Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ sauce TK; are you still using Win98?! Hopefully it's just a virtual machine... Thou hath dated thine self--if not used to solely run your scope software.

Ahem. Moving on, I do agree that measurement error is likely. First, never trust any "TRMS" measurements made by meters that don't use thermal methods. Admittedly, since there is low harmonic content, TRMS converter accuracy really isn't that big of an issue here. Second, I don't trust those old Fluke 90 series scope meters for serious measurement accuracy, particularly when it comes to determining phase angle.

Phase should have been measured with a two channel 100MHz+ counter (e.g. Racal-Dana 1992 / Keithley 776 / Philips 6666 or equivalent.) and the phase offset at the frequency of operation should have been determined for the current sensor: Transformer disconnected, with a resistor of known value shorting the amplifier to determine phase offset and amplitude accuracy of the measurement system (current sensor signal and voltage across R_L should have equal phase and amplitude after quantitative corrections). Second, are all the connecting cables of the same length going to the scope? Velocity factor and transmission line distance do affect phase, although subtly at these low frequencies. The offset test would compensate for this, but assuming wires are the same length and same V_f along with assuming no phase offset at the hall-effect sensor is bad measurement ethic.

I'm still open to the idea, however. I do think it is possible to maintain reflection at the primary (remaining mostly "reactive") and do work at the secondary with a lower net divergence of energy from the source than that done by the load. If you integrate the product of V_pri(t) * I_pri(t) at the primary and integrate V_sec(t) * I_sec(t) at the secondary, using the measurements taken by Bill Alek, you get a greater divergence of energy at the load than that seen by the source. Integration in this instance yields the net energy, which denotes direction of real power: positive = loss of energy, negative = gain in energy, zero = no net change. Thus power is indeed dissipated at the primary, but more is dissipated at the load.

Alek seems to believe that the secondary bucking fields are causing a material* effect in the common-mode choke section. *"material" as in material science, an effect due to the atomic and or molecular structure of a substance. Which is an interesting idea in consideration of all the odd phenomena that magnetic materials are capable of (e.g. magnetic refrigeration, spin waves and giant magnetoreistance), it seems plausible that a material effect could be taking place.

If the cooling effect is indeed real (I'm not implying that it is), it could be that ambient thermal energy (heat) is being converted into electrical energy by some quantum or atomic process. Basically a heat pump that transforms a quantity of heat into an increase in magnetism. Electrically it would appear to be seen as a negative resistance and the phase angle is directly proportional to this as arctan (X/-R) = theta. Which gives a negative angle. If you add 180 to this you get Alek's >90 angle phenomena. Both of which graph the same sine wave.

@G4RR3ττ

Heh.... sharp eyes indeed!

The oscilloscope is a Link DSO2100M, 2-ch 100 MHz scope, generously donated to the lab. It was manufactured in 1997 and uses a bidirectional parallel port interface! And the only computer I have left operational with an actual parallel port is the venerable IBM ThinkPad 600e that I got in 1998 or so when I was at the Miles Davis Anomalous Jazz Propulsion Laboratory in SF CA USA. A perfect match! The 600e works perfectly with the Link and takes up not too much space in the clutter. It is a small hassle to transfer scope image and data dump files as there is no onboard ethernet and of course no radio, but fortunately it has bleeding edge tech: a single USB port!
I've been thinking seriously about upgrading the OS to Win98SE. Just in case I want audio with MineSweeper or something.

All my real boxen are Linuxes.

My response to Les Banki 
Thanks for the following  post as you are right Overunity dot com is infiltrated with self appointed paid “shills” to kill any idea that has a any potential of any fruition, there is NO DEBATE at all !! It’s just cut and gut the whole idea… How does one get 10,000 posts like TinselKoala or Milehigh 2900 in a short time ??
Simple that is “Their Job” 8 hours a day.. These “Shills” are the real enemy of “FREE Energy” like TinselKoala, Milehigh, MarkE.. these are the biggest negative influence here !!
 
Acca..
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from Les Banki to   “MarkE” forum TROLL !!
 
 ”You may have fooled a few readers on this forum in the past with LOTS of empty words in your 2885 posts but I (for one) know who you are and what you are trying to achieve...
 
 You are NOT very good at it.... (are you still getting paid???)
 
If you want to follow the "advise" of a full time, PROFESSIONAL SABOTEUR, good luck to you but don't say I didn't warn you!!
 
 Just go back to the start of this thread and look WHO was the first to respond to Stefan's opening post!?
 

 THAT can't possibly be allowed to happen by the self-appointed CRIMINAL ruling elite controlling mankind from day one!
 
PROFESSIONAL SABOTEURS on most Forums is one.
 Their role is to first gain the confidence of the readers by giving the impression that they are "experts" on the subject and want to help.
 Those who are stupid enough to follow their "technical" advice will FAIL, get frustrated and in the end will conclude that everything is a fake and GIVE UP! 
 Mission accomplished..
 
STOP arguing and theorizing!
 Get your hands dirty instead and you might get your FREE ENERGY!
 
 Cheers,
 Les Banki”
 
 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
MileHigh said:
 
“I watched the whole clip.  The next step would be for someone independent to test the same setup.  The clip is too long and would require too much effort for me to check all the connections and scope settings, etc.”
 
TinselKoala said:
 
“I see that in the video, Alek assumes that his load is completely resistive and produces no phase shift and that the rms values read from the meters can simply be directly multiplied to get the real output power. This is not true.”
 
“What Alek showed is a great demonstration of measurement error and misdirection, nothing more.”
 
