Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 515185
  • *Total Topics: 15322
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 13
  • *Total: 15

Author Topic: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions  (Read 347479 times)

Offline Turbo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
    • Youtube
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2014, 08:31:40 PM »
Exactly.

First the man denies it's existence, and then posts a picture showing it's existence.
And off course, as always, the were is your part.

I said what i wanted to say and i will leave it there since i am convinced it is enough to communicate the message.
 
I know it's hard to grasp the idea of field lines between all conducting objects in the universe but this is exactly what makes it so interesting because it would imply that every mobile phone or tablet or laptop or in fact any conducting object is already connected to one another by nature... and always has.
On another note this opens up more possibilities because you can work from open circuit to open circuit which is impossible where closed circuits are used, and this is also the area that has got room for 'external input' and would imply that a change of potential on one conducting object has to influence all other conductive objects in the universe but i better not go there it just too much.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #120 on: October 08, 2014, 08:31:40 PM »

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #121 on: October 08, 2014, 08:45:36 PM »
Newton II:

Quote
I appreciate your patience in replying to ignorant questions of ignorant people like me.

An ignorant person may think that head is full of ear wax which comes out of hoels in ears or it is full of mucus which comes out of holes in the nose (nostrils) just like water comes out of a pipe connected to a overhead tank.    There is nothing wrong in the logic.  But learned people like you should tell them that there is brain inside the head and these things come out of some other place.

You don't have to put on a show and play the wounded dove.  Nor do you have to play act with the fake patronizing attitude and the fake self-depreciating comments.

Do you want me to spend an extra 1/2 hour so that my response is just oh so perfectly politically correct for your sensitive ears?  Do I need to choose every word carefully so that you are not "wounded" by my statements?

How about we just get real and make our points without any fake drama?

Quote
1) When dirac spoke about 'anti matter' other scientists suggested psychiatric treatment for him. But later his theory  was proved
    experimentally.     When something called as 'anti matter' exists, what is wrong in thinking that corresponding 'anti-field' also exists?

I hate these illogical connections that people make, and I have observed you do it many times.  "They said the Titanic would not sink but it did sink.  Therefore electric discharges could be plasma leaking in from an alternate universe."  That's nonsense and you should try to avoid that false logic.

Quote
Lenz's drag (as mechanical force) comes into picture only when there is physical relative motion between coil and magnetic field. Since
    both coil and magnetic field are rotating along with sphere with no relative motion between them, there is no chance of lenz's drag (as
    mechanical force) in that scheme. 

The clip and formula is about a moving point charge.  You are talking about a stationary rotating sphere of charge.  Do you see a problem there?

Quote
Sun is a huge positively charged sphere rotating on its own axis and completes one rotation in 26 days. Considering  the size of the sun,
    the velocity developed at its outer surface should be very high.    Does  sun  develope a huge  magnetic field  around it due to this
    motion or high temperature of sun prevents it from producing magnetic field?

The thermo-nuclear-reactor sun has nothing to do with what we are talking about whatsoever.  They said the Titanic would not sink, you know.

Quote
I don't see anything great in humans building bridges and skyscrapers becuase even birds and insects are capable of  building
    nests/hives to an engineering class just by intuition.  Intelligence in humans is also a form of intuition and they have to thank God for
    giving them that intuition.

That's another nonsensical point that does not advance your argument at all because it is irrelevant to the discussion.

You supplied no diagram and no equivalent circuit and made no attempt to truly describe the operation of your proposed mechanism.  And to repeat, your proposed system has nothing to do with a moving point charge, and a moving point charge is supposedly the root from which your argument is made.

The issue with you is the propensity to make connections between ideas when in fact the connections are not there.

If you want to completely ignore the discussion about a moving point charge, and discuss how a rotating sphere of charge with some kind of coil configuration can give you a generator with no Lenz drag then fine.  Let's completely forget about a moving point charge and start from scratch.  If you are willing to provide the physical and schematic diagrams and make a timing diagram that shows how the electric circuit allegedly works, then fine.  But if you can only offer pie-in-the-sky prose that describes something from your imagination, then forget it, I will not be interested.

I can sum it up with three words, "please be real."

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2014, 01:04:00 AM »
Webby:

You won't comment on that fool because he is a fraud.  You want another sign that he is a fraud?  Take a look at the "job openings" slide that I just captured today and posted here.  I am willing to bet you that the "job openings" are the same now as they were two years ago.  What does that say?

