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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 361762 times)

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1680 on: January 26, 2015, 06:59:48 PM »
Mark E


some of the Boys are taking up a collection to send you to Charm school
all expenses paid , its a beautiful 6 week program [after the little boat ride]

Does the boat ride involve cement shoes ?

And is there enough space to squeeze in his arse kisser, the butt pirate ?

His shoe size is a ladies 3...same as his willie, I'm guessing.

Regards...



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1680 on: January 26, 2015, 06:59:48 PM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1681 on: January 26, 2015, 07:24:26 PM »
Chet:

I am going to draw up an analogy for you.  Now this analogy is going to be a stretch and I will admit that.  Nonetheless, the message is still there and it's valid.

The recent Philippine ferry boat disaster is the setting.  The ferry was sinking, SINKING, and the staff were telling the passengers to stay in their cabins.  Now, if you are one of the staff, and your supervisor gives you orders to tell the passengers to stay put, and yet you know the ship is sinking, what do you do?  Do you stick with the party line and follow unethical ridiculous orders because that's what they told you to do, or do you try to help saving people's lives and tell them to get out because the ship is sinking?  Are you a drone or can you think for yourself?

Now look at the case of Chris.  You have a group of people asking for measurements and data.  The guy struggles to demonstrate even a rudimentary knowledge of electronics.  He is pushing yet another dubious explanation for his claim.  He balks when asked to present some data.

Then you have the interested people that want to replicate, some skilled, some unskilled.  They are not blind, they read what is transpiring.  We can add to that group the generic supporters of free energy.  Between the two groups not one single person will ask Chris to back up his claims and show his measurements and data.  Sometimes it takes character and courage to ask for something.  Sometimes it just takes common sense.  Sometimes people cower in fear because of the current flavour of political correctness that they perceive around them.

The replicators that don't ask the claimant any questions are akin to the staff working on the ferry that are telling passengers to go back to their cabins.  They are afraid and they don't know what to do and they are afraid or unwilling to make a decision for themselves.  The supporters of free energy that are not replicating circle the wagons around them.

It becomes insanity.  A dude making claims of over unity refusing to offer up any proof and a bunch of willing replicators afraid to ask for any proof.  It's just a dance of the absurd.

Moving on, sometimes people say things that are so whackadoo that some satire and derision in response is a valid thing to do.  Wattsup is one of the people that sometimes has theories that would be more suitable in a low-budget 1953 sci-fi movie.

Instead of charm school, it's arguable that we need "common sense school" and "don't be afraid of the peer pressure school."   We could even send people like you to "recognize and fight against the double-standard school."

If you are on a forum all about claiming that you can show a system that outputs more power than you put into it, and the participants on the forum don't even ask the claimant for evidence of the claim, then you have a serious serious problem.  The forum becomes an ineffective non-productive fiasco.  It becomes a reality distortion zone.

Hopefully some of the people reading this will get the message for when the next claimant comes to pitch his or her concept.

MileHigh

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1682 on: January 26, 2015, 07:32:58 PM »
Chet:

I am going to draw up an analogy for you.  Now this analogy is going to be a stretch and I will admit that.  Nonetheless, the message is still there and it's valid.

The recent Philippine ferry boat disaster is the setting.  The ferry was sinking, SINKING, and the staff were telling the passengers to stay in their cabins.  Now, if you are one of the staff, and your supervisor gives you orders to tell the passengers to stay put, and yet you know the ship is sinking, what do you do?  Do you stick with the party line and follow unethical ridiculous orders because that's what they told you to do, or do you try to help saving people's lives and tell them to get out because the ship is sinking?  Are you a drone or can you think for yourself?

Now look at the case of Chris.  You have a group of people asking for measurements and data.  The guy struggles to demonstrate even a rudimentary knowledge of electronics.  He is pushing yet another dubious explanation for his claim.  He balks when asked to present some data.

Then you have the interested people that want to replicate, some skilled, some unskilled.  They are not blind, they read what is transpiring.  We can add to that group the generic supporters of free energy.  Between the two groups not one single person will ask Chris to back up his claims and show his measurements and data.  Sometimes it takes character and courage to ask for something.  Sometimes it just takes common sense.  Sometimes people cower in fear because of the current flavour of political correctness that they perceive around them.

