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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: pomodoro on September 28, 2014, 02:06:59 PM
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While working on equipment to test the avramenko plug accurately, I was lucky to come across 50 or so grams of uranium nitrate (Uranyl Nitrate). Immediately I (temporarily) dropped the project and decided to brush up on an old interest of mine (and thousands of others) - the Moray device. This is probably the device with the least BS associated with it. Many of you know of the device, but for those who don't , there are two major ways, which this 50kW device apparently worked 1: It tapped into the 7Hz Schuman resonance or 2: It contained radioactive substances in the 'Moray valve' or tube. There is no doubt it oscillated, probaably in the kHz range. Other theories talk of the zero point energy, cosmic particles etc, but these are extremely unlikely.
Paul Brown in the 80's suggested that Moray used radioactive substances in the RF resonant circuit, and Brown apparently built a working device as shown in his patent. Brown was charged with fraud eventually, but it is believed that it may have been a conspiracy. The Hubbard coil is another device that used radium to power a boat for hours.
My idea is to monitor a kV discharge from a capacitor into a high Q coil. In the coil will initially be air only, then salt and finally uranium nitrate. I would expect the one with the uranium to show less damping of the oscillations than the others.
Any ideas, comments before I start please (technical only).
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Hello pomodoro,
did you notice that wesley posted some interesting links in the Kapanadze-Thread which might be of interest:
http://www.astralpublishing.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/paper_presented_ans1989_meeting_paulbrown.pdf (http://www.astralpublishing.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/paper_presented_ans1989_meeting_paulbrown.pdf)
http://www.astralpublishing.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/telsasymposium1990paperbypaulbrown.pdf (http://www.astralpublishing.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/telsasymposium1990paperbypaulbrown.pdf)
Kator01
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We have to get to the basics first.moray was playing with valves ie moray was definitely playing with thermionic emission of sorts.let us hypothesize from there
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Radium or uranium inside a rectifiying cold cathode tube,what percentage of gammas can be auto-rectified in this way?
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Morays own words from drawings: 'portions of germanium were used...Ge,FeS,MoS,Bi,uranium' sounds like gamma rectification for definite
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Radium or uranium inside a rectifiying cold cathode tube,what percentage of gammas can be auto-rectified in this way?
He was using alpha, not gamma.
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Thank you for the Links!
Replication of Moray's device is obviously extremely difficult since in 90 years nothing has been shown to the public.
Not much is available regarding the larger, 50KW models, which were apparently tested underground and in submarines.
The first models used a wire antenna which gave long sparks when being repositioned. These sparks were harmless and characteristic of sparks generated in the KHz range. Any lower and they could kill, any higher and they would be very hard to produce, as seen in the MHz range tesla coils which only give short sparks.
The problem is that there is no natural known source of rf radiation which could possibly give watts of power to a receiver. Microwatts possibly, and that's from a radio station. Robert W Bass, Rhodes scholar, in his video , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTCZu8OZtI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTCZu8OZtI) , believed that Moray was tapping into the Schumann resonance. Unfortunately Roberts passed away soon after the video. To tap into these waves effectively one would need an antenna a quarter wave long or about 6 miles long. They also exist as standing waves, which would mean some locations would get no power.
One theory I had was that Moray applied a very high voltage at the antenna to create an energy sucking effect, as is talked about on this page, http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html (http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html) , the problem is that the oscillations were definitely not at the 7Hz range.
If we concentrate on radioactivity as being the 'secret' then we quickly run into a big problem Simple calculations show that no where close to enough energy can be supplied by the radioactive source. For example 1 gram of polonium 210 , a very powerful source of alpha particles, radiates 4500 Curies of radiation. This is the same as 4.5Kg of Radium which itself is no weakling. The powerful 1g of polonium will only provide 52 microampers of electricity between two plates. See patent 2,633,542 . Uranium would provide practically no current at all!
Does RF excitation make a difference? Modern nuclear science would say no. But according to Paul Brown it does. Although there are pictures of a Nuclear Magnetic Battery, I don't believe that there are any witnesses who saw it in operation, unlike Moray, who displayed his invention many times and allowed people to view all its parts except for one small part he kept in his hand or pocket.
I don't expect the uranium to power any device but I would hope that if Brown was correct some positive influence on the decay of the current in the resonant coil would show. The radioactivity of my sample is about 25000 counts per minute.
If we are to concentrate on the antenna theory instead, then I believe that those high voltages may be achieved by using a tesla coil type of secondary coil (just a coil of wire with many turns but very high Q) coupled to the antenna (short antenna to avoid radiating out RF energy). The coil is tuned to some weak signal in the kHz range (lighnight strikes, radio station for testing etc). The coil is part of a regeneration type receiver and receives regeneration from a coupled coil and transistor (and battery initially). Once oscillations are built up to very high levels, extra power from a coupling coil can be used to power the transistor and outside circuitry. Take a look at this patent for more info on an antenna with a small physical area but huge effective area and massive bandwidth www.google.com/patents/US5296866
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True pomodoro natural uranium shoved infront of the best germanium or silicon photocells would give hardly a few microamper BUT, remember,he had other elements shoved in that tube besides uranium eg bismuth.is it possible that certain nonradioactive elements exposed to mildly radioactive elements,become highly radio-active after exposure?I remember marie curie doing something like this. Is it possible that bismuth,which is already on the cusp of instability undegoes fission of sorts if stimulated by uranium's alphas? The question is,what is the fundamental behind morays energy gains and boosting of radio-signals?
