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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 605884 times)

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #420 on: January 05, 2015, 11:48:31 PM »
MarkE - No Insults were passed, only FACTS with Supporting Evidence!

Again you provide nothing like a cogent argument! All your arguments are based on is incorrect evidence proven wrong by Modern Science!

Again, this is a pointless debate, providing proof is not enough for those that refute FACTS Backed up by yet more FACTS! Its pointless debating with you!

Some people HELD ONTO the FLAT EARTH THEORY for many years after it was proven wrong as well!!!
How many times do you need to see that the field alignment through a dipole magnet is all in the same direction before you concede the falsity of this "magnetic equator" idea that you promote?  Alternatively, kindly show a reliable experiment that demonstrates your claim that the field surrounding a dipole magnet loops from each pole through the dipole center instead of continguously from one pole to the other.


MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #421 on: January 05, 2015, 11:49:32 PM »


   EMJunkie, obviously MarkE needs re-educating to modern scientific standards.
      There must be good education "out there" as indicated by the designers and
 and technicians who build things like medical scanners and things like the LHC,
 these devices must employ flawless magnetics.
    Where should we send him?
                  John.
Anywhere but Detroit!

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #422 on: January 05, 2015, 11:58:55 PM »


   EMJunkie, obviously MarkE needs re-educating to modern scientific standards.
      There must be good education "out there" as indicated by the designers and
 and technicians who build things like medical scanners and things like the LHC,
 these devices must employ flawless magnetics.
    Where should we send him?
                  John.

Hi John,

MarkE already has his mind made up, so does MileHigh and no doubt some others reading along - There is nothing wrong with this, except the fact is that they continue to PREACH Science which has been proven wrong for many years now.

They provide no Science to backup their claims, but claim an Imaginary Ride through a Magnet is proof, which can only be considered as delusional Insanity!

They are Nice guys in my opinion however, just stuck in their ways. My Granddad was a bit like this, Bless his soul!

Have a Great Day John ;O)

  Chris

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #423 on: January 06, 2015, 12:08:57 AM »
Not that it matters.

Back before the Internet,, yes there was a time when computers used modems that "talked" over the phone line,, anyway,, I played with the magnetic field a fair amount and one of the articles I got off of a BBS was on this Block wall thing and so I went looking.

I played in a friend of mines workshop, he fixed copiers for a living and let me play around in some unused space,, not to mention he let me have any and all parts I wanted of the copiers that were going to be junked.

With copier machines there is this stuff, or maybe was, called TONER, it is made up of very fine metallic spheres covered in carbon black and a plasticizer,, that is what gets fused to the paper in those old machines,, the carbon black and plasticizers that is,,

In the really old machines they also had fussor oil,, this was typically a silicone based oil and when it became contaminated with Toner it was thrown away.

So here I was playing around in the shop when one of my magnets went flying,, guess where it landed,, sure enough fero-fluid before there was any.

Another thing about toner,, being 0.5 microns in diameter and all,, is that it will fly around in the air for a long time,, but you can use a heat lamp to fuse them together and lock in a shape.  Did that for some 3-D magnetic field printing :)

After all that playing around I determined that a few things were not exactly correct,, the magnetic field has a sphere of influence,, this does not mean you are seeing the field per say but what it is doing,, small nit-pic but then when you do other stuff it helps to make more sense out of things.

I never found this Bloch Wall, I did find that a single slice of viewing stuff does not do a very good job of showing all of what is going on,, it provides for an idea of what is going on and that is about it.

Spheres behave similar to but not exactly the same as long'ish fillings,, close but not exact.

There is a region around the midpoint between poles where the two forces of attraction and the two forces of repulsion balance out and show no apparent force of attraction or repulsion when you are using something like a nail or a needle to "feel" this field interaction,, the force is not gone but self canceled in its ability to repel or attract the metal object aka do work on the object,,,, but the force is still there as it was.

Long story short,

is the discussion over the field or over the local area effect from the field?

Hi Webby1,

We are currently debating the science behind a permanent Magnets Equator, also known as the Bloch Wall.

MarkE, MileHigh and TinselKoala say there is No Equator between the Poles of a Permanent Magnet!

Virtually everyone else here is saying there is.

If one can:

1: See it!
2: Measure it!
3: Feel it!

It EXISTS! Period!

The Earth has an Equator because of the Magnetic Field, so a Magnet has an Equator because of its Magnetic Field! Todays Science does not refute this equator in-fact it is supported in several areas in Science. Previous Posts have provided this proof already.

All the best

  Chris

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #424 on: January 06, 2015, 12:31:04 AM »
Hi Webby1,

We are currently debating the science behind a permanent Magnets Equator, also known as the Bloch Wall.
No, we are debating your unevidenced claims that:  1) The field around a dipole magnet curls towards its center from each pole. 2) That a Bloch wall occurs at the center of a dipole magnet.
Quote

MarkE, MileHigh and TinselKoala say there is No Equator between the Poles of a Permanent Magnet!
What I argue, and the others do as well is that the field around a dipole magnet runs contiguously from pole to pole.  It exhibits minimum curl and maximum parallelism to the dipole long axis at the dipole long axis midpoint.  The demonstration photographs above demonstrate as much.
Quote

Virtually everyone else here is saying there is.

If one can:

1: See it!
2: Measure it!
3: Feel it!

It EXISTS! Period!
Then you must account for the demonstration photograph above that shows that we see the field is parallel adjacent to the dipole midpoint, we measure the strong curl near the poles, and very little curl near the dipole midpoint, and the compass pointer feels that field gradient as we move it around the dipole magnet.
Quote

The Earth has an Equator because of the Magnetic Field, so a Magnet has an Equator because of its Magnetic Field! Todays Science does not refute this equator in-fact it is supported in several areas in Science. Previous Posts have provided this proof already.

