2nd "law" violations => Heat to electric energy conversion => Topic started by: DaS Energy on June 25, 2014, 09:39:29 AM

Title: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 25, 2014, 09:39:29 AM
Attempt to paste over writings will not occur, so all writing remain with attachment.

Computers not my thing!
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: Kator01 on June 26, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Hello,

where did you get these number from : 7.6 KW for 1 kg Water heated up to 100 Deg. Celsius in one second ?

specific heat-capacity of water = 4.182 Joule kg/Kelvin = Watt second kg/Kelvin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity)

Energy stored in 1 kg water at 100 Degiee Celsus = 100 x 4182 Ws = 418.200 Ws , this value divided by 1000 = 418,2 KWs

Regards

Kator 01

Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 27, 2014, 01:33:59 AM
Hello,

where did you get these number from : 7.6 KW for 1 kg Water heated up to 100 Deg. Celsius in one second ?

specific heat-capacity of water = 4.182 Joule kg/Kelvin = Watt second kg/Kelvin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity)

Energy stored in 1 kg water at 100 Degiee Celsus = 100 x 4182 Ws = 418.200 Ws , this value divided by 1000 = 418,2 KWs

Regards

Kator 01

Hello Kator 01.

Wattlow Heating America supply the heating. One litre flowing water +1*C in one second  0.076Kw.

Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: LibreEnergia on June 27, 2014, 11:35:18 AM
Hello Kator 01.

Wattlow Heating America supply the heating. One litre flowing water +1*C in one second  0.076Kw.

No..
approx. 4.2 Joules of energy raises 1 gram of water 1 degree Kelvin.

1 watt  = 1 joule expended per second.

Therefore:

1000 g (1 litre) * 4.2 joule in one second = 4.2 KW

1 litre of water raised 100 K in one second = 420 KW.

Your numbers are out by almost 2 orders of magnitude.

Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 27, 2014, 03:14:31 PM
No..
approx. 4.2 Joules of energy raises 1 gram of water 1 degree Kelvin.

1 watt  = 1 joule expended per second.

Therefore:

1000 g (1 litre) * 4.2 joule in one second = 4.2 KW

1 litre of water raised 100 K in one second = 420 KW.

Your numbers are out by almost 2 orders of magnitude.

Wattlow Heating America, quote. Hoover Dam, quote. CO2 gas Industry, quote.

Refrigeration by similar means, Coles Supermarket.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: Kator01 on June 27, 2014, 05:30:14 PM

Quote
Wattlow Heating America, quote. Hoover Dam, quote. CO2 gas Industry, quote.

Refrigeration by similar means, Coles Supermarket.

...educate youself and do not quote misunderstood pieces of writings of these above companies.

You are stealing our time..

Kator01
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: LibreEnergia on June 27, 2014, 11:05:35 PM
Wattlow Heating America, quote. Hoover Dam, quote. CO2 gas Industry, quote.

Refrigeration by similar means, Coles Supermarket.

So what you are attempting to tell us is that every physics and chemistry text book in the entire world is wrong?

I remember measuring this value in a high school  experiment. You can do it too. Take an electric kettle of known output (typically they are around 2000 watts) and measure how long it takes to boil a litre.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: TinselKoala on June 28, 2014, 12:13:55 AM
Watlow is a big company with lots of products and lots of information on the internet. It should be easy for DaS to provide a link to this miracle water heater they are carefully hiding amongst all their sales info.

Using the tables for heating water in this
https://www.watlow.com/reference/files/wattage.pdf (https://www.watlow.com/reference/files/wattage.pdf)
and converting to metric/SI, we have 1.9 kW to heat 5 gallons of water by 140 degrees F (from room temperature to boiling, so less than 100 C rise).
So that's 19 liters of water raised by about 75  degrees C in one hour, this takes 1.9 kW applied constantly for the hour.
So if you did it in one second instead, this would need 1.9  kW x 60 secs/min x 60 mins/hour = 6840 kW for one second. But that's for 19 liters. One liter would thus require 6840/19 = 360 kW applied for that one second. But that's just for 75 degrees rise. So for 100 degrees rise we have 360 x 100/75 = 480 kW for one second.

This is in very good agreement with the calculation from the definition of the calorie (4.19 Joules per gram per degree C.)

ETA: I see they even give a nice equation for heating flowing water:

kW = Liters/min. x Temperature Rise (°C) x 0.076

So using that we find that raising one liter per minute by 100 degrees C takes 7.6 kW. One liter per second will thus take 7.6 kW x 60 secs/min = 456 kW.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 28, 2014, 12:54:13 AM
So what you are attempting to tell us is that every physics and chemistry text book in the entire world is wrong?

I remember measuring this value in a high school  experiment. You can do it too. Take an electric kettle of known output (typically they are around 2000 watts) and measure how long it takes to boil a litre.

