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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 605814 times)

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #495 on: January 06, 2015, 04:57:27 PM »
Tinman:

See the attached image.

When I said the field would be at the maximum intensity, I meant the field inside the bar magnet.  That where the text "Max" is in the attached image.  On either side of the maximum strength field inside the magnet, the field is essentially the same with the same direction.  Sorry for not being clear.

Look at the two red loops in the picture.  The blue lines represent the rotational axis for each loop.  When the upper loop rotates about its axis, there will be almost no EMF generated.   When the lower loop rotates, there will be EMF generated, showing that the field is present.

If you can imagine perfectly straight field lines, then when you put a rectangular piece of iron in that field there will be no attraction force pulling the magnet in any direction.  However, the iron will line up with the field just like an iron filing.  That's the iron "falling" into its state of lowest magnetic potential energy.  Forget about where the magnetic field is coming from, it's just a thought experiment.

When you put a piece of iron alongside the center of a long rectangular magnet, the same effect is happening where you don't feel any force on the iron piece.  Referencing the diagram, you have a magnetic field inside the bar magnet going from right to left.  That will not affect the piece of iron.  Outside the bar magnet you have a nearly straight unchanging magnetic field going from left to right.  The iron piece is in that nearly constant unchanging field and therefore there is no net force on the piece of iron. However, the lower red loop in the diagram when spinning proves that the magnetic field is there.

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #496 on: January 06, 2015, 05:14:06 PM »
Chris and Tinman:

Please see the attached image.

The bulges and the cones are a result of the ferrofluid "falling" to the lowest possible state of magnetic potential energy.  There are gravitational effects and surface tension effects that also come into play.  The individual spikes are a result of a complicated quest for finding the lowest MPE.   I already linked to an excellent clip from the "Sixty Symbols" YouTube channel that explains this in more detail.

I have a feeling that for both of you this notion of "falling" into the state of lowest magnetic potential energy is a concept that is somewhat foreign to you.   When a piece of iron gets attracted to and sticks to the end of a bar magnet that's exactly what's happening.   When you bring a bar magnet close to a pile of free iron filings in dry air (not in an oil solution) you see exactly the same effect taking place.  You see the iron filings forming long spikes and tendrils.  If you don't understand this concept then please do your research online.

The thinner center "waist" in the middle between the bulges is primarily do to the fact that the ferrofluid is being pulled towards each pole.  As has already been described in my previous posting, there is a minimum of magnetic attraction in this zone.   So the ferrofluid is pulled toward each end, but the ferrofluid itself is "sticky" due to surface tension and you get the center "waist" as shown in the attached picture.

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #497 on: January 06, 2015, 05:17:28 PM »
Chris:

Look at my yacht!   I get paid $450 USD per hour to debate with you!

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #498 on: January 06, 2015, 05:58:15 PM »
Chris:

I am reposting this image because you seemingly ignored it.  MarkE had to remind you about what the viewing film is actually showing you.

I don't think I have ever seen a YouTube clip where someone uses magnetic viewing film and speaks intelligently about what it is showing them.  What I have seen are dozens of clips where people use the film and whatever pattern they are looking at is taken as "conformation" of what they are investigating.  They don't even know what they are looking at.

Come on people, surely you can do better than that.

MileHigh

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #499 on: January 06, 2015, 08:04:47 PM »
Why not find a pic of an actual Bloch wall kind of setup,, come on MH, you know what I mean,, 2 stacks of magnets barley pulled apart or not exactly lined up.

After you find that one, then look to find one that has a larger viewing window so that you can see the outside lines of force continue on with the normal path from long pole end to long pole end.

This is why I call this a local area effect,,  and all the pictures so far have shown this,, even the spin picture.
Why not?  Because a Bloch wall is a boundary between two unaligned magnetic domains.  The magnetic polarization rotates through the width of the Bloch wall.  In a permanent magnet, the vast majority of domains are aligned.  Therefore boundaries between unaligned domains are far and few between.  EMJUNKIE has been promotiong the completely nonsensical claim that at the center of a dipole magnet there is a Bloch wall.  He even offers the fantasy that these walls are easily seen in ferro fluid and magnetic paper demonstrations with bar magnets.

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #500 on: January 06, 2015, 09:00:52 PM »
Chris:

Look at my yacht!   I get paid $450 USD per hour to debate with you!

MileHigh

wow nice yacht! - doesn't hold water either ha?

tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #501 on: January 06, 2015, 09:14:15 PM »
Two reasons:

1) In the middle, most of the flux is confined within the magnet itself.
]
Bingo.

2) While swiping across the middle area, you are inducing as much positive voltage as you are negative, so what is the result?[/glow

And bingo again. North plus south =0

tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #502 on: January 06, 2015, 09:18:51 PM »
What is A + C?
A + C are the same value,only 180* out of phase. B has a value of 0.
A and C have a potential difference and B dose not.

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #503 on: January 06, 2015, 09:19:08 PM »
Why not?  Because a Bloch wall is a boundary between two unaligned magnetic domains.  The magnetic polarization rotates through the width of the Bloch wall.  In a permanent magnet, the vast majority of domains are aligned.  Therefore boundaries between unaligned domains are far and few between.  EMJUNKIE has been promotiong the completely nonsensical claim that at the center of a dipole magnet there is a Bloch wall.  He even offers the fantasy that these walls are easily seen in ferro fluid and magnetic paper demonstrations with bar magnets.

