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Author Topic: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC  (Read 143710 times)

Offline blavatsky

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #225 on: December 04, 2014, 01:28:24 AM »
Has anyone replicated the Meyer / Dingel Resonant electrolysis of  water into hydrogen and oxygen ?

The aquatune generator seems to come close www.aquatune.com

cheers

Richard

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline triffid

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test,just wanted a link back to here.

Offline massive

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #227 on: September 25, 2015, 09:51:46 PM »

Les Banki designed a good circuit .   

the SITh - static induction thyristor , is a normally ON device . Anyone can google it , try RS1600PA40T1 data sheet .
the basic representitive diagram in the report/paper shows the SITh with a diode to trigger the base when the FBT is fully charged and polarised , the diode will be fwd biased in order to switch OFF the thyristor .
That is a GREAT circuit design , the FBT is a functioning part of the switch . It switches itself off !!!!

Its easy enough to google , there are other papers using pulse power supplies , the same technique . they are the next generation power supplies . all computers use SMPS .

over time pulse power supply will be wide spread

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #227 on: September 25, 2015, 09:51:46 PM »
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Offline richardn

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Hi all,

i am quite new to this forum but not new to electrolysis of water.
I investigated several cell constructions for many years and just lining up here again.

When i read stories like that it always reminds me of people inventing the perpetuum mobile -
and its really funny how people rely on this.

You cannot beat physical and chemical laws - one of that is that of Faraday.
This describes exactly how much energy you will have to invest to divide H2O into its elements.
So this numbers here are absolute ridiculos - you would really win energy when this holds true.
All problems of mankind solved!

Great job to the indian researchers!

Offline massive

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I dont think exceeding faraday is even important . monatomic hydrogen isnt supposed to exist but it sure does .

George Wiseman did a thorough research and developement of Yul Browns monatomic welder generators , its all on VHS and DVD circa 1995.

George Wiseman has proof of volume out put that monatomic gas is being produced , because if it isnt proof of monatomic gas , then he is outputting more diatomic gas than faraday allows  ......
so which is the safest answer to lean on ?   

monatomic H isnt suppposed to exist but then science has us believe that +H ion exists ....a lone proton.



theories and hypothesis of men of the 1800s are long over due for the trash can , they are the same men who said flight was impossible!!

today flight is as normal to us , as wigs , snuff boxes and horse crap were to them

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Offline richardn

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Thanks for your opinion, massive.

But imho you put it too easy. If there was proof for the existance of monoatomic hydrogen as gas - and existing for more than milliseconds, it would
be officially announced by scientists.
My opinion is that the "free energy protagonists" (want) to live in a SF-world where they can generate energy for free, i.e. the perpetuum mobile.
That is kind of fantastic and funny to watch but for me its hard to rely on this.

Yes, monoatomic h exists for a very short time when it is transported to the cathode. But it combines nearly at once with other h to h2, as we know it
as a stable gas.
For me it is absolutely impossible, that monoatomic h-gas will exist as free gas and in stable situation.
It may exist in a kind of Plasma condition on very high temperature tough...

Offline massive

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I have no problem with x amount of gas , for x amount of energy , Avogadro etc
I dropped electrolysis in 98 - 99 or so , it is an observation that it is rediculous to repeat the same experiment , you can ONLY get the same result.

George Wiseman draws more gas with his welders , either he is producing nore than faraday OR he is producing monatomic H in the mix .
his experiments and experience back up his claims
people say they replicate his set up BUT they straight away change the construction details to suit them selves
He is clear as glass in his instructions ,that he uses 3/8" between his plates yet everyone wants to make a compact cell and ignore

the series cell itself is a break away because a transformer is discarded , the surface area is multiplied by neutral NON 'live' plates , that in itself is a major step forward but I doubt scientists are going to let that construction make its way into text books

you can NOT teach kids to get rid of transformers .
Innovation at the consumer level spells economic disaster for shareholder concerns

I personally have never seen an electron , proton  , diatomic H or monatomic H molecule but people freely talk about them like its first hand knowledge but we have all been thru the school system and we all regurgitate what has been driven into our heads

