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### Author Topic: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity  (Read 49532 times)

#### Marsing

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 300
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2014, 06:00:07 PM »
Consider this (my estimate of output power):

Vpeak ~ 100V
Period T ~ 250us
Pulse width t ~ 200ns (assume nice rectangular pulse, even though it is closer to triangle)
Duty cycle D ~ 200ns/250us = 0.08%
Load = 1 Ohm

power = V2/R; 1002/1 = 10kW
now multiply by approximate duty cycle factor of 0.0008, and you have 8W average output power.

Based on this (unless I've made an error somewhere), it seems 98W estimated output power is very optimistic.

hi poynt99

where is T 250us come from and why?  i saw 4khz is input frek.
then 3% from 33 watt input := 0,99 watt average input is very good for 8W output.
sorry if i made any error, just quick count.

..

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2014, 08:33:29 PM »
hi poynt99,

May i ask how do you explain the 250watt x 3 bulb filament got destroyed intentionally at higher input voltage and create spike higher than 180volts which would destroy the filaments.Please produce your version of explanation which i would like to hear.This part i'm at a lost on how to explain myself.
I looked for your video of that but was unable to find it.

Anyway, if you are generating a substantial inductive kickback on the load side of the circuit, it is possible to knock out the filaments from the same effect seen when a regular incandescent 100W bulb gets "burned out" simply from switching the light on. It can conduct a significant current when cold, and as such experience an electro-mechanical kick against the earth's magnetic field.

Quote
Another question i pose to you -Would a incandescent bulb produce blinking effect at high frequency anything more than 18hz .Anything more than that which our human eyes is unable to detect even for fast response led.
Not sure I understand your question, so I'll guess. I would say yes you could probably notice blinking or fading with a bulb driven at 18Hz.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2014, 08:36:29 PM »
A 1 ohm resistor capable of handling 100 Watts is no small thing, and will become quite hot while doing it. You probably would not be able to hold it in your fingers. Think of how hot a 100 Watt lightbulb gets when actually running on mains power.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1431
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2014, 08:42:54 PM »
Is there a way to measure ESR of a capacitor?
It appears that these high voltage ceramic caps I have are low ESR

I ordered them from http://hvstuff.com/high-voltage-capacitors/ceramic/disc
Dissipation Factor   ≤0.01

found a quote somewhere... "(Ceramics have lower ESR than tantalum or aluminum electrolytics.)"
so... should be good, right?

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2014, 08:45:53 PM »
hi poynt99

where is T 250us come from and why?  i saw 4khz is input frek.
then 3% from 33 watt input := 0,99 watt average input is very good for 8W output.
sorry if i made any error, just quick count.

..
See the attached scope shot. Scale is set to 1ms/DIV, so there is roughly 250us between pulses.

...and also 1/4kHz is 250us, right?

I wouldn't count on that 33W figure as being accurate. I haven't seen an explanation as to how he got that figure.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1431
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2014, 09:33:48 PM »

Rewatched original demonstrationhttp://youtu.be/6BnCUBKgnnc?t=20m0s  (describe element)

'radio frequency inductors of 10 millihenries and some (...) pulse capacitors of 0.47 microfarad'
so resonant frequency of that is 2321Hz
Inductive/capacitive reactance is 145Ohm

so these 9.2nF caps I have, have a capacitive reactance of 145 ohms at 118Khz so I should make inductors that are 197.74 MicroHenrys

My original reactances would have been like 550 ohms; maybe the target condition should be low reactance....

#### itsu

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1845
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2014, 11:03:17 PM »
Is there a way to measure ESR of a capacitor?
It appears that these high voltage ceramic caps I have are low ESR

I ordered them from http://hvstuff.com/high-voltage-capacitors/ceramic/disc
Dissipation Factor   ≤0.01

found a quote somewhere... "(Ceramics have lower ESR than tantalum or aluminum electrolytics.)"
so... should be good, right?

