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Author Topic: Lifter with HV power source  (Read 9956 times)

Offline pavqw

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Lifter with HV power source
« on: September 07, 2014, 11:26:41 AM »
I am thinking if it is possible to get enough thrust to carry power source and all necessary stuff to lift the lifter.

I think I can build sufficient HV DC pulse power system which weighs around 50-100 grams including battery.
What weight is possible to carry with the lifter to achieve vertical lift?

Can you recommend the best lifter construction or some tips?

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Lifter with HV power source
« on: September 07, 2014, 11:26:41 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 02:06:46 PM »
I am thinking if it is possible to get enough thrust to carry power source and all necessary stuff to lift the lifter.

I think I can build sufficient HV DC pulse power system which weighs around 50-100 grams including battery.
What weight is possible to carry with the lifter to achieve vertical lift?

Can you recommend the best lifter construction or some tips?
You would be the first to build an ion wind lifter that can carry it's own power supply. Some mistake these ion wind devices for anti gravity devices-which they are not,and wont work in a vacume. You would also have to ask-what good is an anti gravity space craft,when there is no gravity in space???. You would have an anti nothing device.

The best one i built was round in shape-about 20 inches in diameter-unlike the popular triangle ones. I used the flyback transformer and circuit from a CRT monitor to power it. A nice purple glow in the dark,and sounded like chips cooking in hot oil. No where near enough lift to carry the power source though,but the kids were quite impressed-along with the mother inlaw who just had to go and touch it while in flight. She did say that her arthritis pain disappeared in her right arm for a while, though the wife was still not impressed that i electrocuted her mother.

Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 03:05:44 PM »
Thanks!

Well, I do not intend to built anti-gravity device. It could be fine to build such lifter just for fun and check new possibilities.

I believe that bigger lifters can carry heavier loads or maybe there is a proportional rate between voltage amplitude or frequency rate and actual thrust velocity.
The main difference from other devices is, that this could be very silent, vibration free, maintain-less.
Maybe if resonance frequency is achieved, it could be very efficient.

With little bit clever electronics such as gyroscopes/accelerometers a flight can be very stable.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 03:05:44 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 08:38:22 AM »
@payqw:

You might already know the lifters from Jean Louis Naudin, if not, here they are:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/maximus2/index.htm (the largest lifter, lifts 250 grams, pay load only 60 grams; so, your power supply should have 60 grams)

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/enhanced.htm (some large lifters)

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm (main page)

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/hvps.htm (power supplies are rather heavy)

Greetings, Conrad

Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 10:54:22 PM »
Thanks for the links!

It seems as nobody is trying to build extra lightweight HV power supply.
I believe that we can find little bit more efficient and also easier way to build lifter.
Does anybody tried to play with a different HV Pulse parameters?
I can imagine that with different pulse width it could be much more efficient. Also what about 1Mhz+ frequencies?

Maybe we can put closer corona wire to aluminium foil if we can use some isolant there or we can find a different method to eliminate arcs/sparks?
Does anybody played with magnetic field and ion wind? There are lot of unanswered questions.

I am sure lifters are worth to build and study.
RC Helicopters and Quad Copters are quite inefficient too, there is extreme current (40-300A in peaks depending on size).
So if we can get to state, where we are not limited by construction of the lifter, it should be easy to increase lifting thrust and maybe to lower HV requirements.

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 10:54:22 PM »
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Offline starcruiser

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 05:00:40 PM »
I built a lifter some years ago using a car coil, GM coil controller and a signal generator to drive the controller which is basically a darlington pair switcher (switches the ground line to the coil).

You could try a cheap flash circuit perhaps to generate enough tension to create lift.

BTW, the RC helicopters (I fly them) can consume high current when the disc is loaded. There are smaller ones, less than 12" in length which uses a single cell Lipo battery (3,7v) at 500maH and can do most of what a larger one can. Most of the motors are brushless with Neo magents for the field and PWM controllers for the drive, these can be 80+% efficient in operation.

