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Author Topic: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference  (Read 61530 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2014, 04:30:54 AM »
G4R:

Thank you for your comments and I basically agree with what you said.

Mark:

I am not literally afraid, it's the old cliche that you are more likely to be hit by a car than die in a plane crash.  It's the principle that is important.  How far is the gap between being called a "paid shill" and being in a place in the world where if you don't follow the "right" God, then you have to change your ways or be expelled or even killed.  The gap may seem large, but at the same time the gap is not really that large.  Think Lord of the Flies.

Being called a "paid shill" is akin to being called a child molester as it could be perceived by some people around here.  It's like sitting at a lunch counter in 1954 and someone calls you a n*gger and tells you the lunch counter is off limits to you.  As far as I am concerned there is a connection.

I think that you need to decide whether or not the name calling is a serious issue.  If it is, then I suggest walking away is prudent.  If it isn't, then I think you are making a bigger deal of it than is warranted.  I can't compare talking on a particular message board with being denied equal use of public and private facilities. 
Quote

Being called a "paid shill" is a form of intimidation.  The implicit message is "you are not one of us and in fact you are a despicable human being."  It's just plain wrong and it goes against the forum rules and my personal principles.
That is true.  Life isn't fair.  The forum is moderated such as it is.  If the behavior is a real problem, then you can step away.  If it isn't then the name calling is a side-show.  I subscribe to the latter premise.
Quote

I can't speak the truth based on my average-to-half-decent knowledge of energy and electronics?  No way!  As long as the forum accepts a plurality of opinion with the goal of understanding various free energy propositions, I do not want to be called a "paid shill" and all that that term implies.
Lots of people want things, even reasonable things.  What we should get, and what we can get often don't line-up.  One should be able to walk in any neighborhood at night and be safe.  Most people know better and do not insist on testing their luck where a reasonable person assesses there is a real danger.
Quote

As far as the issue of random acts of unspeakable violence goes, just check out the site LiveLeak if you want.  People can do the most stupid and horrible things, even if they are very rare events.

MileHigh
Lots of things are possible if even very unlikely.  The various options of what to do are yours.  I recommend not taking any of the insults or false accusations seriously, especially as long as you remain masked behind a pseudonym.  Were your real person to ever be threatened, that would be a federal crime.  Then you might want to think about such acts more seriously.  And then you would have different recourse.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2014, 04:49:41 AM »
Mark:

Your points are all well taken and they are reasonable, balanced, and wise.  I don't want to over blow this but I want to make a firm point.

Let me shift gears:

Acca and SteelTPU:  What do you have to say about the discussion that just took place over the past few postings? I want to hear both of your opinions.  I also would like to know how much technical education and knowledge you have in electronics and general energy concepts.

Please go ahead and respond to the questions above and feel free to say anything else that you want to say to the readers of this thread.

MileHigh

Offline TheCell

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2014, 08:41:07 AM »
What is the material of the big core with the 2 secondary windings ?
Everyone notifies a heat dissipation loss, but a cooling effect does not get the attention is deserves.
There was a discussion about magnetostriction and profitis revealed this effect which was later confirmed by MH, if I remember correct.
For me and most other OU interested it is not obvious , why some users post so often, and I guess there is a paid team behind some users, because a single person is not able to concentrate on more than one ore two subjects at a time.
A solution to all of this would be a ignore function , that one could apply to certain users.
Or a dynamic ignore function : I ignore Users who's posting rate exceeds a certain value:
Per Day, Week , Month or
Posting rate Per Day, Week , Month in a specific thread.
And also : I ignore Users, that ignore me.
There is an example :https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/71701-add-an-ignore-function-in-the-forum/
Personally I have no problems being ignored, but regarding some other egos here , I think they have a problem with it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2014, 08:41:07 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2014, 11:38:13 AM »
What is the material of the big core with the 2 secondary windings ?
Everyone notifies a heat dissipation loss, but a cooling effect does not get the attention is deserves.
There was a discussion about magnetostriction and profitis revealed this effect which was later confirmed by MH, if I remember correct.
For me and most other OU interested it is not obvious , why some users post so often, and I guess there is a paid team behind some users, because a single person is not able to concentrate on more than one ore two subjects at a time.
A solution to all of this would be a ignore function , that one could apply to certain users.
Or a dynamic ignore function : I ignore Users who's posting rate exceeds a certain value:
Per Day, Week , Month or
Posting rate Per Day, Week , Month in a specific thread.
And also : I ignore Users, that ignore me.
There is an example :https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/71701-add-an-ignore-function-in-the-forum/
Personally I have no problems being ignored, but regarding some other egos here , I think they have a problem with it.
The shiny appearance suggests ingot iron or mild steel, possibly with some nickel.  I did not see lines that laminations would form.  If you really want to know the exact material, contacting Bill Alek directly is probably your best bet.

