of good to market this type of technology and get it out into peoples vehicles and especially to get it into people's consciousness. Also his pricing isn't too outrageous. Having a magdrive unit installed in your vehicle is better than no unit at all.
 The efficiency of his technology isn't so good in comparison to other systems. Have a look over at  www.oupower.com where there are many people who have built electroylsis systems. Some have even purchased the magdrive units and are now reporting in their findings. I think you may get a good overview of what is available and what can be achieved with other designs.
 You can always get a friend with a more "magdrive friendly name" like say 'Smith' and he can order it for you if you still insist on buying an inefficient system.  ;)

Best Regards,
 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on March 28, 2007, 04:15:24 AM
Regarding the new youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbv_2B-c0WQ#-qhqI_E2YiY

I asked:

hartiberlin :
Hi Magdrive,
can you run the Dodge RAM just only on HHO gas now ?
Can you post a video, where you run a car only on the HHO gas without gasoline ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
admin of overunity dot com



magdrive answered :
Dodge Ram is running at almost 80% right now. Filled up 24 gal 3/1/2007 now the 27th and still 1/2 tank at almost 300 miles local/highway driving. Without Magnum could only get 320 miles per tank full. Things are getting better the more I get to develop the MagDrive.
I hope to dump the gas pump all together by first of the new year 2008. "I SAID HOPE"...
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: HeairBear on March 29, 2007, 03:31:56 PM
Forgot to add that after gasoline goes through magnets it is heated  around 700F

Can you explain how you are doing this? Why 700 degrees? I've tried googling "Fuel Vaporizer" and similar words but I have found nothing to buy on the commercial market. Although I did see one for sale at a website that also sells an electrolyser in a package kind of deal that has the vaporizer and some/oil additives. the vaporizer unit looks like a soldered brass pipe with 2 inlets and two outlets. I can understand how it works but I would like to see some other designs.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 29, 2007, 10:44:38 PM
Forgot to add that after gasoline goes through magnets it is heated  around 700F

Can you explain how you are doing this? Why 700 degrees? I've tried googling "Fuel Vaporizer" and similar words but I have found nothing to buy on the commercial market. Although I did see one for sale at a website that also sells an electrolyser in a package kind of deal that has the vaporizer and some/oil additives. the vaporizer unit looks like a soldered brass pipe with 2 inlets and two outlets. I can understand how it works but I would like to see some other designs.

This device in this thread is not a gasoline vaporizer it is a Hydrogen Oxygen Electrolyzer.



 IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: HeairBear on March 30, 2007, 12:36:57 AM
I quoted you Ironhead, from this thread. How is that off topic or thread jacking? If it got moved, then why did I find it here? Thanx for your derogatory comment also. I guess you can learn a lot from a dummy. Good luck with your ventures. I will take my self elsewhere and not bother this forum etiquette group.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 30, 2007, 01:03:11 AM
Sorry about that HearirBear ,my bad.

The way you worded it , it seemed like you were confused between the two processes 
,when it was actually me that was confused.

If you would like to understand more about Vapor gasoline? We can start a new thread.

I did not accuse you of thread jacking at all.

Many of the technologies I use are working together or linked for a given purpose , but may not be the same type of technology. So it can get confusing to me when others ask how this or that works. Then having to post that answer to a specific technology thread.

It is I that hijacked this thread  then moved it to :
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.new.html#new

Build Till The Day I Die
IronHead
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: HeairBear on March 30, 2007, 05:16:32 AM
apology accepted and please accept mine for my angry reply. I think you are still missing my point though. You said earlier in the thread that you heat up your gasoline to 700 degrees. If I am not mistaken, that is a fuel vaporiser. The link you posted is a discussion about your high voltage HHO production. Do you call that a fuel vaporiser? or just a vaporiser? I'm confused.... I just want to know how you are heating the gas to 700 degrees. and why. Today's gasoline has a boiling point ranging from 130 degrees to 430 degrees Fahrenheit or 54 degrees to 221 degrees Celsius. Is it because of the additives they put in gasoline?  Magdrive HHO Generators are designed to work with gasoline even though they can and do run HHO alone. But for us who use the device as recommended would maybe like to know how to get the most out of their high cost gasoline and save even more money along with less pollution. The point being a gasoline vaporiser working with an HHO gen is even better. here is a link for a better description.