It says that he is a fake company and the job openings are a pretense to make it appear that he is a real company to lure in gullible investors.  He is not hiring anybody, the slide on his website is a LIE.

Sorry for going off-topic but it at least does fall under the "myths and misconceptions" umbrella.

Quote
a point charge, these things are taught as if they actually exist

Did you ever take a physics class where you do the derivation showing that a sphere of mass can be modeled as a single point of the same mass?  These are intellectual "leaps" that help you to understand the real world.  They do not teach you in school that field lines are real lines, real physical things.  I don't know where you are getting that from.

Your argument is similar to the case when you tell someone that an inductor is actually a wire of zero resistance, and you can get a voltage across that zero-ohm wire.  Because they can't understand the concept of inductance their eyes glaze over and they accuse you of talking nonsense disconnected from the "real world" of inductors with resistive wire.

Anyway, naturally this thread only reaches a few eyeballs.  Some time within the next 24 hours you will see an uninformed person make a posting that includes a myth or misconception about magnets or magnetism.  It may even be someone that read this entire thread.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2014, 01:04:00 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sparks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2533
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #123 on: October 09, 2014, 05:58:43 AM »
  I first figured out how current through a static magnetic field forced the current carrying metal to move by reading a very old book published around 1901 dealing with electromagnetism.  It was a practical guide for electric motor technicians and engineers.  Below is a picture I drew up fast to duplicate the much better diagram from the book.  The magnetic field is like water blowing across the ocean surface.  In the diagram this is from left to right.   The conductor current is flowing into the page.   (could be out long time since I did any right-hand left hand stuff)   A circular flow of magnetic current is created as indicated by the arrow around the conductor surface.   The rotating current increases the total magnetic pressure on top of the conductor whereas it decreases the magnetic pressure below the conductor.  Therefore the conductor moves from the top of the page to the bottom.  Something like an airplane wing or a sail.  The wind because of it's viscosity has to travel faster around the bulge in the wing or sail.  This decreases the pressure.   The lower side of the wing or the more or less flat side of the sail allows the wind to flow unimpeded and at a velocity less than the air traveling the bulge.  The split stream converges at the trailing edge of the wing or sail at the same velocity as the bulk flow of air relavent to the craft.  Anyway the pressure is greater under the wing than it is on top and this lifts the craft up as the ambient pressure continually tries to fill the partial vacuum created by the fast moving air. 
 

Offline CANGAS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2014, 06:49:13 AM »
Sure, and a topographic map shows that the Earth is made up of horizontal layers precisely 10 meters apart.

Turbo, you are pushing the same line of mistaken BS that your puppetmaster pushes.

There is NO "FIBROUS STRUCTURE" to the magnetic or electric field. "Field lines" are precisely defined mathematical entities that are useful for computation but there is no corresponding physical structure that is a "fiber" of a magnetic or electric field.
Iron filings and ferrofluids do not "mark the shape of field lines", they assume least-energy configurations by orienting the long axes of the particles and clumps of particles along the local gradient of the field. People who do not understand the mathematics see these patterns and assume they are seeing some kind of map of "field lines". Sure, and if you pour water into a depression in the ground, the top surface of the water will mark the level of one of the horizontal slices of the planet that a topo map shows you.

And before you make your assumptions about who has done what with what fields, perhaps you should do your homework. Where are YOUR demonstrations of electric field phenomena? Where are YOUR static machines, your "megavolt Tesla coils", your demonstrations and references that back up your silly claims? You are keeping them very well hidden.

Do you see any magnets, coils, etc that are responsible for what is happening here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEpSX2Hd54


Well, it's like this.

When we construct a model of a phenomenon, we may, or, may not, happen to hit upon  the exactly right visualization that will coincide with what we see when we look with clairvoyant vision upon that phenomenon and see it in its intrinsic real reality exactly like God sees it.

So, if the Faraday model of field lines proves to work out to give the theorists and the engineers and you and me and all the rest of us good and useful answers, then we, still in our non-clairvoyant bewildered mere human condition, have no good basis to say that the field line model is not real. It may be real or it may be fantasy, but if it works, then you don't have any case for claiming that it is not real.

And likewise, I do not have a conclusive case for saying that it is real because I am just so sure that that is how God sees it.

You cannot prove one way or the other just like I cannot prove one way or the other.

Perhaps you disagree.....


G'day mate
CANGAS 86

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #124 on: October 09, 2014, 06:49:13 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Newton II

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #125 on: October 09, 2014, 07:27:28 AM »

I can sum it up with three words, "please be real."