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A thought had occured to me also that since moray was layering-arraying semiconductors it seems,Ge,FeS,MoS he wouldve been capturing a multi-portion of natural uraniums emmission spectrum ie alphas,gammas,x-rays and perhaps lower frequency emmisions that we don't even know exists yet.a CIGS (copper-indium-gallium-sulfide) solar panel can convert not only visible but ultraviolet,near-infrared photons too. I've also heard that a single alpha particle can have so much energy in it that it can cascade thousands of electrons to higher energy states in silicon wafer
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A thought had occured to me also that since moray was layering-arraying semiconductors it seems,Ge,FeS,MoS he wouldve been capturing a multi-portion of natural uraniums emmission spectrum ie alphas,gammas,x-rays and perhaps lower frequency emmisions that we don't even know exists yet.a CIGS (copper-indium-gallium-sulfide) solar panel can convert not only visible but ultraviolet,near-infrared photons too. I've also heard that a single alpha particle can have so much energy in it that it can cascade thousands of electrons to higher energy states in silicon wafer
I don't believe there is enough energy in the particles. By simply blocking all alpha particles with some paper, all energy will turn to heat. You need extremely radioactive substances to do this, and lots of them to get any rise in temperature. I'm very sure that even the thousands of cascaded electrons in a photomultiplier tube, caused by one photon, which give rise to a current , do not give free power- it drains the high voltage supply.
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Then what is boosting power pomodoro? Resonant up-conversion against 2nd law? Its been known to happen with far-infrared.question is,what was moray up-converting?
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Those tubes in his patent are interesting. They supposedly protected the power supply by shorting out at a high voltage. But in reality much simpler systems would have been used instead. In fact the power supply or transformer can easily be designed so as not to require external protection. One tube was reported as having a capacitance of 1F! This was a massive value only a few years ago, let alone in the 50s. Perhaps those tubes oscillated in a tank circuit and produced power?
Let's see what happens when I zap the uranium salt in a 1uH high Q copper foil coil with a 0.25uF cap charged at 8000v
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It also helps to note that bismuth on exposure to neutrons from uranium turns into polonium,potent alpha emitter.
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@profits: "We have to get to the basics first"
thats exactly what is foremost necessary. Was one of the reasons why I presented the two links because there is shown one principle
of Betavoltaic so we do not have to speculate about devices which we will not know how they really functioned because of obvious reasons.
I repeat: "is shown one priciple" I know another one which in fact is much more interesting because it opens a total new view into what is going on during readioactive decay and how this decay-process can be trapped while the radioactive element repeats to decay but is hindered by some Parameter thus leading to a phaenomenon called "fermi-resonance".
The links to these vids were also presented by wesley but I have to confess that I will have to study this more than one time to understand the underlying principle.
@profits: unfortunately most of this is presented in intorductory vids
Here is the main website of Snake River N-Radiation Lab
http://www.srnrl.com/ (http://www.srnrl.com/)
lets have a closer look at what Paul Brown is saying and I wonder why many do not either read or understand what is written in plain language
"a single beta particle emitted from strontium-90 that is absorbed in copper will generate 80,000 ions in a distance of .030 inches."
So here we have it: this is how you can create sort of a supracoductor
futher:
" This increase in the number of moving charge carriers is measured in the real world as increased current.
We also measure a reduction in the resistance of the wire and an increase in its conductivity while the current is directly proportional to the voltage. In other words, the current goes up with an increase of the voltage" !!!
Did you read the curriculum vitae of P.Brown at the last page of the second link ?
I would have put this curriculum at the beginning of this document to make it clear who is presenting this knowledge.
Regards
Kator01
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The probability of spontaneous fission of U238 and U235 are way too low. Way below 1 in a million per decay. The only chance is if strong alternating ac field can speed things up. This has never been shown to happen, although the spin of unpaired protons can be , such as with NMR.
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@pomodoro: What about Thorium ? You can find it in old gas-mantles. I can by there here at 3 €.
http://www.pelam.de/product_info.php?products_id=401&language=en (http://www.pelam.de/product_info.php?products_id=401&language=en)
Kator01
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Jesus h. christ kator.a nuclear triggered kelvin-violator? Nuclear events going negentropic? The thought had occured to me
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True pomodoro.we should be able to estimate the total heat output of any nuclear disintergration by shoving a lead block infront of it and measuring heat dissipation.in other words,either moray found a way to induce faster rate of disintergration OR we have a 2lot violation OR both
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@pomodoro: What about Thorium ? You can find it in old gas-mantles. I can by there here at 3 €.
http://www.pelam.de/product_info.php?products_id=401&language=en (http://www.pelam.de/product_info.php?products_id=401&language=en)
Kator01
how many hits per minute?