http://www.himacresearch.com/books/secret1.html

CHEERS!
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 30, 2007, 07:16:02 AM
If you really want to save gas then get into this technology: http://youtube.com/watch?v=miwbvsya3Ek&mode=user&search=
For if you build it right you can get off of gasoline all together, who needs a Mag Drive with this kind of technology out there. Sorry Jim, but Stanley Meyer beat you out, even though he is dead. Just to think, you think he is a fraud, when he had the answer too what we all have been looking for. Not just a fuel additive but a fuel replacement technology.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: HeairBear on March 30, 2007, 08:40:42 AM
From what I've seen in that video, it's the same thing as a mag-gen and a PWM. I thought he quit using electrolysis and went with using photons. He also used special spark plugs/injecters of his design. These patents are freely available for viewing mostly in PDF format. Don't get me wrong, I would love to do this but no one I know has knowledge of how it's done exactly. and building a prototype from just the patents is a very expensive gamble. It may not work and you may not know why. For my particular situation I need a cheap way to make my gas cheaper. An electrolyser will give me the most bang for my buck. I won't have to modify my vehicle that much either. How many of you out there have run only HHO on a newer chipped car? If you did, how did you do it? Hopefully this summer I will achieve full HHO by using a MIL eliminator and an adjustable timing module for electronic ignition. Maybe even a programmable mod chip for the PCM if they make such a thing.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: SteamDrive on March 30, 2007, 06:29:50 PM
Magdrive should be call a steam driveve it puts more water vapor then HHO.
Magdrive  gas output is very low. Please test the product before you install it.
Vacuum will make more water vapor not HHO
 :'( :'(
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 30, 2007, 09:07:22 PM
This is just about all you need to know on getting Mr. Meyer's technology to work, just note that you will need a VIC circut and to match the diodes to the 555 and mosfet switching speeds.

Well I was just looking for the MeyerRep.pdf file online and it seems the MIB guys have pulled it from just about everywhere, for it can't be found. See they are not messing with Magdrive for all he has are mileage boosters, but they go through great lengths too stamp out Mr. Meyer's ideas. I am still shocked that I can't find it online, not even on PESWiki.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: SteamDrive on March 30, 2007, 09:47:31 PM
Do a search for a Stanley_Meyers-Water_Fuel-Cell-Technical_Brief-FULL.pdf  file.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on March 30, 2007, 11:39:48 PM
Here is this file attached to this message.
Very interesting material !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on March 31, 2007, 04:07:25 AM
I'd like to say thanks Hartiberlin for this pdf. If only Mr. Meyer's wasn't so secretive about his technology, but I think I got a handle on it. http://youtube.com/watch?v=bqfiAXIs3Xc

This video help me put two and two together too make four. I hope it helps anyone trying this some insight.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on March 31, 2007, 05:48:28 AM
.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: HeairBear on April 01, 2007, 06:15:49 AM
Thank you very much hartiberlin for that PDF! Now how do I make some homebrew quench tubes?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: fuelfromh2o on April 07, 2007, 09:35:33 AM
For those who say and endorse the statement that I am some kind of racist. None of you have ever met me, don't know me and have no idea about what you are talking about. And for the statement made, that I don't sell to units to various peoples, well those in 30 western cultured nations would disagree with you.
Notice I said western cultured nations, not middle east or far east. Why you ask, well who controls the worlds oil and who has leads the headlines in piracy of American and western goods? Do a little research if you don't know.
Making statements without having facts to support those statements, is just plain ignorant. Being supposed adults, you'd think that you'd be grown out of the he said, she said, 4th grade nonsense. Apparently, some of you just haven't grown up yet.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: h20power on April 07, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
Jim, a lot of the people you refuse to sell to, are here in the US. You base your sells on the way someone talks, if they sound Asian you don't sell to them. I know the history of where you are from very well, and I know for a fact the, 'Good ol Boy network' is still very much in effect. The "Jim Crow" ways still divied you area with clear cut race lines. I hated it when I was there, and couldn't wait to go home.

Face it,  :oyou got caught :o judging people by the color of their skill, the type of family name, and/or the sound of their voice alone.

