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New Battery systems => Crystal batteries => Topic started by: d3x0r on July 22, 2014, 12:45:22 PM

Title: Karpen Pile
Post by: d3x0r on July 22, 2014, 12:45:22 PM
Move to this thread... http://www.overunity.com/10208/perpetual-batteries-from-vasilescu-karpen/

Message content moved to: http://www.overunity.com/10208/perpetual-batteries-from-vasilescu-karpen/msg410879/#msg410879
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: MarkE on July 22, 2014, 12:58:21 PM
At uA currents it could take a very, very long time to consume your anode.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: d3x0r on July 22, 2014, 12:59:37 PM
At uA currents it could take a very, very long time to consume your anode.
Not really; the magnesium/copper crystal cell I made ate the magnesium strip in a 2 months
You replied before I could finish my move to http://www.overunity.com/10208/perpetual-batteries-from-vasilescu-karpen/msg410879/#msg410879 :)
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: MarkE on July 22, 2014, 02:46:54 PM
Not really; the magnesium/copper crystal cell I made ate the magnesium strip in a 2 months
You replied before I could finish my move to http://www.overunity.com/10208/perpetual-batteries-from-vasilescu-karpen/msg410879/#msg410879 :)
Self-discharge of your typical AA alkaline cell is in the 10uA regime and they will still hold 80% capacity after 7-10 years.  Maybe the electrolyte was attacking your magnesium.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: d3x0r on July 22, 2014, 02:49:29 PM
Self-discharge of your typical AA alkaline cell is in the 10uA regime and they will still hold 80% capacity after 7-10 years.  Maybe the electrolyte was attacking your magnesium.
:) it definatly was... epson salt, potassion chloride


the same test using 2AAA batteries lasted 2+ years (instead of 2 months)

Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: MarkE on July 22, 2014, 03:55:04 PM
What was the test set-up?
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: d3x0r on July 22, 2014, 04:00:17 PM
What was the test set-up?
Well; was a slight difference... 100ohm resistor in series with a 1.5V red LED.  1 AAA did not light the LED so I used 2 in series... set on top of my refidgerator in the same place.  without a resistor the 2 AAA burned out the LED... but across a 100 ohm resistor 1 AAA battery reads 1.4V ( which is 14mA which is way more than the crystal cell would generate so the battery with a resistor was brighter)
The other was a single Mg-Cu cell with just the red LED (no resistor) ... using epson salt/postassium chloride(salt substitute)... and water; had to add a couple drops of water after a month, but after the second month adding water didn't help, and attempting to dissect it failed... also used silicon dioxide (radiator sealer) to line the copper, but it wasn't the copper that deteriorated.  (john hutchison cells mostly).  Others had longer lasting cells, bu they used a rod of magnesium used for starting camp fires...




For cost effectivness, a pack of batteries from the store was way more cost effective, even considering using gas to go to the store :)
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: MarkE on July 22, 2014, 09:13:50 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: d3x0r on July 23, 2014, 04:06:12 AM
I should make a correction, coating wasn't silicon dioxide; it was sodium silicate
http://www.amazon.com/Magic-1008-Liquid-Metallic-Seal-Up/dp/B002UJ4WS0
If it sits, the copper falls out of the solution and sits on the bottom, leaving the 'liquid glass' at the top
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: Neo-X on July 23, 2014, 09:59:02 AM
This battery reminds me of the diode array, they both convert ambient heat to electricity.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: MarkE on July 23, 2014, 11:49:22 AM
This battery reminds me of the diode array, they both convert ambient heat to electricity.
Diode arrays do not convert ambient heat to electricity for the reasons shown by Dr. Brillioun some 55 years ago.  Pick a diode of your choosing, even an idealized theoretical one.  Then pick a resistor of your choosing to be your thermal energy source.  Decide which side of the diode you want to connect that resistor to.  Then pick another resistor of your choosing to connect to the other side of the diode.  Now in order to make current flow, connect the two free ends of the resistors together.  Show how the orientation of the diode discriminates energy flow from your source side to your load side.  Show that if you turn the diode around net average energy transfers the other way.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: casstete on June 18, 2015, 10:39:59 PM
This post should not be called Karpen Pile as it's all about crystal cells .

