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Author Topic: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos  (Read 1229373 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #435 on: July 22, 2014, 08:15:42 AM »
Tinman,

I am speculating that you will find that the torque that spins your neo in the liquid homopolar motor video is also present in the bubble vortex video.  But, in the bubble vortex video, because the neo is stationary, the torque instead imparts a spin to the electrolyte, producing the observed vortex (A colored marker taped to a dowel and slowly dipped into your tank to approach the neo should allow you to see any spin imparted to the electrolyte).

Also, because the electromagnet has limited current flow through the electrolyte perpendicular to its magnetic axis, little torque is generated with which to stir the electrolyte, hence no vortex.

If this is correct, taping the sides of the neo should reduce the current flow perpendicular to the neo's magnetic axis, reducing or eliminating the torque/electrolyte spin and vortex.

Thanks for taking the time,

PW

This is also what I think.

Gravock

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #436 on: July 22, 2014, 08:25:53 AM »
What i need is a big 2 or 3 inch neo to do these test with-that would look awsome. But as per usual,i cant get one that size here in OZ-all out of stock apparently lol.



How about a 6 inch by 2 inch  NEO????          Every soooooooooo slightly dangerous  ;D

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #437 on: July 22, 2014, 08:34:05 AM »
  But, in the bubble vortex video, because the neo is stationary, the torque instead imparts a spin to the electrolyte, producing the observed vortex (A colored marker taped to a dowel and slowly dipped into your tank to approach the neo should allow you to see any spin imparted to the electrolyte).

Too that would never explain no charge used in nanoparticle suspensions


OR.....
powdered bismuth

nano-film ferrofluid (SEE PIC BELOW)

nor pyrolytic graphite

nor.............

nor..................(my best invention in the past 6 months that I will reveal in the 3rd edition, hopefully, depending on patent seeking potential)


If this is correct, taping the sides of the neo should reduce the current flow perpendicular to the neo's magnetic axis, reducing or eliminating the torque/electrolyte spin and vortex.
PW


Nope, You LIKE MOST PEOPLE keep forgetting (dont know really) that each "SIDE" of every magnet (neo or not) has a CENTRIFUGAL and a CENTRIPETAL vortex (convergent) which = CHARGE VECTOR



You also forget or dont know that magnets (so-called, since they're NOT dominantly magnetic, not ONE BIT, rather dielectric) are CREATED by discharging capacitor banks THRU THE "POLES"

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #438 on: July 22, 2014, 08:39:35 AM »
PW:

I haven't looked at the new clip but I am really feeling what you are saying, it sounds perfect.  When only the tips of the magnet can conduct current into the water, you can visualize the current "blooming" out of each end of the magnet and the "blooming" will be in a very similar direction to the magnetic field.  Hence the magnitude of the cross-product between the current flow and the magnetic field is very low and hence you don't get much of a torque imparted at all on the electrolyte "spaghetti strands."  You are awesome!

Brad, I have to scold you.  For starters, I made a posting that stated that three conditions had to be met for the vortex in the water to get created.  Look at my three conditions and relate that to what PW says and what I say in the above paragraph.  The reason to "scold" you is that you did the experiment and your conclusion was that an electromagnet produces a "different" magnetic field than a magnet.  Yet over the past few years you have looked at countless diagrams of magnets and electromagnets where you see essentially an identical magnetic field pattern produced by both things.  You probably have taken a compass and moved it around a magnet and an electromagnet and observed the same magnetic field pattern.  So how could you even say what you were saying?  It's almost like a couple of years ago when you were a beginner taking your first baby steps and every second or third clip you made you might say that you were demonstrating "something new that that science and engineering does not understand."  Respect.

I stated in an earlier posting that with your experiment you only made an observation and you did not arrive at a conclusion.  Likewise, I think one of Theoria's pitches is that a magnet and an electromagnet are very much different, the "magnetic fields are different because the sources are different" (or something like that) and that is not true.  Both an electromagnet and a magnet make use of exactly the same fundamental mechanism to generate the magnetic field.

In a similar vein, your underwater spinner is being pitched by Theoria and something new, like it's a big deal.  The truth is, you can literally construct that experiment in your head.  You know two things ahead of time, (1) the water will normally spin in a vortex if the magnet is stationary because of the cross product between the magnetic field and the spaghetti tubes of current, and (2) the water is 'sticky' and it is 'stuck' on the surface of the magnet such that the vortex will work on pushing the water and it will also push on the body of the magnet.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  You can crunch those two things in your head before you even do the experiment and conclude that the underwater spinner will indeed spin.  The underwater spinner experiment breaks no new ground at all.

Anyway, you learned something new, and that's the most important part.  But you have to be conservative and stop arriving at conclusions that go against what is already known and well understood.  Your coil vs. electromagnet experiment was simply a "casse tete" and nothing more than that.

