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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 377846 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1545 on: January 24, 2015, 11:29:21 AM »
The real mechanical analogy for a resistor would be a slipping clutch. Heaps of power from the engine getting turned into heat,and not transfered to the load(the car).
Both are decent analogies to resistance.  One is using the rheology of the fluid forced through the aperture to resist flow.  The other uses sliding friction to resist rotation.

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1545 on: January 24, 2015, 11:29:21 AM »

Offline verpies

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1546 on: January 24, 2015, 11:44:07 AM »
I simply have no faith in current science and physics taking us any further than they have,and i believe that we will go no further until we throw the theories away,and start looking for the real deal here.
Not all of current science is a dead end. Much of our contemporary science possesses good  quantitative accuracy even if you cannot admit that about its qualitative aspects.  Even if the science does not explain why two wires with current attract each other, it still tells you how much they attract.  That us useful and useful machines can be built based on that observation.  Also, if you come up with a good explanation of an effect, it must not conflict with these quantitative explanations - an "acid test" of sorts.

So I would suggest a more balanced approach - sorting out the chaff from the grain.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 02:48:40 PM by verpies »

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1547 on: January 24, 2015, 12:05:31 PM »
Nie wylewaj dziecka z kapiela.  Not all of current science is a dead end. Much of our contemporary science possesses good  quantitative accuracy even if you cannot admit that about its qualitative aspects.  Even if the science does not explain why two wires with current attract each other, it still tells you how much they attract.  That us useful and useful machines can be built based on that observation.  Also, if you come up with a good explanation of an effect, it must not conflict with these quantitative explanations - an "acid test" of sorts.

So I would suggest a more balanced approach - sorting out the chaff from the grain.
Sure,there is good science-although i believe there is much being hidden from us in the name of the all mighty dollar. I mean ,do you really expect me(or most others here) to believe that we have the technology to send and controll robots on mar's from here on earth,but we dont have a cure for the common cold ::). The same go's for cancer. Imagine if no one ever had to go down to the local drug store to get there yearly dose of cough medicine-->yep,billions of dollars world wide gone from the pockets of the big drug companies.

And why did the space shuttle program just stop?-They ran out of money ::)-rubbish,the American government would never give up a space program-never. This is a case of! we have better,but the public cannot have this information!. To go out on a limb(and i dont really care what others think about me when i say this),i have seen what i have seen,and i will tell you right now-there are no !NO! planes we have (that we the public know about) that can maneuver like the one i seen did.

There are those that already have answers to things we are trying so hard to find,and i believe it's because we are looking at the past insted of looking for the future. MH says to look in the book's-study them,but books from the past are not going to pave the way to the future. Funny thing about books are they were written by people that found answers through experiments-they had no books to read-->they are the book's.

The elite hide so much from us-lets take the moon for example. So even google can take snap shots from space,and show your backyard to the world as clear as day. The government can spot a bloke taking a pee from space-clear as day-->but we have no clear pictures of the moon's surface ???-what crap is this. Something to hide i think?.

Real scientific breakthroughs will come from those that arnt controlled.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1547 on: January 24, 2015, 12:05:31 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1548 on: January 24, 2015, 12:43:08 PM »
Sure,there is good science-although i believe there is much being hidden from us in the name of the all mighty dollar. I mean ,do you really expect me(or most others here) to believe that we have the technology to send and controll robots on mar's from here on earth,but we dont have a cure for the common cold ::). The same go's for cancer. Imagine if no one ever had to go down to the local drug store to get there yearly dose of cough medicine-->yep,billions of dollars world wide gone from the pockets of the big drug companies.

And why did the space shuttle program just stop?-They ran out of money ::)-rubbish,the American government would never give up a space program-never. This is a case of! we have better,but the public cannot have this information!. To go out on a limb(and i dont really care what others think about me when i say this),i have seen what i have seen,and i will tell you right now-there are no !NO! planes we have (that we the public know about) that can maneuver like the one i seen did.

There are those that already have answers to things we are trying so hard to find,and i believe it's because we are looking at the past insted of looking for the future. MH says to look in the book's-study them,but books from the past are not going to pave the way to the future. Funny thing about books are they were written by people that found answers through experiments-they had no books to read-->they are the book's.

The elite hide so much from us-lets take the moon for example. So even google can take snap shots from space,and show your backyard to the world as clear as day. The government can spot a bloke taking a pee from space-clear as day-->but we have no clear pictures of the moon's surface ???-what crap is this. Something to hide i think?.