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@telecom it is about 44million hits/sec/kg pure thorium.check this table out for all naturaly radioactive elements http://webmineral.com/help/radioactivity.shtml .according to brown his system made a whopping 25% energy conversion of each beta or alpha particle which shot through copper-beryllium conductor.that is monstrous efficiency compared to the best germanium or silicon betavoltaics (2-5%).I had been trying to get the smallest current registered from a home-made rubidium (just under the legal hazard limit) semiconductor betavoltaics many years ago but never registered anything.
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@telecom it is about 44million hits/sec/kg pure thorium.check this table out for all naturaly radioactive elements http://webmineral.com/help/radioactivity.shtml .according to brown his system made a whopping 25% energy conversion of each beta or alpha particle which shot through copper-beryllium conductor.that is monstrous efficiency compared to the best germanium or silicon betavoltaics (2-5%)
I doubt these are realistic figures, the web page is not available.
If alpa hits beryllium, will generate lots of neutrons - can be unsafe.
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Lol.unsafe? Bill gates wants to flood us with tritium batteries my frend.ever ingested tritium before?
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What tritium has to do with neutrons?
Neutrons can penetrate anywhere, virtually unstoppable.
Tritium is widely used in the emergency signs - very safe unless you ingest it, as you said.
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Depends what extent the neutrons leak outside casing.a battery can be made safe casing same like tritium casing.any guy that gets a few microampere from potassium or rubidium or samarium will be wealthy overnight,abundant non-regulated beta emitters,samarium alpha emitter 100000 hits/sec/kg
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Depends what extent the neutrons leak outside casing.a battery can be made safe casing same like tritium casing.any guy that gets a few microampere from potassium or rubidium or samarium will be wealthy overnight,abundant non-regulated beta emitters,samarium alpha emitter 100000 hits/sec/kg
where did you get that samarium product?
neutron protection requires 3 m of concrete
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Samarium-cobalt magnet,you can leach the samarium out with HCl and dry to SmCl2 crystals.
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Here in south africa you can literally pick up uranium oxide rock off the floor in some parts.very abundant here.the mines have also been known to dump it onto villages without safety warnings.kids play in the yellow dust
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wow profitis,
you are living in nuclear paradise ;D . Lots of it to collect..lots of betavoltaic cells. I envy you.
Kator01
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Lol kator.you can also get thoranite or uraninite gems on ebay if you need (-:
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Here in south africa you can literally pick up uranium oxide rock off the floor in some parts.very abundant here.the mines have also been known to dump it onto villages without safety warnings.kids play in the yellow dust
you can start a nice business on ebay selling these.
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Or a nicer buisness selling potassium-powered moray bat$$$
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Let's not forget that Moray is reported to have made a crystal radio that could power a loud speaker directly and some device that could hear people's conversations from very far away. I believe that anything which uses radioactivity generated currents must use the source in a very high ac voltage circuit. But even then, kV and uA converted by a transformer become V and mA. Enough for a speaker, not much more.
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For this desktop thing. Beta radiation is relativistic electrons. Relativistic means nearly the speed of light.
So it's not surprising that a Beta radiation source is going to knock the heck out of electrons in a wire.
Electrons in a wire individually travel at about the speed of sound 700MPH. Electronic signals also travel
at the speed of light. I'm telling you you don't want neutrons, alpha particles or gamma rays coming out
of a desktop device with no shielding. Someone calculated to have 1 Joule of latent heat (something someone could feel
as being warm) produced it takes 10^15 nuclear fusions each producing one relativistic neutron and that this is
way too much cell damage for a living being to tolerate.
So one can get electromagnetic effects out of a beta particle, what one needs then is to speed up radioactive decay
based in an EMF effect. What would cause that I have no idea, it's not supposed to happen. This would be an EMF moderated
nuclear chain reaction. It sounds like something from LENR actually.
:S:MarkSCoffman
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Here are most of the bits. Just need a mouse trap for the switch...
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Might not be necessary to speed up nuclear decay @markscoffman.according to brown they were just making high efficiency conversion of each flood of particle that hit.what I don't get is how any transformer is going to register such pulses in a meaningful way unless each particle does indeed knockout a 20000 electrons on trajectory but even then,you're going to need one hell of a sensitive rectifier at such frequencies of vibes,unless its like a geiger,distinct hotshots
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One ampere is 6.241×1018 electrons per second. Say Moray powered a 50W 110W globe, he would require 450mA. Lets assume his high voltage tank circuit, which sparked at the antenna, produced 110kV and was stepped down to 110V. The the current in the HV circuit would be 450uA. Now we need a still large 2.8×1015 electrons per second.
