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Author Topic: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference  (Read 60912 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #135 on: August 10, 2014, 08:03:31 AM »
MarkE, Great, thank you for doing that test. That confirms that phase data for sine waves isn't affected by the coupling setting even when there is a DC offset present, which makes sense for symmetrical waveforms like sine. I wonder if this is generally true though or if it is only true for sine or other vertically symmetrical waveforms.

Do you have a delay line or some other way to delay a signal from the FG by 3 microseconds? I think Alek's Honeywell Hall-effect based current monitor has an unavoidable 3 us delay built in due to the ADC conversion circuitry.
Short of wiring up a PLL, I do not have a convenient way to make a 3us phase delay.  It would take about 700m of coax to do that as a delay line.   If I can get over to Steve's in the next couple of days, he has a deep memory scope that can skew the channels rather arbitrarily.  All that is going to show is something similar to the 10Hz waveform.  We would have to rig up some inductors to get out to 75 degrees or so, and if the idea is to deliver multiple Watts, we would need to set-up a power amp.

My handy calculator states:  3kHz = 333us/interval  3us/333us*360 = 3.24 degrees phase shift.  That's enough to screw-up the free power measurements:  COS(74.76)/COS(78) = 1.27, which is in the ball park of Bill Alek's 1.35:1 over unity calculation in the video.  Throw in another degree or two of jitter and offset, and his OU evaporates.

Sloppy measurements, plus poor assumptions, and extraordinary conclusions usually spells incompetence.

If you want to form an opinion on Bill Alek's intentions, dig up recordings of his Dr. Whodini internet radio programs.   I have a copy of an old one where he interviewed Mark Goldes.  Bill Alek is as far as I can tell a deluded true believer in a number of foolish ideas that are at best without evidence, and at worst completely refuted.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2014, 09:02:45 AM »
Wait.... Bill Alek interviews Mark Goldes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJc4I6pivqg

1.27 vs 1.35 leaves only a six percent "error"  just taking into account the phase shift introduced by the current monitor. This is certainly of the same order as the precision of the measurements themselves. In short, unless other data comes in, taking into account the systematic 3 degree phase shift caused by the probable 3 us delay in the current waveform... I'd say that the "OU" disappears into the error bars, lost in the noise floor.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2014, 10:07:23 AM »
Wait.... Bill Alek interviews Mark Goldes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJc4I6pivqg

1.27 vs 1.35 leaves only a six percent "error"  just taking into account the phase shift introduced by the current monitor. This is certainly of the same order as the precision of the measurements themselves. In short, unless other data comes in, taking into account the systematic 3 degree phase shift caused by the probable 3 us delay in the current waveform... I'd say that the "OU" disappears into the error bars, lost in the noise floor.
That is a point I made several posts back.  It is important to understand what numbers mean rather than just blindly punching into a calculator.  Bill Alek showed phase shift value readings on his 105B varying from 73 to 81  degrees.  That is over and above the 3us reported in the Honeywell data sheet.  His 102 degrees measurement suggests phase error well in excess of 12 degrees. 

Bill Alek has walked himself out onto a short plank by promising free energy machines that he is not in a position to deliver.  Very shortly now the litany of excuses will dribble out as the months go by and he is unable to cut the power cord.


Here is a link to his Mark Goldes interview from almost six years ago:
http://intalek.com/AV/VNN/ProgressiveTechnologyHour/11-22-2008-Technology.mp3.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2014, 10:07:23 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #138 on: August 10, 2014, 07:53:42 PM »
Those resistors probably have a fair bit of inductance as well. This one reads 109 uH on my meter it's a 10 Ohm resistor.

The adjustment tap is set at 58 uH which is what a globe I measured read so I might test to see if I get similar results from
powering it with the same frequency AC.

..

Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #139 on: August 10, 2014, 09:09:01 PM »
100uH is in the ballpark but it is just a tiny fraction of the stated winding inductance which is: 102mH * 2.  At 3kHz, the winding reactance is about 3.8K Ohms total while the resistor is only about 1.9 Ohms.   The secondary resistances were listed at 15 and 19 Ohms totaling 34 Ohms.  When the secondary is shorted, the Q is a little over 100, meaning that the phase angle should be around 89.5 degrees.  Bill Alek measured an unphysical 102 degrees.  His conclusion was that he has unphysical results:  Passive components that generate net energy.  He has not stated anything that he has done to validate that extraordinary conclusion, such as check his measurements by alternate means, self-loop (which will be required of his promised products), etc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #139 on: August 10, 2014, 09:09:01 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #140 on: August 10, 2014, 09:56:58 PM »
Here's better than that. I can get those measurements as well.

