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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 394748 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #285 on: January 03, 2015, 02:27:03 AM »
OK ,im lost.
How or why dose the field turn around when you do,and exit where you entered?.

I am not quite sure I follow you.  When I "travel" through the magnet, my nose is always pointed in the same direction.  I start from just outside the south end of the magnet, and I emerge just outside the north end of the magnet.   The magnetic field is always pointing in the same direction as my nose the whole time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #285 on: January 03, 2015, 02:27:03 AM »

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #286 on: January 03, 2015, 02:34:06 AM »
Christ, these people have confused magnitude for direction.  Optical illusion "leads out" massive delusion.

MarkE,

massive delusion? Of Blind Incompetence?

See, I provided references and HARD Data, you have nothing of the sort. And what's more cant!

massive delusion, I see, side by side with Blind Incompetence.

OU.com is full of Keyboard Junkies that simply are incompetent to learn anything new. No wonder you people have nothing running! You people need to get off your LAZY arses and do some work! with Open Minds! Five senses connected to a working brain will be the only thing that progress the common good!

Bill Alek is right on target!!!! You people shot him down even after providing Scientific Evidence! How many times are you going to let "IT" get away from you before you open your minds!

Or is it that, only your fingers get a workout?

With regrets and a saddened disrespect for Ignorance

Chris Sykes


Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #287 on: January 03, 2015, 02:45:45 AM »
MarkE,

massive delusion? Of Blind Incompetence?

See, I provided references and HARD Data, you have nothing of the sort. And what's more cant!
Kindly look at your supplied data.  Look carefully.  See what those pretty light patterns really mean.  If your hypothesis is as in the graphic you posted a couple of posts back, that the field of a dipole magnet really goes from one end to the center instead of all the way around the magnet, then there are plenty of experiments that could be performed to demonstrate such behavior by simply using a long dipole.  The problem is that is not what happens when we investigate long dipoles.
Quote

massive delusion, I see, side by side with Blind Incompetence.

OU.com is full of Keyboard Junkies that simply are incompetent to learn anything new. No wonder you people have nothing running! You people need to get off your LAZY arses and do some work! with Open Minds! Five senses connected to a working brain will be the only thing that progress the common good!
Data:  Reliable data tells all.  Your data does not actually support your conclusions.  I don't see value hurling insults at you for your mistake.  I see value in encouraging you to look at your data and understand what it really means.
Quote

Bill Alek is right on target!!!! You people shot him down even after providing Scientific Evidence! How many times are you going to let "IT" get away from you before you open your minds!
I am sorry but Bill Alek has utterly and totally failed to support his extraordinary propositions.  If a day should come that he can actually support his claims with reliable data, then I will think better of his claims.
Quote

Or is it that, only your fingers get a workout?

With regrets and a saddened disrespect for Ignorance

Chris Sykes
It is good that you abhor ignorance.  Don't succumb to it because doing so lets you believe what you would like as opposed to finding out what is true.  That cuts all ways.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #287 on: January 03, 2015, 02:45:45 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #288 on: January 03, 2015, 02:46:43 AM »
I am not quite sure I follow you.  When I "travel" through the magnet, my nose is always pointed in the same direction.  I start from just outside the south end of the magnet, and I emerge just outside the north end of the magnet.   The magnetic field is always pointing in the same direction as my nose the whole time.
Ah i see,you did a typo.
Quote your post:-before i enter the south end--When i emerge from the south end.
Im guessing that should have been-when i emerge from the north end.
I did highlite it in red in my reply.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #289 on: January 03, 2015, 03:03:44 AM »
Chris:

I read through the pdf.  The first issue is your statement that it is "peer reviewed."  To me that means it's a paper that is published in an academic journal.  My instincts are telling me that "peer reviewed" for you means people that you know of in the realm of free energy and alternative stuff.  They are usually not university educated from my experience and sometimes their "academic credentials" come from those "mills" that crank out a doctorate that you can hang on your wall for a price.

So the paper is not peer reviewed by any stretch of the imagination.

When I read the paper I can't be sure if the language and terminology is legit or not because I am out or my realm.  However, it doesn't strike me as being 100% legit but it is just a feeling.

I explained what you were seeing in the magnetic viewing film a few postings back.   You still cannot or will not do a "drive through" of a magnet like I did and explain the mechanics of your alleged Bloch wall at the center of a magnet.   Why is that?   Why can't you explain in real terms what the alleged Bloch wall is?

