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Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 385849 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1530 on: January 23, 2015, 02:35:00 PM »
It feels like you can design and build a nuclear aircraft carrier in less time than the Searl gang takes to do anything.  All they have is a prop for shows and video clips after eight years of "mainstream" presence on YouTube and the Internet.  It's amazing how long some of these people can string things along.  Between Steorn, the Searl gang, the Rohner gang, and Wayne's Brains gang you probably have something like 100 man-years of "R&D" and nothing at all to show for it except for a few props that could be constructed with a few man-months of labour.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1530 on: January 23, 2015, 02:35:00 PM »

Offline CANGAS

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1531 on: January 23, 2015, 02:40:22 PM »
"The nation that controls magnetism will control the world."

--Al Cap...of Dick Tracy fame.


"Measuring it wood be the hard part."

Cap-Z-ro

Regards...


Huh?

 Al Cap? Al Cap was a character, in the early years of the strip, 70 or 80 years ago, inspired by Al Capone, the famous gangster. You may have been thinking of Al Capp, who drew the comic strip Li'l Abner (Southern for LiTTle Abner). Dick Tracy comic strip was drawn by Chester Gould.

Quote
.....controls magnetism.....
was uttered by the character Diet Smith, the wealthy industrialist. Or was just a disembodied voice-over.

Pffft! You may be an impeccable magnetics expert, but you sure don't know your comic strips!  ::)


CANGAS 134

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1532 on: January 23, 2015, 02:55:51 PM »
@MH
Quote
So again, theory plus bench experience - that's the best way
to go forward.  The motivation for stating this on my part is two-fold. 
Firstly, it's so experimenters can simply better themselves and and get more out
of their experiments.  Secondly, it's to make it a more hostile environment for
the criminals out there that want to take advantage of people.

We walk a fine line and I find it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff many times because of the lack of meaningful facts. As well this forum can be peculiar and I have been accused of being a philosopher at times as if that were somehow a bad thing, lol. My theory is simple, I ask the hard questions and test my theories at the bench when possible so I might understand things in a more meaningful way on a deeper level. This is not strictly philosophy it is critical thinking or deductive reasoning and experiment to better understand the true nature of our observations which is defined as science.

It is odd that the more I understand the what, why and when at the most fundamental level the more I see the laws we know being applied however not in the way we would expect. Not unlike the DWFTTW scenario which is perfectly normal once understood however in no way intuitive which led to a great deal of confusion. There were many people trying to protect other people from this supposed hoax which defied science and common sense, which was later proven to be true. I believe we are going to see more of this in the future as our understanding evolves and small groups of brilliant people will move forward by leaps and bounds leaving everyone else behind scratching their heads. Multi-spectrum solar cells are a good example with efficiencies possibly approaching 70% efficiency in the near future.--http://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-full-spectrum-solar-cell.html.

As a so-called philosopher I knew this multi-spectrum tech was coming over a decade ago because it is the logical progression of the technology. Just as I know the future of it which is integration of nano-technology capturing massive swaths of the EM spectrum well outside the visible light spectrum. Think about that?... how much energy is actually there?... I would guess we will see a 1 m^2 panel generating near 2 Kw within 30-40 years. All the pieces of technology are already present and really all they have to do is put them together. Now if we step outside the box for a second we might also say any device which could capture the energy in large sections of the EM spectrum would also act very similar to the multi-spectrum solar cells. It is not a matter of if but a matter of how and I think we will see some very interesting technology surface in the near future.

AC
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1532 on: January 23, 2015, 02:55:51 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1533 on: January 23, 2015, 03:33:31 PM »
@MH
We walk a fine line and I find it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff many times because of the lack of meaningful facts. As well this forum can be peculiar and I have been accused of being a philosopher at times as if that were somehow a bad thing, lol. My theory is simple, I ask the hard questions and test my theories at the bench when possible so I might understand things in a more meaningful way on a deeper level. This is not strictly philosophy it is critical thinking or deductive reasoning and experiment to better understand the true nature of our observations which is defined as science.

It is odd that the more I understand the what, why and when at the most fundamental level the more I see the laws we know being applied however not in the way we would expect. Not unlike the DWFTTW scenario which is perfectly normal once understood however in no way intuitive which led to a great deal of confusion. There were many people trying to protect other people from this supposed hoax which defied science and common sense, which was later proven to be true.
What science did the DWFTTW defy? 
Quote
I believe we are going to see more of this in the future as our understanding evolves and small groups of brilliant people will move forward by leaps and bounds leaving everyone else behind scratching their heads. Multi-spectrum solar cells are a good example with efficiencies possibly approaching 70% efficiency in the near future.--http://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-full-spectrum-solar-cell.html.
III-V multijunction cells have been used for many years in applications where efficiency is more important than economy, such as satellites.
Quote