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If you can show a few tens of microampere from uranium it would be fantastic pomodoro.uranium is not very radio-active so if you can get it to where tritium or promethium (smoke detectors) can get it its a leap in the right direction.natural uranium is hundreds times cheaper than tritium,which is breeded from reactors.I would like to suggest you take a crystal of germanium or doped silicon wafer and shove some of those nitrate crystals ontop and shove the covered semiconductor-crystal onto aluminum foil base for bottom contact,prick the top of semiconductor-crystal with a needle for top contact and see if you register any fraction of a microamp of dc
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I don't have those materials. I do have beryllium xray windows but I don't think that's the way to go. I do have a 2n3055 with the top removed. A crystal of the nitrate on the bits inside caused no current of voltage. Light on the other hand gave 100s of millivolts. Another test is to measure current between two charged plates as Marie Curie did to test the activity of her extractions.
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Hi
try generating light first using radioluminescent material, then use a solar panel to create electrical current.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioluminescence
Historically, a mixture of radium and copper-doped zinc sulfide was used to paint instrument dials giving a greenish glow. Phosphors containing copper-doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu) yield blue-green light; copper and manganese-doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu,Mn), yielding yellow-orange light, are also used. Radium-based luminescent paint is no longer used due to the radiation hazard posed to those manufacturing the dials. These phosphors are not suitable for use in layers thicker than 25 mg/cm2, as the self-absorption of the light then becomes a problem. Furthermore, zinc sulfide undergoes degradation of its crystal lattice structure, leading to gradual loss of brightness significantly faster than the depletion of radium.
ZnS:Ag coated spinthariscope screens were used by Ernest Rutherford in his experiments discovering the atomic nucleus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor#Radioluminescence
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Excellent idea telecom.uranium nitrate can dissolve in water then soak into the scintillator powder followed by drying for extra massive surface area exposure to alphas
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The idea was floating around for some time, mb the simplest way of producing some power.
The hardest part for an ordinary folk is to get some decent alpha emitter - not sold since 1942.
I know some people recycle old radium dials.
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Now, following your conversation for a while I noticed that pomodoro expects voltage to be created by simply placing the radioactive element
either near a conductor or even on top of a semiconductor.
If you read the paper of Brown or what I have repeated here as a excerpt in one of my last postings he stated that a wire becomes sort of superconducting...and not creating a voltage difference at its terminals.
It is difficult to measure the inner ionized state of wire alone. Lets assume you take one meter of a copper wire AWG 18 = 1 mm diameter, put your ohmmeter on it an measure the inner resistance. What do you get ? Zero reading. How in the world will you be able to destinguish any difference in a 1 meter long wire with and without radioactive coating ? Probability zero.
In order to get a readable value you need say 50 meter. Do we have enough radioactive material to cover the surface of these 50 meters ?
Even if we take a small wireAWG 38 = 0.1 mm diameter the problem still exists. And in such a small wire there are not that much copper-atoms to be ionized so the effect will be too small
So this is the reason why an LC-tank must be used for having a chance to measure the Q of the LC-tank.
Q is mainly determined by the Q of the inductance as the Q of a capacitor generally is way better than that of an inductor
Q for series-resonance
Q = Xl/ R
R being the resistance in ohm, Xl is reactance of the inductor
and for parallell-resonance :Q = R * squareroot of C/L
C for capacitance, L for inductance.
We need to observe the dynamics of the system. One way is to trigger a parallell-tank with a square wave ( knowing its resonance-frequency before) and watch the damping of the triggered oscillation. This then means that you need to build two precise identical LC-tanks using handpicked identical parts which must be selected by precise measurement of capacitance and inductance.
So, you see, there is a lot of work ahead if you want to be sucessfull.
Here is a german paper published by some old radio-professionals which gives you a circuit at the end using a simple NE555-Timer to
perform such a test
http://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/upload/Guetemessung%20mit%20Rechtecksignal.pdf (http://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/upload/Guetemessung%20mit%20Rechtecksignal.pdf)
Text below the first scope-screenshot explained : Kreisgüte = Q = number of oscillations times 5,
condition: amplitude Uss has reached half of the start-value. You have to visually count the number of oscillations along the time-scale
to that point where the amplitude has fallen to half of the start-value and then multiply this number by 5.
Some additional points to take into consideration:
Bild 58a shows a test-method using a trigger-coil. The trigger coil must be just 2 or three windings and loose coupling to the LC-tank so that the lc-tank is not "forced"by the trigger-coil to follow its frequency because than you will not see the resonance clearly.
resonant Frequency of the lC-tank should not exceed 10 Megacycles as the capacitance of the probe is distorting the resonance-frequency.
Bild 58b uses the circuit at the end of the document ( build into a box ) triggering the LC-tank with the 1 picoFarad capacitor.
LC-tank to be tested is located at the lower right corner ( 500p - Lx )
Kator01
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Interesting kator so its similar to a geiger in princip. The particle shoots thru the neon gas,leaving string of ions,increases conductivity of the neon until,flash,the geiger registers sound on speaker.in other words,will do similar thing for copper wire,ie.increaseit conductivity. Do you remember the chinaman with the graphene perpetuum battery,the idea there was loosely bound fermi electrons,almost supraconduct,then shoved between static potential of gold and silver in electrolyte..