If George Wiseman has more gas out put , I think there is very few people who we have experience to counter claim
either he is producing monatomic H OR he is producing more diatomic gas than faraday , theres only 2 options

For me the thing that stands out about the japanese research is the use of a fly back transformer , I have never read of anyone utilising genuine flyback topology , Inductive Energy Storage

The SITh is unavailable to the public , it is not a SCR , they call it Field Controlled Diode.
nor have I heard of Static Induction Transistor

This thread started as "31 x more gas"  then Les Banki changed it to "8 x more gas" , everyone piled onto L Banki , when his figure was/is based on the JAPANESE RESEARCH paper

he took the thread to

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2578.400

.....where they piled onto him  :-\

all he did was provide a relative circuit for people willing to do their own research into the JAPANESE RESEARCH
there was 20 circuit boards freely GIVEN to anyone , who does that ?  do universities do that ? do governments do that ?

theres no way the J researchers are releasing their actual results what ever that may be , on top of that NGK is in no hurray to release SITh on consumers that could make their own technology

the economy is solely based on selling product to consumers for more than it is worth

back to the J circuit / Banki circuit , it is utilising stored energy , no different to a battery .
do I think more energy can be pulled from a pwer supply ?  = N O !

1 simple observation of ALL circuits is , there is more energy out side of a circuit than the energy inside the circuit

once upon a time there was onlythe primary circuit , then some one invented a trans and therefore the secondary circuit , along came valves , electronics and now we have the control circuit, so its normal for everything to have 3 circuits
if anyone wants more energy out of a circuit then the logical step is to open the circuit to out side energy

there is NO laws of physics to say energy can not enter a circuit

petrol is external energy , paid for the entered into a system . diesel , hemp seed oil , cotton seed , alcohol , coal , wood ........
they are ALL external sources of energy added

water added to electrolysisis external to the circuit , the gas released is protons , neutrons and electrons.
a resistive element of the circuit is disintergrating and escaping the circuit , when it is all gone the circuit is open

so there is nothing in physics to say external energy can not enter a circuit
again there is always more energy out side of a circuit then there is IN the circuit
the circuit itself is constructed from resources directly from the environment .......which is external from the work bench

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Offline richardn

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #232 on: November 03, 2015, 10:25:39 AM »
Hi massive,

thanks for your complex answer - i am not sure if i got the final point tough.
What exactly do you mean when you say "there is more energy outside the circuit than inside"?
Do you mean there is a kind of magic that external energy enters the circuit to take part in the electrolysis?

I tend to believe what scientists have stated for many years and prooven by experiments over and over
unless there is really strict evidence for the opposite. Every real scientist would be happy to find the perpetuum mobile
and would surely be a candidate for the nobel price!
So - if there was only the slightest chance of holding true this would have attracted all scientists to proof it!

Where can you read about the original findings from wiseman?
Can you make absolutely sure there was no mistake in measuremet or other experiment conditions?


Offline massive

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #233 on: November 03, 2015, 07:57:52 PM »
Hi
lets say Ive got a traditional 2 plate electrolysis set up in front of me , 12v DC , x amount of amperage = out put means nothing in this example

at any given moment on this planet there is a lightning strike , according to science , 100 per second

my table top experiments input and output compared to 1 lightning strike is absolute miniscule.

on every surface around the house there is static electrons.

When I mean out side energy Im only talking about electrons . those electrons are no different than the ones powering the fridge , the light , the TV , the car or what ever, except they are unexcited and external to the circuit.

now with the Electrolysis set up , I have 12V DC and x amount of amperage through traditional 2 plates , lets be honest about it ..... THAT is the amount of energy I have to work with . the circuit is closed and the set up has to use what is available...and THAT is whats available.....as far as I can see .

the series cell has been around for 40 years and DC pulsing is not straight DC , so what behavior happens to molecules under pulsing has not been written in the school books , I certainly was never aware of this type of thing before I saw a vhs(!) of g wiseman in 1998(!)

Why hasnt science mentioned the modernization of electrolysis???   there has been a modification where neutral plates have been added AND they work , surely that is worthy of adding to the science books.
that alone is major....... NEUTRAL PLATES  ???