The replicators that don't ask the claimant any questions are akin to the staff working on the ferry that are telling passengers to go back to their cabins.  They are afraid and they don't know what to do and they are afraid or unwilling to make a decision for themselves.  The supporters of free energy that are not replicating circle the wagons around them.

It becomes insanity.  A dude making claims of over unity refusing to offer up any proof and a bunch of willing replicators afraid to ask for any proof.  It's just a dance of the absurd.

Moving on, sometimes people say things that are so whackadoo that some satire and derision in response is a valid thing to do.  Wattsup is one of the people that sometimes has theories that would be more suitable in a low-budget 1953 sci-fi movie.

Instead of charm school, it's arguable that we need "common sense school" and "don't be afraid of the peer pressure school."   We could even send people like you to "recognize and fight against the double-standard school."

If you are on a forum all about claiming that you can show a system that outputs more power than you put into it, and the participants on the forum don't even ask the claimant for evidence of the claim, then you have a serious serious problem.  The forum becomes an ineffective non-productive fiasco.  It becomes a reality distortion zone.

Hopefully some of the people reading this will get the message for when the next claimant comes to pitch his or her concept.

MileHigh

Any chance of towing a rubber dinghy behind for this doofus ?

If there's not enough cement to go around, even though its getting bigger by the day, I sure the butt pirate's head will still fit up Mark's arse.

No point in wasting good rope to tie them together.

Regards...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1682 on: January 26, 2015, 07:32:58 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1683 on: January 26, 2015, 07:42:49 PM »
Any chance of towing a rubber dinghy behind for this doofus ?

If there's not enough cement to go around, even though its getting bigger by the day, I sure the butt pirate's head will still fit up Mark's arse.

No point in wasting good rope to tie them together.

Regards...

So that's it?  We are just going to get a string of ineffective, annoying, and vulgar comments?  Who is paying you to do this?

More seriously, I have noticed when you are challenged with a direct substantive point (eg: No MIB in Germany killing people even though oil revenues must be reduced by billions and billions of dollars) that you simply ignore it.  That turns you into fluff.

You are a one-man Orwellian nightmare.

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1684 on: January 26, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
So that's it?  We are just going to get a string of ineffective, annoying, and vulgar comments?  Who is paying you to do this?

More seriously, I have noticed when you are challenged with a direct substantive point (eg: No MIB in Germany killing people even though oil revenues must be reduced by billions and billions of dollars) that you simply ignore it.  That turns you into fluff.

You are a one-man Orwellian nightmare.

Oh oh, somebody better call the waaambulance....again.

Regards...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1684 on: January 26, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1685 on: January 26, 2015, 08:23:16 PM »
Mark E




Quote
And another man of straw is slain.
-------------------------------------------

Nahh
Around here we call that shooting yourself in the foot.....











Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1686 on: January 26, 2015, 09:50:55 PM »
Mark E




Quote
And another man of straw is slain.
-------------------------------------------

Nahh
Around here we call that shooting yourself in the foot.....
You created the straw man and you slayed that great demon.  Now if only you could counter MH's actual argument ...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1686 on: January 26, 2015, 09:50:55 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1687 on: January 27, 2015, 12:33:59 AM »
@MH

Just go back and really read my post. Put your EE brain on pause (if you can), open your brain section that is entitled "New perspective", then put the read there, muddle it over and come back with some real objections.

Real objections, based on logic, or based on the illogic of the logic.

Mark gave me one logical objection, gold, great, he is right, I was wrong cause I should have said silver. Hope the world does not fall apart for that.

Oh and what you are so certain of today, in many instances began as you say as "whakadoo" science yesterday. So don't be so pompous about the origins of intelligence. When I embarked on this adventure of OU, I did not expect being where I am today, I did not expect to find so many discrepancies at every damn turn, where we always wind up with some level of "that's the way it is, accept it" and Marks ultimate "where's the evidence".

You know that evidence can be used for you or against you. So I will be using the already available evidence against itself. hahahaha I don't have to invent invisible fields, counterspaces and dielectrics to get my point across. The evidence is already out there in small lines of science. Unnoticed observations, they are all over the place. Once you get into this long enough you start to develop a second sense.