Wattlow Heating America, quote. Hoover Dam, quote. CO2 gas Industry, quote.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 28, 2014, 01:45:08 AM
Wattlow Heating America, quote. Hoover Dam, quote. CO2 gas Industry, quote.

Hello Tinsel Koala,

Wattlow Heating do provide Kw heating for different fluids. The 0.076 1*C a litre of flowing water in one second is a quote, using a tank heater.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: TinselKoala on June 28, 2014, 02:07:28 AM
Hello Tinsel Koala,

Wattlow Heating do provide Kw heating for different fluids. The 0.076 1*C a litre of flowing water in one second is a quote, using a tank heater.

I have provided the links to the original Watlow (there is only one "L" in the company name) documents and I have worked the math and shown my workings, that refute your claim, and I have even shown where it likely came from, either a misreading or a failure to apply units correctly.

You have provided no support whatsoever for your mistaken claim.

Quote
Using the tables for heating water in this
https://www.watlow.com/reference/files/wattage.pdf (https://www.watlow.com/reference/files/wattage.pdf)
and converting to metric/SI, we have 1.9 kW to heat 5 gallons of water by 140 degrees F (from room temperature to boiling, so less than 100 C rise).
So that's 19 liters of water raised by about 75  degrees C in one hour, this takes 1.9 kW applied constantly for the hour.
So if you did it in one second instead, this would need 1.9  kW x 60 secs/min x 60 mins/hour = 6840 kW for one second. But that's for 19 liters. One liter would thus require 6840/19 = 360 kW applied for that one second. But that's just for 75 degrees rise. So for 100 degrees rise we have 360 x 100/75 = 480 kW for one second.

This is in very good agreement with the calculation from the definition of the calorie (4.19 Joules per gram per degree C.)

ETA: I see they even give a nice equation for heating flowing water:

kW = Liters/min. x Temperature Rise (°C) x 0.076

So using that we find that raising one liter per minute by 100 degrees C takes 7.6 kW. One liter per second will thus take 7.6 kW x 60 secs/min = 456 kW.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 28, 2014, 05:14:25 AM

Hello Tinsel Koala.

1 litre flowing water rises 1*C in one second using electric heater 0.076Kw.

DaS Energy is not into child games. We not here to build yours for you. We don't even care if you build one or not. We have made the engineering's available for those who wish to proceed.

Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 28, 2014, 05:49:24 AM
Hello Tinsel Koala.

1 litre flowing water rises 1*C in one second using electric heater 0.076Kw.

DaS Energy is not into child games. We not here to build yours for you. We don't even care if you build one or not. We have made the engineering's available for those who wish to proceed.

What a bunch of crap!  Are you running a scam here?

Bill
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: LibreEnergia on June 28, 2014, 05:57:20 AM
Hello Tinsel Koala.

1 litre flowing water rises 1*C in one second using electric heater 0.076Kw.

DaS Energy is not into child games. We not here to build yours for you. We don't even care if you build one or not. We have made the engineering's available for those who wish to proceed.

1 litre rises 1 degree in one minute...  0.076 kw , If I was you I'd take take a minute (or two) to check your data before making baseless assumtions about overunity.
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: TinselKoala on June 28, 2014, 06:34:47 AM
Hello Tinsel Koala.

1 litre flowing water rises 1*C in one second using electric heater 0.076Kw.

DaS Energy is not into child games. We not here to build yours for you. We don't even care if you build one or not. We have made the engineering's available for those who wish to proceed.

There is something seriously wrong with you.

Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on June 28, 2014, 06:43:30 AM
Thank you, Appreciated.

You be correct. 0.076 Kw wattage draw to heat one litre flowing water 1*C in one minute, not one second.

File now corrected. ( 0.076Kw +1*C in one minute)

Heating one litre water by 1*C in one second. +80*C requires 360 Kw.
Should fluid C02 convert same as water the return is 720Kw.

CO2 heating is taken from the zero mark. Not its return temperature of +30*C.
(+50*C heat rise not +80* requires 225Kw heating input, output 720Kw.)
Title: Re: DaS Energy Overunity ?
Post by: DaS Energy on January 05, 2015, 12:51:01 PM
Pulse action design requires a compensator or two valves to supply constant flow.

The DaS Valve provides gas pressure to water flowing to a hydro turbine, so delivering 93% Kaplan hydro efficiency as opposed to 30% efficient gas turbine.

Calculation of one litre 9 bar per second generating 720 watts is based on the 82% efficient Pelton turbine. 9,000 bar 720 kW.

CO2 heated +30*C to +100*C produces 10,000 bar pressure.

0.076 kW heats one litre water +1*C in one minute. 4.56kW in one second. +30*C to +100*C in one second 319.2 kW.