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profits,
no I hav`nt heard of this graphen perpetuum battery. Is there information you have about this battery ?
Kator01
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Kator01, that is an excellent pdf, thank you. I expect to see exactly what the document shows when the capacitor discharges. The only difference is the power involved. The 0.25uF at 7000V carries a charge of 0.5CV^2 or 6 joules. it discharges in the 1uH inductor . I'm not sure if it discharges in 1/2 or quarter of a cycle, I dont have time to look it up right now, but even in 1/2 a cycle (resonant F =300kHz , we are looking at 6J/1.6x10^-6s. 3.6MW pulse. Wow, is this correct??
If these alpha particles only act on a few mils, then no problem, since the rf skin effect forces the current more to the surface.
The coil shown is pure copper and about 3/4 inch tall, so the resistance is very small. The capacitor leads will have the most resistance.
Telecom, your idea of converting to light is awesome, but a patent I have mentions that the efficiency is very, very low. Also I only have uranium which I believe is too weak to make anything fluoresce. The same patent also discusses pn juctions generating voltage from radiation.
More from me tomorrow guys....
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Indeed kator http://www.technologyreview.com/view/427140/graphene-battery-turns-ambient-heat-into-electric-current/ what these guys shouldve done was dissolve uranium chloride into their solution.holy shit..
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Then in 1954 harold colman goes and shoves cadmium,calcium phosphate,cobalt chloride,carbon in a quartz tube,then shoves powder zinc on one end,powder copper on the other end,bombs it with 300mhz rf and gets radio-activity from it and huge electric power?
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Dear profitis, its all very exiting, but let's take it slow or we will give up prematurely. I can probably try the Coleman but only with 1kw at 27mhz. Moray is the most credible of the lot. Brown has all sorts of configurations in his descriptions. Strontium 90 and Beryllium in one, Radium thorium and uranium in another. In a more rare 1987 speech I have I thinks he talks just of radium. Gets a bit confusing. Let's see if uranium helps increase the Q of the coil and move on from there.
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@pomodoro
"we are looking at 6J/1.6x10^-6s. 3.6MW pulse. Wow, is this correct?? "
calculation is correct. But actually its hard to observe a single puls, better is to watch the decay or damping of the oszillation.
@profitis: thanks to the battery-link. Yeah what if we put that readioactive stuff into the solution.... Holy shit = Holy Grail he he. Lot of possibilities. One thing came to my mind wile reading this is the negative electro-potential of the EZ-Water ( You had a chance to read Dr. Pollack book-preview ? )
This sentence here caught my attention: "
we present a graphene device with asymmetric electrodes configuration to capture such ionic thermal energy and convert it into electricity"
So we need to know more about the setup of this cell.
I will sent this link to Murray Smith, he is the top graphe guy well equipped with ethics and the effort to create cheap graphen-products
( Graphene-ink ) in different variations.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RobertMurraySmith (http://www.youtube.com/user/RobertMurraySmith)
products:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/conductive-ink#home (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/conductive-ink#home)
Kator01
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Ok pomodoro.if you can get a single anomoly going twil be a step,no,leap in the right direction.my head is buzzing with all the zig-zag ways this can go.I can think of about 10 different electrochemical experiments worth trying out but more on that later.
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Exellent kator.yes I got pollaks vibes. send the link to mr smith he's experiments are cool.brings awareness to 'the other side' of possibility.ps.those dirac electrons are already half-floating around free,what's a dose of gammas,beta's,alphas going to do?going to cook them ofcors lol,jumping beans
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Back to the drawing board , 9kV discharge and no oscillations.
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Take some filter paper,soak with silver nitrate sol,evaporate near the toaster to dry pomodoro.then place a few uranium crystals ontop one piece,nothing on the other.leave in the dark.it will give us an idea of the full power obtainable from natural uranium.
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Each and every particle will split 30000 silver nitrate molecules.you will be able to create silver-based electrochemical systems with this.uranium will recharge our silver-based batteries.
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Rubidium takes a month to fog a photographic film.uranium takes a few hours.2Ag + I2 >< 2AgI + energy
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When I finish this Moray stuff I might have a look. I need to concentrate on this. Lots do do here first. Here is the next coil /cap combo. Seems a lot better, but still loses too much too quickly. Picture shows 7000v dumped into coil. Switching by hand or by spark gap makes little difference in the decay.
I'd like to get the Q considerably higher before I paint it with uranium.
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Why wait pomodoro? Let us calculate the ratio of particle loss emitted from uranium vs the faraday gain from split silver iodide in a day on a photographic plate.I'l put my money on it being around 30 000 - 1.realisticly speaking,this is the best way to go.and it falls in line with laws of physics,even the 2nd law
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This type of photogalvanic cell will undoubtedly work if we are to believe in marie curies infamous photographic plate experiment.it will convert maybe 30%(compare to betavoltaics 2%) uranium's natural radioactivity to electricity.