The first shot is the output coil voltage, current and power feeding the resistor and the second shot is the resistor voltage, current and power connected to the output coil.

..

Offline MarkE

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #141 on: August 10, 2014, 10:08:51 PM »
It's a miracle!!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #141 on: August 10, 2014, 10:08:51 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #142 on: August 10, 2014, 11:08:52 PM »
So, everyone should now "Gofund" Farmhand then?

Sounds good to me.

Bill

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #143 on: August 10, 2014, 11:19:01 PM »
It's a miracle!!!
Hehehe, Nah, ya just gotta use the scope all funny and hold ya mouth just right.  :)

I think I inverted a phase to get that funny reading, I think when it says ie. 130 degrees then it actually means 180 degrees minus
130 degrees so 50 degrees. Not sure, I'm tired, but one thing is for sure the input was 12.7 volts at .3 Amp DC.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #143 on: August 10, 2014, 11:19:01 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #144 on: August 11, 2014, 04:18:14 AM »
Your scope is doing a good job of computing the phase angle from the input data. Second and third quadrants have always confused me, too. Lag? Lead? Grr.

Anyway, the "Phase B" measurement is the same as what I get by manually computing from the zero-crossings. Nice work!

Offline Thaelin

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #145 on: August 18, 2014, 02:12:28 PM »
   Well, guess there goes my old foggie scooter with the built in charger.

Was supposed to be at the demo but job went 6 days and nulled that.
Kinda wanted to at least see it and meet the guy. Had high hopes here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #145 on: August 18, 2014, 02:12:28 PM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #146 on: August 18, 2014, 06:36:41 PM »
Reading the above comments, I can't help but doubt the OU claims. For the sake of fairness, I've pulled together some quotes from the presenter.
My question is: are the principles he elaborates valid despite the disputable measurements:

"The general geometry of this transformer is very different than a traditional transformer, because what we have is a primary coil wrapped around two cores. And really, we have that same type of architecture in a standard transformer...'cause what you do in a standard transformer is that you have the material going down the centre of this coil. So really, you're splitting the flux two ways, and that's what we're doing here - splitting the input flux two ways."

"The difference is that we have these two output coils that are wired in such a way that it has a bifilar configuration. ... where the output sets up opposing magnetic forces into this [secondary core] material... There's two configurations available [for the secondary]... You can wire the output in series or in parallel; in this case they're wired in series... the ratio ...is about 20 turns here [primary] and 120 turns for each secondary. So we're actually stepping up the voltage. ... They're just single wound [secondary] coils set up in an opposing configuration."

"And what that does to the behaviouur of these coils is that they lower the natural impedance on these cores, driving it overunity, where normally, you wouldn't see that on an output coil here. ...You'd see a fixed output impedance on the secondary here. But when this operates, the behavior is quite different because we have this cancellation going on, lowering the impedance on this [secondary] coils."

 In response to a question about the opposing wound secondary coils, he calls this " a key feature with building overunity devices, because we're lowering the impedance on these coils. ... There's something going on; another force involved."

 Some notes:
 - running the transformer at 3200 cycles per second for best performance
 - input side highly reactive compared to regular transformers.
- shorting the output coils shifts the phase angle to 102 deg

 More quotes:
"We're dealing with some sort of source that's all around us here, some sort of a negative energy and that's what's pushing this wave form beyond 90 degrees. there's another force at play here; this other force acts like a negative electromagnetic force; that's what's acting on the current, pushing it beyond 90 degrees."

Bob

Edit:
Please consider this as well:
Quote
I have build the same Bifilar coil into a Tesla Transformer- air core, The effects me and my cousin have seen is when there is load on the secondary coils the Transformer seems to boost its performance and not affected in the so called counter induction. So we tried to add more coils in the Transformer, we have accidentally stumble on it the other secondary is powering a load of bulb with full brightness, accidentally Short circuit the new other Secondary coils that result into a boost of brightness on the bulb being load on the other secondary.

