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Author Topic: Energy from waste heat or the environment  (Read 7829 times)

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Energy from waste heat or the environment
« on: September 10, 2006, 09:31:27 PM »
Closed loop low Boiling point steam engines

Here is an animated representation of the idea:
http://www.angelfire.com/freak2/dingusmungus/ClosedLoopSteamPower.swf

As for its practical applications:

-I believe that this device coupled to any internal comustion engine could produce power from the engines exhausted heat waste thereby making the engine more efficient. When coupling this closed loop system to a combustion engine I would imagine gearing it in a 10 to 1 ratio so that the steam engine creates less friction on the main engine while the system heats up and then provides more tourque when heated. The best expansion liquid I could find for this was for this CFC-113 chemicly known as Trichlorotrifluoroethane. Its critical temerature (417.4F) is optimal for carbon fuel exhaust and its boiling point (117.7F) is high enough that a quick moving wind on a radiator/condesser can reliquify it rapidly. For home generator purposes I would assume a large volume of water a few feet deep in to the groud would be able exchange heat quickly enough to sustain itself.

-Most importantly is its near solar applications to marine travel. Most of the oceans water is well below 70F but the deeper you go the colder it gets until it nears 34F several thousand feet under the ocean. By using this natural temerature difference to drive these closed loop piston systems one could provide electrical or mechanical power. The best expasion liquids I have found for this application have been Acetaldehyde (CH3CHO)and CFC-11 (Trichlorofluoromethane). By exposing the gas to dirrect sunlight while it is contained in slim black ultra heat conductive panels the liquid will vaporize, and exposing the condeser to the ocean will condense the vapor to a liduid.

If anyone has any input, questions, or other refrences on safer luiquids that boil at room temperature, please share any info you can. I have been having quite a hard time finding data on the liquids (expansion rate/time) and (volume/temperature). I hope others have an interst in this, while its not even close to overunity its a step in the right direction... MORE EFFICIENCY!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 06:38:39 PM by Dingus Mungus »

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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 12:42:27 AM »
Locally hosted copy:

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2006, 06:29:53 PM »
No questions, suggestions, or criticizism?!?!?!

Is it just bad idea or is it just of no intrest to this group?

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2006, 06:29:53 PM »
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Offline 2tiger

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2006, 02:51:04 PM »
Hi
Your URL does not work and what kind of format is that *.swf-file.

bye

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2006, 03:25:22 PM »
Hi
Your URL does not work and what kind of format is that *.swf-file.

bye

The url works just not the links, you either have to copy and paste or or right click and save. SWF is macromedia flash animation.

heres a gif:
http://www.upithere.com/view/4564.html
(http://www.upithere.com/thumb/4564.jpeg)

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2006, 03:25:22 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2006, 11:41:05 PM »

Hi,
many thanks for the nice animation.
Should this a second law Carnot violation device,
cause it has higher than Carnot efficiency ?

Where is a calculation to it or the theory behind it ?
Many thanks.
Please just post the concept here in the forum.
Regards, Stefan.

While this theory is derived from Carnots, he believed only the heat pool determined a steam engines efficiency and the fluid was inconciquential. Today we have several fluids with boiling points between 21 and 46 degrees celcius (70F-115F) that are denser then distilled water and have greater expansion rates.

I do not yet know if this device can be overunity, but I do believe this device can provide better efficiency when coupled to a combustion engine by using the waste heat of the engine exhaust to vaporize the liquid thus providing mechanical power. A four stroke hydrocarbon engine is only 30% efficient due to friction and conversion of energy to heat. This device could be coupled to an engine in a 10:1 ratio so that it provides a tenth of the friction until the system obtains a proper temperature. Once the system is heated each steam cycle equates to ten revolutions on the host engine. Modern steam engines average about 600 rmp's, but an engine such as this has never been built (to my knowlege). I wonder if anyone has ever patented a closed loop steam engine? I'm trying to find some help here in researching information on the fluid/vapor dynamics of the to chemicals I listed in the animation.