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I'm no good at multitasking, so profitis, by all means research that cell and keep notes. When I've exhausted the Moray/Brown ideas then I might move on to this cell. A problem with this cell of yours is that nitrate is consumed and cell will foul up with nitrite. Anyway be useful on the current topic please - what is the best way to plate the copper coil or silver plated coil with uranium. I want to plate the outside of it with a thin uranium plate.
I need to improve the Q of the LC combo and make it a very reproducible setup. a Q or 100+ is what I'm after. I could silver plate the coil but I need to make sure it is the coil that is being inefficient. It could well be the spark that occurs as the coil and capacitor leads are brought together.
The LC circuit will be tested both with high voltage/huge current (as Brown used) and also with Kator's Q measuring system as in the pdf. If the alpha particles do increase the Q with uranium, then there is a strong chance that radium could have not only increased the Q but also allowed continuous oscillation.
This is the first time I've heard of anyone actually trying this and not just regurgitating theories.
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Nope.Chlorine gas liberated at anode by radiation will simply re-oxidize NO2- ion pomodoro.its cyclic.here's a simpler chemistry based on I2/I- redox system:
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I'm going to google quik to find out about a method to plate for your experiment pomodoro.
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The best that I can come up with is to bake a thick syrup of that nitrate around those wires.all nitrates decompose to oxides at a certain temp.the uranyl ion UO2- appears to be highly electropositive much like other rare-earths (lanthanum etc)
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What about plating?
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@pomodoro,
your scope shows a frequency of about 170 KHz. Can you please tell me the value of your capacitor ? I am not sure if it reads 0.33 µF.
The coil made from copper-foil in pic IMG_20140930_114027.jpg (http://www.overunity.com/14976/nuclear-resonat-battery-test-soon-to-come/dlattach/attach/142962/) will have enormeus self-capacitance so you will have capacitive losses and increase the bandwidth of the LC-tank. This coil is not feasible for this test.
Do you have an inductance-meter ?
My first impression is - if the value of C is 330 nF - that the L/C Realtionship is inappropiate.in pic ring2.jpg (http://www.overunity.com/14976/nuclear-resonat-battery-test-soon-to-come/dlattach/attach/143004/) I see a coil of very low inductance.
So the reactance of this coil is way too big for fg = 170 KHz, meaning that ist can not store enough magnetic energy for a good oscillation.
I will give you an example for a L/C-realation I had build:
Copper-coil line the one in pic ring2.jpg (http://www.overunity.com/14976/nuclear-resonat-battery-test-soon-to-come/dlattach/attach/143004/), same thickness of wire ( about 2 mm in diameter) , winding-diameter 20 to 25 mm, number of windings about 30. I didnt measure teh inductance with a meter.
LC-tank using this coil was build wit a 10 pF capacitor( ceramic )
This LC-tank was first shown to me by a professional engineer and hat a resonance-frequency of about 30 Megacycles !
So if you do not have lower values of capacitors ( aiming at this frequency) you will need a much bigger coil which can not be build without ferrite-core.
But please be patient I will come back later with more detailed information about certain core-material to use, just had a conversation with a specialist in electronic.
This setup will not serve your purpose
@profitis: wow where did you get this drawing of the Curie-Cell from ? Do you think it will work for Thoriumoxide ?
But I have to confess that I d o not know what kind of thorium-salt is used in these gas-mantle.
Just did some research and found this in the german Wikipediea: the gas-mantle was soaked in a solution of Cerium-nitrate and Thorium-nitrate. If burned, CeO2 and Th2O2 remains in this feeble burned structure ( picture at the right )
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Gluestrumpf2.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Gluestrumpf2.jpg)
So we could simply put into distilled water.
What do you say ?
Kator01
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@pomodoro I'm not sure about plating but there's got to be a way to electrodeposit UO2.seperating the uranium from the stable uranyl (UO2 ++) ion is a monster task so its going to have to be a glazed coat of oxide.I'm wondering how such a coat on thin-thin nichrome wire would affect resistance? @kator its easiest to just geta hold of uraninite or thorite minerals from ebay or mineral/gem supplier then dissolve in HCI or HNO3 to get desired salt for testing purposes.I drew those diagrams now but the idea was from years ago when I was testing rubidium/potassium for current.I actualy don't have any thorite or uraninite in stock but I will try get hold from gem suppliers here.use only tiny bit iodine crystals in that cell otherwize you swamp the anode with too fast corrosi.actually you don't even need the iodine,just natrium iodide(NaI)or KI,and some uranium or thorium chloride,iodide,nitrate,bromide,acetate.any soluble compound.
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@Kator
i wont be able to work on this till early next week, but yes I do have a L and C meter. The cap is 0.25uF but I think its more like 0.22 from memory and the new coil is just over 2uH.
Yes i do have some lower value caps, like the ones used in tube amplifier finals. pFs.
I was also under the impression that ferrite and iron cores are a bit lossy compared to air?
I have some powdered iron toroid cores, amidon red, good for 1kw and smaller ferrite ones, yellow but may not be amidon brand.
