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Author Topic: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy  (Read 34709 times)

Offline thx1138

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 02:14:18 AM »
so I'm reading Tesla's book called the problem with increasing human energy and it says a couple paragraphs into the book that his inexhaustible energy for the world the unlimited energy was the burning of nitrogen check it if you don't believe me but I didn't really expect that definitely have to keep investigating this research
To understand Tesla's work there's two things that are critical.
 
1. You have to understand the times he lived in and what was unknown at that time, which was a lot of what we take for granted today. In the mid to late 1800's there were no cars or highways for them or airplanes or satellites. Short transporation was by foot or horse. Longer transportation was by steam engine rail over land and steam powered ships over water. The oil industry didn't exist so there were no plastics and coal was the chief mobile fuel source. Telegraphs were in use but most communication was by postal service. Astronomers didn't have telescopes powerful enough to distinguish the difference between stars and galaxies so galaxies were unknown. Geophysics didn't exist and the structure of the planet was largely unknow. The theory of an inner and outer core to the earth wasn't developed until the 1930's. Tectonic plate theory wasn't widely accepted until the 1960's.  That's just a few examples.
 
2. Tesla was so prolific that you need to focus on one single line of inquiry and read his articles, presentaions, and patents in a sequential manner to see how his ideas developed while looking for the parts that apply to that one line of inquiry. Don't get sidetracked by what others say about what Tesla said. Get it only directly from the source. There is so much misinterpretation of what he actually said on the internet that any real knowledge gets lost like a needle in a haystack. Here's an example: a lot of people thought Tesla's Wardenclyffe project was going to transmit power through the air from the top of the tower. If you read the patents you'll see he initially planned to transmit power between tethered balloons at 30,000 feet but no one ever mentions that. That example also plays into item 1 - that's the altitude of the 250+ MPH winds known as the jet stream so it probably would have failed but the jet stream was unknown at the time. He never attempted it because he discovered he could transmit through the ground.
 
Good luck with your studies. I hope the above helps. I've been at it 3 years now and have probably missed more than I've really absorbed.

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 02:14:18 AM »

Offline forest

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 07:15:20 AM »
Tesla worked simultaneously in two directions. Only one can be easily known from his lectures, articles. The second one we knew only from rarely spotted comments, usually cut in the middle by saying something like " I'm not able yet to go into details"

Offline Farmhand

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 10:50:17 AM »
I've never read Tesla mention ZPR or ZPE, I've read him mention cosmic rays and charged particles ect, but if there is written by Tesla about ZPR or even ZPE I would like to see it in context.

I think a lot of people also believe that Tesla was planning to provide OU energy for everyone for free, and yet I am fairly sure I read that he was installing steam powered generators at Wardencliff.

Then there is the misconception of Tesla's resonant coils being OU based on oscillating power figures compared to input power rather than output power compared to input power.

Some people seem to think Tesla hid OU everywhere when in fact many of his inventions were very conventional as the term applies now. Car alternators with the opposing saw tooth poles are based loosely I think on one of his HF alternator patents I think.

..

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 10:50:17 AM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2014, 01:59:46 PM »
@Farmland:

Full Ack!!!

As Tinsel already  stated, I think much of the misunderstanding from people reading Tesla is based on poor electrical knowledge coupled with an expecting biased view.
Like that people interprete complete wrong things into Tesla's words. E.g. Lyne is a famous example. If you take the parts, he cites about Tesla mentionedn the Anti-Grav or OU, you clearly recognize that Tesla meant something completely different, and only someone without knowledge in (HV) electronics can interpret it that way.
Like Lyne with his generator many people seem to think, that if you accumulate energy in an oscillator, that you get OU.
"Look, there's now more energy in the oscillator, than the input energy". But they do not seem to realize that this is just accumulated energy, and that you cannot get continuous output energy with such a high power. Many of the QEG supporters also seem to make this error.


Just ask yourself:
Tesla proposed to transmit energy from all around the globe to where it shall be used, with his magnifying transmitter.  But he himself stated, that now such transmitting towers can be built directly at the power plants. Like that power plants, like water, geothermic, wind, ... can be built everywhere on the world, where they are economic and you just have to place such a tower beside it to transmit it globally.

