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Author Topic: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC  (Read 146040 times)

Offline MarkE

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Good luck with that.  The paper is so fundamentally flawed that it should have been rejected. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ltseung888

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Speculation:
 
Can electrolysis and DC Pulsing be different mechanisms?  Can the Electron Clouds associated with the elements, molecules or "water particles" be different?
 
Can Browns Gas have different "Electron Clouds" from Hydrogen and Oxygen gases obtained from normal electrolysis?

Offline Les Banki

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Speculation:
 
Can electrolysis and DC Pulsing be different mechanisms?  Can the Electron Clouds associated with the elements, molecules or "water particles" be different?
 
Can Browns Gas have different "Electron Clouds" from Hydrogen and Oxygen gases obtained from normal electrolysis?

Lawrence,

You are also a member of the OUR Forum.

May I suggest that you leave this Forum/thread which has been allowed to be over-run by professional saboteurs
and join the technical discussion at OUR Forum, in the thread I started:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2578.msg41130;topicseen#msg41130

May I add that what you call "speculation" are in fact REALITY, which many have discovered long ago!!

Cheers,
Les Banki





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Offline MarkE

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Lawrence,

You are also a member of the OUR Forum.

May I suggest that you leave this Forum/thread which has been allowed to be over-run by professional saboteurs
and join the technical discussion at OUR Forum, in the thread I started:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2578.msg41130;topicseen#msg41130

May I add that what you call "speculation" are in fact REALITY, which many have discovered long ago!!

Cheers,
Les Banki
Les, please don't descend into silliness.  Evidence stands on its own.  Show a repeatable method of electrolyzing water at better than Faraday efficiency and you stand to make enormous amounts of money.   People with extraordinary claims cloister themselves when they lack evidence that supports those claims.

Offline Marshallin

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Guys ... i wanted post here so update about my experimets, but after i read last few pages i realized that it will have no affect.

Noone will care here about trying and testing. Looks like noone perform any real test in few months. Looks like you just hunting for bigest post count with theoretical chick chat.
Why you even spent your time here guys? You all waiting until someone build and test everythnig for you?

I am really disappointed, but is my stupidity that i expected anything more then this.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

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Offline MarkE

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Experiments are always good for something.  If you are predisposed that experiments must lead to only one conclusion then no there isn't much point. If you are open to letting the data tell the story, then experiments may: tell you something new, or show you various ways of getting bad data, or just reinforce the status quo.

Offline sparks

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  In electrolysis at the cathode the water molecule gets an electron from the external voltage supply.  This electron takes the place of the shared electron of one of the hydrogen atoms.  This yields h gas (monatomic) plus oh-aq.   Monatomic hydrogen is highly reactive due to electron pairing.  What happens is that a neighboring water molecule picks up the h and forms an ionic bond becoming h30+.   The monatomic h can also form a covalent bond with another h (again due to electron pairing) and you get h2gas.   The oh-ion will migrate through the solution until it gets to the anode.  There it gives up an electron to the external circuit to form monatomic oxygen plus monatomic hydrogen.  Oxygen forms covalent bonds with other oxygen atoms to form oxygen gas.  The hydrogen formed at the anode is monatomic and as stated before highly reactive forming water hydroxide and hydronium.  All these reactions compete with the formation of hydrogen gas and you get the faraday efficiency.  A lot of work has been done to form catalyst and membrane technology to favor the formation of oxygen and hydrogen over the aqueous ions as well as high temperature electrolysis. 
  The claimed efficiency in this paper is because they are pulsing the electrodes.  The electrons are not being sourced and extracted.   They are being sourced by the atoms in the dielectric.  The high potential external field is probably established using the reaction vessel as a capacitor in a tank circuit that rings down.  The work function of the electrodes increases with frequency so at higher frequencies no electrons are emitted or absorbed by the metal.  They remain in the metal at high density on the negatively charged plate and low density on the positively charged plate.  This permeates the liquid with an electric field.  The electrons normally pumped by the external power supply are coming from the water itself.  Ionization occurs as the electrons from one molecule collide with electrons of other molecules.  The rf currents these people were using is really high and result in all the inefficiencies involved with rf radiation of energy from the system.  Lower frequency using plates with a thin passivated layer deposited on them would allow the lc tank to operate at lower frequency and higher voltage across the water cap.  This is all endothermic.  The  electrons don't want to get squeezed into the negative plate or leave the positive plate.  If the voltage and current are totally out of phase the input power becomes apparent power which allows for very high voltage to develop across the capacitor with a q dependent on the inductor saturation parameters.  You could have 3000 volts across the capacitor and 20amps on the inductor buss.  This would be a kva of 60kva.  The power factor of course would be infinitely low at 90 degrees out.  But still some punch through the electronic fog.