Your problem has always been the same thing. You are trying to grasp concepts that you have never spent a second on the bench working towards. You may have spent years and years building widgets for company A, B and C. But you have never spent one minute working on OU, so how do you expect to fully understand what I am saying in my posts. Of course they are whakadoo to you. But luckily I never post for you or @MarkEs. I only post for OUers and in the OU world, the great silent majority that never posts here, we understand things differently. We learn to read between the lines, our lines, others lines as well as Standard EE lines.

Case in point: @tinman posts something and all of a sudden, a term used in not right and pages go by for what? I understood him perfectly when you consider the context. But you guys just took him to the cleaners on that, so why? You will not understand certain things but you are quick to repost your opinions on every other post and in most thread on this forum. Why?

Examples of small evidence not too far away: Taken here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

Quote
When subjected to external forces, like electrical fields, the shape of an atom may deviate from spherical symmetry. The deformation depends on the field magnitude and the orbital type of outer shell electrons, as shown by group-theoretical considerations. Aspherical deviations might be elicited for instance in crystals, where large crystal-electrical fields may occur at low-symmetry lattice sites. Significant ellipsoidal deformations have recently been shown to occur for sulfur ions [66] and chalcogen ions [67] in pyrite-type compounds.
Unquote

Quote
Magnetic moment
Main articles: Electron magnetic dipole moment and Nuclear magnetic moment

Elementary particles possess an intrinsic quantum mechanical property known as spin. This is analogous to the angular momentum of an object that is spinning around its center of mass, although strictly speaking these particles are believed to be point-like and cannot be said to be rotating. Spin is measured in units of the reduced Planck constant (ħ), with electrons, protons and neutrons all having spin ½ ħ, or "spin-½". In an atom, electrons in motion around the nucleus possess orbital angular momentum in addition to their spin, while the nucleus itself possesses angular momentum due to its nuclear spin.[74]

The magnetic field produced by an atom—its magnetic moment—is determined by these various forms of angular momentum, just as a rotating charged object classically produces a magnetic field. However, the most dominant contribution comes from electron spin. Due to the nature of electrons to obey the Pauli exclusion principle, in which no two electrons may be found in the same quantum state, bound electrons pair up with each other, with one member of each pair in a spin up state and the other in the opposite, spin down state. Thus these spins cancel each other out, reducing the total magnetic dipole moment to zero in some atoms with even number of electrons.[75]

In ferromagnetic elements such as iron, cobalt and nickel, an odd number of electrons leads to an unpaired electron and a net overall magnetic moment. The orbitals of neighboring atoms overlap and a lower energy state is achieved when the spins of unpaired electrons are aligned with each other, a spontaneous process known as an exchange interaction. When the magnetic moments of ferromagnetic atoms are lined up, the material can produce a measurable macroscopic field. Paramagnetic materials have atoms with magnetic moments that line up in random directions when no magnetic field is present, but the magnetic moments of the individual atoms line up in the presence of a field.[75][76]

The nucleus of an atom will have no spin when it has even numbers of both neutrons and protons, but for other cases of odd numbers, the nucleus may have a spin. Normally nuclei with spin are aligned in random directions because of thermal equilibrium. However, for certain elements (such as xenon-129) it is possible to polarize a significant proportion of the nuclear spin states so that they are aligned in the same direction—a condition called hyperpolarization. This has important applications in magnetic resonance imaging.[77][78]
Unquote

So my friend, if you can muddle through this you will realize that the spin is already there. They just did not want to expand on this in terms of our everyday live effects. Because it's easier to think for 2000 some years that a field having zero properties is responsible for our effects via electron movement through a wire, instead of trying to explain that if one atom can spin (what I call the 6Ss, Stay, Show, Sway, Swing, Spin and Shoot) which are all attributes of the atom, they all can spin. There is so much more like this man. The only thing I did was add Conveyance which they decided to neglect since they already had a field and electron to do the energy conveyance in their particular model. Big mistake just cost us 200 years of neglecting the atomic attributes.

Copper having 29 protons and 35 neutrons is our prime candidate for spin. Where there is spin, there is cancellation potential and where you want OU, you need to lower that cancellation potential and that can only be done by topology right now because I cannot make my own copper wire, nor my own magnets.