Why should he propose transmitting energy with his tower from conventional power plants, if he had any OU device???
Tesla surely thought and speculated, that maybe it is possible to make an OU device.
But actually Tesla never said, he had made an OU device.
Well except for one exception. And as from his description of this invention it is clear, what it was: A heat pump. And yes, a heat pump is OU. But not the type of OU we want.
You must be aware, that at Tesla's time it wasn't yet known, that some types of energy are less "in quality" than others. That's the reason, why you cannot make a self looping device from a heat pump. As any conversion back to mechanical energy from the heat pump OU heat difference has a reciprocal efficiency that equals or is less than the heat pump efficiency for generating the temp difference.

Just my 2 cents...


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Offline thx1138

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
I've never read Tesla mention ZPR or ZPE, I've read him mention cosmic rays and charged particles ect, but if there is written by Tesla about ZPR or even ZPE I would like to see it in context.
IMO, that's people misinterpreting what Tesla said because they don't consider what was not known in Tesla's day.  From [font=]Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency, Lecture before the Institution of Electrical Engineers, London, 02/03/1892 [/font][font=]“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by a power obtainable at any point of the universe.” [/font]and “Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic? If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic – and this we know it is, for certain – then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.”
 
I suppose that could be interpreted a zpe by those who don't understand history at the point when he made those statements. Today, however, we have systems using that power in the satellites circling the globe and the space probes that go to other planets like Saturn and beyond to the edge of the solar system.
 
Quote
I think a lot of people also believe that Tesla was planning to provide OU energy for everyone for free, and yet I am fairly sure I read that he was installing steam powered generators at Wardencliff.
Quite true and there are photographs. http://www.teslascience.org/archive/descriptions/WP015.htm
 
And he never planned on supplying electricity to anyone for free. The fact that it could be transmitted to the most remote parts of the planet was sufficient to change the world. He never said anything that I am aware of that it would be free. In fact he said, "My belief is firm in a law of compensation. The true rewards are ever in proportion to the labour and sacrifices made." - from his autobiography.
 
He also had patents to proivide individualization that I think were frequency based that would require the receiver to be tuned to the transmitting frequency: US 723,188, US 725,605, and British 14,579. So the power producer could terminate the transmission on a given frequency if the customer didn't pay his bills without affecting other customers. Tesla was always talking about transmitting power on industrial scales so it isn't like every Tom, Dick, and Harry would have a receiver. Corporations or cities with finances to build a Wardenclyffe style installation would have receivers and could distribute power via wires to their customers.
 
 
Quote
Some people seem to think Tesla hid OU everywhere when in fact many of his inventions were very conventional as the term applies now.
I've yet to see an invention of his that can't be explained in today's conventional terms. What may have been a mystery back then is very well understood today. X-rays is a good example. Again it is necessary to understand what was not known back then. The atom was still considered to be the indivisible minimum of matter. So how could particles be transmitted through a Crooke's tube without breaking the tube?
 
I think where people get confused is they try to tie "radiant energy" and "wireless transmission" of power together. They are very loosely linked in that they are both "wireless". Radiant energy explains how the sun and stars transmit power to the earth's atmosphere by "rays", i.e. solar or cosmic rays, the rays being similar to Tesla's one wire transmission without a ground return, which he even states in a later interview.
 
His "wireless transmission" was to be accomplished regardless of the source so the plant could be located where the fuel was located, i.e. wind, hydro, coal, etc., and the power could be consumed where needed without  the cost of constructing and maintaining transmission lines. He states this in the patent US Patent 1,119,732 - System of Transmission of Electrical Energy, "In the accompanying drawing a general arrangement of appartus is diagaramatically illustrated such as I contemplate employing in the carrying out of my invention on an industrial scale - as, for instance, for lighting distant cities or districts from places where cheap power is obtainable."

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2014, 06:17:51 PM »
Quite true ! However... the same way you can state that moon has only one side...visible one  ;D

Offline thx1138

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2014, 06:57:17 PM »
If the moon is more or less a sphere, how many "sides" does it have? But I get your point.
 
The point above, however, was that Tesla never, as far as I know, mentioned anything like zpe. But even that's like saying he never mentioned "longitudinal waves". He never used that terminology but he did mention somewhere (it escapes me at the moment) that electrical impulses could be looked at like sound waves which are, indeed, longitudinal waves.