But like I said before it's not totally your fault since you learn that behavor past down from one generation to the next for a very long time. So, you don't even see it and for the most part are totally unaware of your actions. I just hope you learn that people are people, and God will be the judge of that.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hanker886 on May 01, 2007, 06:24:41 AM
Here is a Japanese version of water car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs

Sorry, no English subtitle here.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on October 24, 2007, 02:02:41 AM
I always wondered how a MAGDRIVE electrolyzer looked inside.

Here is a picture I have received from somebody who purchased one.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: ZeroFossilFuel on October 24, 2007, 02:25:00 AM
Nice! Cylinder is one electrode, washers the other?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: dlwammo on October 24, 2007, 02:36:39 AM
@ZFF
Stainless Steel fender washers....  hmmmmm.....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5JBGNreUM5Q (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5JBGNreUM5Q)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: buzneg on October 24, 2007, 03:42:16 AM
I bought one of these.
http://hydroasfuel.com/Products.html

didn't mount it on a vechicle yet.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on October 24, 2007, 03:54:27 AM
Okay, here are a few more shots. Let me know what else you want to see. @dlwammo - good to see the link to the video.  That is obviously a bigger unit than what I have but it seems basically the same @ZFF - I've been following your videos and am very impressed (most of all with the 31 MPG to 38 MPG - that = 18%+ increase, if consistent would be quite good).  What is important to me is the efficiency of this unit.  We have a ScanGuage in a Toyota 4 Runner and will test this unit when it has been installed with the unit in use and not in use.  Protocol will be 30 Miles on a flat road on auto-cruise to set the base line. Will probably do two runs in the same direction with windows, A/C in same position as base line then do second set of two runs within a 2 hr period to keep wind & temperature variance at a minimum.  I don't see how to post multiple pix at one time so I'll do a couple of post.  If you want to see anything else let me know before I put it back together.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on October 24, 2007, 03:55:39 AM
Next pix
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on October 24, 2007, 03:56:13 AM
next pix
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on October 24, 2007, 03:56:51 AM
last pix
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: hartiberlin on October 24, 2007, 04:59:13 AM
This youtube user sells also quite a nice simular
cell on Ebay:

http://youtube.com/user/ThePowerTube

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: dlwammo on October 25, 2007, 05:11:55 AM
It's the same guy I posted from the earlier video.  He dissected the MagDrive unit and then came up with this version of the PowerTube.
The idea of placing the washers in a horizontal position should help production. 
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on October 25, 2007, 03:51:13 PM
Actually production is about the same  - He measures 16 OZ Hydrogen in 3 min for the MagDrive and his shows 5 OZ in 1 minute on his unit.  That being said I want to see if there is any increase in fuel efficiency when this thing (I happen to have the MagDrive) is installed and tested on the in the real world on the road.  I know MagDrive has their own test but I've been in the marketing business too long to believe anything they put on their website.  I know ZeroFossilFuel did see a about a 18% increase in fuel efficiency when he put his on the road and his unit on the low end produced about 8.5 OZ (500 ml in 1 min 50 sec) which is better than both these units.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: DolceStefano on December 03, 2007, 03:57:51 AM
Heh all, first post, but have being curiously browsing through the whole site. It really is fascinating.
Anyways, I purchased a Magdrive, it is a smaller version to the one pictured above (although it has the same amount of washers) and it works pretty good...  I also added a pwm and an Effie to the setup, and I'm currently getting about a 50% efficiency.... 
I use a half teaspoon of lye to a gallon of steam distilled water, and it maxes at 5amps....

But I still feel it could be better....  Maybe......   :-\

Unfortunately the lye leaves a residue on the SS, so I do have the clean out the system weekly with vinegar to get optimum results.....  I have also experimented with the Aaron's cell, but has more or less the same results......

I just have a few questions that ye scientists and enthusiasts can answer for me!!!!
Is HHO produced between the edge of the washer and the tube surrounding it? And if so, why not use more washers?
What is the purpose of the outer SS tube? (as the inner tube is carefully positioned with spacers between....)

I guess its a simple and effective devise, but as said above, I feel it doesn't produce enough HHO!!!
I would really love to achieve more....
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on December 03, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
I also added a pwm and an Effie to the setup, and I'm currently getting about a 50% efficiency.... 
I use a half teaspoon of lye to a gallon of steam distilled water, and it maxes at 5amps....

