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### Author Topic: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity  (Read 53309 times)

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« on: August 16, 2014, 07:12:29 AM »
hi everyone,

I have just created this new topic which was being discussed in Kapanadze Dally thread.

Please refer to that thread on how i started experimenting on Longitudinal Wave starting from version 1.0.This similar experiment was done in JLN Lab in the late 90s to demonstrate ou at 1.8x.It's being more than 10 years and i have modified the original circuit to give even higher output at low voltage.

The key difference i am using  "nanopulse" or "narrowpulse" achieve even better output than the original experiment which was using sine-wave.

At this moment my virtual project have reached version 6.0 and i am slowly starting on actual Longitudinal experiment to prove there is overunity without the need for Akula or Kapanadze device.
There is more than 1 way to achieve overunity.

I have attached the latest version 6.0 circuit  to demonstrate how i power 3x 250watt 120volts incandescent bulb at the verge of  bulb filament destruction  at 180volts.

The input voltage is 6.6volts using just below 2Amps(Below 13watt input).I using 2amp fuse to demonstrate as it is harder to show current draw if it is pulsing on scope via 0.1ohms resistor.

Important latest findings-The 2 LC circuit which consist of (300uH,0.22uf) & (200uH,0.22uf) these which allow the main circuit which consisting of 0.47uf capacitors and bunch of inductors 1mH,500uH to resonate freely.The latest discovery the LC circuit value can be changed randomly and the output would be the same somewhat.

-------------------------------------------------------
I have attached mp4 video to show normal operation at 750watt/12.x watt input.
In video i have revealed how i destroyed 750watt bulb filament using <13watt input power merely by increasing input voltage at +0.1volt at 6.7volts at under 2Amps.

In video also revealed-Altering the 2 LC does play a important role in allowing the main circuit to resonate freely but the value can be selected randomly.Still experimenting at this stage but useful discovery.

Do observe the output frequency is around 5 times the input frequency.The input is 4.2khz the output is around 21khz.I have mentioned about "gaining momentum in frequency even under load" which is one of the important factors to achieve OU.Don Smith device is using similar approach by using longitudinal wave to create higher frequency as the wave get bounched to and fro within the secondary coil.

Doing some basic  research online i found that longitudinal wave travel the fastest on a medium.Do read up on earthquake longitudinal wave (P-Wave) and check out one of many youtube video where
they used spring to demonstrate longitudinal wave in slow motion.

The same principle do not apply for the typical transformer(Transverse wave) as we were taught for a long time.

------------------------------------------------------------
I have just uploaded 2 more photos to show

1)the waveform from the H-Bridge would look like.It seems strange only this igbt model seems to perform better than the rest in multisim.There is also the the inbuilt diode version for the same igbt model which perform nearly the same but consume little higher current. This igbt was last tested using 5Amp fuse for  older circuit version 3.0...5.0.

2)Waveform from output stage set at 10us range at 100volts/div in scope.

-----------------------------------
Capacitor selection for this project***********Important***********

I found the best modern alternative besides mica capacitors after doing some research in radio sites.I have made serious \$\$ mistake by buying metalized capacitor.
Please avoid metalized version at all cost as these capacitors at high frequency would have inductance effect.

We need to go for recommended type of capacitors foil/film based.
The induction heating capacitors is the best choice reason because of it's low ESR and it's Polypropylene Film."Source ebay  seller China"
Typically 1200VDC Rated.

The best is of course Teflon and mica capacitors.I have seen Teflon capacitors sold in ebay but it's expensive.

----------------------------------
Inductor for this project-*********Important************

I can't decide which is better yet be it ferrite rod or toroid at this moment.But need to ensure it's able to handle high Amp around 5Amp eg:18AWG copper bifilar.

-----------------------------------
Current project i am using TC4428  from signal generator-

Please avoid using PWM generator at the initial stage of the experiment due to slight frequency stability issue.

I find that using signal generator set at 3...4% duty cycle is able to provide necessary signal to TC4428(1.5Amp rated) even via 1 x 1k resistor connected to both input of TC4428(22volts max).Both input channel of I/C:TC4428 is tied together.

The out to be connected to the recommended igbt model G4BC10U or G4BC10UD for H-Bridge.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 09:34:11 AM by magpwr »

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 07:20:13 AM »

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 07:42:17 AM »

hi MarkE,

I think you have spoken way too soon this time as i just created this new topic just minutes ago and in the mist of the uploading video and show my actual experiment.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 07:51:30 AM »
I am asking what you think:

1) The circuit does that is unusual for its composition,
2) What you think that it si that causes the alleged unexpected behavior.