MileHigh


To be very clear, I have got a simple question :

When you pass a DC through a conductor, electrons flow or move like 'Newton balls' and a magnetic field is created around the conductor conforming to right hand thumb rule.   

Instead of passing a DC through the conductor, fully charge the conductor with electrons and move the conductor itself physically by applying mechanical force,  will the conductor create a magnetic field around it?   YES or NO.

If you say 'YES', it will have its own implications.  If you say 'NO',  then you will be conforming that electric charges moving under the influence of electric potential (voltage) only will produce magnetic fields. 

If you are not interested, please don't respond. 



Offline sparks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2533
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2014, 08:42:52 AM »
  To get a permanent magnet motor to run it is very simple.  Polarize a permanent magnet so that it creates a magnetic field that duplicates the magnetic field of a copper wire conducting dc current.   If you can youve got a winner.   Replace conductor in below picture with said dynamic permanent magnetic thing and watch her spin for 400 years, ::)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #126 on: October 09, 2014, 08:42:52 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13971
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #127 on: October 09, 2014, 09:31:13 AM »

To be very clear, I have got a simple question :

When you pass a DC through a conductor, electrons flow or move like 'Newton balls' and a magnetic field is created around the conductor conforming to right hand thumb rule.   

Instead of passing a DC through the conductor, fully charge the conductor with electrons and move the conductor itself physically by applying mechanical force,  will the conductor create a magnetic field around it?   YES or NO.

If you say 'YES', it will have its own implications.  If you say 'NO',  then you will be conforming that electric charges moving under the influence of electric potential (voltage) only will produce magnetic fields. 

If you are not interested, please don't respond.

You already have my answer to this.
http://www.overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg419371/#msg419371

And here's a tiny bit more complicated answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%C3%A9nard%E2%80%93Wiechert_potential

So let's see what MH has to say about it.


Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13971
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2014, 09:40:15 AM »
Exactly.

First the man denies it's existence, and then posts a picture showing it's existence.
And off course, as always, the were is your part.

I said what i wanted to say and i will leave it there since i am convinced it is enough to communicate the message.
 
I know it's hard to grasp the idea of field lines between all conducting objects in the universe but this is exactly what makes it so interesting because it would imply that every mobile phone or tablet or laptop or in fact any conducting object is already connected to one another by nature... and always has.
On another note this opens up more possibilities because you can work from open circuit to open circuit which is impossible where closed circuits are used, and this is also the area that has got room for 'external input' and would imply that a change of potential on one conducting object has to influence all other conductive objects in the universe but i better not go there it just too much.
(sic)

You are like the dog who looks at the master's finger, instead of where it's pointing, when the finger is pointing to something of much greater interest elsewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py-0dVJ4K_s

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #128 on: October 09, 2014, 09:40:15 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline vineet_kiran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2014, 03:26:01 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:46:28 PM by vineet_kiran »

Offline Qwert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2014, 05:50:18 PM »
Magnetic field lines would be quite useful element in calculations. Do you know guys a formula which includes them? Especially supported by scientists who have them in their suggestions.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2014, 05:50:18 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline vineet_kiran

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2014, 06:44:03 PM »
  To get a permanent magnet motor to run it is very simple.  Polarize a permanent magnet so that it creates a magnetic field that duplicates the magnetic field of a copper wire conducting dc current.   If you can youve got a winner.   Replace conductor in below picture with said dynamic permanent magnetic thing and watch her spin for 400 years, ::)


Looks very simple.  Can it be like this? (see the attachment)

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #132 on: October 10, 2014, 12:46:11 AM »
  I first figured out how current through a static magnetic field forced the current carrying metal to move by reading a very old book published around 1901 dealing with electromagnetism.  It was a practical guide for electric motor technicians and engineers.  Below is a picture I drew up fast to duplicate the much better diagram from the book.  The magnetic field is like water blowing across the ocean surface.  In the diagram this is from left to right.   The conductor current is flowing into the page.   (could be out long time since I did any right-hand left hand stuff)   A circular flow of magnetic current is created as indicated by the arrow around the conductor surface.   The rotating current increases the total magnetic pressure on top of the conductor whereas it decreases the magnetic pressure below the conductor.  Therefore the conductor moves from the top of the page to the bottom.  Something like an airplane wing or a sail.  The wind because of it's viscosity has to travel faster around the bulge in the wing or sail.  This decreases the pressure.   The lower side of the wing or the more or less flat side of the sail allows the wind to flow unimpeded and at a velocity less than the air traveling the bulge.  The split stream converges at the trailing edge of the wing or sail at the same velocity as the bulk flow of air relavent to the craft.  Anyway the pressure is greater under the wing than it is on top and this lifts the craft up as the ambient pressure continually tries to fill the partial vacuum created by the fast moving air. 
 