On the other hand, the model for a magnet with no Bloch wall is the accepted model.   If you cut a series of tiny slits into a bar magnet to locate the alleged Bloch wall the only thing that you will find with a Hall sensor is a continuous unidirectional magnetic field just like I described.  The iron filings do not lie, they orient themselves in line with the external magnetic field.  The magnetic field model with no Bloch wall makes perfect sense.

I can't explain the specific optical effects in the pdf.  However, those effects are related to reflection and refraction of light off of magnetically polarized strings of fine particles.  If I had a ferrofluid viewer myself I could play with it and get a feel for it.  I wonder if the pictures are just "cherry picked" pictures that show the desired optical effects.  Just like the vast majority of people that play with magnetic viewing film don't understand what it is showing them or how to use it, I can only suspect that some people that play with ferrofluid viewers suffer the same issues.

The magnetic field around a bar magnet is the same as they have been saying it is like since the 19th century.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #289 on: January 03, 2015, 03:03:44 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #290 on: January 03, 2015, 03:04:56 AM »
Kindly look at your supplied data.  Look carefully.  See what those pretty light patterns really mean.  If your hypothesis is as in the graphic you posted a couple of posts back, that the field of a dipole magnet really goes from one end to the center instead of all the way around the magnet, then there are plenty of experiments that could be performed to demonstrate such behavior by simply using a long dipole.  The problem is that is not what happens when we investigate long dipoles.Data:  Reliable data tells all.  Your data does not actually support your conclusions.  I don't see value hurling insults at you for your mistake.  I see value in encouraging you to look at your data and understand what it really means.I am sorry but Bill Alek has utterly and totally failed to support his extraordinary propositions.  If a day should come that he can actually support his claims with reliable data, then I will think better of his claims.It is good that you abhor ignorance.  Don't succumb to it because doing so lets you believe what you would like as opposed to finding out what is true.  That cuts all ways.

MarkE,

So you're saying Howard Johnson's work is fake and Hall Probes don't work?

Please give me a break! Blind Following the Blind I have seen but this is amazing! A whole new level!

Wow, good luck, I know you are really going to need it! How many hours have you spent on OU.com and what have you learned? Learned nothing?

You people are Doomed!

With regrets and a saddened disrespect for Ignorance

Chris Sykes


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #291 on: January 03, 2015, 03:07:55 AM »
Ah i see,you did a typo.
Quote your post:-before i enter the south end--When i emerge from the south end.
Im guessing that should have been-when i emerge from the north end.
I did highlite it in red in my reply.

Thanks Brad, I corrected my text.  When I try to proofread my own text within 20 minutes of composing it it is very difficult to do because my brain is one step ahead of what I (think) I am reading.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #291 on: January 03, 2015, 03:07:55 AM »
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Offline linoavac

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QMOGEN - community (magnetic motor)
« Reply #292 on: January 03, 2015, 03:16:00 AM »
QMOGEN - community
I am the man of this work http://blog.hasslberger.com/2011/12/magnetic_vortex_-_experimental.html
MAGNETIC VORTEX PROOF.

I invite you to our community of QMOGEN (very recente, since last year) (filtered news, >600members)
https://plus.google.com/communities/113932584951030663517/stream/3e863c2d-3e9a-43ea-9c22-1d95ffa75419

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #293 on: January 03, 2015, 03:25:01 AM »
I will bring it back to that bloody green magnetic viewing film.  Chris is just one of many that is tricked up by it.   He believes that there is a Bloch wall in the center of a magnet, and then he sees a lighter green line on his viewing film just where he expects the Bloch wall should be, and he says, "Voila!  There is the Bloch wall!"

This is a very dangerous thing and a few postings back you see my graphic explaining what he is actually seeing with the magnetic viewing film.

Chris is not even asking himself precisely why the alleged Bloch wall should cause that effect on the viewing film.  Going further than that, he is not even asking himself what light areas and dark areas on the viewing film actually mean.

You trip yourself up enough and you can believe in some kind of "new explanation" or "new reality" for what is going on.  However, often these "new realities" often only work for one cherry-picked test and don't work for other tests.

