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Author Topic: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.  (Read 101600 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2015, 11:57:28 PM »
The C/CCW feature would allow two turntable motors to power a tube rotor from each end after the gears were removed; Turning in opposite directions for double (Posi-Traction) power. The two motors could also power the rotor from one side while simultaneously generating 220volts from the other.

The turntable rotor magnet turned out not be diametric after all. A small collar bushing between the magnets would solve any unwanted repulsion problems.

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2015, 11:57:28 PM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #151 on: August 26, 2015, 01:06:20 AM »

Microwave Turntable Motor Test:

https://vimeo.com/33734382

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #152 on: August 27, 2015, 02:53:09 PM »
A ferrite toroid ring with a light indctance suppressing D.C. wrap, covered with layers of magnet wire large enough to pass the diametric tube through, would have the right direction of the copper wire to face the rotor magnet field.

I think the toroid power coil would handle the distribution of A.C. oscillation best. One of my High Voltage bifilar spirals would maximize the A.C. influence, and has already proven to be a superior design. We need to tie a tank capacitor into the spiral coil to deliver a resonant frequency of 60 hertz.  We can generate 220 volts with the the turntable motors while powering the tube rotor with A.C. with our experimental "LC Tank Assistance". The motor generator would loop and run itself if the power coil tank oscillation did work assisting the A.C. input.

The two turntable motors can send their 220 volt output directly to the "Hi-Voltage Power Spiral" at 60 hertz. Feeding a small amount of power to the LC tank may sustain the rotor speed. Tinman's super capacitor might help do it.

There's two ways to power the large spiral: Through a Dimmer Switch directly from the A.C. wall socket, or pulsing D.C. through a transformer into the LC tank capacitor.

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #152 on: August 27, 2015, 02:53:09 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #153 on: August 27, 2015, 04:12:53 PM »
The "Primary Transformer Wire" from the Microwave transformer is the correct gauge wire for the spiral, or the facing solenoids in parallel, to handle the high voltage wall current. The thicker wire and larger magnet rotor provides drive advantage to the Hi-Voltage side of the circuit. Both types are air core coils with fixed capacitance and resonant frequency.

Naturally, both input circuits, wall current and turntable output, would need diodes positioned to protect each from the other.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2015, 07:37:34 PM »
Closer scrutiny has uncovered that the Turntable rotor magnet has a "6 pole, side to side, N.S. polarization". The turntable rotor's only spinning at 600 R.P.M. as a result; The larger rotor needs 6 N.S. poles also, to match the R.P.M. and run as A.C. synchronous. There are a number of different ways to handle that. A small 6 magnet N.S pole wheel sandwiched between PVC couplings glued to the turntable magnets would work well. 600 R.P.M'S is low enough to help keep the friction bearing cool with the increased weight of the larger wheel.

This kind of motor grows more efficient under load. Taxing it with ouput burden from the beginning should help. These motors come in the 120 volt variety too. The microwave transformer primary wire from the 120 volt oven, or an equivalent gauge, would be needed to wrap the larger A.C. solenoid power coils for the 120 volt input from the turntable generators. We need to place diodes between the generator output wires and the coils, along with the wires conducting the direct A.C. input.

The auxiliary LC tank is a seperate circuit.

We can run the large 6 pole rotor directly from 120 volt wall current through a dimmer switch with the turntable output looped. Start off with a zero power setting, and slowly turn it up and see how the motor reacts to feeding itself it's own output.

Apparently the turntable rotor magnet comes in an 8 pole variety. Naturally, if you buy a pair it should be easy to test the magnet poles and decide if you need a 6 or 8 pole N.S. magnet rotor. This 8 pole version lowers the 60 hertz 6 pole R.P.M. from 600 to 450.



« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 11:01:16 PM by synchro1 »

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2015, 07:37:34 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #155 on: August 28, 2015, 12:02:10 AM »
Rules for the operation of synchronous motors:

"The second method of starting a synchronous motor is to attach an external starting motor (pony motor) to it and bring the synchronous machine to near about its rated speed (but not exactly equal to it, as the synchronization process may fail to indicate the point of closure of the main switch connecting the synchronous machine to the supply system) with the ponymotor. Then the output of the synchronous machine can be synchronised or paralleled with it's power supply system as a generator".

A DPDT would be needed. We run it up with the turntable motors, switch them to the neutral position, then turn the A.C on and power with synchronous A.C.  Flop the generators on to a closed dimmer switch "Then the output of the synchronous machine can be synchronized or paralleled with it's power supply system as a generator".