Offline TheCell

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2014, 12:23:14 PM »
<contacting Bill Alek directly is probably your best bet> .. and so I did. I will post the response , if I get one.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2014, 12:23:14 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline itsu

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2014, 12:46:55 PM »
What is the material of the big core with the 2 secondary windings ?
.........

At 11:28 into the video he mentions METGLAS.

Regards itsu

Offline TheCell

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2014, 12:55:28 PM »
Thanks. Itsu (did not recognize it at first viewing)  ???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2014, 12:55:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2014, 01:06:39 PM »
At the top of the page, under the "Overunity" banner: Select "Profile", "summary", "modify Profile", "Buddies/Ignore list" and then you will see the options to modify your Ignore List.

Then when someone on your Ignore list makes a post, you don't see it in the thread but you do see a notification placeholder that you may then click through if you want to see what people are saying about you. Which, of course, you will do.

 ;D

(People who think I have a lot of posts may forget, or not even know, that I have carried on a multi-year debunk, since 2009, of the proven liar and data-fabricator Rosemary Ainslie, which accounts for perhaps half my total. More posts were concerned with the proven and admitted fraud Mylow, the ridiculous comedy claimant Archer Quinn, and a few others who made claims they could not back up and eventually vanished, like elecar to name one particularly egregious case, and Wayne Travis, another. Time wasted, unnecessary posts? Sure, if you like. Are you still trying to "replicate" Mylow, then?)
 

Offline TheCell

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2014, 01:24:46 PM »
Thanks Tk for the hint. (Did not look close enough through the menus) , but would only apply this to a few (it's to harsh). A dynamic blocker would make more sense .
And I am not looking for an award of any kind here, (what people think about me)






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2014, 01:24:46 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2014, 02:24:24 PM »
At 11:28 into the video he mentions METGLAS.

Regards itsu
METGLAS is very popular with free energy experimenters.  It has both a high permeability and a sharp saturation curve.  In the video the sine waves did not appear distorted, so at the levels shown the core was not saturating.

Offline G4RR3ττ

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2014, 08:04:23 PM »
As already pointed out, the core is tape wound and cut into a type C config using a metglas alloy; most likely type 2605SA1, which is an iron based alloy used in power transformers.

At the moment, I wouldn't be too concerned with the core alloy; though admittedly, the lower loss the core, the more likely you would be to obtain Alek's results (if they are possible in the first place).

I spent a couple of hours last night trying to figure how Alek's device could work using normal circuit theory.

After some refresher reading from Terman's Radio Engineering 3rd Ed. pgs 55-58, it would seem that the complex impedance reflected from his common mode choke segment is causing the phase angle of the primary circuit to shift in the opposite direction than would happen otherwise. Basically, Terman points out that if the secondary current is 30 degrees lagging, it will reflect to the primary to be 30 degrees leading, so that it will partially cancel out the primary's inductance. Since the coupling coefficient can't exceed 1, the best you could hope for is completely nulling out the primary inductance. That is, the primary becomes completely resistive, as you would expect. However, in Alek's transformer, the power factor decreases when the secondary is loaded, which means the reflected impedance is making the primary more reactive--which isn't normal. When shorted, the vector sum of the reflected load impedance and the primary's leakage inductance and ESR add to an angle >90, which means that not only is the secondary paying for the primary's resistive losses its also driving the AC source like a load.

Certainly sounds too good to be true. At any rate, I'm going to throw some functions together and see exactly what load impedance and coupling factor is needed to simulate his results. Which will give some insight into how the common mode choke section is performing in the circuit. No need to build something until you understand how or why it could work.

To be continued...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2014, 08:04:23 PM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2014, 09:20:28 PM »
Hello,

Auroatek measurement failures: see attached screenshot  edited by me.

Even Naudin had to find out the selfinductance of power-resistors.

The two black resitsors used in this demonstration are very old resistors with
resistance-wire applied on a ceramic tube -> selfinductance

Absolutly a no-go for power-measurements in the range of 3.2 KHz

Next: if my assumtion is correct then these two Digimeters at the left
are only designed for AC and never will show  correct values at 3.2 Khz

Why does he not use his scope on the output-resitors ?