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2014, 06:57:17 PM »
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Offline tturner

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2014, 08:40:51 PM »
 tesla talks about " its will come that man will attach his machinery to wheel work of nature"  and  " the use of coal, gas, fuels is not nessisary and energy is available in unlimited quantities" what is he talking about exactly

Offline forest

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2014, 09:00:53 PM »
Just look for Tesla letter to his friend about Figuera generator

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2014, 09:00:53 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 09:03:47 PM »
tesla talks about " its will come that man will attach his machinery to wheel work of nature"  and  " the use of coal, gas, fuels is not nessisary and energy is available in unlimited quantities" what is he talking about exactly


ambient medium , check again - he is very precise about it when he describes the methods of tapping sun energy during centuriesnothing complicated, just try to open your eyes to analogies

Offline Farmhand

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2014, 09:24:37 PM »
Tesla intended to use the earth as a tank to store energy, and like a tank after running the Wardencliff transmitter for some time the activity in the tank (Earth) would build until the point where only the losses need to be input to maintain the activity (oscillations) due to the tank impedance increasing, just like a coil and capacitor tank. now if we tap the tank the impedance to the input will decrease and the input power will increase to meet the load as it should and maintain the activity level, the current doesn't flow in wiggly waves it flows in surge type waves following the path of least resistance, (longitudinal). it does have a wiggly electromagnetic wave associated with it though. 

If we take a coil and capacitor tank and operate it at resonance at 1 000 000 Hz it will radiate a lot of energy, but if we take a cap and coil tank and operate it at resonance at 1000 Hz that will radiate much less, the activity will be less wasteful as far as radiated electromagnetic energy goes.

Tesla's Wardencliff and Colorado transmitters (were to the Earth as the transmitter power input circuit was to his transmitter).

Source
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

Below he describes a 10000 HP plant ( 7.5 Megawatt plant) with idle losses of 1% which is 7 500 000 Watts divided by 100 equals ....wait for it ...... 75 Kilowatts of idle input with no power taken out at any other place, running losses not even considering the heating losses due to friction in the generators or the conductors so real losses would be even higher.

Quote
Now, there is a vast difference between these two, the electromagnetic and current energies.  That energy which goes out in the form of rays, is, as I have indicated here [on the diagram of Fig. 82], unrecoverable, hopelessly lost.  You can operate a little instrument by catching a billionth part of it but, except this, all goes out into space never to return.  This other energy, however, of the current in the globe, is stored and completely recoverable.  Theoretically, it does not take much effort to maintain the earth in electrical vibration.  I have, in fact, worked out a plant of 10,000 horse-power which would operate with no bigger loss than 1 percent of the whole power applied; that is, with the exception of the frictional energy that is consumed in the rotation of the engines and the heating of the conductors, I would not lose more than 1 percent.  In other words, if I have a 10,000 horsepower plant, it would take only 100 horsepower to keep the earth vibrating so long as there is no energy taken out at any other place.


Below Tesla is describing in my opinion his plan for power transmission at Wardencliff and he is saying that his transmitter will run idle like a power transformer runs idle at low power when no output is drawn. To achieve this close coupling from primary to secondary I think is needed and described in the last transmission patent. No loose coupling for efficient power transmission transformers.

Quote
But, if I have no pump there to receive these oscillations, if there is nowhere a place where this elastic energy is transferred into frictional energy (we always use in our devices frictional energy -- everything is lost through friction), then there is no loss, and if I have a plant of 1,000 horsepower and I operate it to full capacity, that plant does not take power, it runs idle, exactly as the plant at Niagara.  If I do not put any motors or any lamps on the circuit, the plant runs idle.  There is a 5,000 horsepower turbine going, but no power is supplied to the turbine except such power as is necessary to overcome the frictional losses.

Now the vast difference between the scheme of radio engineers and my scheme is this.  If you generate electromagnetic waves with a plant of 1,000 horsepower, you are using 1,000 horsepower right along -- whether there is any receiving being done or not.  You have to supply this 1,000 horsepower, exactly as you have to supply coal to keep your stove going, or else no heat goes out.  That is the vast difference.  In my case, I conserve the energy; in the other case, the energy is all lost.

..

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2014, 09:24:37 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2014, 09:50:52 PM »
It's great to see someone actually citing Tesla himself instead of all the woosters who use his name and patents in vain.