For MarkE, MileHigh and others that support Di-Pole Field line closure of Magnetic Field Lines:

Physics for MANY MANY Years has done an experiment, yes its repeatable, every day of the week, by children, yes children!

A long Solenoid, has NO MAGNETIC SURROUNDING IT

Every physics professor on the Globe, with an Equator at is centre, between the Poles of its very own Di-Pole, Where Gravity is 3% less, and many hundreds of other effects can be seen, would be ashamed to have such a bunch of fools on the planet!

You, who support Field Line Enclosure from pole to Pole - Have been proven WRONG! Children can prove you WRONG Science is laughing at you right now.

MarkE, Milehigh - believe what you want, but you've been proven wrong! Todays Science, not just me and others here, can prove your Imaginary and Flawed Compass Experiments to be beyond pitiful NON-SENSE!

Astro Physics even disagrees with this NON-Sense:



MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #504 on: January 06, 2015, 09:32:39 PM »
Chris:

Every physics and electronics professor is in agreement with what myself and Mark and others state.  We have the evidence also.

Only on Planet Bizarro does your theory make sense to the Bizarro people.  And it's still wrong there also!  It's the Bizarro people that have the problem.

Why 3% lighter on the Equator?  Without looking anything up, I know that the planet bulges from centrifugal force.  So you are farther away from the center of mass of the Earth.

F = G M1M2/r^2.

Probably a tiny tiny smidgen of that 3% factor is from the centrifugal force on the human body itself.  All of this could easily be calculated with a calculator.  I still remember the value for "G" also,  6.67 x 10^-11.   Don't ask me for the "Newton-bla bla bla" units though because that's hard to remember.  No Bloch wall in sight.

You are just completely deluded and it evident that nothing can be done.  It's a little bit shocking nonetheless.

Science is looking towards you with dismay.

MileHigh

NoBull

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #505 on: January 06, 2015, 09:39:08 PM »
What if you put a bar magnet in an empty solenoid coil and cut the magnet in half lengthwise (the cut is parallel to its length, which is also the direction of its magnetization direction) ?

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #506 on: January 06, 2015, 09:52:58 PM »
For MarkE, MileHigh and others that support Di-Pole Field line closure of Magnetic Field Lines:

Physics for MANY MANY Years has done an experiment, yes its repeatable, every day of the week, by children, yes children!

A long Solenoid, has NO MAGNETIC SURROUNDING IT

Every physics professor on the Globe, with an Equator at is centre, between the Poles of its very own Di-Pole, Where Gravity is 3% less, and many hundreds of other effects can be seen, would be ashamed to have such a bunch of fools on the planet!

You, who support Field Line Enclosure from pole to Pole - Have been proven WRONG! Children can prove you WRONG Science is laughing at you right now.

MarkE, Milehigh - believe what you want, but you've been proven wrong! Todays Science, not just me and others here, can prove your Imaginary and Flawed Compass Experiments to be beyond pitiful NON-SENSE!

Astro Physics even disagrees with this NON-Sense:
Once again you are worse than wrong.

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #507 on: January 06, 2015, 10:08:16 PM »
That is why I said pulled apart or not exactly lined up,, this does create a Block wall region.
You get a Bloch wall when:

1) You point two like poles towards each other.
2) You otherwise orient two adjacent domains so that they are not aligned N-S.  For instance at 90 degrees to each other.

The one place where you do not get a Bloch wall is between two aligned domains. 

So if one puts two magnets close to each other or in direct intimate contact and they both point pretty much the same way, there will be few Bloch walls.  EMJUNKIE has been jerking everyone's chain with his utterly and totally nonsensical farce that there is a Bloch wall bisecting a magnetic dipole.
Quote

Comparing that region to what is supposed to be found then is a starting point.

Then, as I mentioned, when you open the viewing window furhter and see what the rest of the feild lines are doing might allow for a simple observation to see if those interactions that would be seen either follow the Block wall region or change into the normal closed path shape.
Again to have a Bloch wall you need adjacent unaligned domains.  Since in a PM almost all the domains point the same way, there is no macro level Bloch wall.  There will be small localized walls only.
Quote

I would think that if this interaction is present then it should show over the entire range of interaction and not just within a local area field effect.

I know that I can blow a bubble within the existing field effect area,, just like I can blow a bubble under water,, so would doing that and having the bubble move past this assumed interactive area behave differently as it crosses that boundary?
If by boundary you mean Bloch wall, to paraphrase Tim Allen:  "There is no "quantum flux". There's no "auxiliary". THERE'S NO GODDAMNED BLOCH WALL. You got it? "  The conventional explanations account for all the observations you have brought to the discussion.  Multiple experiments have been offered that support the truth of those conventional explanations.  Where is the exception?

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #508 on: January 06, 2015, 10:23:21 PM »
Once again you are worse than wrong.

More DENIAL!!!! Science doesn't exist and we are all worms is that how it goes MarkE  :o :o :o

minnie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #509 on: January 06, 2015, 10:26:18 PM »



     Usually words used in electrical components have an every day meaning, eg "tank".
 Take "domain" and it means a realm or kingdom. So can I assume that when used
 in connection with magnets, say, domain would apply to the whole of a bar magnet
 if it was pure and fully magnetised?
                  John.