Like I said to advance in OU research, you need to touch on many disciplines.

But there is much much more. hehehe

wattsup

Offline shylo

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1688 on: January 27, 2015, 12:45:40 AM »
It's amazing  how many threads get derailed.
Your all our own worst enemy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1688 on: January 27, 2015, 12:45:40 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1689 on: January 27, 2015, 01:10:11 AM »
@MH

Just go back and really read my post. Put your EE brain on pause (if you can), open your brain section that is entitled "New perspective", then put the read there, muddle it over and come back with some real objections.

Real objections, based on logic, or based on the illogic of the logic.

Mark gave me one logical objection, gold, great, he is right, I was wrong cause I should have said silver. Hope the world does not fall apart for that.
That entire post of yours was riddled with false and fantastical assertions.  Silver is only about 6% more conductive than copper. So even if you substitute silver for gold in your tome, your assertion that the conductivity of copper versus gold or silver making a big difference in the magnetic characteristics is nonsense.  Untarnished silver has a slightly thinner skin depth than unoxidized copper at any given frequency.  All the clap trap about defective atoms you offered up is just so much nonsense.
Quote

Oh and what you are so certain of today, in many instances began as you say as "whakadoo" science yesterday. So don't be so pompous about the origins of intelligence. When I embarked on this adventure of OU, I did not expect being where I am today, I did not expect to find so many discrepancies at every damn turn, where we always wind up with some level of "that's the way it is, accept it" and Marks ultimate "where's the evidence".
Really?  Then kindly cite examples of where you have found a significant advance over electrodynamic theory from the time that you started to "where you are today".
Quote

You know that evidence can be used for you or against you. So I will be using the already available evidence against itself. hahahaha I don't have to invent invisible fields, counterspaces and dielectrics to get my point across. The evidence is already out there in small lines of science. Unnoticed observations, they are all over the place. Once you get into this long enough you start to develop a second sense.
That's all fine and well to say, but until you actually pull something fro behind that curtain it is all just so many words.
Quote

Your problem has always been the same thing. You are trying to grasp concepts that you have never spent a second on the bench working towards. You may have spent years and years building widgets for company A, B and C. But you have never spent one minute working on OU, so how do you expect to fully understand what I am saying in my posts. Of course they are whakadoo to you. But luckily I never post for you or @MarkEs. I only post for OUers and in the OU world, the great silent majority that never posts here, we understand things differently. We learn to read between the lines, our lines, others lines as well as Standard EE lines.
Again that is all fine and well but without reliable evidence it is little more than story telling in the church of the invisible pink unicorn.
Quote

Case in point: @tinman posts something and all of a sudden, a term used in not right and pages go by for what? I understood him perfectly when you consider the context. But you guys just took him to the cleaners on that, so why?
When tinman says something that is ambiguous or wrong, I for one ask him what he really means.  I want to understand his actual intent and not pretend to read his mind, or otherwise assume something that he did not mean.
Quote
You will not understand certain things but you are quick to repost your opinions on every other post and in most thread on this forum. Why?

Examples of small evidence not too far away: Taken here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

Quote
When subjected to external forces, like electrical fields, the shape of an atom may deviate from spherical symmetry. The deformation depends on the field magnitude and the orbital type of outer shell electrons, as shown by group-theoretical considerations. Aspherical deviations might be elicited for instance in crystals, where large crystal-electrical fields may occur at low-symmetry lattice sites. Significant ellipsoidal deformations have recently been shown to occur for sulfur ions [66] and chalcogen ions [67] in pyrite-type compounds.
Unquote

Quote
Magnetic moment
Main articles: Electron magnetic dipole moment and Nuclear magnetic moment

Elementary particles possess an intrinsic quantum mechanical property known as spin. This is analogous to the angular momentum of an object that is spinning around its center of mass, although strictly speaking these particles are believed to be point-like and cannot be said to be rotating. Spin is measured in units of the reduced Planck constant (ħ), with electrons, protons and neutrons all having spin ½ ħ, or "spin-½". In an atom, electrons in motion around the nucleus possess orbital angular momentum in addition to their spin, while the nucleus itself possesses angular momentum due to its nuclear spin.[74]