As a so-called philosopher I knew this multi-spectrum tech was coming over a decade ago because it is the logical progression of the technology. Just as I know the future of it which is integration of nano-technology capturing massive swaths of the EM spectrum well outside the visible light spectrum. Think about that?... how much energy is actually there?... I would guess we will see a 1 m^2 panel generating near 2 Kw within 30-40 years.
Well then you are expencting overunity because incident radiation is well below 2kW/m2 even in the best locations.
Quote
All the pieces of technology are already present and really all they have to do is put them together. Now if we step outside the box for a second we might also say any device which could capture the energy in large sections of the EM spectrum would also act very similar to the multi-spectrum solar cells. It is not a matter of if but a matter of how and I think we will see some very interesting technology surface in the near future.
Thre is constantly new and amazing technology emerging.  So far its a big no go on energy from a new, clean, and ubiquitous source.
Quote

AC

Offline ramset

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1534 on: January 23, 2015, 03:38:56 PM »
AC
Some are inclined towards this view already,
Antenna  that can harvest more than their fair share....

 Graham Maynard's work
http://bovan.net/gmweb2/The%20FS%20Loop.htm





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1534 on: January 23, 2015, 03:38:56 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1535 on: January 23, 2015, 04:18:24 PM »
   If I wrap a coil of wire around one end of a long steel cable and an identical coil on the opposite end of the cable does it take time for the other end of the cable to become magnetized to the point that it will induce a current in the far end coil, when the primary coil is energised?. 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1536 on: January 23, 2015, 04:45:33 PM »
   If I wrap a coil of wire around one end of a long steel cable and an identical coil on the opposite end of the cable does it take time for the other end of the cable to become magnetized to the point that it will induce a current in the far end coil, when the primary coil is energised?.
There are two time delaying effects:  Propagation of the electromagnetic wavefront, which is a matter of ns per meter, and the magnetic viscosity of the domains in the steel cable which can be on the order of milliseconds depending on the particular steel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1536 on: January 23, 2015, 04:45:33 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1537 on: January 23, 2015, 05:21:22 PM »
@Mark
Quote
Thre is constantly new and amazing technology emerging.  So far its a big no go on energy from a new, clean, and ubiquitous source.


So far you have not told me anything I didn't already know years ago. I think this google-rebuttle-debate is interesting but is seems kind of pointless in my opinion. If your not moving forward your moving backward, there is no static position in evolution nor understanding it is relative.


AC

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1538 on: January 23, 2015, 05:55:21 PM »
@Mark

So far you have not told me anything I didn't already know years ago. I think this google-rebuttle-debate is interesting but is seems kind of pointless in my opinion. If your not moving forward your moving backward, there is no static position in evolution nor understanding it is relative.


AC
There has been lots of motion but no forward movement that I have seen in free energy.  Perhaps you could point to actual progress over any time frame that you like.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1538 on: January 23, 2015, 05:55:21 PM »
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Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1539 on: January 23, 2015, 06:31:24 PM »
"Motion"=payoffs and just plain 'offing'.

Regards...


Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1540 on: January 24, 2015, 10:14:27 AM »
What polarity(field) is an EMP from a neuclear explosion?-north or south field?.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1540 on: January 24, 2015, 10:14:27 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1541 on: January 24, 2015, 10:51:37 AM »
Tinman:

Just a serious note about the resolution of the big discussion.  You kept on harping about how you work on the bench and the experiments on the bench give you the real deal.  Many times you scoffed at the idea of learning stuff in books.  As a side note you may have seen me post a few times that a while back I made a rough estimate of my lifetime bench experience and it is about 4500 hours.  It's not a small amount of time, and it's not a huge amount of time compared to some others.

You have been experimenting for perhaps three or four years now.  You have probably done hundreds of experiments related to magnetic fields in one form or the other.  And yet, it's pretty evident that the whole time you have been doing your experiments you clearly did not fully understand magnetic fields when you did these experiments.  Sometimes that may have tripped you up, other times not.  You did not understand magnetic field strength vs. magnetic field gradient as it relates to pulling force.  I think you still struggle with north-south vs. the fact that there is no actual north and south.  The experiment to compare copper wire vs. iron wire was a comedy of errors on both sides of the debate.

So the lesson from this, and it's an important lesson, is that you have to combine bench experiments with practical theory.  It's simply too easy to think you know what you are doing when in fact you don't know what you are doing.  Every forum experimenter needs to take that lesson from this debate.