We have tried to make more shorted Bifilar secondary coils on this Transformer it seems to boost its performance with out demanding more power from the input source.
Source:  http://www.overunity.com/13460/teslas-coil-for-electro-magnets/msg409465/#msg409465

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #147 on: August 18, 2014, 08:27:34 PM »
Bob, you should check out my last few posts in the QEG thread. I can show similar or better results. But is it really OU ? My input is
DC and the lamp is lit up pretty bright for a fluro as compared to the grid powered ones, and the lamp showed the negative
resistance of increasing current till strike when the voltage dropped and the current reduced and stabilized so it started as a fluro
does with a semi resonant starter for grid powered fluorescent Lamps I think..
I guess a lot of messing about might tell for sure, but I won't bet on it.

Cheers

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #148 on: August 19, 2014, 10:56:26 AM »
Reading the above comments, I can't help but doubt the OU claims. For the sake of fairness, I've pulled together some quotes from the presenter.
My question is: are the principles he elaborates valid despite the disputable measurements:
Mostly no.
Quote

"The general geometry of this transformer is very different than a traditional transformer, because what we have is a primary coil wrapped around two cores. And really, we have that same type of architecture in a standard transformer...'cause what you do in a standard transformer is that you have the material going down the centre of this coil. So really, you're splitting the flux two ways, and that's what we're doing here - splitting the input flux two ways."
First he says it is different then he says it is the same. How can you lose, with an "explanation" like that?
Quote

"The difference is that we have these two output coils that are wired in such a way that it has a bifilar configuration. ... where the output sets up opposing magnetic forces into this [secondary core] material... There's two configurations available [for the secondary]... You can wire the output in series or in parallel; in this case they're wired in series... the ratio ...is about 20 turns here [primary] and 120 turns for each secondary. So we're actually stepping up the voltage. ... They're just single wound [secondary] coils set up in an opposing configuration."
Here he appears to be switching back and forth. Bifilar? Series or parallel? Aiding or opposing? The description isn't clear. There are interesting things that can be done with phase cancellation in oppositely wound secondary coils. But Alek is using this setup to muddle and confuse, that's all.
Quote

"And what that does to the behaviouur of these coils is that they lower the natural impedance on these cores, driving it overunity, where normally, you wouldn't see that on an output coil here. ...You'd see a fixed output impedance on the secondary here. But when this operates, the behavior is quite different because we have this cancellation going on, lowering the impedance on this [secondary] coils."
The idea of using a winding on a core to vary the saturation level, thus the impedance, thus the inductance of another winding on the core, is an old one and has been used for "amplification" before: Research "Mag Amps", saturable core reactors, the QEG, etc etc. "Driving it overunity"... please. Based on what, the faulty measurements and hand waving? Sure.
Quote

 In response to a question about the opposing wound secondary coils, he calls this " a key feature with building overunity devices, because we're lowering the impedance on these coils. ... There's something going on; another force involved."
He doesn't understand what is happening, therefore overunity. It cracks me up when these people try to tell you how to build overunity devices: A Key Feature, when they can't build them themselves.
Quote

 Some notes:
 - running the transformer at 3200 cycles per second for best performance
 - input side highly reactive compared to regular transformers.
- shorting the output coils shifts the phase angle to 102 deg

- this frequency is chosen to give the _most confirmatory measurements_ in an attempt to bolster Alek's claims.
- No, no valid comparison to "regular transformers" was performed and the statement is false.
- No, the 102 degree "measurement" was selected from a scope display that was unstable and was chosen for its value. It's an invalid "measurement" anyway due to the various factors affecting phase angle that have been discussed elsewhere in this thread. This is called _data selection_ and it is a mortal sin of metrology.
Quote
More quotes:
"We're dealing with some sort of source that's all around us here, some sort of a negative energy and that's what's pushing this wave form beyond 90 degrees. there's another force at play here; this other force acts like a negative electromagnetic force; that's what's acting on the current, pushing it beyond 90 degrees."
Handwaving BS, disproven by proper analysis. Why can simulators do just what his coils do, if there is some "other force" happening? Alek apparently doesn't understand B-H hysteresis or changing permeability by external applied _magnetic_ fields. Or, more likely, he does understand and is relying on being the smartest person in the room-- his contempt for his audience allows him to provide demonstrations with improperly set oscilloscope giving readings from uncalibrated sensors during a confirmatory demonstration, not a true experiment.
Quote
Bob

Edit:
Please consider this as well:

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Auroratek demonstration from Bill Alek at TeslaTech conference
« Reply #149 on: August 20, 2014, 01:51:32 AM »
Thanks for the analysis, TK.
I'd be interested in building this nonetheless to see what it does, likely with ferrite toroids.
Bob

 

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