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Author Topic: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity  (Read 39787 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2014, 07:43:03 AM »
Pretty sure this is basically the diagram of the circuit I was using... not sure if It was staggered (image 2) which works the same...




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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2014, 07:56:55 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C3ZgAkvx_g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySXYCmEi1YU  (attached schematic images)


I don't remember if it worked better or the same as... but it was definatly not worse-than.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2014, 08:09:42 AM »

Mind you I'm using the word 'I think' because it was a year and a half ago and I only played with it a few weeks, cause I had noone to bounce ideas off.  I'm gonna wipe my bench and pick it up again though...

So... I was wrong about the parallel inductance division... I think I discovered I could remove alternating wires by adding  grounding at certain points...once I had all the blank segments grounded, I decided I could instead remove them.... I don't think it matters which side you remove... like at one point I'm sure I had all the bottoms disconnected and all the tops connected... but I dunno, I didn't keep it that way... I think that alternating works better than all one side... so I think alternating works better than and not the same-as both connected.


I think removed segment isn't really conducting... because the capacitor at that point balances what the other coil feeds at that time so there's no effective current...




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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2014, 08:09:42 AM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2014, 10:10:26 AM »
Hi all:
   Mags, thanks for the link here. I really wanted to see where you were going with this.
I can remember back with the start that it said not to hold back on the amp input as this
is what drives the system.  I find this quite true for sure.  Too many times I have seen the
value 6:1 in my measurements. That means 6X rise.
  I noticed in one of your vids that when the bulb filaments broke, the wave form went from
nearly negative to positive and negative. .. anyhow, very interesting  circuit and will be
watching you closely along the way.
   I see all the usual heavy hitters here as well, HI GUYS! On the 7 day week right now so no
time to hit the bench. DAMN this JOB. (insert guys laughing on the floor)  Looking forward to
my vacation soonest and then I will have a whole week to just me. Mags.... Your circuit will
LIVE. Just got my LC and 2 new meters. 3 Scopes and lots of wire on hand.

I have to admit tho, sims can lead you on a merry goose chase. This one is just too hard to
resist tho.

thay

Offline magpwr

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2014, 10:13:39 AM »
@magpwr
I don't suppose your simulation shows any phase difference between the end and the start of the coils?
In my testing, it actually seemed that the phase of the output was actually ahead of the signal driving it... ( although it could have been 330 degrees retarded ) though it did seem to advance further the longer it went instead of being more and more retarded....


I also had at one point my signal generator was in the middle, and one side would get the normal sin wave character, and the other side would get a back-pulse only... which I never figured out a justification for. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCwKhto8kI  kinda from 2:53
the left scope is on the 'left' side of the series of 'analog computers'  the right side is on the right hand side...
THe left gets a pulse oscillation from the start of the signal pulse, whereas the right side gets a bunch of pulses after the left side goes flat.  ...


I guess I'll make a drawing to show what I mean; back in a while

hi d3x0r,

I do ill-advise against putting a signal generator in the middle of the circuit.
Since we know longitudinal wave travels in a compress or  rarefaction manner in a medium in parallel formation.There are few youtube videos to shows this in the spring.

Imagine if you got a long spring as seen in youtube video where 2 end will be stretched a little.Then if you start from the middle by giving a quick to and fro ripple.The longitudinal wave would quickly travel to the left and right end of the spring and both waveform would return back to the center of the spring where you started and "completely cancel each other out if there is equilibrium achieved".

The waveform would be destroyed instantly and there is no chance for waveform to gain momentum from the "next input ripple" from the middle.

Not to confused with Don smith device where there is a capacitor added to one of secondary coil which LC setup would be 1/4 the resonance frequency of the primary/driver(LC) coil which will be placed in the middle of the secondary coil.Likely one side is done this way to slow down the longitudinal wave to 1/4 speed maybe.If done correctly you would observe there is interference on the digital fm portable radio band around 3 meters away.This is likely due to the longitudinal wave which gain momentum to the mhz range ;)

The 2 LC  in my circuit merely serve like a handle of a tuning fork this which allows the main circuit to resonate more freely and gain momentum.This is seen as higher peak in scope(transverse wave) :D

-------------------------------------
Earlier i tried 1/2 bridge formation with various capacitors but this method did not work.I'm sticking with this H-Bridge.

I have attached to show you the waveform from H-Bridge Channel B which is below and Channel A waveform at output stage for reference while in operation.
 
I don't recommend using singe transistor for this task.Even in multisim selecting a proper igbt or mosfet can be tricky.But i am just sticking with this igbt model in image which produce the best result for the lowest amp draw.

I got this feeling the Akula igbt  the one without the protection diode the one which was connected to yoke and the one which showed very narrow pulse for the old design would do the trick as well.
IGBT- FGH50N6S2 

Both igbt's mentioned 200khz in datasheet.




 

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2014, 10:13:39 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2014, 10:26:16 AM »
hi d3x0r,

I do ill-advise against putting a signal generator in the middle of the circuit.
Since we know longitudinal wave travels in a compress or  rarefaction manner in a medium in parallel formation.There are few youtube videos to shows this in the spring.

Imagine if you got a long spring as seen in youtube video where 2 end will be stretched a little.Then if you start from the middle by giving a quick to and fro ripple.The longitudinal wave would quickly travel on the left and right end of the spring and both waveform would return back to the center of the spring where you started and "completely cancel each other out if there is equilibrium achieved".

The waveform would be destroyed instantly and there is no chance for waveform to gain momentum from the "next input ripple" from the middle.

