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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 395796 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #240 on: October 17, 2014, 02:56:43 AM »
@MagWe should remember that the concept of flying through the air was also spooky not long ago because most thought it impossible. I would agree this neo magnet compass is something new... to you, however I noticed this effect a very long time ago. Think about it, how small the compass needle is and how small and weak it's field is and how fast it tracks the Earths magnetic field. Now consider your magnet and how powerful it is in relation to a compass needle.
No offense but if were going to move forward people have to stop chasing smoke and mirrors. We must think clearly concerning what we think we see and why it is happening. Now which do you think is more likely... the Earths magnetic field just increased drastically or you just learned something new which should have been obvious?.
AC


"Now which do you think is more likely... the Earths magnetic field just increased drastically or you just learned something new which should have been obvious?."

Exactly. It should have been obvious before now. it should have been obvious to me, to Grum, to Bill, to Tinman. But their reactions, maybe not as strong as mine, were definitely in the 'SURPRISE' zone. And I bet that they and many many others that have played with magnets for years, other than say TK ;D , have had many chances of magnet play/experimentation to notice and recognize this over the years. These are the people I would like to find, ones that can show this from years ago, if there are any others than TK. ;)   

Mags

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #240 on: October 17, 2014, 02:56:43 AM »

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #241 on: October 17, 2014, 05:31:59 AM »
One other test I did today.  The air core toroid, when discharging the cap, produces a field through the center, as if it were wire wound in a loop instead of a toroid.  Magnet tips over one way only, unless you reverse the polarity of input.  The 1/2in x 1/8 x 1/16 will flip, just once, pulse after that nothing till you flip it over again.  Anywhere in the circle of the coil seems the same.

Odd for a toroid isnt it? ;)

Mags

Offline Newton II

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #242 on: October 17, 2014, 09:16:19 AM »
There must be something that act's against the other something :-\. What i mean is-one magnetic field acts against the other,wether it be like poles ,or unlike poles. You just cant have nothing interacting with another nothing ::) So what dose this invisable force consist of?.

Quote:  They are of such low frequency/long wavelength that they cannot be called "light" They are called what then?,and would a solar pannel see this low frequency/long wave length?.Wouldnt that be a hoot-throw some magnets on a solar pannel,and produce power without light :D


I think that question can be put this way : When you bring an iron piece near a magnet, it should simply induce opposite pole in the iron piece and leave it.  But why should magnet attract it with a force?


I have some more crazy questions:

Moving electrons produce magnetic field in a conductor carrying curent.  So, when you bring a repelling pole near it,  the repulsion force should act on electrons producing the magnetic field and electrons should be ejected out of the conductor.   But actually we see that repulsion force acts on mass of conductor as a whole imparting momentum on entire mass of the conductor itself. (which is the principle used in all motors)

When you subject a current carrying conductor to extreme repulsion, conductor itself will bend but electrons will not be ejected out.   Why?

Does it mean that electrons are tightly held to mass of the conductor?   If moving electrons are tightly held to the conductor, how they will move? 

And why they are called free electrons???  (when they cannot jump out of conductor subjected to repulsion?)

Can some 'genius' answer it?


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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #242 on: October 17, 2014, 09:16:19 AM »
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Offline Qwert

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #243 on: October 17, 2014, 02:56:48 PM »
Newton II (and others).
I guess this file should shed some light on magnetism:

http://www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/534/#.VEEP0clxg0U

Electromagnets for attracting non-ferrous metals

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #244 on: October 18, 2014, 12:53:57 AM »
Newton II (and others).
I guess this file should shed some light on magnetism:

http://www.overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/534/#.VEEP0clxg0U

Electromagnets for attracting non-ferrous metals

Hi Qwert,

Although there is not much info given on another book, perhaps you could try to search this book hinted at in this post, first by member Mk1 and then Magluvin:

http://www.overunity.com/11350/confirming-the-delayed-lenz-effect/msg357978/#msg357978 

When I had read Magluvin's description on that book, I though of this book you just uploaded but Magluvin wrote back then that it was not that book:

http://www.overunity.com/11350/confirming-the-delayed-lenz-effect/msg358021/#msg358021 

When you have some time, please try to look for the other book. 

