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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 355193 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1665 on: January 26, 2015, 07:54:24 AM »
@tinman
There lies the problem I think and I have been through almost everything I could find from A to Z on both sides of the fence however I found no reasonable answers to the big questions. Nowhere on the internet or otherwise have I ever read a reasonable answer concerning what the magnetic field is because no rational physicist would tell us the answer. The only answer I found after years of research was -- virtual particles popping in and out of existence from multiple parallel universes... as you can imagine I was disappointed.
And so being dissatisfied you elect to ignore what we understand of the behavior?  Just how does that make any sense?
Quote

I understand the concept sounds absurd and fundamentally it would seem impossible however I think it's important to understand the psychology behind it. All the concepts, equations and math revolve around closed systems because an open system cannot be rationalized nor quantified offering a near infinite number of variables. This is how science works and if it cannot be quantified then it is rejected which once again comes full circle back to basic psychology. The human mind must reject that which it cannot understand or rationalize or we begin to lose our grip on what we perceive as reality.
If an idea is not testable, then it remains just an idea.
Quote

The alter ego is that the reverse may be true, if our mind will not allow an open system because it cannot be rationalized then logic stipulates the system must always remain closed and we are bound to that construct right or wrong. Thus it does not matter how factual or improbable the answer is it must be the correct one because all other possibilities must be rejected. At which point the logic concerning the proverbial closed system must spiral down the rabbit hole reinforcing itself within itself as it goes.
You are conflating analysis techniques with belief systems.
Quote

I'm not sure how many here have studied psychology however there is a saying which covers the bulk of it in my opinion -- the only ones who are truly insane are the ones who believe they are not in some way. That is those who are without doubt and reject all other possibilities or beliefs without question. Which explains many things doesn't it?, it is not a simple matter of convincing an insane person they are in fact insane because they will always reject that reality in every case. There is literally no convincing them of anything which in itself defines the actual mental disorder and not the external patterns of behavior... they will not listen.
In any case most all of the greatest minds in our history were pretty much loco so right or wrong were all in good company.
If all members of set B are also members of set A, it does not follow that all members of set A are also members of set B.  Some people are very bright and crazy.  Some people are just crazy.
Quote

AC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1665 on: January 26, 2015, 07:54:24 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1666 on: January 26, 2015, 07:57:55 AM »
@MarkSometimes it's not the destination but the journey that matters most and making mistakes are a fundamental part of learning.
Refusing to acknowledge reality when it is pointed out doesn't sound much like learning to me.  Discouraging people pointing out reality seems counter to learning to me.
Quote
I know all of us have done this very thing at one point or another moreso me however you my friend are an exception to the rule. I cannot even imagine you doing such a thing...the nerve of some people, puny mortals, lol.
It is "Pathetic Earthlings!"
Quote
AC

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1667 on: January 26, 2015, 08:23:40 AM »
@Mark
Quote
And so being dissatisfied you elect to ignore what we understand of the
behavior?  Just how does that make any sense?
Not dissatisfied as they have taken it as far as they are able and answered many questions and in the process raising many questions. I was dissappointed that it devolved into wonderland as it often does. How does a particle popping in and out of existence violating the conservation of mass and energy make sense?... I do not know.
Quote
If an idea is not testable, then it remains just an idea
I would agree just as a virtual particle and wormholes are just idea's.
Quote
You are conflating analysis techniques with belief systems.
Oh I conflate many things however I do not believe this was one of them. Is analysis not a belief?, we observe and measure things and hope what we are seeing is real however some other person with better data may reject our analysis. Potatoe Potato Tomatoe Tomato, in many cases we reject what is different not because it is right or wrong but simply because it is different.
Quote
If all members of set B are also members of set A, it does not follow that all
members of set A are also members of set B.  Some people are very bright and crazy. Some people are just crazy.
All this math is confusing me, lol, I like history versus popular opinion because it depicts real people instead of legends. I mean it is mind boggling just how completely messed up the greatest minds of science were. They were womanizers, drug addicts, alcoholics, psychopaths, sociopaths and the list of mental disorders just goes on and on and on. They were people who had the greatest contempt for their peers which is seldom if ever mentioned in the textbooks. Yes they were the greatest minds in science however they did not reach that status by towing the party line, they cut it with a freaking hatchet. As I said I like history.
From the greatest scientist in history--
“To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me.”, Isaac Newton