Unfortunately the lye leaves a residue on the SS, so I do have the clean out the system weekly with vinegar to get optimum results.....  I have also experimented with the Aaron's cell, but has more or less the same results......

I just have a few questions that ye scientists and enthusiasts can answer for me!!!!
Is HHO produced between the edge of the washer and the tube surrounding it? And if so, why not use more washers?
What is the purpose of the outer SS tube? (as the inner tube is carefully positioned with spacers between....)


@dolce
You are getting about 50% efficiency - how does that translate to increased mileage (or KM)?  In other words did you go from 15 MPG to 22 MPG (or KM?  I just wanted to clarify.  We are presently testing on multiple vehicles with as many variables taken out as possible.

You use the abbreviation pwm and effie - I know what the effie is but what is pwm? Residue in the SS - What is the SS?

To answer you on why not use more washers - we looked at the manufacturing procedure of this product and it is basically put together with off the shelf parts using a hack saw, a drill bit and a screwdriver.  Nothing wrong with that but as a guess, I believe they are trying to crank out a low cost product as efficiently as possible.  Also they just started selling a brick and I have no idea what that looks like inside or what its efficiency is compared to the cylinder. Looking at Zero Fossil Fuel's stuff and his efficiency with his experiments you can see where the gas is mostly emitted and how using bigger and more plates produces far more H.

Regards,
Michael
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: DolceStefano on December 04, 2007, 12:48:13 AM
Quote

@dolce
You are getting about 50% efficiency - how does that translate to increased mileage (or KM)?  In other words did you go from 15 MPG to 22 MPG (or KM?  I just wanted to clarify.  We are presently testing on multiple vehicles with as many variables taken out as possible.

You use the abbreviation pwm and effie - I know what the effie is but what is pwm? Residue in the SS - What is the SS?

To answer you on why not use more washers - we looked at the manufacturing procedure of this product and it is basically put together with off the shelf parts using a hack saw, a drill bit and a screwdriver.  Nothing wrong with that but as a guess, I believe they are trying to crank out a low cost product as efficiently as possible.  Also they just started selling a brick and I have no idea what that looks like inside or what its efficiency is compared to the cylinder. Looking at Zero Fossil Fuel's stuff and his efficiency with his experiments you can see where the gas is mostly emitted and how using bigger and more plates produces far more H.

Regards,
Michael

Hi Michael, apologises for being so vague, My car has a 4 cylinder standard 2 liter engine. Before the installation of the Magdrive, I was roughly getting 33 miles to the gallon (4.5litres/Gallon), with the Magdrive I'm roughly getting 52 miles to the gallon (which depends on my driving, in town it isn't that great, on the open road it is  ;))  At first I was only getting about 20-30% efficiency, so I looked into it abit more and came across eagle research, who supplied me with the EFIE. I also purchased a Pulse Width Modulator at http://www.bakatronics.com/   Now I'm not too sure how efficient this devise makes the Magdrive, but it seems to work.....

As said, this is all pretty new to me, so I'm still learning   :)  As for the SS (Stainless Steel), the lye seems to leave a black residue on the surface of it...  Today< I stripped down the Magdrive, just to compare to the pictures above, I seem to have double amount of washers, (I will post a picture tomorrow, to explain it better) I also noticed that the spacers used between the stainless steel washers are of some type of Graphite material, almost charcoal!!  And this seems to wear down, which I'm guessing now this is the reason why the unit gets so black inside!!!!!  mmmmmmmmmm

After looking into it abit more, this Unit could be replicated for less than 100dollars, but I'm sure its not something people will want to do.....

Yes, Ive seen the "Brick", it seems to work with 3 or 4 plates. I'm all for new development, but it seems that magdrive are on a new tangent!!!!! Which worries me........

I have spent alot of time and money on this, and all my friends and family are asking about this unit I have in my car, I am kind of reluctant to steer them magdrives way, but they seem to have the most readily affordable unit...... Magdrive don't advise to purchase an Efie either..... I am also concerned about the unit pictured above, it is exactly the same as my unit but the other tube is just longer and can hold more water but its double the price!!!