#### Farmhand

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1583
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 07:55:40 AM »
OK so it's officially a claim of more energy output than energy input then ! An OU claim, yay, it's about time, I thought I would never
see a OU device claim that I could replicate, maybe this one I can. Looks like Eric Dollard's "Analogue Computer" LC network thingy.

If it was truly O.U. I would have thought a lot of experimenters would have shown it by now. Looks like spikes in and waves out.

Scope shots will show the current ok I think. Other resistor values can be used.

I hope you don't mind providing sufficient evidence to convince electricians, electrical engineers and a free energy experimenters.
People will need details for replications.

Cheers

#### Farmhand

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1583
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 08:00:45 AM »
Mark, I think I can answer those two very valid questions myself, but it would only be my opinion of what the gentleman sees happening.

1) Outputs more Energy than is input.
2) Converts short input pulses into sine waves at the load due to resonance.

..

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 08:24:21 AM »
I am asking what you think:

1) The circuit does that is unusual for its composition,
2) What you think that it si that causes the alleged unexpected behavior.

hi MarkE,

I just want to be honest i really don't know how to explain the full theories as i merely tried to duplicate the original experiment which i started around 2 weeks back .

This experiment was done in the 80s and i simply applied the same in the virtual environment for fun at first.But surprised me when it produced interesting results.

I have attached the most important but boring 80s video -"Eric Dollard Transverse and Longitudinal Wave"  -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc

This link was recommended by Chinese developer Ming Cao found on Page 277 Latest version of PJKBOOK.PDF (May 2014 edition)

I have attached my not so interesting version 1.0 experiment once more using sine-wave 100watt output/60watt input. 1.6x ou.

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 08:38:19 AM »
OK so it's officially a claim of more energy output than energy input then ! An OU claim, yay, it's about time, I thought I would never
see a OU device claim that I could replicate, maybe this one I can. Looks like Eric Dollard's "Analogue Computer" LC network thingy.

If it was truly O.U. I would have thought a lot of experimenters would have shown it by now. Looks like spikes in and waves out.

Scope shots will show the current ok I think. Other resistor values can be used.

I hope you don't mind providing sufficient evidence to convince electricians, electrical engineers and a free energy experimenters.
People will need details for replications.

Cheers

hi Farmhand,

I did spot some similar setup in youtube but trust me those are not useful to watch at all.It makes you wanna leave this project.

They used cheap ceramics capacitors instead of mica capacitors used in original video.My recommendation would be to use  "induction heater capacitor" as used in cooker.I have mentioned for the opening comment for this thread under capacitor selection guide.

They used the  common signal generator like we use which do not have sufficient drive power in itself.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1433
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 09:32:19 AM »
@magpwr
So why not try in your sim to bypass
C3-C8 and L3-L5 and see if you don't get the same results?

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 09:59:11 AM »
@magpwr
So why not try in your sim to bypass
C3-C8 and L3-L5 and see if you don't get the same results?

hi d3x0r,

As requested i have demonstrate your version as suggested base on sine-wave .

May i ask what is happening here base on screenshot?

The output is the same as the version 1.0 but little lower current draw.
It's late afternoon i am little tired now to think.Time to grab late lunch...

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 10:00:37 AM »
Why do people persist in reporting power measurements from oscilloscope channels that are AC COUPLED?

Magpwr: Here, I have a FE device for you to measure. Just one thing though: Before you make your measurements, I need you to put these 0.1 uF capacitors in series with your oscilloscope probes. All your power computations on my circuit must be made with scope probes with these capacitors in series.

What do you say?

(I see that for the latest shot you have changed the coupling. Good. So what's the explanation for using AC coupling initially, then changing to DC coupling for this last shot?)

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2014, 10:05:05 AM »
hi MarkE,

I just want to be honest i really don't know how to explain the full theories as i merely tried to duplicate the original experiment which i started around 2 weeks back .

This experiment was done in the 80s and i simply applied the same in the virtual environment for fun at first.But surprised me when it produced interesting results.

I have attached the most important but boring 80s video -"Eric Dollard Transverse and Longitudinal Wave"  -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc

This link was recommended by Chinese developer Ming Cao found on Page 277 Latest version of PJKBOOK.PDF (May 2014 edition)

I have attached my not so interesting version 1.0 experiment once more using sine-wave 100watt output/60watt input. 1.6x ou.

Please put an E element with a gain of one as a differential voltage sense across the light bulb load.  Insert  a current sense resistor in series with the bulb.  Follow that resistor with an E element with gain set to 1/RCURRENT SENSE.  DC couple those E element outputs to your scope  Once the voltage and current look sane, then connect a X1 multiplier to get your instantaneous power.