For those looking to hafve a smaller power suppluy (battery) Lithium Polymer Batteries can source high current for short periods of time, the 500maH pack i mentioned above can source several amps at 3.7v. The larger packs come in various voltages, the most used are 12v, 24v and 48v configurations, the larger packs have a higher current sourcing ability up to several hundred amps.

a 24v 5000maH pack with a 35C discharge rating can source  5 x 35 = 185 amps for a short period of time without damaging the pack.

Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 01:15:50 AM »
Yes, I know LiPo batteries are very powerfull and quite lightweight.

I believe that there is not big interest in building so light and so specific power supplies, there is nearly no reason to do it.
So I think there are lot of areas of possible improvements.

I am PCB engineer so I want to try some experiments with this.
Also I believe that we can create much better concept of the lifter.

By the way, why we should believe NASA? We should test it ourselves if it really does not work in vacuum at all.
That mean, we should make own decissions and get to own results.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 01:15:50 AM »
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Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 12:29:46 AM »
Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGN65lse5yE

By the way I am in a process of building/designing very light HV power source.
It could weight around 20g only with output power approximately 200W.

I will share all needed data and schematics if this goal is achieved sucessfully soon.

Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2014, 06:30:59 PM »
It seems ION propulsion is there for more than 40 years right now and is very efficient and already used by NASA and others for years.

For example Deep Space 1 was first module with Ion Thruster released in 1998. And as I understand it uses very same principle as Ion Wind in our Lifters.
Of course there are some modifications so it differs from ion wind lifter. For example Ion magnetic accelerator, very similar to this used in CRT displays.
Instead of air it uses an exotic gas, mostly it is Xenon.

It is known that it is cca 50x more efficient than Jet propulsion. Deep Space 1 achieved 4.2km/s speed, so for me and lot of scientists this propulsion is very worth and _IS_ designed for deep space flights too with such modifications.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2014, 06:30:59 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2014, 05:37:58 PM »
Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGN65lse5yE

By the way I am in a process of building/designing very light HV power source.
It could weight around 20g only with output power approximately 200W.

I will share all needed data and schematics if this goal is achieved sucessfully soon.

From my lifter experiments I recall, that a lifter does not need straight DC, it could be pulses or even spikes. But the pulses or spikes have to go in one direction (AC will not work). So, one does not need smoothing capacitors but at least one high Voltage diode is necessary (to rectify the current coming from the secondary of the high Voltage transformer).

Polarity is important. Once you have built a lifter switch plus and minus around and test which way works best. Negative air ions are heavier than positive air ions, therefore you want to shoot off negative air ions.

The higher the Voltage the better, starts to work with 20 KV, I used 37 KV  from a colour monitor (very dangerous, be careful, wear gloves).

Greetings, Conrad

Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2014, 12:18:03 AM »
OK, so I have did some experiments with designing HV power supply.
I have created capacitor multiplier (36x voltage multiplication). It weights cca 8 grams.
It is all SMD technology and works good. My PCB is CNC milled so it is not so great for higher voltages because of shorts - at least for inital tests it is enough.

This multiplier takes input from DC -> AC converter, which is driven by MCU controller, so I can program PWM rates as I need to create required frequencies, etc.
This part is what I have to tune, because I need to find the best transistors (lightweight and yet powerful) at this moment.
Also I have to build/find very lightweight transformer (from 12V to 500-600V).

For now I can get easily lot of KV, but it has to be lowered because of shorts in multiplier.
After this will be tuned, I believe it can power a lifter.

With todays LiPo batteries it could be all very light.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2014, 12:18:03 AM »
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Offline pavqw

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Re: Lifter with HV power source
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2014, 09:08:26 PM »
New update..

I have found HiVolt company which manufacturing tiny DC/HV DC converters.

With their devices we should be able to produce 20kV @ 100uA under 20g!
Input voltage is 5V, input current 1A. This is awesome.  With some mods we can obtain even better efficiency.
This could be enough to produce at least propulsion for wing-type craft.

Unfortunately,. their products are quite expensive for me to tests.
I need $1600.

If anyone is interested, you can donate it.

 

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