As far as the mechanical function of the device goes:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/dingusmungus/info/intro.jpg)
*note chemicals used and boiling points

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/dingusmungus/info/1.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/dingusmungus/info/2.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/dingusmungus/info/3.jpg)

If you have anymore questions I would be glad to try to answer them. I hope to hear what you think of this idea.

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2006, 12:40:19 AM »
Here is a link showing the the pressure/temperature chart for CFC-12:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/freon-d_972.html

Here is a link showing the the pressure/temperature chart for CFC-22:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/r22-properties-d_365.html

Here is a link showing the the pressure/temperature chart for H2O:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html

I'm having trouble finding out how they got these numbers. Does anyone here know how I could calculate this information for the chemicals I listed???


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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2006, 12:40:19 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 09:23:12 AM »
@Dingus


try it with propan.

fill 2.2 atm in!

will work

pese

Offline pese

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 01:50:32 PM »
Chlorethan (Ethylchlorid), C2H5Cl

Vereisungsmittel in der Medizin zur lokalen Bet?ubung (durch niedrige Siedetemperatur von +12 ?C sofortige Verdampfung ? Unterk?hlung der Haut ? Schmerzunempfindlichkeit


 

found that  +12 degrees Celsius  as boilintemerature


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 01:50:32 PM »
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Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 04:41:10 PM »
Chlorethan (Ethylchlorid), C2H5Cl

Vereisungsmittel in der Medizin zur lokalen Bet?ubung (durch niedrige Siedetemperatur von +12 ?C sofortige Verdampfung ? Unterk?hlung der Haut ? Schmerzunempfindlichkeit

found that  +12 degrees Celsius  as boilintemerature

A great example!
vielen Dank!

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 04:44:12 PM »
@Dingus


try it with propan.

fill 2.2 atm in!

will work

pese

Well hopefully someone with the means to test this concept will give it a try in the mean time I'm focusing PMM technology. How did you determine that information?

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 04:44:12 PM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 07:17:17 PM »
Try it ! It work.
I have "repaired" (filled) my frigidaire with them !

Old not toxid gas that was used decades before als in germany (east)
Pese

Offline Dingus Mungus

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 01:48:09 AM »
Try it ! It work.
I have "repaired" (filled) my frigidaire with them !

Old not toxid gas that was used decades before als in germany (east)
Pese

That I can understand but this concept is not relying on a chemicals ability to be used as a refidgerant but a chemicals ability to vaporize at near room temperatures. The most important aspect of any fluid that can boil at room temperature is its volume curve in ratio to H^2O steam. This is why I'm curious to how you calculated 2.2atm's of a liquid that boils at -42c would work? (I know the boiling point of the fluid increases under pressure, but how did you calculate the proper bar density)

Offline sergio007

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Re: Energy from waste heat or the environment
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 08:06:07 AM »
Dingus Mungus,

I like your idea,  :)  but I think it will l hard to make it.  to work with less friction as possible. (Needed for the less differential temperature needed between hot side and cold side to be able to run)

I think but I'm not sure if you know, do you know stirling engine ? If not they are closed loop system too. But normally they work with only vapore or air.  Somoene in near 1980 (I don't remember the name) make one that can run with only 0.5 Celcius diffence! No power output but at least it turn !  Now on the web you can easely find seller that sell it as stirling low temperature engine (with the hand only heat it run ! ) 

Why I talked about it is if you put some exotic gaz in it, I think with time, you will loss some gaz by the piston and by the shaft of turning door. Espacially if you have different pressure between inside your engin and outside.  If you put more great gasket, = it will be adding more friction.

Another think is I think it will be very hard to make this rotating door to be air tight, but possible with good CNC machinery. but again, you adding a lot of friction.


For the piston I suggest you to put a diaphram piston.  For rotating door I maybe suggest you to turn you disk sideway, like this it will be flat surface not curved . Like this it will be easiyer to be air tight. and to make !   ;)

In industrial use, they normally use turbine (Less friction, great effiency, lower maintenance etc.) But they need a lot a power to get great efficency, than they can not make power from waste heated water like. But I know some compagny are trying to make it with R134a like gaz but for industrial use. 


Have fun !

Alp
Sergio  
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 08:33:44 AM by sergio007 »

 

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