MileHigh

Offline picowatt

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #439 on: July 22, 2014, 08:40:12 AM »

Too that would never explain no charge used in nanoparticle suspensions


OR.....
powdered bismuth

nano-film ferrofluid (SEE PIC BELOW)

nor pyrolytic graphite

nor.............

nor..................(my best invention in the past 6 months that I will reveal in the 3rd edition, hopefully, depending on patent seeking potential)



Nope, You LIKE MOST PEOPLE keep forgetting (dont know really) that each "SIDE" of every magnet (neo or not) has a CENTRIFUGAL and a CENTRIPETAL vortex (convergent) which = CHARGE VECTOR

One puzzle at a time.  I am only considering why the PM created a vortex and the EM did not in Tinman's video.

Are you saying tape applied to the sides of the neo will have no effect with regard to the observed vortex in Tinman's videos?

PW

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #440 on: July 22, 2014, 08:42:33 AM »
"blooming" will be in a very similar direction to the magnetic field.
MileHigh


WHICH magnetic field?
  EACH "pole" has TWO MAGNETIC Vortex movements,  centrifugal and centripetal


Even $5 field viewing film will show you this much simplicity.  ;D


Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #441 on: July 22, 2014, 08:44:15 AM »
I am only considering why the PM created a vortex and the EM did not in Tinman's video


That was explained several pages ago, you either   ;)


A: dont believe it (typical)

B: didnt read it



As for TINMANS VIDEO HERE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-37Ecjd7FQQ&list=UUsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w


since hydrogen is diamagnetic, SAME as pyrolytic graphite
it will always move OPPOSITE the movement of the magnetism OR OPPOSITE the direction you are dragging the diamagnetic material.....such as the pyrolytic graphite in the test tube  .


SO, while he is (of course) getting CCW off the "N POLE" as per the hydrogen, the N POLE centrifugal magnetism is moving CW (and the N pole centripetal is CCW),  and as necessitated and must be the case, the diamagnetic hydrogen moves CCW to the CW centrifugal N pole of the magnet


for proof of this using pyrolytic graphite (super diamagnetic),....see here:::

see example here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6je5P1BOp3A

Offline picowatt

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #442 on: July 22, 2014, 08:48:45 AM »

That was explained several pages ago, you either   ;)


A: dont believe it (typical)

B: didnt read it

I'll ask once again.  Are you saying that taping the sides of the neo will not produce any change in the observed vortex in Tinman's upcoming video?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #443 on: July 22, 2014, 08:54:52 AM »
Brad:

There is a logical follow-up experiment that will just reinforce what PW already stated.  What you want to do is make an electromagnet that allows the current to "bloom" out of the entire metal cylinder.

So as a suggestion, take the metal cylinder and wrap a single spiral of insulated magnet wire around where you leave a decent and noticeable gap between each turn of the spiral.  You could tack down each end of the magnet wire using Krazy Glue or something.  Now when you repeat the experiment, the electric current will be able to "bloom" off of a large portion of the metal cylinder.  Thus you will now have a setup where the current "bloom" off of the regular cylindrical magnet and the current "bloom" off of the metal cylinder of the electromagnet will be very similar.  Therefore you can expect to see a vortex in the electrolyte for the electromagnet and it will be approximately the same as the vortex you get with the magnet.

There you go, that's real science for you.

MileHigh

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #444 on: July 22, 2014, 08:59:50 AM »
I'll ask once again.  Are you saying that taping the sides of the neo will not produce any change in the observed vortex in Tinman's upcoming video?


Let me give you a clue AGAIN- 

"magnets" are CREATED by discharging capacitor banks THRU THE (pre-) "POLES" (at which time they are of course "PRE-magnetized [rather pre-dielectrified]" ceramics),

Also at which time, they are merely the geometric faces MEANT for polarization resultant from changing the magneto-dielectric geometry of the entire piece(s) from the discharge placed thru them, ,of which, a portion is retained.      Ergo, the 'permanent' magnet.


see below:


Offline picowatt

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #445 on: July 22, 2014, 09:00:20 AM »
Brad:

There is a logical follow-up experiment that will just reinforce what PW already stated.  What you want to do is make an electromagnet that allows the current to "bloom" out of the entire metal cylinder.

So as a suggestion, take the metal cylinder and wrap a single spiral of insulated magnet wire around where you leave a decent and noticeable gap between each turn of the spiral.  You could tack down each end of the magnet wire using Krazy Glue or something.  Now when you repeat the experiment, the electric current will be able to "bloom" off of a large portion of the metal cylinder.  Thus you will now have a setup where the current "bloom" off of the regular cylindrical magnet and the current "bloom" off of the metal cylinder of the electromagnet will be very similar.  Therefore you can expect to see a vortex in the electrolyte for the electromagnet and it will be approximately the same as the case for the magnet.

There you go, that's real science for you.

MileHigh

MH,

I was thinking of a steel or iron core of similar size to the neo.  Wind a coil with an ID greater than the OD of the core, such that a .5" to 1" gap exists all around between the core OD and coil ID.  Electrical connection to the core would be similar to the neo via the plate the core rests upon.  This should provide a close analog and the gap should allow enough electrolyte to spin to produce a somewhat similar vortex.