Georeg Wiseman has sent out for independent tests
http://www.eagle-research.com/
GW doesnt frequent forums , so you wont find alot on these type of forums , his name is hardly mentioned 

"permetuum mobile"  is some thing that gets me ...... it is a phrase/quote from the 1800s but is still used in 2015 . (where and who did it originate?)
a hydraulic water ram requires zero input but it has continual out put , people go on about efficiency and c.o.p of machines but theres a man made machine that will run continuously .....is it a perpetual motion machine?
to see one in person they are fantastic to watch and unforgettable , apparently they were widely used in the NY / east area way back when
In UK theres a company still going thats been in bussiness for over 200 years making them . not bad
http://www.greenandcarter.com/main/products.htm


a wind turbine generates 2 things = electrical power and money
it will generate both as long as there are consumers and payment methods in place.
in this case , wind is the out side energy , is the force of the wind greater than the energy in the circuit ? 

again a lightning strike has more electrons than the electrons in the circuit

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #233 on: November 03, 2015, 07:57:52 PM »
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Offline richardn

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #234 on: November 03, 2015, 10:08:49 PM »
o.k. - and what does that proof?

A ligthning strike has a lot of energy (volts and amps) for a very short time.
If you could save all that energy it really wouldnt last very long when you supply a little village.

But unfortunately this "free" energy doesn't enter your circuits as you would like it :-)

Unless you build special machines to collect it (PV-energy, wind energy, water energy,....)
Is that what you are talking about?

But still, this doesn't have to do anything with faraday's and others electro-chemical laws...

Offline massive

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #235 on: November 04, 2015, 12:26:33 AM »
Hi
there is more electrons out side of the circuit than could possible fit in ANY circuit .  lightning strikes destroy cables , transformers , sub stations and anything else in its way .
a conductor/ cable can only carry x amount of current before it melts
 
there is no commercial collection of lightning so there is no scientific support or favoritism for harnessing lightning .  scientists go where the money is , NO ONE hires scientists other than industry other wise they are dead weight and jobless.

the power running into everyones house only has x amount of energy per cycle .
Ive read plenty of times where lightning only has a small amount of energy for a brief amount of time but then the comparison isnt made when the continuous strikes are approx 100 times per second.......so a small villiage would have quite a sufficient power supply at that rate  .
the small villiage where ever that may be , seems to always get a mention

Joule discharge of STORED energy
http://www.niell.org/exploding.html

I havent mentioned "free energy" any where but it is a fact , electrons out side the circuit are free for the taking IF a circuit is designed .
we dont live in an economy that can survive by people collecting free electrons out side of the circuit
its not economically viable . that is the opposite of economy .
an economy is when you sell something for more than its worth
how does one sell something thats freely available ?

the basis of faraday is the PS is the source of electrons and those electrons are used up , I have no problem with that , like I said theres 12 v DC and x amount of amperage

do I expect more from that circuit ? ^^^^  of course not , that doesnt make sense
 
do I beleive circuits can be made to collect electrons from out side the circuit and utilise those electrons ?  absolutely!! 
earth is the largest diameter conductor we have access to, it is also the source of all our , conductors ,semi conductors and non conductors . every electrical component ever manufactured could have stamped on it
                                                 
                                                         "made on earth , from earth"

its 2015 and technology is firmly based on 1800s construction . DC motors and generators , AC motors and alternators are archaic and if anything have proven themselves as inefficient dinosaurs BUT they do not make themselves , its the industry that is not evolving

what evolution has taken place ?   nothing

 the late 1800s the majoity of cars in USA were DC electric , by far out numbering combustion engines.
2015 and we're heading back there , IF the same OLD industry has enough control to make it happen

as for faraday and avogadro etc Ive never had a problem with it , I dont know why people get carried away over it , its only quantity
its people like G Wiseman that end up with more gas that becomes un-explainable , either he is making monatomic H ....OR he is exceeding the faraday quantity
exceeding faraday causes theoretical problems , so its alot safer to consider monatomic production .
pulsing electrolysis is not covered by the text books , why not ?
its not like people are not using pulsing because they are , and they show no signs of stopping

I dont think theres energy entering the circuit , if there is , its on some level that simply is not written in the text book

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #235 on: November 04, 2015, 12:26:33 AM »
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Offline Bttr2brnout