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Offline MarkE

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  In electrolysis at the cathode the water molecule gets an electron from the external voltage supply.  This electron takes the place of the shared electron of one of the hydrogen atoms.  This yields h gas (monatomic) plus oh-aq.   Monatomic hydrogen is highly reactive due to electron pairing.  What happens is that a neighboring water molecule picks up the h and forms an ionic bond becoming h30+.   The monatomic h can also form a covalent bond with another h (again due to electron pairing) and you get h2gas.   The oh-ion will migrate through the solution until it gets to the anode.  There it gives up an electron to the external circuit to form monatomic oxygen plus monatomic hydrogen.  Oxygen forms covalent bonds with other oxygen atoms to form oxygen gas.  The hydrogen formed at the anode is monatomic and as stated before highly reactive forming water hydroxide and hydronium.  All these reactions compete with the formation of hydrogen gas and you get the faraday efficiency.  A lot of work has been done to form catalyst and membrane technology to favor the formation of oxygen and hydrogen over the aqueous ions as well as high temperature electrolysis. 
Let's stipulate at least for the moment that all of that is true.
Quote

  The claimed efficiency in this paper is because they are pulsing the electrodes.  The electrons are not being sourced and extracted.   They are being sourced by the atoms in the dielectric.  The high potential external field is probably established using the reaction vessel as a capacitor in a tank circuit that rings down.  The work function of the electrodes increases with frequency so at higher frequencies no electrons are emitted or absorbed by the metal.  They remain in the metal at high density on the negatively charged plate and low density on the positively charged plate.  This permeates the liquid with an electric field.  The electrons normally pumped by the external power supply are coming from the water itself.  Ionization occurs as the electrons from one molecule collide with electrons of other molecules.  The rf currents these people were using is really high and result in all the inefficiencies involved with rf radiation of energy from the system.  Lower frequency using plates with a thin passivated layer deposited on them would allow the lc tank to operate at lower frequency and higher voltage across the water cap.  This is all endothermic.  The  electrons don't want to get squeezed into the negative plate or leave the positive plate.  If the voltage and current are totally out of phase the input power becomes apparent power which allows for very high voltage to develop across the capacitor with a q dependent on the inductor saturation parameters.  You could have 3000 volts across the capacitor and 20amps on the inductor buss.  This would be a kva of 60kva.  The power factor of course would be infinitely low at 90 degrees out.  But still some punch through the electronic fog.
I order to form H2 and O2 gas one still has to break the bonds in the water molecule either all at once which would be an interesting trick, or by stripping one H atom first which gets you pretty much back to the original process.

The Indian paper has massive flaws that strongly suggest metrology error.  Additionally, their results are contradicted by the 2005 Japanese effort that they largely copied.  A contradicted, extraordinary result obtained on the basis of metrology that as reported was all screwed up is just junk.  If any of the sponsoring parties took the research seriously they would very likely be spending the time and money to do the experiments properly with well controlled metrology.

Offline Les Banki

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  • Posts: 82
Guys ... i wanted post here so update about my experimets, but after i read last few pages i realized that it will have no affect.

Noone will care here about trying and testing. Looks like noone perform any real test in few months. Looks like you just hunting for bigest post count with theoretical chick chat.
Why you even spent your time here guys? You all waiting until someone build and test everythnig for you?

I am really disappointed, but is my stupidity that i expected anything more then this.

Well, you are now experiencing it.  I told you so.
Both here and in private.

I am sure you have already discovered that I am publishing technical stuff elsewhere, where SABOTEURS are only allowed to READ!

ALL readers here SHOULD be aware of the following:

MarkE IS a professional SABOTEUR who has been allowed to over-run not only THIS thread but virtually the entire Forum!

He joined this Forum only 228 days ago and has managed to spew fort 3228 posts of dripping negativity CRAP!

That translates to 14.15 posts per DAY.


Would ANY of you reading this have time to do that?
If you could, WHAT would be your REASON??
One could ask: WHAT's in in for you to make that many posts?????

Would any of you do this for "free"????  All day, every day???  Averaging 14 posts a day.....!?

Do you remember the NAME of this Forum?
Just to remind you:  OVERUNITY.com

Cheers,
Les Banki

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MarkE

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Well, you are now experiencing it.  I told you so.
Both here and in private.

I am sure you have already discovered that I am publishing technical stuff elsewhere, where SABOTEURS are only allowed to READ!

ALL readers here SHOULD be aware of the following:

MarkE IS a professional SABOTEUR who has been allowed to over-run not only THIS thread but virtually the entire Forum!

He joined this Forum only 228 days ago and has managed to spew fort 3228 posts of dripping negativity CRAP!

That translates to 14.15 posts per DAY.


Would ANY of you reading this have time to do that?
If you could, WHAT would be your REASON??
One could ask: WHAT's in in for you to make that many posts?????

Would any of you do this for "free"????  All day, every day???  Averaging 14 posts a day.....!?