Hi d3x0r,

any decent LCR meter is able to measure the ESR of a capacitor which is depending on the frequency used.

See this short video of measuring the ESR of a similar HV ceramic capacitor (9nF/3KV) like yours:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaixmCew7Sw&feature=youtu.be

Regards Itsu

#### gyulasun

• without_ads
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4139
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2014, 11:12:58 PM »
Is there a way to measure ESR of a capacitor?
It appears that these high voltage ceramic caps I have are low ESR

I ordered them from http://hvstuff.com/high-voltage-capacitors/ceramic/disc
Dissipation Factor   ≤0.01

found a quote somewhere... "(Ceramics have lower ESR than tantalum or aluminum electrolytics.)"
so... should be good, right?

Hi,

ESR meters are in fact "AC driven" Ohm meters,  AC here means a single frequency out of  10 kHz or 50 kHz or 100 kHz oscillators which drives a bridge to wich the capacitor to be measured is connected.  There are off the shelf ESR meters or you can build such like shown here:   http://kakopa.com/ESR_meter/    or google for other circuit solutions.

Re on your dissipation factor:  it sounds a moderate dissipation factor to me, its reciprocal gives the Q quality factor which means the Q is higher than 100.   You would expect over 1000 or even higher for a capacitor but of course for such a high voltage type it costs much more.

Gyula

EDIT just noticed itsu post: the 1.99 OHM ESR at 100 kHz sounds indeed high to me...

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1431
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2014, 11:19:31 PM »
@itsu
Thank you very much.

@any
Does capacitance change ESR or is it more of a material attribute?
I should get a decent LC meter... mine's literally L and C.

#### gyulasun

• without_ads
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4139
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2014, 11:25:06 PM »
In Itsu's video at 0:33 you can see D= 0.005 value.  This is the Dissipation factor and taking its reciprocal you get a Q=200 for this capacitor at 100 kHz.

Yes, ESR is frequency dependent.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1431
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2014, 11:26:43 PM »
In Itsu's video at 0:33 you can see D= 0.005 value.  This is the Dissipation factor and taking its reciprocal you get a Q=200 for this capacitor at 100 kHz.

Yes, ESR is frequency dependent.
So it looks like 1) pure impulse is best?
and 2) that increasing from 30Khz to 118Khz will improve performance

#### gyulasun

• without_ads
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4139
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2014, 11:31:39 PM »
Sorry, pure impulse for what?  Measuring ESR?

2) yes, somewhat.

EDIT  Check Chapter 5 and 2.4   here http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1431
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2014, 11:37:38 PM »
Sorry, pure impulse for what?  Measuring ESR?

For for ideal capacitor usage... such as driving a tesla coil... spark gaps

#### gyulasun

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• Hero Member
• Posts: 4139
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2014, 11:43:13 PM »
For for ideal capacitor usage... such as driving a tesla coil... spark gaps

Nope...   for  pulse currents to handle special capacitors are preferred, they are manufactured a bit differently than normal caps.
Try to look for pulse capacitors.  But they have their price...

EDIT A good solution to parallel 5 or more (identical) capacitors to arrive at  the needed value, this way the ESRs parallel also and dissipation becomes less for any individual cap in the paralleled bunch.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2014, 12:14:28 AM »
hi MarkE,

It would be pointless to explain all the needed measurements if the actual experiment don't work out.

There would be estimate 1 month wait for part arrival-induction heating capacitors and etc from ebay China.

In the meantime i am waiting for some parts for Don Smith China replication to wrap this up.This was my primary objective which is related to longitudinal wave.

Don Smith China replication original video from China which i have reverse engineered from little tips here in there in their site seen in pjkbook.pdf-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vowN5BFGW1c

At this point i have completed and demonstrated the
variable high voltage power supply 150volts...1600volts in my youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MknH42t0IGw
What is the point of your simulation if you are not going to install instrumentation in it to get at least reasonably accurate measurements?  To me that is like doing an experiment without setting up to get good measurements.