Real scientific breakthroughs will come from those that arnt controlled.
I find it a strange phenomenon that there are many people who claim that information is being withheld from them and yet they purposely ignore what has been learned the hard way by extremely gifted people over countless hours of careful toil.  No matter what the Ministry of Truth says:  Ignorance is not knowledge.  Books record ideas right or wrong. No one forces anyone to merely accept what is written in a book.  Physics texts describe many of the experiments conducted by the giants whose shoulders we stand upon.  One is free to consider those experiments and the results, postulate a different conclusion, and devise an experiment that resolves the new hypothesis.  But if one merely chooses to shun what experiments have been conducted, and how the conclusions have been reached then one condemns themselves to boot strap themselves out of the stone age or live it.

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1549 on: January 24, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »
I find it a strange phenomenon that there are many people who claim that information is being withheld from them and yet they purposely ignore what has been learned the hard way by extremely gifted people over countless hours of careful toil.  No matter what the Ministry of Truth says:  Ignorance is not knowledge.  Books record ideas right or wrong. No one forces anyone to merely accept what is written in a book.  Physics texts describe many of the experiments conducted by the giants whose shoulders we stand upon.  One is free to consider those experiments and the results, postulate a different conclusion, and devise an experiment that resolves the new hypothesis.  But if one merely chooses to shun what experiments have been conducted, and how the conclusions have been reached then one condemns themselves to boot strap themselves out of the stone age or live it.
The problem is the !so called! laws of physics. How can you make laws based on theories?.
Lets look at the law of the conservation of energy-->WTF dose that mean ???. If we adhear to this law,then we might aswell all pack up our bat and ball,and head off home-game lost.

And what if i can show this law dosnt apply to all. What if i can show a device that can switch from a gravity device,to a buoyancy device,and produce an energy output that is greater than the energy applied to the device.

First up-A gravity powered device-->breaks that law.Rubbish they say-cant work.
Second-A buoyancy device-breaks that law. Rubbish they say-cant work.
What about a mix of the two?-Nup-still rubbish.

But to all that read this,look at the picture below,and answer this very simple question.

Account for all the energies out,so as they equal the energy in.
Cant create--cant destroy--only transform.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1549 on: January 24, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1550 on: January 24, 2015, 01:18:51 PM »
And when you have had a go at answering the first question-dose this second diagram speak true?-give an accurate description as to all energies out.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1551 on: January 24, 2015, 01:34:01 PM »
@Mark
Quote
There has been lots of motion but no forward movement that I have seen in
free energy.  Perhaps you could point to actual progress over any time frame
that you like.

I see a great deal of progress in this field and it's interesting to consider the big picture.
I think you believe free energy cannot be real because you have no proof which relates to personal observations. On the other hand you also have no proof Electrons or Protons exist because you have never observed them and yet you may believe in them without question. Which leaves us in an awkward position because many of the objections to the concept of free energy relate to modern physics which is generally based on the absence of disproof. That is we can believe something is true through observation which may be true or it may be false because the premise is false or we may also believe something is true but is unobservable and based on an absence of disproof. You see in physics the more fantastic the claim ie. virtual particles, the less likely someone will find an objection to the claim based on an observation.

For instance you may observe that a piece of iron is attracted to a magnet and believe this must be true even though fundamentally the premise is completely false. The magnet has a field which induces an opposite field in the iron, Magnetic Induction, the two fields couple which produces a force between them causing the fields to move towards one another. Thus iron is not attracted to a magnet, the magnet induces a field in the iron and the two fields interact causing a force between the fields which is observed as attraction however the observation of attraction is fundamentally false. The Iron is not attracted to anything it is a field related phenomena.

Now if I took a rubber band and stretched it should I then believe my left and right hand are attracted to one another?. Well no that is quite ridiculous and yet this is exactly what most would seem to believe in regards to magnets and iron. Einstein had some insight into the nature of this problem and presumed two forces pulling inward to a center are indistinguishable from two external forces pushing inward to a center. As such an observation may appear to be true on the surface but based on a premise which is false leading once again to the concept of proof not being real proof of anything in a universal sense but an absence of disproof.

I think the concept of free energy is a quagmire of semantics and false beliefs by most everyone involved on both sides of the debate. Both sides debate the issue while standing on a foundation of quicksand, all proclaiming they are on firm ground as they slowly sink into the reality they have created for themselves. In any case the one thing which seems obvious to me is that our history has proven we will always learn new things which will disprove our past beliefs. There is no static only dynamic and everything must change regardless of what we may believe.