Thanks, Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #244 on: October 18, 2014, 12:53:57 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #245 on: October 18, 2014, 04:09:24 AM »


I have some more crazy questions:

Moving electrons produce magnetic field in a conductor carrying curent.  So, when you bring a repelling pole near it,  the repulsion force should act on electrons producing the magnetic field and electrons should be ejected out of the conductor.   But actually we see that repulsion force acts on mass of conductor as a whole imparting momentum on entire mass of the conductor itself. (which is the principle used in all motors)

When you subject a current carrying conductor to extreme repulsion, conductor itself will bend but electrons will not be ejected out.   Why?

Does it mean that electrons are tightly held to mass of the conductor?   If moving electrons are tightly held to the conductor, how they will move? 


Can some 'genius' answer it?
It is my beliefe that free electrons only become free to move when a magnetic field is present. Lets look at the homopolar generator. Only when there is a magnetic field present in the area of the spining copper disk,will the free electrons flow through that disk. I really think that the homopolar generator holds many answers we seek,but no one as of yet has tried to piece together how the magnetic field and spin of the disk are interacting with each other.

Some here will say they know exactly how a homopolar generator work's,but cannot explain what the magnetic field actually is. Sure we know how to create it,and why it it is formed,but still dont know what it is. The other thing you have to ask is this-is it the moving electrons that produce a magnetic field,or is it the magnetic field that allows the electrons to move?.The homopolar generator says the latter is true-you need a magnetic field in order to get the free electrons to flow,and the stronger that field,the more electrons will flow.The homopolare generator produces a low voltage,but very high current,and as current is carried by electrons,then the higher the current MUST mean that more electrons are flowing.

Some things that stand out in a homopolar generator that may hold the answers are-
1-Stronger the magnetic field through the disk-the more current is produced.
2-The faster the rotation of the disk-the more current is produced.
Some odd things are-
1-reverse rotation of disk(with magnetic field in same polarity),and the current flow is reversed.
2-reverse the polarity of the magnetic field through the disk,and the current flow is reversed.
3-Current is produced weather the magnets are fixed or rotate with the copper disk.
4-Current isnt produced if the disk is fixed,and magnets are rotated around the disk.
5-As we have what is called the north field on one side of the disk,and the south on the other,then the disk itself must be in this neutral zone of the magnetic field they talk about-could this be why the current flow direction changes when the rotation direction changes?

Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction cannot be used to explain how the homopolar generator work's,as there is no change in magnetic flux. So they then decided that they would use the Lorentz force law to explain it's opperation.Quote: The force on an electron is proportional to the cross product of its velocity and the magnetic flux vector. In geometrical terms, this means that the force is at right-angles to both the velocity (azimuthal) and the magnetic flux (axial), which is therefore in a radial direction.
Now,the magnetic flux vector thing. Problem is that the magnetic flux within the disk is this neutral field(half north/half south).Since when can a current be produced using this neutral field?.And why dose current flow change direction by only reversing the disk rotation,when the radial force would remain the same regardless of rotational direction?.

There must be a flow of something between the north and south field of a magnet,and what ever this flow is made of is what is acting apon the electrons.Lets say the flow of this mistical matter is from north to south of the magnet's,and so this flow is through the copper disc. By flipping the magnets over so as we reverse the polarity across(through)the copper disk,we reverse the flow of this misticle matter-so this would explain the reverse in current flow through the disk. But why dose the current reverse direction when we leave the magnetic polarity the same,but reverse the direction of rotation of the copper disk :-\. Well maybe(just maybe) TA's theory on magnetic spin is right-i mean it fit's right into how the homopolar generator dose what it dose.Maybe the copper disk now has this spiral magnetic field within it,and the electrons are being pumped out of the disk much the same as water is pumped out of a centrifugal water pump. And like the water pump,if we reverse the direction of the rotor,we reverse the direction of flow.Also like in the water pump,if we spin the magnets over(spin the impeller over)we also get a reverse in flow.Is this why one of Tesla's homopolar generator design's used spiral rotor's?.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #246 on: October 18, 2014, 04:32:59 AM »
It is my beliefe that free electrons only become free to move when a magnetic field is present. Lets look at the homopolar generator. Only when there is a magnetic field present in the area of the spining copper disk,will the free electrons flow through that disk. I really think that the homopolar generator holds many answers we seek,but no one as of yet has tried to piece together how the magnetic field and spin of the disk are interacting with each other.