Do you remember the NAME of this Forum?
Just to remind you:  OVERUNITY.com

Cheers,
Les Banki
Let's recap:  You don't have a working unit.  You can't point to a working unit, but you say the problem is me.  So, let me ask you:

Prior to when I posted here, about how many free energy devices discussed here were proven to work?
About how long a period of time did that occur over?
And since I came here about eight months ago, how many free energy devices discussed here have been proven to work?
How has the rate of proven free energy device per month changed since I began posting here?

Offline ARMCORTEX

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I would like to join this overunity research.com small forum.

Not to discuss hydrogen, but my various mechanical mechanisms

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline SeaMonkey

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Quote from: MarkE
Let's recap:  You don't have a working unit.  You can't point to a working unit, but you say the problem is me.  So, let me ask you:

Prior to when I posted here, about how many free energy devices discussed here were proven to work?
About how long a period of time did that occur over?
And since I came here about eight months ago, how many free energy devices discussed here have been proven to work?
How has the rate of proven free energy device per month changed since I began posting here?


It is true that nearly every device discussed here
is incapable of the much sought after "free energy"
or "overunity."  The discussion is for the most part
just echo chamber "noise" or evidence of adrenalin
stimulation.

There are, however, certain processes which are presently
in use which "establishment science" is unaware or has
been convinced are fraudulent or impossible.

Not all who have knowledge of such processes are able
to reveal "proof" for security reasons, or are simply
unwilling to cast their "pearls" before swine.

Water is a remarkable substance;  simple in its makeup but
very complex in its properties.  While it is not yet time for
you to comprehend or be made aware of some of those
properties relative to this topic, in due time you will be.
Providing, you are prepared to step outside the box.

Conducting your own experiments could open that doorway.

Offline MarkE

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It is true that nearly every device discussed here
is incapable of the much sought after "free energy"
or "overunity."  The discussion is for the most part
just echo chamber "noise" or evidence of adrenalin
stimulation.

There are, however, certain processes which are presently
in use which "establishment science" is unaware or has
been convinced are fraudulent or impossible.

Not all who have knowledge of such processes are able
to reveal "proof" for security reasons, or are simply
unwilling to cast their "pearls" before swine.

The standing contradiction of course is that a number of people choose to proclaim that one thing or another is OU, but fail to produce supporting evidence.  If they had security concerns it is very odd that they would expose themselves by making the claim without protecting themselves by supplying the evidence.  Once the secret's out, silencing someone can't retroactively make what's been exposed a secret once more.
Quote

Water is a remarkable substance;  simple in its makeup but
very complex in its properties.  While it is not yet time for
you to comprehend or be made aware of some of those
properties relative to this topic, in due time you will be.
Providing, you are prepared to step outside the box.

Conducting your own experiments could open that doorway.
This last bit is the same sort of pitch made by cults and con men for centuries:  "Behind the curtain is some wonderful truth. Only the worthy faithful get to see the wonderful truth." 

Offline SeaMonkey

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Quote from: MarkE
The standing contradiction of course is that a number of people choose to proclaim that one thing or another is OU, but fail to produce supporting evidence.  If they had security concerns it is very odd that they would expose themselves by making the claim without protecting themselves by supplying the evidence.  Once the secret's out, silencing someone can't retroactively make what's been exposed a secret once more.

This last bit is the same sort of pitch made by cults and con men for centuries:  "Behind the curtain is some wonderful truth. Only the worthy faithful get to see the wonderful truth."

The 'last bit' is quite true as many will attest to.

Every goal in life which requires effort, study,
work, observation and ingenuity will not be
attainable by all.  Only those who are willing
to 'git 'er done' will succeed.

Only the "worthy faithful" have ever accomplished
their dreams.  Those who struggle through life
demanding spoon feeding or some other shortcut
to success which requires little effort will find
disappointment.

Again, the "secret" is out and has been for quite
some time.  Not in every detail, of course, but
sufficient to get those with gumption headed
in the right direction.  With determined effort
and attention to detail they will find their way.

Those who are looking for an effortless ride will
remain standing at the side of the road with their
thumbs out.

Offline MarkE

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The 'last bit' is quite true as many will attest to.

Every goal in life which requires effort, study,
work, observation and ingenuity will not be
attainable by all.  Only those who are willing
to 'git 'er done' will succeed.

Only the "worthy faithful" have ever accomplished
their dreams.  Those who struggle through life
demanding spoon feeding or some other shortcut
to success which requires little effort will find
disappointment.

Again, the "secret" is out and has been for quite
some time.  Not in every detail, of course, but
sufficient to get those with gumption headed
in the right direction.  With determined effort
and attention to detail they will find their way.

Those who are looking for an effortless ride will
remain standing at the side of the road with their
thumbs out.
If the "secret is out" then you most certainly can point to successful implementations of it.   Oh, but of course, that must all remain behind the curtain, mustn't it?  The refrain will go on:  "It's here, right behind this curtain.  You just have to believe.  And, oh there is a little fee, or donation ..."

 

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