Except that the long distance power transmission system isn't analogous to an electromagnetic transformer, I don't think. Long distance transmission is possible, you don't have to be close-coupled. Adding my own "woo" to the interpretation of Tesla's ideas, and putting it into modern language, I think Tesla saw the Earth as a big LC tank with very high Q. He intended to provide the necessary inductance by the Colorado Springs and later the Wardenclyffe installations. (Check out the subterranean features of these towers, the forgotten Earth connections....). And the Earth-ground-atmosphere-ionosphere system provides the capacitance. This capacitance is distributed worldwide. The tank is "sloshed" by stimulating the inductors strongly at the transmitting point and the system responds by ringing, and another tuned inductor at a distant location can ring in resonance, since it is using the same capacitance. The capacitance fluctuates like the air pressure in a sealed vessel that is struck like a bell. Hence the idea of "longitudinal scalar waves" or the analogy to sound waves which are compressions and rarefactions, tiny local variations in air pressure.

/woo

 8)

Offline thx1138

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2014, 10:14:32 PM »
tesla talks about " its will come that man will attach his machinery to wheel work of nature"  and  " the use of coal, gas, fuels is not nessisary and energy is available in unlimited quantities" what is he talking about exactly
Today's version is the photovoltaic or "solar" panel. His radiant energy collector was different but the same. He was talking about collecting the energy of the charged particles that constantly bombard the planet from both our sun and all stars in the universe. That goes back to what I said in an earlier post about the astronomers of that day not being able to distinguish between stars and galaxies - they were all just stars. The van Allen radiation belts created by the earth's magnetic field were also unknown and not proven to exist until the late 1950's or early 1960's when the Vanguard satellites were launched. So actually not many cosmic rays get through and that's a good thing or we'd all be toast.
 
One of the things that is not discussed by Tesla is the altitude of the "elevated, insulated plate" other than he says, the higher it is elevated the more power can be obtained. But consider that his power transmission system patent states that the power would be transmitted between tethered balloons at 30,000 feet which he considered easily accessible. Well, at least compared to the 79,200 feet he originally considered. So was he planning on the "insulated, elevated plate" being maintained at a similar altitude with a tethered ballon? We don't know. As far as I know it was never attempted which is probably just as well. That's the altitude of the jet stream's +250 MPH winds which were unknown at the time by all but one man in Japan who was studying them.
 
Here's the earliest quote I found regarding "radiant energy": “…streams resembling the cathodic must be emitted by the sun and probably also by other sources of radiant energy, such as an arc light or Bunsen burner.”  - “Tesla’s latest Roentgen Ray Investigations”, Electrical Review, New York  No.17, 05/22/1896
 
That's all Tesla meant by "radiant energy" - energy that is radiated, by whatever source. What's interesting is what he didn't include in that list. Lightning also emits radiant energy and besides light and heat it emits charged particles. I saw the phrase used by another scientist of that day but can't remember exactly who it was now. I think it was either Heaviside or Helmholtz. It might have even been Crookes. The point is that it's a generic term like "radiant heat" and not some specific form of electrical energy.
 
But you'll notice in his patent that there is also a drawing of a man made device shooting "rays" at the elevated insulated plate. That's an X-ray tube, known at the time as a Roenken or Lenard tube, that emit "...rays resembling the cathodic...".
 
And radioactive materials do the same thing with alpha, beta, and gamma particles. Tesla believed that radioactive materials would not be radioactive if they could be shielded from cosmic rays. Which leads to nuclear batteries which are in use today, mostly in space probes where there is zero chance to maintain them and they need long life spans. They power the Voyager space probes that have now reached the edge of the solar system. By they time they run out they will have run for nearly 40 years with zero down time and zero maintenance.
http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~blanchar/res/BlanchardKorea.pdf
Look at page 37. That is essentially Tesla's radiant energy colletor. It has a source (S) (Sr-90) that emits particles through an insulation (D) (polystyrene dielectric) to a metal plate collector (C).
 
And keep in mind that radioactive materials were not controlled substances before it was proven they could be weaponized by the atomic explosions over Japan in 1945, two years after Tesla died in 1943.

Offline Shanti

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2014, 10:30:31 PM »
@Tinsel:
I completely agree. And the picture with the world as a ballon with pressurized air is actually from Tesla himself, when he explained, how the tower should have worked.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1660/telsawireless.png

(It's from the article: Famous Scientific Illusions, Electrical Experimenter Feb 1919)

Also his idea about longitudinal waves, as you said is obvious, and as he meant it also correct. An electric conductor can have such waves.
He just was IMHO wrong about his interpretation of the Hertz-Waves...