Some here will say they know exactly how a homopolar generator work's,but cannot explain what the magnetic field actually is. Sure we know how to create it,and why it it is formed,but still dont know what it is. The other thing you have to ask is this-is it the moving electrons that produce a magnetic field,or is it the magnetic field that allows the electrons to move?.The homopolar generator says the latter is true-you need a magnetic field in order to get the free electrons to flow,and the stronger that field,the more electrons will flow.The homopolare generator produces a low voltage,but very high current,and as current is carried by electrons,then the higher the current MUST mean that more electrons are flowing.

Some things that stand out in a homopolar generator that may hold the answers are-
1-Stronger the magnetic field through the disk-the more current is produced.
2-The faster the rotation of the disk-the more current is produced.
Some odd things are-
1-reverse rotation of disk(with magnetic field in same polarity),and the current flow is reversed.
2-reverse the polarity of the magnetic field through the disk,and the current flow is reversed.
3-Current is produced weather the magnets are fixed or rotate with the copper disk.
4-Current isnt produced if the disk is fixed,and magnets are rotated around the disk.
5-As we have what is called the north field on one side of the disk,and the south on the other,then the disk itself must be in this neutral zone of the magnetic field they talk about-could this be why the current flow direction changes when the rotation direction changes?

Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction cannot be used to explain how the homopolar generator work's,as there is no change in magnetic flux. So they then decided that they would use the Lorentz force law to explain it's opperation.Quote: The force on an electron is proportional to the cross product of its velocity and the magnetic flux vector. In geometrical terms, this means that the force is at right-angles to both the velocity (azimuthal) and the magnetic flux (axial), which is therefore in a radial direction.
Now,the magnetic flux vector thing. Problem is that the magnetic flux within the disk is this neutral field(half north/half south).Since when can a current be produced using this neutral field?.And why dose current flow change direction by only reversing the disk rotation,when the radial force would remain the same regardless of rotational direction?.

There must be a flow of something between the north and south field of a magnet,and what ever this flow is made of is what is acting apon the electrons.Lets say the flow of this mistical matter is from north to south of the magnet's,and so this flow is through the copper disc. By flipping the magnets over so as we reverse the polarity across(through)the copper disk,we reverse the flow of this misticle matter-so this would explain the reverse in current flow through the disk. But why dose the current reverse direction when we leave the magnetic polarity the same,but reverse the direction of rotation of the copper disk :-\ . Well maybe(just maybe) TA's theory on magnetic spin is right-i mean it fit's right into how the homopolar generator dose what it dose.Maybe the copper disk now has this spiral magnetic field within it,and the electrons are being pumped out of the disk much the same as water is pumped out of a centrifugal water pump. And like the water pump,if we reverse the direction of the rotor,we reverse the direction of flow.Also like in the water pump,if we spin the magnets over(spin the impeller over)we also get a reverse in flow.Is this why one of Tesla's homopolar generator design's used spiral rotor's?.

"Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction cannot be used to explain how the homopolar generator work's,as there is no change in magnetic flux."

Actually Faraday's law of induction is the only thing that accurately explains how the homopolar generator works.  That is, if you understand how the brush connected to the outside of the rotor, and the other contact to the center of the rotor, creates a "virtual wire" across the rotor, that creates a virtual wire that is constantly moving through a magnetic field (experiencing a constant change of magnetic field as long as there is motion).  The relative motion within a magnetic field is what produces a polarized current (DC).

Liberty

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #246 on: October 18, 2014, 04:32:59 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #247 on: October 18, 2014, 04:44:43 AM »
"Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction cannot be used to explain how the homopolar generator work's,as there is no change in magnetic flux."