I mentioned Jason Verbelli on the Searl thread.  About a year and a half ago I got into a debate with him on one of his YouTube clips where he was playing with magnets and his magnetic viewing film.  It quickly became apparent to me that he was totally clueless about magnetics, not even functioning at a grade 8 level.  He rejected everything I told him.  He used the magnetic viewing film without even knowing what it was telling him, and without even asking himself if he understood how the film worked.  All that he did was look at the patterns in the film and interpret that as "confirmation" of what he was thinking.  Now Jason "works" at "Searl Magnetics" (or whatever they are called) in San Diego.  I am willing to bet you he is still just as clueless and Fernando tasks him with things to do but he never actually tells Jason that he does not really understand magnetic fields.  Like I sometimes say, that's like it's a scene right out of the move Dr. Strangelove.

I remember a few years back discussing ideal inductors and ideal capacitors to try to explain things to people.  Did I ever get push-back and derision and flack hurled at me when I did that.  I was made to feel like I was an idiot.  I see that nothing like this happened from anyone in this debate, and that's a real sign of progress.

So again, theory plus bench experience - that's the best way to go forward.  The motivation for stating this on my part is two-fold.  Firstly, it's so experimenters can simply better themselves and and get more out of their experiments.  Secondly, it's to make it a more hostile environment for the criminals out there that want to take advantage of people.  I can tell you an example.  I have looked at clips from those Aaron/Bedini conferences that take place every year.  I have seen Bedini standing in the center of a group of grown men saying the most ridiculous nonsense, so ridiculous I almost want to scream.  The grown men standing around him are at rapt attention, as if they are in the presence of a great man.  There is something wrong with that picture.

The more informed people get, the better off they are, and the more difficult it will be for criminals to operate in their midst.  That's the hope at least.

I didn't mean to fry you on a skillet here.  We just had a big debate, I think that you along with many other people learned some new stuff and perhaps your attitude has changed a bit also but I don't want to put words in your mouth.  I just think that it's important to say some of these things.  I don't know everything and I don't claim to know everything.  But I do know some things and I trust my knowledge and instincts to tell me when I am seeing criminal fraud.  Making life more difficult for criminals and perhaps saving people from parting with their money is what I like to do.  That's my "working on the bench."

MileHigh
MH
If i know so little,and you know so much with your 4500 hours benchwork and book's,then how is it i had to correct you about the single coil v the two coils-1 either side of the magnet?.

It's funny how things work some time's. Since i have been with my current employer,we have been through about 7 mechanics-6 hopeless,and 1 absolutely brilliant-but he decided to go on a trip around our wonderfull country. Funny thing was,that the guy that was really good at the job,was also the only one out of the 7 that wasnt trade qualified-all hands on only.

So here in lies the problem-im simply not interested in learning theories that i dont believe are correct. If i did that,then i would be heading down the same dead end you guy's are-no advancement-and still no idea as to what the hell a magnetic field actually is after that wonderfull 200 years. Same go's with gravity-the best they have is-->gravity sucks,a mass attracts another mass-->well thats helpfull.

We come to these forums to look for something different-not to be taught the same old same old that has gone no where in 200 years. Sure we have tweeked things a little here and there,but you only have to look at the ICE to see how far we havnt gone since the steam engine. It also seems that the big guns arnt interested in improving much on the ICE-you only have to look at the valve system to see that. Take a standard inline 6 cylider-2 valves per cylinder.
A list of the moving parts
12 valve springs
12 valves
24 spring retainers
1 camshaft
12 rocker arms
12 lifters
12 pushrods if it's not OHC
All this takes around 3HP out of your engine.

At the age of 19,i designed and built an engine that used only 1 moving part to do the same job as all that crap above-oh,and it required about .2 of a HP to drive,and even though i had a working prototype to show,do you think anyone was interested in it?-no,no and no.

I have a thread going else where about a gravity/buoyant device that puts out more energy than it consumes-(by the book),and do you think any interest has been shown in that?-->there is one other person giving an input-thats it. ::)

I simply have no faith in current science and physics taking us any further than they have,and i believe that we will go no further until we throw the theories away,and start looking for the real deal here.

So once again-im not here to learn the same old shit that the books of 200 year ago have to offer--they just simply dont have the answers we seek. Did the guys that supposedly came up with all this stuff have book's to learn from?--nope,they did it all on the bench. ;)

New discoveries are not found in old book's.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1542 on: January 24, 2015, 11:23:20 AM »
What polarity(field) is an EMP from a neuclear explosion?-north or south field?.
Do you think nuclear explosions are solenoidal?

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1543 on: January 24, 2015, 11:24:25 AM »

The real mechanical analogy for a resistor is a "damper."   

The wonderful world of physics!
The real mechanical analogy for a resistor would be a slipping clutch. Heaps of power from the engine getting turned into heat,and not transfered to the load(the car).

Offline tinman

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Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #1544 on: January 24, 2015, 11:26:36 AM »
Do you think nuclear explosions are solenoidal?
I dont think much of them at all,it was a legit question-but once again Mark,just answered with another question.

 

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