Sparks:

Here is a clip that shows the force between two wires carrying electric current. One wire is modeled as the source of the external magnetic field and the other wire is modeled as the wire that experiences the force, so it is identical to your example.  The actual example starts in the middle of the clip.  I also attached the formula of as a screen capture.

The fundamental concept that it's all based on is that the current vector (magnitude and direction) of the wire that experiences a force interacts with the magnetic field vector (magnitude and direction) of the external magnetic field.   The force on the wire is proportional to the cross product of the current vector and the external magnetic field vector.

This is just one step above mastering magnets and magnetic fields.  What are vectors?  What's a dot product?  What's a cross product?  How does this relate to the right-hand rule?  If you are building motors and you are serious you have to master these concepts.

The explanation starts in the middle of the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfDQFtY1n8E&list=UU6x7DywfEqLg-3Cg_JnyTlg

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #133 on: October 10, 2014, 12:59:18 AM »

Well, it's like this.

When we construct a model of a phenomenon, we may, or, may not, happen to hit upon  the exactly right visualization that will coincide with what we see when we look with clairvoyant vision upon that phenomenon and see it in its intrinsic real reality exactly like God sees it.

So, if the Faraday model of field lines proves to work out to give the theorists and the engineers and you and me and all the rest of us good and useful answers, then we, still in our non-clairvoyant bewildered mere human condition, have no good basis to say that the field line model is not real. It may be real or it may be fantasy, but if it works, then you don't have any case for claiming that it is not real.

And likewise, I do not have a conclusive case for saying that it is real because I am just so sure that that is how God sees it.

You cannot prove one way or the other just like I cannot prove one way or the other.

Perhaps you disagree.....


G'day mate
CANGAS 86

Cangas:

I disagree strongly.  Hopefully this new example will swat this nonsensical belief in literal "lines" or "threads" of magnetic field.  There are NO LINES.  The lines are there ONLY to help you visualize the strength and direction of the magnetic field, and that's all.

Look at the attached diagram.  Do you think that there are real "lines" in the air?  What is your common sense telling you?  Now apply that common sense to magnetic fields.

Quote
You cannot prove one way or the other just like I cannot prove one way or the other.

You can't prove that there aren't pink elephants floating over the sky in the center of Greenland either, but you can use your common sense and not let yourself get led down a garden path because you see lines used as a visual aid in diagrams.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7617
Re: Magnet Myths and Misconceptions
« Reply #134 on: October 10, 2014, 01:19:30 AM »

To be very clear, I have got a simple question :

When you pass a DC through a conductor, electrons flow or move like 'Newton balls' and a magnetic field is created around the conductor conforming to right hand thumb rule.   

Instead of passing a DC through the conductor, fully charge the conductor with electrons and move the conductor itself physically by applying mechanical force,  will the conductor create a magnetic field around it?   YES or NO.

If you say 'YES', it will have its own implications.  If you say 'NO',  then you will be conforming that electric charges moving under the influence of electric potential (voltage) only will produce magnetic fields. 

If you are not interested, please don't respond.

Newton II:

When you pass DC current through a conductor there is no "Newton balls" phenomenon taking place.  To me "Newton balls" implies electrons enter one end of a conductor and "push" on adjacent electrons to form a chain reaction where electrons at the opposite end of the conductor get "pushed out."  That is not happening.

We are going to assume a real-world conductor with a very low resistance.  There will be a very low level electric field in this conductor such that there is a very low voltage drop from one end of the conductor to the other.  This low level electric field is what makes the electrons move.  Each individual electron is influenced by the electric field and thus they all move in the same direction at the same time.

Quote
Instead of passing a DC through the conductor, fully charge the conductor with electrons and move the conductor itself physically by applying mechanical force,  will the conductor create a magnetic field around it?   YES or NO.

NO because you can't "charge" the conductor because you are implying this conductor forms part of a circuit.  There is no net charge on a conductor that forms part of an electrical circuit.

What perhaps you are actually thinking is if you had an isolated conductor and you charged it up with static electricity then would it create a magnetic field if you then moved it by applying mechanical force to it.  In this situation it's just a variation on a moving point charge.  Instead of a moving point charge you are talking about a moving long thin cylinder of charge. That would create a magnetic field if you moved it.

MileHigh

 

OneLink