 
AC
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1667 on: January 26, 2015, 08:23:40 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1668 on: January 26, 2015, 09:30:02 AM »
Why would you conclude such a thing?  Wrenches are very basic things.  Here in the USA we have metric and imperial (SAE) sizes.  Anyone who has worked on cars even as a hobby has been exposed to both metric and SAE tools and hardware as very basic tools of the trade.  So someone who doesn't know the difference has been living in a hole somewhere.  A auto tech trained on digital will still know what a spark plug is and a coil even if they are not familiar with the old distributors with breaker points and a single common coil.
There in lies the problem--one day your imperial system will be long forgotten. Here in australia you would be hard pressed to find any new car that has imperial fixtures(nuts/bolts etc) ,as we went digital quite some time ago.
Year after year,the old is forgotten,and the new arives. To assume that our children will be taught something that no longer exist is just incorrect. ask any chiled today what and how an analog phone worked,and they would ask-whats an analog phone. But ask the same question about digital,and wether there a digitech or not,they'll give you more than you bargained for.

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1669 on: January 26, 2015, 09:34:35 AM »
And so being dissatisfied you elect to ignore what we understand of the behavior?  Just how does that make any sense?
That is the problem,you dont understand the behavior.
You may observe the behavior,you may build machines based around that behavior-->but you do NOT understand it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1669 on: January 26, 2015, 09:34:35 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1670 on: January 26, 2015, 11:02:51 AM »
@MarkNot dissatisfied as they have taken it as far as they are able and answered many questions and in the process raising many questions. I was dissappointed that it devolved into wonderland as it often does. How does a particle popping in and out of existence violating the conservation of mass and energy make sense?... I do not know.
A rose by any other name.  You are still promoting an argument from ignorance.  You object to your understanding of QED and appear as a result intent on tossing everything else that has been described about electrodynamics.
Quote
I would agree just as a virtual particle and wormholes are just idea's.
The statement applies to any idea.
Quote
Oh I conflate many things however I do not believe this was one of them. Is analysis not a belief?, we observe and measure things and hope what we are seeing is real however some other person with better data may reject our analysis. Potatoe Potato Tomatoe Tomato, in many cases we reject what is different not because it is right or wrong but simply because it is different.All this math is confusing me, lol, I like history versus popular opinion because it depicts real people instead of legends.
I said analysis methods  you are conveniently rephrasing to imply "analysis conclusions".  The means of travel is distinct from the destination.
Quote
I mean it is mind boggling just how completely messed up the greatest minds of science were. They were womanizers, drug addicts, alcoholics, psychopaths, sociopaths and the list of mental disorders just goes on and on and on. They were people who had the greatest contempt for their peers which is seldom if ever mentioned in the textbooks. Yes they were the greatest minds in science however they did not reach that status by towing the party line, they cut it with a freaking hatchet. As I said I like history.
If you enjoy history, and if you respect history, then kindly don't misquote others, including me.
Quote
From the greatest scientist in history--
“To myself I am only a child playing on the beach, while vast oceans of truth lie undiscovered before me.”, Isaac Newton