All the best

  Chris
You have so far failed to demonstrate these claims of yours that have been refuted by countless experiments and machines.

tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #425 on: January 06, 2015, 12:52:07 AM »
You will obtain the highest voltage reading at point B, but not because of maximal coupling. It comes down to net flux.

At the ends of the coil, positions A and C, the net flux passing through your pickup coil will be significantly lower than what passes through in the middle. The reason being because at the ends, the curling flux has not diverged that much, and most of it will pass through the pickup coil. Therefore, there will be two flux paths (roughly the same net magnitude) passing through the pickup coil, but in opposing directions, largely canceling each other out.

In the middle position point B, the flux density outside the coil is significantly lower (due to the curl) so there will be a higher net flux passing through the pickup coil in this case.

In both cases, all the flux generated within the coil diameter passes through the pickup coil.
Thanks poynt
This of course is exactly what my test setup showed.my uestion would be now is why when the center of a magnet (between the dipole) is passed across an inductors core, no power is generated if this is the point of the largest part of the flux field.MarkE seems to think there will be power generated (unless he misinterpreted my question), but as we know, there is none.

MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #426 on: January 06, 2015, 01:05:58 AM »
Thanks poynt
This of course is exactly what my test setup showed.my uestion would be now is why when the center of a magnet (between the dipole) is passed across an inductors core, no power is generated if this is the point of the largest part of the flux field.MarkE seems to think there will be power generated (unless he misinterpreted my question), but as we know, there is none.
Tinman, but of course the transformer works for coils over the middle.  In fact that is where it works the best.  The field there is maximally parallel to the core and perpendicular to the windings.  It is as close to perfect in the middle as it is going to get.  Do you see cost conscious transformer manufacturers keeping windings away from the centers of their cores?  Why do you think they wind contiguously right through the center if power transfer is deficient there?  How about solenoid manufacturers? 

tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #427 on: January 06, 2015, 01:38:16 AM »
Tinman, but of course the transformer works for coils over the middle.  In fact that is where it works the best.  The field there is maximally parallel to the core and perpendicular to the windings.  It is as close to perfect in the middle as it is going to get.  Do you see cost conscious transformer manufacturers keeping windings away from the centers of their cores?  Why do you think they wind contiguously right through the center if power transfer is deficient there?  How about solenoid manufacturers?
The later half of my post was in regards to PMs on a rotor, as it was in my post where you answered-but it is.
You pass the center of a pm past an inductors core, and no power is generated. But with this electromagnet test, most power is generated at the center of the magnet (electromagnt)

synchro1

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #428 on: January 06, 2015, 01:42:16 AM »
These three guys keep everyone on the same tedious treadmill simply to sidetrack any meaningful discussion. The best approach is just to ignore them. They're just a pack of cheap hustlers making suckers out of the rest of us with their constant and mind numbing distraction.

EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #429 on: January 06, 2015, 02:03:23 AM »
How many times do you need to see that the field alignment through a dipole magnet is all in the same direction before you concede the falsity of this "magnetic equator" idea that you promote?  Alternatively, kindly show a reliable experiment that demonstrates your claim that the field surrounding a dipole magnet loops from each pole through the dipole center instead of continguously from one pole to the other.

I could spend hours wording an educational essay but anyone that has been following, will see that every post I have already posted is just that! Instead, I will let a Picture say a Thousand words: (I wonder if you can guess where the equator is?)

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #430 on: January 06, 2015, 02:15:41 AM »
I could spend hours wording an educational essay but anyone that has been following, will see that every post I have already posted is just that! Instead, I will let a Picture say a Thousand words: (I wonder if you can guess where the equator is?)

Pictures of the world and ferrofluid have already been rejected Chris as not advancing your argument.  You mocked my "travel through a magnet" discussion as being silly.  What I said was real, it's your pictures that are silly!

I am going to find a good magnetic field example from my favourite YouTube guy who is a teacher in real life.  You look at his paper talk and if you know basic calculus it will help also.  I will come back in a follow-up posting with the link or links,  Please watch the clip(s) because they will be the real thing.

We are still waiting for you to make a case for your claims.

MileHigh

tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #431 on: January 06, 2015, 02:24:08 AM »
I could spend hours wording an educational essay but anyone that has been following, will see that every post I have already posted is just that! Instead, I will let a Picture say a Thousand words: (I wonder if you can guess where the equator is?)
There is defently a field transition at the center of the dipole . The field to the left of the dipole center is different to that of the right of the dipole center.

poynt99

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #432 on: January 06, 2015, 02:28:44 AM »
EMJ,

Is it your understanding that a Bloch wall exists in a simple energized solenoid electromagnet?

What is your understanding of the characteristics of the magnetic field around an energized straight piece of wire?

.99

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #433 on: January 06, 2015, 02:30:01 AM »
There is defently a field transition at the center of the dipole . The field to the left of the dipole center is different to that of the right of the dipole center.

This is wrong.  The field is fundamentally the same.  The center of the dipole will have the highest strength field, but the direction of the field does not change.  On either side of the center line of a magnet or a solenoid the field is essentially the same.  On either side of the center line the field will be slightly less strong as determined primarily by the geometry but this is not significant.

I have asked Chris about half a dozen times now to define the "Bloch wall" at the center of a magnet and he won't do it.

MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #434 on: January 06, 2015, 02:35:03 AM »
Chris:

Take a look at this clip.   "The Magnetic Field due to a Toroid."

This clip is real science.  There is no "Bloch wall" in sight.  He uses techniques similar to my "traveling through a magnet."

Look at the formula, all of it is derived through logical deductive reasoning, nothing else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCSHcftPAIM

This is real science, the real deal without any funny shenanigans going on.