Regarding the thorium, I don't think its very active. Youtube videos show little activity when a geiger counter is put next to the mantles.
@profitis: The uranium would only turn a thin layer of the silver chloride back to silver. The water molecules would also absorb most of the alphas.
Guys there is a patent out there, which has been mentioned on this group before, that talks of copper oxide being important for the conversion of radium energy into electrons.
http://www.google.com/patents/EP2505807A2?cl=en
Something to look into if the uranium on copper doesn't work.
Also check out the Lemeir test with radium near an antenna. Its available as a pdf on the web.
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True pomodoro.uranium is puny-shit BUT it also releases gammas,x-rays,imagine tritium/radium infron.I think the way to go with uranium is to do a curie-style step-up enhancement of activity by exposure to other non-radio elements which undergo transmute then much more rapid decay.in other words uranium's neutrons or alphas are say 3Mev energy each,when they hit other element eg Bi they transmute to eg polonium with much faster decay but less Mev(perhaps Kev) hence bismuth will become more radio-active than the uranium to begin with.brown had beryllium in his sheet,maybe this is the key because alphas+ beryllium= neutrons=cascade transmute of gues what,copper
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Do you have any beryllium carbonates/oxides pomodoro.mix with the uranium?do you have a geiger. Omg..have a look at this http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/beryllium_copper is actually used for springs/tools
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Bit too creepy for me. I can't detect neutrons with the Geiger counter. So I guess anyone can make a neutron/beta source! Americium from smoke detectors and a thin beryllium copper shimming material.
If the uranium doesn't help the coil I'll start making uranium doped diodes and capacitors.
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Check for radiolysis of water too.drop a piece titanium metal into conc UO2(NO3)2 an look for tiny bubbles on surface.I'm playing around with this in the pic below.I've found no use for it yet
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These files are worth reading
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Pomodora,
the two Moray-Files are empty. It seems that there is problem with uploading files in both of stephans forums. In the german forum a similar problem occured more than one time.
Here is the Ferrite-Core-material ( N27, Siemens ), no airgap, AL 3900 nH, unfortunately a german supplier. But this gives you an idea what to look for.
http://www.ebay.at/itm/1-Satz-E-Kerne-1xOber-1xUnterteil-EC-70-34-17-Ferritkerne-AL-3900-nH-Frri-005-/361066772261?pt=Bauteile&hash=item541141b725 (http://www.ebay.at/itm/1-Satz-E-Kerne-1xOber-1xUnterteil-EC-70-34-17-Ferritkerne-AL-3900-nH-Frri-005-/361066772261?pt=Bauteile&hash=item541141b725)
My friend told me the there is a misconception even among radio- and Ham-amateuers that only an air-core can reach a high Q. I have to confess I didnt know it either that you can achieve with this core-material a Q up to 2000 !
One additional thing you have to know in order to get the best Q: do just on winding-layer in the middle-section, very thight to the core.
Than use different cap-values to get maximum of amplitude.
Kator01
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Thanks Kator, will turn my attention to ferrite coils now. If the ferrites I have are no good I will try the N27. I may need to miniaturize everything if the U does nothing and try Am from a smoke detector which is the closest thing we have to Radium these days. Radium being 5 million times as strong as U.
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Pomodoro,
I thought they have Americium inside. You have to check this before you buy these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium)
Yes, use ferrite-cores for a test but be sure that you have no air-gap. I have just found this one supllier here in germany for these Siemens-Cores. could not find any other on ebay.
Kator01
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Quick update.
I spent some time making different inductors, and the best, with a Q of 100 was an AM radio ferrite loop antenna. Others , including a pot core ferrite which gave me a huge 800uH with just 12 turns of enamelled wire had a Q of 50. The copper coil in the pictures was much also better with caps of less capacitance than the 0.25uF I previously used and also had a Q of 100. I only experimented with the AM antenna, which I resonated with a cap of about 100pF from memory.
Unfortunately, when I surrounded the coil of the ferrite antenna with the U salt there was no improvement in the Q when the LC circuit was pulsed.
I also tried putting the U salt in a plastic vial and waving close to an AM radio tuned to a faint radio station, just as in the pdf I uploaded, but there was no improvement.
I had a quick look at the mCElrath cold cathode tube patent, I was looking for some value for the current, between the cathode and anode, because the currents available with radioactive sources are incredibly small. For his tubes to be useful he would have had to have worked some magic as there is no way normal radioactive elements could give milliamps of current. Any ideas...
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Quick update.
I spent some time making different inductors, and the best, with a Q of 100 was an AM radio ferrite loop antenna. Others , including a pot core ferrite which gave me a huge 800uH with just 12 turns of enamelled wire had a Q of 50. The copper coil in the pictures was much also better with caps of less capacitance than the 0.25uF I previously used and also had a Q of 100. I only experimented with the AM antenna, which I resonated with a cap of about 100pF from memory.
Unfortunately, when I surrounded the coil of the ferrite antenna with the U salt there was no improvement in the Q when the LC circuit was pulsed.