The magnetic field produced by an atom—its magnetic moment—is determined by these various forms of angular momentum, just as a rotating charged object classically produces a magnetic field. However, the most dominant contribution comes from electron spin. Due to the nature of electrons to obey the Pauli exclusion principle, in which no two electrons may be found in the same quantum state, bound electrons pair up with each other, with one member of each pair in a spin up state and the other in the opposite, spin down state. Thus these spins cancel each other out, reducing the total magnetic dipole moment to zero in some atoms with even number of electrons.[75]

In ferromagnetic elements such as iron, cobalt and nickel, an odd number of electrons leads to an unpaired electron and a net overall magnetic moment. The orbitals of neighboring atoms overlap and a lower energy state is achieved when the spins of unpaired electrons are aligned with each other, a spontaneous process known as an exchange interaction. When the magnetic moments of ferromagnetic atoms are lined up, the material can produce a measurable macroscopic field. Paramagnetic materials have atoms with magnetic moments that line up in random directions when no magnetic field is present, but the magnetic moments of the individual atoms line up in the presence of a field.[75][76]

The nucleus of an atom will have no spin when it has even numbers of both neutrons and protons, but for other cases of odd numbers, the nucleus may have a spin. Normally nuclei with spin are aligned in random directions because of thermal equilibrium. However, for certain elements (such as xenon-129) it is possible to polarize a significant proportion of the nuclear spin states so that they are aligned in the same direction—a condition called hyperpolarization. This has important applications in magnetic resonance imaging.[77][78]
Unquote

So my friend, if you can muddle through this you will realize that the spin is already there.
When did MH say that spin "isn't there"?
Quote
They just did not want to expand on this in terms of our everyday live effects. Because it's easier to think for 2000 some years that a field having zero properties is responsible for our effects via electron movement through a wire, instead of trying to explain that if one atom can spin (what I call the 6Ss, Stay, Show, Sway, Swing, Spin and Shoot) which are all attributes of the atom, they all can spin. There is so much more like this man. The only thing I did was add Conveyance which they decided to neglect since they already had a field and electron to do the energy conveyance in their particular model. Big mistake just cost us 200 years of neglecting the atomic attributes.
In all that gobbledygook are you trying to claim that you have developed a superior atomic model, and/or a superior electrodynamic model?
Quote

Copper having 29 protons and 35 neutrons is our prime candidate for spin.
Yet copper has a permeability so close to 1.0 that for almost all purposes it is treated as 1.0.
Quote
Where there is spin, there is cancellation potential and where you want OU, you need to lower that cancellation potential and that can only be done by topology right now because I cannot make my own copper wire, nor my own magnets.

Like I said to advance in OU research, you need to touch on many disciplines.

But there is much much more. hehehe

wattsup
Hitting the happy gas does not lead out discovery.

Offline wattsup

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1690 on: January 27, 2015, 01:18:13 AM »
It's amazing how many threads get derailed.
Your all our own worst enemy.

@shylo

The title says it all and that's what I have tried talking about. If you notice, I try to follow a certain method where if a thread is moving well, I will not interject until a line of reasoning has been explored and concluded or summarized as still open for discussion but dead for now. Then I will post. I try to be as cordial as possible, I try to work my words so each means exactly what I am trying to convey. I work and rework posts for days sometimes, not all day long but some can take several hours, so usually, what I write is exactly what I want to say and I rarely post two liners in the dead heat of conversation. So I really don't know what I did to merit your comments.

wattsup


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1690 on: January 27, 2015, 01:18:13 AM »
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Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1691 on: January 27, 2015, 02:37:28 AM »
...

This troll can twist more words than a Chubby Checker song.

Regards...


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1692 on: January 27, 2015, 02:40:59 AM »
Wattsup:

Sorry but you lost it (and me) when you went into the stuff about the good atoms vs. the defective atoms.  That's whackadoo.

MileHigh

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1693 on: January 27, 2015, 02:44:29 AM »
Wattsup:

Sorry but you lost it (and me) when you went into the stuff about the good atoms vs. the defective atoms.  That's whackadoo.

MileHigh

In troll speak, whakadoo means worth consideration.

Regards...


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1694 on: January 27, 2015, 02:48:15 AM »
Well anyone can filter out your useless postings and treat them like the ad inserts.

 

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