 
AC

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1671 on: January 26, 2015, 11:19:26 AM »
There in lies the problem--one day your imperial system will be long forgotten.
So what?  MH's analogy is perfectly valid in the context that he offered it.  Do you really think that there ar e competent auto mechanics in Australia who do not know the difference between metric and imperial unit wrenches?  Do you think that there is a single competent mechanic who would look at a 1/4" box end wrench and wonder why something that looks close to a  6mm wrench has those markings on it?
Quote
Here in australia you would be hard pressed to find any new car that has imperial fixtures(nuts/bolts etc) ,as we went digital quite some time ago.
And your point with respect to MH's analogy is what?  How does the fact that most cars use digital engine controls alter MH's analogy that had nothing to do with digital engine controls?
Quote
Year after year,the old is forgotten,and the new arives. To assume that our children will be taught something that no longer exist is just incorrect. ask any chiled today what and how an analog phone worked,and they would ask-whats an analog phone. But ask the same question about digital,and wether there a digitech or not,they'll give you more than you bargained for.
Again, which has what to do with MH's analogy? 

Just to refresh your memory:  MH postulated that EMJ's failure to describe the behavior of an inductor when connected to a simple ideal voltage source betrays a very poor understanding of inductors by EMJ.  MH offered as an analogy that EMJ's failure would be akin to an auto mechanic being unable to distinguish between metric and imperial sized tools.  For whatever reason, EMJ did not answer MH's simple query.  He had the opportunity to demonstrate basic aptitude on the subject matter at hand but did not do so.  If it was because he could not, that does not bode well for anything unusual that he claims, because not understanding basic behavior he would be unlikely to know what is normal and what is unusual.  If it was because he was just screwing with MH, then who else is he screwing with?  One minute he said that he had a COP of a specific value:  1.7, and the next he refused to state how he obtained that value and declared that he didn't want anything to do with measurements.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1671 on: January 26, 2015, 11:19:26 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1672 on: January 26, 2015, 03:46:38 PM »
@Mark
Quote
Just to refresh your memory:  MH postulated that EMJ's failure to describe
the behavior of an inductor when connected to a simple ideal voltage source
betrays a very poor understanding of inductors by EMJ.  MH offered as an analogy
that EMJ's failure would be akin to an auto mechanic being unable to distinguish
between metric and imperial sized tools.  For whatever reason, EMJ did not
answer MH's simple query.  He had the opportunity to demonstrate basic aptitude
on the subject matter at hand but did not do so.  If it was because he could
not, that does not bode well for anything unusual that he claims, because not
understanding basic behavior he would be unlikely to know what is normal and
what is unusual.  If it was because he was just screwing with MH, then who else
is he screwing with?  One minute he said that he had a COP of a specific value: 
1.7, and the next he refused to state how he obtained that value and declared
that he didn't want anything to do with measurements.
Using that same logic we could also say one who proclaims to understand physics but doesn't understand what the Primary Fields are would be akin to a mechanic not understanding what a car is. Sure the mechanic could look to the manual to fix something with his two sizes of wrenches but for some very strange reason he would not understand what it is he was working on fundamentally. Why I could ask the mechanic, what are you working on and he might reply... an engine in this thing but I do not know what this thing is.
Very strange.
 
AC
 
 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1673 on: January 26, 2015, 04:00:34 PM »
@MarkUsing that same logic we could also say one who proclaims to understand physics but doesn't understand what the Primary Fields are would be akin to a mechanic not understanding what a car is.
LOL, no that reducto ad absurdum example is silly.  In order to repair a car the mechanic needs to be able to:  Remove and replace components without damaging the car or the new parts, follow a set of procedures to determine which parts to remove and replace.  The mechanic does not for example need to have a deep understanding of combustion dynamics.
Quote
Sure the mechanic could look to the manual to fix something with his two sizes of wrenches but for some very strange reason he would not understand what it is he was working on fundamentally.
How many mechanics can you say "understand what they are working on fundamentally"?
Quote
Why I could ask the mechanic, what are you working on and he might reply... an engine in this thing but I do not know what this thing is.
Very strange.
 
