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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: magnetman12003 on August 17, 2014, 10:26:07 PM

Title: Why won't this work??
Post by: magnetman12003 on August 17, 2014, 10:26:07 PM
Hi All,

Below is a photo  link of a flat heavy hoop between two free spin rollers. No magnets involved.-Just gravity.

There is no center spin axle for the hoop so in this case the entire weight of the hoop is on the left side
That weight forces UPWARDS on the right hand side between the rollers as illustrated.

My question is why wont the hoop keep on turning forever ?????
5


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Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: FatBird on August 17, 2014, 10:32:54 PM
Your Link just gives an ERROR message.

Please see below.
                                                                                                  .
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: magnetman12003 on August 18, 2014, 03:28:27 PM
Hi All,

Below is a photo  link of a flat heavy hoop between two free spin rollers. No magnets involved.-Just gravity.

There is no center spin axle for the hoop so in this case the entire weight of the hoop is on the left side
That weight forces UPWARDS on the right hand side between the rollers as illustrated.

My question is why wont the hoop keep on turning forever ?????


http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=1022801&part=2

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Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: mscoffman on August 18, 2014, 04:22:16 PM
I know which one you mean, I was looking at it in youtube yesterday but now I can't find it again..I hate it when that happens.

***Which way do you suppose it will move? Will it slip it's way out from under the lower roller, or will it go over the top of the ring?
That's the problem, it is balanced there as it is a stiff ring. Also what force is going to make it rotate rather than slide?

As you can imagine the operational demo machine is *fake*, there is a motor in the box at the base.

:S:MarksCoffman
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: magnetman12003 on August 19, 2014, 01:44:30 AM
I hope this link opens. 
From what I see the entire weight of the flat hoop is on the left side bearing down.
The two rollers on the right side have to be placed just so  to allow the hoop to feed through.

I suspect the center point of the top roller has to be in the same horizontal plane as the center point of the hoop.   The bottom just under the top roller has to have enough clearance to allow the hoop to pass through.

Can you see the below link ?

http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=1022980&part=2
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: fritznien on August 19, 2014, 04:22:15 AM
still can't see it.
is this it?
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/woodward.jpg (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/woodward.jpg)
as for why it don't work.quote
This 19th century invention by F. G. Woodward suggests that since there's more weight of ring to the left of the two rollers, it must turn counterclockwise. Even naive students immediately recognize that there's no reason to expect it to turn. Does our center of gravity principle apply? It qualifies as a supposedly gravity-driven wheel. The ring's center of gravity never goes above its own rotation axis. The rollers' centers of gravity never go above their rotation axes either. This curious paperweight will just sit there, unmoving.
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: magnetman12003 on August 19, 2014, 02:34:58 PM
still can't see it.
is this it?
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/woodward.jpg (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/woodward.jpg)
as for why it don't work.quote
This 19th century invention by F. G. Woodward suggests that since there's more weight of ring to the left of the two rollers, it must turn counterclockwise. Even naive students immediately recognize that there's no reason to expect it to turn. Does our center of gravity principle apply? It qualifies as a supposedly gravity-driven wheel. The ring's center of gravity never goes above its own rotation axis. The rollers' centers of gravity never go above their rotation axes either. This curious paperweight will just sit there, unmoving.
 

  That's the one!!!    It might work but only if the roller on the top was perfectly in line with the center plane of the hoop.  The hoop has to be heavy and the rollers friction free like modern skate bearings are.  That was made many years ago when roller bearings were not that great.  Any one for trying it out?  All that's needed is a  long 2x4 with roller bolt holes drilled through it. A heavy flat  hoop, two 5/16 inch diameter bolts and skate bearings.  Simple setup. .  Like a SEE-SAW  without the saw part.

http://englishclassperpetualmotion.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/fg-woodward-machine.html (http://englishclassperpetualmotion.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/fg-woodward-machine.html)
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: MarkE on August 19, 2014, 05:01:42 PM
Timken got very very rich making high quality roller bearings.  Better bearings won't make this unworkable idea fly.
Title: Re: Why won't this work??
Post by: Farmhand on August 19, 2014, 07:29:05 PM
I'm a boilermaker and I have used setups like that to hold the pipe/cylinder work piece so it can be welded.
There are lever forces on the rollers but there is no reason for the cylinder to rotate, none at all. You put a cylinder in a "jig" like
that so you can turn the cylinder while its welded around the circumference. If a weight is added to the far left of the hanging
cylinder then the weight will want to go to the bottom of the cylinder and hold it there. Can't you see that ? Looks obvious to me.
if the rollers are good then the cylinder can be turned with not much effort. There is a use for that.

very easy to test, if you think it should work now in modern times for some reason.  :)

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