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2014, 10:15:24 AM »
Why do people persist in reporting power measurements from oscilloscope channels that are AC COUPLED?

Magpwr: Here, I have a FE device for you to measure. Just one thing though: Before you make your measurements, I need you to put these 0.1 uF capacitors in series with your oscilloscope probes. All your power computations on my circuit must be made with scope probes with these capacitors in series.

What do you say?

(I see that for the latest shot you have changed the coupling. Good. So what's the explanation for using AC coupling initially, then changing to DC coupling for this last shot?)

hi TinselKoala,

Thanks for spotting that one.I have re attached the waveform shown in scope with AC setting.I was playing around with settings and forget about it.
Damm i got have that lunch-I need to charge.

can you draw me basic capacitor connection to probe.I am unable to think clearly now.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1433
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2014, 10:38:31 AM »
Why do people persist in reporting power measurements from oscilloscope channels that are AC COUPLED?

(I see that for the latest shot you have changed the coupling. Good. So what's the explanation for using AC coupling initially, then changing to DC coupling for this last shot?)
In this case there should be no effective difference... there is no DC bias; and the AC auto-decay leveling won't have long enough to decay to matter... it's a high frequency resonant signal anyway... it would result in biasing the signal toward 0 slightly... which would be more conservative than DC coupling anyway?

@magpwr
it's the same, because one module is as good as 4 because all 4 does is have more resonant tanks inbetween to resonate the same sort of energy... it's lower current because you don't have to feed so many resonant tanks.
At least in simulators; they do not indicate the same growth that eric demonstrated... and there's no guarantee there wasn't someone off camera that was making an adjustment as he walked up the chain; given his attitude I would doubt this, but if there is a growth in reality then the math that the simulators are based on will not show it.  There's no reason that power oscillating in the end won't also feed back to the start in the 4 module circuit.

There is a difference between your circuit and Eric's though.... The coils in the middle are a parallel coil... which should be 1/2 the total inductance... (1/L1+1/L2 where L1=L2... 1/Lt = 2/L1 ...   2*Lt = L1 ...  Lt = 1/2 L1    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits#Inductors_2 )
http://youtu.be/6BnCUBKgnnc?t=26m55s

There were other LMD experiments I saw that they put them on the same core... which also isn't the same as 2 inductors in parallel.

#### magpwr

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1168
##### Re: Longitudinal Wave Experiment to demonstrate Overunity
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2014, 10:59:26 AM »
In this case there should be no effective difference... there is no DC bias; and the AC auto-decay leveling won't have long enough to decay to matter... it's a high frequency resonant signal anyway... it would result in biasing the signal toward 0 slightly... which would be more conservative than DC coupling anyway?

@magpwr
it's the same, because one module is as good as 4 because all 4 does is have more resonant tanks inbetween to resonate the same sort of energy... it's lower current because you don't have to feed so many resonant tanks.
At least in simulators; they do not indicate the same growth that eric demonstrated... and there's no guarantee there wasn't someone off camera that was making an adjustment as he walked up the chain; given his attitude I would doubt this, but if there is a growth in reality then the math that the simulators are based on will not show it.  There's no reason that power oscillating in the end won't also feed back to the start in the 4 module circuit.

There is a difference between your circuit and Eric's though.... The coils in the middle are a parallel coil... which should be 1/2 the total inductance... (1/L1+1/L2 where L1=L2... 1/Lt = 2/L1 ...   2*Lt = L1 ...  Lt = 1/2 L1    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits#Inductors_2 )
http://youtu.be/6BnCUBKgnnc?t=26m55s

There were other LMD experiments I saw that they put them on the same core... which also isn't the same as 2 inductors in parallel.

hi d3x0r,

I have previously  tried applying 2 inductors(1mH x 2) in parallel as shown in original video and  using 1 inductor(500uH) both gave exact same output.There is no difference even the output frequency shows the same.

But comes to current handling which likely be better using 2 inductor in actual experiment or use bifilar approach to increase current handling capability besides worrying about the core.

I did tweak inductor value to find the best output.From experiment i found that using 1mH inductor would need less current at input.

----------------------------------------------------
In the meantime i am also working on Don Smith China replication-

I have just completed my largest PCB creation in my home to date.
I have attached the Circuit board which will mount 6 x CREE IGBT 1200volts ,180khz...235khz signal generator and power supply for 3" toroid which will provide 6 x isolated 20volts to all the 6 x FOD3180 isolated IGBT driver via voltage regulator 7820.

I have attached both original photos and my version for the 6XIGBT Driver.

Waiting out for liquid tin to arrive to give this board a good shine.

I still need to figure out the last headache a custom assembled field capacitor with a high "Q" in my head with Teflon,toroid,copper sheet.