AC

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1551 on: January 24, 2015, 01:34:01 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1552 on: January 24, 2015, 01:36:01 PM »
Brad,

Power is not energy.

The missing information required is; how long was the 60W source ON to create the quantity of H and O2 that you depict?

Offline poynt99

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1553 on: January 24, 2015, 01:41:36 PM »
Even if the science does not explain why two wires with current attract each other,

Science does explain it, but one may have to dig deeper than a Google search.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1553 on: January 24, 2015, 01:41:36 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1554 on: January 24, 2015, 01:43:49 PM »
Brad,

Power is not energy.

The missing information required is; how long was the 60W source ON to create the quantity of H and O2 that you depict?
There is no missing information poynt.The question is-will the output energy of the HHO cell be equal to the P/in. So if we add up both the energy stored in the two gases,and the heat both disipated and stored in the cell,will this be equal to the P/in.

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1555 on: January 24, 2015, 01:53:53 PM »
Brad,

Power is not energy.

In the case of a battery,we have a chemical reaction-this is chemical energy at work. This energy is transformed into electrical power,which in turn(via the HHO cell)is once agained turned into heat energy,and stored energy within the gas.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1555 on: January 24, 2015, 01:53:53 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1556 on: January 24, 2015, 01:59:52 PM »
The problem is the !so called! laws of physics. How can you make laws based on theories?.
The question itself betrays a failure to understand how we acquire knowledge.  An idea becomes a law when all efforts to falsify the idea fail.
Quote
Lets look at the law of the conservation of energy-->WTF dose that mean ???.
It means just what it says:  This world we live in has a certain amount of "stuff" that we call matter in one form and energy in another.  There is no way to destroy that "stuff" and there is no way to create more "stuff" ex nihilo.
Quote
If we adhear to this law,then we might aswell all pack up our bat and ball,and head off home-game lost.
I suppose that depends on what one considers the "game" to be.
Quote

And what if i can show this law dosnt apply to all. What if i can show a device that can switch from a gravity device,to a buoyancy device,and produce an energy output that is greater than the energy applied to the device.
You are welcome to try.  Al who have tried in the past have failed.
Quote

First up-A gravity powered device-->breaks that law.Rubbish they say-cant work.
Second-A buoyancy device-breaks that law. Rubbish they say-cant work.
What about a mix of the two?-Nup-still rubbish.

But to all that read this,look at the picture below,and answer this very simple question.

Account for all the energies out,so as they equal the energy in.
Cant create--cant destroy--only transform.
Electrolysis is well understood and well accounted.  Where do you think there is a loss or gain in total energy?

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1557 on: January 24, 2015, 01:59:58 PM »
@tinman
Quote
The problem is the !so called! laws of physics. How can you make laws based on
theories?.
Lets look at the law of the conservation of energy-->WTF dose that mean (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif).
If we adhear to this law,then we might aswell all pack up our bat and ball,and
head off home-game lost.

It depends on ones perspective, the conservation of energy can coexist with the concept of free energy in my opinion. If the universe is full of energy on every known level and we know as a fact it is then the conservation of energy proves the concept free energy.

1)The universe is full of energy everywhere we know of because energy is conserved, it cannot just disappear.
2)If energy is conserved and everywhere then it is inherently free, Energy is Energy.
3)A device may have a value or cost but energy is inherently free and if we build a device which extracts this energy we know as a fact is everywhere then that does not change the fact it is still free energy.

AC

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1558 on: January 24, 2015, 02:01:55 PM »
And when you have had a go at answering the first question-dose this second diagram speak true?-give an accurate description as to all energies out.
Bad accounting leads out garbage conclusions.  Energy is stored in the broken bonds, as well as the state change, and temperature change.

Offline poynt99

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1559 on: January 24, 2015, 02:06:44 PM »
There is no missing information poynt.The question is-will the output energy of the HHO cell be equal to the P/in. So if we add up both the energy stored in the two gases,and the heat both disipated and stored in the cell,will this be equal to the P/in.

Perhaps I have misunderstood?

This is my understanding; you turn on the disassociation apparatus and run it until you have 100psi in each container. This H and O2 if recombined represents a certain amount of energy. Correct thus far?

Now, you are comparing that stored energy to the power of your 60W source? Is that correct?

 

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