Actually Faraday's law of induction is the only thing that accurately explains how the homopolar generator works.  That is, if you understand how the brush connected to the outside of the rotor, and the other contact to the center of the rotor, creates a "virtual wire" across the rotor, that creates a virtual wire that is constantly moving through a magnetic field (experiencing a constant change of magnetic field as long as there is motion).  The relative motion within a magnetic field is what produces a polarized current (DC).

Liberty
There is no change in magnetic field,nor is there a change in current direction-there for Faradays law of magnetic induction dosnt apply to the homopolar generator.Quote: Like all dynamos, the Faraday disc converts kinetic energy to electrical energy. This machine can not be analysed using Faraday's own law of electromagnetic induction. This law (in its modern form) states that an electric current is induced in a closed electrical circuit when the magnetic flux enclosed by the circuit changes. In Faraday's law, EMF is the time-derivative of flux, so a DC EMF is only possible if the magnetic flux is getting uniformly larger and larger perpetually. But in the generator, the magnetic field is constant and the disc stays in the same position, so no magnetic fluxes are growing larger and larger. So this example cannot be analyzed directly with Faraday's law.

The Lorentz force law is more easily used to explain the machine's behaviour. This law, formulated thirty years after Faraday's death, states that the force on an electron is proportional to the cross product of its velocity and the magnetic flux vector. In geometrical terms, this means that the force is at right-angles to both the velocity (azimuthal) and the magnetic flux (axial), which is therefore in a radial direction. The radial movement of the electrons in the disc produces a charge separation between the center of the disc and its rim, and if the circuit is completed an electric current will be produced.
There is no wire constantly moving through the magnetic field,as both the wire and field are stationary.
 Also the twin disk homopolar generator disprove's your theory Liberty,as both brushes are at the center of the carrying shaft-there is no outer brush. Are you sure your not thinking of a homopolar motor?.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #248 on: October 18, 2014, 04:45:37 AM »
It is my beliefe that free electrons only become free to move when a magnetic field is present. Lets look at the homopolar generator. Only when there is a magnetic field present in the area of the spining copper disk,will the free electrons flow through that disk. I really think that the homopolar generator holds many answers we seek,but no one as of yet has tried to piece together how the magnetic field and spin of the disk are interacting with each other.

Some here will say they know exactly how a homopolar generator work's,but cannot explain what the magnetic field actually is. Sure we know how to create it,and why it it is formed,but still dont know what it is. The other thing you have to ask is this-is it the moving electrons that produce a magnetic field,or is it the magnetic field that allows the electrons to move?.The homopolar generator says the latter is true-you need a magnetic field in order to get the free electrons to flow,and the stronger that field,the more electrons will flow.The homopolare generator produces a low voltage,but very high current,and as current is carried by electrons,then the higher the current MUST mean that more electrons are flowing.

Some things that stand out in a homopolar generator that may hold the answers are-
1-Stronger the magnetic field through the disk-the more current is produced.
2-The faster the rotation of the disk-the more current is produced.
Some odd things are-
1-reverse rotation of disk(with magnetic field in same polarity),and the current flow is reversed.
2-reverse the polarity of the magnetic field through the disk,and the current flow is reversed.
3-Current is produced weather the magnets are fixed or rotate with the copper disk.
4-Current isnt produced if the disk is fixed,and magnets are rotated around the disk.
5-As we have what is called the north field on one side of the disk,and the south on the other,then the disk itself must be in this neutral zone of the magnetic field they talk about-could this be why the current flow direction changes when the rotation direction changes?

Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction cannot be used to explain how the homopolar generator work's,as there is no change in magnetic flux. So they then decided that they would use the Lorentz force law to explain it's opperation.Quote: The force on an electron is proportional to the cross product of its velocity and the magnetic flux vector. In geometrical terms, this means that the force is at right-angles to both the velocity (azimuthal) and the magnetic flux (axial), which is therefore in a radial direction.
Now,the magnetic flux vector thing. Problem is that the magnetic flux within the disk is this neutral field(half north/half south).Since when can a current be produced using this neutral field?.And why dose current flow change direction by only reversing the disk rotation,when the radial force would remain the same regardless of rotational direction?.