For Chris, this phenomenon has extended to his transformer tests.  He claims one of his transformer tests is "slightly over unity" but all that I see is a strange funky and lossy transformer.  Proper measurements would confirm that the transformer setup is lossy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #293 on: January 03, 2015, 03:25:01 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #294 on: January 03, 2015, 03:32:47 AM »
@Mark E
Quote
Look carefully.  See what those pretty light patterns really mean.  If your
hypothesis is as in the graphic you posted a couple of posts back, that the
field of a dipole magnet really goes from one end to the center instead of all
the way around the magnet, then there are plenty of experiments that could be
performed to demonstrate such behavior by simply using a long dipole.  The
problem is that is not what happens when we investigate long dipoles.

I know I should just walk away from this one but it would seem to me the magnetic field is just another dipole field as shown below. As such the near field does not necessarily need to mirror the far field which becomes more and more spherical the further it reaches outward. If the magnetic field is a reflection of the electric field mathmatically then why wouldn't we see it as such conceptually?. I find it hard to believe we would model all our dipole fields in a similar manner and then say well no not this one the magnetic field is different, is it?.
I would also agree with milehigh's analogy of moving through a magnet and seeing a multitude of smaller parallel magnetic fields however a magnet is not an external magnetic field any more than an electric dipole is an external electric field.
AC

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #295 on: January 03, 2015, 05:32:46 AM »
I will bring it back to that bloody green magnetic viewing film.  Chris is just one of many that is tricked up by it.   He believes that there is a Bloch wall in the center of a magnet, and then he sees a lighter green line on his viewing film just where he expects the Bloch wall should be, and he says, "Voila!  There is the Bloch wall!"

This is a very dangerous thing and a few postings back you see my graphic explaining what he is actually seeing with the magnetic viewing film.

Chris is not even asking himself precisely why the alleged Bloch wall should cause that effect on the viewing film.  Going further than that, he is not even asking himself what light areas and dark areas on the viewing film actually mean.

You trip yourself up enough and you can believe in some kind of "new explanation" or "new reality" for what is going on.  However, often these "new realities" often only work for one cherry-picked test and don't work for other tests.

For Chris, this phenomenon has extended to his transformer tests.  He claims one of his transformer tests is "slightly over unity" but all that I see is a strange funky and lossy transformer.  Proper measurements would confirm that the transformer setup is lossy.

MH:

Possibly Chris (and his peers) have a mental Bloch?  Or..."All in all...it's just another Bloch in the wall."  Pink Floyd.  (However, when viewed through the magnetic viewing film Pink Floyd actually looks green)

Sorry, I could not help myself.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #295 on: January 03, 2015, 05:32:46 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #296 on: January 03, 2015, 05:55:24 AM »
@Mark E
I know I should just walk away from this one but it would seem to me the magnetic field is just another dipole field as shown below. As such the near field does not necessarily need to mirror the far field which becomes more and more spherical the further it reaches outward. If the magnetic field is a reflection of the electric field mathmatically then why wouldn't we see it as such conceptually?. I find it hard to believe we would model all our dipole fields in a similar manner and then say well no not this one the magnetic field is different, is it?.
I would also agree with milehigh's analogy of moving through a magnet and seeing a multitude of smaller parallel magnetic fields however a magnet is not an external magnetic field any more than an electric dipole is an external electric field.
AC
If the conventional view is correct then the longer the dipole, the more the magnetic field aligns parallel to the solenoid central axis near the middle of the dipole.  If the hypothesized view were correct then near the middle of the dipole the field would curl developing what is at the exact center field lines that are only perpendicular to the dipole.  Such a curl would not be difficult to demonstrate.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #297 on: January 03, 2015, 05:57:12 AM »
MH:

Possibly Chris (and his peers) have a mental Bloch?  Or..."All in all...it's just another Bloch in the wall."  Pink Floyd.  (However, when viewed through the magnetic viewing film Pink Floyd actually looks green)

Sorry, I could not help myself.

Bill
Whatever happened to Fay Wray?

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #298 on: January 03, 2015, 05:58:52 AM »
Chris:

I read through the pdf.  The first issue is your statement that it is "peer reviewed."  To me that means it's a paper that is published in an academic journal.  My instincts are telling me that "peer reviewed" for you means people that you know of in the realm of free energy and alternative stuff.  They are usually not university educated from my experience and sometimes their "academic credentials" come from those "mills" that crank out a doctorate that you can hang on your wall for a price.

So the paper is not peer reviewed by any stretch of the imagination.

When I read the paper I can't be sure if the language and terminology is legit or not because I am out or my realm.  However, it doesn't strike me as being 100% legit but it is just a feeling.