The core length may have to be extended due to the gap between the core and coil.

But were getting a bit ahead here.  Still waiting on Tinman's video...

PW

Offline picowatt

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #446 on: July 22, 2014, 09:05:43 AM »

Let me give you a clue AGAIN- 

"magnets" are CREATED by discharging capacitor banks THRU THE (pre-) "POLES" (at which time they are of course a "PRE-magnetized [rather pre-dielectrified]" ceramics),

they are merely the geometric faces MEANT for polarization.


see below:

Come on.  Show a little commitment and answer the question.

Do you think taping the sides of the neo have any effect on the observed vortex in Tinman's upcoming video?

PW

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #447 on: July 22, 2014, 09:13:01 AM »
Come on.  Show a little commitment and answer the question.
PW


Ohh, you thought I was wiggling?


You asked TINMAN-----It may be informative to repeat your test using a neo wrapped in electrical tape.  Simply wrap the tape around the magnet leaving only the very poles exposed (i.e., insulate the sides from the electrolyte).  See if you still have a bubble vortex under similar conditions to your previous test.


Will he have it?  YES


The inertial plane in ANY magnet is concentrated at the center because it is FORCED THERE, by the magnetism


However it is present at EVERY plane from the top to the bottom of any and all "magnets"



As any dufus will note, bringing 2 NEOS together the inertial plane will shift IMMEDIATELY to the midpoint between the two,      (just like gravity does , .....yes, there is a connection).


Cut a magnet along the "poles" 1000 times, you will have 1000 new inertial planes, its "incommensurate"


Its "non-point specific and incommensurable thru the entire magneto-dielectric object" (i.e. the "magnet")

Offline picowatt

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #448 on: July 22, 2014, 09:21:38 AM »

Let me give you a clue AGAIN- 

"magnets" are CREATED by discharging capacitor banks THRU THE (pre-) "POLES" (at which time they are of course "PRE-magnetized [rather pre-dielectrified]" ceramics),

Also at which time, they are merely the geometric faces MEANT for polarization resultant from changing the magneto-dielectric geometry of the entire piece(s) from the discharge placed thru them, ,of which, a portion is retained.      Ergo, the 'permanent' magnet.


see below:

You do realize the capacitor banks are discharged through coils, creating a large electromagnet (the poles of which are visible in your first picture)?

The poles of the previously weakly magnetized new magnet material are placed in contact with the electromagnet's pole pieces and a cap bank discharged into the coil(s) of the electromagnet to magnetize the new magnet.

Electrical current is not discharged through the core of the new magnet.

PW

(electrical current is typically used prior to sintering to produce the weak magnetic alignment in the raw magnet.  But in the images of the magnetizer, no current flows between its two pole pieces)

Offline TheoriaApophasis

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Re: Ultimate proof of Magnetic Vortex, free book and videos
« Reply #449 on: July 22, 2014, 09:31:13 AM »
You do realize the capacitor banks are discharged through coils, 

Yup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHuWloNGo6c&list=UUh3cY-IW8QsEFmAh-TAWwrw


The poles of the previously weakly magnetized new magnet material are placed in contact with the electromagnet's pole pieces and a cap bank discharged into the coil(s) of the electromagnet to magnetize the new magnet.


Magnets are not "MAGNETIZED", thats magnetic induction from a magnet TO a piece of iron IN THE MAG FIELD, for example.  That is magnetic field INDUCTION.
a "magnet" has an enormous dis-equalibrium between the interatomic magneto-dielectric, also as increased by the NeoFeBoron ceramic structure.


That powerful Neo "magnet" you THINK is a magnet has (under perfect conditions)   3.23606 parts dielectricity to 1 part magnetism


However centripetal radial , inertial dielectricity  IS NOT POLARIZED (obviously) AND HAS NO FERRO-ATTRACTIVE EFFECTS..


HENCE,  the stupid human creatures only "see"  the results of the MAGNETIC portion of that NEO magnet which you (WRONGLY) think is a "magnet"


All that magnetism IN a NEO is powered by the charge potential increase FROM the discharged electromagnetic coils INTO the entire F-ing Neo-Fe-Boron "pre-magnet".



(especially in the hexagonal lattice of the Neo iron boron ceramics)


Electrical current is not discharged through the core of the new magnet.

Who the HELL mentioned the word  "CORE"   ???????   

Current is discharged thru the ENTIRE F-ing magnet, which creates, resultantly this magneto-dielectric structure:

I said the dielectric was CONCENTRATED (as displaced by the magnetism) at the 'equator' of any and all magnets.   Thanks for claiming something I didnt say.



Its been called the "magnetic PINCH EFFECT" since, I recall,   1958


The "pinch" is due to magnetic and dielectric field conjugation in a BINDING SYSTEM (the magnet) and the dis-equilibrium created in the interatomic from the electrification of the magnet.

Does the word "induction" ring a bell to you?   (not magnetic INDUCTION), but the induction used to CREATE a "magnet".