Sorry for the rant, and in no way am I discrediting Magdrive, I am happy with the results Ive achieved, I am saving money....  But its not a devise that ya can plug and play, alot of working involved in tweaking it, and fitting it!!!!

 :D
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on December 04, 2007, 03:21:04 AM
@ Dolce
Thank you for clarifying the terms.  Much appreciated.  If you went from 33 to 52 MPG that?s a whopping 37% increase in fuel efficiency.  It seems the iffe and the pwm make a difference.  Did you check with each individually to see what made the most difference or just put both on and retest together?

When I spent time talking to the owner of the MagDrive he really was selling how easy it was to install.  I?m not a gear head and certainly not mechanically inclined.  I ran for the cover of a mechanic and paid (of course as I stated earlier we are in the process of testing multiple vehicles restricting the variables as much as possible).  It is definitely not a ?simple? install.

I don?t know what unit you have but I think I paid about $300 for the unit you see above.

I went back to ZFF (ZeroFossilFuels) on YouTube to take a look at something else and watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyeqtm9zR7Q  and computed the efficiency of the Hydrogen production.  He has it to 500 ML in 17 seconds.  That?s 56 OZ in one minute or over 11 times the amount of the MagDrive.  That?s with a warmed up cell.  He sure has made some really good progress in his research.  What I couldn?t tell at this point ? and it may be on another video ? was did this increase the fuel efficiency? Anyhow thought you might like to know.

Regards,
Michael
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: DolceStefano on December 04, 2007, 03:42:37 AM
Very interesting, cheers!!  Just looking at his videos, will study intentively........

Your absolutely right though about the installation, its definitely not that easy.....

Was just thinking there about the graphite spacers in the Magdrive, it may have something to do with keeping the temperature down within the cell....  Maybe...

As for your question about testing each item, yes i did test the magdrive first but was not happy with results, with the addition of the efie it more or less doubled the efficiency.....

As said, it really does fluctuate, If your driving around town it ain't really good, the throttle response is great though.....  If your travelling long distances on open road, well you will certainly save some money and the environment....  Gonna to get an emissions test, just to confirm.....

Cheers again for the links  ;)


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: readyakira on December 04, 2007, 04:17:56 AM
Are you locating the supply on the intake side of the throttle body? or between the filter and throttle body?  I read someplace that by placing a line on both sides you get more draw out of the unit since at open throttle there should be more vacuum between the air filter and throttle body then in the intake... <but that don't completely make sense to me.
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: DolceStefano on December 04, 2007, 04:49:38 AM
Are you locating the supply on the intake side of the throttle body? or between the filter and throttle body?  I read someplace that by placing a line on both sides you get more draw out of the unit since at open throttle there should be more vacuum between the air filter and throttle body then in the intake... <but that don't completely make sense to me.

I had difficulty in understanding this as well at first, I have 2 hoses going directly in front of the main throttle body, (in front of the butterfly) I didn't want to lose any HHO in the air filter, also no extra vacuum is required.... 
I did experiment abit though, and there is plenty of options to get more vacuum, but unfortunately it appeared to boil the water, and water was sucked directly into the carb, it was actually frightening to see this happen   :o  I have yet to find a suitable valve to regulate this.

The unit itself is pretty well sealed, if you even try to block the hose while its generating, there seems to be alot of push.....

HHO naturally flows into the carb, but I do see your point.... My problem at the moment is in the deceleration, and especially stuck in traffic where this unit ain't nowhere efficient..

Alot of bugs to iron out.....    :-\

Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on December 04, 2007, 05:16:13 AM
When you say in stuck in traffic it's not efficient - is it way below the differential you see on the hwy?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: DolceStefano on December 04, 2007, 02:35:52 PM
Yes Michael, Unfortunately I don't see half the efficiency while driving around town, (probably no efficiency at all) and being stuck in traffic.... 
This could be due to a number of reasons though, It takes awhile for the Efie to start going (about 10mins) It also takes a while for the HHO to actually reach the carb maybe 3-5 mins.....  So if I'm going on a 5 min journey from A to B, you can imagine this Unit doesn't quite work....
No-one is going to have their car warming up for 10 minutes before they take their journey.....

Food for thought   ;)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: mikem33 on December 04, 2007, 04:36:34 PM
You're right that kind of stinks - I have a mechanic (with degree in physical chemistry) working on some corrections for the unit.  I'll bring it up and see if we can find a solution.