Karpen cells are simple .

To best illustrate take the high concentrated  Sulfuric Acid with Gold & Platinum An-Cathode .

Whats happening on the surfaces ?

DO WE HAVE GALVANIC REACTIONS ?


 ... there is NO LOSS OF MASS in this energy transfer  :-*

""
Formation of oxidized surface films at a gold electrode in sulfuric acid medium during anodization was studied using the electro‐chemical quartz crystal microbalance (EQCM) technique. The oxidation process consists of two single‐electron steps. Forming a surface Formula species from adsorbed water is the first step. Generating a surface Formula species from the Formula species is the second step. The second step is accompanied by a concerted place exchange reaction involving the surface Formula species and gold atoms below the surface, and rehydration of the gold surface. The reduction of the surface retraces the oxidation processes. During the faradaic processes, sulfate species are adsorbing on (or desorbing from) the gold surface, but produce no detectible mass change
""

This has been studied .. these oxidized surfaces films are crystal latices forming... my guess increasing potential after time .

This is also what Bedini understood and why his cells are good ... but naturally you want some circuit behind it to work with it like the SSG or maybe Captret .

So this is Karpen in a Nutshell ( I could be wrong )

You want a reactive substance ( it also works with dry crystals compressed as you know ) and a NON reactive material .

Then same  materials of different quality or 2 different materials in Sodim Carbonate ( as stated in part 3 of his patent ) .

I've seen in my sodium Carb Batteries with Copper and galvanised nails , Silver worked best for Anode and better quality galvanised nail for cathode .

Surface is the key and surely there is a ratio to consider .

Now copper has similar reaction in sodium carb as Gold has in Sulfuric , it also creates crystals as shown in this 1940 document on fire extinguishers .

http://libinfo.uark.edu/aas/issues/1941v1/v1a21.pdf

also shown in experimental science & research http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jp981069k

and here http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/10.1179/000705972798322702

Obviously you can accelerate this natural process which I believe is down to a simple Biotransmutation effect endorsed by the Voltage created by the Karpen effect described in my words above . They all doing it , Bedini , Hutchinson and Reed .

So that the actual reactions are taking place in the crystal films not the material .

THATS WHY .... surface matters in real NON galvanic Karpen cells ... and thats also confirmed by Bedini .

The mass doesn't EVER change , because it is protected .

Thanks you come again
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: profitis on June 21, 2015, 10:25:04 PM
Casstete'During the
faradaic processes, sulfate species are adsorbing on
(or desorbing from) the gold surface, but produce no
detectible mass change'

Plus o2 species
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: casstete on June 24, 2015, 11:23:23 PM
Yes I saw that , so in your opinion ? I believe there are 2 maybe more potentials in these batteries , the initial galvanic .

First the creation if the film ( crystals ) then the exchange between anode - crystal oxidating film and cathode - crystal .

Within the Crystal structure ( latices ) we then get a reaction with

a: magnetic fields
b : Schuman resonance ( Hutchinson makes reference to the Morray device being similar to his technology .. but search for a video by a Prof Bass .. Rediscovery of Lost Secret of Moray Radiant Energy resonance where he implies this is what they catching and shows maths for it )

c: one could say gravity but that comes with antigravity ... Newtons apple is stupid cause ... how did the apple get there

I believe the oxidation + growth of crystal leading to interaction ( slowing down ) of a wave which we can then harvest . If this is accelerated by electricity ( the growth of latices ) then in theory ( I am trying to test it ) it should just keep going .

I have several dry cells  where the caustic or base elements are "excellent" for energy transfer   Aluminiumsilicates & sodium carbonates .

By coincidence this is what is in a popular dishwasher detergent .

Funny thing is is that Zeolite ( by itself in a vacuum ) has a COP of 160 %

No tricks demonstration unit can be bought online for 2000 +- euro .

So the Zeolite with it's own tunnel structure creates massive surface area .


I got a few batteries i am testing and as far as i can tell both bedini and hutchinson are correct and surely same as  reed claims .