This is by no means an original idea. Parts adaptaion, innovation, not invention. Two dimmer rheostats might be needed so the power is phased in synchronized and paralleled. Turn down the wall current with one dimmer and at the same time feed increased generator output into the power coil with the other. The generator dimmer turns up to full on, while the wall current dimmer turns down to nearly off.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:29:13 AM by synchro1 »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2015, 01:25:11 AM »
Look at the perfectly round bundle of 1/4" diameter by 1/2" long diametric tubes. The natural alignment is N.S.N.S. etc. Six or eight of these magnets glued to flat ends of bottle caps would glue just right to the turntable rotor magnet and hold together by natural attraction.

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2015, 01:25:11 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #157 on: August 29, 2015, 09:09:10 PM »
Dimensions: 1/4" dia. x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N52
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Diametrical (Poles on Curved Sides)
Weight: 0.213 oz. (6.03 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 11.61 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 18.29 lbs
Surface Field: 7734 Gauss
Max Operating Temp: 176º F (80º C)
Brmax: 14,200 Gauss
BHmax: 52 MGOe
The 1/4" by 1" cylinder is one of our most popular sizes due to its great versatility. The D4X0DIA-N52 is a little different in that it is diametrically magnetized, which means the curved sides will attract instead of the flat ends. And since it's Grade N52, you know it's as strong as can be!

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #158 on: August 29, 2015, 09:19:35 PM »
What effect would doubling the magnet strength, by doubling the length of the cylinder magnet and then doubling the diameter of the thick gauge A.C. power coil have on motor performance? Would there be any increased input cost to run a rotor and coil twice as large and powerful with synchronous A.C. frequency?

We can see the natural dlametric magnet  A.C. rotor shape again in the picture  above.

We get to sort through a junkbox full of old plastic bottle caps to complete the motor.

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #158 on: August 29, 2015, 09:19:35 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #159 on: August 30, 2015, 06:16:20 PM »
Those bottle caps triggered a flashback to an acid bummer from the "Old Filmore".

On further consideration I realize the need to connect the rotor bearings together with one solid piece of pipe just the right size, then drill holes and press axial polarized cylinders where they would glue fit and link in the center around a tiny steel ball bearing.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2015, 10:52:34 PM »
These are  D.C. motor magnets:

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2015, 10:52:34 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #161 on: August 31, 2015, 01:37:13 AM »
I got a better idea; Only it's gonna take 4 motors! Two motors are disassembled, and the two rotor magnets are removed and joined at the faces to form the central rotor. Their two power coils are placed around them so the magnets are running inside the air cores of the motor coils just like in the case. Now all we need are two thin connecting tubes to run from the central "Rolling Pin" rotor to the side rotors. This gives us 8 identical plug blades.

One wall outlet rheostat might be enough to synchronize the wall current with the looped output. The main rotor transformer coils make the need for a "Pony Motor" non existent, and eliminate a few components while self starting. Several strong advantages.

Naturally two strong diodes would be needed to protect the generators.


Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #162 on: August 31, 2015, 02:55:07 AM »
A very simple preliminary test, involving two C/CCW motors, one driving the other as a generator self looped through a diode and the motor powered from wall current through a rheostat, would help.

This motor generator should run at replenishment to resistance level, maybe 2 or 3 percent of what the input would be with no loop.

Well, some might say: "That leaves nothing left over to do work"! Gotoluc demonstrated that this kind of motor consumes less power when placed under load.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #163 on: August 31, 2015, 01:50:00 PM »
An even more basic test to run on this microwave turntable motor, would be to measure the input under load and see if it diminishes like Gotoluc showed in his synchronous motor video. You'll need a microwave oven, and a DMM set on A.C. amps. Uncover the motor and run wires directly to the wall socket. Place the multi-meter leads on the turntable motor plug and then grab tightly ahold of the carousel turntable Tri-spoke, and see if the draw drops. Unplug the device before you work on it to avoid electrocution.

Good take down video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKueNDvl_8

This video shows how the turntable motor plugs directly into the wall for testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dM6CHikwk

I plan to try this myself, however replications are valuable.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Oscillating sine wave LC tank magnet motor.
« Reply #164 on: August 31, 2015, 11:06:54 PM »
I got the same effect with the "Galanz" turntable motor I pulled from my Whirlpool microwave oven that Gotoluc got in his video. I bought an expensive 9 function Sperry DMM from Radio Shack to perform the test. Sure enough. when I grab the turntable rotor axle and squeeze tightly, the A.C. input amps start to drop. Amazing but true. Try it!

I got the A.C. input to drop from 250 to 220 milliamps just by squeezing the exposed axle between my fingers. This turntable synchronous motor definitely works backwards just like Gotoluc's did. This is proof it's worthwhile moving ahead with the scale up versions.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:51:17 AM by synchro1 »

 

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