But.  I started with 4 in series (to the left) and it behaved as expected.... although I did still notice strange chirp signals (increasing frequency) on the collector itself.  When I added more modules to the right, the left was unaffected, but the chirp signals continued as extended to the right as more were added modules on the right.  (So the idea of plucking a spring in the middle is not a match for this)


THe transistors I was using were 2 17A 250V darlingtons in parallel... so it could drop 34A at a time... good for at least 300Khz
the coils are 4mH and the caps were 9nf; something like that... resonant frequency around 30kHz

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 10:29:31 AM »
Hi magpwr,

Please notice my answer on including capacitor losses for the simulation (Reply #25 in previous page).

PS: would you use DC coupled scope settings from now on...  ;D

Gyula

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2014, 10:29:31 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2014, 10:39:14 AM »
Hmm maybe this time I'll work out an inductive driver for it instead and decouple the LMD network from the driver more

Offline magpwr

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2014, 01:58:02 PM »
Hi everyone,

I have attached the waveform from my actual experiment which i took a few shots since there was a mirage of the actual waveform.

The actual circuit is running at estimate 2x of the input frequency.

Do you find it strange the waveform from my virtual experiment and actual experiment looks nearly the same. :D :D

I'm using small 474  250volt mica of course but lousy ESR since it's design for radio receiver likely.But produce cleaner signal compared to metalized capacitor.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390885068458?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Some lessons learned today 3" toroids isn't suitable for this job since few windings "9" to get nearly 1mH.But this translates to low voltage <30volts at output due to low winding count and "high" ESR for small capacitor which is designed for receiver.
nanocrystalline toroid produced even worst result at output stage due to lower winding needed to achieve 1mH compared to iron powder toroid.

Next stage waiting for ferrite rods to arrive to resume experiment.Since i would to wind more turns to achieve 1mH.In all case i'm sticking with 18AWG.

The capacitors at the top and bottom need to be paired and matched base on L/C meter reading to ensure longitudinal wave travels in parallel manner,just to be on the safe side before commencing experiment. :D

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2014, 01:58:02 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2014, 02:42:27 PM »
The higher ESR of the mica capacitor is damping ringing that you get with a low ESR plastic film capacitor.  That cleans up the waveforms nicely.  Depending on your point of view it may not be what you want.  If the idea is to maximize the ringing in hopes of OU, then the plastic film capacitor is better from an ESR standpoint.

Offline poynt99

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2014, 03:51:25 PM »
hi MarkE,

I got even better way to show OU.I am using  "1" Ohms resistor at output instead of using 250watt x3  120volt bulb to demonstrate the capability of this circuit.
The spike is nearly 100volts with 1 ohms resistor.
This time i would have to change fuse to 5Amp so my guess it is somewhere below 5Amps.
 
6.6volts x 5Amps=33watt input with around 98watt output for 1 ohms load."This is just an estimate"

The interesting part the output frequency did not deteriorate much with 1 Ohms load.

--------------------------
Latest update-I have attached single spike waveform using 100v/div in the 200ns range for reference using 1 ohms resistor.

Consider this (my estimate of output power):

Vpeak ~ 100V
Period T ~ 250us
Pulse width t ~ 200ns (assume nice rectangular pulse, even though it is closer to triangle)
Duty cycle D ~ 200ns/250us = 0.08%
Load = 1 Ohm

power = V2/R; 1002/1 = 10kW
now multiply by approximate duty cycle factor of 0.0008, and you have 8W average output power.

Based on this (unless I've made an error somewhere), it seems 98W estimated output power is very optimistic.

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2014, 03:51:25 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2014, 04:02:38 PM »
Well if magpwr would install the E element, multiplier, and integrator that I have asked for, then the simulator will give us the energy and power in convenient digital form.

Offline magpwr

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2014, 05:08:00 PM »
Consider this (my estimate of output power):

Vpeak ~ 100V
Period T ~ 250us
Pulse width t ~ 200ns (assume nice rectangular pulse, even though it is closer to triangle)
Duty cycle D ~ 200ns/250us = 0.08%
Load = 1 Ohm

power = V2/R; 1002/1 = 10kW
now multiply by approximate duty cycle factor of 0.0008, and you have 8W average output power.

Based on this (unless I've made an error somewhere), it seems 98W estimated output power is very optimistic.

hi poynt99,

May i ask how do you explain the 250watt x 3 bulb filament got destroyed intentionally at higher input voltage and create spike higher than 180volts which would destroy the filaments.Please produce your version of explanation which i would like to hear.This part i'm at a lost on how to explain myself. :D

Another question i pose to you -Would a incandescent bulb produce blinking effect at high frequency anything more than 18hz .Anything more than that which our human eyes is unable to detect even for fast response led. :D   

Offline MarkE

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2014, 05:23:43 PM »
Magpwr since you have pretty good agreement between your simulation and measurement, you should have confidence that if you measure the power accurately in the simulation that you will get a reasonable answer.

Offline magpwr

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Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2014, 05:28:11 PM »
Magpwr since you have pretty good agreement between your simulation and measurement, you should have confidence that if you measure the power accurately in the simulation that you will get a reasonable answer.

hi MarkE,

It would be pointless to explain all the needed measurements if the actual experiment don't work out. :D

There would be estimate 1 month wait for part arrival-induction heating capacitors and etc from ebay China.

In the meantime i am waiting for some parts for Don Smith China replication to wrap this up.This was my primary objective which is related to longitudinal wave. :D

Don Smith China replication original video from China which i have reverse engineered from little tips here in there in their site seen in pjkbook.pdf-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vowN5BFGW1c

At this point i have completed and demonstrated the
variable high voltage power supply 150volts...1600volts in my youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MknH42t0IGw

 

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