The game is the same , just sealing it is a nice option .

We also have a potention LENR aka Biotransmutation effect that we ca use .

If someone knows chemistry better than I do ... please join inn .

By reduction and oxidation ( H and O2 ) we can actually create a perpetual chemical energy exchange " because " we are harnessing a small natural potential ( nothing is really chemical is this world it's all "universal one " all elements are just manifestations of different energy states and frequencies )

So electricity can create .. H which can induce many of the "first 20 elements in periodic table " to transmutate which again can lead to releasing oxygen which inturn will ....... you get the idea .



Thanks
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: profitis on June 25, 2015, 12:30:32 PM
A whole bunch of potentials all focused into one,magnetic,gravity,chemical,electrical,etc. Almost like a unified field theory attacking all at once.yes the surfaces actually undergo reversible physical change too each time the switch is thrown.then revert back when switch is cut (reconstruction).surface morphology throbs with the votage tensions(nemca effect on workfunctions). As you say a proper so-called 'crystal cell',the ones that are not corrosion-current dominated are too of this nature.all these crystals just acting as solid electrolyte,they all absorb moisture from atmosphere and therefore allow for ion hydration and transportation.the zeolites/silicates a good choice as you say as they allow for better permeation of gases to electrode area of actions.I imagine the gold-platinum couple wouldve worked better for mr karpen if he had used an acid zeolite instead of liquids.

Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: profitis on June 25, 2015, 12:52:08 PM
''I have several dry cells  where the caustic or base elements are "excellent" for energy transfer   Aluminiumsilicates & sodium carbonates .''

Unfortunately corrosion resistance limits one to these alkaline based electrolytes but there are a few metals that resist acid conditions beside platinum/gold eg tantalum,niobium,certain conducting oxides.what are your anodes composed of if I may ask? Becareful if copper.copper is a tricky thing and if too wet or too acid it corrodes allway down sloooowwwllyy(CO2 + water vapour).the thing about slow corrosion is if the cell is exposed to air it will go on corroding a looonnngtime but if perfectly sealed off from atmosphere it can't do this for more than a few days/ months
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: plengo on November 08, 2018, 09:51:29 PM
the thing about slow corrosion is if the cell is exposed to air it will go on corroding a looonnngtime but if perfectly sealed off from atmosphere it can't do this for more than a few days/ months


please elaborate on this last statement. I have cells perfectly sealed inside a transparent epoxy resin. They are running for over 5 years and still going just fine. Very, very, very stable voltage, up to 6 digits.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: profitis on November 09, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
'please elaborate on this last statement. I have
cells perfectly sealed inside a transparent epoxy
resin. They are running for over 5 years and still
going just fine. Very, very, very stable voltage, up
to 6 > > just go buy a lithium.same thing but if u start xtracting frommit...
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: F6FLT on November 10, 2018, 05:18:30 PM
I experimented with Karpen piles a few years ago. An important point of these batteries is that the output voltage must increase with temperature, because the energy is supposed to come from the ambient heat, breaking the second law of thermodynamics.

Most of the documents, except patents, have been published at the French academy of science. I put his work here:
http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/MaxwellDemon/index.php?q=karpen

All is in French except his patent 577.877 (http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/MaxwellDemon/N%20Vasilesco-Karpen%20-%20Pile%20permanente%20(Electrical%20battery)%20-%20FR577087A%20(english).pdf) that I had translated.

I was rather enthusiastic about Karpen's ideas because I didn't see any theoretical flaws (once you accept that the second law can be circumvented). But unfortunately, my tests of heating the solution never showed any increase in voltage.
It is very difficult to conduct unbiased experiments due to oxidation of the electrodes and/or dissolution of the gases in the solution.
Title: Re: Karpen Pile
Post by: F6FLT on November 12, 2018, 01:28:34 PM
A new article that could give Karpen credibility: "A non-equilibrium system as a demon": https://arxiv.org/abs/1811.02453 .
A Maxwell demon could work when we are out of equilibrium conditions (scientists are the first to challenge their own laws). I must admit, it goes over my head. If someone understands, thank you in advance for explaining.