There must be a flow of something between the north and south field of a magnet,and what ever this flow is made of is what is acting apon the electrons.Lets say the flow of this mistical matter is from north to south of the magnet's,and so this flow is through the copper disc. By flipping the magnets over so as we reverse the polarity across(through)the copper disk,we reverse the flow of this misticle matter-so this would explain the reverse in current flow through the disk. But why dose the current reverse direction when we leave the magnetic polarity the same,but reverse the direction of rotation of the copper disk :-\ . Well maybe(just maybe) TA's theory on magnetic spin is right-i mean it fit's right into how the homopolar generator dose what it dose.Maybe the copper disk now has this spiral magnetic field within it,and the electrons are being pumped out of the disk much the same as water is pumped out of a centrifugal water pump. And like the water pump,if we reverse the direction of the rotor,we reverse the direction of flow.Also like in the water pump,if we spin the magnets over(spin the impeller over)we also get a reverse in flow.Is this why one of Tesla's homopolar generator design's used spiral rotor's?.

"Some odd things are-
1-reverse rotation of disk(with magnetic field in same polarity),and the current flow is reversed.
2-reverse the polarity of the magnetic field through the disk,and the current flow is reversed."

Exactly. It is odd isnt it? ;D

Thats why I suggest that if the electron is the source of the magnetic field produced in the current carrying wire, then the electron must have a positive side to it and a negative side to it, in order for the electrons magnetic orientation to coincide accordingly when DC voltage is applied to the wire. The charge from the DC input causes the electrons to orient themselves  +- +- +- in the wire, therefore those affected electrons mag fields produce the same orientation around the wire. The more electrons affected by the input charge, the stronger the field around the wire due to those electrons being in the correct +- alignment and accordingly their field orientation.

Other wise, you can say it is odd and still wonder why.  ;) ;D I just came up with this the other day, as is totally plausible.  ;)

Same as moving the magnets field across the wire or copper disk. The moving magnetic field causes the electrons circular field to orient the electrons in a way that their + and - sides line up creating a charge in the wire + at one end of the wire and - at the other. And if the 2 ends of the wire have a load or are shorted, then current flows.


The wire is made up of imperfections and atoms are oriented all different ways. So the electrons magnetic fields are all a mix. So no measurable field around the wire. But if we hit that wire with say 40kv from a cap, there will be a lot of electrons lined up from one end of the wire to the other +- +- +- +-  and a huge magnetic field is produced, along with all the extra electrons in the wire introduced by the discharge..

Mags

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #248 on: October 18, 2014, 04:45:37 AM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #249 on: October 18, 2014, 05:06:02 AM »
There is no change in magnetic field,nor is there a change in current direction-there for Faradays law of magnetic induction dosnt apply to the homopolar generator.Quote: Like all dynamos, the Faraday disc converts kinetic energy to electrical energy. This machine can not be analysed using Faraday's own law of electromagnetic induction. This law (in its modern form) states that an electric current is induced in a closed electrical circuit when the magnetic flux enclosed by the circuit changes. In Faraday's law, EMF is the time-derivative of flux, so a DC EMF is only possible if the magnetic flux is getting uniformly larger and larger perpetually. But in the generator, the magnetic field is constant and the disc stays in the same position, so no magnetic fluxes are growing larger and larger. So this example cannot be analyzed directly with Faraday's law.

The Lorentz force law is more easily used to explain the machine's behaviour. This law, formulated thirty years after Faraday's death, states that the force on an electron is proportional to the cross product of its velocity and the magnetic flux vector. In geometrical terms, this means that the force is at right-angles to both the velocity (azimuthal) and the magnetic flux (axial), which is therefore in a radial direction. The radial movement of the electrons in the disc produces a charge separation between the center of the disc and its rim, and if the circuit is completed an electric current will be produced.
There is no wire constantly moving through the magnetic field,as both the wire and field are stationary.
 Also the twin disk homopolar generator disprove's your theory Liberty,as both brushes are at the center of the carrying shaft-there is no outer brush. Are you sure your not thinking of a homopolar motor?.