I also tried putting the U salt in a plastic vial and waving close to an AM radio tuned to a faint radio station, just as in the pdf I uploaded, but there was no improvement.
I had a quick look at the mCElrath cold cathode tube patent, I was looking for some value for the current, between the cathode and anode, because the currents available with radioactive sources are incredibly small. For his tubes to be useful he would have had to have worked some magic as there is no way normal radioactive elements could give milliamps of current. Any ideas...
Hi
I just remembered that Bruce Perrault was always saying that it never worked.
Regards
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The pics show how there is no improvement in the Q of the coil when bathed in Uranium salt.
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More tests!
Uranium salt now inside a coil. The uranyl nitrate is touching the bare copper. Thin wax tape on the outside keeps it inside the coil. LC Q is about 30x5 , according to kator's method,or 150.
C is about 300pF for best Q.
Compare decay of oscillations with and without the uranium.
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Is there a difference?
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There is no difference. I'm going to charge the cap to a few thousand volts and discharge it through the coil next, to see if a strong magnetic field is required. If that doesn't give a tiny improvement in the Q then my personal conclusion is that Brown probably never had a working version either.
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You can't say that for certain pomodoro.Brown used beryllium in his alloy thus it must be important.neutrons are the one thing that will interact with just about any matter wether slow or fast.mix a beryllium salt with your uranium salt and see what happens.neutrons penetrate.alphas dont
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Not true profitis. Brown's patent is about alpha sources only. He uses 1mg of radium, some powdered thorium in a cardboard box!! and uranium rods. The powdered thorium burns in air but never mind that slip up. A year later, at a convention he forgets completely about this incredible 9kw invention and discusses the beta battery you mention. The beta battery is much weaker in power. No development of the patent battery is ever mentioned again. Money from investors comes in but a working model is never shown. Sorry but it smells fishy to me. Moray is far more credible.
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I don't think moray is any more or less credible than the next,we can only speculate until we hit on the facts.let's go back to basics: moray had uranium metal,bismuth,and a string of semiconductors shoved in a tube.he also had some sort of arial attatched to this conglomerate.what was going on in that tube? Semi-conductors job is to rectify,rectify what? Bismuths job is an neutron shield and alpha source post bombardment,alpha source post bombardment..alpha source post bombardment..
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You should be meausuring the uranium's geiger activity while pulsing it with electromagetism pomodoro.you might not register a change in the coils capacitance but you might register a change in geiger activity
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You should be examining f.e.t. too.field enhanced thermionic emissions of uranium.
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The increase in charged emission is supposed to be measured by an increase in the Q. I will rig up the geiger counter underneath the coil to check the difference. However a bigger problem has surfaced. To put some descent power through the coil, I have a 15kV 100pF capacitor being charged up to about 9 kV and a spark gap which discharges into the coil. The big problem is that the circuit that once had a Q of 150 now is lucky to have a Q of 10. The reason being that the spark gap chews up all the power. So instead of a massive current peak through the coil, the spark acts as a resistor. How do I get over this hurdle? Using a mouse trap as a fast switch didnt help either.
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The goal is to basicly hysterisis the paramagnetic domains in the salt to the point that the atoms get angry,unstable.I'm not sure if it will even be registerable on the Q-scope but might be registerable on the geiger.
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Hello folks,
just was busy with other things but I do not forget this topic here.
No difference ? I see a distinct difference but not where I expected it.
You have to look at the envelope of the damped oscillation
The nourane-oscillation shwows a more rugged or better irregular damping.
See edited pic.
The urane-socillation is much more smooth.
But in order to be sure about this one would nee a similar nitride wich is non-radioactive, because using a crystal
as core-material might offer some unsuspected effects.
I agree with profitis : any of those inventors like moray, Floyd Sweet, Stanley Meyer etc can not be trusted because the CIA has taken over the control of information presented at the web and elsewhere.
This is the reason why we have to be the pioneers again ( reinventing the wheel) no other way. Lot of work
By the way, pomodoro, why do you use such a high voltage burst as the effect might be well
hidden under this powerful energy-level you apply here ?
I would use the rc-trigger-method presented in the german paper. trigger with an squarewave-signal and use a
copper-coil ( 3 windings max ) as a trigger-coil - magnetic loose coupling to your LC-tank.
Edit: some other user posted this here in teh Helium4-Thread ( because Profitis talked about beryllium )
http://www.qsl.net/k0ff/Manipulating%20Neutrons%20in%20the%20Home%20Rad%20Lab/ (http://www.qsl.net/k0ff/Manipulating%20Neutrons%20in%20the%20Home%20Rad%20Lab/)
Kator01
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Thanks for the help kator and profitis but after trying many more experiments including some with thorium compounds I was unable to notice anything OU. If Brown really did build a NRB then the secret died with him.
After a small break I will tackle the Correa abnormal discharge tubes, as the patents are quite detailed. Keep an eye out for that one in a few weeks, as I work my way to building one of Morays sparking condensers.