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #236 on: November 10, 2015, 08:03:47 PM »
Hi all, Another Newb here. New to the board but not to electrolysis.
 Found this board by searching " Stanley Meyer electrolysis". Which is an oxymoron as Stanley Meyer had nothing to do with Electrolysis. Stanley Meyer excelled at High Voltage low current molecular disassociation of the water molecule. Which made use of the zero point energy of the oxygen and hydrogen atoms in the water molecule. Which also breaks no laws of physics, nature, or any in Hell Michigan. Which I doubt there are any. You would have to think that anything goes there. I wouldn't mind visiting but I sure wouldn't want to stay.
  Any how, anyone figured out yet how he did it? Doubt if anyone did they would share it on this board. It just amazes me the complexity of the stuff people come up with on this board when Stanley did it with a D.C. Power supply and an alternator. How many millions of hertz you think he got that thing to spin anyway?

Offline sparks

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #237 on: November 15, 2015, 04:02:10 AM »
  The electric field will accelerate electrons.  I would submit that conventional electolysis occurs due to the electric field on the plates surface.  This electric field decreases due to any electrons leaving or entering the plates.  If you look at stan myers work he was first off using the capacitance of the cell in a resonant circuit.  You whack the circuit and let it ring down.  Last thing you want is current flow.  In an ozone cell there is no current flow.  The oxygen injected between the plates experiences an accelerating electric field.  The valence electrons react to the electric field long before the more massive nuclei do. The electrons ionized from the atoms continue to travel towards the anode and crash into it causing thermalization of the metal and reduction in the accelerating field.  This is of little consequence if the duty cycle of the pulse is extremely small as it does not require an outside power scource to pump the electrons back to the other side of the cell to create a maintained field.  The field is established= the gas electrons accelerated. The gas electrons hitting the plate carry a negative charge.  This will of course decrease the accelerating electric field or worse yet the electrons will return to the gas nuclei before the atoms have time to form divalent or trivalent bonds.  So what does one do to maintain the seperation of the electron depleted gas from the electron rich plate?  What electronic component allows the flow of electrons in one direction and not in another?  Could a magnetic field direct the electrons away from the gas?  Could another gas be used to absorb the electrons preferentially over the ionized hydrogen?  Could the electrons be dumped somewhere through something that does work?























Offline massive

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #238 on: November 15, 2015, 10:35:51 PM »
The electric field will accelerate electrons. 

Last thing you want is current flow.

The electrons ionized from the atoms continue to travel towards the anode and crash into it causing
thermalization of the metal and reduction in the accelerating field.

What electronic component allows the flow of electrons in one direction and not in another? 

Could the electrons be dumped somewhere through something that does work?



in the NZ video SM talks of electrons being accellerated as in an electron gun like from a CRT screen , TV or computer monitor as an example
neg charge electrons are attracted to the HV positive charge of the CRT

just as a neg charge thunder cloud repels neg charge electrons in the ground (opposite example)

also the last thing you want is current flow because voltage leads current

he also mentions an imbalance on an atom being brought back to balanced state by "plucking an electron from ground"

I say why not PLUCK EM ALL from ground  ... thru an electronic component that allows the flow of electrons in one direction and not in another = a fast acting Diode

Offline massive

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Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC
« Reply #239 on: December 31, 2015, 08:34:30 AM »


Re: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC


no one has questioned the figure 31

Les Banki recalculated the figure and thats all he did , its all there , it was never a claim of 8 times faraday , it was a recalculation = simple  .
no one bothered to read his documents before dumping on him

there should be 20 of these boards out there , given for FREE , to 20 people , that have the task of experimenting with the nano tech theory .
Les Banki also said , that this is for a 2 plate cell NOT SERIES CELL.
he also said high freq pulsing alone does not produce results , there is not the power.
he designed the circuit for experimental purpose only .
he designed the circuit for experimentors because there is no given circuit with the original document , page 1 of this thread , posted by the owner of this site .
the research document uses a SITh thyristor , Les Banki substituted this normally ON device with a HV mosfet  IXTX20N150 , again for experimental use

curious of any updates or stagnation or procrastination ??

 

 

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