In a magnet, the magnetic field is produced by many little magnets.  That is why when you pass a wire through a continuous magnetic field (surface of a magnet), it produces current flow.  The same principle in a standard generator is also working in a homopolar generator.  The homopolar generator that has a brush on the outside of the rotor and a contact on the center of the rotor, takes the shortest path, which is a straight path (virtual wire) which is the lowest resistance path.  This "virtual wire" is only present when the rotor is spun, as that is the only time when a current is produced.  The magnetic field combines with relative motion to produce current flow.  That current flow will act like a wire that passes through a magnetic field.  The reason the voltage is low is because the wire is short.  The reason the current is high, is because the conductive platter performs as a wide, flat wire.  The movement of the wire, is due to the rotation of the platter, and the moving contact on the rotor, constantly moving the position of the wire in the magnetic field.  Faster rotation produces more output current.  A stronger magnetic field will also produce a stronger current.

With the above in mind, rethink how you understand the operation of the twin disk homopolar generator.

Liberty

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #250 on: October 18, 2014, 05:36:25 AM »
In a magnet, the magnetic field is produced by many little magnets.  That is why when you pass a wire through a continuous magnetic field (surface of a magnet), it produces current flow.  The same principle in a standard generator is also working in a homopolar generator.  The homopolar generator that has a brush on the outside of the rotor and a contact on the center of the rotor, takes the shortest path, which is a straight path (virtual wire) which is the lowest resistance path.  This "virtual wire" is only present when the rotor is spun, as that is the only time when a current is produced.  The magnetic field combines with relative motion to produce current flow.  That current flow will act like a wire that passes through a magnetic field.  The reason the voltage is low is because the wire is short.  The reason the current is high, is because the conductive platter performs as a wide, flat wire.  The movement of the wire, is due to the rotation of the platter, and the moving contact on the rotor, constantly moving the position of the wire in the magnetic field.  Faster rotation produces more output current.  A stronger magnetic field will also produce a stronger current.

With the above in mind, rethink how you understand the operation of the twin disk homopolar generator.

Liberty
Liberty
The reason you get a current flow when passing a wire through a continuous magnetic fiels is because the strength of that field cutting through the wire is growing as your wire approaches that field, and  diminishing as your wire leaves the field-AC current.The magnetic field in relation to the disk is constant and dose not change in strength-regardless of your virtual wire or not. Your virtual wire is alway in a constant(unchanging) magnetic field,regardless of where that virtual wire may be on the disk.

The twin disk HP generator has a full loop around the outer perimeter of both disk-this is the current flow conection between both disk,so there is no one contact point or virtual wire as you say. The output is then taken from the center of each disk shaft.There is also Tesla's design of a twin disk HP generator,which uses a steel belt to transfer current from one disk to the other. This also has a contact of 180* around each disk.
So you see,this virtual wire you speak of is not how the HP generator  is working,and thus the law of magnetic induction dosnt apply.

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #250 on: October 18, 2014, 05:36:25 AM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #251 on: October 18, 2014, 02:50:52 PM »
Liberty
The reason you get a current flow when passing a wire through a continuous magnetic fiels is because the strength of that field cutting through the wire is growing as your wire approaches that field, and  diminishing as your wire leaves the field-AC current.The magnetic field in relation to the disk is constant and dose not change in strength-regardless of your virtual wire or not. Your virtual wire is alway in a constant(unchanging) magnetic field,regardless of where that virtual wire may be on the disk.

The twin disk HP generator has a full loop around the outer perimeter of both disk-this is the current flow conection between both disk,so there is no one contact point or virtual wire as you say. The output is then taken from the center of each disk shaft.There is also Tesla's design of a twin disk HP generator,which uses a steel belt to transfer current from one disk to the other. This also has a contact of 180* around each disk.
So you see,this virtual wire you speak of is not how the HP generator  is working,and thus the law of magnetic induction dosnt apply.

I would agree that a current is generated as a coil approaches a magnet and as it leaves a magnet.  (Standard generator).  Further, it is known that a wire (not a coil) passing over a continuous (unchanging) magnetic field produces a current in the wire, as long as motion is present between the wire and magnetic field.  However, in this case, you cannot use a loop of wire (coil), as the current will cancel, and there will be no output.    In the case of the magnetic field being constant in relation to the disk, the latter case is the known reason for current flow.  It is the wire (conductive path) passing through a constant magnetic field (acting as a wire) that will produce a current.  Mr. Faraday was actually correct about induction, and is the basis of operation of the Faraday (HP) generator and the standard generator.