“I have never seen any instrumental data that supports this claim.”
“I will happily wager all that I own, or a hundred dollar donation to a no-kill animal shelter, that this claim is untrue.”
“it's just another claim without support that turns out to be false when properly tested. “
”I do not trust Sterling's ability to discriminate a three degree phase shift on a portable digital oscilloscope, sorry.”
“ There has been no evidence presented in support of this radical claim”
“the reason I put forth challenges like this is because I _know_ you won't accept them. Your own belief in the reality of Alek's claims is actually not that strong.”
“failure to show null tests that establish the accuracy of his measurements, particularly phase-shift.”
 
Milehigh said:
 
Supporting his troll brother:
 
“Dead on Mark like usual.  I am surprised that I actually watched a clip that long.  I have lost a lot of the vigor to get into it these days so your comments are welcome.  If you want to be cynical, this was just a rehearsed pitch to a willing audience so he pulled it off quite well.  I was too lazy to see how much difference the variance in the phase angle would cause to the number crunching.”
 
 
 
Some one is pissed at the resident "Shill Trolls" !!
 
Steeltpu said:
 
“trolls seen squiming in their chairs and overheard saying: there is always some little detail we can find to turn a mole hill into a mountain.   if not we'll make something up that sounds believable.”
 
 

Sill
 
A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.
"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent  of for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services. Shills are often employed by interests. "Plant" and "stooge" more commonly refer to any person who is secretly in league with another person or organization while pretending to be neutral or actually a part of the organization he is planted in, like intelligence organization.
Shill can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, such a critic would be an indirect shill for the industry at large, because said critic's income is tied to the prosperity of the industry.

Acca ,

Kiss my aura with your BS allegations.  You are probably part of the "drive-by scared free energy clueless rabbit" variety, just like SteelTPU.  You probably can't make a coherent argument to support someone's free energy proposition, or to challenge comments from people like myself or Mark or TK, presumably because you have no education or background in this subject matter. So you are reduced to drive-by nasty comments and then running away.

Chances are you don't even understand what we are saying, all that you know is that it is "bad."

MileHigh

You know, after having written that spiel, and then reading MH's ad hominem, I tend to regret any implied and or remote idea that he had good intentions...  Well we all can't be "gentlemen and scholars;" some people just like to argue, and to what end? It's like mental masturbation, but more sophomoric. Can't we examine an idea or invention without getting emotionally invested?

Real science isn't about attacking peoples character or even proving people right or wrong, it's about examining nature and determining if your hypothesis can explain your observations. Since there is already a strong foundation of accumulated work in place, we often unwittingly rely on it when making certain assumptions: like my voltmeter will read volts and inductance causes a lagging current etc. If someone's claim goes against these assumptions we need to examine the possibility that our assumptions are wrong and need to be corrected. General principles aside, no theory or "law" is above questioning. 

I would have thought that making false allegations of specific people being paid "shills" would be against the forum rules. Or any
allegations of specific people being any nefarious entity is denigrating that person and so is abusive unless it can be proven to be
true. These people making such allegations against other persons should be moderated, warned and banned if the abuse
continues. If the accused responds in kind the entire threads end up a farce of accusations and madness.

The evidence of people being "paid shills" is just as absent as the evidence for any OU.

Basically people make crazy silly claims and others that question those claims get abuse and accusations of being a "paid shill".
Either people want to back up claims or they don't, if you make a claim you should be able to back it up.

..

MH,

Touché, haha. I agree that being called a paid shill is an annoyance, but to say its like being called a child molester is going a bit far... Though I do understand your frustration.

At any rate, I completely agree that most people frequenting forums like this have an alarming lack of technical understanding and an equally alarming tendency to accept almost anything as fact if it even remotely agrees with their personal bias (such as "I believe in free energy", thus all free energy devices must be real). That said, lowering your arguments to logical fallacies (i.e. ad hominem) doesn't help, but annoyance tends to bring it out--which natural.

Mark,

Thanks for the reply.

I am in 100% agreement on the requirement of "compelling data." There's no reason to change an established concept unless it can be unquestionably proven to have fault.

On the topic of conspiracy theories, I think many people (on either side of the FE debate) feel that if your not "with them your against them," so when you give helpful critiques they get mad. Equally as unhelpful are the people who deny even the possibility of an idea that contradicts their own. Particularly this is seen with parroting of conservation and thermodynamics dogma. Can't the system be "open?" There's no need for "creating" energy when we are surrounded by it.

G4R:

Thank you for your comments and I basically agree with what you said.

Mark:

I am not literally afraid, it's the old cliche that you are more likely to be hit by a car than die in a plane crash.  It's the principle that is important.  How far is the gap between being called a "paid shill" and being in a place in the world where if you don't follow the "right" God, then you have to change your ways or be expelled or even killed.  The gap may seem large, but at the same time the gap is not really that large.  Think Lord of the Flies.

Being called a "paid shill" is akin to being called a child molester as it could be perceived by some people around here.  It's like sitting at a lunch counter in 1954 and someone calls you a n*gger and tells you the lunch counter is off limits to you.  As far as I am concerned there is a connection.

Being called a "paid shill" is a form of intimidation.  The implicit message is "you are not one of us and in fact you are a despicable human being."  It's just plain wrong and it goes against the forum rules and my personal principles.  I can't speak the truth based on my average-to-half-decent knowledge of energy and electronics?  No way!  As long as the forum accepts a plurality of opinion with the goal of understanding various free energy propositions, I do not want to be called a "paid shill" and all that that term implies.

As far as the issue of random acts of unspeakable violence goes, just check out the site LiveLeak if you want.  People can do the most stupid and horrible things, even if they are very rare events.

MileHigh