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Author Topic: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy  (Read 9798 times)

Offline fletcher

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Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« on: August 21, 2014, 01:07:40 AM »
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=127734#127734

............................

Can this work ?

A picture is worth a thousand words.
 
 This was prepared a month ago.
 
 Please read carefully !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MarkE

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 01:38:13 AM »
If one starts with the established observations:  1)Gravity is a conservative field and 2) Your machine has real losses: Then it is game over before you start.  A pendulum no matter how complex has losses that unless compensated by an external energy supply prevent it from reaching the same apogee as where it started. 

As a point of reference:  You can ask 'honest Wayne Travis' how his efforts to establish a cheat on the conservative nature of gravity are going. 

Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 02:15:01 AM »
Yes Mark .. that is the established view/starting observations, & I am well aware of those ordinary mechanical limitations.

In this case the rotor turns CW thru imbalance [real CG is to the right of vertical] & accelerates from tdc to bdc just as a pendulum would, gaining velocity, momentum & Ke, whilst losing Pe - no surprises there !

At or near bdc the Roberval Balance Gearing System [RBGS] is engaged by way of a clutch so that the T-Bar remains horizontal in orientation & most importantly the system is in weight balance & coasts onwards N.B. the virtual CG has changed to the position of the CoR so has neutral torque effect i.e. no reverse torque effect.

N.B. the sliding Diver mass transitions laterally [the "switch"] at tdc & prepares for the imbalance mode half rotation.

Feel free to sim it for yourself ! At least sim the two modes to see if your observations hold true.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 02:15:01 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014, 03:20:41 AM »
Fletcher, all of the actions that lock / unlock cost energy.  Complicating things by moving the cg around, adding clutches and such: complicates the analysis, increasess loss, and hastens the run down.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2014, 04:14:11 AM »
a member of crankiwheel.com , how interresting. How are the vermins doing ?

his idea is superior to yours in every level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h07dGylgN8w

notice that yours is but a remodel of that.

I believe energy comes from pulse, lead out. theory.

either that or it wasnt overunity, there was no current measurement, loaded for very short time.

Nevertheless, he went farther than you.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2014, 04:14:11 AM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2014, 04:24:31 AM »
That's what has to be determined Mark i.e. what clutch mech would be fit for the purpose & what losses could be expected from engaging & disengaging that clutch verses momentum & Ke gained by the wheel POC ?

N.B. all things being equal the greater the drive mass the greater will be the Pe lost in the drive cycle & the greater will be the velocity (rpm) & Ke gained by the wheel [less ordinary system frictional losses] - additionally, increasing the length of the slide rail in the top of the T-Bar increases the drive mass orbit also increasing Pe lost & rpm & Ke gained etc.

So far I believe the losses are manageable & not a show stopper, potentially leaving excess wheel rotational Ke.

Hands on builders with mechanical nous should be able to shed light on what clutch losses might be expected etc.

Offline lumen

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 04:46:21 AM »
The system is using roberval action which changes the real position of the weight and has always been the key to ALL mechanical over unity devices.
Roberval action can relocate the effective position of a weight on a wheel without actually moving the weight, by simply engaging or disengaging the roberval action.
 
Looks like it could work!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 04:46:21 AM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 05:12:51 AM »
my new video is sooooo juicy in regards to that.

roberval.

plz, what is his full name.

did he release papers ?

Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 06:08:58 AM »
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=127871#127871

Looks like no cigar in this configuration.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 06:08:58 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 06:21:44 AM »
That's what has to be determined Mark i.e. what clutch mech would be fit for the purpose & what losses could be expected from engaging & disengaging that clutch verses momentum & Ke gained by the wheel POC ?
The Ke that is gained is limited to the Pe that is lost, and must be repaid to return to the start.  All losses prevent a return to the start. The clutch mechanism definitely has loss.  All such schemes come down to and have always failed against a means to cheat gravity's conservative nature.  The Pe difference from maximum to minimum must be shown to be greater than the return due to the path taken.  Ke is just a storage mechanism in the process.
Quote

N.B. all things being equal the greater the drive mass the greater will be the Pe lost in the drive cycle & the greater will be the velocity (rpm) & Ke gained by the wheel [less ordinary system frictional losses] - additionally, increasing the length of the slide rail in the top of the T-Bar increases the drive mass orbit also increasing Pe lost & rpm & Ke gained etc.

So far I believe the losses are manageable & not a show stopper, potentially leaving excess wheel rotational Ke.

Hands on builders with mechanical nous should be able to shed light on what clutch losses might be expected etc.

Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 07:50:36 AM »
My bad Mark .. somehow I forgot [brain fart] that the T-Bar in locked mode would not travel & rotate until the T-bar was upside down & symmetry regained, & be exactly horizontal again to be re-engaged with the Roberval balance Gearing System.

It was one of many ideas I tried with the basic Roberval System & perhaps I'll post up some others later.

P.S. I don't take this failure or myself too seriously - it's an interesting hobby most times but thanks for your comments.

Lumen described well why I'm interested in Roberval's - the apparent instantaneous changing of virtual CG.




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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 07:50:36 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 08:14:01 AM »
No problems.  I try to find my way to the crux of the matter, which in the case of gravity based machines always comes back to the conservative nature of gravity.

Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 10:03:19 AM »
Yes - in this case I was attempting to use gravity in combination with Cf's to transition the driver & reset.

Should anyone ever find an actual real work around to prove that gravity is not conservative [not path independent] in a wheel format then that will be the day the thinking caps come on again to work out where the excess momentum & Ke comes from.

Sharing ideas, even epic failures, just might spark an original line of thought for someone.

In this case Entropy won again.

Offline lumen

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 07:00:41 PM »
Fletcher,
Gravity is a unidirectional field and prevents an important function of roberval action.
I have switched to using magnetic fields with a roberval movement and was able to design a PM oscillator device that operates in a SIM.
 
It would have been nice to have some rotary type PM device, but the reciprocating design seems to operate in the SIM and should be an endless operation.
Of course it is only in the SIM and until a real device is built that's where it sits.
 
 
 

Offline fletcher

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Re: Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2014, 04:21:47 PM »
I said in other threads on BW.com that I thought I had found something interesting.
 
 See the pics & the wm2d file to see what I mean.
 
 The RBGS in pendulum form has the same MOI regardless of where the sliding mass is anchored on the horizontal.
 
 Obviously the the pendulum pivot circles around the CoR - the mass located on the RBGS follows a different path, at one time farther away than the other from the actual CoR for the pendulum.
 
 You might expect the location of the mass & its distance from the CoR to effect the MOI of the pendulum, wouldn't you ?
 
 In normal mass placements the farther from the CoR the greater the MOI.

 

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