Liberty


Offline Newton II

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #252 on: October 18, 2014, 03:09:58 PM »

Some things that stand out in a homopolar generator that may hold the answers are-
1-Stronger the magnetic field through the disk-the more current is produced.
2-The faster the rotation of the disk-the more current is produced.
Some odd things are-
1-reverse rotation of disk(with magnetic field in same polarity),and the current flow is reversed.
2-reverse the polarity of the magnetic field through the disk,and the current flow is reversed.
3-Current is produced weather the magnets are fixed or rotate with the copper disk.
4-Current isnt produced if the disk is fixed,and magnets are rotated around the disk.


It may be for the reason that when you rotate the disc, the outer edge of the disc moves with higher velocity than inner edges of the disc to catch up with RPM. This may create some sort of 'gradient' or 'potential difference'  between  rim  and the centre making the electrons to flow.

In that case if you use a disc of very large diameter, it should produce a considerable gradient creating a higher voltage,  current flow depending on strength of magnetic field.
 
So, instead of using one thick disc if you use several thin discs separated and placed one above the other and rotate in a uniform perpendicular magnetic field, will it not improve the efficiency of the generator?

The explanations look  cranky,  but if you go on throwing arrows in the dark,  some arrow would reach the destination!



Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #253 on: October 18, 2014, 03:43:07 PM »
I would agree that a current is generated as a coil approaches a magnet and as it leaves a magnet.  (Standard generator).  Further, it is known that a wire (not a coil) passing over a continuous (unchanging) magnetic field produces a current in the wire, as long as motion is present between the wire and magnetic field.  However, in this case, you cannot use a loop of wire (coil), as the current will cancel, and there will be no output.    In the case of the magnetic field being constant in relation to the disk, the latter case is the known reason for current flow.  It is the wire (conductive path) passing through a constant magnetic field (acting as a wire) that will produce a current.  Mr. Faraday was actually correct about induction, and is the basis of operation of the Faraday (HP) generator and the standard generator.

Liberty
LibertyThe wire(conductive path) dosnt pass through a constant magnetic field,it remains in a constant position in relation to the magnetic field,as the brush on the outer rim never changes position-thus the line(potential wire)between the outer brush and center brush is stationary(fixed) just as the magnetic field is.There is no increase or decrease of magnetic field strength,nor is there a moving wire passing over that constant magnetic field(as the two brushes are in a fixed position)-so there is no induction taking place.In order to fully understand as to how the HPG work's,we need to know what exactly a magnetic field is. And in order to know what a magnetic field is,we need to know how the HPG work's-the two go together in understanding each other.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #254 on: October 18, 2014, 03:56:46 PM »
It may be for the reason that when you rotate the disc, the outer edge of the disc moves with higher velocity than inner edges of the disc to catch up with RPM. This may create some sort of 'gradient' or 'potential difference'  between  rim  and the centre making the electrons to flow.

In that case if you use a disc of very large diameter, it should produce a considerable gradient creating a higher voltage,  current flow depending on strength of magnetic field.
 
So, instead of using one thick disc if you use several thin discs separated and placed one above the other and rotate in a uniform perpendicular magnetic field, will it not improve the efficiency of the generator?

The explanations look  cranky,  but if you go on throwing arrows in the dark,  some arrow would reach the destination!

I agree with Newton II's explanation and think that there is merit in the "potential difference" theory (due to the difference in velocity from inside the disk, to outside, while immersed in a magnetic field, (to separate charge, preventing the charge from shorting out in the disk like an eddy current)). And in order for current to flow, it would have to form a conductive path to allow output of this generator to a load.  This may account for the other HP generators that Tinman was referring to.  For HP generators in general, it appears that the larger, the more it produces.  But as in magnet motors that operate on the gradient method, (magnet spiral style motor) the difference (gradient) is fairly small. 

Liberty

 

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