So what`s the value of all this demonstration and calculations base on wrong
values measured ? A waste of time

Regards

Kator01


Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2014, 09:56:01 PM »
As already pointed out, the core is tape wound and cut into a type C config using a metglas alloy; most likely type 2605SA1, which is an iron based alloy used in power transformers.

At the moment, I wouldn't be too concerned with the core alloy; though admittedly, the lower loss the core, the more likely you would be to obtain Alek's results (if they are possible in the first place).

I spent a couple of hours last night trying to figure how Alek's device could work using normal circuit theory.

After some refresher reading from Terman's Radio Engineering 3rd Ed. pgs 55-58, it would seem that the complex impedance reflected from his common mode choke segment is causing the phase angle of the primary circuit to shift in the opposite direction than would happen otherwise. Basically, Terman points out that if the secondary current is 30 degrees lagging, it will reflect to the primary to be 30 degrees leading, so that it will partially cancel out the primary's inductance. Since the coupling coefficient can't exceed 1, the best you could hope for is completely nulling out the primary inductance. That is, the primary becomes completely resistive, as you would expect. However, in Alek's transformer, the power factor decreases when the secondary is loaded, which means the reflected impedance is making the primary more reactive--which isn't normal. When shorted, the vector sum of the reflected load impedance and the primary's leakage inductance and ESR add to an angle >90, which means that not only is the secondary paying for the primary's resistive losses its also driving the AC source like a load.

Certainly sounds too good to be true. At any rate, I'm going to throw some functions together and see exactly what load impedance and coupling factor is needed to simulate his results. Which will give some insight into how the common mode choke section is performing in the circuit. No need to build something until you understand how or why it could work.

To be continued...
His transformer has weak coupling:  K << 0.99.  This makes it look like most of the primary inductance is isolated, resulting in a large phase shift.

Offline G4RR3ττ

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2014, 10:06:16 PM »
Kator01,

FYI, I'm a test equipment nut--seriously--and if you were too, you would know that most DMMs are good up to 100kHz bandwidth... Most go to 300kHz (most hand held Flukes) or even 1MHz (high end HP/Keithley bench meters), so how does your point about 3.2kHz signal frequency have any validity? Further the harmonic content is likely less than 3% (IMD and hysteresis), so implying that there is substantial energy content in harmonics is just inane.

Further, if you knew anything about inductance, you would realize that the smaller the diameter of the former the greater the opposing mutual inductance, counter currents become closer. Also, the greater the spacing between turns the lower the aiding mutual inductance, aiding currents can't couple as well. Ceramic resistance coils exhibit both of the aforementioned phenomena: wide turn spacing, small diameter coil former. Ironically, in most cases, a straight wire has more inductance than a single loop or a loosely wound small diameter coil! Do the measurements!

Point is, the long connecting wires on the secondary side probably have equal or more inductance than the power resistors, but I never heard you point that out... But, point well taken. Inductance of the secondary circuit contributes to the total secondary load impedance.

I doubt the power factor on the load side is a major detractor here. Particularly in in light of the fact that the major component of the complex impedance is resistive. Assume the stray inductance is equal to about 5uH, at 3.2khz this equates to 100 milliohms or 0.1ohm. I'm not seeing how this materially affected the power factor. Now let's say the stray inductance a bit higher at 100uH, we get 2ohms of reactance which might start to actually have significance. When we find the impedance however, 11.39V / 0.459A, we get about 24.81ohms of impedance. Solving for R we get about 24.72ohms... The phase angle (arcsin (X/Z) = theta) should be close to  4.62 degrees... And your point was that our new correct power measurement of 5.2109W_real is significantly lower than the 5.228 as calculated by Alek. Right. Real good job on the math.

Feel free to point out any errors, or misunderstandings on my part.

Offline G4RR3ττ

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2014, 10:12:47 PM »
Mark,

The secondary magnetic circuit is a COMMON MODE choke, meaning it doesn't contain differential mode inductance! That is, the magnetic fields of each winding null out to leakage levels. Assuming I understand how both common mode chokes work and Alek's circuit, your point about k<<1 might be off. Of course it will be lower than a normal transformer because his windings do not completely enclose the primary core section--there is open space. BTW I've built magamps that use very similar construction to Alek's transformer and achieved rather high coupling coefficients. If you want I can take some pics and post the measurement results.'

Also, your point about the coupling coefficient is wrong, in the sense that regardless of its value, the load impedance is reflected back to the primary. Thus primary inductance MUST decrease when the secondary is loaded, thereby lowering the primary impedance and appearing more resistive--however slightly this may be due to weak coupling. Why Alek's transformer does the opposite is the real question.

 

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