Regards,
Michael
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: sledgehammer on December 30, 2007, 05:20:20 PM
Hi my first post so be gentle  ;)

I have been using a Magdrive series 9 F hydro-gen
on a 998cc car - pipe in inlet manifold (always a vacuum) 2 flame traps , 1 vapour trap
thing's noted ...

no exhaust smell 1 min after startup
takes over 10 min's for unit to warm up to full op temp - same time as the engine
produced quite a bit of hho to start with , but within hours output decreased
and ampage dropped - flushed system to find thick black mud in the bottom of the
chamber

flushed out as best I could , tried again with same results , electolyte is as per instructions
1 heaped teaspoon per us gallon (3.8l)
the graphite seems to erode and coat the stainless blocking hho production
these units don't like the cold much and cool too much when the fan's are on

emailed  magdrive with no reply  ::)

I belive the guy is genuine ... and the magdrive before my one uses stainless nuts
as spacers - thus more contact area , and proberly no mud , but more amp's per volt / same temp
has anyone found the same???

as he say's he keep's the price cheap so normal people can buy them

what is your opinion ???


Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: IronHead on December 30, 2007, 10:32:45 PM
What kind of water are you putting in the thing?
And what do you mean  graphite were is graphite coming from ?
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: sledgehammer on December 30, 2007, 11:51:44 PM
What kind of water are you putting in the thing?
And what do you mean  graphite were is graphite coming from ?

I'm using filtered rain water

Magdrive seem to use graphite washers and spacers (similar to pencil lead)
the lower spacers are waisted    )(    in the middle as if they are corroded
and the mud is the same colour (not rusty)
this was all over the lower innards of the mag-drive
and appeared to be slowing hho production
Flushed it several times , even with white vinegar , but it kept coming back
when it was working well it was definately pumping out hho
as I said earlier versions had stainless nuts as spacers , and
proberly won't have any problems
early days yet , I am replacing internals with nylon washers / spacers (heat resistant)
I expected some problems anyway , as you do with ''one size fits all'' products
I am certainly not going to lay back and let the oil company's take my money
and I consider the magdrive a starting point , they seem to be a honest enough company
just my one clog's up  ::)

(in the uk petrol is over ?1.03p per liter ... approx $8 per us gallon)
so you can understand the interest



Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: dagronmaster on February 22, 2008, 03:56:20 AM
HI guys,
   Im interested in this system.  Has any one seen the new changes to these units.  http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/index.html   
What do you guys thing about these are they worth it? I have been reading this forum I like what you guys are doing and plan on trying my self.  Would like to know what you all think.


Chuck
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: sledgehammer on March 02, 2008, 11:14:38 PM
Well petrol is now ?1.07 per litre  :(
the mag drive is working better , with much less mud in the bottom (I havn't replaced all the graphite , yet)
I drain the sediment once a week , and have fitted a auto-drain from the vapour trap to the bottom of the magdrive
so all the vapour drains back to the MD
but temps are in the - in the morning so it dosn't stand much chance of warming up  ::)
I am considering changing the electrolyte to distilled vinegar
as this should clean the stainless as it is used and will be better in the cold , but will use more amp's
what have others used as electrolyte
I've been doing experiments with 2 spiral coils of perforated stainless 316 seperated by cable ties
and it seems to work , I am looking for woven plastic mesh to allow more bubble discharge between the coils
also have noticed when I strap a ''shaking motor'' to the container the bubbles release easier
so maybe if I bolt the magdrive to the engine it will work better ??? also offsetting it a bit allows bubbles to release
from the horizontal washers ... if it don't shake it to bits
anyone seen the inside of the magdrive ''brick'' ???
anyway hope it's warmer where you all are  ;)
and the petrol is cheaper  ::)
Title: Re: Magdrive HHO Generators
Post by: vdubdipr on April 06, 2008, 07:52:47 PM
if rust is the concern, for now at least so you dont have to coat your engines internals with CERAMIC. why not turn off the generator and switch back to gasoline for the last 5- 10 minutes of the drive to dry everything out, then rust could only form while its rolling on hydrogen. this way when its parked you woulndt be rusting.......... how 'bout them apples????