I explained what you were seeing in the magnetic viewing film a few postings back.   You still cannot or will not do a "drive through" of a magnet like I did and explain the mechanics of your alleged Bloch wall at the center of a magnet.   Why is that?   Why can't you explain in real terms what the alleged Bloch wall is?

On the other hand, the model for a magnet with no Bloch wall is the accepted model.   If you cut a series of tiny slits into a bar magnet to locate the alleged Bloch wall the only thing that you will find with a Hall sensor is a continuous unidirectional magnetic field just like I described.  The iron filings do not lie, they orient themselves in line with the external magnetic field.  The magnetic field model with no Bloch wall makes perfect sense.

I can't explain the specific optical effects in the pdf.  However, those effects are related to reflection and refraction of light off of magnetically polarized strings of fine particles.  If I had a ferrofluid viewer myself I could play with it and get a feel for it.  I wonder if the pictures are just "cherry picked" pictures that show the desired optical effects.  Just like the vast majority of people that play with magnetic viewing film don't understand what it is showing them or how to use it, I can only suspect that some people that play with ferrofluid viewers suffer the same issues.

The magnetic field around a bar magnet is the same as they have been saying it is like since the 19th century.

MileHigh



MileHigh,

I was not going to get into this debate simply because for me, I have seen more evidence to support what I have shown regarding Bloch Walls and Magnetic Fields than most all other people will see in their entire lives!

Then I thought, well, if I can help just one person, then I will. It turns our I already have. So I will try to help more simply because if people are wanting to learn, make devices work on these principals and realise that the truth will always prevail, then I will try. Even though debating for the true for my self seems pointless, its not about me.

The Bloch Wall Exists!

1: One can Feel it!
2: One can See it!
3: One can Measure it!

Really, if one can do this much with the Bloch Wall, then debating weather it exists is the same as debating weather we breath Air! I have shown in my experiments that it Exists! Howard Johnson has shown in his experiments that it Exists! Richard E. Cadle has shown in his experiments that it Exists! Researchers for over a Hundred Years have shown that it exists!

URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWOKefrcpAg

Experiments with the Coriolis Effect can also prove that there is a Bloch Wall.

Ref: "In physics, the "Coriolis Effect" is a deflection of moving objects when the motion is described relative to a rotating reference frame. In a reference frame with clockwise rotation, the deflection is to the left of the motion of the object; in one with counter-clockwise rotation, the deflection is to the right."

URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MS3FM7bYas

The "Coriolis Effect" can be minipulated to actually show results in reverse. I can also provide experiment to show this.

The "Coriolis Effect" should be enough for most to prove that the Bloch Wall Exists! The "Coriolis Effect" dominates much of our weather systems! Cyclones actually turn in different directions depending on which side of the Equator they sit!

Really debating the "Coriolis Effect" it also to debate the "Bloch Wall" - Its a mute argument. It is there! It cant be denied! Too much evidence supports the "Bloch Wall"!

I hope your Imaginary argument of traveling through a Magnet is now disposed! If not then try doing an Imaginary "Coriolis Effect" maybe you will get the same result? Really you are arguing against so much evidence that youre wasting yours and Everyone elses Time!

Magnets are Real, the "Coriolis Effect" is real and I can provide an experiment to prove that its Magnetic in Nature, and the "Bloch Wall" is Real! None of this is going to go away! Facts are always with us, lies are forgotten.

Regards, and overly frustrated,

Chris Sykes

P.S: Use the Right Hand Rule on this Picture to see what's going on!

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #299 on: January 03, 2015, 06:13:43 AM »
Thought I would add a few more speculations, I have mapped many magnets using an Arduino/labview setup and a hall sensor probe as well as an array. The greatest field change is not actually from pole face to pole face but from 1/2 span(field middle point if you will) up to the edge of the pole face on a 1" Dia x 1/2" N42 neo magnet. Which was unexpected, pole face to pole face was less than the two measures from pole face to center.


I would agree with Milehigh that the bloch wall is poor terminology, Wesley Gary's neutral center doesn't quite cut it in my opinion however I would have no problem labeling the field change from pole face to mid-point as flux leakage. Now if my flux mapping is correct and the greatest field change per unit length is from magnet pole to magnet center or mid-point then it would seem to me the turning force of the field might be a function of the combined leakage of each individual dipole moment which constitutes the whole which I would consider as flux leakage.


What I do know as a fact is that the field does turn towards the mid-point in the near field, the how and why has yet to be determined.


AC

 

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