And Tesla himself stated how important the earthing of the tower was to get a good grip to the earth. He went down about 30m 'til groundwater and from there he went out on 4 sides and drove 12 steel shafts almost a further 100m down into the earth. Although he stated in the later court trial it were 16, later sonic measurements only showed 4*3=12 of them. Still impressive. He made a special device to drive these steel shafts down...

IMHO it is actually quite forward how the tower(s) should have worked, as Tesla explained it several times in several different articles.
(e.g. this article: http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm
 a nice comparison picture can also be seen in this article: http://teslacollection.com/tesla_articles/1912/modern_electrics/nikola_tesla/disturbing_influence_of_solar_radiation_on_wireless_transmission_of_energy
and obviously also in a subchapter of the famous "THE PROBLEM OF INCREASING HUMAN ENERGY")

(there are actually a lot of articles adescribing his system, this was just a small sample. But I guess you all know them anyway...)

Quote
To achieve this close coupling from primary to secondary I think is needed and described in the last transmission patent. No loose coupling for efficient power transmission transformers.

That's IMHO actually one of the main points for the reason of a magnifying transmitter.

IMHO the history is quite obvious (but that's just my 2 cents):

To have the most impression on the earth capacitor you need to oscillate a lot of energy. So what you want is a resonator with a very high q factor.

But Tesla had to recognize that in a normal "Tesla coil" the lose coupling between the secondary and the primary was still limiting the q factor, for the primary circuit still damped the secondary circuit.
 Additionally the lose coupling is a big problem if you want to couple a lot of energy continuously, what was intended for a running transmission system.

Both these problems are solved with a magnifier system:
* Very high q factor.
  Simply because the extra coil as main resonator hasn't any inductive coupling to another circuit, so no energy get's coupled again out of the resonator.
 * Very high Power-Coupling
  Simply because you have a very high coupling between the primary and the secondary. Like that in each period a lot of energy can be coupled into the resonator. The important thing here is, that the secondary impedance is very small compared to the extra coil.

That's why he used as primary/secondary a coil with big diameter and only very few turns secondary.

Sure, there is some coupling out through the secondary, as the secondary is obviously also part of the resonator. But this is why it is important that the impedance of the secondary is very small, for then only a marginal part again get's coupled out of the resonator into the primary.

The funny thing is, almost all the magnifier constructions I saw on the net are IMHO not magnifier constructions. There they often feed the output of one Tesla coil to another Tesla coil. But this again just limits the power and is not the idea of this construction.

But I have my serious doubts if this transmission system would really have worked, as IMHO the losses would probably have been quite big...
But that's surely just a guess...

Edit:
BTW: It's already offtopic, but when I'm at it...

Often it is said that the evil J.P. Morgan crashed Teslas plan of a FE tower as he egoistically wanted to continue selling his power.

Nothing could be more far away from the truth.

J.P. Morgen wanted a way to communicate with his transport ships on sea and his divisions in other countries. This would have been a huge economic advantage for him.
And Tesla said, he could do that with his tower.
So Morgan gave him the money to make the tower.
But then after some time Marconi made his first transatlantic transmission. Then Morgen wanted to have a serious talk with Tesla, why he made such a large and expensive tower, while Marconi does the same just with a simple and cheap setup.

Tesla then had to admit, that his tower wasn't just for communication with e.g. the ships but at the same time also for power transmission, e.g. to power these ships.
The obvious immediate question which came back from Morgan: If my ships can receive this power, then what prevents others to receive that power?
There Tesla then had to admit, that this would have been possible and unpreventable. But as Morgan would have had to pay for the power, which has to be fed into the tower, and as you cannot put a meter on the receivers as anyone on the world can put up a receiver, the project was surely a complete "no go" for Morgan anymore, and has been abandoned.

So no conspiracy here, just true logic. Also no free energy here. Well it's the same kind of free energy as if you tap your neighbours' power line. Just someone else has to pay for it...(but it's free energy for you ;D )

Offline tturner

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Re: tesla zpr generator cosmic energy
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2014, 02:06:45 AM »
well i think the world need free energy so im searching for free energy i thought had found it way before with his pierce arrow but ive searched for that so much with no luck. im in an emergency state for something that works or can be built/manufactured and be practicle. im 22 and this has taken over my mind im obsessed but cant really understand whats being talked about exactly on this subjects so im looking to educate myself or go back to school i was hinking chemistry but idk. sos help

 

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