AC
I find your tortured analogy very strange.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1673 on: January 26, 2015, 04:00:34 PM »
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Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1674 on: January 26, 2015, 04:41:39 PM »
LOL, no that reducto ad absurdum example is silly.  In order to repair a car the mechanic needs to be able to:  Remove and replace components without damaging the car or the new parts, follow a set of procedures to determine which parts to remove and replace.  The mechanic does not for example need to have a deep understanding of combustion dynamics.How many mechanics can you say "understand what they are working on fundamentally"?I find your tortured analogy very strange.

I picture this doosh playing a bit part in a 'B' western movie...either riding side saddle or facing backwards perched upon the saddle horn, wearing a tutu and a satisfied smile.

Regards...


Offline wattsup

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    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1675 on: January 26, 2015, 05:10:06 PM »
@all

This is just crazy. 4 more pages and nothing.


@MarkE

Yes gold is higher resistance, I should have said silver but get them mixed up on the fly. You should have left out your free comments though, they were uncalled for. But................

About the rest of what your commented, sorry but my only answer is go fuck yourself. If you want to play the ignoramus with me, then try someone else. I ain't interested.

Then you demand evidence. OK, lay a hard one in the morning, take it in your hand, squeeze it. That is all the evidence you will ever need because you just confirmed to me that's the basis for your being here. If you are looking to stir up shit, you may as well do it with the best knowledge of the subject possible.

I am here for OU, everything is based on OU, every bench test, works, talks, theories, alternatives and new angles, time and money and intent are all for OU. Every time I inhale and exhale, it is for OU. What's your excuse? Forget it. I don't want to know.

Word of advise, just leave me alone, do not respond to my posts and do not play with me. I have no humor to entertain your ilk so you have been warned. If you don't have an OUer badge, you should not be here anyways so for me you are actually an irrelevant non-event looking to hinder progress. I am actually talking to a ghost.

You flunked out. There a ways to advance an argument and there are ways to not to advance an argument. It is a choice we make willfully.

wattsup

PS: @All

Sorry for short post. Sorry for the language but sometimes, superlatives perform better then superconductivity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1675 on: January 26, 2015, 05:10:06 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1676 on: January 26, 2015, 05:19:39 PM »
So that's a big no to supporting any evidence.  If as you say you live and breathe OU the fact that you can't come up with evidence should tell you a lot.  No wonder you are so frustrated that you rant.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1677 on: January 26, 2015, 05:25:24 PM »
@Mark



Quote
I find your tortured analogy very strange.


I do as well but I was very pressed for time at the end of a 20 hr shift so I thought I would just let it ride and see what happens, lol.


However I believe the underlying premise is sound, one cannot proclaim to understand something but not really understand it just as MH implied. The Primary Fields dictate the action of everything in the known universe and if they were not present nothing we know including ourselves would exist...period. The universe would be filled with a thin fog of particles and nothing more.


As such does it not sound logical that someone somewhere might want to understand these Primary Fields which dictate the action of everything in the known universe?. I simply find it mind boggling that there could be so little interest in something so profound effecting everything on every level.


AC

Online ramset

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1678 on: January 26, 2015, 06:50:13 PM »
Mark E


some of the Boys are taking up a collection to send you to Charm school
all expenses paid , its a beautiful 6 week program [after the little boat ride]




Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1679 on: January 26, 2015, 06:53:05 PM »
@Mark




I do as well but I was very pressed for time at the end of a 20 hr shift so I thought I would just let it ride and see what happens, lol.


However I believe the underlying premise is sound, one cannot proclaim to understand something but not really understand it just as MH implied.  The Primary Fields dictate the action of everything in the known universe and if they were not present nothing we know including ourselves would exist...period. The universe would be filled with a thin fog of particles and nothing more.


As such does it not sound logical that someone somewhere might want to understand these Primary Fields which dictate the action of everything in the known universe?. I simply find it mind boggling that there could be so little interest in something so profound effecting everything on every level.


AC
And another man of straw is slain.

 

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